Starting Over with a New Identity

Starting Over with a New Identity

by

Jimmy Humphrey

Imagine for a moment that you were witness to a ghastly crime, where the main villain was a shady Chicago businessman, who just so happened to have an Italian last name, dressed in nice suits, and was known for the large gold chains that draped around his neck. In order to ensure you are alive and able to testify in court, the police temporarily enroll you in the witness protection program. In it, you are assigned a new identification. You receive a new name, a new job, and are suddenly moved into a remote rural town. You are no longer who you once were, and if you wish to remain alive, you will distance yourself as far as possible from your old life.

Our identity is a very important thing. When you meet a stranger for the first time, we will often engage in a lot of small talk that centers around basic biographical information. We’ll size each other up, talking about where we were born, where we went to school, where we work, family life, and the like. We ultimately look to share information about who we are and what we are about. As the conversation continues, we’ll look for some sort of common points of identification that gives us the excuse to continue lingering with one another in conversation, or should we fail to do that, we’ll look to excuse ourselves from any further conversation.

Our identity is a very curious thing. Not only is our identity an expression of who we are, but in many ways, our identity molds us into the people we become. Artists become artsy. Kings become regal. Football players become jocks. And Christians, Lord willing, become more like Christ.

The apostle Paul said:

“I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me.” (Galatians 2:20; NASB)

The more I live, the more I am convinced that understanding who I am in Christ is one of the most important things I can ever hope to grasp. My identity is bound up in Christ and who He is in me. And the more I understand this truth, and the more I live my life in light of whom I am in Christ, the more I find myself flourishing. But in those areas of my life that I fail to identify with Christ first and foremost, I find a worldly carnality that chokes me to death.

When I think of myself, I should not think of myself as a young, white, middle-class, college-educated male, who works for one of the largest banks in the world. I should not think about the name on my jeans, the car that I drive, or the size of my bank account. I should not think about myself as a politically conservative minded American, who cheers wildly for the local professional sports teams. I should not think about my height, my weight, or any other such thing.

For when I bind up my identity in these things, I limit myself, and become a slave to these labels. But when my mind is on who I am in Christ, and my identification with Him, I have access to all things, and am truly free. I become whoever Jesus Christ says I am in Him.

I am saved. I am righteous. I am holy. I am forgiven. I am a child of God. I am worthy. I am a citizen of a heavenly kingdom. I am a part of the family of God. God loves me, and is working all things for my good. I have been given everything pertaining to life and godliness. I lack for no good thing. My cup runneth over. I am the head and not the tail. I am blessed in my going in and in my going out. I have a purpose. I am making a difference. I am altogether awesome and wonderful. I can do all things. I am more than a conqueror. I am risen with Christ. I am seated in heavenly places. I am a new creation.

But instead of identifying with many of these Scriptural truths, and understanding how they apply to us, many of us find our identity in the million other things this world wants us to embrace. We become people who can’t think of ourselves apart from our nationality, ethnicity, gender, height, weight, age, social status, job title, sexual orientation, or political party. And as is often the case, one of these particular identities ends up having a stronger hold on us than the rest.

Please don’t get me wrong, I am not saying there is anything wrong in and of itself with identifying yourself with a particular nationality, ethnicity, etc. As people, and even as Christians, we will certainly have an identity that touches upon all of these things. God in His wisdom is not looking to dissolve us of all the unique distinctions we embrace. But with that said, God does not want us to be grounded in an identity that isn’t centered in who we are in Him.

If we were to survey the world around us, we would learn that there is a great danger in being caught up in our own identity apart from Christ. Six million Jews know how terrible it is when people become intoxicated by their German nationality. The caste system has caused millions of people in India to starve. Homosexuals become unable to escape their sinful lifestyles because they can’t think of themselves as somebody other than a homosexual. Managers violently handle their employees in the workplace. Over ninety-percent of blacks voted for president Obama in the last election. And many Southerners still fly the flag of a nation that hasn’t existed in 150 years.

As you can see, ultimately at the end of the day, you and I need to be saved from all this stuff. But you and I will never learn to be saved from all this stuff until we are saved from ourselves. Germans need to be saved from being German. Blacks need to be saved from being black. Baptists need to be saved from being Baptist. Cool young pastors need to be saved from their coolness. Bono needs to be saved from Bono. I need to be saved from being me.

We are ultimately in need of a new identity. An identity that is bound up with who Jesus Christ is, and who He has made us to be. In Jesus Christ, I am no longer a middle-class white boy who went to college and works for a bank. Like somebody enrolled in the witness protection program, I have seen something amazing, and I have been given a new identity. In a moment, everything about me was changed. It is no longer I who live, but Christ in me.

I have been given a new name, a new residency, and a new profession. My life is no longer what it once was. With my new identity, I am liberated from the troubles of my old life. My past with all its complications have nothing to do with what I have become. I am free from all prior entanglements and loyalties. For the identity I now have has set me free. With the past now behind me, I have nothing but the future to look forward to. I have been given a new life. A life that is truly hid in Christ.

And that new identity and that new life are available for all who would believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ. It is available for all who would be willing to lay aside their old lives, and put on a new one. It’s available for all who would be buried with Christ and raised again in the newness of life. It’s available for all who are willing to think differently, live differently, and act differently. It’s available to all who would lay upon an altar everything that is their life. This new identity is available for everyone who would dare to be recognized as the citizen of another kingdom. It is for everyone who would dare to call another group of people their family. It is for everyone who would say they are part of a new race of men. It is available for all who are ultimately willing to part ways with the first creation, so as to make way for God’s new creation.

http://www.iamadisciple.com/articles/new_identity.php

King Jimmy,

You have obviously put a lot of thought into this article. You cover a wide range of points about identity. It's so true what you say - about how our identities restrain us. They are like an invisible boundary that say to us: "Do not trespass beyond this point". We are not particularly conscious of their power on us.

I deal with these identity "restraints" everyday in my teaching - especially adults. They believe they cannot go on to higher levels of achievement. It's just not them. But it's simply that that they never did it before.

I think it's that way in our new Kingdom identity too. We can be restrained by an overly limiting sense of identity as redeemed people - like Peter when the sheet of animals came down in a vision from heaven.

Diane

I was always amazed in school how many people defeated themselves in their own minds when it came to test taking. Even in Bible college people who knew they could do all things in Christ would buckle in fear of the dreaded test.

i think we must be wary of lying to our selfs and saying somthing that we are not also ,, think we need to be humbled in the process of identafication ,,,,,if we are not filled with the spirit ,we should not lie and aferm that we are ,,if we are not mature we should not identafie our selfs as such ,,,we need to be carfull and tell the truth in this we cant talk our way into mature holiness ,,
...

but the princale is a valid one for sure

I am a citizen of a heavenly kingdom

KingJimmy: How about writing a book called “Identity Crisis in American Christianity”?

I think that should encompass about every “sin” problem. And of course the scripture basis would be the return of the Prodigal Son. He returned, hoping against hope that at least he could be accepted as a meager slave. That’s not much of a vision. But then low and behold his Father bestows him with all the symbols of a royal identity, sonship in the Father’s family: robe, ring, sandals, celebration….

A question: What was the older brother’s “identity” problem?

Diane

How about writing a book called “Identity Crisis in American Christianity”?

I think the crisis is more widespread to humanity then just the Southern half of the North American Continent;) It's ironic that we often attempt to resolve the identity crisis of another by giving them an identity of our own choosing..."American Christianity."

A challenge we have as human beings is that we live inside the mental models in our heads. None of us actually interact with the "real world", but with abstractions of the real world modeled in our brains.

And these models are always metaphors instead of "actuality", that in turn become narratives instead of "facts", populated with personas instead of the creatures we really are. It doesn't matter who you are, without metaphors, narratives, and personas, you wouldn't be able to organize the immense data contained in your noodle. (metaphor;) It's simply how our minds categorize and retrieve information.

I believe it is impossible to think outside of these models in our head. It would be like asking a computer to think outside of it's Firmware and Operating System. Our brain, in this present mortal frame, is a modeling organ. Everyone's task is to discover which model God would have us believe in, and work hard to make room in our thinking accordingly. I believe this is a central provision of scripture. While we may read other books, the bible is the only book that reads us. I believe committing to the right biblical mental models is the renewing of our minds.

(On another topic, I also believe this explains the limitations of mysticism...if our meditation is based on heuristics instead of revelation, we will never get anywhere in the renewing of our minds.)

Now the problem we as Christians face, is that even within the framework of Scripture, we still manage to construct a hundred different conflicting narratives of who we might be. For instance, we could be the American Christian or the true Christian. We could be living in Babylon or in Rome or we could be of Jerusalem. We could be the modern pharisee or the pious saint. We relate to ourselves and one another with just such narratives. We say "calm down" to create a narrative that someone is being irrational or we might say "You have heard from God" to create a narrative that someone is trustworthy. These are the type of narratives we toss at one another with out so much a thought. And we see how central these narratives are to the way we think by the emotional reactions they cause. Someone will offer a single narrative about ourselves and it either makes our day or ruins it!

So with so many scripts for us to pick from...it's no wonder we have a hard time knowing who we really are. :)

Blessings,

MC

I agree with you JIG...what we read or expose ourselves to is very influential to our internal frameworks and identity.

On that note, I personally feel the modern Christian bookstore is rife with identity confusion.

I actually find it much more clarifying to read something the polar opposite to my beliefs, then the various modern evangelical attempts at cultural synthesis.

We can imagine the problems we set up for people's identities when, in the name of "cultural relevancy" we try to live half way between worldly frameworks and biblical frameworks...some netherworld where identity remains filled with contradiction.

Imagine if we affirmed the following narratives rather then the "practical" frameworks of modern evangelical cultural synthesis.

The Narrative of Being Made Alive in Christ

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful naturea and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

How often do we take away these remarkable narratives from one another and offer our own miserable fiction instead...just because of someone's political affiliations, their country of birth, their denominations, or their economic situation?

We take these biblical narratives away from others because they probably aren't real enough to even ourselves. What is real to us is this world, and so we interpret one another through the lens of this world.

MC

So with so many scripts for us to pick from... it's no wonder we have a hard time knowing who we really are

Speaking personally, I can assume a denominational identity from a range of past affiliations. At the moment it works best to be Presbyterian. Well, at least I try. I always find out when I threaten the mold by inadvertently mixing it with a “spurious” identity. I’ve been told on occasion: “But that’s not who we are!” Humor aside, it seems that my actions at times serve to expose the power of the Presbyterian identity – and that’s a good thing.

Interestingly, once in conversing with an elder, the topic was raised about the trend in church closures. He said to me, “What if our church ever had to close! Who would we be???” What a question! It’s so true: When your symbols of identity die, you die too, or at least your sense of who you are. And that potential loss is a huge source of anxiety and fear. We can’t underscore the power of this psychic force in our population.

This dear elder, an elderly Scottish immigrant, will need to surrender his own ethic religious identity as it exists in his mind, before he and likewise the people, can move forward together into God’s calling for today – and, I might add, continue to exist.

(All you “contemporary” church folk – your turn is coming!)

It's ironic that we often attempt to resolve the identity crisis of another by giving them an identity of our own choosing..."American Christianity."

I believe committing to the right biblical mental models is the renewing of our minds.

Speaking personally, it seems that much of this renewal work involves the process of recognizing, untangling, and shedding the former illusions. And considering how deeply any identity is webbed into our relationships, our work, our doings, emotions, etc, this is indeed intensely revolutionizing for the mind. I have no clue what fabrications still rule my mind – relating to various identities I may have assumed.

But I praise God that he helps clear the way in this life journey deeper and deeper into our new homeland.

Diane

When considering the Biblical implications of our new life I always try to force myself to find a Biblical word for the concept. Now Jimmy, what Biblical word would you substitute for 'identity'? ;-)

How else can we identify it? And if you can’t identify it – can you really conquer its power over you?

Interesting. Unraveling who we are not, to see who we are.

At the end of our lives, some of us may find that we have wrapped ourselves in so many idealistic disguises that who's revealed underneath is actually a stranger to us. In a very real way, a person who dies and stands before God is actually going to have to finally face not just one being, but two beings for the very first time; God and themselves.

"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." Romans 14

MC

Why would we desire our old identity,

http://letterstojessica.embassyofheaven.com/index.htm by Robert Bissett

Here’s some quotes from it:

“Grownups like to play make-believe just as much as children. Only they do not admit they are playing a game.”

“Grownups have been tricked into obeying the laws of humbugs, rather than the laws of God. When Americans stopped believing that God rules them and the world, Americans stopped being free. That means they are slaves to the humbugs and ruled by wizards."

“Over all these Great Wizards is one Supreme Wizard called the United States, which is imagined to rule over all of America.”

Diane

So with so many scripts for us to pick from...it's no wonder we have a hard time knowing who we really are. :)

The concept of a "narrative" is definitely crucial. You see this demonstrated wonderfully, especially in the Old Testament. The historical books were written to further a particular narrative. And the prophets were raised up continually to remind Israel of her roll in the great redemptive narrative that God was writing. And still yet today, we are called to continue on in this task, of telling of God's redemption story, and to invite men to participate in the ultimate cosmic drama :-)

Brother Jimmy, I believe that we become or identify with what we read. What books or writings that we read, relate to or prefer. Of all things, I believe that shapes and defines our identities more than anything else on earth.

Absolutely. Without trying to sound like a heretic, I think such things constitute a "personal canon" if you will.

That means they are slaves to the humbugs and ruled by wizards."

Raises an interesting point...for thousands of years the identity of a person could be established according to who their "master" was. Perhaps the concept is unchanging, and only the form of the "master" changes from person to cause to thing.

Tolstoy has some interesting thoughts on this topic. Here is a passage where he demonstrates how one is defined by the object of their fidelity. And he also touches on the "game" that adults play, including the "dress-up" costume.. (showing how we are caught in our own models and narratives.)

"In 1892, the same William, the Enfant Terrible of state authority, who says plainly what other people only think, in addressing some soldiers gave public utterance to the following speech, which was reported next day in thousands of newspapers: "Conscripts!" he said, "you have sworn fidelity to ME before the altar and the minister of God! You are still too young to understand all the importance of what has been said here; let your care before all things be to obey the orders and instructions given you. You have sworn fidelity TO ME, lads of my guard; That means you are now my soldiers, that you have given yourselves to me body and soul. For their is now but one enemy, MY enemy...it may come to pass to that I command you to fire on your own kindred, your brothers, even your own fathers and mothers---which God forbid! ---Even then you are bound to obey my order without hesitation."

"All the young men through the whole of Europe are exposed year after year to this test, and with very few exceptions they renounce all that a man can hold sacred, all express their readiness to kill their brothers, even their fathers, at the bidding of the first crazy creature dressed up in a livery with red and gold trimming, and only wait to be told where and when they are to kill. And they actually are ready.

"They say to him: "You must become my slave, and this slavery may force you to kill even your own father;" and he, often very well educated, trained in all the sciences at the university, quietly puts his head under the yoke. They dress him up in a clown's costume, and order him to cut capers, turn and twist and bow, and kill--he does it all submissively. And when they let him go, he seems to shake himself and go back to his former life, and he continues to discourse upon the dignity of man, liberty, equality, and fraternity as before."

MC

On that note, I personally feel the modern Christian bookstore is rife with identity confusion.

I never feel at home or comfortable at most Christian book stores.

We can imagine the problems we set up for people's identities when, in the name of "cultural relevancy" we try to live half way between worldly frameworks and biblical frameworks...some netherworld where identity remains filled with contradiction.

I think this is a major issue. You see it with a lot of contemporary church plants these days. Whether the pastor is 25 years old or 50, most of them are trying so hard to be "cool" and "trendy." Thus, many for the first time in their lives start putting gel in their hair, wearing skinny jeans, and listening to U2. Many are trying so hard to be somebody else, instead of simply conforming themselves to the image of Christ.

How often do we take away these remarkable narratives from one another and offer our own miserable fiction instead...just because of someone's political affiliations, their country of birth, their denominations, or their economic situation?

We take these biblical narratives away from others because they probably aren't real enough to even ourselves. What is real to us is this world, and so we interpret one another through the lens of this world.

What a great question. I think you've hit the nail on the head here. And you've provided an equally great answer. We sell alternative visions and narratives because we've yet to latch ourselves onto the narrative of Scripture. We invent these stories because there is just something in our walk that identifies itself with the narrative that runs through Scripture. We lack "reality."

It grieves me to no end to hear somebody preaching on the gospel message of whom you can tell the message is just doctrine for them. There is a terrible sense that the man speaking is just performing something, and saying the right words, because he knows he has to say them. He lacks an apparent "grip" on his heart and mind that causes me to believe many really don't even get or understand in their depths what it is they are saying. They believe what they are saying. And they say it because they know they must. But you can tell it is a story which has yet to truly disturb them. There remains a disconnect between the words they are saying and the lives they are living.

And I think we choose these other narratives because we don't want to be disturbed. We as a church give birth to one vision after the next, because the reality of the vision we have been already given is just too terrible for us, and the place we are at in our lives. We want to remain comfortable. We don't want to truly turn aside to see, for we know truly seeing will bring about the end of us, and we find that too great of a cost.

When considering the Biblical implications of our new life I always try to force myself to find a Biblical word for the concept. Now Jimmy, what Biblical word would you substitute for 'identity'? ;-)

LOL. Great question Ron. Some "Biblical" words for this would be "likeness" and "image."

Occasionally, when the conversation of identity comes up, the idea of personal annihilation sometimes comes up. The idea goes something along the lines that the person we are should cease to exist and literally be "replaced" by Christ.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Gal.2:20

Is it the New Testament's concept of life that we are to be annihilated as individuals so that Christ may instead occupy our space?

Here is a verse that, to me at least, suggests otherwise.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Revelation 2:17

It seems to me that important part of the Biblical concept of life is that there is a persistent person known only by God and that person.

In agreement with Jimmy's original post, the reconciliation between these two verses is found somewhere in the persistent picture of the "New Man". I welcome better insights then mine, but basically I feel the New Man is talking about a literal merger of Christ and our persons.

"We know that our old man was crucified with him so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin."

"He did this to create in himself one new man out of two, thus making peace,"

"...put on the new man who has been created in God’s image– in righteousness and holiness that comes from truth."

"Do not lie to one another since you have put off the old man with its practices and have been clothed with the new man that is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of the one who created it. Here there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all and in all."

MC

Is it the New Testament's concept of life that we are to be annihilated as individuals so that Christ may instead occupy our space?

Some talk about it in such terms. But to me that idea smacks of the mysticism you mentioned earlier. And such an idea doesn't hold up well against the Scriptures theologically. Not to mention the idea is of no "practical" value whatsoever.

First, it is evident from a study of the Scriptures that the divinely inspired authors all had very different and unique writing styles. You would never confuse the writings of John with the writings of Jeremiah. Though 100% inspired, the writings of each man is greatly marked by the unique personality of each individual.

Secondly, such an idea takes away from the incarnation of Jesus Christ. When God became man, He truly became man. Jesus wasn't just some phantom. He was truly a man. Jesus in His humanity wasn't obliterated by His divinity.

Third, we are called to conform ourselves to the image and likeness of Christ. I don't know how to say this except to say that "you" become conformed to the image of Christ. You don't merely become plastic wrapping for Jesus.

Fourth, in the ages to come the prophets see the nations making their way to Jerusalem, and bringing "their fortunes" with them. This shows me a few things. One, nations are still uniquely nations in the ages to come. Everybody isn't simply a Jerusalemite. Secondly, it shows me that whatever they are bringing as tribute to Jerusalem is something that Jerusalem doesn't have. The tribute that is brought is the unique gifting and fortunes that make that nation that nation.

Fifth, even though there is no longer Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave or free in Christ, and that all are one, the truth of the matter is, the fact they are now one in Christ doesn't obliterate their Jewishness, nor their Greekness. Men are still men. Women are still women. Slaves are still slaves. Freedmen are still free. And each has their unique function and contribution to make. And while Christ has made all these one, and have done away with all the dividing walls, it is still women who give birth. And it is still the Jews to whom the covenants were given. As is self-evident, their oneness didn't result in their distinctions being obliterated.

I know that there is so much confusion on the American side of the Atlantic. The red white and blue here seems to be the biggest challenge to many American Christians.

No doubt. Art Katz used to say, "You are far too American!" And in saying that, it is amazing how in the name of being an American we will do some of the most ungodly things imaginable. What war have the churches not baptized in America? We are called to be a people of peace, and to extend the rule and reign of the Messiah, yet, the peace we establish is more like that which was called the Pax Romana.

what Biblical word would you substitute for 'identity'?

Can this be encapsulated in one word without the risk of reduction? If identity is so all-encompassing, then surely we should be able to come up with several biblical words scattered through the pages – and add to that, examples of historical events, illustrations, parables, etc.

I already mentioned the prodigal son.

Diane

Is it the New Testament's concept of life that we are to be annihilated as individuals so that Christ may instead occupy our space?

Here is a verse that, to me at least, suggests otherwise.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Revelation 2:17

A wonderful promise! Yet I’m a bit nervous, if we must dig so deeply into scripture to tell us we exist for real. Actually I’m nervous about the emphasis on death to “self”– considering that Christ died that we may have Life – abundantly. I fear that there can be so much emphasis on self- annihilation that we risk losing any firm sense of identity at all. And that leaves God’s people easy prey for lesser identities. Maybe we truly were passive automatons of the devil (by submitting to all those humbugs) - but we sure aren't passive automatons of God.

I think God freed us to become truly human, truly alive, exuberantly creative, truly thinking beings, decision makers, truly FREE. We are free to say “No!” to those voices which try to reduce us into their control. We can’t do that without a strong sense of who we are, and who we are not.

"We know that our old man was crucified with him so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin."

And now we are free to say “Yes” to his calling on us.

I say all this because I have a sense that God’s people are significantly beset by passivity – due to a distorted sense of identity as believers. So then, “waiting” on the Spirit, for revival, for the rapture, or whatever, might actually be baptized expressions of passive resignation to a restrictive self-identity – and actually a failure to walk by faith in ones destiny (identity). In other words, it’s still bondage to sin's control - preferring to stay in the Sinai desert.

Does that make any sense?

Giving up what our own autonomy.

So then death of “self” really means death of a false “self” along with all the trappings – the lie you live, or feel you must live. It’s actually the “old man”.

Jesus said: “The truth will set you free.” Christ, the truth, frees us to be true. We're talking about integrity here, aren't we?

Diane

For example you want the material symbols that give you the image you seek to portray to yourself and others. So you work hard and then you spend hard. This is not autonomy at all. It’s a bondage which feels like exhilarating autonomy.

"Keeping up appearances..." is a phrase that comes to mind. Consider doctors and lawyers. They are expected to live a certain lifestyle. Not only by family and friends, but to be respected in their profession, they have to keep up a certain lifestyle for their peers. You have to "play the part" as some say. Lawyers have to act lawyer-ly. Indeed. This is slavery.

I see it as living the life that He did.

but we do exercise our wills to 'will to do the will' of the Father.

the great redemptive narrative that God was writing. And still yet today, we are called to continue on in this task, of telling of God's redemption story, and to invite men to participate in the ultimate cosmic drama

That reminds me of the song, “Turn your eyes upon Jesus, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim”. What do we see when we look at Jesus? It’s far more than a gentle shepherd holding a little lamb, and keeping it away from a bad world. We see the protagonist in a grand drama going on in this present world, a drama that stretches from eternity to eternity. It’s not mere fiction, as in a play, but real – in fact, as real as you'll ever get. And we have a real role in this.

To see Jesus is to see ourselves in such a setting. That's who we really are and where we really are – our identity.

His Word shall not fail you —He promised;
Believe Him, and all will be well:
Then go to a world that is dying,
His perfect salvation to tell!

Diane

why there was an American flag in so many churhes in America?

Great question. And I think the answer can only be understood, in part, in light of our rather unique history as a nation. "The Pilgrims" if you remember, were largely Puritans who were protesting the corruptions and abuses of the Church of England. They thought the Church of England was far too Catholic, and they wanted to "get back to the Bible" in their Christian experience. And part of their Christian experience and understanding of the world was understanding that the state was to be a theocratic one. They didn't see the "sacred vs. secular" divide of the Anabaptists, nor of the the Republic we eventually became as a nation, that made such a distinction a matter of law.

Thus, they set sail for America, and formed pockets of Christian colonies in the New World, such as the Massachusetts Bay Colony and the like. They were looking to set an example as a "City upon a Hill," that would serve as a model of religious and civil government for England. It was hoped, in part, that such would bring about reform in England.

The Great Awakening that happened in the 1700's was very much the bi-product of this movement. That is, when the movement began to fail and people realized that the nation they had founded had slipped away from the ideals of its original planting, and that it never obtained the goals of the Pilgrims, you began to hear calls from the pulpits of pastors who were steeped in this tradition to "turn the nation back to God." And this call, mind you, happened on the eve of the birth of our nation. As the Great Awakening came to an end, America was officially born as a nation, as it finally decided that it had enough of the British crown.

Though most people don't make a connection in present day American Christianity to this history, the fact of the matter is, this history has greatly shaped our identity. The theology of the Puritans and the reformation they tried to bring about in England still haunts us today, and the echos of it still reverberate throughout most Evangelical churches today.

Of course, this history as I said is only a partial explanation for the phenomenon you have noted. Besides still having a strong identity with the past, the truth of the matter is that most of us still have a strong identity with the present fallen world system. We still like this world, even in all of its corruption. And we like it, not necessarily because of the bad and sinful things in it, but because there are seemingly good and redeemable things about it. Give me a democratically elected republic that is governed by a constitution, and a bill that safeguards certain inalienable rights granted to me by God any day of the week, compared to any other system out there today. For all of the faults of this system, it is definitely the best out there. It has great things about it that are something we can all celebrate. But, isn't that the root of all temptation, which began in the Garden?

It has become rather disturbing to me, lately, the idea of flying the American flag in a church. Especially when you understand what a flag represents. Flags only fly where lands and people have been conquered. A flag only flies because boots have been put on the ground, and blood has been spilled.

So, it should be a little bit disturbing that the people of God should gather to worship under a flag that doesn't ultimately represent liberty, but ultimately represents a people who have been conquered. The people of God, though they should be the best citizens and the greatest of patriots in whatever nation they live, should never be a people who pledge allegiance to anybody but Jesus Christ. They should surrender to nobody. For we have no Lord but Him.

Cesar, and whatever name he goes by, is ultimately a parody. Jesus Christ is the reality. And although we should be a great blessing to whatever nation we spend our days passing through this world in, our identity should always be as Christians first and foremost. We may find ourselves subjects of America, Scotland, Canada, Britain, or wherever the Lord may have dispersed us, but, we should recognize that all of these systems and nations are ultimately destined to perish, because they are not built on something eternal.

I was thinking about the identity issue and it has always puzzled me, from the first day that I became a Christian( came out of the world at the age of 27) why there was an American flag in so many churhes in America? I had been to churches as a kid in Scotland,and never saw a Scottish flag in any church, even although Scottish people are very proud of their nationality. I think it is so ingrained in the phyce of Americans that it is not even something that they would give a thought to, but it is , at least to me, very symbolic.

So my American brothers and sisters, what about this, is the flag there because a great part of your identity is wrapped up in that flag? Is it in any way idolotrous.Is this why American Christians are so deeply involved in politics unlike any other country? Jimmy, this is your thread, what is your thoughts on this? I dont want to steer it away from your original thoughts so just ignore if it is not part of what you were trying to say........... bro Frank

Amen Frank. I did not see Jesus identify with National Israel politically or militarily. He always identified with His Father. In fact, the Father granted that Jesus have life within Himself which we as humans do not have but Jesus did because He was God.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

This is not true of any other human being, only Jesus.

What you are talking about is the tip of the iceberg, Frank. Because when Christians identify with their nation (which ever one it is), they then teach as truth many other things that Jesus and the Apostles did not teach or live.

Many American Christians identify (identity) with their fallen, worldly nation so much that they raise their young men and women to fight political wars and die...all in the name of Christ. (Christians from different countries killing other Christians, all because of national patriotism). There are theologies crafted and taught whereby we identify with the flag of our nation and must "defend" the flag at all costs.

Much guilt is heaped upon those who do not ascribe to such a doctrine.

If our new identity is Christ then how can we serve two masters?

Just like God, man is not defined by what he does anymore than God is defined by what He does. What we do does not define who we are. Man derives his spiritual character from a spirit source. Either God or Satan. Man does not standalone and is self-independent no matter what humanists say. Who man is must be derived from another. We either abide in Christ which is our identity or we abide in Satan. We cannot abide in ourselves and be self-independent from God or Satan. That is not how we were created. God is self-existent and we are not. We were created to draw our life, character, nature from another. Our identity (character, nature) is derived from only one of two sources. God or Satan.

The Pharisees did not like it when Jesus said, "Ye are of your father, the devil". He was saying that you draw your life from the devil. Your nature and character mirror him.

Humanism says that "man must find his identity in himself", because there is nothing greater than man himself. So, man is constantly digging deep within himself to find his identity.

There are superficial ways that man seeks to find his identity. They first look to find something about themselves, such as their physical looks. Or they may then look for identity based upon their abilities or talents. Another approach may be to establish their identity based on what they possess (based on material things). And yet another approach may be to establish identity based on association. "I am somebody because I am an American, or belong to this church or this organization (fraternity/sorority), or am on this board or committee.

These are humanistic, materialistic and socialistic foundations and they are as unstable as the shifting sand.
Things about ourselves change with age; and our abilities diminish. Possessions wear out; and the financial resources for acquiring such can recede. Friends are sometimes fickle; and we can be rejected. Do we cease to be who we are when these inevitabilities and misfortunes come upon us?

We must establish an identity about ourselves based on a deeper reality than superficial factors of our abilities, our things, or our associates.

The deepest foundation for identity is spiritual. Man does not have this in himself yet humanism teaches that man has spirituality within himself apart for any other spiritual source. The scriptures teach that our spiritual identity is derived from another, from a spirit source in either God or Satan. God has a Self-existent identity – He is Who He is, in Himself. Man has a derived identity – derived from the presence of either the “spirit of truth” or the “spirit of error” (I John 4:6) – derived from either the spirit of the god of this world (I Cor. 2:12; II Cor. 4:4) or the Spirit of God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ( I Cor. 2:12). Man’s identity will be aligned either with “the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that works in the sons of disobedience” (Eph. 2:2), or the Spirit of God that dwells in receptive Christians (Rom. 8:9,11; Gal. 4:6).

The apostle John explained that it was obvious that there are “children of God” and “children of the devil” (I John 3:10). The apostle Paul differentiated between “sons of disobedience” (Eph. 2:2; 5:6) and “sons of God” (Rom. 8:14) “through faith in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:26). He also referred to those identified as “slaves of sin” (Rom. 6:6) and “slaves of righteousness” (Rom. 6:18). These identifications are based on an individual’s spiritual identity in with either the spirit of God or Satan.

Good or evil, blessing or curse, life or death, God or Satan. There is never a third choice.

The identity of the unregenerate is that of a “sinner” (Rom. 5:19) in identification with the spirit from which all sin is derived (I John 3:10). The derived spiritual identity of the Christian is that of a “saint” (Rom. 1:7; 8:27), a “holy one,” so identified not by himself but by the presence of “the Holy One” (Acts 3:14), Jesus Christ, who by His Spirit indwells the spirit of the regenerate (John 3:1-8).

By faith in Christ and the promise to us that we can receive His Spirit, any individual can participate in the spiritual exchange (Acts 26:18) that changes their spiritual identity and makes them a Christian. But “if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His” (Rom. 8:9). When the living Lord Jesus enters and occupies our human spirit, “the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God” (Rom. 8:16). Christ is our life (Col. 3:4), and will actively seek to manifest His life in our behavior (II Cor. 4:10,11). The Christian, the Christ-one, who is “in Christ” has become a “new creature” (II Cor. 5:17), and has the spiritual identity of “a new man” (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) in place of their previous spiritual identity as an “old man” (Eph. 4:22; Col. 3:9).

Christ, who is life (John 14:6), has become “our life” (Col. 3:4) as a Christian, and we can say with Paul, “it is no longer I who lives, but Christ lives in me” (Gal. 2:20), and “for me to live is Christ” (Phil. 1:21).

Pilgrim

A powerful quote I read this morning:

The Christianization of America has led to the Americanization of the Christian faith and away from the way of Jesus ~ Os Guinness (from: The Last Christian On Earth)

Great quote!

The Americanization of the Christian faith can easily take place once Evangelical Humanism is received. They go hand in hand.

Pilgrim

By the way, I just started reading "The Last Christian on Earth" by Os Guinness this morning. It speaks powerfully to this topic at hand. It's written in a similar format as The Screwtape Letters by C.S.Lewis. As with all Guinness's writings, brilliant and penetrating. It's a bit heavy on the intellectual commentary. But it has prophetic undertones.

The Love of GOD is greater far than tongue or pen could ever tell.

Speaking about “winner” – Lauren Winner, in her book “Real Sex” draws on this very theme of identity to defend chastity outside marriage. She says that it’s not merely about abstinence or avoiding diseases, but, essentially obout living your identity in Christ, in God’s covenant love, and in light of eternity. Here’s a quote:

“To be premaritally chaste is not to sit passively by and simply avoid sex; it is to participate in an active protection of a created good.”

In other words it’s honoring your new identity in Christ…. and as Pilgrim notes:

If our new identity is Christ then how can we serve two masters?

Diane

Sexual identity is an important topic, especially in a sex saturated world that we live in. In that world, if you go 6 months without "getting some," then you are made to feel like something is terribly wrong with you. Our culture made a tribute to this idea with "The 40 Year Old Virgin." Ack! A 40 year old virign!!!

I boast, in the Lord, that as of this July I will be a 30-year old virgin. And there are times in certain circles that I am made to feel shame for that. But it is a testimony that I gladly share with family, friends, co-workers, and people at church. I am glad in the Lord that to date, He has let me remain single as I am, and unmarried, so that I can have the joy of sharing this testimony. This is my "sexual identity."

But because people don't have their sexual identity grounded in the Lord, you see a culture that runs amuck with it. Just look at the homosexual movement in this nation. Years ago, people in mass started openly saying, "I was born gay." And their sexual identity became so strong, that as part of "equal opportunity employment" in this nation, the "sexual orientation" of a job candidate has become something one considered in the application process of being hired from anything from a daycare job to the CEO of a fortune 500 company.

And although we should be a great blessing to whatever nation we spend our days passing through this world in, our identity should always be as Christians first and foremost.

Because we come in all cultural shapes and colors, a "christian" identity can be an elusive idea to wrap our heads collective around. Certainly we can point out the parodies we don't want to be, but that is the easy half of the challenge.

Consider the identity of "Native American." Many descendents of native american peoples are able to be both inside and outside of our contemporary society at once. Yet key to the preservation of their NA identity is through race, tribal affiliations, music, pow wows, and even native names. Many Christian Native Americans also affiliate with manifest elements of their "earthly" culture. In fact, they do so as a celebration of their freedom in Christ.

It is interesting that the preservation of heritage I admire in Native Americans is something I find difficult and problematic for myself. I believe my own difficulties has something to do with my being a caucasian who is identified with hegemony, rather then history, and so for me cultural identification seems more political then personal. (Even if it is not meant to be.) And so, since I must be careful about the slightest identification with American culture, for the sake of my brothers, I admit there is a temptation to fill in the void by adopting guilt as an identity. But that would be just another disguise...pitifully motivated by a need for approval.

Once I invited an african american buddy of mine to a bluegrass festival called the "Backwoods". He seemed to think I was exceedlingly naive, exclaiming, "Backwoods Festival? That doesn't sound like a quality place for a black man!"

So, that leaves me with an interesting challenge. In what ways am I "permitted" to make a visible identity as a Christian, given that only invisible identities are permissable? I think the question rests upon a fallacy...that I must pass the scrutiny of people I don't even know who might be offended at how I look or talk. In all my years as a Christian, I have been "given" many identities ranging from brother to racist. Only God knows which of them are true.

In the end, one thing I am confident of. It is empirically impossible to use affirmation by others as a measurement of our "identity." We are all in various stages of maturity, recovering from a diverse mixture of hippocampus shaping experiences, incapable of rendering an objective verdict.

I am reminded of these well known words from Dietric Bonhoffer. (AKA "that German";)

"Who am I? They mock me, these lonely questions of mine.
Whoever I am, Thou knowest, O God, I am Thine!"

Perhaps the only meaningful answer to our quest as Christians for identity is found in the way the Apostle John referred to himself, not by name, but by his relationship to Jesus,

"One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him."

Blessings,

MC

Because we come in all cultural shapes and colors, a "christian" identity can be an elusive idea to wrap our heads collective around. Certainly we can point out the parodies we don't want to be, but that is the easy half of the challenge.

Once I expressed the idea that one could be a Christian living in Iran, and be a patriot. "What?!?! How could you be a patriot in a country such as that? Don't you know they...."

It was a very intense and interesting conversation that did not end well. My best friend would not talk to me for almost a week after that.

The day I came to Christ I was no longer a Scottish nationalist, which I had been before that glorious event

It took me a little bit longer after the Lord saving me to finally see the dangers of national identity and pride. While we should have a sense of patriotism for the nation that we live in, it should be out of a very different sense than anything the world relates to. We love the place of our sojourning because God loves that place. And we should love other nations too. And our love for one should never move us to blow the brains out of another.

Brother Art Katz helped me to see the great dangers behind much of what constitutes patriotism today. Indeed, the word he spoke on these issues eventually sank so deeply that my passion for professional sports greatly waned. Because I saw that my love for a particular team was not much different than my love for country.

I've come to the place of seeing where I realize that our love for a professional sports team is often tied to a love for a local sort of nationalism. For example, I root for the Chicago Cubs because I am from Chicago. Likewise, I root for the Carolina Panthers because I live in Charlotte. Neither team gives me a lot to actually get excited about. Historically, they've not exactly been franchises known for winning. But I root for them just the same. Why? Because my identity is caught up in my locality. I am deeply earth bound in my thinking.

And it is interesting to see how one's local sports franchise is always tied to national sentiments. Have you ever wondered why in God's name every NFL football game starts off with somebody singing the Star Spangled Banner, accompanied with a fly over with fighter jets? The spirit that connects the two is one and the same. This is not an accidental phenomenon.

I cannot even imagine the horror of then going back to war with one brother blowing another brother's brains out because two secular entitities are fighting over trade routes and vying for power.

I am told that theologian and pacifist Stanley Hauerwas has a great poster hanging in his office at Duke University. It asks something to the effect: What would happen if Christians agreed to stop killing other Christians in war? Can we agree to at least start there?

I've come to the place of seeing where I realize that our love for a professional sports team is often tied to a love for a local sort of nationalism.

Why is there this powerful drive to get your sense of identity from sports team in the first place? You aren’t even one of the players; yet you say ‘WE won; or “WE lost”.

It’s because assuming this identity makes you feel bigger than you really are. It takes away your sense of finiteness, loneliness, emptiness, and potentially unbearable shame which could arise if you were to face yourself alone - just as you are. These bigger-than-life identities fill you with what you lack and yet need so desperately. No wonder these sports players get paid so much! They offer their fans much more than sports entertainment.

Then there are the TV celebrities – through whom you can live your entire sense of identity. And even for Christians – we too can live through the heroes of the faith – and not really have much to offer from within ourselves – through our own faith journey.

I would say that this desire to identify with someone/something bigger than ourselves is the same as covering ourselves with fig leaves. It keeps us from experiencing ourselves as poor, wretched and naked. Yet that’s the only way into the kingdom. “The way is narrow…” Our cover-up identities can’t get through the “narrow door”.

However, look what we get in exchange (a word Pilgrim used earlier) Our new identity is from something far bigger than ourselves, bigger than or our church, or our denomination, or nation. In Christ we have an identity in a mighty eternal kingdom spread across time and place – into eternity.

I see a terrible danger in portraying the new identity in Christ merely as taking away sins, assuming his character qualities, and being a better person. That’s far too small. That’s only about yourself – and nothing beyond. We can expect God’s people to continue taking their bigger identity from sports teams, nations, denominations, religious activities, etc. A miniaturized salvation is not enough to truly change people. While salvation may be “personal” – it can’t be JUST personal.

Diane

There's so much more that we both could say about this topic and how it affects the identity of the young and single. Enough to fill another thread.

Ann, you may wish to consider purchasing "Real Sex" by Lauren Winner. It'll be on Amazon.com. It covers singleness too. I think it's great for teens and their parents, and youth leaders.

But glad you brought this topic up. It's been a burden of mine to see our young reached with a better message than what this world is giving them - everywhere they turn.

Diane

Well said Diane

Our Enemy will pull out all of the tricks in his book to cause us to stray from Christ (derive our identity from anything and anyone but the Lord).

It is really amazing how crafty he is. He knows us better than we do and thus, God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. He knows we are not self-existent creatures but rather derivative creatures. He knows that we do not exist within ourselves but that as derivative creatures we will (have to) derive our character from anything that seems "good" and thus he appears as an angel of light.

So all that seems good and noble and right (though it not be of Christ), we flock to thinking we are doing good. We buy the lie, over and over again. Why this powerful drive (as roadsign said), because we want to be associated with what is good (as our enemy well knows). And he also knows that most of us will take the easy path (no cross) so he continuously presents it to us. (The hard path is the cross).

Pilgrim

I read the release of the Spirit by Nee. But I've read so many of his works that they just kinda blur together. It's probably been about 7-8 years. What brings up that book?

Earlier Philologos asked for a biblical word that might encompass this idea of “identity”. King Jimmy, I hope it’s okay if I step in on this question posed to you. I’m going to suggest the word, “LOVE” – by drawing from two authors.

Larry Crabb, an evangelical psychologist, sees love as our core human need. He has categorized the meaning of love into two general terms: SIGNIFICANCE and SECURITY. Note how both these terms are associated with identity. In other words, one’s object of identity is supposed to fulfill both these overall needs. It may be unreliable, ultimately destructive, or a mere illusion – but nevertheless, at least for the moment, it fulfills the fundamental human for need for LOVE.

Here’s the other quote:

“Man cannot live without love. He remains a being that is incomprehensible to himself, his life is senseless if love is not revealed to him, if he does not encounter love, if he does not experience it and make it his own, if he does not intimately participate in it.”

This author notes that only the love of God can truly and adequately fulfill this need.

I think these points reinforce our emphasis on identity being a crucial component of the good news message - which itself is rooted in love.

Diane

Earlier Philologos asked for a biblical word that might encompass this idea of “identity”. King Jimmy, I hope it’s okay if I step in on this question posed to you. I’m going to suggest the word, “LOVE” – by drawing from two authors.... the meaning of love into two general terms: SIGNIFICANCE and SECURITY.

An interesting idea. And I agree with Larry Crabb on what he says here about love and such. But, I think the desire and need for love has to do with an aspect of our identity and the stuff we are made up of. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that "love" is a term synonymous with "identity" in the Biblical sense of the term. I think the Biblical words "image" or "likeness" has more to do with the word "identity."

What about the good old word, ‘SALVATION”?

"The Lord is my light and my SALVATION." Ps. 27: 1

"The Lord is my strength and my song,
He has become my SALVATION." Ps 118: 14 (in today's lectionary reading)

If the word SALVATION seems like an unlikely choice, could it be that we have reduced it to merely the absolution of sin and damnation? The psalmist seems to see the Lord himself as his salvation – in the very presence of threatening circumstances. Judging from his life context, I suspect that he was thinking not just about physical survival, but about all that encompasses his sense of identity - his security and significance as a human being - his sense of "who I am" when nothing around me provides it. (ex the hostile nations swarming around him like bees)

Frank, might the Psalmist's circumstances be somewhat what you imply when you refer to "circumstances that will rectify [the wrong idea of they are as American Christians] "?.

Diane

Since Salvation is just another title for Jesus (which speaks of His nature and character) Who is our salvation, the word that would encompass "identity" for me would be Christ. Nothing ABOUT Christ, nothing POINTING TO Christ, no words that describe Him, but rather Christ alone.

I in Him and He in me.

If I have exchanged the nature of Satan for the nature of God in Christ (we are partakers of His divine nature), then my new identity is wrapped up in my new Lord, Jesus Christ. His will is my will. My old identity was characterized by one word, too. Satan. But God...

Pilgrim

Roadsign said, "Earlier Philologos asked for a biblical word that might encompass this idea of “identity”.

...How about, "name."

"I will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written..." (Rev. 2.17).

Allan

I like that, Allan.

Reminds me that we are "called out ones".

Called out of what (or whom or both)?

and by implication...

called into what (or whom or both)?

Pilgrim

KingJimmy on 2012/4/1 12:02:03
" I think the Biblical words "image" or "likeness" has more to do with the word "identity.""

I think the problem is that we use the phrase 'identity crisis' and similar ones in an undefined way and it can be short path from there to the acceptance of psychological terminology which sits uneasily with the Scripture's way of revealing truth. It can be a short step into such concepts as 'poor self image' and the like. Terms such as 'the self' which now appear in modern Bible translations are part of this compromise. How many sermons have we heard on the death of 'self'? but is there a Biblical doctrine of 'the self'; there is certainly a Freudian definition.

Man-made Images and likenesses were banned in the Old Covenant. The greatest sin, Biblically, is idolatry because is does not tell the truth about God. It is almost equally dangerous to construct an 'image or likeness' of ourselves. How many sacrifices have been offered to our personal concept of 'what I should be like'? Families, marriages, churches have all been sacrificed to 'my ministry' and 'my gift'.

...How about, "name."

Okay! Let’s run with this. Let’s try this one on for size. Of course we won’t get far if we draw from our culture which has created an individualized “self” who is identified by a name virtually pulled out of a hat …. a movie star’s name, or simply self-designed. That’s a rootless name.

For starts, how about considering the marriage tradition:

A woman can't take the name of any man just because she likes him or his house, or because he is good looking and has lots of money. She marries a man only after he has invited her to be his wife. Through a promise, he receives her into a permanent covenant relationship with him. She promises to remain faithful. She surrenders her own surname and takes the name of her husband. She becomes the Mistress (Mrs.) of ___(his name) and receives all the rights and privileges associated with that relationship.

Compare that with taking God’s name:

God's name is only for those whom he calls and receives into a permanent covenant relationship with him. He receives the genuinely repentant person - those who leave their ways of sin and call on him for salvation:"Everyone who calls on the NAME of the Lord will be saved."[Rom. 10:13]

When the Law was given through Moses it was intended for a specific group of people, the Israelites. God separated them out and called them his own possession. The Law was not a behaviour modification program for unbelievers. It was a blueprint for a relationship - a people in relationship with their Creator.

The first commandment is: "You shall have no other gods before me." This specifies a monogamous relationship with God, taking his name just as a wife takes her husband's name. Placing one's loyalty anywhere else is really spiritual adultery. In other words, if the Lord is not the master and sole delight of one's life, there is infidelity in the relationship. Then it is vain, or useless to take (claim) God's name; it is vain to assume all the privileges associated with it; it is also vain to assume God's promise of protection.

Living in his name - an awesome privilege

1. We have God's power, authority, and protection:
Taking the name of Jesus has tremendous power and authority, so much that it can threaten those in places of power. When Peter and John healed a cripple, they were dragged before the elite religious authorities and asked:
"By what power or what name did you do this?" Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, responded: "It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth... that this man stands before you healed." [Act. 4:7] The authorities were threatened and so they said: "We must warn these men to speak no longer to anyone in this name." [Acts. 4:17]

When we encounter similar opposition because we have lived by that name God will protect us: "The name of the Lord is a strong and mighty tower. The righteous run into the name of the Lord." [Prov. 18:10].

In Jesus' prayer for his followers he asked God, "Protect them by the power of your name...." [John 17: 11]

2. We conquer God's enemies: "Through your name we trample foes." [Ps. 44:5]

When David faced Goliath, he bravely shouted. "You come against me with sword and spear.I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty."

From this perspective (so far) does the word “name” overcome the psychologized potential of the word “identity”?

What else is implied in taking God's name?

Diane

I like this idea of "name." It's pretty good. I think I'd toss it up there with "likeness" and "image." Especially considering how in Biblical culture, the "name" you were called was often tied to who you were as a person. Thus, Jacob was a surplanter. And Jesus is savior. Etc.

...psychological terminology which sits uneasily with the Scripture's way of revealing truth

I'm interested in understanding this better. And if I can't understand this better, then let me be submitted, conformed, and aligned to biblical patterns rather then trying to fit biblical concepts into modern cognitive terms of "self-image" or "self-sonstruction."

It's clear to me that psychologists and social scientists, (as well as fellow Sermonindexians:) find it to very difficult to agree upon a definition of what "self" is. I can only imagine that who I am is far to unstable over the course of a lifetime, that a preoccupation with defining myself may open rabbit holes that only increase the instability.

Blessings,

MC

Are we defining self, now? Self is the antithesis of Christ. Defining who we are can only be done in general terms since we are all unique individuals in Christ.

Christ does not obliterate our personalities.

We either abide in Christ and produce fruit (righteous acts and character) from Him or we abide in Satan and produce fruit (unrighteous acts and character) from him.

One cannot abide in themselves. There is no true, independent self contrary to what New Agers believe (believing lies).

Pilgrim

As to name/identity, here's a verse that's very meaningful:

"...He calleth His own sheep by name, and leadeth them out" (Jn. 10.4).

In other words, if we are one of His sheep, we have a "name" uniquely our own by which He knows us, and calls us. I think in the Bible "name" speaks of character, nature... destiny... "identity."

He calls us each "by name." It's unique to our individual relationship with Him.

And I believe it's a creative call. God called forth the host of heaven "by name," called them into being by speaking their names (Isa. 40.26). Quite a task. But not one of them failed to come forth.

"And I say also unto thee, thou art Peter..." Simon son of Jonas wasn't much of a rock in himself, as he demonstrated more than once. But he did become that rock.
How so? Because Jesus called him so.

(I realize in some circles there's a doctrine about getting your new name, and they make a big deal of calling you Samuel now instead of Bill, or Esther instead of Jane, etc. But I think this is very short of the beautiful truth Scripture is seeking to show us.)

Allan

There is no true, independent self

Along this line, scripture casts mankind as a created being always in some kind of positional relationship to a his creator. The state of that relationship seems to be one the most important issues at stake for every person. And surely the state of this relationship also bears on any idea of "identity" we might develop.

Now, when we say "American Christians" should not think of themselves as "Americans", we have only deepened their supposed "identity crisis" , by identifying them as "Americans" and cementing them to that very identity. We are the ones relating them to a country. (Do not think about elephants! Oops, there you go again, thinking about elephants!)

So what do we think about, when we think about who we are? What is a man, if he is not a citizen of a country, or an occupation, or an artist, or a husband, or a nice guy, or an upright creature? What does the bible say? Every one of those states or abilities could be taken from me, and I would still be the man God created...whoever that is.

There is only one "I AM". Everyone and everything else is relative. Yet even this statement is meaningless, because we can never measure how relative in size or duration or intelligence we are to God. I admit that whenever I think about identity, my whole investigation seems rooted in philosophic frameworks rather then in scriptural ones. I have the best misguided intentions to build for myself a biblical frame to live within, using tools meant to build biological or psychological frameworks!

In his sermon "What is a Man?" John Wesley briefly engages contemporary scientific and philosophic answers to the question, but then disengages their frameworks just as quickly in order to find a biblical answer. He concludes with this summation.

"Suffice it then for us to know this plain and comfortable truth, -- that the almighty Creator hath shown that regard to this poor little creature of a day, which he hath not shown even to the inhabitants of heaven "who kept not their first estate." He hath given us his Son, his only Son, both to live and to die for us! O let us live unto him, that we may die unto him, and live with him ever!"

I find that I am happy to see myself as a fellow "poor little creature" shown inexplicable regard by my Creator, even if I am not distinguishable from any other "poor little creature!"

Blessings,

MC

a preoccupation with defining myself may open rabbit holes that only increase the instability.

Diane

Either that, or watch hockey.

Hey!!! Hockey is great!!! Don't hate!!! :-)

I find that I am happy to see myself as a fellow "poor little creature" shown inexplicable regard by my Creator, even if I am not distinguishable from any other "poor little creature!"

I do believe that will preach :-)

Ultimately, what the Lord says about me is of greater value than what anyone else says about me, including me.

We were all adopted and as such, we learn that we have a new Father, new family and new country. Our old father (Satan) is not our father anymore, our old family (the world) is no longer those with which we have intimate fellowship with and our citizenship is now in heaven. We are now citizens of a heavenly city.

A few names that He calls us by:

Son of God 1 John 3:2
Friend John 15:14
Beloved 1 John 3:2
Holy Brethren Heb 3:1
Saint Acts 9:13
Righteous Man Jas 5:16
Child of Light 1 Th 5:5

Pilgrim

Hey!!! Hockey is great!!! Don't hate!!!

Oh no! Did I step on somebody’s identity?

He calls us each "by name." It's unique to our individual relationship with Him.

But Bonhoeffer was not talking about individualism! We live in different times. We Christians shaped in our own culture, we are more inclined to see ourselves from an individual perspective than as a member in a vast household of faith – or as Hebrews 12:1 puts it, a cloud of witnesses:

“Therefore since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses….”

I think, in view of our tendency to be individualistic – even about our Christian identity, we should strive to restore this wider perspective of our Christian “identity” – because that is where we can find our resolve remain faithful: “Let us throw off everything that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the maraca marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus… “

This “great cloud of witnesses” has vastly mushroomed over the past two millennia. I wonder, how aware are God’s people of this “cloud” - as they worship on Sunday, as they pray, study, live out their lives, etc.

What about those others….

Diane

Hi Ann,

How could I forget Bride? Each new name that God gives us has a corresponding name from our former suitor (deceiver).

The opposite of Bride is rejected, spurned, abused.

God's calling and adoption most certainly changes our identity.

Thank you for the reminder.

Pilgrim

pilgrim777 on 2012/4/2 11:50:18
"Christ does not obliterate our personalities. "

I like this statement, although I suspect we shall have another problem defining personality! But behind this protest is my own question. "How do we distinguish, not necessarily separate, redemption and regeneration. Clearly some things can be 'retrieved' whereas other things will need to be 'renewed'.

ADisciple on 2012/4/2 13:10:14
"As to name/identity, here's a verse that's very meaningful:

"...He calleth His own sheep by name, and leadeth them out" (Jn. 10.4)."

I think 'name' might find a closer synonym in 'nature'. God's names are revelations of his character and the Scriptures certainly use 'names' to describe character. Now we need yet another definition... what is character and is it renewed or redeemed?

"How do we distinguish, not necessarily separate, redemption and regeneration. Clearly some things can be 'retrieved' whereas other things will need to be 'renewed'.

May I try out this:

Redemption: God ransoms us – and sets us apart for himself and establishes us in our new “identity” ( to use our word)

Regeneration (being renewed): The ongoing process of change after redemption. It is the process of growth in reflecting our new “identity”.

As far as "character", I see it as the lifelong outworking of both redemption and regeneration (renewal).

How am I tracking?

Diane

by roadsign on 2012/4/3 16:04:45
"How am I tracking? "
"Regeneration (being renewed): The ongoing process of change after redemption. It is the process of growth in reflecting our new “identity”.

Are you regarding regeneration only as a process or as an event?

"Redemption: God ransoms us – and sets us apart for himself and establishes us in our new “identity” ( to use our word) "

but what aspects of 'me' are redeemed and what aspects of 'me' are regenerated?

Philologos presents two theologically distinct words: regeneration and redemption. (I’ve tended to use them interchangeably).

I’ll give it a shot:

Are you regarding regeneration only as a process or as an event?

“… and have been clothed with the new man that is BEING RENEWED in knowledge according to the image of the one who created it”. Col. 3:10

“Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND” Rom. 12:2

“You were taught with reference to your former way of life to lay aside the old man who is being corrupted in accordance with deceitful desires, to BE RENEWED IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR MIND and to put on the new man who has been created in God’s image.” Eph. 4:22-24

Through the Spirit’s work within: “…. the RENEWING of the Holy Spirit.” Titus 3:5

but what aspects of 'me' are redeemed and what aspects of 'me' are regenerated?

My inward person is being regenerated, but my body is not: “…even if our physical body [outer man= exo anthropos] is wearing away our INNER PERSON [eso] is being RENEWED day by day 1 Co 4:16 NET (edit: correction)

Observation:
Eph. 4:24 distinguishes - the “old man”[anthropos], as in, the former way of life with the “new man”[anthropos], as in, new way of life. But 1 Cor. 4:16 distinguishes the inner being from the physical body (exterior man).

How "self" and "identity" fits in here..... I wonder....

Diane

by roadsign on 2012/4/5 1:34:56
"Regeneration, if as in Gr. anakainosis, ananeoo seems to be a process - as in renewal, reform, renovate, change for the better.

“… and have been clothed with the new man that is BEING RENEWED in knowledge according to the image of the one who created it”. Col. 3:10

“Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND” Rom. 12:2

“You were taught with reference to your former way of life to lay aside the old man who is being corrupted in accordance with deceitful desires, to BE RENEWED IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR MIND and to put on the new man who has been created in God’s image.” Eph. 4:22-24 "

but anakainosis (Strong's G342 - anakainōsis) is not the word translated regeneration in our versions. That word is generally translated 'renewal' or 'renewing'. Refreshing would be a good translation. On the other hand regeneration is the word palingenesis (Strong's G3824 - paliggenesia) and as both words are used in Titus 3:5
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Tts&c=3&v=5&t=KJV#conc/5
it is clear that the words are not synonyms.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/trench/section.cfm?sectionID=18&lexicon=true&strongs=G342

is redemption being relesed from our sin prision ,through the process of regenisis or regeneration or better said recreation ,, we are redeemed by the blood in one scence as jusatfied ,and redemed by the spirt through santification ,through the process of the new birth

renewing your mind is something differnt from regeneration,.man plays a part in that ,,wile redemption and regenration is all of god ,,,

does recreation or regeneration continue or is it done and compleate at the new birth ,does god continue to recreate us ,or does he then conform us to the image of his son ,which is slighty different ,,comformaty ,and regeneration

regeneration is the word palingenesis

That’s better! This word is used only once. It conveys the idea of rebirth, new creation:

“… not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,” Titus 3:5

From Titus 3:5: Regeneration is the means by which God saves us, ie delivers us - along with the renewing of the Spirit. Is regeneration is an event while renewing is a process? I tend to lean that way, yet regeneration seems to include the process of renewal too. Also we cannot pin the Spirit’s work down. “The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” Jn 3:8

And now the other question:

What of “me” is rebirthed, that is renewed, as distinct from “retrieved” as in redeemed?

I seem no further ahead in understanding your question Philologos. Perhaps another question is in order. Presently, I would say that the new man has more to do with Christ who works in me to change me – to put behind old ways of thinking and doing that where dictated by sin’s rule, and to adopt new ways which reflect his nature through me. I don’t see compartments about “me” at all - other than the inner being which is being renewed and physical body which is dying.

Perhaps other scriptures will be useful.

Diane

I made a guess on Ron's question of our "heart" or 'the heart of a man' [or where the seed is sown in Matt 13], and with what you've also posted now, on 'regeneration' - I'm going to try guessing again with - Eze 18:31 & Eze 36:26 - Regeneration = given a 'new' heart, and also a new spirit to replace our dead spirit.

Good word, Ann – heart. Here is another word we have squeezed into a compartment - whereas in scripture it represented the person in more totality.

Have you heard this?
My heart is what I feel – the “real” me.
My mind is what I think – not the real me. (merely cerebral)
Go with your “heart” as opposed to your mind and then you will be authentic. mmmmmmm

I'm not sure what a dead spirit is though? Even the word "spirit" doesn't seem to be a compartment. Is it simply our inner being ("heart") as opposed to our exo-being (physical?

PS I made the typo correction. Thanks for pointing it out.

Diane

I think the Bible uses the heart and mind interchangeably.

This article really helped me to attend a meeting that I was trying to avoid.
I was invited to share in a meeting by my Wife's friend who is a White American. I normally attend this meeting with my wife but in recent times my wife was not able to attend this meeting due to medical reasons. I know God wants me to attend this meeting (as this meeting was organized by our friend with Good intention to glorify Jesus) but I felt odd to be only Asian in this group. Later this article came to my mind. My identity does not matter any more as it is no longer I who live but it is Jesus who lives in me. If anyone finds me different due to my Race let them think whatever they want, I am dead to the opinion of Men. I got courage and went there to speak. God gave me utterance and also help people with their burdens in life.

Praise God for changing our Identity.

Amen, Sree.

Here are some examples where mind and heart are used interchangeably. Sometimes, they are used as synonyms.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the THOUGHTS of his HEART was only evil continually.

Eze 38:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy MIND, and thou shalt think an evil THOUGHT:

Act 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their MINDS EVIL affected against the brethren.

Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the HEART of men, proceed evil THOUGHTS, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Mar 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to MIND the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he THOUGHT thereon, he wept.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Jere. 17:10 - "I, the Lord, search the HEART, I test the MIND"

Psa 139:23 Search me, O God, and KNOW MY HEART: try me, and KNOW MY THOUGHTS:

Pilgrim

by roadsign on 2012/4/5 10:05:19
"That’s better! This word is used only once. It conveys the idea of rebirth, new creation: "

regeneration is used twice and the other instance may be instructive. Check out palingenesis on the BlueLetterBible
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3824&t=KJV

and check out the option to read Trench's Synonyms. This is a valuable resource when comparing words which are apparently similar.

The Matthew instance of 'regeneration' may be easier to define. It seems to be referring to the new creation. Regeneration then is an event but the consequence of that event needs constant refreshing. The word for renewal means 'refreshing'. There are different words in Greek for 'new'. One implies new in the sense of recent, the other implies new in the sense of being fresh. The word for 'renewal' in Titus is the word for 'fresh' with 're' in front of it.

In the old days of Cathode Ray Tubes and monitors we used to go for monitors with the highest refresh rate because as the image was refreshed for frequently it had the effect of holding the image steady on the CRT. Regeneration is an event but the new image needs to be constantly renewed/refreshed for the image to hold steady. Consequently day by day salvation is the consequence of regeneration followed by constant refreshing supplies of the Spirit.

by roadsign on 2012/4/5 10:05:19
"I don’t see compartments about “me” at all - other than the inner being which is being renewed and physical body which is dying. "

No, I don't compartmentalise 'me' either. The reason I was speaking about 'redemption' is because there is something called 'me' which was 'sold under sin' and the only 'me' I knew was one dominated by the Sin principle. Sin marked us so powerfully that it is not easy to imagine what 'me' would have been like without sin. However, 'me' would have been different to 'you'. i.e. there is something which is uniquely 'me' which God loved and determined to salvage. In regeneration, as I see it, the Sin principle is resolved but that still leaves 'me'.

His 'once and for all' cross dealt with Sin, my daily cross deals with 'me'. There was something in 'me' which he determined to have for himself. That 'me' is to be reclaimed/redeemed. My nature, dominated by Sin, could never be redeemed, that had to be brought to an end and a new start effected; that is regeneration.

There is no "me" in the Godhead, and there is no "me" in union with Christ. At least there should not be.

What do you think John meant when he said, "I must decrease and He must increase"?

In a marriage with a man and wife, there should be no "me", either. Doesn't make for a very good marriage.

Pilgrim

Brother Ron, sometimes I think that you and Diane deal with the same cross at times - 'me'.

That's funny, Annie. Sounds like you are saying that you are the SI Gatekeeper, aka SI Cross?

:-)

Pilgrim

"quote: by pilgrim777 on 2012/4/6 2:05:11
There is no "me" in the Godhead, and there is no "me" in union with Christ. At least there should not be.

What do you think John meant when he said, "I must decrease and He must increase"?

In a marriage with a man and wife, there should be no "me", either. Doesn't make for a very good marriage."

This sounds good but I think it deserves a closer look.
Christ prayed 'not my will but thine'. He was very conscious of 'me' and 'my'.

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. Gal 2:20 NKJV"

You are focussing on the 'it is no longer I that live' but that doesn't mean that Paul has no 'me'. In fact, as the passage develops he declares that 'he' is 'living a life' by the faith of the Son of God. This is the balance needed between grace and faith. Faith is 'my' response to 'grace' or 'revelation'. If we ask the question, based on Gal 2:20 'who was living 'the life in the flesh by the faith of the Son of God'... the answer would be Paul. Or if we asked him the question personally, he would have said 'me'.

God does not obliterate 'me' he redeems 'me' and by his grace I choose to live the life that he has given to me. I could not live it if he had not given it, but when he has given it, it is 'me' who is is required to live it.

Most of Nee's books aren't really "books" in the formal sense of the term. I think he only actually wrote one or two books. Most of the "books" written in his name are just transcribed sermons or a random assortment of short essays that he wrote that others have transcribed and compiled.

The concept of a "narrative" is definitely crucial. You see this demonstrated wonderfully, especaially in the Old Testament. The historical books were written to further a particular narrative. And the prophets were raised up continually to remind Isreal of her roll in the great redemptive narrative that God was writing. And still yet today, we are called to continue on in his task, of telling of God's redemption story, and to invite men to participate in the ultimate cosmic drama :-)

KJ,
This is easier said then done. It takes countless hours in the presence of God and in prayer. There is a price that we must pay, to walk under is anoiting not everyword that is spoken comes from the Spirit of God. But this we know that when we look at the Cross, we are immediately reminded on this glorious day of his identity.

I don't know of anyone that can speak of
God's redemption story and not be broken..