Sins forgiven and the old man crucified

I am soundly saved, baptised in the Spirit, but I have found that there is something in me that is crooked and unacceptable to God.

I would like to have a discussion around these topics.

• The old man who is corrupted. The nature we inherited from Adam that remains in the Christian after being “saved”.

• The New Man we inherited from Christ, which God created in righteousness and true holiness.

• What did the Apostle Paul mean when he wrote “That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus” Col 1:28.

With that said I am looking for an open honest discussion which is edifying…

Amen tuc.

We either have the nature of God or the nature of Satan. We have no independent nature apart from from one of them.

We do not have the nature of God and Satan at the same time. And what is human nature if not the nature of Satan? The Satanic flesh nature that people call human nature is not of God and you are right, it was crucified.

To say we have a "human nature" is to say that we have an independent self apart from either God or Satan.

Were we 50% regenerated or 100% regenerated?

Now, we can still sin, but we don't have to. The power of sin has been broken and the spirit of disobedience (Satan) has been replaced by the Spirit of God.

We have a heart now to abide in God and no longer in Satan and thus we derive our life, nature and character from God.

We have the imprints and patterns and memory of sin in this flesh and that is why we must renew our mind and choose life each minute of each day and not death.

The choice is still ours but God has given us a new heart and grace and His Spirit so that we might overcome the world, the flesh and the Devil and say with Jesus, "The Evil One has nothing in me".

Pilgrim

Hello Colin,

Praise God for your testimony, "I am soundly saved, baptised in the Spirit, but I have found that there is something in me that is crooked and unacceptable to God."

I strongly recommend you visit old joe's thread and read his posts. On there you will see many posts that refute the idea that a Saint can be vile but the Apostle Paul, himself, claims he is vile. I know I am completely unworthy of my salvation and thank Jesus Christ my Lord for His Spirit living in me. I thank Him for the work He does/will do in and through me, for in me there is no good work. If I do something good it is to His credit. Please know this does not throw me off from doing what He allows me to do with complete joy.

Below is the link to that lengthy thread. Beware of anyone telling you other than what Paul teaches, or of anyone twisting the intent of his words.

You ask: • What did the Apostle Paul mean when he wrote “That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus” Col 1:28. I believe he answers that in v.27 "this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: "

Kindest regards,
white stone
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=43678&forum=36&243

Man is a tri-part being. Body, Soul & Spirit. Unsaved persons have spirits which are dead to God. Once you are saved your spirit becomes alive to God by becoming one with God's Spirit. You spirit man is sinless and perfect, otherwise you could not have fellowship with God. Your body on the other hand is anything but perfect or sinless. Paul said "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing." In the book of Romans Paul talks about the conflict in the believer between the spirit and the flesh. If you live after the flesh you will die but if you live by the spirit you will experience life and peace. Any honest Christian will tell you that this tension is real. Between the flesh and the spirit is the soul. The soul consists of man's mind which includes the heart (affections and emotions) and the will. To grow and mature as a Christian you must learn to choose by an act of your will to lean and rely on your spirit and distrust and turn away from the flesh.

The point I am making is that I like to think of my spirit man as the "true" me and the flesh as the "false" or "dead" me. When we leave our bodies (either at death or when Jesus returns) we will receive glorified bodies and our struggle against the flesh will be over. So when I say that my spirit is the "true" me I am not pretending it to be so, it is what will survive and exist forever. Not my old stinking flesh.

However, until we get our glorified new bodies we will be regularly solicited by our flesh to do its bidding. I have learned that instead of being constantly preoccupied or obsessed with sin, when I focus on Jesus and my relationship to Him I can overcome the flesh and sin by the power of His Spirit. You see, we only behave according to how we see ourselves to be, our identity. Most people have it just backwards, they base their identity on their behavior. So if they have a problem with overeating they see themselves as a glutton. Once you see yourself as a particular type of sinner, you will always have a problem with that sin. But if you will take your eyes off the sin problem and look to Jesus with eyes of faith and believe and confess that you are a new creature in Christ created for good works and then rely on that new life in Christ to live out through you, you will experience victory. The key is abiding in the True Vine.

So, if Christ came to make men righteous, how does one experience righteousness as a work of the Spirit? Is this supposed to be an experiential reality in our lives or not?

Is there such a thing as the transformation of righteousness in a believer?

I believe there is because without righteousness the glory of God will not abide among men. It is not enough to be "declared righteous" and to say we are "justified", there must be real fruit. There must be some manifestation of the work of righteousness by the Spirit in a person. Otherwise, there is no reality of Christ in our lives and we just continue down the "happy" road of deception.

As the Church today is praying for revival the words of the prophet still speak with clear direction.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God

Isa 40:4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

Isa 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

True believing leads to the inworking (sanctification) and the outworking of our faith (true works authored by the Holy Spirit).

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. John 15:14

Who are the sons of God?

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:14

Pilgrim

Thanks for the many replies, the encouragement, and the advice.

I have selected some of quotes from the post so far.

Quote: Every Truth that He's spoken, Satan has come up with a counterfeit for.

Your are correct, this is one of the reasons why I am posting on this thread, I want to be challenged by your replies.

Quote: Brother forgive me for being practical. But our walk with Christ is practical.

I am not a theologian myself and I am more comfortable doing practical things than theory. It’s important to have the theory correct but the far more important issue is the practical aspect of the Christian’s life and “how we walk in our day to day life”. How does Paul put it “loud clanging cympal”

Quote: We only can have one nature, It is impossible to have two natures!

Quote: We either have the nature of God or the nature of Satan. We have no independent nature apart from from one of them.

Okay I here what you’re saying, but from what I have been shown by Holy Spirit in my own life it points to this not being the case. You are free to challenge me on this come up with some scriptures and examples.

Quote: We have the imprints and patterns and memory of sin in this flesh and that is why we must renew our mind and choose life each minute of each day and not death.

Okay so we only have one nature but there are only imprints patterns and memory of sin.

What do you mean by patterns could I say “sinful habit” and it would mean the same?

What do you mean by a memory of sin? The bible says that “For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he” Pro 23:7 So can I say then if you think about a sinful act then I am a sinner?

What do you mean by Imprint of sin? Do you mean a distinguishing influence or effect for example something that causes you to sin.

Oh when the fire of temptation comes, you’ll soon find out what you are. Cry out to God “Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts” I encourage you people pray and seek for the truth. Can we say that “The Evil One has nothing in me” I know I can’t that’s a question you have to ask yourself and if he has how much does he have?
Quote: We either have the nature of God or the nature of Satan. We have no independent nature apart from one of them.

Well I could understand your point if you said we can be only influenced by God or the Devil but your saying more than that…

Scripture says “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live” Deut 30:19

God telling us to choose which means to me we do have an independent nature that can choose between blessing or curse. I choose to believe in Christ and would say that I sought for him, was the Spirit of God influencing me to seek for Christ sure he was but I had to make the choice. We are not automatons we have a choice, choose life.

Quote: So, if Christ came to make men righteous, how does one experience righteousness as a work of the Spirit? Is this supposed to be an experiential reality in our lives or not?

Oh you have me remembering about when I first found out that God was real and that he was alive and in me, oh how happy I was to be forgiven of my sins the rejoicing and the love that flowed into me. The change in this man was “radical” as was said at the time… That was my “experience” of righteousness to be in right standing with God and I knew it was real for me.

Quote: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 
Rom 8:14

Choices we all have to choose to be led by the Spirit, Jesus said take up your cross and follow me, we have to choose to lay our life down, Christ paid the price for Sin but we have to choose to pick up the cross and be led by the Spirit of God. Words mean nothing if it’s not a reality in your life. Paul the Apostle says “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me” Are you crucified with Christ are you surrendered fully to the leadings of the Spirit I know I am not…

Quote: The absolute saddest part is that The church does not know that when Jesus emptied Himself and walked this earth as man - He was what He has made us.

Quote: That we have ALL that Jesus had while here, within us now.

Jesus did not have SIN in him, not one spot of it he is perfect and he will always be perfect for us. I remember something very vividly from my days as a new Christian it was a truth I believe God wanted me to understand. God starts the work inside the man and works his way out, but men start from the outside and try and work there way in.

Gods says “I will put a new spirit within them” we have as Christians a new spirit and the work has started, but we must go on from there, there must be an overcoming of habits, wicked thoughts, envy, strife, lying cheating, all unclean thoughts must be banished, all and influence and effect must be gone until we can say “The Evil One has nothing in me.

We have already seen how the old man was like an unfaithful servant who allowed the thieves to enter the home. That old man however has been crucified, put off and buried. There is a new man now within us, who says, "Behold I have come to do Thy will, O God" (Heb. 10:7).

Yet we know that it's possible for a disciple of Jesus to sin. But there is a difference between a disciple sinning and an unbeliever sinning, just as there is a difference between a cat falling into dirty water and a pig choosing to jump into the dirty water! The cat hates the dirty water, but may fall into it accidentally. The pig, however, loves it. It's all a question of nature. The disciple of Jesus has a new nature that loves purity and hates sin.

The old man wants to sin. The new man never wants to sin. But if the new man is not strong enough, he may not be able to keep the door of his heart shut against the desires of the flesh. That's not because he wants those desires. No. But because he is not strong enough to resist them. This may be, because he has not fed himself sufficiently on the Word of God, or because he has not strengthened himself through prayer.

So, there's a difference between committing sin and falling into sin. It's important to know this difference; for we can then avoid a lot of unnecessary feelings of condemnation in our heart.

The Bible says that "the one who practises sin (that is, one who keeps on committing sin deliberately) is of the devil" (1 Jn. 3:8). On the other hand, he writes to believers saying, "If anyone sins (that is, if one falls into sin accidentally), we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He is the propitiation for our sins" (1 Jn. 2:1,2).

Zac Poonen

This an interesting subject because it deals with the reality of how we live out what we claim to believe, rather than just having objective truth, but not experiential truth. "Faith without works is dead". i.e. useless/ of no benefit. Objective truth MUST result in a practical demonstration of that truth.

Paul tells us in Romans 6
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin........... Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God."

Seems to me that Paul is saying that we need to understand what has actually happened to us in Christ (objective truth) and then apply this truth to our lives, because it is really true! BUT he does imply it is possible for a true believer to yield to unrighteousness and sin.

Hasn't some one written a book about mortification :)

Quote: """We only can have one nature. We are now a totally new creation.
Our old nature is crucified, dead and buried!!!
It is impossible to have two natures!

We still live in a corrupted body but our body is not our nature.

Our mind needs renewing but our mind is not our nature.

We have a new heart and Christ Himself living within us."""

Me too tuc; Amen

This body is not our future body.

Our mind is becoming future by being renewed to the mind of Christ.

Our Spirit is already perfect, now and forever, it is the Spirit of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip

Quote: Seems to me that Paul is saying that we need to understand what has actually happened to us in Christ (objective truth) and then apply this truth to our lives, because it is really true!

Amen and Amen

Romans 6:6, “Knowing this.”

And then in Romans 6:11 he says: 
“Likewise also reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God.”

Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.

That order is logical. First of all you have to know the scriptural fact. Then by personal reckoning you have to apply it to yourself. You have to reckon yourself to be dead indeed to sin. Then by an act of consecration you yield yourself unto God.

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Quote: We sin by choice. We're self-focused.

Your so right we are so self focused, my reason for posting JIG is simply this. I don’t want to remain self-focused, I want to get to the truth, I wan’t to know and believe it. It all started in Eden when Adam ate of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

The Soul became the master instead of the Spirit, the order was turned around instead of Spirit, Soul and Body we have, Soul, Body Spirit following our mind, will and emotions.

When God puts that new spirit in you the work has begun, your sins are forgiven, your justified and separated unto God, but we then have to “know this” that the old man is crucified with him and then recon ourselves dead to sin and consecrate ourselves to God yield to his Spirit… It doesn’t matter whether we know it or believe it it’s true. But knowing it and believing it is going to change you and me.

As you keep walking, trusting God, God in his goodness will get you to place to let you know your condition, he’ll show you and make you aware of that sin that remains because of the fall of Adam. God has made it very real to me.

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Quote: Yet we know that it's possible for a disciple of Jesus to sin.

Yes you are so right look at Peter he denied he knew Jesus, Judas he betrayed him.

Quote: The new man is not strong enough?

But why would the new man not be strong enough the word says “born again, not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, through the word of God, which lives and abides forever”

Quote: But if the new man is not strong enough, he may not be able to keep the door of his heart shut against the desires of the flesh.

The heart. If you study the word heart in the bible, you’ll find that it can described like this Mind, Will and Emotions thats what we also class as your Soul. This is the area we need victory in..

Now if you had said to me Spirit that would have been a different story, our Spirit is Born of the “incorruptible seed” the Spirit is the home of New Man.

The battle lies in the Soul, the Spirit wants control but the Soul is strong because Adam ate of the fruit, we had to put out of the Garden of Eden as “man became like god” Gen 3:22 and we had to be put out in case we ate the fruit of life.

We are like god to ourselves, we love ourselves, we put ourselves first, we are so self reliant, self willed, self self self.

In God's kingdom there is no place for self. There is only one cure and it’s the cross, “know it” “recon it” and believe it and yield yourself to God. That’s the key knowing it and believing it and yielding yourself to God is going to change you and me.

Christinyou,

I agree with you that our mind is not what some call our sin nature else why would God say to renew it with the Word. You cannot renew something that is inherently sinful.

I agree that our body is not our nature (sin nature) either. The body by itself is just a carton. We are told to yield our members (mind and body) to righteousness and not to unrighteousness. So, our body and mind are good and we are commanded to yield them to righteousness. They are neither unrighteous or righteous.

Our soul is not our sin nature otherwise why would God say to love Him with all of our soul. God does not tell us to love Him with all of our sin nature (soul). Our soul consists of our faculties given to us by God whereby we think, choose and express ourselves (mind, will, emotions). We express ourselves IN CHRIST, now. We are redeemed and sanctified by Christ.

Our spirit was dead in trespasses and sins and now has been made alive in Christ.

So we are joined to the Lord and are one Spirit with Him.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

That covers body (carton, vessel, temple), soul (who we are, personality, mind, will and emotions) and our spirit.

The apostle Paul refers to our “spirit, soul, and body” (I Thess. 5:23) being kept in blameless function until the coming of Christ.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Where is this human nature? Where did this concept come from?

So, Colin, Here is a word study on "Nature" and "Natural" from James Fowler and I am just going to post the link here for you rather than the content as I want to keep this post short. He shows where this concept came from (not Hebrew thought, but Greek thought) and how it was then introduced into Christianity.

A Word Study of "Nature" and "Natural"
http://www.christinyou.net/pages/nature.html

And then if you get through that word study, I think you would find "Towards a Christian Understanding of Man" very useful. http://www.christinyou.net/pages/understandman.html

These two studies corrected erroneous thinking that I had somehow received as "mainstream christian thought".

Blessings to you as you read and consider,
Pilgrim

Quote: These two studies corrected erroneous thinking that I had somehow received as "mainstream christian thought"

I had a post typed up but I will not post it as there's a far more pressing need... While I was looking at the articles you posted I checked out other teachings of James Fowler.

James Fowler “No independent self” An Attempt at Clarification
references Norman P. Grubb

Norman P. Grubb - It was mainly through the writings of Boehme that Mr. Grubb came to the belief that the entire universe consists of God's myriad forms of Self-manifestation.

Pantheism sees God AS the universe itself. He is not the creator of the universe, He IS the universe. Thus the universe is a manifestation of God, everything is a manifestation of God because everything IS God.

Please go back to the "mainstream christian thought"

Colin,

Fowler does not believe in Pantheism. And neither does Grubb.

This was a question asked to Grubb (who is on SermonIndex).

May-June 1981 Union Life Magazine

Q. Are you a Pantheist?

A. Again the answer depends on how we define pantheism. From the Greek I had in my English schooling, I remember that “pan” is the neuter case in Greek for “everything,” and of course theism relates to “Theo” (God).

In that sense it is ridiculous that any reader of a Union Life article could think that we who so totally center all in the Living Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we know the Father by the Spirit, could conceive of God as a thing, or as “everything!” Surely we give no grounds for any such suspicion. Rather we would actually say that by this definition of pantheism, every human not born again is a pantheist. Before we enter into a living relationship with the Father through the Son, our “god” is some kind of “thing,” whether that “thing” is our own fallen selves, or some earthly god, or possibly even our “religion.” All the unredeemed are pantheists, for some thing is god to them, some form of the “everything.”

But some people get nervous and even call us “pantheists” because we do believe in God as Spirit (John 11:24) as the Invisible One manifested by His visible forms (Rom. 1:20), as He who “fills heaven and earth” (Jer. 23:24), and as finally known by His universe as “All in all” (and thus known now by faith in His eternal changelessness). These are the terms commonly used of Him: omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He is love, light, power, and thus He must be everywhere. So in those realities we see Him and speak about Him as manifested in all His forms: the “Beyond in the midst,” the transcendent in the Immanent, the Vine expressed through the branches, the Head expressed through the body. The “whole human race lives and moves and has its being in God” (Acts 17:28). The pantheists would see Him as the forms; we see Him in them. We therefore come under the category of being “panentheists,” the all-important little Greek preposition en in that phrase meaning in. He in everything, not He everything.

A simple illustration is our human selves. We as persons are “spirits” contained in our bodies. No one mistakes us for our bodies! But because of our strong emphasis on God being manifested in all His creation, and because we call ourselves “see-throughers” rather than “see-aters,” it is inevitable that some non-understanding people will falsely label us as pantheists. Indeed we are in such union with Him that we are called by Jesus “the light of the world.” But He is that light in our form.

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Colin, we were all made in the image of God. I have no problem with how Grubb tries to define what he believes. I probably would not go that far and I certainly would not let it prevent me from reading some articles. But that's just me.

The author of the book "Rees Howells Intercessor" is Norman Grubb, the former secretary of of WEC (Worldwide Evangelisation Crusade) and the son-in-law of C. T. Studd its founder. But regardless of Grubb's accomplishments, why would anything that you perceive he might have believed dissuade you from reading a couple of articles I sent you?

So, don't get spooked at people falsely labeling these brothers and please take a look at those articles.

Pilgrim

Hi Colin,

Here is a short excerpt from Fowler who readily says there are some in the Union Life Movement who go to the other extreme of "No Independent Self". Fowler, in many of his articles comes out against Pantheism and Panentheism. I have not read that much regarding Grubb's writings. I will also say that I have not found any writer perfect, but have learned a lot from many, nevertheless. So read this to see how strong Fowler comes out against such things.

The False Thinking of Human Annihilation and/or Deification

Ever the extremist, willing to take any truth and transform it into a lie, the deceiving tempter has another falsity up his sleeve. If he cannot enslave people with the humanistic thought of human potential or Christian ability, he will push in the other direction toward pantheistic thought.

There are some in the "union life movement" who affirmed the "no independent self" of human potential and the "no independent self" of Christian ability, but proceeded to claim there is "no independent self" because "union with Christ" constitutes such a oneness with the divine that the human "self" is annihilated by absorption into God. Relational union with Christ is falsely equated with essential oneness with Christ, and that to the point of monistic merging into equivalence with Christ.

When the idea of "no independent self" is pushed to the extreme of advocating "no independent personhood" because there is "only one Person in the universe," the distinction between God and man, Creator and creature, that is intrinsic to Christian thought (as noted previously) is denied. Claiming to be so "one with Christ" that they are "no longer human," some have accepted this false thinking of human annihilation as the ultimate expression of "union life." Humanity is depersonalized or dehumanized by the alleged obliteration of one's independent human self, as it is replaced by Himself as myself. "I am He, and He is me," in the consubstantial equivalence of essential oneness, is the claim of these deceived monists. They try to hide their monistic pantheism behind the curtain of "panentheism," but their false colors are exposed.

Claiming to have the "single eye" that sees "God only," some have blasphemously declared, "When I see me, I see God. I see Christ. I am the third person of the Trinity." Should anyone "see" otherwise, they are regarded as not having the advanced spiritual sight to "see through" to God. To "see" them and what they do as anything other than a manifestation of God is identified as "seeing an illusion." Those who are not regarded as spiritual "knowers" and "see-ers" are seeing only the "illusion of humanness," "the illusion of carnality," or "the illusion of sin."

Enamored with their alleged essential oneness with God's Being, these spiritualists have little concern for the consistency of divine character in their behavior. Despising the word "sin," they often deny all possibility of expressing "self-for-self" character. "What I do is what He does. All I do is Christ in action as me, despite how it might appear." Even blatantly selfish and sinful behavior is regarded to be "God's expression as me" - another blasphemous indictment of God's character, that appears to be the apostasy of calling evil "good." Such a view of the mechanical inevitability of divine expression, claiming, "I am Christ, and Christ does not sin," is a form of perfectionism that presumes an integration into oneness with the Independent Self of the universe, to the extent that they function as God.

Whereas "law" served a purpose for revealing the fallacies of "human potential" and "Christian ability," it serves no purpose in this fallacy of equivalence with God. Convinced that they can do all things "as God," they are a "law unto themselves," flaunting their carnality and lawlessness with no regard for the character of God.

Though they use the phraseology of "no independent self," they have invested it with an entirely different meaning, believing they have progressed beyond being a dependent human self to operate as the Independent Self of the Godhead. This thesis entails a subtle denial of the distinctive objective realities of God and man - that God is the only Independent Self, and man always functions as a dependent self. Denying their human creatureliness, they claim to be co-creators and co-gods with God, impinging on the singularity of God's functioning only as Himself - What God is, only God is! At the same time they reject man's function as a "dependent self," having an intense disdain for the concept of "derivative man" wherein man always derives character from one spirit-source or the other, God or Satan. "God does not mean for man to have faith," they assert, for they seek to deny the necessity of the human choice of dependence in "receptivity of His activity." Satan's original lie that man could be "like God" in human potential has now become the delusion that "you are God" in the essentialism of divinization.

And he comes out strongly against Pantheism and Panentheism in the following:

Universalism: It's Forms and Fallacies
http://www.christinyou.net/pages/universalism.html

Blessings,
Pilgrim

Pilgrim my advice to you is this

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your soul. Jer 6:16

Fowler is promoting the very same doctrine as Norman Grubb.

Norman Grubb quote: The basis of our total truth, which we are taking to the whole church in the whole world, is that the human self has no nature of its own.

What about Christ? Where did he go? Why would such a thing be Norman Grubb’s “basis of our total truth” why would you have to take it to the whole world and what is this truth? “the human self has no nature of its own”……… ......Pilgrim you have swallowed the hook…

Fowler quote, No Independent Self "An Attempt at Clarification": "God is the essential cause of all things"

Fowler may say he is a Christian but his teaching points to Hinduism and Gnosticism..

Hinduism: Brahman is proclaimed to be the reality behind everything in this universe, the cause which sustains the effect.

Gnosticism: believies that the true God is separate from the physical universe however, there are aspects of the true God in the physical universe as well. Thus, "All-In-God"

Fowler is promoting the very same thing as Norman Grubb.

Norman Grubb is a typical example of countless others, who for whatever reason, struggled 
to walk by faith and unfortunately turned to Hindu/Gnostic ideas (mysticism) to experience a sense of spirituality and a feeling of belonging to God.

murrcolr,

You are taking quotes out of context and you defame brothers by doing this.

Fowler frequently writes against gnosticism, pantheism, panentheism, etc.

I have swallowed no hook, but thanks for your concern. If you don't want to read the articles I mentioned that is fine.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=15

Blessings,
Pilgrim

O Pilgrim, guard and keep the deposit entrusted (to you)! Turn away from the irreverent babble and godless chatter, with the vain and empty and worldly phrases, and the subtleties and the contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination for by professing it some have swerved from the faith 1 Tim 6:20-21.

"O Pilgrim, guard and keep the deposit entrusted (to you)! Turn away from the irreverent babble and godless chatter, with the vain and empty and worldly phrases, and the subtleties and the contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination for by professing it some have swerved from the faith 1 Tim 6:20-21."

Hello Colin,

From which translation is that quote taken? Certainly cuts to the core, eh?

Thanks for posting,
ws

From the Amplified Bible