Romans 7:6 -- What is Paul Saying?

Many, many Christians go around preaching that the apostle Paul did away with the law. That’s not true!

So once again, I will bring forth evidence from the Holy Scriptures that prove the point. One of such quotes is Romans 7:6

King James Bible
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

"that being dead" – translated from the greek word apothanontes ἀποθανόντες Traditionally translated "that being dead"

A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament by Gingrich and Danker, Page 91, shows this word is correctly translated DEATH PENALTY.

So, we are not dead to the law as many wrongfully suggest, Paul is saying that we have been freed from the death penalty that comes from breaking the Law. Our Messiah died to set us free from that death penalty.

So what should we do? continue in sin? by no means but now we must serve in the newness of the spirit. The "Spirit" being the Law.

1 John The Words that I Speak to You are Spirit and They are Life Eternal

The word "words" is translated from the greek word Logos, Hebrew word DABAR meaning 613 Righteous Laws of Yahweh (Look it up)

With that in mind, Romans 7:6 -7 correctly translated is:

But we are now freed from the death penalty of the Law in which we were held fast; that we might serve in the newness of the Spirit, not abolishing that which was written in the Law and the Prophets. -7- What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; (transgression of the Law), except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said Do not covet.

I am not your enemy, contrary! You can call me a lunatic if it makes you feel better, I'm used to it. I pray that you will also find the truth.

Praise Yahweh

Ephah, what must a man do to be saved? Without exegeting scripture can you tell us in a nutshell, in your own words? This is not to generate debate, but to crystallize your convictions for us all, salvifically.

What must a man do to be saved on his deathbed - or hangman's scaffold or electric chair, or gas chamber, for that matter. Thanks. --PaulWest --

Brother Paul, the Savior summed it up for us in simple language.

"If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" speaking of eternal life. Matthew 19:17

I can’t say it any better than he did.

The Messiah was murdered for teaching the Laws of righteousness and so was 10 of the twelve apostles. Why? for
what reason?

But yet our Savior commanded us to obey it. Don’t you wonder why? If it was useless, why would he spent so much time on this subject?

You know if anyone wants to keep the law, let them. But why bother when we have our Big Brother Jesus who kept it and by trusting in Him by faith I am counted as one who has obeyed the law, I am branded as a righteous man.

I don't know about you, but that is the better way.

I see. Some might contend that this was spoken to a man under the Mosaic law, bereft of the Holy Spirit, pre-Calvary

What do you make of these verses then?

Blessed are those who keep His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life. Revelation 22:14 (sounds like a prerequisite to me)

If ye love me, keep my commandments John 14:15

The scriptures are littered with these quotes.

I don't know about you, but that is the better way

It seems to be the better way because this is what we’ve been taught all our lives.

After the apostles were killed off, this teaching seized. There was no one to teach it. For 2000 years. That is the plan of Satan to destroy Yahweh’s work.

Our way is destroying the food supply, our way has created nuclear bombs and we’re getting ready to use it. Our way is going to destroy four-fifths of the population. Our way leads to death.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments John 14:15"

Not to ruin anybodys pet doctrine or the systematic theology of cults, but it has been shown repeatedly on this forum that the commandments that John captures in his gospel account and his epistles are in reference to the teachings of Christ, not the law of Moses.

It is so easy to see what Paul wrote in Romans 7 that a simple fisherman can get it - yet what a rock of offense to the unconverted religious. Dead to the law through the body of Christ - the law is the dead husband, Christ is the new. There is no moral obligation to what has passed, but 100% devotion to what is new. Yet how can a man die and be born a second time when he is already old??

If ye love me, keep my commandments John 14:15

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

When we come to faith in the Lord Jesus it's a result of this love, it pulls us to Himself, sins are forgiven, a whole new life begins and we love Him in return.

I don't love Him because this law says for me to love Him, I love Him because He first loved me then am I directed to love Him. This does not apply to the world because the world does not know Him, but we know Him.

Verse 22 says, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets".

This in essence is saying that when we love God with all our heart and love our neighbour as ourselves we have obeyed the whole entire law. How?

Because if you and I love God with all our heart we will not sin against Him or our neighbour, and this gets better through Christ because the law is not demanding that I be punished if I should fail to live up to it, Christ took the penalty of one who broke the law without breaking it, but because He became sin for us, the law came down hard on Him. When He died and went to Hades, He was like Abel who died unjustly His blood was crying from the ground for God to do justice and God released Him from the pangs of death because it was not possible for Him to be held by it because death hath no power over Him seeing that He was not guilty of the crimes to which He was convicted.

Lets see how far this goes.

Verse 22 says, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets".

This in essence is saying that when we love God with all our heart and love our neighbour as ourselves we have obeyed the whole entire law. How? by Approved

- MATTHEW 22:40 - ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

the word HANG is Strongs #2910 translated from greek {krematai} κρέμαται Meaning: DEPEND

Matthew 22:40 is saying that these two commandments DEPEND on the whole 613 Law. Without the whole Law, those two commandments are meaningless.

How can you say you love your neighbor when you're having an affair with his wife?

Yet the Law says: thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife. Deuteronomy 5:2

So loving your neighbor as yourself, depends on you not coveting his wife to begin with.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass nor am I trying to impress anyone, we should try to study the scriptures more closely, the deceptions are subtle, you won't see it. Why didn't they just put "depend" there if that's what the word means?

To deceive you. It's that simple.

the word HANG is Strongs #2910 translated from greek {krematai} κρέμαται Meaning: DEPEND

Again, if you want to obey the law in it's entirety have a go at it. I cannot follow you, for when I try to good evil is present with me and the very thing that I hate to do that is contrary to the law, I do. I have found that when I stop 'trying' to do good, goodness comes to me. When I stop 'trying' to find out God's ways, His ways come to me. When I stop 'trying' to understand His word, His word is revealed to me. I have come to understand that God does not need my help. He knows what He wants and when He does command me to do something He is not asking for my help, He is desiring that I obey Him so He can come closer to fellowship with me more than before.

You're right that that word can mean depend but you've got your Greek grammar backwards. It's the Law that depends on these two commandments not the other way around.

That word is translated exactly as "depends"
http://biblelexicon.org/matthew/22-40.htm

maybe you didn't read my comment:

How can you say you love your neighbor when you're having an affair with his wife?

Yet the Law says: thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife. Deuteronomy 5:2

So loving your neighbor as yourself, depends on you not coveting his wife to begin with. Not the other way around!!

Thanks for participating.

Again, if you want to obey the law in it's entirety have a go at it. I cannot follow you

which of the laws is hard to keep?

Do not commit adultery.Leviticus 18:20 -
-is this impossible to obey?

A man must not have sexual relations with his brother’s wife.
-is this impossible to obey?

A man must not divorce a woman he married after having seduced her.

How about this one? is it impossible to obey?

Do not curse parents or teachers.Exodus 21:17

Which one of these laws is impossible to obey??

But there is no power to be righteous by keeping the Law.

hulsey, are you sure about that?

The laws of Yahweh is perfect, RESTORING THE SOUL; The testimony of the Yahweh is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7

Restoring the soul? you mean the Law can do that?

All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.Psalm 119:160

Surely you're not smarter than King David are you? the Law itself is righteous!

He who practices righteousness is righteousness, just as He is righteous; 1 John 3:7

You're not calling John a liar now are we?

Did you get that brother? you are going by you're feelings, your feelings will get you burned. Believe in the prophets.

Brother Husley, you are ignoring all the scriptual facts that I have posted in this thread.

You are going by what you've been taught since infancy. Look at the facts, Paul will never teach against what his master the Messiah taught and preached. That in itself is an anamoly. I've shown you some subtle deceptions that are present in our current tranlsations. The majority of this world have fallen for these lies according to Rev. 12:9

The Messiah and all the prophets of old taught us to keep the commandments, but the Christitian world says NO! Paul said we don't have to. Assuming that is true (which is not), who woud you obey, Paul or the Messiah?

Don't you see this mindset doesn't make any sense? You can follow your heart, but you can't deny these facts.

Have you ever lied?

I'm more curious if he's suffered a witch to live. If he's kept the law, and has not, I'd be curious where he lives. I'm sure the police would be as well.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. --mguldner

Do you observe the Feast Days? Do you keep the Sabbath as instructed? Do you celebrate the new moon? Why do you put up this quote when you have no understanding of what it means.

Your Sunday school teaching will get you burnt. Study theses verses both Greek and Hebrew, compare translations and lexicons to see what the underlining message is. You don't have to be a scholar, the information is there.

I'm more curious if he's suffered a witch to live. If he's kept the law, and has not, I'd be curious where he lives. I'm sure the police would be as well. --EverestoSama

Do you think it’s wise to question the validity of what the Creator has ordained. If the Creator issues a command, who am I to question why? If the Creator says “do not permit a witch to live, how dare you ask why? Don’t do these things brethren, don’t do it!

I wasn't asking why, as I'm well aware of why this law was given. I'm asking whether or not you keep and currently carry out this specific commandment.

Paul said we don't have to. Assuming that is true (which is not), who would you obey, Paul or the Messiah?

For one thing Jesus was born UNDER THE LAW we are not. All that Jesus spoke of concerned the kingdom of God which was coming (at Pentecost)Romans 14:17. Jesus was not in the kingdom that he was saying was coming. The change was not made at that point. Matthew Mark Luke and John are still in the Old Testament, under the law.

Though Paul was born under the law, he was born again in the Kingdom of God.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Now if the law could not be performed through the flesh because it being weak, how say you that we can obey the law?

How was Jesus able to obey the law? He was not weak as sinful men like we are, He came in the likeness of man, without the blood of Adam. He was able to carry out the requirements of the law.

Now that He fulfilled it's requirements, why do the legalist's require that we obey it seeing that we cannot?

Jesus said, if a man just looks over another woman and undresses her in his mind, he's already committed adultery in his heart. Or what about the subtle thoughts that enter our mind when someone is being successful we think, "I wish I had that".

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

We live under a different umbrella these days, we don't have the Sanhedrin breathing down our necks and dragging us into the court room while shop keepers are selling sharp rocks to the crowd outside waiting for a good stonefest. We don't have that today so we can say all we want about keeping the law or not keeping the law.

But if we were under that system, THERE IS NO MERCY under the law. If the law is broken, it demanded the penalty to be carried out, no mercy was granted.

Under the wonderful world of Grace we find redemption from the bondage of the law because Jesus was able to fulfill the law and meet all it's requirements.

Do you hear that? The law is not demanding anything from us anymore. We've been translated from the kingdom of darkness (which by the way is the kingdom of law keeping through the flesh) and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son (which means we've been set free from the responsibility of law keeping). The Old Covenant requirements has passed away behold all things have become new.

Now IF, I like that don't you? 'IF' we sin we have an advocate with the Father who is quick to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. He is the law personified. That is why He is called the Mediator, the Advocate, our Lawyer. So that if and when we do sin, the law cannot come after us demanding that we be put to death, Christ has staid it's hand to condemn because the law cannot condemn Christ seeing that we are now in Christ, we are bone of His Bone, flesh of His Flesh, spirit of His Spirit.

Brothers and Sisters may I have your ATTENTION, this man Ephah needs our attention. Whether he is here to cause trouble or be a thorn in our side of the grace and liberty that we all enjoy in Christ Jesus or he is a genuine seeker for the truth. He like everyone else that has gone before him, even our beloved Paul the Apostle who needed divine revelation to see the grace of God because He was zealous of the law, needs to see the cross to which Christ accomplished in our stead all that was required that we could not do being so weak.

Before Paul was converted he was contentious, no doubt he argued with Christians that he was taking off to jail. But I can see those same Christians praying for him.

Let us look at Ephah as Paul today dragging us before the law demanding that we keep the law, arguing with Christians as he dismisses each one as a heretic, let us pray for Paul that he see the light as he did on the road to Damascus. He never saw the Ten Commandments, he never saw Moses, he never saw anyone around him, all he saw was a bright light and a voice speaking out to him.

That is our prayer for Ephah that he see the light and that he hear the voice of the Son of God.

God Bless Beloved.

Brothers and Sisters may I have your ATTENTION, this man Ephah needs our attention. Whether he is here to cause trouble or be a thorn in our side of the grace and liberty that we all enjoy in Christ Jesus or he is a genuine seeker for the truth.

I’m not forcing anyone to observe or obey the commandments.

The Savior and Apostles including Paul I may add were murdered for teaching this same thing. I don’t have that kind of power to make you do anything, I'm merely pointing out the not so obvious facts.

Simon Kepha standing down, I’d like to thank you all for participating in the debate. Lots of great points.

The Savior and Apostles including Paul I may add were murdered {/quote]

Hello again dear friend

Just wanted to share with you that Jesus wasn't murdered. It is true that the pharisees wanted to murder Jesus, but were not in fact able to do so. On one occasion Jesus told them plainly that they wanted to kill him, to which they replied that He was mad for saying this, and forcibly denied the charge. In the very next verse we read after this discourse they did indeed attempt to murder Jesus. "He walked from amongst them" The truth is that they were not only unable to murder Jesus but didn't even have any authority to put him to death according to law.

Jesus laid down His life. Do you understand the difference. If it had been possible to murder Jesus as you 'shockingly' claim, then He would not have been the Son of God at all.

Consider this profound reality my friend. When everything that could have been done was done to put Jesus to death, by a Roman authority, Jesus gave up His spirit to the Father to keep and then died. He was not murdered. When will you stand still long enough to reflect on your understanding.

I know. You thought you had got rid of me. I love you though and I wont be got rid of. This too is authority.

Jesus said "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. I have the authority (power) to lay down My life and to take it back again. Jesus was not murdered.

Andrew