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Why are so many Christians not getting Healed Today?

R
rbanks

Matthew 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Matthew 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.


Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Acts 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

I didn’t bring out the many scriptures where Jesus mentioned things like “oh yea of little faith” and “because of your unbelief” and “if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed” and “have faith in God” and “only believe” and “all things are possible to him who believes” etc…

Why can’t many believe for their healing as much as their salvation? I believe according to the scriptures that Jesus healed all that came to Him so why can’t many get to him today and received their healing in Christ. Is it because of our lack of faith and obedience?

2 Chronicles 16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.
2 Chronicles 16:13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

I must say that the scriptures concerning Asa has also caused me to think more seriously to what is God trying to say to us in light of Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

We are in a battle brethren and I believe we must humble ourselves and draw nigh to God resisting the devil with all of our faith in the Lord confessing our sin and weakness before God putting all of our faith in the Lord on the ground of the blood that was shed for us and the stripes that He bore for our healing. I am not saying that we should never go to a doctor but I am saying that according to your faith then so do. What I am saying is that it seems to be whatever you claim to have faith in God for- then you better act on it or otherwise you will suffer the consequences. We who have experienced so much from God will be required from God. God is a jealous God and will not help us when we need it if our loyalty and faith is not in Him after he has done so much for us. It seems to me that God wants to be sought after for Himself and every need that we have. We should rather die believing in God than to live in unbelief.

Just meditating…blessings to all from brother rbanks

A
AbideinHim

One of the best books that I have read on healing outside of the bible is "Christ The Healer" by F. F. Bosworth.

What makes this book so valuable is that Bosworth builds the basis of healing on the solid rock of God's Word.

In this book, Bosworth lists many reasons why Christians are not being healed. I would like to share some of them with you. Of course, he goes into great detail on each one of these points, but I will just give you a brief outline.

1. Insufficient instruction - Ignorance concerning the healing power of the gospel,.

2, Some fail to receive their healing because of unbelief.

3. The healing part of the gospel is hindered and even made void by the traditions of men.
A. One tradition is that God is the author of disease.
B. Another tradition which is responsible for thousands dying prematurely is the teaching that we can glorify God more by remaining sick than by getting healed.
C. The most common threadbare tradition is the worn out statement that the "age of miracles has passed."

4. Some do not receive their healing because of the breaking of natural laws.

5. Some are not healed because of the unbelief of the elder or minister who prayed for them.

6. Some are not healed because their affiction is the work of an evil spirit that must be cast out.

7. Some fail to receive healing because they regard iniquity in their heart.

8. In this Laodicean period of the Chruch lukewarmness is one of the great hindrances to healing.

9. Sickness and afflictions are permitted to remain on some as a halter, with which God leads them into the center of His will, and when this has been done, He removes the halter.

10. An unforgiving spirit or holding a grudge, hinders some from receiving the Lord's healing.

11. Wrongs unrighted hinder the faith of some to receive healing.

12. Some have no purpose and no diligence when seeking God for healilng.

13. Some wax weak in faith by watching their symptoms.

14. Others fail to receive healing because the do not act their faith.

T
TMK

I recently heard a message by Andrew Wommack and he was making the point that many are not healed because they tolerate not being healed. We are too complacent when we are sick, instead of rising up in faith and battling the illness, even with great anger if necessary.

I have struggled with this topic over the last few years, and I waver back and forth. I have settled in on being satisfied that the topic is a mystery. There is no magic formula and no true rhyme of reason why some are healed and some are not.

However, I do believe, from some personal experience, that it is more effective to command sickness to leave by the authority of Jesus than simply praying to be healed.

R
rbanks

Thanks brother Mike for responding with a great post from an excellent book on healing from the scriptures.

I do not believe that God gets any glory out of so many dying with sickness today. I believe it is greater glory for people to receive healing from our wonderful Lord Jesus.

I believe the Lord is grieved over the many who are sick and not receiving healing but is delighted to heal all who would come to him in faith and obedience.

Blessings to you...from brother rbanks

R
rbanks

Amen TMK!

The bible says to resist the devil and I mean we better be willing to fight against the devil and all his destructive ways.

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AbideinHim

Thank you brothers for making some good points conerning healing. It makes me sick to see so many good men and women going home early because of wrong misconceptions concerning healing.

Watchman Nee has an excellent teaching in the last section of "The Spiritual Man". This teaching deals with divine healing and overcoming death. He is saying the exact same thing that you brothers are and that is that many Christians are passive when it comes to sickness and disease and accept it as being God's will. Just as salvation is appropriated through believing faith, healing is acquired in the same manner.

Mike

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Trekker

7 "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure .

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak , then am I strong."
--apostle Paul, 2 Cor.12: 7-10

R
rbanks

Amen brother Trekker!

I love 2 cor. 12:7-10 and have rejoice in it many times but notice how He said that the power of Christ rested upon him and that when he was weak then he was strong.


The apostle Paul didn't die on a sick bed brother he was martyred for his faith in Christ.


Blessings...from brother rbanks

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Trekker

QUOTE: "The apostle Paul didn't die on a sick bed brother he was martyred for his faith in Christ."==RBANKS


That's right, he didn't die a on a sick bed because he was martyred FIRST.

Also...


20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.--2 Tim. 4:20

H
hmmhmm

so why can’t many get to him today and received their healing in Christ. Is it because of our lack of faith and obedience?

This may be true in many believers lives, but we can never judge that since we can not measure another mans faith. But two men can have the same faith, faith that pleases God and one being lead to raise someone from the dead and the other to be sawn asunder... both being full of faith and walking in Gods will. So I believe some can be healed through faith, others may not be healed. Only God knows, I would just add that we be cautious when we judge who has faith or not if God choses not to heal someone.

In theory god can allow someone to be sick with a fatal decease, we see that as an awful and horrifying loss, and it fills us with pain and sorrow. but through Gods eternal eyes this sickness may deal with that believer in a way spiritually that prepares him in a perfect way for eternity and that way is the best for his eternal wellbeing.

In scripture we are commanded to pray for the sick so we should and we should have faith and hope towards God to hear our prayers, but our ways are not gods ways, we see not as He does.

S
sermonindex

As someone who was healed of pulmanory fibrosis, an incurable disease, I can relate my own experience. The doctors told me that the disease was not curable, and that the fibrosis was irreversible. I had stage three of a stage four disease and stage four was lung transplants. They told me that I could have many years if I went on high doses of predinisone, 60-80 mg per day, but that the steroids would , over time, be possibly worse than the illness but that there was no choice. I took the prednisone for two weeks and one morning the Lord spoke to me, He basicly said " there is another way," and asked me trust Him. I knew exactly what He was asking and decided to follow His direction. I told everyone that I was coming off the medication and putting my life in the hands of the Lord, my wife and the pulmanory specialist were the hardest people to tell. To cut a long story short and I have shared the testimony before, three months later my mother called me from Scotland and told me that the Spirit had spoken to her and that the Lord was going to heal me. Two days later I went to the specialist and my lungs were clear, the disease was gone, that was 18 years ago.

Two pricipals I took from that. 1. " Do what He tells you to do," from John 2 and " love not your life unto death." And so, I believe that we see so little healing nowadays because we choose to trust doctors and their ways. Now, I am not against doctors and over the years I have had several surgeries and I take blood pressure meds and so on, but I am just not sure that the Lord is willing to share His glory with anyone. And often times treatments from doctors work and often times it does not. When it works we say " thank God for the miracle," and when it does not we say many things. I guess if we follow what He tells us to do, not conventional wisdom, we can never go wrong and we may see many more miracles...........bro Frank

R
rbanks

Amen Christian I agree that we are not to judge others and we cannot know another man’s heart. This is not the purpose of the thread but only to understand the word of God concerning healing. I have tried to stay with the scriptures as best I understand them as the Spirit leads me and also bringing glory to the Lord Jesus Christ our healer.

Amen brother Frank on your testimony that truly brings glory to God. This is the purpose of this thread and also the many scriptures in the gospels of people getting healed was according to their faith.


Mark 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.
30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?
31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.


Notice how Mark brought out that she suffered many things of many physicians and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse. When she heard of Jesus, oh praise the Lord, notice what she did and how eager she was to touch just a piece of His clothes and the faith she had in her heart and the confession of her faith in the Lord that she would be well. Immediately the blood dried up and she felt it in her body that she was healed. This is an awesome testimony!


Brother Frank your testimony made me think of her testimony.


Blessings…from brother rbanks

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ADisciple

Hi Banks, I agree with you that these days the Lord doesn't appear to be healing to any great extent, at least here in the western world. Far too many of God's people are sick these days, including myself.

Not too many decades ago there were many healing evangelists on the scene; this has for the most part dried up now.

What is the problem? For one thing, I believe God has something greater in mind than healings by the great evangelist that comes to town. I believe He wants healing to be a function of the body of Christ among "ordinary" Christians. But do we see this to any great extent? I hope the present situation causes us all to be seeking God earnestly about this.

But in my estimation the main concern is this. There are so many who need healing these days. But what do we seek? Healing? Or, the Healer?

I believe the answer to the present state of things lies in our need to see the Healer--not way up in Heaven-- but present in our midst. Then we will see the healings we need and long for.

I think that's our greatest need. We have so little of His Presence in our midst these days.

Allan

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Dlight

Amen brother Trekker for the scriptures you provided.

Whereas I agree that there are many who do not receive answers because of little faith as pointed out in this forum, I believe it is inaccurate at best to say that this is the reason many believers continue to suffer with disease.

We experience sickness, hurt, disappointment, need etc. because we live in a fallen world. But God uses all these situations in the life of a believer for His glory and to conform the believer more and more to the image of Christ, whether it be through instant healing or allowing us to experience a "thorn in the flesh" for a season.

Please, let's not come to the conclusion that sickness cannot be used to glorify God. The scriptures tell us that God Himself suffered the Apostle Paul to have a thorn in the flesh for his own good, so that he would not be puffed up with pride. To human wisdom, the thorn in the flesh appears to be a hindrance, but in God's ultimate plan, it is a restrainer of sorts.

Historical Christians and the fathers of the faith like David Brainerd rejoiced in infirmity, and believed that whether it be through healing or suffering, God's Will will be done in their lives. This view of "if you're not receiving healing then is may be that you're of little faith" started with the prosperity gospel and is a very recent doctrine. The same gospel teaches the same about acquiring wealth, happiness, worldly success etc. I tell you, it crushes the faith and hope of many a believer.

My dear friends, let us reconsider, and remember the sovereignty of God in all situations. Yes, let us, like Paul, pray fervently for healing, but let us also rest in the fact that God is sovereign, healing or no healing and that His Will will be done in the life of the believer.

R
rbanks

Amen brother Allan and it’s good to hear from you and it’s also been a while since we share on a thread and I’m glad you did. I agree with Jesus being the main one we are to look to in faith.

I also believe God is looking for a person who will consider the cost and give up everything including his life and his own will to be used by God to minister the way Jesus did during His earthly ministry. I see the apostles operated in the gift of the Holy Spirit doing miracles because they had given up everything to be all and do all that Jesus apprehended them for.

1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

Acts 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

Acts 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Acts 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.


Blessings…from brother rbanks

S
sermonindex

Dlight says..........

"Historical Christians and the fathers of the faith like David Brainerd rejoiced in infirmity, and believed that whether it be through healing or suffering, God's Will will be done in their lives. This view of "if you're not receiving healing then is may be that you're of little faith" started with the prosperity gospel and is a very recent doctrine. The same gospel teaches the same about acquiring wealth, happiness, worldly success etc. I tell you, it crushes the faith and hope of many a believer."

Amen to that. I have spent almost 20 years speking against that kind of " faith." That is one of the reasons that I do not mention the healing too often. I would rather focus on doing what the Lord tells you to, that small still voice, being led by the Spirit. The Lord has also greatly prospered me , but I would very rarely mention that because of the horrendous nature of the prospertiy gsopel and the word of faith movement. Yet in all things there must be balance, why would we let the devil rob us of speaking a testimony to the glory of God?

I would like to add for balance, I have suffered from chronic pain for 18 years. As a stonemason, I fell from the scaffold and herniated 3 discks,two in my neck and one in my lower back and they told me that I had degenerative disk disease, arthritis and sciatica. In the last five years I have had both shoulders operated on. I am sure the name it anc claimers would have a lot to say about that, but my Lord tells me that His grace is sufficiant for me. So, whether I live or whether I die, whether I am healed or whether I am not, whether I am rich or whether I am poor, whether in pain or pain free I will praise the Lord, I will be content. So the simple principals are, obey the Lord, praise the Lord. Speak when He says speak, go when He says go. Perhaps the crisis of the age is a lack of the presence of God in the life of the believer and his ability to hear that small still voice? ..........bro Frank

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sermonindex

The LORD seems to be healing just as many as ever, from all the reports that I receive, but at the same time, we mustn't judge, as He also is taking some Home.
I was just doing a study on these verses below - though I'm not finished yet, I think we'd do well to also consider that there are some of us that like Paul, would rather depart and be with The LORD and some that He is taking Home for a 'good' reason and not re-ignite what others have promoted about "illness" from the Hagin/Copeland gang, that brought untold guilt where there shouldn't have been. I used to care for the sick, from age 16 and since 2002 have met very many Christians, through forums for the disabled and in person, like Joni and Friends, that some of these ideas that people have of them are hurtful and unfounded.

These are the verses the LORD has laid on my heart again today ...


Isa 57:1,2 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness.

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Psalm 12.


From "The Treasury of David" by Spurgeon on Psalm 12:1 - Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

“For the godly man ceaseth;” the death, departure, or decline of godly men should be a trumpet-call for more prayer.
They say that fish smell first at the head, and when godly men decay, the whole commonwealth will soon go rotten. We must not, however, be rash in our judgment on this point, for Elijah erred in counting himself the only servant of God alive, when there were thousands whom the Lord held in reserve. The present times always appear to be peculiarly dangerous, because they are nearest to our anxious gaze, and whatever evils are rife are sure to be observed, while the faults of past ages are further off, and are more easily overlooked. Yet we expect that in the latter days, “because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold,” and then we must the more thoroughly turn from man, and address ourselves to the Churches' Lord, by whose help the gates of hell shall be kept from prevailing against us.
“The faithful fail from among the children of men;” when godliness goes, faithfulness inevitably follows; without fear of God, men have no love of truth. Common honesty is no longer common, when common irreligion leads to universal godlessness. David had his eyes on Doeg, and the men of Ziph and Keilah, and perhaps remembered the murdered priests of Nob, and the many banished ones who consorted with him in the cave of Adullam, and wondered where the state would drift without the anchors of its godly and faithful men. David, amid the general misrule, did not betake himself to seditious plottings, but to solemn petitionings; nor did he join with the multitude to do evil, but took up the arms of prayer to withstand their attacks upon virtue.

T
TMK

Did Jesus ever inflict someone with sickness to "teach them a lesson?"

Heb. 1:3

R
rbanks

I understand what you are saying Frank and I too suffer from many afflictions. I have also experience the Lord’s touch and deliverance from many things. I still believe to let God be true and every man a liar and that all of our justification must be in the Lord.

I have come to an understanding that just because others have abused the word of truth does not mean that we must let it hinder us from believing all the word of God. Take for example the abuse of the prosperity preachers and the word of faith preachers concerning how they don’t rightly divide the word of truth and also promote materialism and lead people into covetousness, greed and false hope but even though they do this, I refuse to let it hinder me from believing the promises of God.

I truly believe in denying myself and taking up the cross but I also believe that Jesus is the greatest Love and the greatest lover of all time throughout all eternity. I believe all His word and promises and if I am not walking in all His truth then the problem is with me and not with him. I believe that he shall supply all my needs and even bless me with more than I could ever deserve. I believe that my sickness brings him glory when I learn of Him and endure it with faith in my heart that he knows the way that I take and that I believe it brings Him greater glory to believe and receive healing from Him.

I believe to some extent we have “what we except in our heart of faith to have” and the difference is our faith in Him. I believe this is what Jesus preached all through the gospels and this is what the apostles preached and lived “that without faith it is impossible to please God”. I feel like much is being lost today because we are more concern with the doctrines of men than in just reading, meditating, and reciting the pure word of God. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God and doctrines of men can sometimes water down our faith to believe all that he has said. I think, although some would deny it, that many times we are afraid to trust God for everything but there must be a building up of our faith in the Lord to trust Him fully and this can only come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

We should love all the miracles that Jesus did in the gospels and shouldn’t try to down play them at all but should read them over and over letting faith arise in our heart. We shouldn’t love to see people suffer more than we love to see people healed and blessed. Jesus didn’t love to see people suffer sickness because if he did then why did He heal all that came to Him.

Blessings…from brother rbanks

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sermonindex

Did Jesus ever inflict someone with sickness to "teach them a lesson?"
Jesus no, but God certainly does.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand.

Lamentations 3:33 For He doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

When He does afflict us...

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Chastisement can come under many different umbrellas including sickness as in the case of Hezekiah King of Judah. His chastisement caused Him to repent and he received restoration. Others He leaves to refine them further as was Joseph in prison for several years. Prisons can come in many different forms. Franks prison is being in a body wracked with pain, the great thing about his testimony is that he has learned to praise God through it.

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sermonindex

"I understand what you are saying Frank and I too suffer from many afflictions. I have also experience the Lord’s touch and deliverance from many things. I still believe to let God be true and every man a liar and that all of our justification must be in the Lord."

Amen Rbanks.......... bro Frank

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ginnyrose

This question dogs any who are well aware of Jesus' healing of the sick as well as the disciples. We are also aware how this happens with surprising frequency in places where spiritual darkness rules. The Holy Spirit uses divine healing to validate the message by God's servants who work to minister to their needs there. Many times these people are far removed from medical help and death appears certain unless there is some supernatural intervention.

This is what I wonder is why we see so little supernatural healing in the western world: we have at our disposal medical assistance which can speed recovery of whatever ails you.

As we look to the future and the ominous potential for a breakdown in the availability of medical help, I wonder if perchance we will not see more divine healings occur. What if you cannot afford professional medical help, what would you do? Maybe, just maybe, this will turn out to be a blessing in disguise? Once we know that medical help is beyond our reach, God may intervene. As long as we think we can help ourselves God cannot help us.

(Oh, I am not in perfect health either. I am waiting to see how or what the LORD will have me do...)

My opinion...

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rbanks

Good post ginnyrose!

I’m going to go out on a limb and I know some will misunderstand me but that is the risk I’m going to take anyway instead of playing it safe. Please read all the post in context before jumping with something out of context.

Can anybody tell me the difference from fighting in prayer against the sickness, meditating on the word of God and seeking God with all your heart with fasting and confessing your faith in Jesus as your healer than in spending all your money on doctors and also trying to find the best doctors money can buy hoping that some doctor will be able to help you or to cure you so you can get well.

I say that because I have heard Christian people criticize more the one who is depending on God instead of the doctors than in the one who is depending on the doctors instead of the Lord and when someone dies after going to all the doctors we praise God for healing him by taking him/her home but if someone dies for totally trusting in the Lord then they are a fanatic and the Lord didn’t get the glory for healing them because they refused to go to the doctor.

Do you see the difference they both died but the one who depended on the doctors we can sympathize with him/her better because we understand that they were doing all they knew to do instead of just trusting in the Lord only because we are not suppose to go overboard believing in God because he gives us common sense.

This is why I believe that the person who God uses to do miracles will be the one who is sold out and has died to this world and trusts in Jesus alone with all his heart at the risk of being called a fool and everything else. Jesus said that He who seeks to save his life will lose it and that we must completely lose our life in Christ in order to have abundant life. A man who is still afraid to die can’t do much for God but a man who is dead to every other voice but God’s voice will see the supernatural workings of God.

Before anyone jumps on board to stone me, I am not and would not tell anyone not to go to the doctor because many don’t have that kind of faith and have not been filled with the Holy Ghost to believe God to do the miraculous. I can only speak what I have seen and heard from and cannot speak or have faith for anyone else because each person must have his own faith walk with God.

I have prayed for the sick and been to the hospital to visit the sick many times and I have seen God heal people and also have seen people die with a sickness. I have seen people have tremendous faith in the Lord and others struggle believing. I would never tell someone not to go to the doctor because that is between them and the Lord but to those who believe that God may want you to suffer and not get healed why are you going to the doctor to try and get better. I believe a lot of the times that people go to the doctor because they want to get better and not suffer from sickness or why else would they even go anyway if it is not to help you.


Blessings from brother rbanks

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sermonindex

The problem is, Brother rbanks, is that we refuse to empty ourselves of ourselves and become like little children that don't know a thing. We don't practice John 10 and KNOW The Voice of The GOOD Shepherd.
If we would just stop our own 'thinking' and look up to Him and ask what He wants us to do, minute by minute, then He'll guide us to where or what He wants us to be doing.
We could be ready for bed and The LORD say, "No, get dressed and go out your door and pray."
Do you know what I mean?
As long as we're running on our own ideas and own thinking rather than listening for Him, like the helpless flesh that we are - He won't be able to use us. We won't have our ears open to hear what He wants us to do.
That's all He's waiting for and that is THE problem with The Church in this present age and why we're autonomous failures to even our own communities. We want to do "something big" but we want the glory for it.

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ginnyrose

rbanks,

I understand what you are saying. I also am adamant about not challenging those who are quick to run to doctors - this calls for another thread, don't you think?

On the other hand, there is expense involved. How can one justify spending horrendous amount of money for treatment that promises no cure, but only prolongs the dying process? Ok, you say you have insurance, but someone is paying premiums, is that not true? The money does not grow on trees that can be readily plucked...

Consider kidney dialysis - have an idea how much this costs? Our daughter-in-law works for a center that does this. Her job is to work to find funding that will pay for this procedure...most have it done three times a week. Know how much money that takes? $3000 per treatment. So, if you need three treatments a week this will take nine thousand dollars a week! and this does not take into account the money needed to pay for meds. Or, how about a heart transplant? Got an idea how much that costs? A relative of mine said her sons' cost a million dollars...

Let us get real...we are going to die, sometime. Why prolong the process when the end is certain, cannot be avoided? Are people so scared to die they will use your insurance premiums, the gov money to postpone their meeting with the Almighty?

R
rbanks

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and pray for me that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ may abound to me with all wisdom and faith to seek God for himself alone and for his glory alone.

My prayer is that I will continue to seek His face to be and to do of His good will and that I will never get complacent but always be pressing toward all that Christ has apprehended me for and to be able to always fully minister under His anointing and leadership. I pray to decrease and Christ to increase. I hope to always learn Christ and be able to truly deny myself and take up my cross to be full of the Holy Spirit to be able to minister in the power of the Spirit to see God’s people set free according to the scriptures.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

I appreciate all on SI and I understand how difficult these days are but when I seek the Lord in the spirit through His word there is a faith that rises up within my heart that causes me to believe that I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me and that there is nothing God can’t do or won’t do for His people who love Him and are the called according to His purpose. May all experience His grace, love, and power.

Blessings…from brother rbanks

T
tobity

Well, because we're all humans. Humans are born mortal beings, consequently they get sick and recover, others get sick and die, or get healed and then grow old and eventually die.

Mortality has its drawbacks. :(

S
sermonindex

Trying to explain again, what I was getting at in the post above with a question - Where are the gifts of the Spirit that should be operating in the Church that define 'what' we are dealing with when trying to help people? - such as, "the word of wisdom" - "the word of knowledge" And "discerning of spirits".

I see a "one size fits all" remedy that's crept into the church just a bit over 30 yrs ago and these wisdom gifts that can only come from the Shepherd of the Sheep, The Only One Who knows what exactly is going wrong with a person are being neglected.

I see more pat answers and the same answers over and over from the same people consistently. This is a crime against a Holy GOD that loves all of His creation.
Imagine going to a Dr that gives the same treatment to all of his patients without finding out what is truly wrong with them? That's what I see happening out there.

I've experienced two excellent pastors in my lifetime and they had three things in common - not that the first is necesary but it doesn't hurt and is also a gift from GOD. Both were intelligent - both were compassionate and both looked to GOD to give them wisdom on how to care for each individual individually. No pat answers. No pat solutions. No pat diagnosing or judging. Just a dependency on those gifts above = His Voice.

When you see so many hurting or oppressed souls getting the same pat-answer-solutions for decades that they'll only further hurt by - it does begin to grieve you because you know that if the person would have depended on His Wisdom and not their own, their "ministry" to the hurting wouldn't hurt so many of those they give their one-size-fits all diagnosis and remedy to.

We need dependence on Him more than ever. More will be having problems of all sorts and if one doesn't stop trusting in themselves and start seeking HIS knowledge and wisdom on what the root or cause is of what's afflicting each human distinctly and how to bring healing these fellow human beings, they'll continue to bring more harm than good and continue to bring discredit to a GOD that desires to speak and work through His Church for HIS Glory.
The book of Acts is not filled with pat-answers to every problem and neither are the stories of how Jesus dealt with people, in the Gospels.
We need to desire to hear and Know His Voice when dealing with people that are suffering in 'any' way and one doesn't get that from "reading a book" or following a certain teacher - it Has to come straight from HIM alone. Each individual needs individualized help from GOD, because only HE has known them from the womb.

Too many quacks claiming to be in a ministry that are hurting far too many helpless victims and it should never be allowed but all we can do is pray that, as He's shaking all that can be shaken - that He'll shake these one-size-fit all "ministries" to their knees in humble dependence on Him for their "ministry" to the hurting. Amen!

P
pilgrim777

The gifts of the Spirit never operate apart from the fruit of the Spirit and if there is no fruit, then there is no real abiding taking place. If there is no abiding, then there is no holiness. That is quite a few important things that are missing for one to be expecting miracles.

It takes faith to receive from God and all the previously mentioned things are referring to a life of faith and righteousness.

Pilgrim

S
sermonindex


Submission to GOD without the fear of men.

Art Katz was accused of not displaying the fruit because he had to tell things as he saw them - just as Jesus, His Apostles and His Prophets did in our Bibles - but we've created synthetic fruit or plastic fruit.
The fear of men and the desire for self-glorification is what keeps us from hearing His Voice or looking to hear Him for direction or ministries or preaching, and so forth.
I've watched men change what they've said from minute to minute because someone didn't agree with them. I've seen them cow-tow to obvious enemies of Christ - those who are dilibrately twisting and cursing His Word although they claim to have once followed Him. The fearful will let these types curse GOD and bow down to them out of fear alone.

I see all the great men through-out His Word have the most child-like dependence/submission to GOD and yet possess no fear of men.
They knew the difference between being polite out of fear of being rejected and being tender because GOD showed them the very heart of whom they were speaking to that needed comforting words. There's an eternity of a difference between those two minds.

R
rbanks

I hear and feel the heart of what you are saying in your last 2 posts Ann and I thank you for sharing.

Here is something I thought of in 1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.


Doesn't it seem like Paul was saying that we are to desire spiritual gifts as we follow after love for the very purpose of edifying the body of Christ and to comfort them. I believe we should be desiring gifts out of love for God's people. We need the gifts for the church and our desire for them should not be for selfish reasons but we need to get desperate for the missing gifts of God for His body of people.

Blessings...from brother rbanks

S
sermonindex

Amen, Brother rbanks. First we get a glimpse of Him and find that His love is so powerful - just as His Holiness. A human being couldn't take the full power of these two but once we've seen Him, that love will never leave us and we find that that is what He is and that everything that He does is from that Love - from why He created us and everything that He does to and through us.
It's not always mushy-gushy, as you know, but the heart aches with compassion beyond what is merely human, when He has given us a taste of how His loves 'feels' for others.
I'm so very glad that you put that first - because it is.
When ministering, we're feeling what the person we're ministering to feels and His compassion rises up inside and that is how it all begins.
I don't believe in seeking the gifts but seeking to be a totally empty vessel, that He can pour Himself through. Only He knows what 'gift' is needed in each situation. He said that 'the works that I do, you will do also' - so we just want to be emptied so that He can fill and out-pour what is really Him in each event with each person we come in contact with.
Some limit GOD to just one or two 'gifts' when those were just listed to give folks a running start of understanding on a human level what is possible to them that believe that the King of the universe literally indwells us... but when Paul describes the gifts - he does say - "as He wills" - which doesn't limit anyone to just being used in one or two but to walk as Christ did, is to not see individual gifts but seeing Him working His Life out of a piece of clay and why I feel so strongly to repeat about emptying ourselves of ourselves as much as possible and having our eyes singularly on Him as the author of everything that we even so much as think. Letting His thoughts replace ours, etc..
He wants so badly to reach the world through us in the very same way that He demonstrated when He was here in the flesh, being our Example.

Amen - no flesh will glory in His Presence - without Him, we can do Nothing - but we need to see it's All of Him so that we don't limit here, but just let Him work to His Own Glory. We need to get out of the way, knowing we're useless unless He does His work through us and not limit what He will do through those that believe that He wants to live His very Life through us, because He came into us to use us for whomever He sends our way or sends us to - otherwise He'd just take us Home.

Thank you, Brother Rbanks. We look to the Giver and than He uses us in whatever 'gifts' are needed in each situation - no limits. Amen!

R
rbanks

Amen sister Ann on an excellent post! It is amazing on how much we agree.

God bless you sister!
your brother in Christ...rbanks

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