If its ok to drink alcohol as achristian then does that mean i can take and open a bottle of budweiser at church , or spark open a can of beer at the housegroup , If its ok to drink alcohol then as much as its ok to drink soda at church n housegroup then should i not be able to drink alcohol. I dont beleive for one second Jesus Created something that if we took too much of it , it then could cause havoc in our life do you? , And the wine that jesus created was non alcoholic , in order for wine to be alcohol it has to be boiled and have sugar added, The wine jesus sope of was the fruit of the vine. And in the verse where it was said why did you leave the best till last , I know many times befroe i was a christian when i got drunk even if i was handed non alcohilc beer or wine, if i was t drunk i wasnt able to tell the difference . There is no way the wine My Savior created was alcohol. I hear people say in moderation , well in that case it must be ok to smoke pot in moderation or take a hit of heroin in moderation. This being able to drink alcohol and as long as you take it in moderation is a lie from the pit of hell.When i came online to look for the book sipping saints i saw this website and i had to join as i felt the Lord to tell me to join and write this when i saw the somments on christians drinking alcohol.
in regards to drinking alcohol as a christian
be not drunk with wine but be filled with the holy spirit
paul exorted the christan ., wye would he exort a christan not to be drunk on a fruit juce unless the fruit juce called wine had the potenial to get one intoxacated
there was alchol in wine ,and enough if one didnt watch it,to get one drunk wiich was disipatation sin
the called jesus a wine bibeler ,for the fact that he did drink a wine that contained an alchol content
drinking or eating anything in the church meeting was prohibited by paul the apostal ,,he said quote dont you have houses to eat and drink at ,
for the sake of shaming the poor christan who had not
and for the sake of being a stubling block to weaker christan who thought you should only eat herbs and vegatables,,,and others who thought you should not drink wine ,,,,he said dont be a stumbling block ,regarding your liberty ,,,
so according to scripture one is forbided to eat and drink wine in the chruch ,and in the presence of certaint believers
gods child it would be respectfull on your part ,that you intraduce your self befor rebuking the brothers and sisters in sermon index ,noing that paul said to timothey ,rebuke not an elder ,,,there are elders in here who may have a different view
maraijwana ,,,is a verry different drug ,and is never used in moderation ,,,one or two puffs on a joint is gone passed moderation
sister wine can be made from just chrushing the grapes,,,and with out the adding of yeast or sugar ,,in a few days ,to a few weeks ,you will have an alcohol wine
grapes contain all the sugar needed ,and even a natural wild yeast is presesnt on the skins
sister with all respect ,,,you have not read the scripture properly before posting ,,the lord did not ask you to post this about wine with out knowing the scriptures ,nor how wine is made ,,,,,,,god bless you for you zeal
blessings
ps god created food ,,and if you eat to much it is as bad as geting drunk ,,its all glutony to much food or grap juce ,,or wine ,, to much sport , to much fishing ,to much shoping ect ,,,,,its all sinfull
Ah, moderation indeed.I don't believe for one second Jesus created something that if we took too much of it , it then could cause havoc in our life do you?
Well Brother, have you considered obesity? God created food for us to enjoy, but look at us today. We are fat, bloated, health problems galore. People are having heart attacks and stroke, diabetes is on the rise and all this due to poor eating habits.
"I don't believe for one second Jesus created something that if we took too much of it that it would cause havoc in our life".
Moderation is key.
And the water that Jesus turned into wine was wine. The point of the story was an allegory, He was showing that the New Wine of His Spirit (the holy Spirit) will be poured out to all men, to the whomsoever will. Jesus went further in saying that you don't put new wine into old wineskins. Why? because the old wineskins are not strong enough to hold the pressure. We as wineskins need to have a new spirit within us in order to hold the power of the Holy Spirit when He comes in, else it will kill us.
What you'll need to do is come to grips with what is written and what your not able to receive. If your not able to receive that Jesus turned water into wine, leave the matter alone and walk away from it until understanding does come.
Jesus is not encouraging men to drink wine, your missing the point of the story. However if men drink wine it is not a sin if he give thanks in the sincerity of his mind to do so. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Some can partake having faith to do so, others cannot and we must respect those that cannot. Obviously you cannot and we as the body of Christ must respect that. Just for the record, I do not drink myself. However, I know believers that do and they do it respectfully and discreetly not wishing to offend any weak brothers mind.
First welcome to the forum I see its your first post here. If you haven't already you should check out the rules and guidelines of the forum. :)
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13
Second, did you know that everything in this world without restraint can kill you? If you drank too much water you could actually die? Or if you only ate carrots and ate them excessively they would kill you?
Did you know that many use marijuana to ease pain rather than use heavy pain killers? That of course is in moderation.
That many people drink a shot of vodka or a glass of wine to help with tension and heart problems?
Do I personally drink? No, but its not forbidden by Christ Jesus or Paul infact Paul advised Timothy to drink a little wine to help his stomach problems.
I would like to add this topic hasn't been brought up for a while now. Perhaps what you have written is a copy paste job because saying this is an indication you haven't really studied or saw a post that sincerely concerned you enough to join. Many people join to push an agenda which is something heavily frowned upon. I do hope you are serious about fellowshiping and learning from the resources and mature brothers and sisters of this site.
And the wine that jesus created was non alcoholic , in order for wine to be alcohol it has to be boiled and have sugar added, The wine jesus sope of was the fruit of the vine. And in the verse where it was said why did you leave the best till last , I know many times befroe i was a christian when i got drunk even if i was handed non alcohilc beer or wine, if i was t drunk i wasnt able to tell the difference .
Welcome to the forum!
Regarding your comments above, if I'm drinking Welches grape juice, even the most ignorant sinner would not accuse me of being a 'wine bibber' and they did Jesus. While people would like to draw confusion into this verse, there is none.
Again, welcome to the forum!!
Alcohol was stumbled upon by Noah. Yet he is called a "preacher of righteousness" in the Scripture.
The wedding feast was a real wedding feast and the wine was real wine. How else could Jesus have been accused of being a 'drunkard'.
I have heard a number of pastors, in my youth. preaching that Jesus did not manifest wine from water so as to be able to get drunk on it. This is said, no doubt to protect the flock. However, it does require one to change the meaning of Scripture to press it on the hearer.
The meaning of drunkenness in the Scriptures is 'dissipation'. Which means to pour out the truth to no good effect. Or to make ineffectual the truth which is already possessed. Alcohol is nothing of itself unless you become drunk on it. Whether you or I drink or not drink, is a matter for ourselves. It is a matter of judgement. It may even be a matter of obedience to God's calling in our lives.
I am sorry that you received an instruction regarding elders. There may be many elders on sermonindex, but the ground of their authority is local. However, their is authority over sermonindex which cannot be ignored. This is the way it is. I don't think that those who have authority here are really concerned about a new poster 'instructing' others over such a small matter. You said that the Lord put it on your heart to join and to post. Well that's the way it is then. Who can argue with that. What you get out of obedience may not be agreement, but another more perfect understanding. Only you can tell.
Noah wasn't seeking to make alcohol, but he did by chance. I imagine that he didn't share the recipe though. In his day there were enough problems without adding drink!
Be encouraged and you will no doubt give and receive a blessing from above.
Andrew
Re-Posted with a better attitude.
Paul instructed Christians to use a little wine for the sake of their stomachs and often infirmities. Where did you get the info that the wine Jesus or Jews made contained no alcohol? I have heard that before but have never heard tell where it came from.
Personally i don't drink any alcohol whatsoever, and neither did my godly Christian grandmother. But i do not judge Christians who have a glass of wine at dinner or a glass of beer now and then, as long as they don't get drunk.
QUOTE: "Alcohol was stumbled upon by Noah. Yet he is called a "preacher of righteousness" in the Scripture.
The wedding feast was a real wedding feast and the wine was real wine. How else could Jesus have been accused of being a 'drunkard'."==amrkelly
AMRKELLY, i know what you meant in your quote but just to clarify just in case anyone else might not know:
1. Jesus was never drunk
2. People can drink wine at a wedding without getting drunk, if they limit themselves; just because Jesus made wine for the wedding does not mean He was giving an ok to drunkenness.
3.Noah got drunk by accident and that was before the Law, just as having multiple wives was overlooked before the Law of Moses was written.
Not to mention the typical Jewish wedding feast lasted 7 days and the entire community was generally invited. The family ran out of wine and this would have been a huge disgrace to the family so Christ spared the young couple of social embarassment by providing more than enough wine for the rest of the festival while at the same time showing us the beauty of the New Wine to come.
John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, [then they serve] that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
Anyone who has ever drunk an alcoholic beverage and has had a few will immediately refuse a drink that doesn't have alcohol in it unless he needs to sober up. But when your at a party like these guys were, it's every man's intention to have fun and more the merrier. If Jesus were to serve "Grape Juice", He would have insulted His guests.
This is a wonderful story, it's too bad we only highlight this one area about wine, and I know why. It's because there is a lot of people that have been delivered from alcohol and drugs and to see Jesus make wine through a miracle is hard to comprehend. I sympathize with you all. Therefore it's better to leave this section alone until your strong enough to understand it, and in time you will be strong to understand it.
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. [one firkin is 210 gallons according to wiki]
I like this. Here Jesus being our High Priest is performing the law right at His own party, 'after the manner of the purifying of the Jews.'
The symbolism of the new wine that Jesus is offering here is to purify and cleanse, this new stuff is Himself, saving the best for the last which is poured out for you and I.
There is freedom but as Paul said, “Yes, I have freedom to what I will but God forbid that I should make another stumble taking part in my freedom” (paraphrased by me).
We need to know that my freedom might be someone else’s trigger especially if they see me (a Christian) taking part in this said freedom. There’s a higher calling my friends, so what’s it going to be: your precious freedom or being a servant?
God bless,
Lisa
Lysa said:
" There’s a higher calling my friends, so what’s it going to be: your precious freedom or being a servant?"
This is truly the word of the Lord that you shared Lysa. Are we our brothers keeper?
In Christ -Jim
AMRKELLY, i know what you meant in your quote but just to clarify just in case anyone else might not know.
Thanks for that Trekker. I used 'stumbled' rhetorically not figuratively.
I have given up this 'freedom' many years ago. Just to agree what Lisa said. I once preached in a city for five years and found that I came across many men drunk. They were all in a truly sad condition, almost destroyed by drink. One particular man became my focus for a while. I would passionately tell him that drink was destroying his life. He listened. I was blessed. A few weeks later I was having lunch in a Public House and decided to have a small glass of beer with my lunch. This poor man came into the Public House as well and seeing my beer was cut to his core with shock. I too was cut to the core. I never saw him again. For me there is no more liberty on this issue. Others have to judge according to there own effects.
"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."
"For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
"It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."
"Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth."...........................
Wine and alcohol can be very addicting, and some people are terribly susceptible to becoming addicts; the American Indian culture for instance, never built up any resistance to alcohol in the cultural gene pool. Many die of alcohol related disease and incidents. I come from a long line of addicts from my Scotch/Irish/Welsh/German bloodline. We like our beer.
" The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."
It is Biblically acceptable, but not unto drunkenness on a personal level, nor is it acceptable if it stumbles your brother or sister in any way; So, I think it is fine, but should generally be done in private, and guarded, lest a weaker one, or even a recovering alcoholic should fall by your example. Currently, I am abstaining for spiritual reasons.
Also, Paul's admonition to Timothy, to use wine as a medication "for his often sicknesses" is very clear. It is not forbidden; Stumbling and sin are.
This topic always seems to get a fair amount of consideration. The concern stems from the supposed stumbling block cast before the young (new) believer. Though it is an impossible possition to defend dissipation and who fearing the Lord would ever trym should we not be more concerned with the greater issue that is allowing for the building of a foundation upon righteousness that cmes by way of restriction of food or drink? By not dispelling this error are we not party to affirming a righteousness that does not originate in Christ? If my righteousness comes by my restraint of drinking alcohol, then may I abstain all the more from soft drinks and tea so that I can gain an even greater standing before the Lord that comes by abstention. No Christian would ever defend the placing of a stumbling block before a young one whose love for the Lord would result in their conscience being grieved by a brother or sister who seemingly places another god before Christ.
Maybe their is still a deeper issue that stems from dissipation? Maybe gluttony might serve as an example as to how this action would cause a weaker brother or sister to stumble? In the knowledge given the believer by virtue of scripture, we know that if God feeds the smallest and most insignificant of animals, will He will supply for one made in His image? What gluttony brings to light in the life of a believer is the questioning of God's provision. Though God has made provision now, can He be trusted to supply in the future? The testing might not be more than one meal away. So the testimony of one who stuffs himself beyond what is a healthy intake is exposing a lack of Faith for the Lord to do as He has promised. Mathew 6:26
One has no choice but to make the wine Christ partook of or converted from water into a fresh unfermented juice or they will be guilty of making Him a breaker of the very law which they wish to uphold. This would make Christ not only a wine bibber, but a fermentor, and supplier as well. If we take this catagory and apply a similar reasoning to dissipation, we should find ourselves at the same root which stems from a lack of faith of God's provision. Not that the wine will run out so one must drink all that they can while it last (that once again is an issue of gluttony) but rather, once one loses control of themselves, can they then testify that the Lord is in control of their life? How do they testify that their life is His and no longer their own if they recklously give it to the god of this world? That says," I don't trust that God is in control, and since I cannot trust that God is in control, I must make my temporary escape.
How vast the number of liberties that can be layed before the new believers as stumbling blocks. I don't believe we have yet begun to consider the possibilities.
Jim wrote:
Are we our brothers keeper?
To a certain extent, I believe we are brother. We cannot dictate and lord over people so they always make the right decisions but when it comes down to laying aside our "flesh" that our freedoms do not trigger their bondage's, then yes. Does that make sense, I'm writing this on the fly.
Most of us (Christians), living in America has given us (me included) an air of entitlement (i.e. my rights, my freedoms) and I'm learning that God wants us to lay down our rights and trust Him. Am I perfect at this? LOL Far from it but I see which direction I'm headed!
God bless you,
Lisa
GodsChild73 If its ok to drink alcohol as a christian that does that mean i can take and open a bottle of Budweiser at church
Sometimes I have to open a can of Bud to get through some of the stuff I see on TBN. Last night after 5 minutes of Kim Clement, I needed a shot of Tequila. :)
Sometimes I have to open a can of Bud to get through some of the stuff I see on TBN. Last night after 5 minutes of Kim Clement, I needed a shot of Tequila. :)
There is a power button you know? I don't watch TBN anymore can't trust them after that healing rag thing I bought didn't work... lol jk ;)
There is a power button you know? I don't watch TBN anymore can't trust them after that healing rag thing I bought didn't work... lol jk ;)
I know, I guess some of us just can't get enough punishment. :)
I may have a glass of wine with a meal (or a coconut margarita at one certain Mexican restaurant) on occasion, but I will only do it in the privacy of my own family. If I think we may run across someone I know who has a problem with alcohol, or if we are with someone I even think may have a problem with it (even if they would say its OK, no problem), I would not. Generally, I'll have a drink on occasion that me and my wife are on a date alone or every once In awhile with the wife & kids. If it became a problem for me, or a place of stumbling for others, I would not drink at all.
It seems that we all have many questions concerning our behavior as Christians. Can I do this or that as a Christian? So, we usually ask our brothers and sisters what is acceptable to the Lord and get a variety of answers, many of them being contradictory.
God is going to speak to us through His Word and the Word of God is very clear concerning many issues, but some matters are ambiguous. So what do we do in this case?
God has given us the Holy Spirit to dwell within us to lead us into all truth. If we are sensitive to the Holy Spirit then we will know inwardly what to do in every situation. The Holy Spirit will lead us and guide us if we have a tender conscience and are teachable willing to deny ourselves. We must have a heart that is set on obedience. "Not my will but your will be done." If we love the Lord with all of our heart we will keep His commandments, and God has written His law in the hearts and minds of every born again believer. Pastors and teachers are gifts to the Body, but there is a Teacher that lives on the inside of us that will lead us by the anointing if we allow Him to. I love this story by Watchman Nee on the inner witness of the Holy Spirit.
"I went, late one summer, for a prolonged period of rest to a hill-resort where accommodation was difficult to obtain, and while there it was necessary for me to sleep in one house and take my meals in another, the latter being the home of a mechanic and his wife. For the first two weeks of my visit, apart from asking a blessing at each meal, I said nothing to my hosts about the Gospel; and then one day my opportunity came to tell them about the Lord Jesus. They were ready to listen and to come to Him in simple faith for the forgiveness of their sins. They were born again, and a new light and joy came into their lives, for theirs was a real conversion. I took care to make clear to them what had happened, and then, as the weather turned colder, the time came for me to leave them and return to Shanghai.
During the cold winter months the man was in the habit of drinking wine with his meals, and he was apt to do so to excess. After my departure, with the return of the cold weather, the wine appeared on the table again, and that day, as he had become accustomed to do, the husband bowed his head to return thanks for the meal but no words would come. After one or two vain attempts he turned to his wife. 'What is wrong?' he asked. 'Why cannot we pray to-day? Fetch the Bible and see what it has to say about wine-drinking.' I had left a copy of the Scriptures with them, but though the wife could read she was ignorant of the Word, and she turned the pages in vain seeking for light on the subject. They did not know how to consult God's Book and it was impossible to consult God'smessenger, for I was many miles away and it might be months before they could see me. 'Just drink your wine', said his wife. 'We'll refer the matter to brother Nee at the first opportunity.' But still the man found he just could not return thanks to the Lord for that wine. 'Take it away!' he said at length; and when she had done so, together they asked a blessing on their meal.
When eventually the man was able to visit Shanghai he told me the story. Using an expression familiar in Chinese: 'Brother Nee', he said, 'Resident Boss* wouldn't let me have that drink! ' ' Very good, brother', I said. 'You always listen to Resident Boss!' Many of us know that Christ is our life. We believe that the Spirit of God is resident in us, but this fact has little effect upon our behaviour. The question is, do we know Him as a living Person, and do we know Him as Boss '?"
'Resident Boss'-The author's own rendering of Ii-mien tang-chia tih.-ED.
AbideinHim...We usually ask our brothers and sisters what is acceptable to the Lord and get a variety of answers.
Which is a mistake! Jesus died for our sin/sins, right? I think I will go to the person that can wash away my sins, not just give an opinion, that's more than likely going to be based on their personal lifestyle, or walk.
quote
I may have a glass of wine with a meal (or a coconut margarita at one certain Mexican restaurant) on occasion, but I will only do it in the privacy of my own family. If I think we may run across someone I know who has a problem with alcohol, or if we are with someone I even think may have a problem with it (even if they would say its OK, no problem), I would not. Generally, I'll have a drink on occasion that me and my wife are on a date alone or every once In awhile with the wife & kids. If it became a problem for me, or a place of stumbling for others, I would not drink at all.
quote
I haven't read this whole thread but this disappointing to read. Paul said that if eating meat offended by brother then I would eat no meat as long as the world stands.
How do you know when you go to a public place who is going to see you at anytime and knowing the lives that have been damaged and destroy by alcohol and how do you know your kid might say one day I can drink in moderation like daddy and end up addicted and destroying his life and others.
Oh, that Christians who talk the talk would walk the walk. Oh that Christians would get filled with the Holy Ghost to overflowing and they wouldn't want to touch the stuff.
Blessings...from brother rbanks
Paul instructed Christians to use a little wine for the sake of their stomachs and often infirmities.
Actually Paul did not instruct Christians to do that, he was personally instructing Timothy because apparently Timothy had some sort of issue. That passage is inspired, but it was not written to all believers for all time. It was written to Timothy from Paul, in a very personal way.
I do drink red wine, my cardiologist recommended it after my heart attack as part of my medical regimen.
My wife and I are friends with a couple where the husband is learning the craft of wine-making. He is getting very good at it, and there is nothing wrong with going to their house and enjoying a bottle of his wine with them.
Do I flaunt it? No. I dont drink in front of people who I think might stumble in their walk. But I'm not going to cover it up either because thats being deceitful.
This falls into the category of Christmas, Easter, not working on Sunday, etc etc... it's a matter that needs to be decided by the believer with the prompting of the Holy Spirit. For many it violates their conscience to have a glass of wine. To them I say: Dont drink it!
There are those who can do it with full freedom. To them I say: Just consider your weaker brother before yourself.
And both parties need to not judge one another.
I dont beleive for one second Jesus Created something that if we took too much of it , it then could cause havoc in our life do you?
Then you do not believe the Bible, my friend. What do you do with this passage? John 1:3 "All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made."
You are actually coming close to blaspheming God because you are saying that Satan has the power to create. You are calling Lucifer a creator. Lucifer has never created anything... ever... Period.
Krispy
By the way... my spider-senses tell me this was a hit-&-run thread. Someone signs up, posts something like this, and then sits back and watches the chaos unfold.
Krispy
hi, i wish to make it very clear that i hate drunkedness for my own mother was a fall down drunk for over 25 years of my life and it was awful to be a part of.saying that; i see no where in the bible that wine is forbidden since the alch. is the purifier of the water and happened naturally in the fruit in just a few days. i give freedom for anyone to have a glass of wine around me and if i think it would be offensive to them i would join them in a few sips.
jimp
I had an uncle that lived his life a drunkard and committed suicide a little over a year ago to avoid going back to jail for DUI.
I also know full well the effects of drunkeness. But like Jim, I love truth.
Many people are gluttons, and suffer the effects of it. I still eat food.
Krispy
Rbanks,
Do you ever eat meat in public? If so, what if someone might possibly see you who might possibly be offended? Some may be offended of a woman wearing pants. Does your wife ever wear jeans/pants in public? What if she might possibly see someone that might possibly be offended by it? I think this needs to be run through the filter of what Paul was/wasn't saying, prayed upon, and lead by the Word of God with the Spirit of God to help us understand. If not, we can "tithe of our dill, cummin, etc...& miss the weightier measures of the law".
If my wife wearing jeans offends a brother/sister we know we will be around, we will pray and avoid offending them. If we get into what might possibly at any time offend anybody and avoid it all - well, put away all your tea/coffee, any meat at all (some say we can't eat animals God created), jeans, shirts with any emblem on them, any alcohol, all makeup, wife cant cut her hair at all ever, etc.
We can use wisdom to pray for the Holy Spirit to help us understand these scriptures discernibly. If not, you should avoid ANYTHING that might possibly offend ANYONE at ANY TIME that you may run into at Wal-Mart who might be offended. If you have/are doing that - do it unto the Lord and I will not judge you but pray you are blessed. If you are not, you don't even meet your own standard by your interpretation of these passages. So I would be careful/cautious in judging others in this respect for having a glass of wine on a date between husband/wife. I get what you're saying and may God bless you for it, but i would stringly advise you to just be slow to judge another in this matter.
God Bless - Jeff
You know what offends me? Offended people.
Seriously tho, we are confusing offending someone the way Paul meant it, and the way it's meant today. He doesnt mean someone is upset by something, or judging someone.
He's saying we should not do something that might cause a brother to fall into sin. I dont drink in front of most people because there could be a weak Christian who struggled with alcohol... they see me drink... assume it's ok for them and the next thing you know they are back in the bottle.
My wife wearing make-up is not going to make someone stumble. Actually it might cause someone to stumble and fall down on the pavement because she is very pretty... lol....
If someone is judging me because I'm wearing a Skynyrd t-shirt with the sleeves cut off... thats not the same thing as causing someone to take a drink who should not do so. One man is offended because he has time enough on his hands to worry about my t-shirt... and someone who follows my example, but for him it's a sin.
Make sense?
Krispy
Each one should pray and be convinced in his own heart. I mean, some think it's offensive (& could even possibly make someone stumble) if I kiss my wife in public, though we are married! I might not kiss her in front of someone i knew it may bother, but I'm not going to stop kissing my wife (unless the Lord tells me Himself tells me to) altogether outside of the bedroom!!
Now, I wouldn't wear a Skynyrd shirt Krispy, cause I wouldn't advertise for a group of guys who sing about illicit sex, drugs, fighting, drunkenness, and all that goes with rock n roll. I say that as an ex-rock drummer. That actually could make a weaker brother stumble cause he could go back to listening to that worldly music seeing you wearing it like it was ok. And, if you feed your spirit that music, you will eventually lose something spiritually and feed your flesh accordingly. I just had to comment on that. Feel very strongly on that. Sorry bro', just keeping it real! :-)
Now, I wouldn't wear a Skynyrd shirt Krispy, cause I wouldn't advertise for a group of guys who sing about illicit sex, drugs, fighting, drunkenness, and all that goes with rock n roll. I say that as an ex-rock drummer. That actually could make a weaker brother stumble cause he could go back to listening to that worldly music seeing you wearing it like it was ok. And, if you feed your spirit that music, you will eventually lose something spiritually and feed your flesh accordingly. I just had to comment on that. Feel very strongly on that. Sorry bro', just keeping it real! :-)
I was just using that as an example...
Change that to a sleeveless Carolina Panthers shirt. Even that could cause someone to sin... cause them to be jealous of my guns...
Krispy
Man! I might need a beer after reading all these posts. :)
By the way... my spider-senses tell me this was a hit-&-run thread. Someone signs up, posts something like this, and then sits back and watches the chaos unfold.
Brother Krispy I guessed that at the beginning of the thread and the silence of the original poster basically confirms it for me. Your spider-senses are likely correct but I was definitely interested in seeing what the OP thought about all of these posts about moderation. A big hint for me though was the person said they felt the Lord lead them to join after seeing the forums discussion on alcohol when we haven't discussed this topic in quite a while.
KrispyKrittr...Change that to a sleeveless Carolina Panthers shirt. Even that could cause someone to sin... cause them to be jealous of my guns...Krispy
I have a few jealous of mine, I have a.40 Beretta...40 Glock 23...Marlin 30/30.035 Remington...Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm...etc..O time to go! Joel and Victoria is on TBN I will save you a seat. :)
what about our weak brothers and sisters who had sexual adictions iv been told by ladies that men look verry sexual when they wear cut off sleavs in shirts and singlets ,,,should we risk being a stubling block to some weak sisters ,,or should we encourage the roaming lustfull eyes of the poor unregenerant sexual provotave ladies ,and young girls ,,,,,,,i wont wher posable where cut off sleaves iN public ,,iv been told by my wife that even her friends have been lustfully atracted to me
brothers if you wont where it in the pulipit ,then brothers dont whare it in the public mission field
i think that same is easly said about sisters wharing singlets and skimpy shirts low cut around the breast
and skirts ,that show of her glory , that only her husbane and father should see
this walk with christ ,is not about ego ,and self asteam ,,and pride
if ya grand ma ,and grand pa ,wont ware it ,,bin it lol
they nomaly have finished SHOWING OF THERE GLORY
what about our weak brothers and sisters who had sexual adictions iv been told by ladies that men look verry sexual when they wear cut off sleavs in shirts and singlets
I always thought it looked re-neckish... but what is a singlet? I am quite certain I have never, nor will ever wear something called a 'singlet'.
I agree we should all dress modestly. But at the same time, we can get too carried away with it too, to the point of ridiculousness. I think the spirit of what Paul was saying was the same as what he said about living in peace with others. He said, "As for as it is possible..."
We do the best we can to not cause others to fall into sin... whether it be meat, or lust, or alcohol... "as far as it is possible". As far as it depends on us.
There is responsibility that falls onto the believer who struggles with lust. A woman can dress in a burka and some dude out there is going to find it lustful.
Krispy
yea im hearing ya krisspy
you no brother regarding the issue about eating meat and that being a stumbling block ,,,i think the contex is meat offered to idols ,,which was extremly common back in the early chruch ,,,paul talks about that in the leter to the corinthians ,,,rather then the issue about vegatarians being offended at people who eat meat
the churches were full of exidolarters in the earlys days ,,,,not so much now
blessings
It seems we Christians get caught up in the light matters instead of the heavy matters. I worry not whether a person drinks or not, what I worry about is that they are born again and that their lives reflect the transformation that the new birth brings.
We look at 1 Cor 6:9-10 as a guide of how we must act as a Christian but I see that Christianity has set me free from the power of all these things and as the Holy Spirit gets hold of me these things will drop from my life.
Our outward actions will eventually reflect our inward transformation and the character of God will be revealed in our lives.
being a stumbling block and causeing a weak believer to sin ,,is no light matter,,, a verry weighty matter,,,to the point even our lord mentioned it in his teachings
but never forget that the holy spirit uses cruched weak imperfect vesles to exort and teach his chridren weather they be light or weightyer matters
i dont worry eithet weather someone drinks or not ,,,,but as we learn we see scripture has much to say about wine
paul said ,,deacones should not be givern to much wine
and that biships should not be givern to any wine
what does it mean to be givern to a little wine in the contex of a deacon
and what does it mean to not be givern to any wine
these are newtestament comands from the mouth of the holy spirit ,,,so we should seek to know exactly what the spirit saith to the churches
he who has a mouth let him speak
and hear who has ears let him hear
im all ears ,,,if an elder would like to define these verses that paul wrote about
ohh ,by the way welcome to the fourm mailmzm
brother dont worry about me ,,,,he set me free from a abominbale life stile throuugh the supanature power of his spirit
i agree fully with what your saying the holy spirit and our actions
blessings
An article on Should Christians Drink Alcohol with a number of typical questions answered.
http://www.pentecostalpioneers.org/christiansalcohol.html
The book Sober Saints is coming soon...
I read it quickly (Should Christians Drink Alcohol) and hit the highlights... nothing new here. Just a lot more wordy than normal.
Thats not to say I disagree with the whole thing, I dont. But it started out with the old argument that "wine in the Bible is grapejuice"... and thats patently false... and has been proven false. The wording in scripture even proves this to be false.
Fact is that while there have always been sects of Christianity that have avoided strong alcoholic drinks, it was not until the Temperance Movement prior to Prohibition (which was a collosal failure) that wine and "lighter" beverages were frowned upon by evangelicals. That was only 100 years ago. We still feel the effects. Europeans have a whole different attitude about than Americans. What we read in this article, while accepted in other parts of the world too, is largely an American or Western phenom.
And as conceited Americans we believe that if we think it or do it... then everyone else does too.
The Puritan Pilgrims that landed at Plymouth Rock were very adept at beer making & wine making. Thats a fact. That comes from original sources... some of their own diaries and journals.
Christians in France and Germany have a whole different way of thinking when it comes to this topic.
The real question is, my friend... what does the Bible say? There is NO directive in the Bible condemning the consumption of alcoholic wine. There is certainly commands against drunkeness.
Most Christians would do well to avoid alcohol all together. But we can not make a command for believers when there is not one in the Bible.
When will they be putting out a book about gluttony?
Krispy
Or cigars and pipes. Spurgeon and CS Lewis enjoyed their cigars and pipes.