Need Doctrinal help ASAP

OK - so I started going to this church about 8 weeks ago and it's been awesome, very Holy Spirit filled - but there's something in the preaching that has me at an impass. I've heard a reference once to 'word-faith' teaching, and they seem to teach on faith / Abraham a lot. So I was doing some digging and am copy / pasting some direct quotes from their over seer. That makes me a little weary.

"
When we discover the rights we have in Christ that are given to us throughout the Bible, we are to constantly affirm them and testify to them. The apostle Paul said that as we share our faith, we will have an understanding of what we have in Christ:

That the sharing of your faith may become effective by the acknowledgment of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. (Philemon 6)

Therefore, our faith will only be effective as we confess with our mouths, from a believing heart, all the good things which belong to us as believers in Jesus.

We know that in Jesus Christ we have been given salvation. Salvation is a wonderful word. It means much more than just being saved from hell so that you can go to heaven one day. It is salvation for the whole man: spirit, soul, and body. It is for our peace of heart and mind, our homes, our health, and our finances. It is freedom from all bondage and fear, with nothing missing and nothing broken.

Affirmation of these truths should ring from our lips. We are told to hold fast to them without wavering. Wavering is brought about through double-mindedness and causes our confession to deny the very things that God has promised us.
""

And "Confession of God’s Word from a believing heart is powerful. It is like the Word in God’s mouth. It creates, it moves mountains, and it releases heaven’s power!
"

What's being taught here and should I be running for my life or what?!

Ok that's just confirming what I'm praying about, dang it why do these churches have so much manifest presence of Jesus and the doctine of demons! UGH makes me sick!

Yeah, don't get me wrong I've been going to Times Square Church since 2001, I've just moved too far away to attend regularly, most of the local churches are very luke warm, so I finally find one that appears to be on fire, passionate worship, constant mission trips, etc. They are VERY into evangelism; but I will say this, I don't think I heard the word repentance once since going.

Either way, I'm out of that house, sucks because the people are genuine and pretty awesome, just most of them don't recognize it as a WOF church, this 1 part of me wants to try to show them truth - but I know where that will go, and it won't be pretty! Anyway, pray for them - pray for me as I hunt for a different church!

Soulrider I'm not sure but i think we shared on a thread a long time back.

Brother I felt to share something with you that you don't need to ask anybody else what to do but seek God and get filled or refilled with the Holy Spirit and He will show you what to do and if these people are in error then He will show you how to go about it. Brother you've been in timesquare church all them years you have something few people have and you should be full of God to make a difference and if God says you can't then listen to Him. When I go somewhere the Holy Ghost shows me what to do and I expect the atmosphere to change.

Brother all power lives in me and He should to be living in you too!

Blessings...from brother rbanks

"OUR FAITH WILL ONLY BE EFFECTIVE AS WE CONFESS WITH OUR MOUTHS"

This is why I would discourage a mute from joining the WOF.

approved brother i definitely don't agree with some things in the WOF movement but He was thinking of vs 10 that you left out.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The mouth will confess what the heart believes even a mute person will make some kind of outward expression of what he believes inwardly. This gospel of Christ is so powerful to the one who truly believes that the mouth will confess it unto salvation. The word is near thee even in thy mouth that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth what the heart believes that God hath raised Jesus from the dead (brother that is resurrection power)then the Holy Spirit will cause the mouth to confess that Jesus is Lord. No man can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy ghost.

How can our faith be effective if our mouth does not speak what we believe. We can't be timid about this thing and we can't be ashamed to speak. Whoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed. I realize that you can say all the right things and still not believe in your heart but how can you truly believe in your heart having a mouth to speak and not speak.

Blessings...from brother rbanks

hi, i see that we need wisdom in these times in how not to condemn something that is or sounds like it is word of faith.if you look up sozo in strongs it will amaze some of you. there is some great truth in wof yet it is dangerous to those who carry it an inch too far. if you understand bro. ken hagin basic teaching , you will know that he starts off by saying "have faith in God, or have the God kind of faith and IFyou do you can say unto this mountain...etc" faith begins with a directive word from God and when received,believed and obeyed ...you now have biblical faith. he does not say if you want a new car to confess into being...this is where a lot of folks get into trouble...you must have the word from God to have faith and anything else is presumption. be careful to eat the fish and spit out the many bones.jimp

Soulrider, i am confused as to how you can say that the church "is very Holy Spirit filled" and yet you feel an inner caution about the doctrinal teachings in the church. That is a self-contradictory statement if ever there was one. And IF heresy is being preached there then the church is not Holy Spirit filled. The Word of Faith movement IS heresy/false teaching...Go with your gut. Pray and ask God and by an by He will reveal the truth to you. If you begin to hear statements that people are not healed or not financially blessed simply due to "lack of faith" then that IS heresy. They have a longstanding tendency to blame the person who is not healed; it must always be THEIR fault, THEIR lack of faith (never the lack of faith of the person praying over them, etc). Also, Christ is proof of the lie of the Health and Wealth Gospel (aka Prosperity Movement); Jesus was not rich, wealthy, ambitious, nor socially prestigious. Christ did not come so that we could be prosperous and wealthy, He came to save souls and the focus should be on Him and on soul saving. On dying to self, not on promotion of self.

Quote: there is truth mixed with error.

Show me a church that hasn't got truth mixed with error..

Edit spelling

Trekker,

I know that they are a word of Faith teaching church, they are however a lot more reigned in with the extremeness of the teaching, or I should say - not as blatant about it in the more obvious areas of that doctrine; which is why it took me 2 months of going to the church to finally recognize it as such. They by no means go as overboard as some of these guys on TBN. Most of the regulars there I've gotten to know and speak to and the conversation is never really focused on that doctrine, as a matter of fact - most of what they teach is very solid - which is why it's hard to detect.

I believe that their love for God is very genuine, and the core statement of faith in the church is solid; it's just that they preach Faith from the pulpit in this way- take that away and you've got a really powerful church that is sold out to do the work of Jesus, they are very into missions as well.

I know I'm defending them because I know them a bit; I just don't think they see it as a false doctrine, I'm going to send a really good email in love - but will make my case against the WOF doctrine. I think the people there are really great and zealous for the Lord, and 95% of what is taught is right on, it's just the 5% that's off is what sickens me; I am so grieved, broken and weary about this because of the people that are in it - such great people.

Please I beg you please in all earnest pray for them and wisdom for me to make a strong enough case that they will recognize it as such and repent.

Brother Joe

Brother Joe,

I don't want to be negative toward these individuals nor tie the hands of Our Lord Jesus but if the WOF doctrine is a serious conviction of these individuals it will take quite a bit more than an email for them to change their heart on the matter. I say this only to say be careful and prepared to come under some kind of fire, people take their doctrine pretty seriously and to go contrary to it brings offense.

Also I have never been to a church where I agreed 100% on the doctrine of a church. I always found something I wasn't quite in agreement with. What I found is not everyone believes the same thing when you walk into a church and while WOF is something that maybe taught among this church its definitely not something everyone buys into at that church. What is the Lord telling you to do about the matter? I can give an opinion all day long but ultimately we have to ask ourselves at the end of the day did my actions bring Glory to God?

I also found that it's awefully hard to make generalizations of a group of people and that it generally takes sitting down on an individual basis to really understand what they are thinking and believe.

In my opinion and history of the WOF movement I wouldn't go to the particular church but would maybe set up a bible study night with some of the brothers and sisters you know there and really get a handle on what they believe.

Quote: Need Doctrinal help ASAP

It's not doctrinal help you need it's the Holy Spirit you need to lead you.

My advice would be to seek the leading of the Holy Spirit..

Edited for spelling

Be patient. Seek the Lord through the Word and much Prayer. (And for a personal note, listen to a lot of Leonard Ravenhill, A. W. Tozer and T. Austin Sparks. They don't preach today like these guy from the past).

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1102&commentView=itemComments

Soulrider, I hope you read my two posts as well as Colin's.

Brother if the Holy Spirit is present in this church then you need to be careful to follow His leading with what He is already doing.

The bible says not to quench the Spirit and also not to grieve the Spirit and you don't want to be responsible for causing some little one to stumble or fall.

Pray in the Holy spirit, bathed yourself in prayer and then precede with caution, make sure that you are lead by the Spirit and give no room for the adversary.

Until you hear from God you need to do nothing. God has not made any of us to do the Holy Spirit's job.

God Bless you brother...from brother rbanks

Thank you all of you, Thank you thank you thank you! Seriously, I love these forums for sound advice! I will pray, I have been praying but will pray even more. Bless all of you amazing lovers of Jesus!

Rbanks: Thank you.

I am a 7 year member of this "WOF" Church and what you have heard so far from Joe is very "Vague".

We have never, ever, "identified" ourselves with the WOF movement. I have never even heard the movement named until the ONE sermon in the 8 weeks he attended in my SEVEN...wait for it... S E V E N years at this church.

And then it's mentioned one other time, from an online course from a well-known evangelist who has over 30 years in the ministry and about 15 years of traveling the World preaching the gospel with our head pastor.

What Joe left out was that as it was mentioned in this corriculum, there was a big notation stating that there is a lot of fluff to ignore with the movement and he denounces the general direction it took.

But in a very general statement he uses what was the origin of the movement to encourage believers to speak aloud the promises of God:

Philemon 1:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
that the sharing of your faith may become effective by the acknowledgment of every good thing which is in you[a] in Christ Jesus.

So let's get a few thing's straight:

Being a long,long time member of this church of 150 members+. I have broken bread, shared life with, and gone on missions trips with the accused.

I have never, ever, ever seen anyone respond to any of our preaching thinking:

1. they can control God by speaking what they want
2. That there is this mystical power when you use your voice that forces things to happen

Instead let me give you a story:

We had a young couple that wanted to join us on a missions trip because their heart was burdened for the orphans. Their finances were not working out. They really felt the Lord had called them to that country. Our encouragement was related to holding fast to the promises of God- that if God wants you there He will get you there! Lo-and-behold, they get a check for the exact amount they need to get the plane tickets out of nowhere (a check from the state dept) a week before it was due. Their faith and trust in God was enlarged, and they have another testimony and story to share on this trip. As a result of this trip they are now adopting a child from the orphanage to america, praise God!

As Joe said above, we are a missional church, and a church that believes every believer is called to preach, teach, & make disciples. We had two members come to our church fresh out of a wild lifestyle in the Navy running up debt, sleeping around, and walking away from God.

They stepped into our church and during the intimacy of worship they fell on their knees, cried out to God, and have never been the same since. In one year our head pastor has drilled into them that they have it in them to preach, pray for the sick, go to the prisons, etc. and they have paid off their debt, Cold-turkey dropped beer & drugs, both went on a missions trip (the one guy for a 3 month stay!) and have taken a few of the youth under their wing in discipleship. They are enrolled in our prison ministry schedule, they clean the church on the weekend.

I've asked Joe countless times to judge our church by the fruits, as RBanks encouraged. Instead he has looked up NOT the Word of Faith movement, but "Criticism" of the word of faith movement and even comments here and "Copied & Pasted" it into a 13 page document and gave it to our head pastor.

I've pleaded with him to call the pastor up, who told me to remind Joe that if he has any doubts or questions of our church- to call and have a conversation. Instead Joe has quoted Mormonism, 7th Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witness, and then moved on into the Word-Faith movement.

Our head pastor has had 35 years in the ministry and has been to over 65 nations preaching the Gospel. Months after he was born again, the Lord pressed it upon his heart to sell all he had and travel. He took his wife with him, traveled with no income, no money, no security, no insurance, and traveled the world with many ministry heads moving about by referral and sometimes just landing in a country and figuring things out as he went. Meanwhile he had 5 kids while doing all of this and has seen God's provision by simply acknowledging what he was given in Christ Jesus as a new creation in Christ and he encourages us all to do the same. He still travels the world now at age 60 and challenges our church to trust in what the Lord gave us the day of our salvation, the helper, the Holy Spirit, to carry the Gospel to the world.

The two men I speak about above are a great example of how, when you avoid either extreme, you result in something beautiful- and you can judge it by it's fruit! What do I mean? Well:

There is one extreme. Where we are to "beat our body" into submission, where we are but "Sinners in the hand of an angry God", where any answer to our issues in life is that we haven't repented enough. We are the dirt beneath God's nail, and to say we are anything more is to elevate ourselves as Satan did and tempted Adam & Eve with.

Then the other extreme, which I believe may have lead to the Word-Faith movement. People feeling "oppressed" by the first extreme above said "Hey! We are the righteousness of God! I just read that John the Baptist was greater than any man before him, and that he who is LEAST in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John the Baptist! That's me! I am do all things in christ who gives me strength! I can move mountains!" but when taken too far there comes a distraction where people worship the MEANS instead of the END.

The problem with the first extreme is that you are putting a stain on Christ's bride, the CHURCH. He died to present us holy, righteous, and perfect. It leads to a focus on "Sin", to the degree that you don't DO or SEE anything else. What is the new creation in christ? A dirty rag? What did Christ die for, then? To save us and transform us into something unworthy? Or so that we could get behind the veil?

The problem with the second extreme (and seemingly the WOF movement) is that it can puff up. If you don't acknowledge that those great declarations Christ has over His beloved redeemed saints is only made possible by the blood purchase of the Cross, you miss it entirely.

The point is we were bought at a price. We are not our own, we are His. Created to do His works. Slaves of righteousness.

So my case-in-point is the testimony of our 2 former Navy members. They have dropped the big habitual sin in their life, they have seen much fruit since they've come to this church, often thanking me with tears I nagged them enough times to get them in the door. All of this under a church with a doctrine that is serious enough to make discipleship a priority (which keeps accountability, and keeps a repentant heart in our day-to-day mistakes) and also saying God had a call on your life founded before he created the earth.

We have a pastoral team of 6 couples. for such a small church it's unheard of but we have it because of our reading of "Go unto all the world and make DISCIPLES" Disciples, of "discipline" implies a teacher-student mentality. We do not want to gather sheep to simply listen to one man preach only, but to have every member of our church engaged to stay accountable, encourage, and see to it that no believer walks out the door thinking they are disqualified from Preaching the Gospel or going to Judea, Samaria, or the uttermost parts (meaning locally, nationally, or to the world).

But this is what happens when you isolate statements, which we all can do and have done to many preachers. You say one thing, but what about the other! In two of those 8 weeks, we had a focus on Tongues. Joe wondered what about the other gifts?! What about Love being so important?! It was a bit unfair, because if you've been around you'd know it wasn't an every-sunday thing. And then the three weeks spent on faith was more about "Faith Without Works is DEAD" than one mention about a movement. We don't stick to one topic, we don't stick to one gift. We don't preach prosperity, rather "to be content when you abase or abound."

Instead of judging other churches/movements, we focus on what we're doing. I've read up and have many things to say about preachers like Joel Olsteen, for example, but then I realize: Who am I to call him out? By what authority? Why would he even bother to listen if I said it or even our church? Why should I let what others are doing distract me? It became a gossip session. Reading what other had to say was wrong with Wilkerson, Olsteen, Hillsongs, you name it!

So you can sit there as a non-congregant with no ministry and judge all who are doing some form of ministry- and as misguided as some may be (I know some are downright wrong or false) there are plenty that have within them the Bride of Christ, His redeemed, and I'd check your logic to see if you could ever greet a Husband after gossiping about His wife.

Joe needs to come and talk to US, not run around online finding every criticism of everything he has in question.

I pray for his peace, he has clearly decided to move on and try another church I just hope he can discover some Wisdom on Church life (which we are all called to).

It requires RELATIONSHIPS. It's all about relationships. We are deeply knit with one another in relationships and I've encouraged joe to simply get to know the pastor and invite him for dinner.

There is much more to this story, but as Joe has pointed me here I figured I had the liberty to explain.

I went to one of those once years ago. The presence of the Lord was there during worship, but left as soon as the preacher walked to the platform.

hi, for al those who belong to word of doubt or word of criticism churches take the same advise.jimp

I do not proscribe to the name it and claim it crowd, with the sole exception of my salvation through the Blood of Jesus Christ that has washed away all my sins for all time.

God is able to save me, Christ did it all, The Holy Spirit resides in me and helps me, and in God I truly trust.

I'm also facing alike situation, I recommend listening to this from Zac Poonen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTt7CgYkfyE&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAM3YjynoAg&feature=plcp

Brothers and Sisters,

I cannot believe that no one has commented on what PhoenixDBR posted TWO days ago! What? Are you guys going to ignore such a sound rebuttal to Joe’s “I know that they are a word of Faith teaching church”? For shame.

PhoenixDBR
So you can sit there as a non-congregant with no ministry and judge all who are doing some form of ministr...y

Joe needs to come and talk to US, not run around online finding every criticism of everything he has in question.

Brother, I am no one in particular to advise you this but humble yourself under the mighty hand of hand, brother and go back and talk to them and whether you stay or not, repent for your online words (because by them we will be justified or condemned Matt 12.37). You will be a better man for it.

“RECEIVE the love of the truth...” 1 Thess 2.10

God bless you,
Sister Lisa

PhoenixDBR,

It was a blessing to read your post and the spirit in which you wrote. I do hope and pray the best for you, your pastor, and church family. It sounds like you all have a lot of good ministry going on there. My prayer is that you all will follow the Holy Spirit’s leading in all that you do. I hope and pray the best for Joe also. Having never been to your local church I have no way of commenting further but maybe some good will come out of this that Joe has brought up in that it will cause the leadership to be more cautious in following the “Word” and “Spirit” of the Lord Jesus.

The reason, I say what I have said, is that I have learned from over the years of being a pastor since 1990, that prayer before God continually is very important so that the ministry will be of the Holy Spirit in the Word of God. There were times that I could have done some things differently if I had only prayed about it more. I have since learned that following the Holy Spirit’s lead is very important and that I must stay in the scriptures studying as well as praying in the Holy Spirit allowing Him to break me and continually fill me with the Spirit because I must decrease so that Christ can increase. There is a real need today for Spirit anointed preaching and ministering to receive the life that comes from the “Word” in power, so that people can truly experience God and His full salvation of deliverance and restoration.

Again I do pray for you all and also for Joe’s future in the Lord and also that God will work all things out for His good and the good of all involved because we know that Jesus is building his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it, and we are to make our calling and election sure, and to work our own salvation with fear and trembling as God works within us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Blessings in Christ,
Brother rbanks

Lisa wrote:
this is about 1/8th of the problem with SI... the arm chair computer ministers.

Approved wrote:
LOLOLOL. Oops, I almost tipped over my tea sitting on the arm chair.

God bless you,
Lisa

I'll get a full reply when I can, but I can say this - I presented to them what was taught by traditional 'WOF' - and after the reply - I can safely say they are indeed NOT a traditional WOF church, however - there is still a teaching that puts a lot of emphasis on words.

I'm sure we will get it hashed out offline.

Let me further clarify what it means to put an emphasis on "Words"...it's this emphasis that sits parallel to "Word-Faith" but if I can explain it more clearly perhaps you'll see how with our train of thought it does not worship the MEANS but rather the END (if you follow the MEANS to an END error in much of the Word-Faith movement).

The emphasis on "Words" at our church is moreover emphasised on the believer to do the following:
1. Preach
2. Pray
3. Missions

Can we agree that "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"?

Right.

Can we agree that it's hard to preach, pray for someone, or do anything in the mission field without the Word of God, and without words physically being spoken (or for a Deaf or Mute for arguments sake, then "displayed")?

So follow this train of thought: The more you confess with your mouth the promises God made to you in His provision of the Holy Spirit given on the day of Salvation, the clearer revelation you will have on what was given to you which will enable you to do the Good works of Faith so many people feel "unworthy" to accomplish.

The best way to "dumb this down" in an example is the one I wrote to Joe:

When I first got married, it was hard to believe, it was "unreal"! However, the more and more I had to sit with a bank teller or introduce my longtime friend as "My wife..." the more it became a reality in my life. As I kept saying it over and over, *that which was already a fact* was becoming a reality.

A better yet example:

My recent missions trip I took was for 21 days. In those 21 days I believe nearly every day I was given a time to preach, a time to pray for those who responded, a time of fellowship with the villagers, evangelism, one or two days feeding the poor, a medical camp day, etc.

The more I preached, the more I spoke the Word of God in all of my sermons and sharing, the more encouraged I was of my own faith! I could see it at work!

It's like much of the church today is a motorcyclist with the helmet on, the gear, the pads, the bike even, but they just sit on it equipped; *they never ride the bike*! They go to church and listen to one man preach, they pray privately for that "one couple" that does the missions trips, etc.

Not us!

Would you believe the 2nd week Joe came to our church in the midst of the annointed worship he felt a burden to pray for our lost relatives. He did the right thing (all things done "In Order") and B-lined it to our lead pastor, shared it with him in his ear, and was assisted on stage to speak about it then join in corporate prayer for the lost relatives. Our Lead Pastor took the mic back from Joe and encouraged everyone to take that ONE person that first comes to mind and at least phone call them this week to respond to this "Word of Faith" from Joe. No, our pastor didn't word it as "Word of Faith" but I'm teasing Joe because it was a "Word from the Lord" that Joe responded, in faith, and acted upon. The word in this case was to pray for the lost, lost relatives, which I do dear pray we all here can agre is biblically sound! We are taking the Word of God (the preaching of Gospel of Christ) and responding to it. Nothing more, nothing less. We weren't being called to direct the Lord inasmuch as Joe didn't "direct" the congregation in prayer but responded to the Spirit's voice. Follow?

We are a church open to hearing what the Spirit is saying, both during worship and the preaching of the Word. In that moment. What Joe did wasn't "Word-Faith" movement-like, and neither was our Pastor's challenge for us to act on our prayer. It could be called a "Word of Faith" but see then it becomes a Buzz word or phrase that may elude to another thought pattern that may throw someone off....but it's as simple as the story is above. Nothing more, nothing less.

So I hope you can see it as this: The more you preach the Gospel the more revelation you receive that you have it in your heart. Again, Phil1:6 "by the acknowledgement of every good thing that is within you"...

...you give *honor* and acknowledge the "Word" of God inside of you when you preach it! It's something every believer should be doing, preach, preach preach!

It's such an easy concept- you say it, you believe it, you believe it, you say it. It's not mystical, it's not magic, it's not a mind-trick, it's nothing this world wouldn't understand in the natural...

...in the natural world how many times do you hear (and would you agree..?) that words can damage someone. Oh if you knew how many prisoners shake their heads YES when I talk about how they perhaps were told they'd amount to nothing as a child.

So how many times have you come to a brother to lift him up in a time of pain, and as you share a Psalm or a scripture you find yourself encouraged as well?!

That's all we are saying, in simplification, when we stress the matter of "Confessing" it, or using "words". As you listen to the simplistic message of Christ flow out of your mouth in preaching the Gospel how much more are you being encouraged as well as the audience!

I sat in my bed that first night on the missions trip and thought, wow, I just stood as this white guy amidst a totally different culture and tribe and preached the Gospel! Whoa! Thank you Lord!

So we don't encourage people to simply grab ahold of a promise and use it like a magic wand over your total'd vehicle in the snow and expect God to "listen to your authority" and fix it in an instant.

We encourage people to take the simple message of Christ, and to P R E A C H it, and as you do, you are displaying a measure of faith to the Word that is in your heart. You are seeing it come out of you in the form of Words as in a preached sermon, a prayer, etc.

I think of the Centurion's faith. He came to Jesus in a "prayerful" type of "request", and also had his own measure of "faith" *displayed* in "confessing" that all he needed was an authoritative Word from Whom all authority is given (Christ).

If Salvation is displayed in a *confession* of sin, and a *confession* of Him being Lord and savior, how is it "demon doctrine" to say your Faith is displayed in a confession of a promise- which is to *preach the Gospel* to all the world?

It's because Joe heard such a emphasis on "words" coming out of ones mouth and "confession of faith" that he immediately shut down, ignored the "unpacking" of the rest of the sermon. He heard it being compared (because it is similar at face value, but as our doctrine was outlined to say there is plenty taken too far in the movement!) to Word of Faith movement and just let it *supersede* all the evidence and fruit in our congregant and leaders life that shows that we are not a 1. Prosperity Gospel church nor do we 2. Believe you have authority over God by the working of some faith-force.

First, as I stated earlier in my posts - the people there are awesome - as I'm sure you can see - by my friends reply. I've never taken issue with the people, quite the contrary - they are amazing.

I did go and speak with the pastor in humility, brokenness, and 'one on one' wanting to keep the matter confidential and ended the conversation asking for a phone call to discuss as my exact words to him were - "My TRUST in the church was being shaken."

I didn't receive a phone call, but an email - not from the pastor, but from the worship leader - PheonixDBR, a long time friend of myself and spouse. Trust went from shaken to shattered, how could I ever go to (at the time) MY pastor in confidence about anything else going forward? I have already forgiven this, just FYI :)

So as I have the email; he did a great job of explaining what they do / don't believe.

Here is 1 teaching where I still feel very unsettled in my spirit.

""OUR FAITH WILL ONLY BE EFFECTIVE AS WE CONFESS WITH OUR MOUTHS"
My Question:Do you notice this changing around of words to form a teaching?"
Answer(from PheonixDBR): No. You are taking “Confessing with our mouths” to mean salvation. He is referring to my encouragement at home group. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The more I CONFESS IT WITH MY MOUTH in preaching or encouraging someone or In speaking the word of God against circumstances- the more I have faith, because I am hearing it over and over. Word of God – Spoken – Heard – Faith is built.

My thoughts on that oh so often quoted verse - Faith come by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; is that verse is taken out of context - it is meant for salvation - for the non believer.

NIV
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
NLT
So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.

The Pharisees had the word of God and spoke it often yet most didn’t have faith or turn to Jesus. They bless me with their mouth and curse me in their hearts God said. Obviously this isn't the case for us disciples of Christ! But I see a warning there, especially when this is taught to new believers.

Life & Death is in the power of the tongue – because the tongue confesses Christ as Lord unto life, and death if it doesn't.

And I will share some of my testimony after being converted.

Freed from the spirit of fear

Once I read this verse that said God has not given us a spirit of fear. I was in study hall in high school and I felt so much fear, but I kept saying that verse over and over in my head to the point I was saying fear you have no place in me. After about 30 minutes of praying this in my head, the spirit of fear just left me, it was amazing, oh I was free from fear - oh God be praised.

I never said a single word out loud, it stemmed from a believing heart in his word as I was getting to KNOW him as he reveals his attributes and character to me via his Spirit and Word to my inner man.

I’d like to get further input from members here on this above teaching – of course keeping it edifying and in love! Because I’ve NEVER heard this teaching from any of my teachers – Tozer, Ravenhill, Carter Conlon, Tim Delina, Jim Cymbala, Dwight Moody, CS Lewis, David Wilkerson. Yet all of them have preached faith and praise God for it!

To me this teaching is adding to what was originally taught from the scripture.

I believe that 2 basic litmus tests for any teachings are 1) Has it been preached since the cross or does the teaching come from some time (1800ish) years later and we start hearing it over the past hundred years and just accept it. 2) It needs to be for all humanity (in this case mutes are excluded)

After a long email that helped to relieve a lot of fears regarding the churches doctrine - it ended with a few points of pointing out David Wilkerson’s ‘false prophecies’ and some of his doctrine of suffering. (All of the points he mentioned I've read about quite extensively years ago - I've always made it a point to examine all my own teachers doctrines as well.)

Now I understand his intent was to make me feel what he was feeling about his teachers, and to help me understand the BALANCE of 2 key areas - repentance to God, and faith towards Jesus.

At any rate, the members of this church are just incredible and the testimony’s there are amazing!
I will be getting together for lunch with PheonixDBR sometime soon! LOVE YOU GUYS and I am keeping it in a proper perspective - I understand that there are a billion more important things than this - and those billions are the unsaved!

Thank you all so much for your prayers - we all know how real this is!

LOL did we seriously post at the exact same time? You beat me to it! :D :D :D

You didn't go to the one who preached it, and you know who I'm talking about. He has told me, and I told you, to call him and meet with him with any questions on what he preaches.

This is not the first time you dropped a letter and left something, or someone, in your life.

This is also not the first time you acted out of fear.

"We're due for another plane crash" - sound familiar?

No Joe, you didn't have to say "God didn't give me a spirit of fear!" several times to yourself in the mirror as a mantra to relieve yourself of it.

That example alone proves once again how you are missing the point and somehow ignoring the 6-7 year history we have in your knowledge of who I am. Do I sound like the type that would say to do that? To just repeat it over and over until you "feel it"? No.

Instead see my explanation above how what you do have inside of you becomes evident as you confess it in the form of preaching the Word of God. Something we are doing as a church and you need to start doing with *A* church, even if it's not ours :).

Joe if we follow your logic why bother preaching the Gospel?

Yes, there are those who will cry out "But we cast out demons in your name" and He will say "Depart from me, I never knew you!" ...

...and those "types" of people that, like the Pharisees, simply "Said" the "Right words" but had no conviction in their heart are evident by their fruit.

Now, since when did I say the confession of the word FORCES you to truly believe. If it "Follows" the conviction of your heard it is a "Good" "true" confession.

The same can be said of anyone confessing Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior, yet you've done it and so have I! Others have done it as a form of "Well if I say this, I get that! Got it, done!" that doesn't stop you or I from saying the same exact confession but from a pure hearts cry.

So I refuse to let others (Pharisees, and those described by "I never knew you") to stop me from having a good confession of faith which is to preach the Gospel man. That's it.

hi, in business as in all parts of your life if you say you can not ;guess what you can not and that is why a lot of people are not successful. a positive attitude and confession is important in business and in life and in the church...we can do all things through Christ... allows us to try and doing all things. we then are successful in a lot of the things we try. people get healed,saved,delivered and God does supply all our needs. an old sales story... a salesman who was discouraged was on the bridge fixing to jump off of it and his boos and great friend went up to talk to him and help him and after 15 minutes they both jumped.negativity is contageous also. judge a place by the fruit.look at the members. you never judge a teacher by how smart the teacher is but how smart the students become.jimp

Sorry I went to the pastor I have a relationship with, the overseer they call a prophet at the church I don't know all that well.

To me fruit isn't what you do as much as the meekness, humility, servant hood, that is the fruit I look for, not how many countries we go too. The ground is level at the cross. We all share the same credentials Jesus Christ and him crucified.

I think the communication breakdown here is I am thinking about preaching and teaching simply what's in the bible, a lot of this teaching requires so much more explanation and leaves so much room for confusion and error to the hearers.

With that being said I understand what you are saying above.

Oh and really do we need to dig up my personal sin from years ago on a public forum? I think you are crossing a line brother. I've nothing to hide because the lamb has set me free.

dear soulrider, the fruit of mary's womb was Jesus. the fuit of a church is converts(disciples). the fruit of a mans labors are results(profits) the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love,joy ,peace...etc. the fruit of the Spirit is only judged in the growth of an individual like long suffering.jimp

Sorry I went to the pastor I have a relationship with, the overseer they call a prophet at the church I don't know all that well.

You haven't had a conversation with the man who said this from the pulpit. He's available for you. I'm just trying to encourage you to have conversations. How long of a conversation did you have with J.O.?

To me fruit isn't what you do as much as the meekness, humility, servant hood, that is the fruit I look for, not how many countries we go too. The ground is level at the cross. We all share the same credentials Jesus Christ and him crucified.

"To me" is where you always go, and is the whole point of joining a church. Those who don't commit to a church isolate themselves and make their own conclusions without the challenge of what happens when you establish full Koinonia with a brother or sister in Christ. I am referencing both the fruits of the spirit (Love, Joy, Peace) as well as the fruit of the persons character (lack of Habitual sin, sound mind, etc.). I never said it was based on how many countries we go to, so I don't know why you even mentioned that. We have said time and time again that being mission minded has to do with everyday life, the 50 weeks of the year you are in America not just the 2 weeks abroad! Our guest pastor that came to talk about church planting mentioned this 2-3 times. And how do you see "meekness" or "humility" in a person? How do you find that fruit in someone? By what they say or do right? How else can you tell where a person is at?

I think the communication breakdown here is I am thinking about preaching and teaching simply what's in the bible, a lot of this teaching requires so much more explanation and leaves so much room for confusion and error to the hearers.

What has been preached is in the bible. "requiring explanation" translates to me as "requires thought, requires questions, requires desire" which are all great things. Jesus preached parables as well as mixed verses from the OT.

Oh and really do we need to dig up my personal sin from years ago on a public forum? I think you are crossing a line brother. I've nothing to hide because the lamb has set me free.

I apologize if it wasn't "Vague" enough but I was using it to make a point. I couldn't without pointing it out. Just as much as you are posting here on a public forum declaring a church's doctrine as that of demons. I have yet to call you or your train of thought a demon. I won't.

And while we are going there you once again missed the point in my Copy&Paste of Wilkerson accusations. I didn't do it to put him or you down but to make a point. Your 13 pages was 90% "other peoples opinions" copied and Pasted and written as your own thoughts. If we go far enough on the internet, we will find people who can call out and dispute any church, any christian band, any preacher. You simply went around finding those that agreed with you and used it as support. I know it feels validating when you find someone who agrees with you, but what you should have done is directly quoted that which you are against with biblical references, printed it out, and spoke one-on-one in person.

I hope you can see the points being made. You are coming off very defensive for someone who is on the offense. You keep reminding us/me how you will stick to repentance for sins daily (as if we don't...) and that you can read scripture instead of verbalizing it and it still has an affect on you (which we agree with).

Rbanks, I love what you wrote here. I don't think I was all that successful below in explaining what I meant but Rbanks put it much better here:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44641&forum=36&0

I still love you even though you are making me go crazy writing this all out, and I still want to talk one-on-one in person like what was recommended by me for you and VJ.

I would post the churches Statement of Faith, if they had one on their website. This was actually something I brought up as well with the pastor and emailed him a statement of faith to put up there.

Since it was brought up - I will share this testimony with those on this board to encourage others, if possible.

As a child I discovered pornography. It was a lust problem that was there from as long as I could remember. After years of struggling with this back and forth, a habitual sin - it stayed with me even into my marriage, although I hid it from her. Finally God told me - you must tell her, confess your sins one to another! A few years ago I confessed my struggle of masturbation and pornography with her by writing a letter of confession and leaving in shame - the next day I came back and we sought counseling, it was painful at first and we wept and prayed together, but God kept her held in his arms and now to this day I am freed from both of those sins completely - praise God. He is able to keep us blameless and biblically as ONE! Both of us have been involved in a married couples Bible study for the past 5 years, at times we even co-lead it.

I am convinced that our Lord is more interested in what we are becoming in Him than in what we are doing for Him.

Thank you all for your prayers, the Holy Spirit really ministered to me this morning and I'm sure it's from you all praying! Many thanks!

Examine your DOCTRINE closely. That is teaching; I don't mean to offend PEOPLE but examine TEACHING - regardless of WHO (and WHAT their fruit is) teaches it. I believe the church is under attack and it's using DOCTRINE to get in, I don't know how to explain what the Holy Spirit does to me when I pray for the church's DOCTRINE.

So Here I will COPY AND PASTE IT'S DOCTRINE. For those patient enough to go through it - maybe we can bring something to light and all be edified. All in context in the following posts.

CHAPTER 3 - CONFESSION OF FAITH: PART 1

It was by His very words that God created the world.

Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. ( (Genesis 1:3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24)

It is by words that we are recreated in Christ Jesus. We ourselves are word products of God’s own omnipotent words.

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:8-10)

Few Christians recognize the importance of confession and the place it should hold in our lives. In the minds of most people, the word “confession” refers to confession of sins, weaknesses, and failures. This is one side of the subject; the other side is the confession of faith, i.e., confessing what the Word says.

CONFESSION IS VITAL

Confession is one of the most important areas in our walk as believers, though in many churches it is never taught or even mentioned. There are even those who devote themselves to discrediting what they call “the name it, claim it” teaching. It is seen in this negative light because of failure to recognize the power of words.

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. (Hebrews 10:23)

The positive meaning of confession is to say or affirm what God has said in His Word about a certain thing. It is agreeing with God. The prophet Amos puts it this way: “Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?” (Amos 3:3). If we are to walk with God, we need to agree with Him by saying the same thing as He says in Scripture.
Our Words Reveal Our Heart

Some people feel that if you confess, “I am healed, I am healed,” the sickness will disappear. Mouthing vain repetitions or quoting of a formula does not produce a miracle.

Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. (Matthew 12:34)

When someone hears the Good News (the gospel), the Holy Spirit brings conviction upon him, illuminating his mind and heart to the provision of salvation. He then receives the Word of God, calls upon the name of the Lord, and is saved.

It is not just simply mouthing the words “Jesus is Lord” that saves a person, but it is the confession “He is Lord” that spontaneously erupts from the heart of faith. Therefore, it is not sufficient to say “He is Lord” in the abstract. You must really believe that He is Lord, and faith then makes Him the Lord of your life.

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:8-10)
Confession Affirms God's Word

Confessing that “Jesus is Lord” is not just a glib sentence across the lips, but is a declaration of faith from a believing heart that brings possession of eternal life. Positive, faith-filled words that bring possession come from a heart that is positive and faith-filled. Vain repetition of a verse is just a meaningless mantra, but words flowing out of a revelation of Jesus are energized with life to produce results and bring about miracles.

When we discover the rights we have in Christ that are given to us throughout the Bible, we are to constantly affirm them and testify to them. The apostle Paul said that as we share our faith, we will have an understanding of what we have in Christ:

That the sharing of your faith may become effective by the acknowledgment of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. (Philemon 6)

Therefore, our faith will only be effective as we confess with our mouths, from a believing heart, all the good things which belong to us as believers in Jesus.

We know that in Jesus Christ we have been given salvation. Salvation is a wonderful word. It means much more than just being saved from hell so that you can go to heaven one day. It is salvation for the whole man: spirit, soul, and body. It is for our peace of heart and mind, our homes, our health, and our finances. It is freedom from all bondage and fear, with nothing missing and nothing broken.

Affirmation of these truths should ring from our lips. We are told to hold fast to them without wavering. Wavering is brought about through double-mindedness and causes our confession to deny the very things that God has promised us.

But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord. (James 1:6-7)
Boldly Say What God Says

Make God’s Word the standard for your life. Train yourself to say what He says. Think before you speak. Say what God says. Do not contradict Him. When you start to align your heart and words with His Words, a revolution will take place in your life. You will find that you are truly living the bold, abundant life set forth for you in God’s Word.

In the presence of human evidence which is contrary to God’s Word, believers dare to stand and calmly declare that the Word is true.

Confession affirms Bible truths by repeating with your lips (from your heart) the things God has said in His Word. You cannot confess or witness with conviction things you do not know. You must confess what you know personally about Jesus Christ and who you are in Him. These facts are made known as you give yourself to the diligent study and meditation of the Word of God.

This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success. (Joshua 1:8)

Confession Results From Meditation

Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper. The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish. (Psalm 1:1-6)

We are warned to be careful who we allow to influence us (Psalm 1:1-6). The people around us can influence us and shape our thinking and speaking, ultimately affecting who we are and what we will achieve. We have been taught not to be influenced by the ungodly; in fact, we ought to be influencing them by our message and lifestyle. We should be meditating on the Word day and night (Psalm 1:2), allowing God’s Word to be our standard for life and ministry. His Word should determine our value system. Instead of being squeezed into the mold of the world’s system and values, we need to be shaped by God and transformed by the renewing of our mind (Romans 12:2).

*

We undergo a metamorphosis as the Word of God shapes and changes our lives. This is what God was telling Joshua (Joshua 1:8). He would become a godly leader by allowing the Word to determine for him who he was and how he would conduct himself. But also notice that he was to say or confess the Word, “This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth...” (Joshua 1:8).

In order for it to get into his mouth, it had to first get into his heart. How? Through meditation!

* Meditation leads to revelation (being convinced or fully persuaded)
* Revelation leads to confession (declaring what you believe)
* Confession leads to possession (you can have what you say, but it must come from a believing heart)

The secret of confession and of dominating faith lies in knowing and really understanding what Jesus did for us, who we are in Him, and what the Word promises we can do as a result of His finished work. This knowledge coupled with a firm confession of these truths will cause you to develop great faith. You will be robbed of faith if you simply admire Bible truths and say that you believe them, yet refuse to confess them boldly and act on them.

* When I know who Jesus is and what He did for me, I know what actually belongs to me now. Knowing this, I may enjoy my daily life and confess it. That makes me a victor!
* To know that Satan is defeated by our Substitute, the Lord Jesus Christ, and that his defeat is forever settled, makes our redemption a blessed fact and reality.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. (Revelation 12:11)

* We know that God Himself put Satan and his entire kingdom beneath our feet, and we are considered by God and by Satan as victors. We are more than conquerors (Romans 8:37).
* The confession of faith is as natural to us now as the confession of fear before we were enlightened.
* We have been liberated. Our confession has changed; we talk like people of another kingdom, which we are.

Jesus - Our Intercessor And High Priest

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. (Hebrews 3:1-2)

Jesus Christ is not only our intercessor, but also our faithful High Priest.

In times of need we boldly confess God’s promises. When we confess His Word, our High Priest Jesus acts on our behalf, interceding to our Father for the fulfillment of the promises we are confessing.

Between the time that we ask God for some benefit provided for us, and the time that that request is fulfilled or met, we hold fast the confession of our faith.

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. (Hebrews 10:23)

As we faithfully confess the promises in our prayers, our daily conversation, and our testimony, the High Priest of our confession will be faithful to intercede for us until the answer is granted.

You Can Move Mountains

So Jesus answered and said to them, “Have faith in God. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.” (Mark 11:22-24)

Confession of God’s Word from a believing heart is powerful. It is like the Word in God’s mouth. It creates, it moves mountains, and it releases heaven’s power!

CHAPTER 4 - THE CONFESSION OF FAITH: PART 2

WORDS ARE POWERFUL

Words are powerful, whether used positively or negatively.

When someone receives a compliment, the words of encouragement are so enriching and uplifting that they are a blessing to the recipient. We all appreciate positive words spoken of, or about us. When we deal with children and youth, it is easy to see that positive words produce a positive attitude in them.

Many marriages break down because words of love are neglected and marriage becomes a platform for criticizing one another. That is why husbands and wives should constantly seek ways to encourage and bless one another.

On the other hand, negative words can curse and destroy. A teacher who is irritated says to a young child, “You are an absolute failure and you’ll never make anything out of your life!” Though these words were only spoken in the heat of that moment, they have the power to destroy the child’s self-esteem and dignity, humiliating him in front of his class and grieving him deep down in his emotions. He may possibly even be scarred for life. As the child grows older, these words can become so rooted that it happens just as the teacher said!

* The tongue can be a creative force or a destructive force
* The tongue can bring blessing or cursing
* The tongue can be a well of life or a pit of death

The mouth of the righteous is a well of life, but violence covers the mouth of the wicked. ((Proverbs 10:11)

There is more to words than just saying them. Words are an extension of the inner condition of our lives. When positive, faith-filled words spring forth from a healthy inner-man, they are creative and so full of spiritual power that demons, principalities and powers are subject to them, and angels respond to them. The spirit world is controlled by the Word of God in our mouths.

By the blessing of the upright the city is exalted, but it is overthrown by the mouth of the wicked. (Proverbs 11:11)

The positive, faith-filled words we speak over our city can influence its entire destiny. We should find the good in our city and speak about it. There will always be problems, but these will become fewer and fewer as we apply words of life. As believers, we have the ability to change the spiritual atmosphere of our cities by blessing them rather than cursing them. We would then start to see spiritual hunger increase among the people.

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. (Proverbs 18:21)

The hypocrite with his mouth destroys his neighbor, but through knowledge the righteous will be delivered. (Proverbs 11:9)

You are snared by the words of your mouth; you are taken by the words of your mouth. (Proverbs 6:2)

The wicked is ensnared by the transgression of his lips, but the righteous will come through trouble. A man will be satisfied with good by the fruit of his mouth, and the recompense of a man’s hands will be rendered to him. (Proverbs 12:13-14)

All these proverbs show us the potential for good or evil by the words that we speak.
Negative Words

Negative words reveal a negative life. Making a negative confession (speaking words of defeat, failure, or the supremacy of Satan) actually provides a glimpse of the condition of your heart. No one can rise above his or her words. If your language is that of defeat, fear, failure, anxiety, sickness, etc., rest assured that your life will be lived at that level. Your words reveal the state of your heart:

* About your family
* About your church
* About others

Your words reveal the state of your heart, and will either be carriers of life or death. If your conversation is foolish, trifling, impractical or disorganized, your life will invariably be the same way.

A wrong confession is a confession of defeat, failure, and the supremacy of Satan. If you talk about your combat with the devil - how he hindered you, what a hard time he is giving you, and how he is keeping you in bondage - you are glorifying your adversary. It is an unconscious declaration that your Father God has failed you. Thus, not only are you grieving the Lord, but you are bringing great pleasure to the enemy and his agents, because they thrive on being the center of attention.

Such negative confessions continually sap the very life out of you, destroying strong faith and holding you in bondage. A confession with your lips that developed out of living faith in your heart will defeat the adversary in every battle.

Boldly affirm God’s care, protection, and provision for every area of your life, proclaiming that the Greater One, Jesus, lives in you. In doing so, you will rise above all satanic influence.
Believe And Declare God's Word

Go to higher level living in the Kingdom of God. Believe you are who God says you are. Think that way, act that way, train yourself to live in that way.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. (Romans 12:1-2)

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:4-5)

You may not master the secret of the positive confession of God’s Word in one day, or even one week, but you will learn how to apply it as you continue to walk in it faithfully.

Don't Contradict God's Word

Do not allow your thoughts to contradict what God says about you!

My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. Indeed, we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body. Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind. But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh. (James 3:1-12)

Idle Talk

Some people spend time in idle talk. We ought to ensure that our conversation is edifying and productive to the spiritual wholeness of our lives.

He who guards his mouth preserves his life, but he who opens wide his lips shall have destruction. (Proverbs 13:3)

But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. (Matthew 12:36)

Many victories won through prayer were then lost through loose talk, i.e., words spoken that were unnecessary. Others fail to obtain what they have prayed for because they have no understanding of the importance of their confession.

Faith talks about the thing prayed for as if it were already possessed. Before it is seen, heard, or felt. For example, you pray for a sick person. You lay hands on the sick and God promises that they will recover.

They will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover. (Mark 16:18)

As you are leaving the house, the sick person’s wife says: “Keep praying for him!” This statement indicates her lack of faith in God’s Word which clearly states that the sick “will recover.” Instead of giving glory to God’s power and faithfulness, she may even go on to give glory to the enemy by saying, “As soon as you leave, the devil is sure to give him a severe test and will do his best to steal his health.” Once this negative confession leaves her lips, it can nullify your prayer of faith over her husband.

Instead, confess confidence in God’s Word and His faithfulness, even if the symptoms remain or get worse. When symptoms or problems come, we often nullify our prayers and our faith by magnifying the problem.
Thank God And Confess His Word

A person with a broken hand does not say, “My hand is not broken, my hand is not broken!” This is neither a faith-filled confession nor a positive confession but rather is foolishness. It is foolishness like this that discredited “faith” teaching and brought with it confusion and hurt.

The correct confession would have been this: “Lord, I thank You that You restore my hand to full use and movement and that the bone is knitted together speedily and that all pain goes.”

Positive confession is not denying the reality of the problem, but denying the problem to have a permanent hold upon your life. Positive confession recognizes that the problem is real, but that the Word of God is able to solve it.

Confessing negatively is like signing for a package that the express company has delivered. Satan has the receipt and wants your signature by your confession. “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above” (James 1:17), so you do not want to accept anything sent by the devil. Even though your senses may testify that it has come to you, refuse to accept it or confess it, and send it back.

Be followers of God, as dear children. (Ephesians 5:1)

The word “follower” means “imitator.” We are to imitate God as a child does his father. Jesus said, “I do that which I see my Father do.”

Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” (John 5:19)

I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father. (John 8:38)

Speak God’s Word, not like a parrot but with understanding. Speak to your mountain or storm, do not speak about it.

So Jesus answered and said to them, “Have faith in God. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them. (Mark 11:22-24)

Speak The Truth

Speak the truth. God’s Word is truth; therefore, anything contrary to His Word is a lie.
Jesus never spoke negatively, never prayed a problem, and never spoke in doubt. He was always accurate, never crooked in speech. He never confessed present circumstances, but the desired results. Let us be imitators of God in our speech. May the confession of our lips bring health and prosperity to every part of our lives and to everyone around us.

CHAPTER 6 - MAKING A FAITH DEMAND

God Has Time For You!

You can make a faith demand anytime. It doesn't matter how busy God is; He always has time for you. When you pray, He hears; when you call, He says, “I'll answer.” That's why the gospel is good news! God is accessible. We can approach Him anytime and anywhere because He is always ready and willing to meet with us.

If we really had a revelation of the power of prayer and understood the access that we have, not just to heaven, but to the God of heaven, we would do more asking.

Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know. ( (Jeremiah 33:3)

Do you understand that we have direct access to God? He's not just God, He is our “Abba Father.” Because He is our Father and we are His children, we have direct, personal access to Him. We are talking about a God who is great, the Creator of heaven and earth. Through faith, we now have uninterrupted fellowship and access to Him.

You shall call, and I will answer you. (Job 14:15)

For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. (Matthew 7:8)

In no way will you be put to shame. He will not reject you. He will not turn you away. He is never too busy for you. Hallelujah!

And it happened when He was in a certain city, that behold, a man who was full of leprosy saw Jesus; and he fell on his face and implored Him, saying, “Lord if You are willing You can make me clean.” Then He put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately the leprosy left him. (Luke 5:12-13)
Miracles Happen In Impossible Situations

The first thing seen in this text is that the leper’s situation was impossible. Impossible situations make you a good candidate for God's intervention. Every miracle in the Bible took place in times and situations of impossibility. Medical science has become so advanced and so accessible that we have put our confidence in it. It is not that I am against medical science. If it weren't for medical science, many people who are alive and well today would be dead. Medical practitioners have done a good job, but the problem is that when there's another option, we turn to it rather than to God. It is when there is no way out of an impossible situation that God comes through. It’s not that you cannot have God come through in medical science, but we tend to put more confidence in the medicine or doctor than in God.

A friend who was in a car accident almost had to have his legs amputated. He lay trapped for about an hour in his car. He was conscious, praying the whole time. At the hospital he grabbed the surgeon’s hands and prayed for him. He said, “God, you use this man.” And he prayed again. The power of God must have hit that doctor because he saved his legs, and as far as I know, didn't charge him for the surgery. Now that's a miracle!

Put Your Trust In God

You can put your trust in your finances, your bank balance, and even in your possessions. You can put your confidence in some other means of help, but when you recognize that your only hope is God and that He is what you need, you are then ready to make a faith demand. Peter put it another way when he spoke to the lame man:

“Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.” And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and anklebones received strength. And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. (Acts 3:6-8, KJV)

Silver and gold was not the issue. Peter was saying that silver and gold is not what was needed. The beggar thought that he needed silver and gold, but what he really needed was the touch of God upon his life.

It wasn't that Peter and John took a vow of poverty and were walking around financially destitute. They were going to church. They took their checkbook with them for an offering; that wasn't the issue. They weren't trying to avoid giving money to the man, but they knew that the man didn't merely require something to meet his temporal need. More than just money for a meal, they knew that he needed the power of God.

The problem is that we are like the lame man. We put our confidence in the silver and gold and not in the God of the silver and gold. It's not what we need, but who we need. If you want a miracle, the first thing to realize is that nothing and no one else can help you. Sure, there are remedies that may alleviate the pain and help you in some temporal way, but the real issue is whether you will tap into the resources of heaven.
Press Through Impossibilities

The leper's situation was bad (Luke 5:12-14). He didn’t just have leprosy, he was full of leprosy. I don’t know what the Greek word means when it says he was full of leprosy, but I would take it that the disease covered his entire body.

Have you ever seen a person covered with leprosy? It’s a terrible sight to behold a person covered with leprosy. Technically, this man should not even have come to Jesus because lepers had to stand afar off ringing a little bell. When people came near, the lepers had to shout, “Unclean! Unclean! Keep your distance! Don’t come near me, I'm contagious! I’m unclean!”

Lepers could not go to the temple, nor could they go home to be with their families. Family members would come and leave food and provisions. When they had walked away a certain distance, the lepers could then go toward the food.

Leprosy is a terrible thing. This man’s situation was impossible. He did not even have access to people, so he was breaking the law by coming to Jesus.

It was the same for the woman with the issue of blood (Luke 8:43). That issue of blood made her ceremonially unclean. She shouldn’t have been in the presence of a man. She should never have touched a man’s garment, let alone even been in the crowd that day.

A Faith Demand Says It Can Be Done

People who make a faith demand go beyond every obstacle, every hindrance, everything that says, “It can’t be done.” A faith demand says, “It can be done.”

Those four men who carried their friend on the stretcher did not give up when they got to the house in which Jesus was teaching and it was too packed to carry the friend inside. They went up on the roof and broke it up, lowering their friend down so that he could receive his miracle (Mark 2:4-5). These were desperate people. They would not allow themselves to be turned away by the crowd, or by the limitations of the roof.

A faith demand is a bold, desperate act. One reason that people don’t get their miracle is that they don’t get desperate. When you get desperate, you get a miracle. Desperation forces a way through the crowd. Even though the leper was unclean, he got to Jesus.

Can you imagine the scene as the blind man on the side of the road yelled, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!” (Luke 18:38). Others around him warned him to keep quiet, as he was disturbing Jesus. Ignoring this, the man yelled even louder, “Son of David…!” He wasn’t discouraged by the comments of other people. Faith pushes everything aside. When there is that kind of faith, people get their miracle. Jesus stopped, touched him, and made him whole.
Abandon Yourself To God

Another reason people don’t get their miracle is that they’re not willing to abandon themselves. There is something about that place of abandonment; you just don't care about what other people say or think. It’s in those moments that people get their miracle. It’s when you are locked up in yourself, in your pride and in your reputation, that you stand at a distance. Get to the place where you abandon yourself to God.

David abandoned himself before the Lord and before the ark of His presence (2 Samuel 6:14). The result was that the presence of God filled his life. If you will abandon yourself, you too can have the presence of God fill your life.

The woman who fell at Jesus’ feet abandoned herself (John 12:3). She wept and washed His feet. She came and broke open her alabaster box. True to Jesus' words, sermons are still preached about her today because she abandoned herself.

Abandon yourself before Jesus, just fall down before Him, and be immersed in Him. Lose yourself in His presence. Pride will keep you back. Your mind will also keep you back unless you determine in your heart to press in to that place of total abandonment.

There are many things to be learned about the realms of the Spirit. One in particular relates to being “in control” of worship services. I was trained to keep a firm hand on a meeting, but there's a place of perfect abandonment where the peace and presence of God is so real that nothing else compares, let alone matters. As His presence manifests, the power of God is released and miracles happen. When I had my hand so tightly holding the reins, I was not as sensitive to the flow of the Spirit.

Those who practice witchcraft abandon themselves to demon spirits. They start to jerk, gyrate, shake, and scream; some even babble in tongues. I have used this anti-type illustration of demon witchcraft as a picture of abandonment. Just as people have opened themselves up to demons by abandoning themselves to them, we can get to the place of God-possession by abandoning ourselves to Him.

We have access to the perfect, pure, holy One. In worship, I try to forget about what I am going to preach and about what is going on around me. I want to abandon myself to God because I realize that if I can touch heaven, the God of heaven will then touch me and those around me.

Back to (Luke 5:12). I believe that is what the leper did: he abandoned himself. He just came and fell. I guess when it says he came and fell, he literally came and just sprawled at the feet of Jesus. He didn't come, kneel down, move his garment nicely, and then ease himself down. He just ran and sprawled at the feet of Jesus. He just lay there. I'm sure he was tempted to grab the ankles of Jesus. I don't know whether he did or not. The Word just says that he lay there. This speaks not only of humility, but also of abandonment and worship.

The leper called Him, “Lord,” thus implying: “God, You are above me; my faith is in You because of who You are.” It also speaks of recognizing God’s authority and ability. Those who want a miracle must see the greatness of God, His authority, dominion, and power.

The leper said, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean” (Luke 5:12)
Faith Always Asks

When the leper asked for his miracle he was actually acknowledging Jesus’ ability to heal.

Jesus said, “Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask… that your joy may be full. (John 16:24)

One reason that people don't ask is that they feel unworthy and inadequate. They say, “How dare I come before God with this when there are so many other needs.”

Faith Requires Righteousness

Faith operates out of righteousness. In order to get a miracle you need to come in righteousness, not in sin-consciousness. Righteousness sounds blasphemous, but it is the ability to approach God the way Jesus approaches God. Righteousness elevates you from being a mere man. It elevates you from being a speck of insignificance into being the creation of God, loved of God, accepted of God. It allows you to stand before God without a sense of inferiority, as if you never sinned. Like Adam before the Fall, you walk with Him in the cool of the day in innocence. There is no nakedness. There is no blemish in your life. You stand before God knowing that everything you have and everything that you are is laid bare before Him. Nothing is hidden from His sight.

Righteousness is your access to God. It is not arrogance. Righteousness stands in amazement that such a sinner and vile creature, one who was a blasphemer and a murderer, can now stand before God just like Jesus does. You never stand in arrogance, but in humility. Yet there is boldness because of your righteousness that comes forth, enabling you to make a faith demand.

Righteousness says, “God, I've come before You today to receive from Your hand, the hand of Your goodness, the hand of Your greatness, the hand of Your generosity, knowing that You have given me this privilege. I don't come to You as a servant, I come before You as a son. I don't come with cap in hand, wringing my cap in fear of rejection. You are not a boss that I have come to appeal to and hope to catch in the right mood, but I'm coming before You in Your goodness, knowing that You are not going to reject me. I am confident in Your love.”

Access Is A Privilege

I've been invited to meet some great men of God, and just to stand in their shadow has been enough for me. What a privilege just to shake the person's hand. When I shake their hand, I often think, “Well, this person is just like me.” I have read books about them; I have read their books; I have heard them preach in conferences and on tapes and I think, “Wow, I’m actually shaking their hand.” That is nothing compared to our heavenly access. We do not have access just to a great preacher, but to God, the God who made the great preachers and is the King above all earthly kings! It may be an honor to come before certain people, but through the blood of Jesus, we have access to the Creator Himself!

To have access to the White House would be a great privilege, even if you were not of the same political party. You would count it a privilege to actually be able to go and shake the hand of the President of this nation. To be quite honest, you would be blessed if you could get to the undersecretary of the undersecretary. Yet how much more should we be blessed, having an open invitation to come before the God of heaven, with instructions to just ask for what we need.

Faith asks. It doesn’t hope, it asks. It comes with expectation. The leper asked from the place of ignorance. He said, “Lord, if You are willing….” (Luke 5:12). He didn’t know the will of God. Today, we know the will of God. When we ask, we know the will of God. Do you understand the difference? This man’s words were recorded so that we would know the will of God.

Unfortunately, many have learned to limit their asking by saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can heal me.” That kind of teaching has promoted unbelief and doubt. It does not leave you with the anticipation of success, but leaves you in a position of “hopefully,” “maybe,” “if only.” Faith should not even consider the possibility of rejection, failure, or disappointment. Faith has the title deed to the miracle.
MAKE A FAITH DEMAND TODAY!

It could be said that believing in Jesus for your sins to be forgiven requires “greater” faith than anything else you could ever need to believe for. To believe that a holy God could actually forgive us and cleanse us is incredible! That same faith that saved you can be released into any area of your life. If you believe with the same confidence that you believed for your sins to be forgiven, you will find yourself getting answers to your prayers in other areas of great need.
God Is Willing!

Note the response of Jesus to the leper: “I am willing” (Luke 5:13). He then put out His hand and touched him. Do you know what it means to touch a leper? It means to become unclean. Jesus stretched out His hand in total identification with humanity and its suffering. Not only did Jesus say He was willing, but He also went a step further and touched that leper, bringing him his desired healing. Today, God is saying, “I am willing,” and He is reaching out to touch you. Every single time you ask, His response is the same: “I am willing!”

I want you to see something important. Jesus said “I am.” Faith recognizes the I Am. If you do a study of all the times that the phrase “I Am” is used in the Bible, you will quickly see that it is always speaking of God. He is not the “I was” or “I will be.” He is the I Am and He remains the I Am. In other words, He is always a present tense reality. Faith brings the present tense reality of the I Am into our everyday lives. To us, He will always be I Am.
Points Of Contact

When Jesus put out His hand and touched the leper, His hand became a point of contact. A miracle needs a point of contact. There must be a place where you release your faith in God, where God touches you. It could be a shadow, a touch, an anointed minister, a cloth, or a spoken word.

The Word became the point of contact as it says, “And his servant was healed that same hour.” (Matthew 8:13).

If your faith is not in a point of contact, it will do nothing. The shadow of Peter fell on many people, but they did not recognize or acknowledge it. To them, Peter was just another face in the crowd, but those who recognized the hand of God upon his life were able to use his shadow as a point of contact. Through it, they releasing their faith in God and were healed.

Through the years, I have gained a bit of a reputation as a minister, enough so that I can make an illustration of a point here. Upon my arrival at a certain church where I was booked as the guest speaker that night, I found my way to the office so that I could relax for a few moments before the service began. As I was relaxing and meditating on the Lord, a man walked into the office. As I stood to shake his hand, he asked, “What do you do in the church?” I said, “I’m actually the guest speaker. I’m just waiting to go in.” He staggered back and said, “Are you teachers name? THE teachers name (dubbed by me)? Are YOU the one? You are not what I expected!” I thought, “Well, what did you expect?”

From that encounter I learned something about the point of contact. If you have no confidence in the point of contact, you’re probably not going to receive anything. That’s the reason that when Jesus sent out the disciples, He said, “And when you go into a household, greet it. If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you." (Matthew 10:12-13)

In order to receive the blessing, the members of the home would have to receive the point of contact as carriers of the blessing of God. They would have to believe and receive through that point of contact. When Jesus went to His own hometown, the people did not have confidence in the vessel, Jesus. Therefore, they did not receive any miracles. If you have no confidence in the point of contact, whether it be a touch, a shadow, or a word spoken, you probably will not get your miracle. If you have no confidence in the apron or the handkerchief and the human vessel that touched it, you probably will not get your miracle. It will just be another handkerchief, another apron, another shadow, or another hand laid on you. But if you have confidence that it represents the hand of God, there will be an actual impartation beyond the vessel, and the power of God will be released into your life.

Recognize The Anointing

The problem we have with the anointing is the humanity in which it is packaged. That is why I always try to elevate pastors with their congregation. If the church receives and recognizes the man as just another man, they will miss the anointing that is on his life and ministry. You must look beyond the man. Although he is nice and is a good person, he is prone to failure just like any of us. A problem arises when we see their humanity in its weakness. We tend to reject the anointing. Your pastor will probably let you down at some point. Wives and children find it hard to receive from their husbands and fathers because they are intimately acquainted with their humanity. However, if they would dare step beyond what they know and trust the anointing, that vessel could become the point of contact for their miracle.

I know myself well. If I look at myself outside of the call of God upon my life, I would not put myself into the ministry. There is no way I would use myself, but God somehow found in me some potential and entrusted me with a measure of anointing; if you lay hold of that deposit, there is potential for you to obtain your miracle.

Somebody said to me, “How can I get to be like you in the ministry?” I thought to myself, “You don’t actually want to be like me, you want to be like Jesus.” People see God using someone else and they think, “Oh, if I could just be like that person.”

When the crowds saw the miracle at the gate called Beautiful, they wanted to worship Peter and John (Acts 3:2). I would paraphrase the disciples’ response this way: “It’s not because of our holiness. It’s not because of who we are. It’s because of faith in His name that this man has been made whole. It has nothing to do with us. It has only to do with Jesus.”

Ministers are just vessels that Jesus somehow found grace to flow through. In spite of my own failings and weaknesses, my hand to you can represent the nail-scarred hand of Jesus. One day I walked up to a man and blew on him. It was just a little blast; I’ve done it a lot. He felt the rushing mighty wind of God come right through his face. I realized that at that point, my breath suddenly became the breath of God for him. I was amazed.

I am sure that when Peter walked down the road that day, he had no inkling that his shadow would minister healing (Acts 5:15). He was just walking, but that shadow became a point of contact which represented the touch of God to those who were in his path.

Find Your Point Of Contact

You also need a point of contact, a place where you can release or focus your faith. When you do that, a spiritual explosion takes place: your faith is loosed and a chain reaction begins. How it actually works, I don’t know. It may be an angel or the Holy Spirit who comes, or the physical hand of Jesus that stretches down and touches you.

In the meetings, people see Jesus walking in the aisles, angels drifting in the aisles, the glory cloud, the fire. These are all various signs which indicate that He is present. How He does it, I don’t know.

Just imagine your faith suddenly blasting towards heaven. At that moment when it reaches heaven, whether you feel it or not, something takes place. I like it when I feel it, but faith actually dares to go beyond what I feel. It sounds like a contradiction, but it’s not. Faith has a revelation that says, “It’s done.” The moment you get that revelation, it’s over. Regardless of what you feel or how your circumstances appear, it is done at that moment.

It’s now only a matter of time before the chain reaction is put into motion and your answer is manifested in the natural realm. But it is already a settled and finished work in heaven. Faith says, “It’s done.” At that moment, it’s yours. The title deed is in your hand. You may not see it or feel it, but it’s yours.

I don’t know what the leper felt, if anything. Immediately he was made whole…. (Luke 5:13)

Immediately the leprosy left him. “Immediate” in the Greek means, “at once, directly or forthwith.” Then and there it's settled. Somehow, we have to see the immediately in our lives.
Release The Power Of God

I have sensed the touch of God a whole lot more these last few years because of the tangibility of the anointing. God's presence is real to our senses. You can touch, feel, and see God with your physical senses. There is tangibility to the anointing, but if I never saw or felt anything, faith would say, “Yes, it’s done, it’s a settled fact.”

That is what you have got to go for, because if you are moved by your feelings, your circumstances will intimidate you. Your feelings will always let you down somewhere along the way. People who get a healing miracle often become shaken when the symptoms recur in their body a few days later. At the moment they received their healing they walked away bending, shouting, twisting, and rejoicing. But if that pain surges back into that organ, they start to focus on that. Suddenly, it becomes bigger than the healing they received. Before you know it, that health problem has overtaken them once again.

You say, “But what about when my body doesn’t respond, what about when I don’t feel it?” You start to speak what the Word of God says, you start to believe what God says about you as though it’s true. Now, it’s not denying the pain. It’s not saying, “There is no pain, there is no pain.” It says, “By His stripes I am healed.” It says, “I believe, and having believed, I spoke.”

Start Giving God The Glory

Abraham gave glory to God. Start giving glory to God. In the period between the manifestation of your prayer (the beginning of the miracle) and the end of the chain reaction, give glory to God. Start laughing, singing, dancing, running, and shouting, giving glory to God. It will only be a matter of time before that situation will turn itself around.

When Jesus said, “I am willing,” that man believed. From then on, he was healed. When Jesus said, “I am willing,” the leper said, “This is my day.” When you go to the Word of God, you’re going to get the “I am willing.” And at that point it doesn’t matter what you feel, what you hear, or what you see. At that moment, as far as you’re concerned, the hand of Jesus has touched you, and it’s yours.

Faith is the product of your spirit. You can’t build it up in your mind. It’s not a matter of how much you know. People say, “Build yourself up in faith, read the Word.” You can read the Word until you’re blue in the face. You can quote the Word and still not believe it. What you’ve got to do is translate those words into a revelation. Revelation means that it’s yours. It’s when you are fully persuaded that it becomes yours.

It is like healing. If the revelation of healing is yours, you’ve got it. If you have the revelation of righteousness, it does not matter what your failures are, you know you are righteous. There is a confidence. You become fully convinced of its reality. When you get that in your finances, it will start to produce. You start to rest in God.

Build Yourself Up

Read the Word and build yourself up in it. If you’re facing sickness, go to the Word concerning health. Don’t just go to the Word; go to the Word concerning health. You must find an anchor for your faith. Find a place of confidence for your faith in that specific Word and make it yours. Get fully convinced that God is speaking to you. Next, pray in tongues. There’s nothing more powerful than praying in tongues to build yourself up in your most holy faith. Build up your spirit.

Faith is not the product of your mind. You can stand and quote the Word of God, but that is not a faith confession. A faith confession is the Word coming straight out of your spirit. It’s what comes out of the believing heart that counts, so that’s why you want to build yourself up in your spirit.

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

One of the finest ways to build yourself up in your spirit is to worship, resting in the presence of God. Take your thoughts captive. Don’t just let your mind run around; it will wreak havoc with your spirit. You have got to take your thoughts captive so that you don’t get caught up in thoughts which run contrary to the Word of God.

Take Thoughts Captive

If you allow such thoughts to run around in your mind, you’re going to start believing what your mind is telling you. That’s why the sword of the Spirit can separate between soul and spirit (Hebrews 4:12). That’s why you must take your thoughts captive to what God says. (2 Corinthians 10:5).

Christians are defeated by their minds, not by the devil. Strongholds exist in their minds by the thoughts that have been flung at them through the world's system that governs our society and culture. This system is controlled and manipulated by the prince of the power of the air (Satan). If you are not on constant alert, those thoughts will permeate your mind and you will start to believe and eventually act upon what you are thinking. That is why you win your battle in the spirit first, taking those thoughts captive and believing what God says.

Faith pleases God. It is very, very powerful. Jesus was a man of faith. The Bible says that we have precious faith, like Peter, James, John, Stephen, and Philip. We have the same quality of faith that they had.

I pray you will get a revelation of faith that is going to elevate your spirit into new realms of prayer, power, authority, dominion, victory, and worship. Every area will be touched by faith. It will go beyond just believing for things. Use faith for the harvest of souls, the changing of nations, and the building of the Church.

Don't Use Faith Selfishly

Faith gets prayers answered. Jesus said, “If you ask anything in My name, I will do it” (John 14:14). Don’t put limitations on your faith. Ask anything. But in your “anything,” include souls, backsliders, other churches, your city, your country, and other nations. Don’t use faith selfishly. Use faith with a worldview for the gospel and for the kingdom of God. When we get our eyes off what we need and focus on the gospel and others, those little things we need come our way out of the overflow.

But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things [that we think are so important] shall be added to you [anyway]. (Matthew 6:33), [brackets mine]

Seek the kingdom and use your faith for the kingdom. I am not against Christians using faith for things, but use your faith for the kingdom. It will be pure, holy, and very powerful. We had better be raised up in faith because the Word says, “The just shall live by faith.” (Romans 1:17).

The faith teaching may have become distorted or gone out of vogue, but God is a faith God. His Word works by faith. It is brought into our lives by faith. Everything we ever get from God is by faith. When you have revival, you have it by faith. Everything about God is faith. One of the things being restored to the church is faith.
CONCLUSION

Like the leper who came to Jesus, you have needs. He touched God with his faith and God touched him and made him whole. The hand that touched him will also touch you.

* Know that you have access to the living God.
* Come as one who recognizes that you need a miracle.
* Press through the impossibilities.
* Abandon yourself to God.
* Ask God. Faith asks!
* Know that God’s answer is, “I am willing.”
* Get a point of contact and release your faith in God.
* The power of God is released and you are touched by God.

CHAPTER 7 - FAITH, FOOLISHNESS, AND PRESUMPTION

Now faith is the substance (realization) of things hoped for, the evidence (confidence) of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. ( (Hebrews 11:1-2)
Character And Integrity Are Needed

The development of Christian character needs to be taught in church because of the great need for integrity in the Body of Christ today. Christians should be the best workers in our places of employment, always willing to go the extra mile. The word of Christians should be reliable, and we should be honest, fair, and the most loving people on the face of the earth. People of faith and godly character will produce a good testimony.

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because [the report of] your faith is made known to all the world and is commended everywhere. (Romans 1:8, AMP)

For while your loyalty and obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you well versed and wise as to what is good and innocent and guileless as to what is evil. (Romans 16:19, AMP)

Then he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek. He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium. (Acts 16:1-2)

I thank God, whom I serve with a pure conscience, as my forefathers did, as without ceasing I remember you in my prayers night and day, greatly desiring to see you, being mindful of your tears, that I may be filled with joy, when I call to remembrance the genuine (lit. unhypocritical) faith that is in you, which dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am persuaded is in you also. (2 Timothy 1:3-5)

The “faith hall of fame” records all those before us whose faith produced a good testimony (Hebrews 11). Today, other men and women of faith are continually being added to this list. God wants you, too, to be known for your faith and godly character.
Foolishness And Presumption Produce Failure

“Hyper-faith” can lead to foolishness and presumption, bringing embarrassment to the Body of Christ. “Hyper” is a prefix meaning, “over, above, more than normal, excessive.” An example of hyper-faith would be believing God for a new $100,000 car when you are having difficulty right now making the payments on a $5,000 car. Foolishness and presumption go beyond the mind, will, and purpose of God, and get into the mind, will, and purpose of the flesh of man. Desires, imaginations, and special revelations that have not been submitted to the lordship of Jesus can lead people into all kinds of foolishness.

Casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:5)

We are to bring “every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,” which is what protects us from moving beyond our level of faith. Each one of us has been given a measure of faith which can grow by staying in the Word of God. While we are developing our faith to new levels, we need to operate in the level of faith that we are currently at. Some people have tried to operate beyond their level of faith, or on someone else's level of faith, becoming angry at God or at one of His servants because they ended up in failure. Sometimes these people have a difficult time moving back into genuine faith again, and may even become backslidden.

Jesus was impressed by great faith. With patience and a good discipline of hearing the Word of God and using the faith we have, we can be assured that Jesus will be impressed by our faith also. Our faith will then always be growing and producing a good testimony.
Definitions:

* Faith means confidence or trust in a person or thing. Faith acts on what you believe. It is the title deed of what you believe for, the realization of things hoped for. Faith brings hope into reality. We act upon what we believe, because we believe we received when we asked.
* Foolishness means “the lack of sense or sound judgment; imprudence.”
* Presumption”means “relying too much upon; taking something for granted; making unwarranted suppositions not based on fact; the overstepping of proper bounds.”

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. (Ephesians 2:8)

God saved you by His special favor when you believed. (Ephesians 2:8, NLT)

It is by faith, or believing what Jesus Christ has accomplished for us, that we are brought into a relationship with God. It is by faith that we receive all that He has done for us. As we continue in faith, we receive His ongoing provision for our lives.

Some Christians move away from the simplicity of the grace of God and begin to operate outside of faith, ending up in presumption. They forget what He has done for them, so they attempt to obtain the provision by self-effort. They become performance-oriented, thinking that God will have to answer their prayers because their good works have impressed Him and earned them favor with Him. For example, some think that by reading so many chapters of the Word a day, or fasting often, or giving generously, they are therefore entitled to the promises God has for them. However, the reality is that He wants us to receive His promises by faith through His grace. Our approach to God has to be by faith in the accomplished work of Christ alone.

An example of this is found in the life of Abram and Sarai. God gave Abram a promise of a son (Genesis 15:1-21). In ignorance of faith, Abram and Sarai started in presumption, thinking God needed their help to bring forth the promised child. Instead of having simple faith, they tried to help God, thus getting into trouble and birthing Ishmael (Genesis 16:1-16). The name “Ishmael” means, “a wild thing.” God blessed their mistake but did not leave them in presumption. Together with them, we have had to deal with the consequences of Ishmael. How many of us have birthed a wild thing when we’ve moved from faith into presumption, trying to help God bring His promises to pass? There may be blessing upon our effort, but that thing birthed by the flesh will always cause trouble and will keep us from obtaining God’s best.

MOVING FROM PRESUMPTION TO FAITH

The following passages speak of God moving Abram and Sarai from presumption into faith.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations." No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. "I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you."And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name." And I will bless her and also give you a son by her; then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be from her." Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!" Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. "And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year." Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham. (Genesis 17:1-7, 15-22)

Then they said to him, "Where is Sarah your wife?" And he said, "Here, in the tent." And He said, "I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son." (Sarah was listening in the tent door, which was behind him.) Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, "After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?" And the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?' "Is anything too hard for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son." But Sarah denied it, saying, "I did not laugh," for she was afraid. And He said, "No, but you did laugh!" (Genesis 18:9-15)

The Process

God moved them from presumption to faith:

* Reveal Himself to them
* Affirm the promise
* Confront their thinking (unbelief)
* Change their confession by changing their names

God is gracious and rescues us in our presumption and self-effort. In order to bring the promise to pass, God had to move them back to faith from presumption. The following passage reveals how this was done.

Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all (as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations") in the presence of Him whom he believed - God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, "So shall your descendants be. "And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb. He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore "it was accounted to him for righteousness.” (Romans 4:16-22)

Abraham has become our biblical example of faith. Like him, we also can have our presumption turned into faith.

Add The Following To Your Faiith

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. (2 Peter 1:5-7)

In the bold portion of the above scripture, we are instructed to add to our faith virtue (general moral excellence and goodness of character). This speaks of good sound judgment. When God speaks to us, He needs our cooperation of faith (our believing and trusting the promise) instead of our help (our trying to make things happen).

The rest of this lesson will discuss areas in which we believers must use good sound judgment so as not to discredit the ministry by acting foolishly. However, to bring balance to this, we need to understand that what we do and how we live will never satisfy the natural (unsaved) man.

Spiritual Discernment

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

The world, and those who serve the god of this world, will not agree with the operations of the spiritual man (the man of faith and anointing). We will be mocked, ridiculed, and misunderstood, but we need to act in such a way as to represent Christ in order to win them to Him.

FAITH VS PRESUMPTIVE DECISIONS

Many sincere and well-meaning Christians have made decisions that they believed were based on faith, but were viewed by others as foolishness or presumption. Peter getting out of the boat and walking on water doesn’t make sense to the natural mind, but when you have heard the word of Jesus, “Come,” you cannot be moved by the opinion of wet onlookers but will have to obey God.

I trust that knowing how to handle the following issues will bring balance, yet not be seen as compromise to sincere faith.

What About Doctors And Taking Medication?

People have stopped taking prescribed medication, thinking that this was a way of demonstrating their faith. They have been seen as fanatics because of this “step of faith.” If their “step of faith” always produced healing, no one would dare challenge their actions, but when their condition worsens or they die, those around them start ranting against faith. Therefore, the way we handle this situation is critical. We want to see God’s healing power flow and miracles take place. We want to be in faith, so what do we do?

There are a few ways that we can approach this, remembering that each person must be responsible for his own actions. You cannot walk in another’s conviction and revelation; if you copy what others have done but lack their faith measure and experience, you may find yourself facing disappointment and failure. You have to walk in your own level of faith.

Some people have put undue suffering on their children by not giving them medication. They may even consider it a sin to give them an aspirin. Certain ministers have taught that it is sin or a lack of faith for believers to take medication, to go to a doctor or to have an operation. These false teachings and beliefs have done great damage to the Body of Christ. Our faith needs to be developed in the promises of God in His Word. Then we can thank God for medication and doctors while we are developing our faith. When our healing has manifested, we can go to the doctor and let him confirm our healing, allowing God to receive all the glory.

A person who has been suffering with a chronic disease, such as diabetes, has to take daily medication. After prayer, should this person cease taking medication?

I believe that if God has healed your body, the medical tests will confirm it and the doctor will tell you to go off or reduce your medication.

Unbelief is not the taking of medication, but is the rejection of God’s power to heal your body. It is the failure to act or stand on the Word of God. It is the going to doctors without seeking God’s help (James 5:13-16).

If you face a bout of flu or the symptoms of it begin to manifest, start to exercise your faith by resisting these in faith. Start to confess the promises of God over your body. Instead of going around telling everyone how sick you feel, start to praise and worship God. Instead of immediately turning to over-the-counter medications because of your negative confession that you are coming down with the flu, make a spiritual stand of faith. This will allow you to grow in faith. If you can’t stand strong with a minor challenge, it will be difficult should you ever face a severe one.

Don’t force your convictions on other Christians. If you have stood against sickness and have won a victory, don’t be arrogant and think evil of anyone who isn’t healed.

If you do take medication, every time you take it should be used as an opportunity to confess what God’s Word has to say. Here is an example of what you can say: “The report that I believe is what God’s Word declares: by His stripes I was healed. The medication that I am taking is causing my body to come into health and healing.”

To conclude this point, it should be stressed that using medication and going to doctors does not mean that one is in unbelief. Unbelief is not trusting God and what His Word says.
Is It Wrong To Borrow Money?

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. (Romans 13:8)

This scripture is not saying that we cannot buy something on credit or on an installment plan. The word “owe” in this verse simply means “not to be indebted.” We are required by the Word of God to love our brothers and sisters in the Lord and to owe them nothing but love.

Some Christians have taken the above verse to mean: “I cannot buy anything on credit or in installments. I should not buy clothes, cars, furniture, houses or anything on credit.” Some believe that to buy on credit is to partake of the world’s system. They call credit the world’s system, but do they realize that banks are also a part of the world’s system? Should we not put our money in savings or checking accounts either? There are many things in the world that God has given us to use, and though it is true that many of these things are under the influence of the world’s system, they are still permissible for Christians to use, as long as we do not become enslaved to them. Our faith and trust must be in God and His Word, not in banks, credit ratings, or things of the world.

What is sin are actions which discredit the work of God, e.g., a person buying goods even though he knows that he cannot pay the amount. Some will buy goods and say, “I will trust God to give me the amount,” but this is presumption. If God wants you to have it, let Him provide the amount first, and then you can make your purchase.

Writing out a check knowing that you do not have the funds to pay for the goods is not only illegal, but it is sin. Some Christians have made a mistake in their calculations and have written a “hot” check; they need to put it right as soon as possible and apologize to those affected by their error.

To be late in making payments is a discredit to the Lord. I know of ministries that do this regularly because they are “trusting God” for their finances. They are not living in integrity.

“Integrity” is “the state of being of sound moral and ethical principle; uprightness, honesty, and sincerity.” A believer ought to be a person of integrity.

Let integrity and uprightness preserve me, for I wait for You. (Psalm 25:21)

Wisdom has built her house, She has hewn out her seven pillars. (Proverbs 9:1)

He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. (Luke 16:10)

Our integrity often meets its match in money matters. God calls us to be honest even in small details like paying our bills promptly and keeping our lives free from the lust of things that we can buy but will struggle to pay for.

In all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility. (Titus 2:7)
Is It Wrong To Have A Credit Card?

Credit cards are not evil; it is the misuse of them that is evil. We live in a society that has developed a system of banking that makes it difficult to move about in travel and business without owning a credit card. For example, for a traveling ministry not to have a credit card makes it almost impossible to get a hotel room or rent a car. Without a credit card, it would also be very difficult to purchase airline tickets. What if a family decided to go on vacation in another state or country, but could not get a place to stay because they had no credit card to reserve the room. It would require traveling with lots of cash, which in these times is unwise.

Because of a weakness in their flesh, some believers cannot afford to have a credit card. This does not make credit cards bad. If a person cannot say no to his flesh, he probably should not have a credit card. The problem arises with a believer who has never let his spirit have control over his flesh. Such a person needs to pray and get into the Word of God to build up his spirit and learn to buffet his flesh. This is called self-control and is the evidence of a life that is Spirit-filled.

The key to having a credit card is to never spend more than we can afford. If we can’t pay for it, we should not buy it. This way, when the bill comes in next month we have the money to pay it off. If we follow this principle we will never become enslaved to the credit system. We will not have to pay the bank an outrageous interest for our purchases. We will not be serving the credit card but it will be serving us, making our business easier and safer to conduct.

Budgeting is also a good way of curbing uncontrolled spending. If it is not in the budget we can’t buy it. The way into the land of prosperity from the land of lack is through the land of even. Budgeting is a good tool to help us come out of the land of lack into the land of even, on our way to the land of prosperity.

As Christians, we need to pay all of our bills punctually. This is a good testimony to our creditors. The Bible says that “the borrower is servant to the lender” (Proverbs 22:7), so if we don’t want to become servants to our creditors, we need to pay our bills on time.

A good alternative to a credit card is a debit card. In order to make any transactions, you must first have existing funds available to pay for them. These cards are great for such things as the supermarket, gas, hotels, and car rentals. You are not paying interest and not living on high percentage credit; you may be using plastic, but it is actually the same as using a check.
Should I Work?

Some have departed from the faith, thinking that they no longer have to work. They think they can just stay home and use their faith to supply their living expenses. This is not faith! Doing work and earning a salary for it does not mean that you are in unbelief.

Some have even thought, “I will go into the ministry so I don’t have to work.” The late Kenneth Hagin said, “Ministry is spelled W-O-R-K!” I believe people should first learn how to work before they go into the ministry. This way they can bring good working skills into the ministry and they will be a good example for other ministers they are training. A pastor looking for workers in the church should look for people who are faithful workers at their place of employment.

Young married men in Bible school should work at least a part-time job even if their wives are working full-time. They are to be a support for their family even when they are in Bible school training for the ministry.

This is a common act of foolishness that you will find among Bible students and others who say that they are called by God into the ministry. These “pseudo-spiritual” people believe that if they pray and study the Bible, God will move upon someone to pay their bills. This is not God’s way!

God’s way is for you to work. Even those who are called into the ministry ought to enter the ministry from the place of success in the business sector. Entrance into the ministry is not because you don’t like working, but because you are proven in your church and you have the reputation of balance and order. From this place of security you can help those who are struggling in life.

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

He who has a slack hand becomes poor, but the hand of the diligent makes rich. (Proverbs 10:4)

The hand of the diligent will rule, but the lazy man will be put to forced labor. (Proverbs 12:24)

Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful; But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper. (Psalm 1:1-3)

Note that it says, “whatever he does shall prosper.” The word does here is an action word. God wants to bless the work of our hands.
Should I Have Insurance?

This seems to be another area that is a stumbling block to Christians who have the erroneous idea that to walk by faith means that one shouldn’t have any insurance: no automobile insurance, no fire insurance, no life insurance, and no medical insurance. Is that really walking by faith? Is that what faith really means? I don’t believe so and I believe it is wrong to instruct someone that this is faith.

Fire insurance does not stop fires. Medical insurance does not stop sickness. Automobile insurance does not stop car accidents, and life insurance does not stop death.

Insurance is available to help us. It can stop the devil from taking everything we own. None of us plans on having an accident, but we do not live in a perfect world and situations happen. No one plans on having a fire or a sickness, but if these things do happen, it helps to have insurance to cover the costs. Automobile insurance is now mandatory in many states, so therefore in this case we must obey the laws of the land.

Having an insurance policy is not wrong or faithless, but speaks of order and budgeting for the needs of your family. Government funds can help certain individuals who have no insurance, but you could face a serious financial struggle if you do not meet their criteria. There are caring Christians who will help people in their times of adversity, but it would be better to make sure that your home, car, health, and family are all cared for. However, we do not trust in these funds and policies. Our trust is in God.
Casting Out Calories

Some people have tried to cast out the calories of the food they are eating, thinking that this will enable them to eat anything, and as much as they want. All food has calories. The problem is not the calories or food, but overindulgence and gluttony.

All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. (1 Corinthians 6:12, NAS)

Casting out calories or binding up calories is not faith but foolishness. It is a misapplication of Scripture. The Bible does not teach such a principle. We need to use our faith to put our flesh down. Those who fall into this category need to learn to control their appetite instead of being controlled by it.

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. (1 Corinthians 9:27)

We all need to learn from Paul’s example of living a disciplined lifestyle. The issue is not casting out but putting in. Christians need to exercise self-control and eat a healthful diet, thereby taking care of their bodies.
Believing God Not To Get Pregnant

Some young married Christian couples believe that they can do what it takes to make babies, yet not become pregnant. This is foolishness! God gave the command to mankind, “Be fruitful and multiply” (Genesis 1:28). God has never revoked this commandment. We still have the power to be fruitful and multiply.

While the earth remains, seed time and harvest, cold and heat, winter and summer, and day and night shall not cease. (Genesis 8:22)

The power is still in the seed. Couples who want to wait on having a family need to find an acceptable form of birth control.
Claiming A Particular Husband Or Wife

Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them. (Mark 11:24)

Some read this verse and say, “The Bible says I can have whatever I ask for; therefore, because I ask for this man to be my husband (or this woman to be my wife), I receive them and that's it.” But this is not what this verse means. Nowhere in the Bible does God give one person authority over another person’s will. Both people will have to agree before they can be married. God will not force one person’s will over another just because one person desires it.

You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. (James 4:3)

There is nothing wrong with desiring a mate, but believers can get into trouble when they claim a particular mate based on intelligence, body shape or height, hair color, etc., instead of claiming the mate God has for them.

Faith, which is trust in God, will say, “God, I believe you have the right person for me. You have prepared them for me and have prepared me for them. I trust you are working to bring us together in your perfect timing.”

A related issue in which people can fall into foolishness concerns being instructed by false prophets or ministers to leave a spouse and be joined to someone else. Such “prophecies” clearly go against the Word of God and should not be acted upon. Some “prophets” have given single people a word that a certain person was to be their spouse. They then married based on this word, only to wind up in a miserable marriage ending in divorce. You cannot choose your future partner for life through a word. There must be other checks and balances to protect you from making mistakes in these important areas of life. Marriages are to be entered into as a covenant before God and one another, and therefore should not be entered into lightly. Love and a strong friendship are foundational, together with your mutual faith in God (don’t become unequally yoked). Sharing your entire lives together requires more than a word from a prophet.
Living Within The Laws Of The Land

Note the following scriptures:

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. (Romans 13:1-7)

Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation. Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men - as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. (1 Peter 2:11-17)

We are to live according to the laws of the land, whether or not we agree with them. We obey the laws because this is the will of God. The only exception to this is if we were required to renounce our faith in Christ or to defile our conscience through commanded compromise. In this case we would obey God rather than man, even if we face imprisonment or death as a result of our righteous stand.

So they called them and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.” So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way of punishing them, because of the people, since they all glorified God for what had been done. (Acts 4:18-21)

Don't Break The Law And Expect God To Fix Things

* It is wrong to claim God’s protection while driving over the legal speed limit, but it is foolishness to then wonder why God didn’t protect you when you receive a ticket.
* It is wrong not to put on your seat belt if the law requires you to wear it. You want to be a good steward of the money God gives you and not have to spend your money on court costs and fines.
* It is wrong to withhold or cheat on your taxes. You should be willing to pay them because Jesus said, “Render…to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21).

The life that a Christian lives should be a good testimony before God, other believers, and the world. Therefore, it should go without saying that an essential part of that testimony requires obeying the laws of the land.

CHAPTER 1 - DEFINITION OF FAITH

Faith is the “parent force” of all that exists:

* The natural world will respond to faith.
* The spirit world will respond to faith.
* Everything that can be contacted with the five physical senses is subject to the force of faith.

Though “the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” ( (Genesis 1:2), nothing happened until God spoke. As He spoke, the Holy Spirit took the substance of faith that resided in His words and performed what He said.
THE IMPORTANCE OF FAITH

Some teachers have taken a stand against what is known as the “Faith Movement.” It should be noted that there is no such thing as a “faith movement.” Jesus Christ is not building a movement, but His Church. This Church is certainly going to be a people of faith.

God knew, without a doubt that the desired result would be manifested

And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18)

The redeemed of the Lord are saved by faith and live by faith. All that they accomplish is by faith. All that they ever receive is by faith. They pray the prayer of faith. Miracles are wrought in faith.

Faith Teachings

In the 1980’s, there was an emphasis in the Church (undoubtedly Holy Spirit-induced and sustained) on what is known as faith teaching. Men and woman of God such as Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Gloria Copeland, Oral Roberts, Jerry Savelle, Charles Capps, Fred Price, and many others began to deal with subjects such as healing, deliverance, prosperity, and the confession of words. “Word” churches were raised up, and with this “awakening,” there were many miracles, many salvations, and many positive results from this kind of ministry emphasis that was touching so many people. At the same time, there were ministers who were offended, mostly because of the following:

* Members were leaving their churches and joining these new “independent” churches.
* Traditional and Pentecostal churches declined in numerical growth and were affected financially.
* The new churches were exploding numerically, and prosperity was in their midst.
* On the negative side, certain teachings were extreme and even appeared to be erroneous when looked at outside of their context.
* People were confessing health; some stopped medication and some died. This was seen as the product of “faith,” so “faith” teachers were blamed when these people’s conditions worsened.
* Books were written to challenge the teachings.
* The media attacked the new churches and their leaders.

Despite all the negatives, the failures, the indiscretions, the excesses and the lack of experience and wisdom, the positive impact of the awakening of this teaching continues to this day. The dust has settled. The pendulum has stopped its swing. Now we can study the Word of God and gain insight into the subject of faith, learning how to tap into the positive and avoiding the errors and extremes of the negatives.
WHAT IS FAITH?

* Faith is the “parent force” of all that exists
* Faith is the product of the recreated spirit
* Faith is not a teaching or a movement, but is the very life we live
* Faith is what grants us access to an open heaven

Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; but the just shall live by his faith. (Habakkuk 2:4)

Note that “the just shall live by faith.” Therefore, we could say that faith must be a way of life.

Some have thought of faith as an instant “get-rich-quick-scheme,” a panacea for all ills, a parachute to bail out of all problems. However, faith is not so much a means of getting things, but rather it is what brings us into relationship with God so that all of heaven’s resources become available to us. Faith is a way of life.

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” (Romans 1:17)

But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” (Galatians 3:11)

Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him. (Hebrews 10:38)

The just - those who have been justified by the blood of Jesus, who have been made righteous, declared forgiven and restored in relationship with God - shall live by faith.

Faith is not a denomination, church, or religion.

Certain terms which have no validity or basis in the Bible have crept into our everyday language. For example, we have all heard the question, “What faith are you - Catholic, Protestant, Jewish?” To ask a person what faith he is, is a misuse of the biblical word “faith.”

For we walk by faith, not by sight. (2 Corinthians 5:7)

Sight refers to the sense realm. We who are in Christ should be walking by faith and not by what we perceive with our sensory mechanisms. Too often, people have a relationship with God that is based on emotions, feelings, and sense knowledge.

As long as you walk dominated by your senses, you will be unable to walk consistently by faith.

Therefore, we can confidently say that when our senses are dictating information contrary to what the Word of God has revealed to us, we choose the truth, i.e., what the Word of God says. Faith always chooses what the Word of God declares. What our senses declare is not permanent or fixed, but is subject to change. Facts change, but truth is unalterable and therefore supersedes facts. What God’s Word reveals will stand the test of eternity. As the prophet Isaiah said, “The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8).

And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. (Romans 4:19-21)

In this text, we see that Abraham (known as the father of faith) believed God. His body declared that he was too old, and those around him were in agreement with the obvious, but God had spoken. God’s Word to him was that he would have a son. Even though his body, feelings, sight and sense knowledge was communicating the opposite, his faith would bring him into agreement with God and would release God’s power into his body and circumstances; he would receive his miracle. Abraham believed God; Abraham had faith. He walked by faith and not by sight.
A Product Of Our Recreated Spirit

Faith is not the product of the mind but of the spirit. Faith is not “positive thinking,” though negative thinking will destroy faith. It is not produced by reason or by study, but by the heart. Because of this, the walk of faith appears to be irrational or irresponsible to the natural man or “carnal” Christian. Note the following from this text:
Abraham's faith was strong.

* We ought to seek to have strong or great faith. Too many Christians are satisfied with weak faith and don’t want to exert effort into growing their faith.
* Jesus never commended weak faith but always commended strong or great faith.

He didn't consider his age.

“And Abraham’s faith did not weaken, even though he knew that he was too old to be a father….” (Romans 4:19, NLT)

The Greek word for “consider” is “katanoeo,” meaning “to behold, consider attentively, discover, to fix one’s eyes or mind upon.” So here we see that Abraham did not fix his mind and eyes on the reality of his age and body, but he chose truth, which was the Word of promise given by God.
He didn't consider Sarah's age.

His faith would not only cause him to look beyond the obvious in his own body, but in his wife’s as well. In other words, his faith would work even into the realm of someone else’s circumstances.
He believed the promise of God.

“He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief….” (Romans 4:20, KJV)

This word “waver” or stagger comes from the Greek word “diakrino,” meaning “to separate oneself in a hostile spirit, to oppose, to be at variance with oneself, to hesitate or to doubt.” Abraham did not separate himself from God’s promise through unbelief. The word for “unbelief” in Greek is “apistia,” meaning lack of faith or weakness of faith.

We must guard against this negative force called unbelief because it can stop us from receiving what God has promised. Like Abraham, we want to receive everything God has promised us, but the only way to accomplish this is through the force of faith.
His faith was strengthened.

The purpose of this study of faith is not only to examine what faith is and how it operates, but even more, to become strengthened in faith.

Two Important Keys

There were two important keys that Abraham had which kept him strengthened in faith. (There are other ways to be strengthened, but this verse tells us how Abraham was made strong.)

* He gave glory to God
* He was fully convinced that what God had promised He was able to perform

By gaining insight into these two principles of faith through meditating on them, we too will be strengthened.

* “To give glory to God” means to worship God. This is not passive, but is an act of your will and involves your words. Abraham got his eyes off his impossibilities and looked to God. When you look to God you must worship Him. As you worship God and bless Him, He begins to bless you.
* “Being fully convinced” or persuaded that what God had promised He was able to perform, clearly indicates that Abraham made up his mind. He would not be double-minded. The double-minded person cannot receive from God (James 1:6-8).

When I consider difficult times and how I received miracle breakthroughs, I had to get to this point of being fully convinced. When I could train my spirit man to rise in faith above my circumstances, I was single-minded. God had promised and God would do it! That meant taking every thought captive. It meant the ruling of my circumstances by the declaration of God’s Word, even when it looked like nothing was happening. You will remember that in Abraham’s case, for years it looked like nothing was happening, but all the time Abraham’s faith in God’s promise was producing in his body and in Sarah’s body. Their impossibilities were being changed. Eventually, the provision, Isaac, came forth.
More Than Believing God’s Word

Christians get good teaching regarding God’s provision. They hear the Word of God and they like it, so they believe it. While they are enjoying God’s provision they believe it, but what do they believe when the provision appears to have dried up? Your faith in God, or in His Word, is really revealed when there is an apparent contradiction. When you believe in God’s provision from a convinced heart even when your circumstances are contrary, it is then that you know what you believe.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. To an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith - the salvation of your souls. (1 Peter 1:3-8)

My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. (James 1:2-8)

Act On What You Believe

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? (James 2:14)

We are talking about faith primarily as it relates to God, but the principle of faith works the same way in the natural world. If you say you believe something but fail to act on what you believe, although what you may believe may be true, historically or scientifically, you will get no benefit out of it until you apply it. You have to act on what you believe in order to get results.

For example, you say that food will nourish your body and keep you from starving to death, which is true, but you can starve to death in the middle of a supermarket if you do not eat. Merely believing will not keep you from death. Faith believes God and His Word. Therefore act on the Word of God. Be a doer of the Word.

Faith without works is dead. (James 2:20)

Most of the time this verse is used with respect to salvation, but James is not talking about salvation here. Most people have interpreted this to mean that if you are saved you will act like you are saved, but here he is talking about the operation of the principles of faith. He is saying that if you say you have faith but do not have the works to back it up, then it will not do you any good. He is talking about actions that correspond with faith.
Faith Pleases God

Jesus never rebuked anyone for having too much faith. He chided the doubters, “O you of little faith” (Matthew 6:30), and “How is it that you have no faith?” (Mark 4:40).

And when He came to the disciples, He saw a great multitude around them, and scribes disputing with them. Immediately, when they saw Him, all the people were greatly amazed, and running to Him, greeted Him. And He asked the scribes, “What are you discussing with them?” Then one of the crowd answered and said, “Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not.” He answered him and said, “O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me.” Then they brought him to Him. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth. So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood. And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.” Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” (Mark 9:14-24)

Remember: Without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6). To put it another way, God is pleased with faith.

Faith is not merely a spiritual force to obtain things, but is to be developed to do great exploits for God.
FOUNDATIONS OF FAITH

Faith is based upon a two-fold foundation:
God's Word Is Truth

God and His Word are one. He cannot be separated from His Word. His Word has integrity that is beyond reproach. Just as His nature and character do not change, neither does His Word. God’s Word is His bond and He will not break it.

Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. (John 17:17)

“Truth” can be defined as “the quality of being in accordance with reality, genuine, loyal or faithful or constant, conforming to the appropriate standard.”

We base our belief on what we know is truth, i.e., the Word of God. Because His Word is truth, it cannot lie; it is always totally dependable and reliable.

…God, who cannot lie… (Titus 1:2)

Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven. (Psalm 119:89)

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

God's Word Is Living And Powerful

If the Word of God were inconsistent and only worked sometimes for some people, how would we ever be able to know if we were part of that select group at that particular time? God’s Word is not like that; we can depend on it. We must treat God’s Word as a stable foundation. God will never alter, change, forget, or neglect His Word.

As human beings, we may change or forget our words or even God’s Word, but He “is not a man that He should lie” (Numbers 23:19).

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)

Then the LORD said to me, “You have seen well, for I am ready to perform My word.” (Jeremiah 1:12)
Faith Is Based On God's Character

My faith in God is not only dependent on what He has said, but is also based on who He is. The fact that God is good means that He can never be evil; therefore, I can have faith in Him because of my confidence in who He is.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. (James 1:17)

Good gifts come from God who is unchanging. Just as His unchanging Word gives me confidence for faith, so God’s unchanging nature also gives me confidence for faith.

Because faith is from God, it is what connects me to Him. Therefore, I approach Him not only because of what He has said, but also because of who He is.

Joe- we are constantly changing our website. J.O. mentioned how you pointed it out and is talking to Admin's about getting it up there I believe. You have to remember how strong changes have been happening all along at our church. That we are very much still figuring things out as we go along, like how to church plant for example. This course was only recently grafted into part of a necessary curriculum because we saw the lack you are pointed out on the website.

I cant begin to pick this apart. Look at how many times he (DRL) speaks against the extremes. Looking forward to talking with you about this in person.

If you could, print this out and highlight your fears in what is said. We'll talk about it. Something you could have easily done with VJ or JO but nonetheless I'd love to hear what you specifically have to say instead of everyone else's opinions.

Brothertom your words do not fall on deaf ears. Thank you.

hi, if you run from error , you will never stop running...and it is hard to run from yourself unless you are perfect. this is obviously a private matter and should not be argued in public. i read the statement of faith and if you pick sentences out of it you are not doing it service for its aim is balanced truth . i would not get out of bed to hear most wof preachers and have dined with ken hagin and heard him many times. i belonged to the same church and ministered with jesse duplantis and know him well. i know of the rediculous excesses in this group. but,hath not God said if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that you will be saved .is it not true that Gods principals work for the saved and the lost also. eat the fish and spit out the bones and love the people and pray for them.jimp

hi,some of you have the same feelings toward this as the jews had to the horrible samaritans. Jesus made a missionary out of one and used the other to put down those who judge without seeing the hearts of those judged.the only thing worse than a semaritan was a tax collector and oh Jesusdined and felowshipped with one.we need to be more graceous to one another.the church is made up of evil men and women who for the grace of God would be avoided at all cost.jimp

You are ignoring the multople times he denounces the extremes, evem with wxample situations!

I have known this man for 5+ years and have never walked away from a sermon thinking I have a higher authority than God.

The problem here is once you boldly talk about what we have access to as children of the Father you are affiliated with that movement.

Did or did not Christ say "I go so thay you can do greater things than these"? Please read Matt 12:25-32 & Mark 9:38-41.

Many find safety in ignoring the power of the Holy Spirit. Because of fruity flakes they wish not to associate themswlves with they stay on the other side.

You have to know the fruit of this mans ministru much like our church.

One could easily look at all of Wilkersons false propheciea that never came true and write him off and never give credit to all those saved jnder his ministry.

You don't know this man. I don't see anything quoted here that says we are above God but rather we can do so much more than sit in a pew every sunday.

And if you follow the logic of the Lord detesting any mix that isnt perfect not a single church or its members would qualify. He mentions the movement and names but never says "and I agree with everything they have said". What I see here is a ton of scripture with an encouragement that the church of Acts was not only for its time period. That Christ didnt die to merely get us in heaven but as sons and daughters we can glorify the Lord in praying for the sick and believing they can be healed.

The Corinthian church was worth correcting...it wasnt a church everyone should flee from.

Brother Soulrider,

I understand your dilemma because I still struggle with a correct balance on “word” doctrine; I blame the nay and fear-sayers for it!! LOL The pessimists who always “warn” you of all the bad things (but never really tell you what the bad things are) and I’m not just talking about sermonindex fear-sayers, I’m talking about the ones all around us day in and day out. And I’m personally getting tired of the ones around me. My desire is to believe the truth of the Scriptures not someone else's version of it.

I'm going to be honest, I like to read but I’ve never read anything Kenneth Haggin has written because of these same people!! LOL Never mind about my idiosyncrasies, I’m going to get a book on my kindle to read it for myself.

Anyway, I did run across a book from 1932 by John A. Macmillan who was a Philippine missionary and he wrote “The Authority of the Believer.” This is an excellent book!!! This is a book by a man who had to deal with demons and the authority God gave him (long before all the ‘word people’ got hold of the idea)... I only mention this because I think it would really help you to read this particular book and see what he learned from God in 1932 before all this craziness started. (If you have a Kindle, amazon has it for .99 cents.)

Table of Contents
Chapter 1 – The Authority Defined
Chapter 2 – The Source of Authority
Chapter 3 – The Rebel Holders of this Authority
Chapter 4 – The Divine Purpose of the Age
Chapter 5 – The Extent of this Authority
Chapter 6 – The Failure of the Church
Chapter 7 – The Qualifications for Authority
Chapter 8 – Fear
Chapter 9 – The Practical Exercise of Authority
Chapter 10 – The Final Outcome of Authority

We cannot argue the truth of the Scriptures and the one that Phoenix stated, “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Brother, before you dig your heels in on this issue perhaps you should fast and pray and seek the wisdom of Christ on this matter, not what I am telling you, not what Phoenix is telling you and certainly not what you are telling yourself and what the nay and fear-sayers are telling you but Christ Alone.

God bless you, brother,
Lisa

You still have yet to meet the man who said all of this. I refuse to believe our church can be compared to mormonism and the like by the fruit of teansformed lives.

Joe himself admitted the presence of the Holy Spirit when attending our chuech before reading this document.

If said document said what it said without noting the movement youd declare it hidden and even worse.

Ill say it again: our church is the type that let Joe who came all of 2 weeks take a "Word of Faith" he felt drom the Spirit of God which was for our whole church to take a moment to pray and focus on lost relatives.

This would never happen at nwarly every church in our area...who are afraid to vocalize what they feel thw Spirit is saying lest they be compared to the Word of Faith movement.

You have yet to step foot in our church or know the grwat solid ministry of said author. He had a sermon series of is saints being bought at a price. That we are not our own but His. So many teachingas on the authority of God. Never elevating us over Him.

Once again. The same could be said about Wilkerson. He "hears the Spirit" aay things that never came to pass. Stop writing off who you don't know. This is very unfair.

It really is a shame. Joe has known me for 7 years and Im sure he could admit Ive never sounded like I felt I had authority over christ.

I'm going to have to end my time here. I thank you all for giving an ear to my explanation before about the fruit of transformed lives we have seen from people who have become members of our church (like the two former Navy men). People who have come to Christ through our outreaches feeding the poor, missions trips, our prison ministries, soup kitchens, etc.

People who have given up drugs & alcohol and joined any said ministry above, who have been transformed into a New Creation in Christ, amen.

We believe in salvation through Christ and Christ alone.

My prayer for you all is that you would commit to a group of believers which is the Church. We can sit here and criticize everyone who has a ministry all we want, but I have no clue who I am responding to on here and what their background is.

It's easy to criticize those who preach and lead a ministry than to actually do it yourself and subject yourself to the same scrutiny.

I keep checking this thread and I need to stop defending myself to people I don't know, and who don't know me.

I so look forward to a sit down with Joe, and if Joe would have stuck around would be able to meet the man who wrote this and discover he is nothing like Copeland.

We all have a measure of error in our way of thinking, or we'd be perfect. Our church has gone through transformations of it's own, "Seeker Friendly" snuck in, then the pendulum swung and we were all about letting the "Spirit Move" and now I'm excited we have found a balance of order but also freedom (like how Joe was able to take the mic and pray for lost relatives as I explained below).

We are going to continue to go to the poor that live under the bridges of our local town an host "church" there, as well as visit the most remote tribal villages beyond and preach Christ crucified for our sins.

Be blessed, thank you for your time.

PhoenixDBR,

Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I really enjoyed your last post, because it spoke volumes brother, and I hope you see this post.

I pray that you will receive His amazing grace in the ministry like never before. Preach Christ and him crucified to a lost and dying world and may you follow on to know the Lord in all His fullness. I hope you have tremendous fruit for Christ and see multitudes saved and delivered through the power and blood of His cross.

I have notice that you have just recently come to SI and do not know anyone or much about this site, but there are some wonderful people on SI as well as sad to say, some cold-hearted people who judge everything and everybody.

I post this only to encourage you in the Lord to receive all that God has for you in the ministry. Don't let others condemn you, only let the Lord reprove you where necessary, for He is the one that we serve ultimately. Stay in prayer before the Lord and let Him direct your steps. Be honest and open with God to the leading of His Spirit.

May God richly bless you,
rbanks