Billy Graham Endorses NC Marriage Amendment Before State Vote

Wish there was a like option hehe

Thank you Mr. Graham!

Thank you brother Greg for posting this. I needed to see it. The article goes on to say that Graham usually doesn't get involved in the political arena but as one baptist associate point out that they believe the reason why He did this time was because He saw this as a moral issue and He felt He needed to take a biblical stand for God's standard.

Brother I usually avoid politics and never bring it up in my local church but I believe their comes a time when God's people need to vote for biblical principles when they are being destroyed right before our eyes.

The media fueled by "the haters of God's morals" are always trying to portray christian people as haters because we believe in God's standard of right and wrong. They accuse many God fearing Christians who actually love all people and desire to see them saved and live a holy pleasing life unto the Lord, as hating homosexuals, because we are against their sin. They accuse us of hating them when actually they are really hating us because we strive to honor God in the clear teachings of the bible.

True Christians don't hate homosexuals but desire for them to be saved and experience God's love and holiness. I feel that we must desire to see God's institution of marriage between a man and a woman stay that way, for a society of people, for our children's sake, and most of all for morality sake in honoring our creator who is a holy God.

Blessings...from brother rbanks

rbanks..Brother I usually avoid politics and never bring it up in my local church.

This is why this Country is in the shape it's in morally, no one wants to get involved anymore. The Gays and the Government has created a snowball effect, that is only going to get larger.

This is not picking on your at all personally, this is just a general statement.

You know there are just some things in the Bible that are supposed to happen according to God's word in the end times, things that we as Christians condemn. Are we just suppose to let these things happen if there in Gods plan? or, are we supposed to fight back with prayer, and will prayer even work if these things are in Gods ultimate plan for the end times? I have always wondered if anything is in God's plan for the end times, no matter how much we condemn them, is our Prayers in vain? I know God answers our Prayer, if of course we are walking the correct path in life, but how would he answer a Prayer against something that he has destined for the end times?

This is why this Country is in the shape it's in morally, no one wants to get involved anymore.

I agree however, not with the involvement as far as it goes for your destination. Involvement in what? I think that is of great importance. Your next statement seems to me as it were, well, wrong?

The Gays and the Government has created a snowball effect, that is only going to get larger.

Can we justly finger point and blame others when I believe it is the believers in Christ who have bowed their knee to the world and because of that God's judgement has come. Do we rightfully judge the world or do we judge one another inside the body?

You know there are just some things in the Bible that are supposed to happen according to God's word in the end times, things that we as Christians condemn. Are we just suppose to let these things happen if there in Gods plan? or, are we supposed to fight back with prayer, and will prayer even work if these things are in Gods ultimate plan for the end times? I have always wondered if anything is in God's plan for the end times, no matter how much we condemn them, is our Prayers in vain? I know God answers our Prayer, if of course we are walking the correct path in life, but how would he answer a Prayer against something that he has destined for the end times?

I wonder the same exact thing.
edit: Wanting to just express my point and say that I don't want to come off harsh or judgmental. Perhaps I have misunderstood you and in that case please forgive me. It seems that for some of us we look at the judgments of God and place them on unbelievers when it is very clear that He deals with those He has called with consequences, either good or bad, based on the called out one's response to Him.

Brother Bill I disagree and agree with you also brother.

Jesus never got involved with the political systems of this world because His kingdom is not of this world.

I believe God judges each individual according to the light that they reject and also the light they refuse to walk in regardless of the end times prophecy of the scriptures.

Each person in the final analysis will get to decide which side He will choose to remain on whether it is God's or the devil's. The world is going toward hell and destruction along with all the religious systems of the world but the decisions we make is according to the light we receive not according to prophecy of the scripture or someone's understanding of end times prophecy.

Blessings...from brother rbanks

Jesus never got involved with the political systems of this world because His kingdom is not of this world.

While it's true that His kingdom is not of this world it is also true that "The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." All the nations are the Lord's and we need to get out of the world's mindset that puts a separation between the sacred and the secular. We need to speak boldly in the public forum and declare the living God as the only solution to man's predicament just like Paul did on Mars' Hill.

We are not of the world but neither must we be indifferent to it. If the "Epicureans and Stoicks" of our day are found in the political public forum then let us declare the "unknown" God unto them in word and deed.

In Christ,

Ron

Amen and Amen brother Ron!

I believe in doing this without being involved in any political system of this world.

We need men and women full of the Holy Ghost, not holding signs or picketing places just be filled with the Holy Ghost and proclaim Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world.

Blessings...from brother rbanks

by rbanks on 2012/5/5 9:46:39
Amen and Amen brother Ron!

Isaiah 9:6
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Now I've asked a few leaders in the church I attend, it was a prayer meeting amongst the ushers, if the government rested on Christ's shoulders and to my amazement they said no, one I think didn't quite answer at all. I believe God Almighty is in full control!

All the nations are the Lord's and we need to get out of the world's mindset that puts a separation between the sacred and the secular.

Which is what Jesus was saying when he said, "Render to Caesar's the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." We can't divide the sacred from the secular, or separate the church from the state. To do so is a deadly theological trap.

All the nations are the Lord's and we need to get out of the world's mindset that puts a separation between the sacred and the secular.

by KingJimmy Which is what Jesus was saying when he said, "Render to Caesar's the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." We can't divide the sacred from the secular, or separate the church from the state. To do so is a deadly theological trap.

This is hard for me to grasp, and to put into action. Can you explain how this plays out in a Christian's life? Through prayers only or?

None of this however has anything to do with being part of the state as far as these verses teach. Voting, or involving oneself in politics,

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's" is a more than just Jesus coming up with a clever way to tell people trying to trap him to pay their taxes. Indeed, this instruction was given to a people who were trying so hard to not involve themselves with the government of Rome, that they were considering measures as radical as not paying their taxes. After all, they just wanted to be a holy people of God, and wanted nothing to do with their Roman oppressors, who forced them to use money that paid worship to Caesar upon it.

Far from being a clever saying to get His would be persecutors off His back, Jesus was attempting to give them a new perspective. For their perspective was one that created one common to many of us in America. And it is quite a worldly perspective. It is a perspective that separates the sacred from the secular, and the church from the state. It creates a fragmented world. And such a perspective, when taken to its extremes, creates Amish communities in one hand, and Communist nations in the other.

This is hard for me to grasp, and to put into action. Can you explain how this plays out in a Christian's life? Through prayers only or?

I believe this plays out in very practical ways, say for example in a town meeting, where the Christian can declare that our present problems just might be related to how our society has been insincere in regard to the question of God.

Our society is happy to allow us to have our Sunday meeting and our conferences and such, but when it comes to secular matters, the church is no longer consulted or even considered a valid voice. The sacred and the secular have been separated and the church has capitulated.

We need to present the truth that if God is God then it is better to hope in His solution than to trust in the power of men that historically has ended in disaster. The world's problems are clearly beyond a secular solution and it's time to speak up. Let people scoff but let God's word be heard.

America doesn't have to go the way of European nations if the church will intercede and get her voice again.

should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8:19-20)

In Christ,

Ron

I think that there have been some great points raised. I was discussing the issue of "gay marriage" with a Christian guy that I knew during college. He said, "If it doesn't bother me, why should I care?"

I explained that the state redefining the concept of "marriage" is just one goal of homosexual activists. They also want to outlaw what they would call "discrimination." They define this as speaking against homosexuality, refusing to hire a homosexual or refusing to extend certain benefits to the homosexual or his/her spouse.

While most states offer a "clear conscience" clause to churches, the same would not be extended to other organizations. If you are own your own plumbing business, what would happen if a transvestite wanted to work for you? If you didn't hire him -- because you present your business as "Christ-centered" -- you could be sued for discrimination. If a ministry runs a small non-profit Christian bookstore or coffee house, you could be sued for "discrimination" for refusing to hire a homosexual or for refusing to extend benefits to the "spouse" of some person who "came out of the closet" after already being employed there.

In other words, these things WILL affect all people living in this world. Some people -- particular those on the political Left -- constantly argue against any religious or spiritual influence in government. Yet most of those same individuals are either silent or encourage other views or morality to be pushed upon society.

Like it or not, we live in the earthly land where we dwell. While we maintain a citizenship in Heaven that takes preeminence over an earthly "natural" citizenship, we still live in this land until the time for which we pass to the realm of Eternity. Until the last few centuries, individuals did not have an opportunity to choose those who would govern or have any say in the laws of the land. Yet, even those who practice "physical and spiritual separatism" like the Pilgrims, Amish and others have a form of community government in which the people either form or consent to the laws/rules. That consent is demonstrated by remaining in the community to which the governance is accepted.

None of us are hermits in a spiritual or physical sense. We live in a nation on this fallen world. Most modern nations are governed by "consent" or the collective voice of the people. Voting in elections or in regard to "propositions" is merely an indication of that "voice." When Jimmy spoke of an inability to refrain from "participation" in a different thread, I think that this is what he might have meant. Silence is a form of participation in a society that is governed by "consent." It is literally "consenting" to the status quo by simply refusing to get "involved." Yet, involvement is not necessarily "political" (in the modern connotation of the term). It is simply sharing what you think in an official capacity.

In this instance, I agree with what Billy Graham said. I never thought that homosexual activists would become such a vocal movement that they would be able to impose their view of morality upon society and force society to not only recognize their depravity -- but to accept it legally. There are individuals who would love nothing more than to impose their sexuality on churches and treat believers as if they are the "radical" ones. This is why many of them also hope that those who disagree with them -- especially Christians -- refrain from sharing that voice in elections and when laws (such as propositions or amendments) are put up to an official vote.

Well said Ron. If we are to truly go into the nations and teach them to observe all that Christ has commanded, then that means we need to stand up and tell them what thus saith the Lord. And we should expect them to respond. And they should respond and govern in light of what is said.

Exactly Chris. We are a society whose government consists of the consent of the people. And where we deliberately refuse to participate in voicing our perspective as Christians, our lack of participation is participation, even if by means of passivity and omission.

And even in countries that are totalitarian and communist, the church still has a responsibility to speak up, and declare God's will to the rulers of her land. I mean, look at the apostle Paul. When he was a prisoner on board of a prison ship, he spoke up on several occasions, and told the captain of the ship how he ought to direct his ship. And he did that as a prisoner!!! He didn't do it as somebody who even had the right to voice his opinion on that ship.

Hi Jim,

I don't think that it has anything to do with "striking hands with the catholics and mormon churches" any more than saying that it is "striking hands" with them to go fellowship with a congregation (since they believe this as well). The Catholic and Mormon "churches" are in gross error and it has nothing to do with their opposition to homosexuality and abortion. Those are authentic BIBLICAL principles that two cults happen to share.

Remember: It is those cults who happen to embrace only certain portions of Biblical truth...and not the other way around. Thus, there is nothing ecumenical on the part of believers when those cults agree with the Bible on certain issues.

As for the issues of "helping the poor," immigrants on our own soil and seeking peace with all men:

I think that the problem with this statement is twofold. First, it implies that there are some (particularly "Conservatives") who don't believe in helping the poor, proper immigration or living in peace. And, it implies that it is an elected government's responsibility to take the money of taxpayers and disperse it to the "poor" in America. Those are assumptions that just aren't true.

I don't know anyone -- conservative or liberal -- who doesn't believe in helping the truly needy as a moral prerogative. It is the broad extent of that help which is often in question...and the idea about how just it is for the government (often rather than fathers) to raise children. There is a direct correlation between families with fathers and a much lower reliance upon government assistance. And, there are "need-based" organizations who operate under devilish means (like Planned Parenthood and other abortion groups).

I saw a young woman standing outside of our local Walmart asking for donations. Usually, there is a local Church standing there seven days a week asking for donations. However, the woman stated that her organization is trying to "increase access to birth control and abortion" for the poor and needy. So, any question about the proper way to help those in "need" or the extent of an elected government's role is legitimate.

The same is true about immigration. My wife is an immigrant to the United States. However, she did it legally. She worked as a migrant worker for much of her childhood. The issue about secular governments waging "unjust war" is moot in the sense that no one votes for individuals based upon promises of going to war. Moreover, I don't know anyone who believes in an "unjust war." They all think that the war is "just" before they get involved in such a situation.

Still, this is an interesting question. I have noticed that those who are often the loudest against government involvement are often quite vocal about government grievances. Many of those who don't want believers to "participate" in government are often either quick to enjoy the benefits of living in that country (invoking "rights," collecting tax returns, driving on government-built roads, using government-regulated internet, using the post office, etc...) or they argue that the government of consenting people should be responsible for a Biblical mandate to take care of the poor.

Many of these "secular" decisions are simply decisions about what is right, wrong or a better choice for a particular position. Like I said, the push for "homosexual marriage" will have an effect upon the Church. As pointed out, there are legal requirements that are tied to it. A Church -- including one that doesn't enjoy tax-exempt status -- could face legal scenarios that could be extremely costly in terms of money, time and concentration.

The same lawsuit scenario is true for small businesses owned or run by Christians who don't want to hire a homosexual, transvestite, etc... who might get angry if you don't offer them a job. There have been situations in which Christian bookstores have been sued because they did not hire homosexuals in a state where "sexual preference" was added as a factor in "discrimination." There have been "hate speech" laws in some states that have restricted the content of tracts and religious literature.

While it is certainly plausible to do this if the scenario arises, it could be averted or prevented if believers simply said what they thought about this issue during a statewide proposition or amendment comes to a vote.

I apologize for digressing from your post. However, I do think that we sometimes incorrectly associate voting "yes" on an amendment that retains the traditional definition of marriage as the same as "striking hands with catholics and mormons." In this case, it is supporting an ancient Biblical and moral definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman.

The Book of Esther is an interesting anecdote in this case. She was a Jewish woman married to a pagan king (who chose her, oddly enough, because of her physical beauty). Haman hated the Jews and wanted them destroyed (one of Satan's long-time plots...next to killing children). This was the political concept of "genocide." Esther faced a choice: She could have just left it into God's hands or risk her life by taking the step to voice her concerns with her pagan husband. Esther chose to share her voice to the king. By the grace of God (because the heart of the king is in the hand of God - Proverbs 21:1), the king acted on behalf of the people of God.

Brethren I don’t mind stating my belief. I believe in the whole counsel of God. I believe in the church being separate from the State because the Kingdom of God in not of this world. I do not and will not try to get things done through politics but only by the Spirit of God.

I have been bought with a price and am not my own. I strive to stay filled with the Holy Spirit to minister to others by the Spirit and also to influence others to the Lord and His ways by the Holy Spirit. I don’t look to see what any moment of this world is doing or not doing to see which way I’m going to go and do. I pray and listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit and strive to act accordingly.

Marriage is a holy institution given by the divine wisdom and kindness of God who said it is not good for man to be alone so he made a help mate for him called woman. Male and female he created them and God never said that this was best for a man and a woman to be united in holy matrimony called marriage but he actually also said that uniting in any of way like men with men or women with women was an abomination in his sight.

Now you guys on here that seem to be more spiritual on here as in finding fought with everything else, well the end doesn’t justify the means. Now if there comes an opportunity in the region where you live to vote for God’s holy institution that he set up for the good of society and all people, and you want to stay home and talk about all the other problems in the so called church and do nothing with your vote for God’s Word then that is up to you. Then you can answer to God for all your complaining and doing nothing concerning God’s holy institution but as for me I will cast my vote for God’s Word on marriage. I may can’t stop a society from going to hell, but I am not going sit by on my hands and let a society go to hell quicker, because I didn’t want to get involved. The bible says that if the foundations be destroyed what can the righteous do. How do you think that it will better for society and the little children if people who believe in God’s institution of marriage sit home and let all those who hate God’s standard of marriage go to the polls and eventually change God’s holy institution for society? Do you not think that more innocent children will be violated and more ungodliness will abound? Do you not think that God sets up laws in the land to protect society? Do you want little children to be taught to grow up and marry either John or Jane? Brethren if I didn’t vote for God’s standard of marriage having the opportunity to do so, then it would be the same as “to him who knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin.

Blessings…form brother rbanks

Andrew so you are saying that you would encourage christian people not to vote and just let people change a godly institution.

Just wondering...blessings form brother rbanks

I don't have a clue why this is considered newsworthy. Billy Graham the little idol of the evangelicals endorses a marriage amendment bill, big woop. So does Mitt Romney, so does the Pope. So do many other apostates.

Bless you too brother Andrew!

Trekker don't you ever have anything edifying to say!

Trekker do you know how to be a blessing to people or do you just like to be contentious. I really find it hard to post with continually negative people who have nothing edifying to say. Its seem you enjoy being miserable and love to make others miserable but brother I have joy unspeakable and refuse to receive such a depressing kind of spirit. I pray that you will stop being negative and I pray that God will change you to be more edifying to people.

Blessings…from brother rbanks

Trekker....I don't have a clue why this is considered newsworthy...

Guess we all here could say the same about your post. You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, or is the coffee pot broken? :)

Trekker,

Not all people you don't like are totally wrong in all things.

I was active in the pro-life movement for fifteen years. It used to disturb me that it was the Catholics who led the fight against abortion before the evangelicals and others ever woke up that there is a problem here. Considering what was done in secret by Catholic priests and nuns it does seem as a contradiction in morals, nevertheless, people did benefit from their activism in spearheading the public's awareness of the evil inherent in the AB industry.

Do you know that when I got involved 25 years ago there were people in our church that knew little or nothing about abortion? I, a woman, had to educate them about the seriousness of this procedure. So, then, I am grateful for those who do sound the alarm even though I may not agree with them theologically. Truth is truth regardless who says it.

Just my two cents...not worth much - won't even buy a piece of candy! SIGH