Help with reformed vs charismatic/pentcostal

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richrock May 9, 2012

I've laid off writing this for some time, trying again and again to put the right words in place... And I've never found it.

Praise God I found this site, and the members of the forum seem largely very sound, one mind, and quite biblical.

God 'refreshed' me some time ago, I experienced a period of weeping for days - this has now transformed my prayer life, my worship and much more... I read quite a lot and came to a natural conclusion that I have become quite 'calvinist' if I were to apply such a label.

As such, I attend a church, formerly Charismatic, now moving toward Pentecostal - we have a new pastor who comes from an AOG background. It's great we have new leadership, but looking at the plans (we're going to be getting Ken Gott speaking for instance - something about that makes me nervous), I'm worried that we're just looking for the signs and wonders, and not fixing ourselves on Christ to let Him do the work.

It's been a dark week for me - our service last Sunday I was stone-cold bored, as we sung three songs in an hour-long worship service, with long periods of 'free-worship', which normally involved singing in tongues. All I wanted to do was sing songs of praise to our saviour.

What do I do? Trying to talk to people has led to arguments (with both my wife, and my friends), close Christian brothers and sisters seem distant now, and yet my concern for the lost, even for those in our fellowship increases. I am at the point I have to tread on eggshells when discussing theological issues with my wife, and I know that's not healthy to start with.

I'm frustrated that it's all about 'Joy, peace and happiness' (not that I have a problem with those) and not about getting right before a Holy God. I saw a man preaching in the street in our town today, that moved me more than last Sunday's sermon. We have a prayer meeting tonight, and I feel a nausea about it - like they're going to do something that will involve a 'fire tunnel' or we'll end up chanting or laughing or something else - none of which seem biblical to me in my regenerated state.

Really, what do I do? The more I seek God, read His word, the more conflicted I become... I feel an intense pressure about what I see as false teaching, and an absolute uncertainty about how to deal with it. I just want to cry out and say 'Enough!', or to weep for the state of the Church...

I would really appreciate prayers and sound biblical wisdom in what to do. If this hasn't made sense, ask and I'll try to explain it better. I just needed to get the ball rolling. If I've posted in the wrong area, I apologise and will move the thread elsewhere.

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sermonindex May 9, 2012

I dont have time right now to write too much, but I can give you some things to be cautious about... if I may.

Be very careful of chasing after signs and wonders. I think you already know that after reading what you wrote here. The Bible talks a lot about signs and wonders at the end of the age, and those who would chase after them and also heap teachers unto themselves that would tickle their ears. Nothing wrong with teachers! But we must be careful and discerning.

The other thing is do not depend on your feelings as your guide. We all experience times in the desert… and man, when I’m in the desert it’s very easy for me to think God has abandoned me and I should just give up. But God never abandons. Just because you may not be “experiencing” the same feelings during worship as you have at other times doesn’t mean something is wrong with your church. Although it might mean that!

Basically you need to submerge yourself in the Word of God and in prayer. If possible, take a day or 2 and go stay overnight somewhere away from everyone and pray and read and seek God. I have a friend who owns a lodge here in the mountains. Every once in a while I call him and he and wife get a room ready for me… and I go be alone for a day and a night… and seek the Lord.

You need to do something like that.

I cant tell you what you need to do beyond that. I don’t know you or your church or the situation. I will say that even though Pentecostals and Charismatics are our brothers (unless they are off on some doctrinal tangent… like Oneness Pentecostals), if you have definite leanings toward Reformed theology you may grow uncomfortable with some teachings they will have that are contrary to it.

So there ya go… don’t know if that helps, but I tried.

Krispy

PS: Oneness Pentecostals teach against the orthodox teachings of the Trinity, and also some other weird things. Their Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. They are considered to be a cult. Famous OP's are TD Jakes and the music group Phillips, Craig & Dean.

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sermonindex May 9, 2012

HI Rich, I am formely from Scotland so I know something of the Charismatic movement in Britian and the Pentecostal movement. It is in dire shape and everything you wrote in your post brother is right on. Fire tunnels and laughing, oh brother I say flee from these things. I am a , brother, baptized in the Holy Spirit, tongue speaking and unashamed of the gifts. I love feelings and I love your weeping and your closeness, never be afraid of these things, just always be led by the Word of God and the Spirit of God. Do not lean towwards a theology, lean towards God and let Him lead and guide you. When the Spirit shows you false teaching then let HIm show you these things, He did promise us that He would lead and guide us into all truths. As far as your wife is concerned, you are going to have to be led of the Spirit in these matters. Speak the truh in love at all times.

I also know how difficult it can be to find fellowship in Britain, and Europe. The choice always seems to be dead religion or people who run after signs and wonders and who are " charismaniacs," for lack of a better phrase, I really do not like that word for it seems very degorative and I still love these people, they are just so lost, sheep without shephards. Yous just stay close to Jesus Rich, press in closer to Him. I do not promise you an easy time, in fact I know you face difficulties but the Lord will be with you. I will be praying for you Rich, God bless you in your journey. Trust in Jesus and lean not on your own understanding and He will direct your paths bro..............bro Frank

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murrcolr May 9, 2012

Richrock where in the UK do you live?

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beekpr May 9, 2012

Dear friend,
I believe that the Holy Spirit is leading you to recognize a spiritual deception. I have had repeated experiences in which I have encountered supposed "manifestations". After I sought counsel from the Lord, it was shown to me what I was seeing was a counterfeit of the truth. Religious experiences from God draw people to a deeper appreciation of Biblical truth, repentance from sin, a comitted walk of holiness and true fellowship with God. When people seek sensational experiences instead of a closer walk with a holy God, they open themselves up to decieving spirits.
Regarding the response of your wife, I would recommend intense intercessional prayer for her in private for a period of time if bringing up the subject creates strife. Too often we try to do God's work in the flesh without waiting for the cue from Him. Be prepared for a battle in the spiritual realm. Will pray,
David

P.S. By the way, I am neither "reformed" or Pentecostal. I like to read the Bible without the "opinions"

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richrock May 9, 2012

@murrcolr I'm based in South Wales, UK. Bit far from you up there in Scotland!

@appolus - Praise God you know something of the situation. It comforts me greatly to know that I am not alone in this.

I thank you everyone, for the replies thus far. I have attended this fellowship for all of my Christian life (17 years), you could say I knew no different. Saying that, Christianity was a little different then :-)

No, I'm not a chaser after signs - but I've never stopped anyone from doing so until recently. Once I mentioned that these were foolish I got such violence in the response... not good.

I used the label 'Reformed' loosely - it's merely a more accurate label to describe the things God has revealed in me. I would agree, I do not want to lean on any one theology, but to lean on the sound doctrine that is revealed through the word, through prayer and seeking God alone.

I just continue to dive into His word, praying for God to reveal and expose things around me, but inside I feel the battle is so hard. My only outlet thus far are these posts I've written about it. This has been in me for some months now, and is not going away.

Thanks beekpr for your advice - I pray for her daily in this, and have learned hard lessons from trying to sort this out too much too quickly :-( .

Finally - I'm not advocating any particular movement or theology, nor am I going to name names/specific places. I don't want to falsely accuse, slander or knock someone down specifically. I just want peace in my heart about what to do.

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Lovefirst May 9, 2012

Hello Rich,

Your post is a startling realization that I think many in the body of Christ are coming to see, some have for many years. I won't say I have awesome advice as I'm a new Christian, born again of His Holy Spirit 16 December, 2010! Praise God! He has been leading me into a whole lot in the past year and a half (almost). One of the things are these things you spoke of that are not biblical and we know who is behind it.

It's been a dark week for me

As others have mentioned, He is always with us. He is so Faithful! I have been through many days of darkness, sometimes I feel I may wither away because I feel the life of His Spirit, so it seems, far away but He always restores me. He will always do the same for you too! To be honest, I spend a lot of time alone with the Lord when I can. When I go to a building, where believers meet I usually feel so gaurded! I don't like that but I'm very aware of the time I live in and must also protect my family from anything the enemy might try to sale me.

God will bless you brother! And I'm so happy to hear the kind and thoughtful responses posted above. It truely brought a tear to my eye to see love and concern.

Bryan

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iceman9 May 9, 2012

Good response Krispy.

I'll be praying for you richrock. There is a famine in the lands brother; a famine of the Word of God. Man cannot live by emotionalism alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.

Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

D

DEADn May 9, 2012

My goodness, it is my view that charismatics and pentecostals are brothers of each other. 3 songs in one hour is what I would call a mantra. Did they constantly sing a stanza over and over again? It causes the mind to go numb. Speaking in tongues such as you describe would cause me to leave simply because it sounds so spiritual but is it really? I believe this type of practice has been prostituted. You will not find the practice of tongues, hardly, outside of the penetecostal/charismatic church. Why is that? Is it because they have the 'power'? NO, it is my opinion that they work it up as a circus and expect others to follow their lead and be 'spiritual'.

Somehow you need to speak to your family tenderly about yoru concerns. When you get a sharp reaction of arguments over it this tells you something is very wrong! I had this happen to me when confronting a friend over people like Kenneth Copeland. If I couldn't say anything nice at all then don't say anything- I need to speak positive things is what she told me. Spiritual discernment lacks in these crowds and when an argument ensues it is because spiritual discernment has been thrown out and they don't want to acknowledge that they are not discerning. It is a very deceptive thing to get caught up in the pentecostal atmosphere, in my opinion..

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iceman9 May 9, 2012

"Spiritual discernment lacks in these crowds and when an argument ensues it is because spiritual discernment has been thrown out and they don't want to acknowledge that they are not discerning."

Well said DEADn.

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jimp May 9, 2012

hi, the greatest sign for the tongue talking community is the facts of the evangelization of the earth and who is doing it and the results there of . in china and cuba and south and central america and africa it is millions of converts to christianity and in moslem countries ; more people are converting to charismatic christianity than to allah.jimp

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wijnand May 10, 2012

I think a lot of people have anwsered your questions already, but let me say this:

In my country (The Netherlands/Holland) it's the same thing as in the UK. For some years I have been strugling and in the end I couldn't stay any longer and left the Evangelical church (that is like pentacostal). There are - as far as I know - no biblical church near to us. So when we left, a couple of month after that we started a church with 5 people. At this moment we have 9 adults and 2 children. God is doing a work in our midst even though there is a lot of attack on us because we speak about repentance, faith, born again, etc.

But I just wanted to let you know that there are a lot of people (brothers & sisters) in the same situation as you.

A question, you said: "I am at the point I have to tread on eggshells when discussing theological issues with my wife, and I know that's not healthy to start with."
You mean to say that you and your wife aren't in unity on theological grounds? Then maybe that's your most important point to pray for!

And for the rest: Pray, Read scripture, Obey and trust Christ!

That God may bless you,
Wijnand

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richrock May 10, 2012

Many thanks all for your responses. This is the sort of response I would expect from a site such as this.

@wijnand - yes, we are now at almost opposite ends of the spectrum, and we have talked some about it, we agree on the core issues of salvation, repentance, faith etc. She comes from a heavy 'bible-thumping' family, and has difficulty approaching the word. I pray she would continue reading (she does is stages) and that God would change her in time. It's tricky, and I have to trust God absolutely that He would reveal His truth in His time...

Our worship consists of periods where we can reflect, pray or sing out in 'free worship'. I was bored, I wanted to sing declarations of praise but the atmosphere would have made me sound so ridiculous...

All that has happened to me convinces me that there is no end-time revival, but we are in a stage of falling away, like we are slipping gradually towards a precipice.

I know this all sounds negative - but it's not. I'm glad that God has revealed it to me, and I am glad that He has given me a passion to love Him and be utterly submitted to Him, whatever the cost, obeying His word as best as He allows me to.

Thank you all.

D

DEADn May 10, 2012

All that has happened to me convinces me that there is no end-time revival, but we are in a stage of falling away, like we are slipping gradually towards a precipice

Interesting thoughts. I agree with the revival part of it. Too many times I have heard of 'revival is coming' and then I see what it supposed to be revival fall on its face. I can't believe that God would cause something to happen that would fall on its face. I also think we tend to look for what is happening in America as the basis for what God is doing and I think that is short sighted as well.

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sermonindex May 10, 2012

HI Rich, you said ...........

"All that has happened to me convinces me that there is no end-time revival, but we are in a stage of falling away, like we are slipping gradually towards a precipice"

We almost agree :) The falling away part bro I believe has already happened, here in the States too. If one lived in Britian and saw churches over here, mega churches, some with 40,000 people in them, they would think that the falling away was still some way off, but, from my standpoint, it has already happened. Now, as to the revival, what I believe is that God is going to revive His people, people who genuinly know Him, and people will be saved through this as God pours out His Spirit in the end days. At the exact same time as this outpouring, an outpouring of majesty and glory and holiness and weeping, there will come persecution upon them. It would be kinda like the 10 virgins, they are all virgins, they all have lamps, they all sleep, but at a time of the returning of the groom, they awake and the oil in their lamps in lit. I believe that God is awakening His people, and what you described as happening to you, and our dear brother from Holland ( God bless them) is part of that awakening, the beginning of it, coinciding with the birth pangs. Love you brother , take care............bro Frank

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sermonindex May 10, 2012

hi, the greatest sign for the tongue talking community is the facts of the evangelization of the earth and who is doing it and the results there of . in china and cuba and south and central america and africa it is millions of converts to christianity and in moslem countries ; more people are converting to charismatic christianity than to allah.jimp

Praise the Lord! Any time God chooses to move and call men unto Himself it’s a good thing! And God uses the entire Body of Christ. Throughout history God used many of the Reformed persuasion to spearhead great revivals, evangelistic movements and missions world-wide. He has also used many who were decidedly not Reformed, like the Wesley’s. Based upon that I’m not sure it validates one sect over another… but it actually validates that God will move and utilize whoever He wills. The glory of such a movement, revival or whatever you want to call it should never go toward the vessel (Charismatics, Reformed, Methodist, etc), but always to God. I know that’s not what you were saying, but felt the reminder was needed.

Krispy

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narrowpath May 10, 2012

God bless you brother Richrock and welcome to SI !

I can understand what you are going through. I have been there and many of us, too.

Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.

Where are you based?

L

learjet May 10, 2012

The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are symbols representing the choice between the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue) and embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality (red).

Welcome to the red pill brother!

Brother frank gave you some great wisdom, there are a bunch of us, don't get discouraged (bro tom, jimdied2sin and many sisters as well).

Much love!

J

jimp May 10, 2012

hi, for forty years i ministered as a reformed charismatic and do not understand why there is so much divisivness in the church about a lot of stupid things. we are to have gifts following our ministry nd ,like paul , not just with words but proof. in mexico there was a man who started over ten churches in his lifetime ,each over 2000 members without any help from the us that you would know about him,all self supported and with mexican pastors. he also trained many other men in his bible col. but you have never heard of him.this is happening around the world . you are basing your biased opinions on what you know which is understandable.God is still moving on the earth in a mighty way. in my city we fellowshipwith a group of churches, some are baptist,some charismatic ,some reformed with the idea to win baton rouge to Jesus Christ. i recommend all of these churches and tell people to go where God leads you.it is ultimately up to you to make your church a success or failure in your life.jimp

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DEADn May 10, 2012

hi, the greatest sign for the tongue talking community is the facts of the evangelization of the earth and who is doing it and the results there of . in china and cuba and south and central america and africa it is millions of converts to christianity and in moslem countries ; more people are converting to charismatic christianity than to allah.jimp

Are you saying that it is the pentecostal/charismatic people who are doing evangelization and making converts in this world? If so is it based on the fact that they speak in tongues? If so I see a flaw here.

It seems to me that if we are relying on tongues for evangelizing then we are treading on deception. Doesn't scripture even say that even if we speak with tongues of angels and can prophesy but have not love we are nothing? Love and truth go hand in hand in conviction to repentance. Tongues can be so deceptive.

I don't condemn tongues but I do wish to make my voice heard when I hear tongues being elevated to something it shouldn't be. When it is exalted as if it is some spiritual gift that if any christian doesn't have it then they are not with God. This is the danger those in other countries encounter when swept into charismania. If I am wrong may God, in Jesus, show me my error. I only share this based on my experience within pentecostalism and what they esteem highly.

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jimp May 11, 2012

hi, no that is not what i said.who is God using today to do His work?jimp

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Lysa May 11, 2012

The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are symbols representing the choice between the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue) and embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality (red).
Welcome to the red pill brother!

I love that movie reference!! I often refer people to take the red pill myself!! LOL

God bless bro!
Lisa

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sermonindex May 11, 2012

Are you saying that it is the pentecostal/charismatic people who are doing evangelization and making converts in this world? If so is it based on the fact that they speak in tongues? If so I see a flaw here

It seems difficult from reading Acts and Corinthians together to resists the connection between speaking in Tongues and having Power from on high as a necessary gift to serve God in His strength and not our own; in regards to evangelisation. The difficulty for me is when the emphasis becomes Tongues and not Power.

Acts speaks of Tongues but the emphasis is clearly power as can be seen by Peter's first evangelistic work. The tongues at Pentecost were evidential, or a bearing witness to the many who had gathered in the vicinity of the room the disciples were waiting in for that very power. Whereas 'tongues of fire' were evidential to the disciples themselves. The Lord emphasised the need for Power when he commanded the disciples to 'wait'. The evidence seems to bear witness of itself. The Power gathered in thousands of souls.

Corinthians shows that the gift of Tongues however is the least of the Gifts of The Holy Spirit. Not that we should despise anything given By The Spirit. One cannot change Scripture, even if our personal experience seems to contradict what is taught by It. If this personal experience of Tongues appears to be the focus for saints who having experienced it then quiet reasonably they may want to emphasis it. But it is the least of the Gifts of The Holy Spirit. Where we see this gift coming into its own effect is in the area of personal wrestling either in our own lives, because we are grieving the Holy Spirit and a sudden expression of this Gift can be a true release of Power outworking to our own good benefit. Or similary when we are wrestling with a burden which we don't even understand fully regarding a purpose of God; which to the one excessing the gift is a mystery. I think the reason why evangelism seems to be seen in the light of the Gift of Tongues is not because of the gift, but because of the power which comes from the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is easy to understand why Tongues is a concern for many saints because of the seeming 'risk' of being deluded by unclean spirits into a false expression where the power lies in the soul instead of coming out of the regenerated spirit. Many of the skewed doctrines today have been taught by men and women who emphasise Tongues as an evidential proof of the Power of God. Tongues cannot be the power of God. The Holy Spirit Himself is the power of God. Tongues is simply a Gift of The Holy Spirit for edification, not evangelism. Some of these thoughts are personal, based on experience and some of them are clearly demonstrated in Scripture.

Andrew

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jimp May 11, 2012

hi, receive power to be My witnesses...jimp

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sermonindex May 11, 2012

...receive power to be My witnesses..

Yes. Amen brother. Just so. Thank you.

Andrew

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richrock May 11, 2012

@narrowpath - I've said I don't want to reveal specific locations, but will gladly say I'm living in south wales UK, fairly rural, about an hour from Cardiff (not saying which direction :D)...

I rejoice that God has revealed Himself in this way, that this is an incredibly hard path, narrow and also difficult considering my change from the 'old Christian' to the 'new Christian'. The difficulties around the change of belief and of those with my wife are paramount prayer points, and of next importance is those who do not know Him.

I'm ordering tracts, and seeking to just go out and preach when I'm not working. This is borne out of a spiritual frustration that God has laid on me, largely due to the 15 years of Christian 'comfort' I have experienced so far.

Why? Because in my formative years as a Christian, someone once used the 'preach the Gospel, and if necessary, use words' to me. That was death to me. Sure, live a lifestyle worthy of the Gospel, but surely that means we go out and tell people right?

It angers me that we are content to just tell people we are Christian and give little or no reason why - this is something God is challenging in my heart and mind, I'm mulling this over almost constantly.

If you are praying for me, please just simply pray that I would meet people of like mind who would be able to encourage each other, not seeking wonders, but simply the very heart of God, which I firmly believe is to reach those around us with the Gospel. From that I think the wonders will come, people will believe, and be healed, not always of infirmities, but of the very sickness of sin itself.

Sorry, started rambling on there.

S

Solomon101 May 11, 2012

1 Cor. 14:4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies, (builds up and recharges) themselves.

Jude 20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,

Romans 8:26 the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans

These a few examples of what scripture shows as the purpose of PRAYING in tongues. First it is to empower, recharge and energize the believer. Thus The Holy Spirit said through Paul in 1 Corinthians that he wanted all believers to speak in tongues. Tongues also enables us to pray beyond our limited knowledge as seen in the Romans verse listed.

The "gift" of tongues mentioned also in 1 Corinthians is for a totally different purpose. Paul makes clear that it is to MINISTER TO OTHERS. This is the specific tongue that he states not all would speak in. However, the prayer tongue is for all. Paul makes that abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians 14.

If we would do an exhaustive study of all applicable scriptures we would also find that there are three specific and unique types of "tongues" mentioned in scripture. Each has its own function, purpose, and place within the framework of a Christian's life and ministry to the world.

We should not be surprised that there is confusion or at times divisiveness over this issue. Any weapon, or gift , that God has given enabling believers to become spiritually recharged and energized will be fought against by the enemy. The ability to further pray beyond our limited knowledge and instead specifically for the things The Holy Spirit knows needs to be prayed for in the way it should be prayed for is something the enemy will fight a great deal also.

Perhaps there is a connection between the power resident in Paul's ministry and the fact that he told the Corinthians he prayed in tongues more than them all!

D

DEADn May 11, 2012

I am not against the act of speaking in tongues now. What I am against is the spiritual badge people are given and give themselves because they think they do such a thing and yet have no power and have taken the entire 'gift' out of its context. I find it a dangerous and disillusional thing to play with.

Suppose someone speaks in tongues there is no power. What does that mean? And yet how much of spiritual discernmenet is there through it - speak gibberish and it is of God. How many people know how to discern it? Yes, there is a prayer language of tongues but biblical we read that it was spoken as a act of proclaiming God in a language the speaker didn't know to someone who did. I.E. if I began speaking French proclaiming God and there were French people around here the gospel.

Did Paul speak in tongues? I just think tongues has been prostitued to be a spiritual badge and those who don't are made to be inferior when many who speak in other tongues don't even love as they should according to the power of the Spirit.

S

sermonindex May 11, 2012

DEADn... tho you may receive a lot of flak by some here for posting that, I think what you said is extremely valid.

There is a snobbery that takes place. I would not dare say that it only comes from the tongues speaking side, but also from those who do not believe in it.

This should not be.

There have been some here who have told others that they need to pray for more power in their lives... meaning tongues... so they can be more effective and walk in a deeper way.

Thats an amazing thing for people to say to others on here that they have never met.

Krispy

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DEADn May 11, 2012

Yes KK. I say what I say out of personal experience in the assemblies of God and Church of God crowd. There is always the big debate between that crowd and the more fundamental crowd. I always seek to tell the more fundamental crowd to read the portions of scripture dealing with tongues more carefully and not to your denominational bias. I tell the pentecostal crowd to not think more highly then you are and discern, with denom. bias what tongues are really for. In the end if a christian cannot love and discern maturely and they speak in tongues they really have a problem!!

S

sermonindex May 11, 2012

In the end if a christian cannot love and discern maturely and they speak in tongues they really have a problem!!

Clanging cymbal... or a gong.

Krispy

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Solomon101 May 11, 2012

@ Deadn

You stated

What I am against is the spiritual badge people are given and give themselves because they think they do such a thing and yet have no power and have taken the entire 'gift' out of its context

That made me laugh! I totally agree. Tongues are a tool/gift given by God. It is His grace that bestows them on us so any pride one takes is absolutely in error.

you stated

Suppose someone speaks in tongues there is no power.

Evidently that happened at Corinth at times as well. Nothing new under the sun is there? Probably in those cases you have immature Christians that do not comprehend what has happened. However, please don't fall into that trap of judging the truth of God's Word by the actions of some people you see. The blood of Jesus saves and delivers. However, you and I have both seen people that professed Jesus in word but lived a life that denied it. You won't abandon faith in Jesus blood and delivering power because some people seemed to not have an experience that matched His Word would you?!?! Of course not! Don't let the immaturity of a few become a stumbling block on the blood of Jesus, the gift of tongues, or any other Biblical truth!

You stated

Yes, there is a prayer language of tongues but biblical we read that it was spoken as a act of proclaiming God in a language the speaker didn't know to someone who did. I.E. if I began speaking French proclaiming God and there were French people around here the gospel.

Well... yes that is true in 1 of the three types of tongues. That is only 1 type. It is certainly one of them but by no means the only type. It was generally not the most common in either Biblical times or ours. You can't just throw this multifaceted gift all into one type. There are other administrations of tongues in scripture that are totally different in their purpose, manifestation, and design than the one you mentioned.

You asked

Did Paul speak in tongues?

Absolutely! 1 Corinthians 14:18 "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you".

Keep in mind that Paul wrote this to the most Charismatic and tongue speaking church of the New Testament. It was so much a part of their corporate worship that Paul placed limitations on it in his letter. So... with that in mind how much must Paul have been praying in tongues? That thought coupled with the verses I posted earlier may hold a key to one reason Paul manifested such power of God in his ministry.

You stated

I just think tongues has been prostitued to be a spiritual badge and those who don't are made to be inferior when many who speak in other tongues don't even love as they should according to the power of the Spirit.

I am sure that has happened often to people over time. However, the exact same could be said for Calvinists, Lutherans, Assemblies of God, or any of a thousand other things. The feeling of "I'm superior" is not unique to folks who pray in The Spirit. In fact I know many people that feel they are superior because they DO NOT pray in the Spirit. They claim they are to smart and advanced to believe that non sense. In fact a few of them I know are seminary teachers. So what-

Deadn... for you, and any of us, the question is simply this. Do you want all of what God has to enable you to live a victorious Christian life and to fulfill your call and ministry on the earth. If the answer is yes then ignore the people that have a wrong attitude about the gifts and seek the gifts for yourself. Find people that DO have maturity and understanding about them. Allow those folks to help you along the way. Take God's Word as it is written and avoid allowing others to do theological gymnastics with it to make it fit their own personal viewpoint.

You will then make yourself a good example knowing personally how much it is needed. You go ahead and manifest the gifts AS WELL AS living a life full of the fruit of the Spirit.That's really all the issue is about in 1 Corinthians. By all means be used in the gifts... but make sure you are also clearly manifesting the fruit of the Spirit. THAT is how the trumpet is to sound clearly!

In short, YOU are responsible for whether you allow God to move in those ways in your life... not some guy who has a wrong perception of the gifts. DO NOT allow that to be used as a tool to rob you and keep you from more in Christ. That is what the enemy would want.

L

Lysa May 13, 2012

Solomon101,

I just wanted to say how much I, for one, appreciated your timely response on 2012/5/11 6:29.

God bless you brother,
Sister Lisa

J

jimp May 13, 2012

hi, i was a somewhat backsliden evangelist who battled satan tooth and nail was confessing my sins to the Lord and told Him i needed help for i was a lousy christian and i emediately began to speak in tongues never having been in a pentacostal church. my friend wrote a paper at the baptist seminary on why tongues were not for today ... a month later was praying for his mother who was in a comma... with no results he cried out for the same power that the apostles had in acts and received on the spot... he prayed for his mom and she was raised up. does this make me or will any better than you ?no,it just was God meeting our needs at the time we needed strength from above and as we ;alone in our prayer closet pray in tongues ,are built up in our Holy faith... it is probably because we are weeker that God helps us.jimp