Who is "The LORD"?

Who is The LORD in these verses?

Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am He.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 21:1-7 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
And He said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My son.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Isa 60:19,20 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Isaiah 25:8,9 He will swallow up death in Victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.

Isa 30:18,19 And therefore will the LORD wait, that He may be gracious unto you, and therefore will He be exalted, that He may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for Him. For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: He will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when He shall hear it, He will answer thee.

Eze 48:35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, "The LORD is there."

Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the Name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, "The LORD our righteousness".

Zec 2:10-13 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. And the LORD shall inherit Judah His portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again. Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for He is raised up out of His holy habitation.

Mic 4:1-5 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god,
and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.

Zec 14:3-9 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: but it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and His Name One.

Isa 2:2-4 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in His paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the Word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Mal 3:16-18 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His Name. And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Dear Onemite, I had the same reaction to these verses as you are expressing. "His greatness causes a great welling up within me." Amen!
As I found them by following Torrey's 'Treasury of Scripture Knowledge' in the e-sword, cross-referencing the verses one by one - I started with Rev 20:1-7 and was so amazed to find first, "the light in that city is The LORD" in the O.T..
Reading the Old Testament cross-references, I couldn't help but see how the Jews would read these promises, from the time that they were first given them and was absolutely awed.

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is,
"Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD" -- [Deut 6:4]

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

The cross-reference to these - Isaiah 9:6

Glory to The Lord God of hosts!

Just Awed.

Who is The LORD in these verses?

Great topic JIG! This right here is the whole crux of the matter.

The LORD (all caps LORD is Jehovah) is the eternal Son of God in every verse posted.

Jesus (the eternal Son of God) is Jehovah!

In His full title the LORD Jesus Christ:

LORD represents the Eternal Son in the OT
Jesus represents the Eternal Son in His earthly ministry
Christ represents the Eternal Son after His ascension

OJ

Yes, LORD, "with all capitals" Strong's # H3068, - YHVH = HaShem to the Jews that won't pronounce His Name.

And Christians do believe that Elohim ['God' in the OT] is a plural masculine noun.

The Name "LORD God" is found *519 times in the KJV O.T..

Example = Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the *LORD God* made the earth and the heavens

The 'phrase' - "LORD thy God" is found 257 times in the KJV O.T.. ... Just a few here ...

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates

Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Exo 23:19 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God.

~

Deu 6:1,2 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: that thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

Deu 6:4,5 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: and thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

"The Absolute Co-Equality of The Three In ONE" ...

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Isa 45:5,6 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Translated from what Joe brought forth with the capitals - the Hebrew is saying in the O.T. - "LORD God" equals Jesus Elohim.

Not "Jesus Only" but "GOD Only".
Finding all the cross-references to Rev 19:12 is exciting as well. In fact, finding all the cross-references to the whole of the Revelation is Very exciting. Praise The LORD GOD of Glory!

The all caps in the KJV whether GOD or LORD are variations of Jehovah which is the personal name of God the Son.

The TSK is a great resource, coupled with the TTT below and a concordance are the only books required to study the Bible.

http://www.bible-topics.com/

Beginning study here

http://www.bible-topics.com/Christ-is-God.html

There is also a good KJV Bible available with words of the Son (LORD ) in red in the OT to match the words of the Son (Christ) in red in the NT. It really helps bring Christ alive in the OT and make the seamless transition between the OT and NT.

OJ

You know Joe, my husband majored in the languages, so I had every Lexicon and Concordance, etc at my disposal for 30 yrs and GOD has been so very gracious to me, that I could/can study for 16 hours a day and not get tired, By His Grace Alone - Glory to The Name Above All Names Only - and I 'thank you' for bringing up The Name in capitals!!!
Not too many Christians know that, and now whenever they read the O.T., they will see Him.
I am a Jewish Christian and GOD brought me to the State that I live in now to speak to the Jewish people here.
"New Yawk" :) is called 'little Israel' and it wasn't until I listened to Art enough times and tawked to enough of my neighbors before I realized why He brought me here - but before that point, I cried and cried to go back to 'the Bible belt'. Amazing Grace, Alone!
GOD Bless you too.

Hi Elizabeth. Of course I'm not offended by your post. I'm blessed to see it. I read and enjoy your posts as well. I've been following your thread on The Kingdom.

His Word is true! "Thou art the Christ, The Son of The Living GOD! Amen - Peter got it!
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Sis, Yes - it 'is' a joy to commune about The LORD!
You probably have heard of the hymns by Isaac Watts. He prayed to understand the Trinity - a very long prayer and that prayer was coming from his inner-most being. Knowing the hymns that he had written, my heart, soul and spirit went out to him as I read his prayer. All I could think was, "GOD is Amazing!" I'm sure Isaac Watts is at peace with what he Knows now :)
I felt the depths of his prayer some yrs back before I found his prayer and it started with me, as I said, with Rev 21:1-7. It was as if I couldn't get away from those verses and not because of my own curiosity. It was a time that seemed to "do it" for me, as best as I know how to say it.
The link that Joe left about His Deity is really good. Years back, just after the time that I went through those long hours of craving and searching with those verses, it seemed like the dam broke and the verses from the Old and New were coming from His Word like Living Waters - so Yes, I do know what you mean about not tiring when looking into and for HIM.
This week, the verses that kept coming to me were ... John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Those verses gave me strength and it fought off an attack that GOD allowed, by Him asking me "Will you go away?" and verse 68 came to mind and not of myself. Glory to GOD!

Sis, I know we're going to go through a lot, future tense - but I know if we keep seeking Him for Who He is - as in "Who is JESUS?" - that we'll definitely be given the strength to get through Anything - When our eyes are off of ourselves and back onto Him and Him alone - and I think you also know that as well. 1Chron 16:10 Glory ye in His Holy Name: let the heart of them Rejoice that seek the LORD.
GOD Bless you mightily, And thank you for your posts!

When looking at Torrey's Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge, which is a 'cross-referencing' aide in e-sword, we don't get the full impact that this is an actual book that he worked on for only GOD knows how long. The print in the book is so small, because he found cross-references for pretty much every verse in the Bible. Amazing!
Then he also did another book with the verses split under 'topics' and of course, that's far from all that this humble man did.
He loved and knew the Value of The Word and loved humans enough to spend countless hours dividing up the Word for others so that they could study. What a task. What a love.

The posts on this thread are not exhaustive. The cross-referencing of Rev 21:1-7 is not complete in the OP. But seeing "The LORD" saying the same things in the Old Testament that He also wrote through John is the marvel of it all. There's no way to get bored with the Bible. The cross-referencing goes on and on and on, besides any word studies within those verses.

I pray we see the Wealth that we have with our computers to do what Torrey and others had done but with pen and paper. We have it so easy now. I have the TSK in book form - but since getting a computer - I'm overwhelmed by the ease of doing a Bible Study compared to what men like Torrey went through or what the writers of The Bible went through with parchment and ink wells and quills to give us His Word.

The LORD 'is' The Word of GOD.

Continuing on and keeping in mind what Old Joe brought to the table - the truth that "LORD" [Yehovah] and "GOD" [Yehovih], when written in capitals is Who we know right now as "Jesus" - but we could also say that regardless of whether The Name of GOD is in capitals or not - The LORD our God is 'One' LORD - He is GOD, The First and The Last - The One True GOD and the less we divide Him in the verses shown in the OP, the better we'll grasp His Majesty.
As we glance through the O.T. - we'll begin to not only see where and how His Name was capitilized but how His Name is One with those that aren't capitalized. :) Praise GOD!

Continuing cross-referencing ...

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

---------

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Eze 37:27,28 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Amen, Miccah, I agree and desire to learn something New everyday - even through Eternity. Isn't it wonderful!
Glad that Joe posted Torrey's Topical Textbook. It's a great companion to his TSK. Taking the verses from the link that he posted on Christ's Deity and putting those verses into the TSK for even more cross-references - it's Endless - never ceases to Amaze me - as HE and His Word is Endless.

CHRIST IS ALL ~ J.C. Ryle

"Christ is all" (Col. 3:11).

The words of the text which heads this page are few, short and soon spoken; but they contain great things. Like those golden sayings, "To me to live is Christ," "I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me," they are singularly rich and suggestive (Phil. 1:21; Gal. 2:20).

These three words are the essence and substance of Christianity. If our hearts can really go along with them, it is well with our souls. If not, we may be sure we have yet much to learn.

Let me try to set before my readers in what sense Christ is all, and let me ask them, as they read, to Judge themselves honestly, that they may not make shipwreck in the judgment of the last day.

I purposely close this volume with a message on this remarkable text. Christ is the mainspring both of doctrinal and practical Christianity. A right knowledge of Christ is essential to a right knowledge of sanctification as well as justification. He that follows after holiness will make no progress unless he gives to Christ His rightful place. I began the volume with a plain statement about sin. Let me end it with an equally plain statement about Christ.

1. Christ is all in the counsels of God

a. There was a time when this earth had no being. Solid as the mountains look, boundless as the sea appears, high as the stars in heaven look, they once did not exist. And man, with all the high thoughts he now has of himself, was a creature unknown.

And where was Christ then?

Even then Christ was "with God" and "was God" and was "equal with God" (John 1:1; Phil. 2:6). Even then He was the beloved Son of the Father "You loved Me," He says, "before the foundation of the world." "I had glory with You before the world began." "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was" (John 17:5, 24; Prov. 8:23). Even then He was the Savior if "foreordained before the foundation of the world" (1 Pet. 1:20), and believers were "chosen in Him" (Eph. 1:4).

b. There came a time when this earth was created in its present order. Sun, moon and stars, sea, land and all their inhabitants were called into being, and made out of chaos and confusion. And, last of all, man was formed out of the dust of the ground.

And where was Christ then?

Hear what the Scripture says: "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3). "By Him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are in earth" (Col. 1:16). "And You, Lord, in the beginning have laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of Your hands" (Heb. 1:10). "When He prepared the heavens, I was there: when He set a compass upon the face of the depth: when He established the clouds above: when He strengthened the foundations of the deep: when He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the foundations of the earth then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him" (Prov. 8:27–30). Can we wonder that the Lord Jesus, in His preaching, should continually draw lessons from the book of nature? When He spoke of the sheep, the fish, the ravens, the corn, the lilies, the fig tree, the vine, He spoke of things which He Himself had made.

c. There came a day when sin entered the world. Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and fell. They lost that holy nature in which they were first formed. They forfeited the friendship and favor of God, and became guilty, corrupt, helpless, hopeless sinners. Sin came as a barrier between themselves and their holy Father in heaven. Had He dealt with them according to their deserts, there had been nothing before them but death, hell and everlasting ruin.

And where was Christ then?

In that very day He was revealed to our trembling parents as the only hope of salvation. The very day they fell, they were told that the seed of the woman should yet bruise the serpent’s head, that a Savior born of a woman should overcome the devil, and win for sinful man an entrance to eternal life (Gen. 3:15). Christ was held up as the true light of the world, in the very day of the Fall; and never has any name been made known from that day by which souls could be saved, excepting His By Him all saved souls have entered heaven, from Adam downwards; and without Him none have ever escaped hell.

d. There came a time when the world seemed sunk and buried in ignorance of God. After four thousand years the nations of the earth appeared to have clean forgotten the God that made them. Egyptian, Assyrian, Persian, Grecian and Roman empires had done nothing but spread superstition and idolatry. Poets, historians, philosophers had proved that, with all their intellectual powers, they had no right knowledge of God, and that man, left to himself, was utterly corrupt. "The world, by wisdom, knew not God" (1 Cor. 1:21). Excepting a few despised Jews in a corner of the earth, the whole world was dead in ignorance and sin.

And what did Christ do then?

He left the glory He had had from all eternity with the Father, and came down into the world to provide a salvation. He took our nature upon Him, and was born as a man. As a man He did the will of God perfectly, which we all had left undone; as a man He suffered on the cross the wrath of God which we ought to have suffered. He brought in everlasting righteousness for us. He redeemed us from the curse of a broken law. He opened a fountain for all sin and uncleanness. He died for our sins. He rose again for our justification. He ascended to God’s right hand, and there sat down, waiting until His enemies should be made His footstool. And there He sits now, offering salvation to all who will come to Him, interceding for all who believe in Him, and managing by God’s appointment all that concerns the salvation of souls.

e. There is a time coming when sin shall be cast out from this world. Wickedness shall not always flourish unpunished, Satan shall not always reign, creation shall not always groan, being burdened. There shall be a time of restitution of all things. There shall be a new heaven and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness, and the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea (Rom. 8:22; Acts 3:21; 2 Pet. 3:13; Isa. 11:9).

And where shall Christ be then? And what shall He do?

Christ Himself shall be King. He shall return to this earth, and make all things new. He shall come in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and the kingdoms of the world shall become His. The heathen shall be given to Him for His inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for His possession. To Him every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that He is Lord. His dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed (Matt. 24:30; Rev. 11:15; Ps. 2:8; Phil. 2:10, 11; Dan. 7:14).

f. There is a day coming when all men shall be judged. The sea shall give up the dead which are in it, and death and hell shall deliver up the dead which are in them. All that sleep in the grave shall awake and come forth, and all shall be judged according to their works (Rev. 20:13; Dan. 12:2).

And where will Christ be then?

Christ Himself will be the Judge. "The Father . . . has all judgment unto the Son." "When the Son of man shall come in His glory: then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory and before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats." "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad" (John 5:22; Matt. 25:31, 32; 2 Cor. 5:10).

Now if any reader of this message thinks little of Christ, let him know this day that he is very unlike God! You are of one mind, and God is of another. You are of one judgment, and God is of another. You think it enough to give Christ a little honor, a little reverence, a little respect. But in all the eternal counsels of God the Father, in creation, redemption, restitution and judgment—in all these, Christ is "all".

Surely we shall do well to consider these things. Surely it is not written in vain "He that honors not the Son honors not the Father which has sent Him" (John 5:23).

2. Christ is all in the Bible

In every part of both Testaments Christ is to be found—dimly and indistinctly at the beginning, more clearly and plainly in the middle, fully and completely at the end—but really and substantially everywhere.

Christ’s sacrifice and death for sinners, and Christ’s kingdom and future glory, are the light we must bring to bear on any book of Scripture we read. Christ’s cross and Christ’s crown are the clue we must hold fast, if we would find our way through Scripture difficulties. Christ is the only key that will unlock many of the dark places of the Word. Some people complain that they do not understand the Bible. And the reason is very simple. They do not use the key. To them the Bible is like the hieroglyphics in Egypt. It is a mystery, just because they do not know and employ the key.

a. It was Christ crucified who was set forth in every Old Testament sacrifice. Every animal slain and offered on an altar was a practical confession that a Savior was looked for who would die for sinners—a Savior who should take away man’s sin, by suffering, as his Substitute and Sin–bearer, in his stead (1 Peter 3:18). It is absurd to suppose that an unmeaning slaughter of innocent beasts, without a distinct object in view, could please the eternal God!

b. It was Christ to whom Abel looked when he offered a better sacrifice than Cain. Not only was the heart of Abel better than that of his brother, but he showed his knowledge of vicarious sacrifice and his faith in an atonement. He offered the firstlings of his flock, with the blood thereof, and in so doing declared his belief that without shedding of blood there is no remission (Heb. 11:4).

c. It was Christ of whom Enoch prophesied in the days of abounding wickedness before the flood "Behold," he said, "the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment upon all" (Jude 14, 15).

d. It was Christ to whom Abraham looked when he dwelt in tents in the land of promise. He believed that in his seed, in one born of his family, all the nations of the earth should be blessed. By faith he saw Christ’s day, and was glad (John 8:56).

e. It was Christ of whom Jacob spoke to his sons, as he lay dying. He marked out the tribe out of which He would be born, and foretold that "gathering together" unto Him which is yet to be accomplished. "The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come, and unto Him shall the gathering of the people be" (Gen. 49:10).

f. It was Christ who was the substance of the ceremonial law which God gave to Israel by the hand of Moses. The morning and evening sacrifice, the continual shedding of blood, the altar, the mercy–seat, the high priest, the passover, the day of atonement, the scapegoat—all these were so many pictures, types and emblems of Christ and His work. God had compassion upon the weakness of His people. He taught them Christ, line upon line, and, as we teach little children, by similitudes. It was in this sense especially that "the law was a schoolmaster to read" the Jews "unto Christ" (Gal. 3:24).

g. It was Christ to whom God directed the attention of Israel by all the daily miracles which were done before their eyes in the wilderness. The pillar of cloud and fire which guided them, the manna from heaven which every morning fed them, the water from the smitten rock which followed them—all and each were figures of Christ The bronze serpent, on that memorable occasion when the plague of fiery serpents was sent upon them, was an emblem of Christ (1 Cor. 10:4; John 3:14).

h. It was Christ of whom all the judges were types. Joshua and David and Gideon and Jephthah and Samson, and all the rest whom God raised up to deliver Israel from captivity—all were emblems of Christ. Weak and unstable and faulty as some of them were, they were set for examples of better things in the distant future. All were meant to remind the tribes of that far higher Deliverer who was yet to come.

i. It was Christ of whom David the king was a type. Anointed and chosen when few gave him honor, despised and rejected by Saul and all the tribes of Israel, persecuted and obliged to flee for his life, a man of sorrow all his life, and yet at length a conqueror—in all these things David represented Christ.

j. It was Christ of whom all the prophets from Isaiah to Malachi spoke. They saw through a glass darkly. They sometimes dwelt on His sufferings, and sometimes on His glory that should follow (1 Pet. 1:11). They did not always mark out for us the distinction between Christ’s first coming and Christ’s second coming. Like two candles in a straight line, one behind the other, they sometimes saw both the advents at the same time, and spoke of them in one breath. They were sometimes moved by the Holy Spirit to write of the times of Christ crucified, and sometimes of Christ’s kingdom in the latter days. But Jesus dying, or Jesus reigning, was the thought you will ever find uppermost in their minds.

k. It is Christ, I need hardly say, of whom the whole New Testament is full. The Gospels are Christ living, speaking and moving among men. The Acts are Christ preached, published and proclaimed. The Epistles are Christ written of, explained and exalted. But all through, from first to last, there is one name above every other, and that is the name of Christ.

I charge every reader of this message to ask himself frequently what the Bible is to him. Is it a Bible in which you have found nothing more than good moral precepts and sound advice? Or is it a Bible in which you have found Christ? Is it a Bible in which Christ is all? If not, I tell you plainly, you have hitherto used your Bible to very little purpose. You are like a man who studies the solar system, and leaves out in his studies the sun, which is the center of all. It is no wonder if you find your Bible a dull book!

Yes Elibeth, the LORD is the Eternal Son of God.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=16257

You might also see this thread.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42729&forum=36

OJ

Personally, I really liked that article by J.C. Ryle.

Well, I posted here and went over to read the News site and it just hit me what has happened on this thread. This thread, Elizabeth, is about the "Deity of Christ" and not about the 'when did He become The Son' issue.

Jesus 'is' GOD and that is what this thread is about. The suggestion for us to study and do cross-referencing ourselves is being lost by your misunderstanding of the topic of this thread and Joe's last post, bringing up a closed issue.

"The Father sent The Son" is something that I do indeed believe and there's an old thread here on SI from 2005 where I spent 10 pages talking to a "Jesus Only" guy that could not see the Triune Godhead so I posted every verse that mentions "Father" and "Son" on pg 5 of that thread - so now that this thread has been thrown off topic, I'll try to bring it back with another article by R.A. Torrey - one of my longtime favorite preacher-teachers.

Too long to post - "The Deity of Jesus Christ"

http://ratorrey.webs.com/The%20Deity%20of%20Jesus%20Christ.htm

One thing I do know, is that if we can't grasp what "absolute co-equality" means - then we don't know Who 'Jesus' is, but that doesn't mean that that person isn't saved.

If as John said in John 1:1, that Jesus is The Word of GOD, then do you see Jesus 'involved' in the Genesis account of the creation? And if so, in which of the verses in Gen 1 do you see Jesus and Who's Words are recorded in that Chpt?

GOD Bless you all today!

Last night, I remembered a time when reading Acts Chpt 7 and thinking to myself, "Oh, if only Stephen had stopped at vs 50, they wouldn't have killed him." - but then verses 55 and 56 straightened out my faulty thinking.
Praise GOD!

Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

From the book: THE VOICE OF GOD IN THE PRESENT HOUR - By R. A. Torrey [1917]

CHPT XVII - A CHRIST-LIKE MAN.

THERE is one man who is pictured to us in the Bible who appears to be more like Christ than any other man of whose life we have an account. That man is Stephen, the first deacon in the Christian church, and the first Christian martyr. There is no fairer life recorded in history than that of Stephen, excepting, of course, the life of Him of whom Stephen learned and after whom he patterned. The character of Stephen presents a rare combination of strength and beauty, robustness and grace. Stephen occupies small space in the Bible, two chapters, Acts 6 and 7, and two verses in other chapters, Acts 11:19 and 22:20, yet in this short space a remarkably complete analysis of his character and the outcome of it is given.

1. STEPHEN'S CHARACTER Let us look first at Stephen's character. One word occurs again and again in the description of Stephen. It is the world "full" He was a remarkably full man. 1. First of all he was "full of faith." The record reads, "They chose Stephen, a man full of faith" (Acts 6:5). Stephen had unbounded confidence in God and in His Word; he believed implicitly in the certainty of every statement in the Word of God regarding the past, and he believed implicitly in its promises regarding the future. He had no fear of consequences when God's Word, or God's Spirit bade him do anything, he simply did it and left the consequences with God. It was God's to promise and to command, it was his simply to believe and obey what God said, and leave the outcome with God. Even in that awful moment when he was surrounded by a howling mob with gnashing teeth, when the pitiless rocks were crushing his body and face and brain, he quietly looked up and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit," and then kneeling down uttered a mighty prayer for his enemies, and gently "fell asleep." Oh, that we had more men and women of Stephen's faith, men and women who believe all God says and do all He commands in His Word and leave the results entirely with Him; men and women who walk straight on with childlike, unwavering confidence in Him in the path He marks out. There was never a day when men and women of that sort were more needed than to-day. Our power and our accomplishment will be proportionate to our faith in God and in His Word. Faith is the outstretched hand that helps itself to all God's fullness. The Lord Jesus is ever saying, "According to your faith be it unto you" (Matt. 9:29), and of many of us it must be said that "Jesus could do no mighty work there because of their unbelief" (Mark 6:5; Matt. 13:58).

2. In the next place Stephen was "full of grace." This we find in verse 8, B. V. The Authorized Version reads that he was "full of faith and power," but the Kevised Version reads that he was "full of grace and power." It is true, as already seen, that he was full of faith, but he was full of something besides faith: "full of grace." His faith in God and His Word brought the grace of God into his heart and life. He not only had grace, he was full of it: "full of grace." He was completely emptied of self, of his own will, of his own plans, of his own goodness, of his own thoughts, of his own strength, and the grace of God had just come in and taken complete possession of his heart and affections and will and character and life. This was the reason why he was so much like Christ Himself, Christ was just living His own life over again in Stephen. As we look at Stephen with his face shining like an angel's (Acts 6 : 15), and listen to the words that fall from his lips, it seems as if Jesus Himself had come back to earth again, and so He had: He had come back into Stephen's heart and was manifesting Himself in Stephen's life. And in the same way Jesus Christ is ready to come back again in your life and mine if we are only willing to be emptied of the self-life and filled with grace. Then we can say with the Apostle Paul, "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me" (Gal. 2:20, B. V.). Ah! friends, most of us have some grace, but let us be full of grace, let us allow grace to fill every corner of our lives.

3. Stephen was also "full of power!" Grace and power are not one and the same thing, though all real power comes from grace, i.e., it is a gift of God's grace. However, the graces of the Spirit are different from the gifts of the Spirit. "Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and self-control" are the graces of the Spirit (Gal. 5: 22). The various gifts of power for service are the gifts of the Spirit. Many a man has the graces of the Spirit in rich measure who has not much of the power of the Spirit in his work. Others have very much of the power of the Spirit in some directions, but are greatly lacking in the graces of the Spirit, but Stephen was full of faith, grace, and power, and so ought we to be. The graces of the Spirit ought to be richly revealed in our lives; the power of the Spirit ought to be mightily manifested in our work. It is the privilege of every believer to be a man of power in service. Grace and power are both at our disposal, grace for living like Christ, power for working like Christ. (John 14: 12). The men and women needed to-day are the men and women who live graciously and work mightily.

4. Stephen was also full of the Word of God. There is but one sermon of Stephen's reported. You will find it in the seventh chapter of the Acts of the Apostles. But what a sermon that one sermon is. It is Bible from beginning to end. When Stephen opened his mouth to speak the Scripture just flowed forth. As it is "out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaketh" (Matt. 12: 34), it is evident that Stephen's heart was full of God's Word. He had pondered the Word of God deeply ; he had discovered the deeper meanings of its precepts, promises, history, and prophecies ; he had hidden the Word of God in his heart; he was full of the Word. This goes far toward explaining why he was also full of faith and grace and power. It is vain for one to pray to be full of faith if he neglects the Word of God, for faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Rom. 10:17). I remember a time when I longed for faith, and tried hard to get it, but I never succeeded until I began feeding upon the Word of God. It is vain to seek for grace in the life and neglect the Word of God, for the Bible is the Word of His grace, which is able to build you up" (Acts 20: 32). It is vain to pray for power and neglect the Word of God, for it is when "the Word of God abideth in you" that "ye are strong and overcome the wicked one" (1 John 2:14). Faith and grace and power all come from the Word of God, and in order to be full of them we must be full of it. How much we need to-day men and women like Stephen who are full of the Word of God, who have such a command of the Bible that none are "able to resist the wisdom by which" they speak, and men also who have the ord of God not only upon their lips, but in their hearts and lives. But we cannot be full of the Word of God if we do not study it, study it long and earnestly and prayfully, study it (really study it) every day of our lives.

5. But Stephen was full of something else yet, he was "full of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 6:5). Being full of the Word of God and being full of the Holy Ghost go hand in hand. In Eph. 5 : 18, 19, R. V., Paul says, "Be filled with the Spirit; speaking one to another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord." And in Col. 3:16 he says, "Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom ; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." By the comparison of these two passages we see that what in one place is attributed to being full of the Spirit, is in the other place attributed to being full of the Word of God. The two go naturally together, but they are often divorced. I know men who are full of the Word, i.e., they have a very large technical and formal knowledge of the Word, but who are not full of the Spirit. They are well instructed but they have no unction. They are dry as chips. Indeed, I have known men who were once full of the Spirit, but they have lost the manifestation of His presence and of His power. As far as the form of knowledge of the Word goes, they know as much as they ever did, but the power has gone out of their words. But Stephen was "full of the Spirit" of God as well as full of the Word of God. His enemies were not able to resist, not only "the wisdom/ but also "the Spirit by which he spake" (Acts 6: 10). Let us seek to be full of the Holy Ghost. Without this our lives will be graceless and our efforts will be powerless. The Holy Spirit's power was manifested in Stephen, as we have already seen, in a twofold way: in his life, and in his work.

6. Stephen was also full of love. In Acts 7:57-60 we see how absolutely his whole inner and outer life were under the control of love. In no other man, perhaps, except Christ, has love shone out as it did in Stephen. Look at Stephen as he falls beneath the stones hurled at him by his infuriated antagonists and assassins. He can no longer stand, and he sinks to his knees. His crushed forehead is throbbing with pain, his strength is fast waning, but he summons all his remaining strength and utters a loud cry. What is it? Is it, Lord curse these my murderers? No, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. " Here we see love for enemies triumphant even in death. There is perhaps no lesson of Stephen's life harder to learn than this, and yet there is no other lesson that we more need to learn than this, and there was never a time when we more needed to learn it than to-day, when we are face to face with a mighty foe who may do us or our loved ones awful harm. Let us never forget to be full of love. Love is the one Divine thing. "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal" (1 Cor. 13:1, R. V.). Ah ! it is easy to love the lovely, in fact it is not hard to have a certain sentimental love for the unlovely, provided they have never crossed our path in any way; but to love the one who lies about you, as these did about Stephen, to love the one who does you harm, seeking, it may be, your very life, as they did the life of Stephen, this is the hard thing, this is the supreme test of whether the Lord Jesus be indeed dwelling in us or not. There are many of us here to-day who have coveted earnestly that we might be full of faith and grace, and power, and the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit, but are you full of love? Do you really wish to be full of love? Remember in answering that question that while love is the divinest thing in the world, it is also the most costly.

7. Stephen was not only full of love, he was also full of courage. Many men seem to be forgiving simply because they have not sufficient energy of character to be vengeful, but Stephen's forgiveness was not of that kind. He was a man of almost matchless energy and fearless courage ; he knew the Jews, he knew what they had done to his Lord, and yet, knowing their history, he faces his angry antagonists and boldly says: "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost; as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One" (Acts 7:51, 52), and then when they gnashed upon him with their teeth, he beat no retreat; but looking up steadfastly into heaven, and seeing the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, he says", Behold, I see the heavens open, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Acts 7:56). Do we not sorely need courage like that to-day, courage to face the enemies of Christ, and give our uncompromising testimony for Him? How unlike this is to the timid, cringing, sentimentality and gush that passes for Christianity to-day. We need Stephens in business, we need Stephens in society, we need Stephens in public affairs, we need Stephens in the home and in the church. There was then this seven-fold fullness in Stephen: he was "full of faith," "full of grace," "full of power," full of the Word of God, "full of the Holy Ghost," full of love, full of courage.

8. There was one more thing about Stephen's character that needs to be noted, he was a man of prayer. Prayer was the spontaneous utterance of his heart in the hour of trouble. The last two utterances of his life were prayers (Acts 7:59, 60) just as were two of the last utterances of his Master, and Stephen's prayers were closely modelled after those of his Master. No man can be a man of power who is not a man of prayer. No man can be full of grace who is not a man of prayer. No man can be full of the Holy Ghost who is not a man of prayer. Of all the sad neglects in present day Christian living there is perhaps one so sad and fatal as the neglect of prayer. Why is there so much striving after holiness and so little obtaining of it? Neglect of prayer. Why is there so much machinery in the church and so little real work turned out? Neglect of prayer. Why is there so much preaching and so few conversions? Neglect of prayer. Why is there so much Christian enterprise and so little Christian progress? Neglect of prayer. What the church of Christ needs to-day above all else, as in the day of Jonathan Edwards, is a call to prayer. What the individual church and the individual Christian needs to-day is a call to prayer. Oh, that some mighty voice might be heard sounding from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and then around the world: LET US PRAY. Our nation to-day is at the greatest crisis in its history, and what our nation needs to day above all else is prayer, real prayer, prayer by multitudes of men and women who know how to pray. The great majority of our statesmen are right when they say that the great need of our day is preparedness, but the preparedness that we need is not the preparedness that is wrought out by Germanizing our land, building up a vast military system; it is the preparedness that is wrought out by prayer.

II. THE OUTCOME OF STEPHEN's CHARACTER There is little time left to dwell upon the outcome of Stephen's character and life.

1. His face shone like an angel's (Acts 6 : 15). The face of any man who is full of faith, and grace, and of the Spirit, and of the Word of God, and of power, and of love, will shine.

2. He preached with unanswerable wisdom and resistless power (Acts 6:10).

3. He "wrought great wonders and signs" (Acts 6:8).

4. "The Word of God increased, and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem exceedingly" (Acts 6:7). The Word of God is bound to increase, and the number of disciples is bound to multiply exceedingly when we have deacons and workers like Stephen.

5. Men were "cut to the heart" by his preaching (Acts 7 : 54) . The preaching of such a man, full of the Holy Ghost, is sure to bring deep conviction. Our Lord told His disciples that when the Holy Ghost was come He would "convict the world in respect of sin." There will be convicting power in the preaching and personal work of any man or woman who is full of the Holy Ghost.

6. But this conviction in Stephen's case did not result in conversion. As men could not gainsay the truth of what he said, they took to lying about the preacher (Acts 6 : 13) . But they did not stop at that, they gnashed upon him with their teeth (Acts 7 : 54), and they did not stop at that, they stoned and killed him (Acts 7 : 58-60). This is the sort of treatment that a man like Stephen may expect from a God-hating and Christ-hating, and truth-hating world. In all probability there will be conviction of sinners and conversion of sinners, but sooner or later there will be hatred and persecution and suffering, and it may be death.

7. But there was another outcome of Stephen's character, Stephen had his exceeding great reward, a reward that far more than compensated for the cruel treatment that he suffered. The heavens were opened and he saw Jesus and the glory of God (Acts 7: 55), then he gently fell asleep and departed to be with Christ, which was "very far better" (Acts 7: 59, 60; cf. Phil. 1 : 23), and out of that seemingly fruitless sermon and triumphant death there sprang the prince of Apostles, Paul. Paul and all his mighty ministry and all the results of that wonderful ministry were the outcome of what Stephen was.

Well, I posted here and went over to read the News site and it just hit me what has happened on this thread. This thread, Elizabeth, is about the "Deity of Christ" and not about the 'when did He become The Son' issue.

The question posed at the beginning of the thread was, "Who is the LORD?"

There is only one answer, it is the Son. The Son is the LORD, and the LORD is the Son. It can only be this way. There is no OT reference where when the term 'LORD' alone is used that it is not referring to the Son alone. When used alone it is not used for either the Spirit or the Father, but only the Son. So when the question is asked, "Who is the LORD?" the only answer possible is, "The Son!"

OJ

There is only one answer, it is the Son. The Son is the LORD, and the LORD is the Son. It can only be this way. There is no OT reference where when the term 'LORD' alone is used that it is not referring to the Son alone. When used alone it is not used for either the Spirit or the Father, but only the Son. So when the question is asked, "Who is the LORD?" the only answer possible is, "The Son!"

Hi Joe. Well, the Oneness doctrine folks would love your post. Although I agreed with you that LORD is Jesus, I could say that because Jesus is GOD - but The Name "LORD God" is found *519 times in the KJV O.T..

That means that YHVH is Elohim [plural masculine noun] = The Three in ONE.

1Ki 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

That thread link that I posted to the thread that you gave Elizabeth on this thread may be a good read for you.

GOD Bless!

Hi Joe. Well, the Oneness doctrine folks would love your post.

Not really because the personal name of the Son is Jehovah (LORD) whereas the Father most often is referred to as El (God), both co-existing co-eternally.

Although I agreed with you that LORD is Jesus, I could say that because Jesus is GOD - but The Name "LORD God" is found *519 times in the KJV O.T..

And that is the point of specifying LORD alone. The variations of LORD God, Lord GOD, and GOD have another purpose that cannot be addressed until who the LORD is, is solved.

Seeing you trying to talk about the Trinity is kind of like watching a blind man juggling paper. He doesn't know what he is doing or where he is reaching, but if he puts enough energy into it, hopefully the wind he makes will keep the paper in the air just long enough that everyone watching will think he has it under control.

OJ

I've mentioned in an earlier Thread here that two extremely crucial questions which must be answered by every Believer:
1. Who is God and what is He like?
2. Who is Jesus and what is His position in the eternal counsel of God?

Or better yet:

"What think ye of Christ? Whose son is he..."

The Pharisees answered the son of David professing only the natural generation from the lineage of man (IE incarnational sonship) whereas Christ quickly straightens them out with, "How then doth David in spirit call him Lord" pointing to His eternal Sonship.

Agreed though that most error begins at the person of Christ and just tumbles from there.

OJ

Hi Joe. As I tried to bring out on pg 1 - The Names are used by both the one you see as The Father and the one you see as The Son.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
[until vs 8 in this chpt, both The Ones we know as God the father and God the son are called "LORD" --- Also in Psalm 22.]

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and His redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

I've mentioned in an earlier Thread here that two extremely crucial questions which must be answered by every Believer:
1. Who is God and what is He like?
2. Who is Jesus and what is His position in the eternal counsel of God?

Amen, Blayne and Jesus - "GOD our Savior" answered that here -

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The FIRST of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord

GOD Bless.

I hardly think that it's all that much of a remarkable thing that Christians confess Jesus as the Son of God.

Yes, I agree it is a pretty basic confession, wouldn't you agree that someone who fails at that point would not be a Christian?

Many people will proclaim Christ to be anything but what He is, the Eternal Son of God, these are all essential attributes of Christ. It is at this very basic point that JIG is stuck.

OJ

I could be wrong, but I get the sense that Blayne is a bit more challenging than you're giving him credit for, Joe.

:)

[correction: 'challenging' was more of what I had in mind.]

JIG

Those be the Son.

Two questions:

Is Jesus Christ fully man in heaven?

Understanding the Jesus Christ came as God in human flesh, was/is His omnipresence limited to within His human body?

OJ

Joe, I will tolerate this one last post from you directed at me, but as you caused a ton of chaos on that Spurgeon thread with your "personal hatred", I will not be a party to you destroying any other threads.
This thread is about HIM and not another stalking thread.

Jesus in Heaven - According to The Word of GOD -

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

And as He Returns -

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And Him speaking from His Throne:

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things;

and I will be his God, and he shall be My son.

Got the picture? That's my answer.

Those be the Son?

Your grammar stumped me here. I just realized what you're saying.

I do believe you need to read these again. I'll put astericks plus, where it may help.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD [the Father], that **I will raise unto David a righteous Branch [Jesus]**, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

"The Psalm of the Cross", as called by Spurgeon or "The Messiah's Psalm" by others ...

Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? [sound familiar?]

Psa 22:8 He [Jesus] trusted on the LORD that he [The LORD God - The Father] would deliver him [Jesus]: let him [the LORD that He/Jesus "trusted on"] deliver him [Jesus], seeing he [Jesus] delighted in him [The LORD that He/Jesus "trusted on"].

Psa 22:19 But be not thou far from me [Jesus speaking], O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, **AND His redeemer** [Jesus] the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and **the LORD [the Father] hath laid on him [Jesus]** the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD [the Father] **to bruise him [Jesus]**; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

The Name "LORD" is given to both The Father and The Son, if you read the Word and cross-reference these above.

Let's look at an easy one.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and **the LORD [the Father] hath laid on him [Jesus]** the iniquity of us all.

This is an act of legal judgment however we know that the Father has entrusted ALL judgment to the Son, including substitutionary judgment as this is.

Read it again with New Testament terminology:

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and **the LORD [the Son of God] hath laid on him [the Son of Man]** the iniquity of us all.

Now please answer the two questions I asked earlier, they will help clear this up. If you need help, the answer to the first one is yes, which should clear up the answer to the second one.

FYI
http://carm.org/christianity/christian-doctrine/jehovah-jesus

OJ

Ummm, to tell you the truth, it gives me the shivers to think about having to decide who is or who isn't a Christian.

Come on now Blayne that is waffling, I am sure you would have no problem deciding that a Muslim or a Mormon or a JW are not Christians because of their false views of Christ, so why draw the line now?

One of the jobs of the Spirit of God is to testify to the believer of the person and work of Christ, as stated by Christ himself, "he shall testify of me". The Spirit does not testify of opposing natures of Christ to different believers, so in the nature of Christ as the Eternal Son of God, believers will be in agreement.

OJ

Joe wrote: "Let's look at an easy one.

...

Read it again with New Testament terminology:

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and **the LORD [the Son of God] hath laid on him [the Son of Man]** the iniquity of us all."

Isaiah 53:6 John Gill's Exposition of the Bible ... Excerpt ...

All we like sheep have gone astray ....
: and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all;

that is, God The FATHER [emphasis mine], against whom we have sinned, from whom we have turned, and whose justice must be satisfied; he has laid on Christ, his own Son, the sins of all his elect ones; which are as it were collected together, and made one bundle and burden of, and therefore expressed in the singular number, "iniquity", and laid on Christ, and were bore by him, even all the sins of all God's elect; a heavy burden this! which none but the mighty God could bear; this was typified by laying of hands, and laying of sins upon the sacrifice, and putting the iniquities of Israel upon the head of the scapegoat, by whom they were bore, and carried away. The words may be rendered, "he made to meet upon him the iniquity of us all" F18; the elect of God, as they live in every part of the world, their sins are represented as coming from all quarters, east, west, north, and south; and as meeting in Christ, as they did, when he suffered as their representative on the cross: or "he made to rush, or fall upon him the iniquity of us all" {s}; our sins, like a large and mighty army, beset him around, and fell upon him in a hostile manner, and were the cause of his death; by which means the law and justice of God had full satisfaction, and our recovery from ruin and destruction is procured, which otherwise must have been the consequence of turning to our own ways; so the ancient Jews understood this of the Messiah. R. Cahana F20 on these words, "binding his ass's colt to the choice vine", ( Genesis 49:11 ) says, ``as the ass bears burdens, and the garments of travellers, so the King Messiah will bear upon him the sins of the whole world; as it is said, "the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all",'' ( Isaiah 53:6 ) .

More Commentators - http://biblecommenter.com/isaiah/53-6.htm

Matthew Henry ...

He was appointed to do it, by the will of his FATHER; for the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. God chose him to be the Saviour of poor sinners and would have him to save them in this way, by bearing their sins and the punishment of them; not the idem-the same that we should have suffered, but the tantundem-that which was more than equivalent for the maintaining of the honour of the holiness and justice of God in the government of the world. Observe here, First, In what way we are saved from the ruin to which by sin we had become liable-by laying our sins on Christ, as the sins of the offerer were laid upon the sacrifice and those of all Israel upon the head of the scape-goat. Our sins were made to meet upon him (so the margin reads it); the sins of all that he was to save, from every place and every age, met upon him, and he was met with for them. They were made to fall upon him (so some read it) as those rushed upon him that came with swords and staves to take him. The laying of our sins upon Christ implies the taking of them off from us; we shall not fall under the curse of the law if we submit to the grace of the gospel. They were laid upon Christ when he was made sin (that is, a sin-offering) for us, and redeemed us from the curse of the law by being made a curse for us; thus he put himself into a capacity to make those easy that come to him heavily laden under the burden of sin. See Ps. 40:6-12. Secondly, By whom this was appointed. It was the Lord that laid our iniquities on Christ; he contrived this way of reconciliation and salvation, and he accepted of the vicarious satisfaction Christ was to make. Christ was delivered to death by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God. None but God had power to lay our sins upon Christ, both because the sin was committed against him and to him the satisfaction was to be made, and because Christ, on whom the iniquity was to be laid, was his own Son, the Son of his love, and his holy child Jesus, who himself knew no sin. Thirdly, For whom this atonement was to be made. It was the iniquity of us all that was laid on Christ; for in Christ there is a sufficiency of merit for the salvation of all, and a serious offer made of that salvation to all, which excludes none that do not exclude themselves. It intimates that this is the one only way of salvation. All that are justified are justified by having their sins laid on Jesus Christ, and, though they were ever so many, he is able to bear the weight of them all. [2.] He undertook to do it. God laid upon him our iniquity; but did he consent to it? Yes, he did; for some think that the true reading of the next words (v. 7) is, It was exacted, and he answered; divine justice demanded satisfaction for our sins, and he engaged to make the satisfaction. He became our surety, not as originally bound with us, but as bail to the action: "Upon me be the curse, my Father." And therefore, when he was seized, he stipulated with those into whose hands he surrendered himself that that should be his disciples' discharge: If you seek me, let these go their way, Jn. 18:8. By his own voluntary undertaking he made himself responsible for our debt, and it is well for us that he was responsible. Thus he restored that which he took not away.

http://biblebrowser.com/isaiah/53-6.htm

Your confusion over the Name "LORD/YHVH" is your misunderstanding of the Absolute Co-Equality of The Three in ONE.
Yes, Jesus is ALSO referred to as YHVH because of the fact that He Equally is GOD and also He called - "I AM" - "The First and The Last" and most every other Name of GOD that we find in the Old Testament.

I wouldn't have bothered with this but Isaiah 53 is a key to the witness of Messiah to the/His lost sheep of Israel!

All Questions of Who I believe "Jesus Is" can be found on this thread from 2005 under my other 'Nick', [as Blayne would call these identifiers], "Anonymous" - except for those other posts by "Anonymous" that are 'signed by Jeannette' who was Not banned, towards the end of this 16 pg thread -- and on the last page, just one other "Anonymous" is by a Brother that I address as "Compliments".

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=7346&forum=36&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

I add this other thread to this one, because the members who posted to that thread UNDERSTOOD the purpose for that thread - as was this one - was to Lift Up Jesus and to see Him as the same GOD of the Old Testament - which He is.

The name LORD does not need to exclude the Father, but as the personal name of  God the intention  of using it is to place emphasis on the Son. 

If you like John Gill, here he is telling you about eternal Sonship, but he and MH are both from the "dreaded cal..." persuasion of which you have recently stated your rejection of all tenets of their other beliefs. 

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=25144

And a few more....

Samuel Waldron 
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3128

W.E. Best
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3130

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=14175

OJ

Your beliefs page tell us what "other" people believe, but in the thousand lines posted, maybe only 10 are what you believe and in even in that your paper juggling act is evident.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One God, in three Equal Persons, yet manifesting as One God in the Beginning and again at the End, but three, somewheres inbetween.

This is your depth of presentation of your beliefs?

That our Creator God would die for us. One God called 'ĕlôhîym.[/b]

Elohim includes Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Only the Son died.

What you have quoted above could be Modalism, patripassionism, or almost any other heresy.

Now please answer the two questions I asked.

OJ

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.

Jesus is called "Elohim" in the Old Testament as well.

You are twisting my words, again.

You have again destroyed another thread with your personal hatred.

It is you that wrote, "there is not a man here that I consider a Brother" and it was by your own words, that you condemned us as unsaved that were posting about "obedience because we Love Him." You said I and they were not saved 'because' we preached making Jesus "LORD" over our lives and not just 'call' Him LORD, as you are.

I've been rebuked by Moderators for much less than what you have done since you've been here. You went after Oracio and that bothered me very-very much and that is when I got on that thread and the other thread about 'obedience' and your saying that none of the Brothers here were considered "Brothers" by you.

Now that everyone knows what we Both believe - I am done with posting to your judgemental posts to 99.9% of the Brethren here - though I know from past experience, that you will continue to stalk me, thread to thread, and not be rebuked nor banned for less than what I was - Unless you do the same to some other person here, other than me - but I thank those Brothers that spoke to you about your stalking me on that Spurgeon thread. They have been the rare and Brotherly few here.

This thread has been destroyed by hatred.

1Jn 4:8

You say you don 't like digging up bones, but when you get close to being cornered you always begin digging up bones.

Stick to the topic.

Please answer the two questions asked.

OJ

In Gen 17:1 along with multitudes of other verses in the OT, the LORD can ONLY be the Son. There are other verses where it may not be as clear, but the rule is, "When in doubt, look for the Son!" As approached in this manner the OT scriptures really come alive!

OJ

Yes, I did just go off-site to pray whether I should reply to you.

This is another lie:

You say you don 't like digging up bones, but when you get close to being cornered you always begin digging up bones.

You seemed to have forgotten [intentionally] the thread where I posted that "on every page you post on - I will bring up what you've said about you judging all men here as not being Brothers, in your eyes."

And the fact that you First called me unsaved over the "obedience" issue that I agreed with them on and Not the "Incarnational Sonship" issue.

FYI - Isaac Watts, Walter Martin, Adam Clarke, martyred Ignatius (35-107 AD), and many others are in Heaven. Sorry to disappoint you.

I did answer your questions and you are not correct on how many times YHVH also refers to The Father, as I plainly posted on the previous page, where you were wrong about Isaiah 53.

You need this sermon below, desperately. My Pastor didn't 'need' it.

http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/000496.html

You'll remain in our prayers.

You have not answered yet.

Is Jesus Christ fully man in heaven?

Understanding that Jesus Christ came as God in human flesh, was/is His omnipresence limited to within His human body?

OJ

I did answer your questions....

You need this sermon below, desperately. My Pastor didn't 'need' it.

http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/000496.html

This is a good quote out of the sermon.

"He is going to break us down until we see ourselves stark, as an unclean thing, with all our righteousnesses as filthy rags. So He will break us down, and He does."

Indeed he does, which is the point of declaring all of my and your righteousnesses as filthy rags. This you balked at, you refuse to see yourself as that which a broken and humble person sees themself as.

Since you seem to be placing such high value on truth, I look forward to your reforming to the truth in actually answering the two questions asked. Do not say that you have done something when you have not.

OJ

I did answer your questions....

You need this sermon below, desperately. My Pastor didn't 'need' it.

http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/000496.html

This is a good quote out of the sermon.

"He is going to break us down until we see ourselves stark, as an unclean thing, with all our righteousnesses as filthy rags. So He will break us down, and He does."

Indeed he does, which is the point of declaring all of my and your righteousnesses as filthy rags. This you balked at, you refuse to see yourself as that which a broken and humbled person sees themself as.

Since you seem to be placing such high value on truth, I look forward to your reforming to the truth in actually answering the two questions asked. Do not say that you have done something when you have not.

OJ

Don't know why you can't see that I answered your question with the quotes from Revelation 1, 19 & 21 when you asked. I see the answers to both questions in those descriptions.

What do you believe the New Jerusalem is? Just curious.

You're gonna love this and who said it ...

Quote:

"Replying to the objection that this teaching produced self-righteousness in its professors, Clarke testified: "No person that acts so has ever received this grace. He is either a hypocrite or a self-deceiver. Those who have received it . . . love God with all their heart, they love even their enemies.... In the splendor of God's holiness they feel themselves absorbed.... It has been no small mercy to me that in the course of my religious life, I have met with many persons who professed that the blood of Christ had saved them from all sin, and whose profession was maintained by an immaculate life; but I never knew one of them that was not of the spirit above described. They were men of the strongest faith, the purest love, the holiest affections, the most obedient lives and the most useful in society."

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=4229

Love your enemies.

Those verses are not an answer to the questions ma'am, it is just more evading on your part.

Is Jesus Christ fully man in heaven?

Understanding that Jesus Christ came as God in human flesh, was/is His omnipresence limited to within His human body?

OJ