Is the Roman Catholic Church really rooted in EVIL?

BE VERY HAPPY YOU WERE NOT BORN BACK IN 1232 A.D.

As on this very date back in 1232, Gregory IX issues the Bull Declinante jam mundi, bringing the papal inquisition to any that will not kiss the ring, in which the sole purpose was to root out and punish with torture any heretics in their dioceses and like cancer it spread fast and hard, with the end death.
We point fingers at the Muslims and the bloody history from that religion but non is liken to the Roman Church which killed oceans of humans in this 350 year period and would have had their way with many of us on facebook for our stance or even just reading the Bible.

I have read hundreds of emails, blogs, websites and posts where believers would say how they see persecution coming and they are ready, frankly I do think they would be persecuted much as most of what they say is done via a keyboard and these believers that type hard words with their computer would not have the boldness to do so publicly.
You want persecution, Jesus made that very clear as per John 7:7 and we don’t mind going to heaven, we just don’t want to die to get there.

Here are a couple of links where you could see the torture instruments used during the inquisition, just be advised these death tools can be shocking to the average American who does not even want to speak against the sin of abortion or sodomy and these Catholics make the Nazi’s look like girl scouts selling cooking at your front door.
Rueben Israel..[ facebook ]

Edit note: I deleted two sites that showed the torture devises used against the "heretics" during the long Catholic inquisition [ 350 years]. After viewing them myself, they were so devious and inhumanly sadistic that I started to get nauseous; only demons could have invented them.

If you are interested, you may google them. The point I am making is that this organization surely took up the Devil's crown to attack the true body of Christ. Wow!....and another wave like this is on the way; Muslim I believe.

It is possible that the Roman Catholic Church in it's infancy was no doubt primitive and may have started off well. Like most of Christianities denominations they all started off in a good way but look at them today they are divided, their doctrines isms have all changed to suit the times. It's hard to believe that even in our own Pentecostal/Baptist varieties there is persecution. Could this be what the RCC was in the beginning? Is it possible in it's starting points there was repentance, revival came and over a period of time pride set in men who knew not God anymore began appointing instead of God anointing. This is what we have in our Protestant Churches today. At one time these denominations believed that God ordained men, if we were to live long enough we could see the Pentecostal Assemblies become like the RCC persecuting and killing those who oppose her, (if we could live that long to see it).

As for the devices used to torture, I cannot bear the thought of it. I gave myself to seeing these things a few years back, I was so engrossed in them that I fell into a depression believing that one day I would stand on the precipice of some meat grinder and being told to deny Christ or live, the thought overwhelmed my spirit that I couldn't say yes or no. I was delirious, God had to intervene or through my own strength I would have denied the Lord that saved me. It was a fearful time, I lived in fear believing that this was my lot in life, the purpose as to why I was saved was to be killed in this manner. I do not want to go back to that again.

Saints you are looking at one part of history where believers were tortured by the RCC. Yes it was evil and cruel. But how was it any different from the protestant reformers who burned ababaptist brothers at the stake. Or drowned anabaptist sisters who were tied together and were drowned because of their bievers in believers baptism. Is this any less cruel than what the RCC did.

In Eritrea believers are cramed by the hundreds into shipping containers in some of the most inhumane conditions. In N. Korea believers are sent to death camps where they are worked to death on meager rations. They pick through rat droppings to find kernals of corn to eat. Those in hiding eat grass and tree bark. Christians that are captured and shot are the blessed ones. Those tortured could be tied up and laid and rolled over by a steam roller. Three generations of a believers family could be executed this way.

Mukem extremist will beheaded believers and show it on the internet. Others are tortured by drugs and beatings. A bullet would be merciful.

The cruelty of torture comes from hearts that are given to Satan. It is not just the RCC. But any institution that us controlled by the evil one and despises Christ. Be they governments or religious entities their hearts will always devise insideous ways to harm the people if Christ.

Bearmaster.

"But how was it any different from the Protestant reformers who burned Anabaptist brothers at the stake. Or drowned Anabaptist sisters who were tied together and were drowned because of their believers in believers baptism. Is this any less cruel than what the RCC did.".....bearmaster.

Murders were different in the sense of Volume, not specifically. We are talking about possibly MILLIONS of saints murdered and terrorized in this period of the Catholic Inquisition; which was actually a power grab for the Entire Earth. They failed, because God was not Yet Ready for the great trial. One day, He will allow it, for His glory no less.

Thank you for your insightful question....Tom

Amen Jimp; There was a Revival that swept the World in the late 60s and early seventies. It is difficult to me to ascertain the exact beginning or the end of it, but my guess is 1967-1977; again, I am guessing. I was saved and baptized in the Spirit in this Revival, along with millions. I was born again on a street corner in Boulder Colorado in 1972.

Young Hippie like people who were glowing approached me, and began to preach to me, following the Baptist method of the four spiritual laws; "Roman's Road". I believed a little; my faith was as thin as a hair, but I said; "Lord Jesus, come into my heart a sinner!", as I kneeled.

They then laid hands on me, and a Spirit entered me, and as "it" flooded my inward being with molten love, I felt every sin I ever did wash away. I felt as if a cloud of love surrounded me, so strong that I could not walk strait; I staggered as a drunken man, and I loved everyone. I wanted everyone to get what I did; JESUS.

That was about the depth of my theology. That day, I began to tell everyone I met about Him, and led many to Christ. The Bible came alive to me, and I devoured it. I went to sleep in the glow, and awoke in the glow. I remember looking in the mirror a few weeks later..[ I had a full beard, and did not need to shave daily]..and I literally did not recognize myself. I was clean, and filled with joy. "Who is that?" I was shocked.

These are the affects of true Revival. It is counted in souls redeemed, and obvious in the change displayed in them. I carried the sins of murder, gross immorality, theft and filthy hate, and so on, without end. I rose from my kneeling that day free, and holy. I then began my walk. I was revived to God; Re-alived if you will.

Revival, however, is like a seed. The sower, God Almighty, walked my way, and cast Himself into me. After that, I went my way, to allow, or not to allow that holy seed to root, and bare fruit, to be conformed or not to that Jesus, whose spirit entered me. This phenomena happened to millions in America, including masses of Catholics.

Catholic people are no different than any other dead religion as EverestoSama pointed out on another thread about Charismatics.

Consider these:"

A Christian, Spirit filled Buddhist.
A Christian, Spirit filled Muslim.
A Christian, Spirit filled Hindu.
A Christian, Spirit filled Satanist.
A Christian, Spirit filled Voodoo practitioner.
A Christian, Spirit filled Mormon.
A Christian, Spirit filled Catholic.

"We wouldn't buy the validity of the first five (and hopefully not the sixth, though times are changing), but the seventh we feel a little more comfortable with, even though their religious establishment is just as lost and deceived as any one of the prior six?"..Everestosama

His point is that if one is truly born again, he would no longer be involved in Pagan practice and worship. The Roman Catholic religion does so. The Pope is not the one and only Vicar, Ambassador of Christ on the Earth, and is not infallible. This idea is no less than Satanic.

Mother Mary is not the mediator between God and mankind, and does not live forever to make intercession for them, as she cannot receive continual prayer forever from the billions. The Catholic Mary is a demon; Astarte, who was assigned the title Queen of Heaven by Satan himself millenia before Peter and Paul and the holy church.

The Priesthood of this power does not have the magic power to turn wine into blood, nor bread into holy flesh to serve mankind with mercy. They too, are servants of their master, the Prince of Darkness. They are,as the synagogue of Satan, not a church at all, as they twist the image and doctrine of the true church into the devils will.

Into this God reached down and SAVED!..Praise Him!..as he did me, and I am so grateful. I know several FORMER Catholics who came out of her Redeemed.

The Charismatic movement was intertwined within this Revival, along with many false conversions and lying spirits that embedded themselves there. God is sorting them out, yet, and this will continue until He returns.

" Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."....Jesus

And so it is with Revival; Catholics and filthy hippie ex-Marine scum like me.

His point is that if one is truly born again, he would no longer be involved in Pagan practice and worship.

The Charismatics that I know don't worship Mary or the Saints, they worship Christ. Yes they stay in the Catholic Church because their worship services are in the basement of the Church. Yes, they attend mass but they know the truth and they feel compelled or my be even obligated to stay right where their at. They are enemies to the RCC because they have a voice and only eternity will tell us what impact they have had on others who were bound within it's walls and now see the light because of their word that was fitly spoken. What is this need to come out all the time? If we have the truth, why not stay as a light?

If we are altogether in one place as believers our light is pretty dim mixed with everyone else's, but take that same individual light into a dark place and shine there, your going to have a different response. Your going to see things flee and your also going to see things come closer. It was said of D.L.Moody being in a train station people started dropping to their knees saying "you have convinced me of sin", and the preacher hadn't said anything.

When I read about the verse in the book of revelation, about "come out from among her and be ye separate", I see that as anything that takes the place of grace. Become unattached from it's religious ideas of how to come to God, get away from the flesh that is trying to please God and awake in the Spirit which is the only way to come to God. Your testimony of salvation on the street corner proves this very thing. You've come out of your way and just embraced by faith His way. In doing that, the plague has staid, death no longer has dominion over you.

Yes, they attend mass but they know the truth and they feel compelled or my be even obligated to stay right where their at.

I find it odd that I have never heard anyone ever say that concerning those who were Mormons or JW's... yet I hear it all the time concerning the RCC. Can you even imagine the outcry of a response someone would get if they suggested that new believers stay in the Mormon or JW church so they can "be an influence"? No one would ever make such a suggestion.

I consider the RCC to be way more dangerous to the Christian than the other two because on the surface the RCC seems to be close to the truth... until you start to really look at what it teaches and why it teaches it. Then you realize just how far from the truth the RCC really is.

The RCC is not apostate, which is what people imply when they speak of Christians who dont leave it so they can "make a difference". The RCC is not going to suddenly come around to the truth. In fact in the last 40 years or so since Vatican II the RCC has done nothing but strongly reinforce it's doctrines of demons.

The RCC is not apostate... The RCC is anti-Christ! The child of God is to not partake of it. Thats a Biblical command.
Krispy

I find it odd that I have never heard anyone ever say that concerning those who were Mormons or JW's... yet I hear it all the time concerning the RCC.

It would be difficult to imagine a Jehovah's Witness getting saved for real and then being able to stay in the Kingdom Hall. Simply because JW teaching is a claim that Christ was Michael the Archangel becoming a man. Doing the work of God and thereby becoming Christ. Just an office not the Word made flesh. This is so blasphemous that it cannot be sat down with in any way. The christ of JW's is a claim that Christ was an angel made man; that he was spiritually raised from the dead and returned to heaven to once again become Michael, an arch angel.

The Mormon heresy is that Jesus is the brother of Satan. Enough said.

It would be impossible to live with such a blasphemy having come to a knowledge of the Truth concerning The Lord Jesus.

In Rome however, the centrality of Who Christ Was and Is, has been preserved in every detail. What makes it possible for RC brethren; the "my people" of "come out of her my people" in Revelations, to remain in Rome having come to a "living" understanding of the greater substance of salvation, is the centrality of your puzzlement.

What makes for a difficult understanding, is why these brethren don't see the blasphemous titles and idolatry which Rome practices as well as the blasphemy of the Mass. Then when you read Revelations and "Mystery Babylon" the Apostle John "wondered with a great wonder". You may see that perhaps this is because he could not actually fully comprehend what he was seeing in the vision. Which is to say, perhaps it seemed impossible to believe that a Church bearing the attributes of Christ could have come to such a place.

I know that this a view of some people who have given this a great deal of thought. What I personally find even more disturbing than the thought of Masses and blasphemous names, such as "Mary Mother of God" or idolatry and praying for the dead, is what all this means for the end of this age. Rome as a religious system is determined to maintain its position as the Mother of the True Faith, and does indeed believe that she will not become a widow.

As Tom shared in another post, Rome was present in the move of God in the 60's and 70's in the USA in which many people got soundly saved. They were the ones who came out of Rome. Yet many others stayed in Rome and their influence of charismatic thinking and effects has been real and well documented. The links are real. I guess this is a claim that Rome is manipulating even the little flocks with a mixture of truth and deception leading to an end time reality.

Andrew

Edited for spelling and grammar.

"Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men."

"For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Therefore watch!
and remember!

..that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears!"...

...Three years day and night eh? He needed to quit criticizing and be positive, I suppose.

Some things need to be shouted from our roof-tops, because they consume men.

I find it odd that I have never heard anyone ever say that concerning those who were Mormons or JW's..

Now my brother Krisp, I completely understand your words and your take on this and I believe what you are saying is right. But there is a component that enters the equation that will rightly divide between us and them, that being persecution. A voice in the JW's will not be tolerated too much longer until they thrust you out for evil. I have been literally thrown out of a catholic church by a mad man who seemed to me to be mad with religion and I was just a visitor visiting the cathedrals in Montreal enjoying the interior of the building. Sitting there in the pew this man comes over to me uttering something in french telling me to get out and finally I had to make my way to the door and then he just pushed me out. I had no idea what happened. The only thing I could think of was that the level of demonic activity was higher here than it was in my small town.

Now that was just being in the building saying nothing, how much more if a man or woman opens their mouth and speak truth, perhaps they would get a slap across the face and thrown out and beaten.

AmrKelly wrote:

It would be impossible to live with such a blasphemy [Mormonism] having come to a knowledge of the Truth concerning The Lord Jesus.

In Rome however, the centrality of Who Christ Was and Is, has been preserved in every detail. What makes it possible for RC brethren; the "my people" of "come out of her my people" in Revelations, to remain in Rome having come to a "living" understanding of the greater substance of salvation, is the centrality of your puzzlement.

What makes for a difficult understanding, is why these brethren don't see the blasphemous titles and idolatry which Rome practices as well as the blasphemy of the Mass. Then when you read Revelations and "Mystery Babylon" the Apostle John "wondered with a great wonder". You may see that perhaps this is because he could not actually fully comprehend what he was seeing in the vision. Which is to say, perhaps it seemed impossible to believe that a Church bearing the attributes of Christ could have come to such a place.

I know that this a view of some people who have given this a great deal of thought. What I personally find even more disturbing than the thought of Masses and blasphemous names, such as "Mary Mother of God" or idolatry and praying for the dead, is what all this means for the end of this age. Rome as a religious system is determined to maintain its position as the Mother of the True Faith, and does indeed believe that she will not become a widow.....ArmKelly

Brilliant ArmKelly: I hadn't considered John the Revelator "wondering in great awe!" as he beheld the spiritual reality of the Roman apparition as the wicked claptrap she is, and at the same time considering her naming herself as the One and holy church of the Lamb. Thank-you for that; it solidifies my convictions.

In his position, I would wonder in great amazement too. In John's time, there were 1300 Satanic, demon worshiping temples in Rome, practicing the ancient mass, and praying to the Queen of Heaven, by name; Astarte. [ Easter ].

Several hundred of the ranking demon-gods were given specific days and feasts to be honored. Is it a coincidence that those exact days and feast days were transcribed to the Roman church, and celebrated today as "Saints days"? It makes you wonder.....

How could a holy brother or sister endure such mixture in their worship?; Half Satan, half God; But, some do.

Holy acting while murdering the the true. This is the RCC.

"Yes, they attend mass but they know the truth and they feel compelled or my be even obligated to stay right where their at."

Krispy responds.
I find it odd that I have never heard anyone ever say that concerning those who were Mormons or JW's... yet I hear it all the time concerning the RCC. Can you even imagine the outcry of a response someone would get if they suggested that new believers stay in the Mormon or JW church so they can "be an influence"? No one would ever make such a suggestion.

I consider the RCC to be way more dangerous to the Christian than the other two because on the surface the RCC seems to be close to the truth... until you start to really look at what it teaches and why it teaches it. Then you realize just how far from the truth the RCC really is.

The RCC is not apostate, which is what people imply when they speak of Christians who dont leave it so they can "make a difference". The RCC is not going to suddenly come around to the truth. In fact in the last 40 years or so since Vatican II the RCC has done nothing but strongly reinforce it's doctrines of demons.

The RCC is not apostate... The RCC is anti-Christ! The child of God is to not partake of it. Thats a Biblical command."....KrispyKritter.

Excellent point Krisp, and one that needed to be said. The RCC is a satanic cult, with no other ideology rooted below than to utterly resist and devour the truth of Jesus, His doctrines, and His holy seed; the true Church. If she repented to her first love, she would rest in the heart of Lucifer as he shook his fist at the Lord attempting to murder him, the moment he was given his second name; Satan.

Not a good thing to repent to, eh?

"I have heard the RCC called Babylon,The Harlot,the anti-Christ and I am not so sure that I would argue, even though I do not think from my observations that I would limit those statements to just the RCC.

"At what point in history did this become?
Was the RCC once good but now fallen or was it bad from its beginnings??"...proudpapa

In Rome, at the time of the apostles, there were 1300 or so satanic temples, each of witch offered direct engagement with a demon, demoness, or a group or council of devils.

The author of "Two Babylons", Alexander Hislop, "demonstrates that almost all of the practices of the Roman Cult have been brought over from Paganism.when we come to see that the worship of the virgin Mary is really the worship of Venus, [ Astarte; Easter ]and that it comes from Babylon, the center of the system is revealed to be satanic."

"The Jesuits, the warring arm of the RCC, also push for the error that there is one mediator between God and Man, and that is the mediatrix, Mary."

Hislop writes and proves; "That Rome is in very deed the Babylon of the Apocalypse, and the essential character of her system, he grand objects of her worship, her festivals , her doctrine, her discipline, her rites and ceremonies, her priesthood, her orders, have ALL been derived from ancient Babylon, and finally that the Pope himself is truly and properly the lineal representation of Belshazzar."

All of these 1300 temples mentioned above, shortly after the death of the apostles, were then merged into the rites , structure, mass and ceremonies of the Roman Cult, which is erroneously called a church. It has nothing to do with God, and everything to do with the destruction of God's work on Earth.

It is estimated that over one billion people today worship at the feet of this prostitute Venus, all in the symbolic nature of an omnipotent goddess they call the mother of God, while honoring the vicar [ vicarious king] of the Lord] of Christ as head.[ Pope ].

It seems that throughout modern history, from the year of our Lord, the RCC has been evolving in and out, twisting to gain more power. She may have peaked near the end of her last great inquisition, which ended about 1600.

"If The Catholic Church is the Mother of Harlots whom is her offspring??" Proudpapa

Her cup is a cup of MIXTURE! Her offspring are of those who partake of the same drink.

"For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them."..Psalm 75

" So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth."..Revelation 17

The RCC has her roots in pure Satanism, and the worship of "THE HOST OF HEAVEN." This Host are the fallen angels; that became known as demons and devils. Before she settled in Archetype of the Roman, more symbolic order, she existed in more direct communion with Devils.

There were 1300 temples worshipping these wicked personalities in Rome alone, at the time of Paul the Apostle. There have always been Priests of Baal, and "Nuns" of different wicked order throughout time that tend to the order, and maintain and spread this worship unto mankind.

The clandestine brilliance of HOW the RCC pulled this off, is stunning; A direct Symbol of Worshipping God, and His Christ, while actually offering worship to the Devil and his brethren.

One infiltration would be the acceptance of Transcendental Meditation; CONTEMPLATIVE/MEDITATIVE inward gaze, as a true form of communion with God. It is not; it is satanic in nature, and of the church of the darkness; always has been.

It does however, lead you into awareness and "enlightened experience", as a counterfeit to authentic Holy Spirit manifestation, as the Catholic Mystics write about, and espouse. These are but carriers of that ancient satanic cult, established way back at Babel; and ensuing Babylon.

I would say that ALL of those in Christendom who teach these doctrines of prayer as holy, and the monastic "sacrificial" life that must accompany them as a deeper and more valued life, are of the Whore: Her children.

Does it mean that these movements and people involved are LOST? Not necessarily, but if followed continually, without repentance, probably. Why? Worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth is a requirement to Know Him and He rejects those who do not.

[ One idea of "WHO ARE THE OFFSPRING?"....More to follow....Great Question...."Any More ideas out there?"]

Does it mean that these movements and people involved are LOST? Not necessarily, but if followed continually, without repentance, probably. Why? Worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth is a requirement to Know Him and He rejects those who do not.

Exactly.

Can you be a Christian and a Catholic?

Yes.

Can you be a Christian and REMAIN a Catholic?

Not on your life.

"Come out of her My people." (Rev 18:4)

He confirms that they're His people, but He commands that they must come out. No two ways about it.

Disclaimer: Sorry but this is gonna be a long one.

This is unsubstantiated on two counts: First of all, it is based on what has been read INTO the biblical text. And second, it cannot be validated as true.

This is not the case. The whore of Babylon and her cup are well pictured the way Brothertom shared in one of his previous posts. Babylon is pictured as an image of spiritual adultery, and that is what her cup of mixture is. The Catholic church itself doesn't get the full rights to this title though. This whore's (in Greek the word used for harlot is the same when used for spiritual adulteries) umbrella is large enough to cover all of the worlds false and mixed religions, including many of today's apostate protestant ones. Even the title written on her head "Mystery" is a reference to the mystery religions of Babylon (as the Greek shows as well), and in Greek many of the titles given to her in Revelation 17 are direct references to idolatry.

If we have never met one Catholic who knows the Lord Jesus and has put their trust in God, the real issue is more likely the limitations of our experience, our knowledge of church history, and our expectations of what God is doing and can do in the world - yes even today, as in the evangelical movement in some Catholic congregations. It is counterproductive to isolate out the Catholic Church, call them Babylon, while disregarding the fluidity between these two "sides" – including the hostilities of the past.

That sounds really nice and all, but it's a straw man argument. We do not base any truth upon subjective experience, church history, our expectations etc. etc. Our truth is defined quite simply on what the Word says about it. Not even how people receive or respond to the truth, but simply what the truth is. The Word condemns the practices of the Roman Catholic church as false and idolatrous. I'm not one to argue with it, as I didn't write it.

The Lord detests a mixture in worship of Him. This is quite clearly pictured when He was giving the law from Sinai. He was also very specific on HOW He was to be worshiped. Read through Deuteronomy 12 and you'll see how He explicitly forbids the Hebrews to worship in the way that the pagan countries around Him worship Him. He demands to be worshiped by the standard that He sets: The Truth.

Let's take a look at some Roman Catholic "truths";

Mary, Mother of God (a phrase not even found in the Bible) also born without sin (even though in Luke's Gospel she says that she needs a savior), perpetually a virgin (even though Jesus had siblings) equal with Jesus, co-Redemptrix, and Mediatrix.

Lie.

In communion the bread becomes (by faith now, though before they believed it was literal until science debunked it) the LITERAL body of Christ and the wine becomes His LITERAL blood, prayed to and then consumed (cannibalism and vampirism), even though the apostles specifically condemned the consumption of blood (For the record I don't think that Roman Catholics are actually cannibals or vampires, but apparently they think that they are).

Lie.

The blood of Christ does not cover all of your sins but instead you have to pay in purgatory for your own.

Lie.

Prayers to the dead (the sin of necromancy) and bowing down in front of statues (the sin of idolatry) are acceptable acts of worship.

Lie.

The forbidding of marriage for the priesthood and the nuns, even though Paul referred to such practices as the doctrine of demons.

Lie.

Isaiah 2:6
For You have abandoned Your people, the house of Jacob, Because they are FILLED WITH INFLUENCES FROM THE EAST, And they are soothsayers like the Philistines, And they strike bargains with the children of foreigners.

Influences from the east? The RCC has that one in spades.

I could go on and on...

These are not simply "minor doctrinal differences". The Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon's probably have more in common with our beliefs than the RCC, but we're quite quick to distinguish them both as a cults (and rightly so), yet accept that born again believers can take part in Roman Catholic worship and fellowship. We have a pretty vicious double standard I'd say.

And like I said above, the Catholics do not have the exclusive rights to the title of Babylon. They have Methodists, Anglicans, Lutherans, and many other largely apostate groups clamoring for rights to that title these days. I'm not saying this is true of every member of every one of those groups, but soon there will be a line drawn in the sand, as we're seeing more of these denominations fall into apostasy with ordinations of homosexuals, ecumenism, denial of basic Christian doctrines, etc. etc. They're becoming quite willing to share in her immoralities, which is why the Lord calls them out, lest he throws them onto a bed of sickness, though He has given time for repentance.

In one town I lived in it wasn’t long ago that Protestant and catholic school children hated (ie feared) each other so much that they would walk on opposite sides of the street from each other – and even beat each other up. Where did they learn to do this?

That bears no essence on the issue at hand, again, truth is not defined by how people act (no matter what title they give themselves), but simply upon what the Bible defines as truth. If these children had the truth, they would share it with the Catholic children, out of concern for them, not avoid them like the plague.

Strong anti-Catholic rhetoric is fear driven – much like we see in Jesus day where the Jews hated the Samaritans. They stayed away from them thinking that would keep them pure. Why the need?

I'm glad that you've brought this point up. In the account we have in John 4 of Jesus with the Samaritan woman He deals with this exact issue. The Samaritan woman wanted the living water, but before He would give it, He addressed her sin. Then to divert the issue, she tries to play the same game that's being played these days saying, "Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."

The Samaritan's of antiquity and of modern times, treated the Torah in a similar fashion to the way the RCC handles the New Testament. They disregard it's specific commands on how the Lord was/is to be worshiped, and instead substitute it for their own invention. Same God (so they claim), but just a little bit different way of doing it.

How does Jesus respond to this though? Does John say that He commended her for giving it her all, and talk about the limitations of her experience, knowledge about Jewish history, and expectations of what God can do in the world?

Nope.

"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for SALVATION IS FROM THE JEWS. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit AND truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him MUST worship in spirit AND truth."

Sorry Mormons. Sorry Jehovah's witnesses. Sorry Roman Catholics. Your forms of worship didn't make the cut, even though you use the same names when talking about God and Jesus.

To say something to the contrary or to claim that God is somehow pleased with worship mixed with pagan idolatry and lies is simply to argue with the Words of Christ. Nothing less.

This is not "fear driven anti-Catholic rhetoric" that puts them on the other side of the fence, and keeps us away from them. This is the truth. The truth that sets free. If we didn't love Catholic people we wouldn't tell them the truth. We would just say, "Go ahead and continue in your abominations, we both serve Jesus, right?"

One cannot be a true doctor and not hate sickness and disease. One cannot be a true officer of the law and not hate lawlessness. One cannot be a follower of Christ and not hate the things that separate others from Him (like false religions).

My closest friend in Japan is a former Catholic. He'll be the first to tell you that the reason he converted is because someone loved him enough to tell him that he was following a lie. And he struggled through it. He rejected it at first, but the Truth set him free, and he came out from amongst Babylon because God calls His own out from her. The former Roman Catholics I know would be offended at the idea that one would stay within such idolatry, and they'd be the first to say so.

This is truth. Speaking the truth does not make one popular. Jesus said He came and was born into the world to testify to the truth. So they crucified Him for it. If one loves the Truth and proclaims it like He did, then they shouldn't expect anything less. He told us to expect it.

So all in all, I'm sorry to put it bluntly, but in all humility I have not read anything into the text that wasn't there. You've done the opposite though, and taken something away from Christ's words that were.

-Grant

i ministered with the catholic charismatics in its beginning and also with a priest/evangelist who had invitations to allow the people a saving knowlege of Jesus.jimp

I hope by that you mean that you ministered TO these Catholics and not in cooperation WITH them.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.

Ephesians 5:6-11

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. THEREFORE DO NOT BE PARTAKERS WITH THEM; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and TRUTH), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, BUT INSTEAD EVEN EXPOSE THEM,

"I hope by that you mean that you ministered TO these Catholics and not in cooperation WITH them."EverestoSama

Sadly, this is a prevailing attitude in many Charismatic circles. It is the cliff top of Ecumenicalism; the plateau where you begin to launch your slide into the "One God of all religion who loves all."

At the bottom, there is neither sin, nor holy conviction of it. There exists only a loving God that promotes happiness and permissiveness as a lifestyle, forged into whatever religious practice you deem best for you, AND FELLOWSHIP THERE IN BECOMES DEFILING, AS HOLY DOCTRINES ARE TRAMPLED UPON IN PRACTICE!

Mary Worship and Papal worship are "ok",and at times various genuflections toward the favorite saint of the day around your neck, or the statues surrounding the Roman temple Catholica; "It is just my way of worshipping in my faith!" The Word advises us differently.

"COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!"

"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

" And I heard another voice from heaven, saying,

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

" For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."

That is lovingly advising them that they MUSY repent, and turn to Jesus alone as they their back on idolatry, to rest and remain in God. There will be no salvation or any other way in this situation.

what it was is called revival.

If they got saved into the saving grace of Jesus Christ through faith in Him OUT OF the Catholic church than this is incredible. If they were led into or to continue in the Catholic Church, then this would not be a revival. This would be an abomination.

Jimp, respectfully, unless you can show me WITH SCRIPTURE why it's acceptable for any born again believer to participate in idolatry, and to encourage others to do the same, I frankly could care less about your personal experiences whether I was there or not. We will not be judged by the truth we created out of the understanding of our own experiences. We will be judged by the standard of His Word. If you cannot show me from the Word why it's acceptable to remain in the Roman Catholic church, then I must conclude that you have no real argument or say in the matter.

I am not saying a Catholic can not be saved. I am praying for my own mother to repent of her faith in the Roman Catholic church and seek JESUS. I believe that Catholics can repent and be saved but I don't see how a person who was a Catholic(as I was) who embraced all the pagan false traditions can go on in that idolatry after coming to know JESUS as LORD and Savior. Someone who is truly living for JESUS is not going to keep praying to Mary, dead saints, following the Pope or placing their hope and faith in Mary.Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Light.

You're 100% correct. Don't let anyone ever try to convince you otherwise. Every ex-Catholic I know will tell you that they're so glad someone had the love to tell them to come out of the false religion of Roman Catholicism, and showed them the truth. It's only those who hate Catholics that think you don't have to tell them that they're involved in idolatry, doctrines of demons, blasphemy, etc. etc. by remaining in the Catholic church. They think that as long as they use the name "Jesus" for their god it's all OK, isn't it?

On Mars Hill Paul also told the Greeks that their gods were false, and commanded that everyone repent. And yes, this is what is called wisdom.

What he DID NOT say though was,

"Well, looks like you guys probably serve the real God as well as the false ones. You maybe serve Him in a way that's a little different than my own, but as long as He's at least among the ranks of those you serve that's good enough for me. You say you have spiritual gifts too (and the Greeks had plenty of counterfeits of their own)? That's fantastic! Let's join hands and try and convert the Romans!"

And I can see that you really don't have any Scriptural evidence to show that it's OK for a Christian to continually participate in idolatry. You won't find any either.

You're not staying on topic, but skirting the issue to go down rabbit trails. I'm not talking about preaching the Gospel. I'm talking about whether or not a born again believer can remain in idolatry. Simple as that.

So, can they?

I just want this question answered with Scripture. Not with personal stories, experiences, challenges, comparisons, or ad hominem. It's quite strait forward. Just show me the answer from the Scriptures to this question;

CAN A BELIEVER CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE IN IDOLATRY AFTER THEY ARE BORN AGAIN ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE?

You go shopping sometimes do you not?

Sure do. Don't sweat much about either.

1 Corinthians 10:25-27

Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake; FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS. If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake.

But what I'm talking about is addressed earlier in the chapter;

Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."

Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.

You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

Since I've answered "yes" to your bait-and-switch question, could you answer mine with Scripture?

I love my mom and the thought of her dying and spending eternity in hell separated from GOD breaks my heart but I am not going to ignore the Biblical truth of the situation either.To much is at stake her salvation her eternity is at stake. I am going to pray and keep sharing with her as GOD gives me words and leading to do so.I am going to do my best to point her to JESUS and no other. I will do this in love with CHRIST leading but I'm not going to pray with her to Mary, or the dead saints. I am not going to support her notions that if she is good enough she will earn GODS favor. I am not going to follow the Catholic rituals with her and pretend that is loving her. I love my mother to much to lie to her or to just pretend everything is ok. I did that with my dad, I just can't do that again...

I pray that God blesses you and your testimony to your mother for your love of His truth.

Thank you for your response Diane, but I see it to be rather apples and oranges. The verses about the scarlet woman and her cup have clearly been outlined earlier in this thread. We are not talking about those who live in a corrupt system. We are talking about those who WILLINGLY continue to share in a cup of demons. The Scriptures are completely clear on this issue.

"these people [Roman Catholics] need mercy that only God gives."..jimp

It is true, and I try and approach them in that way, but it seems the hardest part is "TO COME OUT FROM HER!"..and I imagine it is because of the incredible maze of Dogma they ingest everyday as the only truth.

After being saved, without coming out all the way, you revert back to the lies; like a little bit of poison won't kill you. I have asked Roman Catholics that I was praying for [ for healing or salvation ] to directly renounce demonic worship practices, like some of them you have described below, and have seen dark forces rise up in them, with all kinds of manifestations.

They struggle with a spiritual indoctrination that has directly fed them with authentic "doctrines of demons", and valid manifestations of those one and same demons. They are often very hard to break without being baptised in the holy Spirit. Mercy! is right.