Fantasy and fiction, is that wrong.

looking for any scriptual belefis against or for fantasy and fiction. post anything you can think of. thanks.

Don't really have anything to say either way accept that time in the presence of the Lord is so much better. In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Building upon what Jeremy's stated, I reference Psalm 16:11, "You have made known to me the path of life; You will fill me with joy in Your presence, with eternal pleasures at Your right hand."Psalm 23:5..."You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows."I would rather have my mind constantly set on the Lord, than be in a fantasy world. Here, I reference Colossians 3:1-2..."Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things."The other thing that troubles me about sci-fi and fantasy is the content matter than most seem to share. Magic and spell-casting, witchcraft and sorcery are things that are detestable in God's sight. I do know that not all sci-fi and fantasy contain these elements, but quite a lot does. (I know because I took great interest in these things B.C.) There are many Biblical references to this that can be found throughout the Bible, from Isaiah to Acts and so forth. I'll list them if asked, but I think they're relatively easy to find on one's own.Again, hope I helped. :-)

Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. (Philippians 4:8 NASB)(emphasis mine)In Christ,Ron

so basically, ya'll all find nothing wrong with it if it has a Biblical Message? cool. that's what i needed to hear. thanks ya'll

Signed, Will

No, we did find a lot wrong with it. Reread those verses and what we've put forth on it. Why live in a fantasy world when the life we have in Christ is amazingly pleasing and fulfilling?

looking for any scriptual belefis against or for fantasy and fiction. post anything you can think of. thanks.Yes and no. Keep in mind, many (if not most or all) of Jesus's parables were fictional stories... fantasy. Though, consider 1 Tim 1:4 which says to stay away from myths. However, I believe that to be speaking of false religions, where their myths are portrayed as truth.But, maybe you have something more specific in mind?

If I'm not mistaken, I think VampireBite is speaking more along the lines of the popular genres of fantasy and science fiction.

As a young Christian one has to get the mind as well as the heart off of anything not belonging to Christ to be able to grow in Christ.A maturing Christian is not keen on leaving his position in Christ for anything that looks like gold.Lars

This topic is reminding me of two differing questions:"How close to the world can I get and still be a Christian?" as opposed to, "How close can I get to Jesus and still be on the Earth?"Wich group do you fall into?In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Certainly one of the most pregnant and provoking questions that need to find a strictly personalized answer. This is what maturity, renewal and revival is all about.Lars

Certainly God included the ability to fantasize into our creation. The problem however is that if you have fantasy without morality, you throw off any restraint that would keep this gift from becoming distorted by sin.If you look at early Disney movies in the end the evil person always was destroyed. Now the line between the good guy and the bad is blurred and at times we feel compassionate for the evil character. And this without any blemish on our own character.On the other hand when you look at Tokien's "Lord of the Rings" you see an example of the idea of ultimate evil confronted by that which is good. In the end of course, evil is defeated and that without remedy. Few of a right mind would find any attraction to the evil characters. No one questions Tolkien's Christian background is reflected in his writing.Finally, if we live our life without the restraints of morality (that is to say right and wrong) where do you ever decide that some things must be taboo. And if never taboo are we not become a world of iniquity. Who could quench such a fire!Tony Phillips

Very very good point, Tony. Tolkien didn't come to mind at first, but I definitely agree with you.

How does this apply?"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." Matthew 12 :30Leonard Ravenhill said that to be the Bride of Christ we must be divorced from the world. Things have one of two fathers. If God is not the father of the fantasy that we are looking at, then the father must be the devil. "He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap." Ecc 11:4This text discusses laziness and futility of thought.Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, [and] not out of the mouth of the LORD. They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. Jer 23:16-17I would say we need to be very careful with our imaginations. The occultic references in fanatasies such as the Lord of the Rings definitly point out there origins. We also need to ask ourselves why do we want the fantasy over the Word of God? Fantasy appeals to the flesh, not to the spirit. We can have the world as long as we dress it up in Christian clothes. Be cautious and beware that no man decieves you... ponder the scripture from Jeremiah 23. Read the whole chapter.Seeking truth,PhilipMal 3:16

Quote:"Things have one of two fathers." Do you think this applies to all things? Who is the "father" of the computer you are using? Who is the father of books? Who is the father of guitars? THe internet? How about painting?It is my understanding that these things, like the broad category of fantasy, are morally neutral. Categorically, they don't have God or the devil as thier father. And they are manipulated for both good and evil. This just made me wonder. Who would you say is the "father" of the cross? How about parables (which was explained as a type of fantasy or use of the imagination earlier)?

If any would to read more of H Bonar's Follow the Lamb click here. If you would like a pdf version with table of contents drop me an email I will send you one.

There is an interesting verse in Isaiah 26, which is much loved by Christians.Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind (03336) is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. {perfect…: Heb. peace, peace} {mind: or, thought, or, imagination} KJVThis word 'mind' (03336) is usually translated 'imagination' in the KJV. Young's Literal renders it : "An imagination supported Thou fortifiest peace—peace! For in Thee it is confident. Youngs"If you look up Strongs Word 03336 you will find it used 9 times. There are some powerful Bible statements on this topic e.g.Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination (03336) of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. continually.This is imagination gone wrong.1 Chronicles 29:18 O LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this for ever in the imagination (03336) of the thoughts of the heart of thy people, and prepare their heart unto thee:This is a prayer for imagination to be kept true.Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed (03336) say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?This is God's imagination at work.This last reference says that God 'imagined' us. As part of our 'likeness to God' we have a God-given imagination. In this case the English word can give us some clues; the root of imagination is image. Without God's imagination there would have been no creation; with human imagination there would be no creativity. As with all the best gifts, imagination can become powerfully corrupted, but the cure for abuse is not non-use but right-use.

There is an interesting verse in Isaiah 26, which is much loved by Christians.It's my background wallpaper!Thanks for the study as well as the link, great stuff! Also inadvertently you were used of the Lord (Ebenezer) to cause me to go mining into 1 Samuel, the types and shadows, parallels....!Much thanks for being amongst us and for all your contributions.Mike

Who would you say is the "father" of the cross?The father of the cross is God. It was his plan, he authored it."And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. " Rev 13:8How about parables (which was explained as a type of fantasy or use of the imagination earlier)?I believe that every word that Jesus said is true. If he says, " A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country." (Mk 12:1) then I believe that he is speaking of a certain time and place and action, not just making it up off the top of his head. Perhaps I am wrong, I stand to be corrected."Things have one of two fathers." This is in references to things of men, for example entertainment. Take 2 Cor 11:15 for example: Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.The devil will always try to take good things to seduce us with, and we need to be discerning. If there are occultic overtones in that which we take for entertainment, then should we doubt who the father of it is? I have heard people try to get a gospel to witness with, using the Matrix as their them... tell me, who is the father of the movie the matrix? Is it neutral? I agree there are good movies and bad movies, we don't throw out movies all together, just because they are bad. However, if they have worldly themes, who is the father of them? If they cause you to desire more of the world, what is thier origin? We swallow a lot of deceit to get truth from obscure places when not consuming the pure truth ourselves. What is the reason for that? Is it because our hearts are in love with the world? May we search our hearts. I stand open for correction on any point...PhilipSet your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:2-3 -"Is the life you are living worth Christ dying for?" -Ravenhill

I believe that every word that Jesus said is true. If he says, " A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country." (Mk 12:1) then I believe that he is speaking of a certain time and place and action, not just making it up off the top of his head. Perhaps I am wrong, I stand to be corrected.I can understand why you would want to think this but at least a couple of examples come to mind which would be difficult to fit it.e.g. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.and the amazing story of forgiveness in Matt 18:21-19:30The two servants each have a debt. One hundred pence is equivalent to 100 days labour in the grape harvest. If we estimate £30 per day, approx £3,000. It might have take three of four months to clear such a debt. 10,000 Attic talents is equivalent to £1.8bn. It would have taken 191693 years work in the grape harvest to have cleared that debt! (sorry about the GBPs but the 'standard day's wages for a labourer is a very useful measure.)I think this astronomical figure was almost certainly to make a point rather than to indicate the exact measure of his indebtedness. The man's request for time to pay is ludicrous with this kind of debt. As any offer of ours would be to repay our debt.That man's master released him and forgave the debt. Imagine; one moment he carried the weight of an almost unbelievable debt, the next moment it was gone! So has mine! Hallelujah.

Philip,You wrote:"The father of the cross is God. It was his plan, he authored it."So is "author" the same thing as "father?" Can you expand on that thought? If God is the father of the cross (and I am speaking of the cross in general as a means of torturous punishment), then doesn't this show that even things that God is the father of can be manipulated for evil purposes, and/or that GOd can use seemingly evil things for great good? Though this is very unclear to me.Quote:"This is in references to things of men, for example entertainment. Take 2 Cor 11:15 for example: Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."So are you saying that the devil is the father of entertainment? How does 2 Cor. 11:15 apply or show that (if that is what you are arguing, if not, what was your reason for including that Scripture)?QUote:"If they cause you to desire more of the world, what is thier origin?"It seems to me that if this happens it could be personal weakness that is the real problem, not necessarily the thing itself that is "causing" the problem. Sure, on the whole the world might have been better off without this "thing"; The Matrix for example. But since it's here, God can use it for good and good can come out of it. Where do you find the notion that everything ("of men" as you say) has one of 2 fathers? Do you feel that God has revealed that to you or is it from another source? Do you have any Biblical support for this (at least that you know of)?Quote:"However, if they have worldly themes, who is the father of them?"Doesn't the Bible have worldly themes?Quote:"We swallow a lot of deceit to get truth from obscure places when not consuming the pure truth ourselves. What is the reason for that? Is it because our hearts are in love with the world? May we search our hearts."Amen brother. This could be. I stand in agreement with you on this point. Let's be diligent to search our own hearts on this issue. I think that's where it should be left. Why not let God deal personally with each individual on this issue if instruction about it is not clearly shown in Scripture?

To those who have written and those who merely read.I have glanced through here after a rather extinsive leave of absense, and I am really tired, so I did not absorb most of the info, but the way i see this is:Some one said "Everything has one of 2 fathers" and basically summed up the whole good and vil, black and white type thing in that phrase, (again forgive me if I misssed some really importan thing you said, just PM me and I will address it.) any way... what they mean may have one of 2 fathers, but if a story can be used for Church edification or for ministries of some kind, Isn't it our Biblical duty to work in everyway for God. I have lead people to Christ by talking about Vampires. Hence one of the reasons for my name. Basically what I am saying is if it can be used of Christ, even if it wasn't made for Him, why shouldn't we use it?

Recently someone to a cheap shot at my name here on the site, I am now going to explain for your benefit why I chose this name. The world veiws Vampires as a sort of lower being, an evil that spreads from one body to the next, dragging it down into the depths of undead. Unfortunately they also often see Christians that way, look at the press, we are getting smeared left and right. Christianity was once a poin of pride, now we aren't even allowed to display the Ten Commandments in public. The world sees christians as lowly, boring, do this do that people, and we share our christian heritage and though it takes a while for new christians to calm down, we all eventually become complacent, happy to live our lives sitting in church wondering who will win the big game.Well, I say no more, I may be seen as a Bite, Infecting others with the boringness of Christ, but I am proud to tell others of my beleifs, and I refuse to simply carry my bible to the mall and say to Joe Goth, 'Hi I love Jesus, and He loves you.' cause that won't get you anywhere, I go stealth, I dress Goth, look Goth, and to an extint act Goth, and they accept me and it opens me up to hit them with Christ from a direction they aren't used to defending from, the inside.VampireBite is my name, but it is also my commitment to God and to the Church to never give up on the Goth's in the world, and to continue to 'infect' them with Christ.Thank You.