Gay Marriage will End up at the Supreme Court

California legislature voted that same sex marriage was okay. The people voted and said, 'No, it is not.' They took it to the courts. The California courts ruled that the people did not know what was best for their ownselves, so they overturned Propisiton 8. They ruled it was unconstitutional. Now it looks like it will head to he Supreme Court. Numerous other states across the US are in the same place. States like Maryland, Mass., Illinois, to name a few. States that stand under DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) think they are protected. But if the Supreme Court rules that gay marriage is constitutional, then all states will have to follow suit.

This same venue was set in the 1970's with another sin, called Abortion. I don't know how much was done by the church, I was only a child. But it is hard placed to find anything that shows the church was active in stopping abortion. It is seems we are doomed to repeat this same act of apathy and silence.

This ruling, probably sometime this year. My own personal opinion is that they will wait til after elections. They will decide yet again the way of a nation. You, as a reader, on a Christian website, would agree that the Supreme Court should not decide the way of a nation, but God's people should decide the way of a nation. Yet, we see a powerless church to be effective in stopping the onslaught of hell against our coutnry, our families, the church and yes, our very own lives.

Sin dominates the pews and the pulpits. And the one people, who can make a difference, the church, is passively engaged in enertainment, tv, computer and self. Without a cry from desperate people, there will be no change in the course set into motion. But God looks for a man, a woman, a people, that will humble themselves, get serious before God and plead in intercession that God in His wrath would remember mercy.

And if God sees fit to answer that prayer, and show us His glory, Revival will fill the land. Revival, as Tozer said, will change the community and change the course of political actions and ways of life in soceity.

These type of headlines should provoke us to action in our secret closets and corporate prayer times. Yet, the prayer closet, and prayer meetings seem to be something we have forgotten.

It is time to seek the Lord. Because the reality of our position is true, we are running out of time quickly. Up, brethren, it is time to go to war - spiritual warfare and claim back that which Satan has taken by the Sword of the Spriit and the continual place of prevailing prayer.

until,
dan b

In a nutshell, it communism.

____________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"Their agenda seems to enjoy the support if Congress, both sides of the aisle. Also the President. And yes even Mitt Romney."
____________________________________________________________

This issue places Christians in a serious predicament come November...

____________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"It ain't gonna leave"
____________________________________________________________

I suspect you are right.

If/since this is the case we must learn to cling to the LORD now...

As I meditate on this issue, I keep wishing people here on SI would get the book "Lead, Kindly Light" by Helen Grace Lescheid. In it the writer details the story of how life was like for her mother when Communism took over Russia. (This topic has driven me to reread the book.)

bearmaster wrote: Saints please wake up. You cannot ignore this reality
_________

I agree these are dark days but what I find confusing is some comments like the one above? What makes you think the reality is being ignored I wonder? I assume you are asking the saints to wake up to reality of the times and to pray but what else can be done except to trust in the LORD? I ask this in love because I want to better understand your heart in this...

I have read other comments(not from people on this forum) about standing our ground and standing firm and calls to action but very few ever mention the action they want to rally to? If it is prayer then I do pray often and will continue to if it is some other kind of action I guess I must admit I don't understand what it is some want to see happen???

Just trying to sort this all out. These are dark and confusing times and prayer is our number one weapon to use don't you think??

God Bless
mj

Mary Jane - Prayer is our only hope. And not just saying prayers, as is so often done in churches and prayer meetings. Prayer that is prevailing, angusihing, fervent and effective.
Many talk about doing something, standing our ground, coming up with plans. But in truth, all we need to do is wait upon the Lord.
'go to Jerusalem, and wait, and you shall be endued with power from on high'.
We want to be endued to do something; we are in willing to go to wAshington to speak, rally, or whatever. But very few are willing to wait before the Lord and be still. The church has failed in this discipline of obedience and ran off in their own strength only to fail. Much like the children of Israel did after God told them they would not enter into the promised land. They rose up and said, 'We will take the land.' But God was not with them, and they were defeated. All the while, MOses and the ark sat in the camp. This is where we are at. There must be concerts of prayer. the church must become a House of Prayer and wait before the Lord for His help, favor, forgiveness and enduement. Then we will arise and see the darkness pushed back. "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit saith the Lord."

by dbiser on 2012/6/6 5:15:41

Mary Jane - Prayer is our only hope. And not just saying prayers, as is so often done in churches and prayer meetings. Prayer that is prevailing, angusihing, fervent and effective.

_________

I have always thought that too, prayer is the best thing we can do. Seek HIS KINGDOM and trust HIM in all things. I know the LORD is faithful and I know HE has a plan so I pray.

God Bless
mj

My point is Democracy is not God's way. God always appointed Kings to his people, he never let them choose a king. So if you are in a democracy then you will face issues because you are already against God's system. It is better not to expect anything Good from this already corrupt system.

How in a democratic Godless society do you expect a laws to be made based on God's will? It is like requesting Satan to do Good for you.

Sree I understand some of what you are saying but on this issue the judges are the one's over ruling the majority of the society of people who you say are so godless but it seems to me on this one the majority of the society of people are more in line with God's moral standard of decency.

Sree I understand some of what you are saying but on this issue the judges are the one's over ruling the majority of the society of people who you say are so godless but it seems to me on this one the majority of the society of people are more in line with God's moral standard of decency.

I am not saying the people are Godless, the system the people have choosen - Democracy is not God's way. I understand that there is a majority now in this society who are against Gay laws, but there is a minority who want this law. How in a democratic country can you ignore the voice of a minority saying they are not important?

The point I am making is, the root cause of all these issues is, Men started deciding what is right for them instead of God deciding it. So what is right for me is not the same for another.

{quote}
I am not saying the people are Godless, the system the people have choosen - Democracy is not God's way. I understand that there is a majority now in this society who are against Gay laws, but there is a minority who want this law. How in a democratic country can you ignore the voice of a minority saying they are not important?

The point I am making is, the root cause of all these issues is, Men started deciding what is right for them instead of God deciding it. So what is right for me is not the same for another.
{/quote}

You say democracy is not God's way but how would you like to see the USA being govern. There are many countries that are not free and many Christians are being persecuted in those countries. There are countries led by a dictatorship, communism, and so forth. There is no country on the earth that is being led under theocracy for this will not happen until the Lord returns to reign.

How do you want the USA to be govern? If you had been here when the US constitution was set up what would you have wanted to see happen? Just what do you think would be a better governing of the people in the USA?

Just wondering...

Just a reminder, but America is not a democracy. It is a "constitutional republic." There is a big difference between the two.

A democracy is most typically identified with "majority rule." The founding fathers feared the concept of "tyranny of the majority," so they established a constitutional republic -- a government of laws that all men would be governed by. There are, of course, democratic elements within a constitutional republic (via elections of representatives and propositions).

In this particular case, the problem isn't "tyranny of the majority" but "tyranny of the minority." The voice of the people, their rights and views have been increasingly assaulted by a small group (or, in this case, a few appointed judges).

As rbanks reminded us, the founding fathers tried to come up with the best form of government at the time. They came out of a constitutional monarchy where the monarch ruled by birth and not by consent. Interestingly, this was a much more efficient and modern form of government at that time. However, the American colonies were concerned about the lack of representation in government and leaders who the people did not consent to.

The Declaration of Independence is an interesting document to read in the context of the times that it was written. It contains a clear rationale for declaring that the American colonies were free and independent (*but united) states that stood apart from the Crown.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Now, the Declaration of Independence is not an official, binding government document. It predates the Constitution by more than a decade. However, the founding fathers felt that a constitutional republic would be the most effective form of government to establish the rule of law, provide representation in both government and law and, finally, provide as much liberty to the people without trampling on the rights of a few.

Yet, a "constitutional republic" (which is also the basis of STATE government too) allows for the voice of the people to directly affect law too. This comes in the form of amendments to the Constitution. In the case of California (and, more recently, North Carolina), the people of the state voted to retain the traditional definition of the marriage contract. This was the SECOND time that the people of California voted as such. Yet, both times, appointed judges decided to make this a "equal protection" issue and invoke the 14th Amendment as a reason to say that a Constitutional Amendment is "unconstitutional."

This case is about a definition more than anything else. A small group (homosexuals) wants to redefine the historic terms of a particular contract (marriage) to include their lifestyle (homosexuality). This is not about equal protection -- because they already have the same contractual protections. It is about trying to redefine a term and force all of the people, businesses, government agencies and organizations in the state to embrace their new definition of that term (the "marriage" contract).

When this goes to the Supreme Court, I suspect that the Justices will see this as a contract issue and rule against the activist judges and on behalf of the people of the state who voted to retain the longterm definition and not allow a small group to force others to include them in the definition of that contract.

You say democracy is not God's way but how would you like to see the USA being govern. There are many countries that are not free and many Christians are being persecuted in those countries. There are countries led by a dictatorship, communism, and so forth. There is no country on the earth that is being led under theocracy for this will not happen until the Lord returns to reign.

I never said Dictatorship is right. I agree with you there is no country on earth including US that is truly governed by God. And it will not happen until Jesus comes back. So there is no way we can expect laws in any country that are based on God's standards and values. There will be persecutions and we have to endure it. Jesus said the same. So to summarize Gay rights and marriages are inevitable, they will happen. The route that we have taken, we cannot force anyone to obey God's law. There is no nation in this world that is Christian in nature.
Also I do not believe that Church has to get involved in these gay marriage laws.

QUOTE: " I don't know how much was done by the church, I was only a child. But it is hard placed to find anything that shows the church was active in stopping abortion. It is seems we are doomed to repeat this same act of apathy and silence."==DBISER

I think this assessment is very unfair. Like you said, you were only a child. There has been a GREAT deal done by the church to try to fight against the abortion industry AND also in the fight against the advance of the sodomites in taking over this country. To say there has been "apathy and silence" is greatly mistaken. I myself have been a member of both national and state Right To Life on the abortion front, and i myself have been outspoken in the media and on a personal level against homosexuality. And i have suffered some consequences for it at times. There have also been people all over the nation who picket against one and the other. Isn't there a group also, called the Westboro Baptist Church that has been picketing military funerals claiming that the deaths of soldiers is God's judgement on this country for homosex and abortion etc? I don't agree with this tactic of their's AT ALL, and i believe they are doing GREAT harm and bringing shame upon the Lord with their lack of compassion for grieving families, but one can hardly accuse THEM of being "apathy and silence". Just an example.

amen dbiser ,,is that short for dan biser

if my people who are call by my name will humble them selfs
and seek my face

then i will heal there land

goes some thing like that

furvert prayer scercet,and colective for hours everry day ,for a season

a season of seperation

the seperations is the preperation

casting all our god givern liberts to the bottom of our to do list

and the first ten things on our daily to do list

prayer

prayer

bible medatation

prayer

prayer

bible medatation

prayer

prayer

bible medatation

more prayer

you can fill in the blancks

[ ]

[ [

[ ]

[ ]

[ ]

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"I don't know how much was done by the church, I was only a child. But it is hard placed to find anything that shows the church was active in stopping abortion. It is seems we are doomed to repeat this same act of apathy and silence."
______________________________________________________________

There have been many individuals from a wide range of churches involved in battling this evil. The problem lies in the church itself.

The clergy and laypersons share equal blame, IMHO. The church does not discipline erring members. They stay there and work as leaven, infecting the entire brotherhood.

Some could say that since abortion is bad we keep our babies, and so they did. BUT fornication is still wrong regardless of the outcome.

You have those that do get pregnant but do not want a child so they abort and this is understood by others as justifiable.

You have singles having babies, keeping them and other girls are wooed by their cuteness and you can't say anything negative about a child! So people refrain and the young take it to understand that immorality is not so bad after all. Under all this is a perverted doctrine of forgiveness in action.

How can a church fight against this evil when they allow the purveyors of these evils to entertain them with their music and movies? It is like eating poison and hope you will be the exception in experiencing its consequence. You cannot allow yourself to be entertained by the devil and experience the blessings of the LORD, either individually or corporately.

Sree wrote:
My point is Democracy is not God's way. God always appointed Kings to his people, he never let them choose a king. So if you are in a democracy then you will face issues because you are already against God's system. It is better not to expect anything Good from this already corrupt system.

How in a democratic Godless society do you expect a laws to be made based on God's will? It is like requesting Satan to do Good for you.

Bro, the system of government in America is NOT the problem, the peoples sins are the problem; there is sin in the camp! It rains on the just and on the unjust whether we live in China, Brazil, England or America and we need to stop blaming and get busy praying.

God bless you,
Lisa

Thanks Chris, Lisa, and Krispy!

God Bless you Brother Chris for your excellent post concerning the forefathers of America and the Constitution. Yesterday as I was looking at what Sree wrote and also thinking about the many times people are so critical of the USA it dawned on me as to how would they have done it differently. Chris I appreciate you, brother, and your stand and character has been a blessing to me over the few years I have been on SI. I have seen you handle others attacks with an excellent spirit.

Sree, you said that the church should not get involved with the vote concerning the marriage amendment. I must say that I am really rethinking on a lot of things and although I do not get involved in politic I still believe that the church is to pray most of all, but sometimes it needs to act but only as God leads.

Let me give you a scenario, let’s say you were born and raised in the USA and you are presently living in a city of 1000 people. There is a situation coming up where the people are to vote on an issue that will determine the state of affairs. Let’s say they are going to pass a law that young people can buy alcohol and some small amounts of drugs at the age of 16. Also there is an amendment that says teachers can teach elementary children all about homosexuality stating that it is an acceptable lifestyle. Now in your town where you live are many Christian people who have children that have been raised to live for the Lord. Let’s say that you are blessed to live in an area of 700 Christian people and only 300 are not Christians. Now the leaders of the government have decided that the Christians should not vote (just a scenario because in the USA everyone of an adult age has the right to vote), because they are only squatters because their kingdom is not of this world even though they still live here. Now let’s say that 100 of the remaining people really want homosexuality to be taught to the young and also alcohol and drugs for the teens at the age of sixteen. The other 200, some of them really don’t care. So they go to the polls to vote and because 700 Christian people couldn’t vote, the state of affairs will be changed to now have Children being taught homosexuality and teens can now get alcohol and drugs at 16 years of age. Oh and I forgot to tell you that you as a Christian must pay your taxes and your Children must go to the public school and be taught homosexuality as being acceptable and having it explained to them.

Now how do you think your town is now going to be affected? How do you think you and your family will be affected?

Hi bearmaster,

Obviously, we shouldn't "worship America." However, I don't know any believers who worship America, the founding fathers, the Constitution, the Republican party, the Tea Party, democracy or their American heritage.

I don't know who you have actually met who really does those things, Bearmaster. Are you sure that they are "worshiping" such things...or, perhaps, that they simply have a different opinion about such things than you? If you have met individuals who are worshiping something other than God, then you should warn them. However, you should be careful not to be an accuser of believers based upon "blanket" assumptions or opinions.

By the way, I find it interesting that the apostles didn't focus on perpetual warnings about government or government involvement. Paul, Peter, James and John didn't write much about Rome -- which was quite pagan to its core. They focused upon spiritual matters. When Peter met with Cornelius, he didn't engage in a long diatribe about how he needed to quit his post as a Centurion. He simply introduced this god-fearing man to Christ.

Thanks Steve and Chris for your understanding and wisdom!

Yes bearmaster, I would encourage you to repent of worshipping America if that is what you are doing but also maybe you need to also repent of some other things also while you are in the repenting mode.

Yes I do thank God for having the privilege of living in the USA and only hope that others could have freedom of worship in the country they live in also. Anyone living in the USA ought to be thankful and do all they can in helping to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world.

I am sorry to disappoint all the USA haters but I don’t hate the USA but only pray that many will wake up and realize how important the gospel of Jesus Christ really is and also hope that many more will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I very much agree with your last post bearmaster however that doesn't mean we should be ignorant to our surroundings and our responsibilities. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't appreciate things and show honor to the leaders of our society and pray for them.

Sister Lisa,

I am not against America. Infact I live in US and I believe that God brought me here to become a Christian. But I strongly believe that this is not a Christian nation and infact no nation is Christian. A true Christian nation will have its leaders appointed by God and not by men. I am not willing to argue with it. It is my personal view. Also God's Blessing is not a sign of God's acceptance (proof Matthew 5-45).

My point in this thread is- America is Republic (as said by you) and People choose its leaders and all its people have the right to choose the leaders. There is equality among them. Not all of them are believers and there is a minority (could even be majority but that is not my concern here) that do not want to obey God's law. Then how can we say to these minority that they have to give up their rights and follow only God's law? You cannot. The problem if you think deep is not in having a minority of unGodly people in US. There will always be such men among us, Jesus said very few will find the narrow way and many will take a broader way.