Man Dies At Benny Hinn Crusade

Benny Hinn and others like Kenneth Hagan are a bunch of false teachers and prophets Benny is a proven false prophet.Kenneth is one of the Prosperity Teachers and even worse one of the Laughing Gospel teachers.Jesus Told us about these things when he said somewhere, "But they will tell me we drove out demons and healed the sick in your name, But I will tell them what you did was unauthorized get away from me you doers of evil".The quote is from memory so if you have the actual scripture plz post.PS I fell away once, because in part I attended a church that taught the prosperity gospel and when I found out, I was heart broken and began to question the Word of God. Please you chosen few beware of those evil dogs.

that's crazy... I was always unsure about Benny Hinn and some of these other preachers...God knows the truth though and will judge accordingly. There are some out there with healing ministries (not sure who) but they get drowned out by the false healers as do other people who have certain gifts from God, we tend to see more of the counterfeiters and because of that we tend to write off some of the things that God is still doing from the time of the apostles.

Danger! Don't fall away on account of those Dogs!Yes I agree that the Holy Spirit can heal the sick and bestows gifts in accordance to his will.However I remind you of the Warning our LORD gave us about these last days.And again Paul says something like..."beware of those evil dogs those mutilators of the flesh for we are the circumcision it is we who pray in the spirit. And again somewhere it says that we should TEST the Spirits and ourselves.If your a new Christian and you read this don't fall away on account of the false teachers like I did, but instead seek what is true and let your Allegiance be for Jesus Christ and Not MEN.And if you consider yourself a rooted Christian and filled with The Holy Spirit, examine even more carefully every thing you hear, with what the Word of God says. Finally Brothers it is no bother for me to tell you these things again as it is a safe guard for you and for me, Beware of those Dogs.

AgesOfWarTrue indeed we are to test these thing in the spirit by the Holy spirit and He will give us discernement so we can tell what is real and what is not.

1John:4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.AMEN!!!

Thanks 4AM. I'm glad someone finally spoke up. I second that. Love, Dian.

God heals today in answer to prayer, but He does not promise always to heal and there are no apostolic gifts of healing operative today.”If there is no apostolic gifts of healing operative today, then Jesus Christ is dead.

If there is no apostolic gifts of healing operative today, then Jesus Christ is dead.JimmyI'm not unsympathetic to what I think you are saying but this is a bit stark, would you expand it a little?

JimmyI'm not unsympathetic to what I think you are saying but this is a bit stark, would you expand it a little?The gifts of the Spirit are entirely based upon the heavenly life of Christ, and we as believers being part of that body which is alive from the grave. They are not something the apostles in themselves owned. To say that these gifts no longer are available on this side of glory is to say that Christ is dead. For the same life Christ has enjoyed 2,000 years ago is the same life Christ enjoys today, and the rest of His body with it.

Mat 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? Brethren.There are many threads if one were to do a search through this site on the antics of this man and his ministry. Many of us here have been affected by and through it. There are accounts told and untold of the harm being done. This regrettably is not the first time nor dare I say likely the last that we will hear of another victim fallen in this way.More so, if I may say, the spiritual damage, the misleading and just the mere fact that this whole thing is built upon the wrong premise, the wrong foundation.IRONMANThere are some out there with healing ministries (not sure who) but they get drowned out by the false healers as do other people who have certain gifts from God,I don't think so. What is a 'healing ministry'?And don't get me wrong, not an accusation and your "(not sure who)" is telling. Am not sure either, because where do we have any account of such a thing in scripture, even in 'principle'?Did Jesus have a "healing ministry" as such?We need to go further back of these things and get at the root. Who is exalted here? Is it truly the Lord? Is this what comes to mind when we think of these types of 'ministries'? Or is it someone else? I refer back to the scripture above. There is something entirely missing from all of this as it is inverted, misapplied or relegated to the side line or as a add on. And that is just that this is a false gospel. It's what we can get out of God, not that we come as repentant sinners asking for forgiveness and then to be healed of the plagues of our heart, the biggest that we have sinned against Him.Did Jesus die to heal our body's, that will perish anyway? To make us "happy"?, "prosperous"? Ten Shekels and A Shirt coming into play in it's full force here and that is exactly what is being promoted at the root of it all. Humanism with Christian overtones.It is just as absurd to think that no one gets healed anymore, oddly the greatest healing that can ever happen to anyone gets trampled underfoot by mostly all this psychological manipulation and that is the miracle healing of a changed disposition. Let's not belittle the pains and physical ailments that many suffer from and some even get healed of, if the Lord chooses to do so. But to buttress up a false hope and then underline it with a quasi, not always openly stated sense of the idea that it is because you lack 'faith' that you are not being healed is pure nonsense and destroying peoples ability to get at the heart of the matter.Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.That sums up as well the whole issue of how this ought to be treated and reflects on:And is it your job in God's eyes to tear down others and talk bad about them? I believe that the information you are telling is being told by the Devil's own people.....so you can instead pray for Mr. Hinn and the dead person's loved ones that are in mourning if this account is true instead of sinning by talking bad about others.That would surely be missing the point altogether. To go out of the way to tear some one down or to stay silent on the matter are the wrong options.Facts are that people are being mislead, mis-feed and abused and on that we must not be silent. This is neither a witch hunt nor a 'there are some good things we can glean of it' situation.I am just as sure that not only do a few people get saved or even healed of what ails them at one of these events, despite all that happens there. That doesn't lend any credibility to it anymore than a drunk man in a bar coming to the consciousness realization that he is under judgment. That doesn't make the bar holy because of it.Will not God acknowledge those who are truly repentant and seeking after Him? Not just what they can get out of it for themselves?Listen to this cry and see if it doesn't reverberate within us:"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears." Act 20:28-31This is what the issue is:AgesofWarPS I fell away once, because in part I attended a church that taught the prosperity gospel and when I found out, I was heart broken and began to question the Word of God.That is what brings the tears. Not from observation but by experience. It's redundant to say so, but I bought the T-Shirt and the tapes and the books, the whole 9 yards. After hearing the so called 'condemning voices',those 'judging' brothers, those few voices that had the gall to call these 'ministries' on the carpet, it rattled me. "How dare they say such things!" "Touch not the Lords annoint...." "Look at all the people being saved" But I thank God for them. It made me be a Berean and to go find out if these things 'were so'. And as I came to the realization that I had been duped by a false Gospel I came right up to that same line of falling away. Who to believe? It was a time of much confusion, I was broken hearted and beginning to question everything. Permanently etched in my mind was standing in the door way the night my wife came home from work and no longer able to keep this to myself, knowing I had to tell her the truth of what I had discovered. She loved these people and all that they promoted, more so than I as she had been primarily taught 'Christianity' through them. With tears I told her we had been duped, swallowed a lie and that this was all a fraud. Though there was some initial understanding, there would be many years of struggle to unlearn and sort through the half-truths and even that which was true mixed in to make it all one giant mess. To this day there is still residue that comes up out of it, especially when it comes to healing in her mind. It caused me ultimately to pull out of the church we were in when I could stand it no more.Beloved, the issue is not one of judging but of getting at the truth of the matter. This is not the gospel. It is not. It is something else entirely, it may be a form there of with bandages and attachments and 'Christian lingo', but it is still false. And suffice it to say that it is not just here alone in this particular construct, but even larger in the church as a whole. Will save that for another thread.Would also state that there has to be some spiritual maturity in all of this. The opposite error is to come out from under a bad, heretical* ministry and turn into a legalist, pouncing on every undotted "i" and leading yourself or others into a different form of bondage. Have that t-shirt as well...*HereticHER'ETIC, n.1. A person under any religion, but particularly the christian, who holds and teaches opinions repugnant to the established faith, or that which is made the standard of orthodoxy. In strictness, among christians, a person who holds and avows religious opinions contrary to the doctrines of Scripture, the only rule of faith and practice.2. Any one who maintains erroneous opinions.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"There are people who think that God is only around to help us. We have a great utility God, they think. You pray, and He does this! You pray, and He does that! You pray, and He sends you money. You pray, and He gets you out of a jam. He’s not somebody you worship in speechless adoration, but He’s a utility God! And some on TV are exploiting that to the maximum." -Leonard Ravenhill

I don't think so. What is a 'healing ministry'?And don't get me wrong, not an accusation and your "(not sure who)" is telling. Am not sure either, because where do we have any account of such a thing in scripture, even in 'principle'?I really have never watched Mr. Benny so I have no opinion of him either way (luckily), but I must say generally speaking, (not at all directed towards you brother Mike :-)), we Christians have more faith in the power of the Devil than we do the power of God. Back home (Africa) there are many healers and there is nothing fake about them, they can actually heal you. This a demonstration of demonic power being used to show the validity of fake religions. A person is healed by a false religion then all of a sudden, the religion is not false (to them). How is it that we do not believe that God can still heal and perform miracles through us? Every ministry has a different role to play.1 Corinthians 12:1-11 1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit;to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. Consider this:Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part.[We must be careful not to stone everyone who “followeth not with us” (I am not speaking of Mr. Benny here). I tend to support my brother who says, “There are some out there with healing ministries (not sure who) but they get drowned out by the false healers as do other people who have certain gifts from God,”. Listen to Mr. Ravenhill’s interview and here about the manifestations he speaks of, “people being lifted into the air and carried from one end of the room to the other under conviction of sin by the power of the Spirit” as he said, “I’ve seen people come out of wheel chairs and blind eyes opened after we prayed”. Just some thoughts…James

I found this on another site some time ago..."In 1989 I attended the Holiness Conference at the Vineyard Anaheim, then on Cerritos, and Leonard Ravenhill and Rick Joyner were among the speakers….I remember vividly the power of God’s conviction falling on the mass of people gathered when Leonard Ravenhill spoke….There I met a man fromNew Zealand, who was a pastor there, and suddenly the conversation in a waiting line had turned to talking about the glory and Ananias and Sapphira…to which he explained how his church for one full year had prayed for the glory to come down. Then one Sunday it did….and 8 people dropped dead instantly…. just like Ananias and Sapphira ! I’ll never forget this man’s admonition to be careful what you pray for ! There is a deception we have in taking too lightly God’s presence, and His standard of holiness."I am by no means trying to explain what happened to the man who died but God's power is the same yesterday today and for eternity...it is us who have lost the glory.

Hi James,Fortunate for you that you have been spared and that's not a swipe...Just to clarify a bit. What is promoted and seen in one of these 'events' is of Mr. Hinn hovering over people, 'slaying them in the spirit' (the order is usually reversed actually) a lot of yelling and frankly anger, not always of the 'demons come out of him' sort, the 'authority' that he may be trying to convince someone he might have is theatrical at best. This is basically a show with himself as the main attraction. Worse yet is the manipulation that goes on. The slow repetitive strains of the 'Hallelujah' chorus playing over and over, talking about a half hour or more at a time, playing on peoples emotions, this is nothing short of hypnotism. Much, much more could be said.Like the money plea's...What I was driving at earlier is that to have a ministry that is centered on and around healing is not in and of itself wrong. There are all kinds of ministries that have certain focus's.But if that is to take the focus off the place of Christ and His work, then what exactly is a 'ministry' doing?And in this instance, the draw is always to 'come get healed'. That is the emphasis, with the prosperity thrown in for good measure, it certainly 'works' for him. The Lord is secondary no matter how much His name is being used. It's orchestrated like a rock band on tour. Staging, lights, the whole production. The Holy Spirit never fails to show up, he has Mr. Hinn's schedule to keep after all.It is all a sham and a mockery. It's difficult to not let the emotions spill forth here. Peoples lives have been ruined because of this. Financial ruin. People who should be seeing a physician will neglect that to follow this man instead. Spiritually, how many have turned from the faith that we never hear from? What of all those who don't get healed in one of his meetings? I mean the ones that don't have a specific enough problem to make a good showing for his TV program later on. Many are turned away. What of them? What of the ones that have had an emotional experience and now are confused because they 'think' they were healed and now...?Have even heard him tout this incredible idea about 'how to not lose your healing'...Lose it?It's insanity and will state that it is a rare thing that anybody is truly being healed at all there.Never seen a blind man see.A deaf man hear (though he's tried to pull that one off)Anyone grow a limb back.It's really very simple. Proof.There is none. No evidence has ever been produced to show anything that truly was a real healing.IF he has a true and real gift of healing than why on earth doesn't he go and start emptying the hospitals? Where's the compassion?Instead he is bilking the unsuspecting of their money all in the name of Christianity. He owns his own private jet, surrounds himself with bodyguards (odd no? where's his 'faith'?) stays in expensive hotels on his followers dime...Getting back to your comments. This is not a case where this applies:Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part.A bit of commentary:Mar 9:40 - He that is not against us, is on our part - Or rather, Whosoever is not against You, is for You. Instead of ἡμων, us, I would read ὑμων, you, on the authority of ADSHV, upwards of forty others, Syriac, Armenian, Persic, Coptic, Ethiopic, Gothic, Slavonic, Vulgate, Itala, Victor, and Opt. This reading is more consistent with the context - He followed not us - well, he is not against You; and he who is not against you, in such a work, may be fairly presumed to be on your side.There is a parallel case to this mentioned in Num_11:26-29, which, for the elucidation of this passage, I will transcribe. “The Spirit rested upon Eldad and Medad, and they prophesied in the camp. And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. And Joshua, the servant of Moses, said, My lord Moses, forbid them! And Moses said unto him, Enviest Thou for My sake? Would God, that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his Spirit upon them.” The reader will easily observe that Joshua and John were of the same bigoted spirit; and that Jesus and Moses acted from the spirit of candour and benevolence. See the notes on Num_11:25-29 (note).Adam ClarkeThe emphasis is not on the man as much as it is on the attitude of Joshua and John. This doesn't butress the idea either that Mr. Hinn gets a free pass and tends to lend again to the 'touch not the Lords anointed'. Even if he portends to be on 'our side' that doesn't stop the argument that he is fraudulent. Because if any one is being healed there it is despite his efforts not because of them.Besides that, what would it mean to be on the Lords side? Willing to lay down your life, to accept criticism and persecution? Sigh, I just don't know of any other way to state these things, it is so grevious... we Christians have more faith in the power of the Devil than we do the power of God. Back home (Africa) there are many healers and there is nothing fake about them, they can actually heal you. This a demonstration of demonic power being used to show the validity of fake religions. A person is healed by a false religion then all of a sudden, the religion is not false (to them). How is it that we do not believe that God can still heal and perform miracles through us? Every ministry has a different role to play.Brother, am not of a cessationist mindset in the least. But fake is fake and like all things in this walk we are supposed to be purveyors of truth. But I am a little unclear what you mean here in this. I don't doubt this at all. It's truly scriptural;2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.Have listened to and watched some footage of a Hmong shaman from a missionary that was dealing with just these sort of things with people caught up in it. And this brother was anything but flippant about dealing with this realm, nor was he some kind of flamboyant personality. Sat transfixed on what he shared with us in a small group and he wouldn't allow it to get to far afield as to take the emphasis off what was in his mind the real spiritual battle; Living a Holy life.How is it that we do not believe that God can still heal and perform miracles through us?That is not the argument here at all and maybe you are just directing it in general. But the muddiness is that by having this type of 'ministry' in the first place it seems you end up taking sides as it were. Just because what is being done is false doesn't negate anything that God can and will do as is His own prerogative. Nor by denouncing these circus performances do we necessarily go off the rails and not believe in a God who still heals, even physical ailments. Not in the least.That Ravenhill quote prompted some more thought brother. Which might have more validity to it, a man who pours out his very life for the Gospel or one who is fleecing the flock? It's an issue of integrity and character and would take Ravenhills word for it based on that alone.

Oh, just to clarify…these “healers/witchdoctors” (N’anga) are certainly not Christian and the fee for their work is often a large sum of money or involves breaking the law either of man or of God. It is demonic without a doubt. They cast spells and curses. Having been exposed to Hollywood here, even I can feel how ridiculous that sounds but believe me, it is very real. That was not the point (actually the point was not clear from that) at all though, the point was, it is easier for people to accept that the powers of darkness can manifest this kind of power than it is for them to believe in the power of God. As you rightly discerned, this is a general statement. That Ravenhill quote prompted some more thought brother. Which might have more validity to it, a man who pours out his very life for the Gospel or one who is fleecing the flock? It's an issue of integrity and character and would take Ravenhills word for it based on that alone.I know nothing of Mr. Hinn, but based on what I know of you I willing to accept that there is something disturbingly false about him… It's an issue of integrity and character James

IF he has a true and real gift of healing than why on earth doesn't he go and start emptying the hospitals? Where's the compassion?Jesus never emptied out hospitals. Sometimes, such as at the pool in Bethesda, he would be surrounded by crowds of sick people, yet sometimes would just heal one. The gift is just that... it's not available to be used anytime one wants to.

Hi James,Oh, just to clarify…these “healers/witchdoctors” (N’anga) are certainly not Christian and the fee for their work is often a large sum of money or involves breaking the law either of man or of God. It is demonic without a doubt. They cast spells and curses. Having been exposed to Hollywood here, even I can feel how ridiculous that sounds but believe me, it is very real. That was not the point (actually the point was not clear from that) at all though, the point was, it is easier for people to accept that the powers of darkness can manifest this kind of power than it is for them to believe in the power of God. As you rightly discerned, this is a general statement. Would agree with that, thanks for clarifying. Guess I was just trying to differentiate and again that's what can make things so muddy. The power of God is on display, regardless.Jesus never emptied out hospitals. Sometimes, such as at the pool in Bethesda, he would be surrounded by crowds of sick people, yet sometimes would just heal one. The gift is just that... it's not available to be used anytime one wants to.Good point brother.And neither did he hold 'healing crusades' either, no cynicism intended.Greg, I "borrowed" that Ravenhill quote from the "Ravenhill Quotes" thread...was actually looking for something else... :-)

And neither did he hold 'healing crusades' either,Indeed at that.

i was wondering if the article said where in the crowd the man was?http://www.indiasalvationcrusade.com/photo3.htmtell me, in this crowd in someone died how long would it take to hear of it.also it cant be put on benny hinns head he was responsable for it, or can it?

7 million people in attendance. What are they turning out to see? Is it a sign of spiritual hunger? Or just curiosity about the American `faith show`?I'm headed for Bangalore at the end of April for 2 weeks to do VBS. Any prayers you can send up for my team and the kids we will be teaching, would be appreciated. BANGALORE: The protest over the Festival of Blessings programme escalated on Friday with widespread arson and stone-pelting across the city, which left several persons injured. Normal life was disrupted as angry mobs forcibly shut down shops and blocked traffic in many areas following the bandh call given by the Hindu Jagran Vedike to protest the show by evangelist Benny Hinn. BMTC bore the brunt of the mobs ire as over 110 buses were damaged. Many private vehicles were also damaged. Agitators went on a rampage pelting stones and setting fire to buses in places across the city. Police lobbed tear gas shells and lathicharged crowds at several places. The trouble began around 6 am when a mob stopped a BMTC bus and set it on fire after forcing commuters to get off. Buses parked in the terminal were set on fire. The police were caught off guard as most of the force was at the Jakkur airfield, the venue for the programme.

matt 11-7,8As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8“But what did you go out to see?luke 9-77Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by Him; and he was perplexed, because it was said by some that John had risen from the dead, 8and by some that Elijah had appeared, and by others that one of the old prophets had risen again. 9Herod said, “John I have beheaded, but who is this of whom I hear such things?” So he sought to see Him.luke 19-1.51Then Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. 2Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. 3And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. 4So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. 5And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him,john12-17,26 Therefore the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of his tomb and raised him from the dead, bore witness. 18For this reason the people also met Him, because they heard that He had done this sign. 19The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, “You see that you are accomplishing nothing. Look, the world has gone after Him!”20Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast. 21Then they came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.” 22Philip came and told Andrew, and in turn Andrew and Philip told Jesus. 23But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. 24“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25“He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26“If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.they did the same with John the baptistthey did the same with Jesus christtheve done the same all through historythere doing it now with benny hinn.what did they go to see?who knows?who knows a mans heart cept him & the Lord

7 million people in attendance. What are they turning out to see? Is it a sign of spiritual hunger? Or just curiosity about the American `faith show`?Can the Lord Jesus use what it wrong to bring what is right? Can OUR Great GOD almighty use the armies of Darkness to do his own will?Read the book of Amos Plz.Don’t forget that Jesus did not come to us to sow peace. For a Husband will turn against his Wife and a Father against his son. There will be 5 in a house and 3 will be against 2.I Think on my GOD, our God makes everything work well for them who Love him.Benny will go and do his tricks and he will deceive many as he himself is being deceived. He will go from bad to worse and those who Love this World will go right along with him.We will still pray for those lost yes even Benny, and we will still speak the Truth that our Great GOD commands us to speak.Think these things below over:The Devil had to ask for permission to Test Job, Satan Had To Ask For Permission To Test JOB!!!!!!(the book of Job)Benny is a False Prophet so are so many others but they cannot overcome the Elect. It’s Just not possible. JESUS said “even if it were Possible” Not that it was possible. [Please note that the only way we are not deceived is by being filled with the spirit and testing the spirits and matching everything we hear with what is written.]We are called to warn the Elect of God (those few who care nothing for what this world offers).We are called to warn those who want the Kingdom and God as the King of it. If your body is broken what does it matter>? Shouldn’t your hope be for a new one?If you Pray for a healed body but have a heart not dedicated to Christ can you be expected to be healed? The reason many are not saved is that there motives are wrong! They want Joy here on Earth and not suffering! They Want the Easy life! They Want God The Genie in a Bible!!They do not repent or they Repent as a way to get what they want!! I urge you… See that you are a sinner and expect nothing but suffering, persecution, and Peace besides, but let your true rewards be in Heaven when Our Great God Lord Jesus will say“Well Done Good and Faithful Servant”Ok if you wanted a signed bible from Benny hinn guess how much it costs... (In 2003)$50.00 usd$100.00 usd$1000.00 usdDid you guess 50.00?Did you guess 100.00?Well if you guessed $1000.00 then you were correct!Watch those Evil Dogs and warn the Sheep!In Love Michael

At some point this begins to get old and appear to be nothing more than bashing. But there is a glaring inconsistency here;"While prayers and high-decibel choir sessions under dazzling lights and special effects drew applause, the healing sessions at the end drew protests and questions by rationalists and rightwing Hindu activists on the “miracle powers” of the Israeli-born Hinn. In fact, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has demanded the resignation of Dharam Singh for permitting Hinn to conduct the festival and “mislead” the people with his healing powers to cure the sick and terminal patients. Challenging Hinn's claims that several people got cured of their diseases by participating in the prayer-cum-healing sessions with the blessings of Jesus Christ, Hindu activists said an equal number of sick went home disappointed with no change in their health condition. Refuting the charges, Hinn told the gathering that god alone was the healer and he simply prayed to invoke the lord's blessings to cure the sick and help the poor as Jesus Christ did over 2,000 years ago. “I want to dispel apprehensions that I have come here to convert people. It is not true. I am only a servant of Jesus. I came here because people in India also need healing, just like anywhere in the world. God wants to heal. That is why millions of people have come to attend the festival and not for me,” Hinn asserted."http://www.indiasalvationcrusade.com/index.htmIf the latter part be true, then why are they still sending out their pleas to 'sow seed' into his ministry to 'save souls'? From his own site talking about the festival in India;"I was asked over and over, “How do you feel about all this opposition?” The answer was very simple: “My job is to preach the love of Jesus Christ, even to those who oppose the preaching of the Gospel.” Now in Manila, I am anticipating the Lord’s amazing provision of still more massive crowds—5-million are expected—as hungry souls gather to hear the saving and healing message of the glorious Gospel. I believe, more than ever, that God is asking you and me to go to the nations of the world and tell them about His precious Son, Jesus Christ. Doors are opening all over the world as never before, and the Gospel message is being welcomed in nations whose borders were once closed. I’m willing to go. I’m willing to spend and be spent for the sake of the Gospel. Will you send me to the nations by sowing a sacrificial seed today so that I can preach the Gospel to the vast fields of human souls ripening all around us and help me reap a supernatural harvest of souls for eternity? Conversion is an option? Which gospel does he speak of? There is also another harvest of souls for eternity, tares.More goobledegook...BANGALORE: For three days now, the city has groaned under the weight of the Benny Hinn show. Many of the apparently 'healed' have justified the need for the mega event despite the multitude of problems. But the jury is still out on whether Hinn is a fraud or someone with connections to the Lord. Questions preying on people's minds regarding Hinn's healing methods and utterances indicate that that all may not have been above board. Sample these: • Why were only those 'cured' allowed on stage? Colonel Samuel (retd) suffers from immobility of the right side of the body. Hoping for a miracle, he, with wife in tow, managed to shuffle up to the stage. Only to be jostled away by an organiser who said: "Only if you are healed can you go on stage. If you're not healed by Jesus, your time has not come." • Are they really cured forever? •Why are there no doctors from city hospitals, but mostly from Hinn's Ministry? • What actually is the 'miracle'? •What is his modus operandi? Neither Hinn nor his stooges have any answer except a tepid, 'Faith'. One question that will probably never be answered is: how many of the 'healed' will wake up one of these mornings, after Hinn has left for greener pastures, feeling unhealed? Like all faith healers, Benny Hinn Inc. is unwilling to put the 'healing' claims to scientific scrutiny. Pre- and post-'healing' medical records can tell the truth, but nobody is volunteering this information; neither are they keeping a count of the 'healed'. Responding to TOI's query on some people rushing to the stage for a cure, Hinn said: "This is psychosomatic healing wherein the mind is capable of enabling the body to think itself healed. Even before I come on stage, there have been cases where people have been healed; the music, prayers and atmosphere add to it." Hinn's organisers had a different take: they said prayers were responsible for the 'healing' and 'miracles'. Even before Hinn's visit, rationalists had voiced apprehensions about mass hysteria that can overtake a person and claim a cure. Explains magician K.S. Ramesh: "I have made Ganesha drink 10 litres of milk. I have performed the healing operations that psychic surgeons perform, but I tell people it's magic and there is no religion involved. Faith is a multi-million industry." Hinn's Ministry is an opulent one, making $100 million a year globally; of this, Rs 15 crore to Rs 20 crore is raised by the Indian chapter alone. When Hinn said, "I have met the Pope twice," someone wondered aloud, "Why can't he cure the ailing Pope then?" Whether Hinn will come back to India is a million-dollar question. He will, nevertheless, continue to reap the harvest of his Bangalore show. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/999261.cms"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." W. C. Fields

by formidable on 2005/2/12 22:02:36 i was wondering if the article said where in the crowd the man was?http://www.indiasalvationcrusade.com/photo3.htmtell me, in this crowd in someone died how long would it take to hear of it.also it cant be put on benny hinns head he was responsable for it, or can it?Here is the original;http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jan232005/i4.aspBut to answer your question, hard to say, in fact wouldn't even go that far. But it does remain part of the problem and raises a whole host of questions. Should people with serious medical problems such as a man with a heart condition be brought out to hear a mere man who is promoting a mixed up version of quasi-Christianity, dangling a carrot of hope of healing... This is not the first time someone has died because of this man and his antics. "Accessory"comes to mind.

sheez!! From the size of that crowd, if he was sitting at the back and wanted to respond to the healing meassage he would have to have been a fit bloke just to get to the front before they wrapped the whole thing up. :-)

CrsscheckI don't think so. What is a 'healing ministry'?And don't get me wrong, not an accusation and your "(not sure who)" is telling. Am not sure either, because where do we have any account of such a thing in scripture, even in 'principle'?Did Jesus have a "healing ministry" as such?Jesus did heal people of various afflictions did He not? And did He not also say to His disciples that you would do these things and even greater things also? I haven't encountered someone with a healing ministry (someone who has the God-given ability to heal afflictions) but I have heard of them. They may not have a megachurch or anything like that but I have no doubt that there are people out there who have that gift as well as many other kinds of gifts by the Holy Spirit according to God's will.

I view the giftings of the Spirit differently than most. Tradition has placed the giftings of the Holy Spirit on one person in any congration, usually the pastor.But the early church operated as a whole and the Lord was given liberty to move through his body of believers as he seen fit. I see healings and the other manisfestations being possible as the Body of Christ (the local assembly of believers) becomes free to exercise thoughs giftings.While the five fold ministry as a gift to the church helps to mature and even educate and instruct ect.... the body so they can function as Jesus Christ on earth.

I would like to add my voice of opinion to this thread. I for one have never approved of the antics of Benny Henn and the other prosperity preachers. But over the years I have learnt to be more careful about my views and expression of them. It is my belief that these men were chosen of God to do His will but through their own lusts and sins have departed from the truth to pursue their own agenda. Nevertheless I do not see it as my calling or ministry to "expose" or "reveal" these men as frauds it is not my calling to set up websites scrutinising their every word and error some people get a real kick out of tearing down "men of God". I point others to what the bible says in contridiction to their behaviors but I will not raise my hand agianst them. Let God be their judge! like David with Saul even though Saul was off the wall He refused to violate Gods annointed. Will we be guilty of doing that which David dared not do? in this age their seems to be a thirsty desire to ridicule or mock all human authority we need to be careful God is not only watching those who misuse their authority but also our response to leaders both good and bad. Are we really blameless? be warned we may find ourselves having to give an account for how we have responded to bad leadership. are we really trying to warn others or do we have a chip on our shoulder towards authority? (check out John Bevere's book Undercover) If our light is bright and clear in holiness people will see and follow. I believe our lack of annointing and holiness has us on the backfoot defending the faith instead of advancing it. God recently spoke to me after I had been moaning at the increase of sin and godless behaviour all around me he said to me "never mind what others are doing, you take care of your own business and do what I am calling you to do". If we the church would be Holy and seek the fulness of the Spirit I believe we would not be losing sleep over these people . Benny Hinn and co are in their place because God put them there I do not agree with their ways but I do know it not my place to cast stones (Shimei 2Samuel-16:5; Solomon eventually judged him) we must pray for them and those who are misled by them. In most cases I have found that those such people who chase such ministrys do so willingly not having an appetite for strong meat, it is what they want, they like the candy. As for their doctrines truth to extremes will always lead to error, I believe in healings and miracles nothing is impossible to those who bellieve; yet I also bellieve in holiness and purity balance is needed in all of life. I urge all to commit these men into Gods hands that He would turn their hearts or judge them in His own time. But let us be careful let none of us become self appointed judges casting stones that we should not be handling.

Here's a bit of interesting information:My dad and Benny Hinn used to be best friends before he went into the television ministry. They both were involved in a group called "Shekinah" led by Merv and Merla Watson (you may have heard of the Tornoto Catacombs Ministry?) that ministered all over the world. My dad and Benny roomed together throughout that time and became best friends. Benny was even the best man at my dad's wedding!My dad was at Hinn's first meeting, a small meeting with only 30 people or so, but the Holy Spirit came powerfully and moved mightily. When Kathryn Kulhman died, the TV people asked Benny to take her place (I guess he had a reputation for his healing ministry) and Benny conceeded. He asked my dad to come with him into the ministry but my dad declined, feeling it was not the Lord's will for him.Well, as things are now, my dad is a no-name Christian living in New Brunswick and Benny Hinn is a famous televangelist, but I'm glad my father didn't go, because he is the most godly man I have ever met.What do I think about Benny Hinn now? From what my dad tells me, Benny was a wonderful friend and Christian brother and had a true and sincere love for the Lord.Benny pretty much went from being a nobody to being really famous, and we can all agree that an alteration such as his could very easily ruin Christian character. It requires great strength to sustain.My dad saw Benny after many years (I actually was there as well, but only two years old) when he held a crusade that was reachable for us. Because he remembered dad, they planned to meet and we had dinner with him at a resturaunt, with Peter Youngren as well. My mother and father can only say that they noticed a big change in Benny, not like he was before.The best thing to do when we are dealing with issues such as these are pray for the people rather than bring curses down upon them. They need salvation just as much as anyone, and it breaks my heart to think that someone as genuine and sincere as Benny has been brought to the place he is today.I thought you all might be interested in this, I'll be happy to answer any questions if you have any.In Christ Jesus,-Eli

Yeah, I agree. Thanks for the good post Krispy.And don't get me wrong... I'm all for exposing falsehood ;-)

Benny Hinn had a crowd of 7 million! Imagine if a John Wesley or George Whitefield had a crowd like that! There is something here in this but I do not know how to say it.If a false teacher is preaching to 7 million. Why not a true preacher of righteousness.Where is God in all this? Is God trying to say anything here? Or am I just out there in this?

Not to mention that this simply harkens to free will and itching ears.People will hear what they want to hear and pay money to be told lies that are sweet. There's nothing God can do about that. When you think about it, there's definitely a thin veneer of nastiness and selfLESSness that covers true Gospel. It's why most of the world doesn't want to have anything to do with it, because they don't bother to see past the surface to the wonderful loving gift beneath. People who follow the likes of Benny Hinn are being spoon-fed sugared milk mingled with a heaping of poison.Much like eating a big mac. ;-)

Can anybody tell me what is exactly wrong with Benny Hinn? What about his preaching, lifestyle is so repugnant?

I don't think I will do that as I can find dirt on Billy Graham on the internet. So who is telling the truth, everyone has an axe to grind. I mean they even dispute that Jesus exists on the internet. I enjoyed that guy whose father knew Benny Hinn, he really had a first hand account of what is going on. All we have is the internet, very very realiable....NOT!Shalom 8-)

KrispyKrittr wrote:Read his books. Which books? I have read good morning Holy Spirit and the other one about the same theme, other that that I don't know of any of his other books.

KrispyKrittr wrote:I was into WOF and Charismania for a looong time. Did you leave the truth behind that was taught in those teachings?

Can anybody tell me what is exactly wrong with Benny Hinn? What about his preaching, lifestyle is so repugnantHi Zeke,This current thread, I believe was started near a week ago. And I am certain there have been other threads in the past. This man Benny Hinn has been directly or indirectly referred to in these threads as a False Prophet, a wolf, and a dog. I have not recommended his Ministry because I could not get beyond what in my opinion I can only describe as His flamboyant platform style. It has always been a turnoff to me personally.I have heard audio clips on the internet of him that would suggest, at least to me some most incredible claims of healing, and even more so His exasperation with what he terms as "heresy hunters." and yet........... unless I have missed it here (on SI), I have not read of the exact references to what some perceive as his unscriptural teachings.Surely there are members here, that have researched his teachings and will post them so we can all take a look together.God Bless,tony

TonyS wrote:I have not recommended his Ministry because I could not get beyond what in my opinion I can only describe as His flamboyant platform style. It has always been a turnoff to me personally.Thanks Tony, That may be a big key to the whole thing, is it his style or is it that he is playing in left field with the heretics? Is it that he is not as sombre/sobre as Keith Daniel? From the sounds of things it is sad that he only focusses on one aspect of scripture and is not tied into a local church. He could be doing amzing things.

Hi Tony,and yet........... unless I have missed it here (on SI), I have not read of the exact references to what some perceive as his unscriptural teachings.Surely there are members here, that have researched his teachings and will post them so we can all take a look together.At one of Benny Hinn's recent "partners" conference which aired on his show I witnessed him teaching what is called "neo-gnosticism." Basically it is an extremely rigid definition of the human dividing them up body/soul/spirit. While it's true that those are our constituent parts, this false teaching misunderstands the meaning of the flesh (carnal) nature and assigns it to the body. This allows for the "spirit" to be saved while the "flesh" is still bound in sin. The soul meanwhile is basically amoral, but is influenced by either the "spirit" or the "body." The carnal nature, however, is not limited to your flesh (i.e. skin, bones, blood...etc.) The carnal nature is YOU. That's why you must crucify the flesh(YOU), in other words die to yourself. The carnal nature (the flesh) touches all of the person body/soul/spirit. Our mind is darkened, our spirit is marred and our body becomes a tool to satisfy our carnal desires.Benny Hinn also teaches the Word of Faith doctrine which is unbiblical. Paul warned Timothy that men would one day teach that "gain is godliness" This is the essence of the Word of Faith doctrine. I don't doubt that Benny Hinn really believes what he says but belief is only as good as what it's believing in. Here's some links to threads that are on this topic:Benny Hinn Exposed?This one contains an excellent article:David Ravenhill on Modern Money ChangersBenny Hinn: Unity in the BodyIn Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Thank you Jeremy,I have not yet, but I will read through all the links you have provided.I as well am a "Pentecostal" Christian, and it is always assumed that I am in the same camp as men such as Benny Hinn. And am usually made to feel the brunt of tirades against him, leaving me to wonder what it was that just hit me!! And so I know these links will prove helpful.tony

some info for yaMinistry & ChurchBenny Hinn is the founder of the Orlando Christian Centre, which later became the World Outreach Centre in Florida and since 1999 his enterprise is known as The Faith World Church. His TV broadcast service reaches about 100 million homes in the USA and Canada. He also ministers at meetings and crusades worldwide.Beliefs & Key DoctrinesAlthough admitting to no formal Bible training Hinn claims to be evangelical. He claims special revelatory knowledge and personal encounters with God.Ministry EmphasisHinn majors on healing, deliverance, 'slaying in the Spirit', signs and wonders, which are performed in huge auditoriums before many thousands of people, unaccompanied by any exegetical teaching from the Bible. Hinn's own church is reputed to have a weekly attendance of about 10,000 people. The raising of money is an ongoing plea at meetings and on TV broadcasts.Books AuthoredGood Morning Holy Spirit: was released in October 1990 and has been a best seller ever sinceWar In The HeavenliesKnown AssociatesPaul Couch and his TBN broadcasting networkMentorHinn confesses to have been profoundly influenced by the ministry of Kathryn Khulman and Aimee Semple-Mcpherson. Both provided the impetus for his own healing ministry. He claims to continue finding inspiration when visiting their graves, where he senses their presence and by spending time in meditation, receives what he refers to as an 'anointing'.Hinn's ministry and doctrines embrace some of the heresies propounded by E.W.Keynon, Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland.StrengthsVery charismatic personality.WeaknessesMany of Hinn's doctrines have been widely and publicly denounced by several apologetic and discernment ministries. The content of his addresses are often confusing, contradictory and inconsistent. He has publicaly apologised on a TV documentary to lying at a previous interview. Investigations regarding many of his family's history claims were not able to be substantiated.Truth Watch: Assessment / WarningThis man has a huge world wide following, he is very wealthy, charges substantial sums of money to attend his conferences and sees the need to have bodyguards. Confessing to no formal Bible training he claims that "God launched me into ministry overnight." He also believes that the mantle of Kathryn Khulman fell on him at her death.After ministering at meetings Hinn will often be unable to recall anything he has said, stating that God takes over his mind and tongue. He claims to have revelations, conversations and physical encounters with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. One of his most bizarre doctrines was that each of the Trinity were each in turn a three part being. He later recanted. His testimony of communicating with McPherson and Khulman amounts to necromancy.Hinn has the ability to whip up high emotions, he uses auto suggestion preceding prayer for healing by getting his audience to repeat loudly for example, "it is his will to heal me." Blowing on people or waving his jacket will see people falling down in large numbers; there have been accidents as a result.No person, with only a basic knowledge of scripture could take this man seriously. To quote one recent critic from a discernment ministry, some of Hinn's latest statements are "the ranting of a buffoon." Due to his aberrations, Hinn has been banned by the Italian Assemblies of God. After a recent New Zealand visit, the NZ Assemblies of God has stated they will no longer host him.

U know seeing is beliveing so check this site out and listen for yourselfs and watch these guys go at it.http://www.bible.ca/tongues-audio-video-documentation.htmPS. Don't Let these false teacher make you lose heart like I did when I first found out about these guys years ago.PPS Stay Close to the Lord there are good teachers out there. Not all are corrupt and remmeber that the Bible warns us about such things, Warns us alot.

I don't think I will do that as I can find dirt on Billy Graham on the internet. So who is telling the truth, everyone has an axe to grind. I mean they even dispute that Jesus exists on the internet. I enjoyed that guy whose father knew Benny Hinn, he really had a first hand account of what is going on. All we have is the internet, very very realiable....NOT!Hi ZekeO,Many of us have had our share of first hand experiences and there would have to be a lot of backtracking through all these threads to recount them all.The internet, like all things has both reliable and unreliable accounts. The more balanced and thorough will usually try and back up with some type of documentation. A site that is on the up and up I believe can be found here as it relates to this discussion:http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/Hinn.htmlMentioned earlier was the question to what scriptural problems that he teaches. One of the glaring that first arrested my attention even as I had been following Mr. Hinn was a tape of his I was listening to and he was discussing the will of God. At one point he stated that we should not ask what the will of the Lord is on specific matters. Now realizing I could have misunderstood where he was trying to go with it, the red flag still came up as I recalled the verses in James. He went on to teach that we should know what the Lords will is because He has already told us in His word. If it had stopped at the thought of for instance "that all men might be saved" perhaps, but as he went on the jarring part was that he said "we should never pray that the Lords will be done". "It is Gods will that you be healed, it is Gods will that you prosper..." and so on. It had gone on to presumption. That was the first seed of questioning in my mind, but as is to be expected when you are enamored with someone the tendency is to suppress these things and look askance at others who might be trying to bring these errors to light.Need to confess a couple of things. Earlier I may have gone against my own convictions in being too harsh with my words and I ask for forgiveness there. And by no means excusing that will go even a bit further. Can recall a time a couple of years ago praying and had picked up somewhere along the line, perhaps from a message, about forgiveness and the idea of asking the Lord to bring to mind those who you had not forgiven. The first name to come to mind was Benny Hinn.It was more than just his ministry and the people being misled. Could recall further back in my mindset at that time how I was rehashing some of the things I had heard and seen, personal experiences, the deceptions of the whole WOF that I had been caught up in and had gone over the edge of grieving into outright hatred toward these men personally. The wrong spirit and I had need of repentance.One of the difficulties in exposing error is that there is still truth there. The devil was a master at this, think it is easy to forget that he knows scripture quite well, better than many a theologian. So to torque something out of context, misapply it, draw a different intention other than what was meant is the heart of error.Another personal example. The 'Covenant Partners' conference we attended (which is geared to the idea that you are special and receive special blessings because of your great giving, it may not be overt but it is the underlining idea behind it)was conducted over three days and he was teaching on end times, Revelations and Daniel. Still have my notes from that time, might have to dig them up. But just in recalling, he did a pretty good job of breaking down Daniels vision and the representation of the nations and so forth. And yet in this same conference to pronounce in an agitated manner suddenly that "The Holy Spirit is Here!" and the confusion that resulted, having everyone line up quickly around the hotel conference room, facing the wallsso we could be herded past him and his people to 'receive the anointing' meaning the hand on forehead psychological manipulation of being 'slain in the spirit' is something I will never forget, it was chilling and took a lot of suppressing to even go along with it, to even leave my seat. It was all very animated and hasty. I know this is redundant but I was very concerned as I couldn't help but wonder of the parallels to Jim Jones and even had fears as to what further ends this all might lead.Then the money stuff. "The Lord is telling me that there are 5 people who are to give $1,000 to this ministry tonight" , "And a couple of you $5,000" And we waited until those came forth. Watched a man in front of me write out a check, for what amount I don't know but he brought it forward. One young man who could not speak English was so taken up in this that he came forward and gave his watch, he was in tears. This prompted others to come forward and offer theirs to this man. The pressure was unbelievable as the exhortations to give were being pronounced, emotions being played on, very confusing and was feeling quite ill in my gut over all that was happening.The problem with all of this is just that. It is confusing. Especially to newer believers. The whole thing obviously detracts from the Lord and attracts to the man. You are left with a sense of not wanting to listen to the questions in your mind because "He is a great man of God" "Look at the people being healed, saved etc..." So you suppress things and the longer you get caught up in it the more difficult it is to see and hear where others are pointing out error. You become hardened in your own suppression and everyone else is the heretic etc.Had a conversation last year with a sister who is agonizing over this with her family who happen to be very close to Benny. One who very is good friends with him and just in talking with her have no reason to doubt what she is saying. As much as she trys to bring out the truth even in a loving way, she is rebuffed with the 'touch not the Lords anointed'. She confided in me because of my own past history. I couldn't offer anything more than to weep with her and pray for the situation.The long term effects of this and similar teaching that raises such 'controversy' is not to bash needlessly, though because it can be so grievous think that is why some of us go to far even as that is still unacceptable. Indignation yes, certainly. When you are still living with the residue of this type of teaching with those you love a wall gets erected. A dividing wall, a defensive wall, an accusing wall. That you are only interested in tearing someone down.Every time this comes up my first reaction is to run in the other direction. Neils recent posting of the sorry and sad situation with the 'drunk in the spirit'... all I can say is that had to truly been the Lord telling him "Not to say a word" if not for that restraint,.... I know what you mean brother if you are reading along here. These things always put me in a tail spin spiritually. That along with the snipping and bitting and misunderstanding....It is clearing up it seems and am truly thankful for that for all that have been participating throughout this forum. Many things cross over between topics of discussion around here and probably the biggest of all that gets off track is in that one word;Misunderstanding.Of intent and motives for exposing error.Of pride and one-up-man-shipOf expression and lack in doing that well.Surely we are in need of patience with one another.An understanding of the Lords words that we all be one, in spirit and in truth.A willingness to not be offended and defensive of our selves nor to compromise core truths.To reach out to help those caught up in error is love, not hate, if that is the intent and yes, just as sadly it does go to the opposite extremeunfortunately, defeating the purpose and making the argument void in effect. But there are times when the argument must be forceful, a jarring to the senses. Even Gods wrath is bore out of His great love, not that that is a role any of us ought to take upon ourselves. Surely we can point to it and proclaim it and warn of it.By and large the Fear of the Lord has become an almost lost doctrine in many of these modern ideas and 'new' teachings. Prosperity, healing, self advancement and 'realization', 'our' purpose, 'our' pleasure. It seems upside down and inside out. Presumption and flippancy, a good time and 'blessings', it's all about us.The whole landscape and character traits of what a Christian is have changed. Think that is why so many have left the modern day institutions in search of what they know deep down inside is missing. It would be just as absurd to make that a blanket statement for everyone and every church but just in the fact that significant numbers are leaving is telling. Don't want to go off on that whole thing here.But personally what made this site such a glaring diamond out of the muck was that I found here where things had gotten off track. The preachers and messages, sermons found here have that ring of truth even as they are challenging. It is not the be all end all but the message is uncompromising and balanced by and large.

Hi Krispy,Neil... I dont wear labels... I'm just a disciple of Jesus Christ. I don't wear labels either, but if the label does fit I don't mind what I'm called. I think we tend to go to extremes in either direction even in how we identify ourselves. Even the title of Christian was at one time a label. I'm a Pentecostal because that's the best way to describe my theological bent, a classical Pentecostal to be more precise. I'll even let someone call me a charismatic if they define what they mean by that term. ;-) I go to an Assembly of God church and am working on my credentials through them, so I guess I wouldn't mind being called an A/G Christian--lately though I've been disappointed with the direction the leaders of my denomination have been taking the A/G's But the label does fit me, so I don't mind.I think sometimes we tend to demonize the wrong thing. I was talking to crsschk on the phone a few days ago and we came to the agreement that a denomination isn't bad until you put the "ism" on the end of it.Although I am a Pentecostal Christian, like you I am upset at the abuses that go on among the Charismatic churches. Many of my friends who are ministers are equally upset. But anyway, I'm not trying to disagree with you or defend labels. I'm just offering a different viewpoint from a different perspective. :-D In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

crsschk wrote:The problem with all of this is just that. It is confusing. Especially to newer believers. Thanks Mike,This really makes me grateful for the church that I have, I would say that we are charismatic, but bible charismatics. I have said this before, but this whole thread and others like it, have really highlight the fact that what you get saved into is far more important that what you get saved out of.

KrispyKrittr wrote:ZekeO ... the town your from has quite a name!It is a throw back to great voortrekker leaders who were running away from the Brits. Surprised is lasted this long in the present political climate.My home town is called Horse Shoe... short and simple.But odd. :-P

I made that stipulation , "Pentecostal" on this forum in answer to the website that ages of war posted up, because that website highlighted guys like John Scotland, very confused men like John Scotland and was saying, "here's a Pentecostal". Saying that John Scotland is Pentecostal is like saying that ..........Michael Jackson is a child care provider.I would agree with you. That site is not a good site to get info about Pentecostalism. It is extremely anti-pentecostal to the point that it paints all charismatics with a very wide brush stroke. It is extremely cessationist so I'm condemned already by them for simply being a practicing pentecostal.

even if you look at Jesus ministry they never came to know him, it says "he had no appeareance to make us desire him" they came for healing and deliverance it was hand in hand when he preached and thats what happens in benny hinns crusades, half of them get healed walking in without asking and they are hindus and get saved Jesus walks amongst the crowd doing his own thinghttp://www.bennyhinn.org/dnld/fob05brochure.swfa little side thought towards how we start or finish,a friend has said well when your bringing 7million to hear the gospel at your crusades to hear the word only Jesus, then your critcism is valid.i have to agree its how we end we so leave out the POWER OF GOD who knows all our hearts,why we were there, what we wanted, what we will do,he can save to the uttermost or not, as my friend saideven if you dont agree jesus would have been walking through the crowd doing his own thing

Please Note:The Web site spoken of by Hulsey in the quote below was posted a while back by me, and was only to show some video and audio clips, I never even read into the site's theology.I personally do believe that the Spirit of God grants gifts as listed in the Bible, and I believe He does so in this Last Age.However Benny hinn has gotten himself into the Prosperity Gospel and has made a lot of false prophetic statements, as well as hinting at a form of Necromancy. Also He Uses the Holy Spirit in a way that does not line up with JESUS.However if you Read Amos you will find that GOD uses things that are meant for evil for GOOD.Benny can do no harm to the true Children of GOD, for they are in the Hands of JESUS.However He can hurt new and inexperienced Christians when they put there hopes in a man instead of The Man.In Christ Michael