Does the Bible say that we are Justified by faith alone??
Sola fide
"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." - James 2:24
"For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” - Matthew 12:37
"and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." - Romans 3:24
"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." - Romans 3:28
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," - Romans 5:1
"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" - Romans 5:9
In the above passages I believe it is clearly stated in scriptures.
1. We are justified by faith that comes along with works. If works are not present in a faith that it is not true faith. It is not the works that save someone but the true faith that is active with works. James 2:24
2. Jesus taught that we are justified by our words, with our mouth of confession of believing in His Name, he will mention us before the Father and His holy angels. Faith is therefore not silent it speaks. Matthew 12:37
3. It is also taught in scriptures that we are justified as a free gift that cannot be earned. It is 100% free and can only be accepted and acted upon. Romans 3:24
4. The works of the law will never justify any. So we must be justified apart from the law and its works. Therefore our justification looks to Christ who came as a new covenant, new promise to us from God. Romans 3:28
5. We are justified through faith. So it is not a one time belief that saves us but our justification is based upon a continual believing in Christ and His redemption until the end. We cannot ever be free from needing His grace. Romans 5:1
6. We have been justified and make righteous to God through the blood of Christ. And we will be saved from the coming wrath and judgment of God as we abide in Christ and His atonement for us which will produce an active faith daily. Romans 5:9
Our security is in Christ alone. But the scriptures do not teach faith alone. For faith apart from works is dead. Faith also needs to be active for demons have faith but do not live in righteousness. Faith also needs to have a voice we need to confess Christ before others. Faith also needs to rest and trust daily and be reckoned upon.
"Does the Bible say that we are Justified by faith alone?"
Faith is not possible without grace.
We have heard so much about Being Saved by Faith Alone, that I actually for some reason thought that there was a verse that said by Faith Alone and there is but what it says is just the opposit as saying that we are Justified by faith alone. Faith and Alone are found in James ch 2 17 Even so (faith), if it hath not works, is dead, being (alone.)
James ch 2 v 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (alone).
What do you see has been some of the implications of adding the Word (Alone) to the scripture, When Scripture says just the opposit??
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
1) sermonindex: are the above verses of the Holy Word truth or not?
2) this thread needs to be accounted for by all moderators of this website forum
3) based on this thread alone, it is clear that the gospel of Jesus Christ - the whole meaning behind his Holy Word - is not known
hi, the definition of faith:hear the personal directive word from God, (ramah) receive this word< believe this word , obey this word.God told noah to build a ark...etc God told abram to leave ur and seek a city... this is beyond the law. God told me that He sent His Son to die in my place and to die to myself and receive Him as my Lord and i simply obeyed.jimp grace is that directive word from God to direct you to His plan for your life.
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
1) sermonindex: are the above verses of the Holy Word truth or not?2) this thread needs to be accounted for by all moderators of this website forum
3) based on this thread alone, it is clear that the gospel of Jesus Christ - the whole meaning behind his Holy Word - is not known
Hi FaithAlone,
Great to see you here!
The keyword in both of the scriptures that you posted above is 'LAW', works of the law are contrasted with works of the Spirit throughout the New Covenant.
We are saved by faith, and the evidence of out spiritual regeneration is carried out daily in the works that we do. This is the very core of what James is talking about and the verse that Western Christianity hates.
A regenerated thief will return what he has stolen because he was regenerated. Returning what he has stolen was not a condition for his regeneration but it is the fruit of genuine conversion (a work of the Spirit).
Here are some works of the Spirit:
You pray for those that persecute you.
You honestly love your enemies.
You don't return insults with insults (ouch this hurts, myself guilty but the Lord is not through with me yet).
You have apologized to those whom you have offended or sinned against in the past.
The doctrine of 'faith alone' (please understand that I'm not directing this at you personally, seriously) has produced many 'twice the sons of hell' (Jesus' words) who sincerely believe that they are saved, but if you took them to court and demanded that they show any fruit of this salvation they would have no evidence to enter into the Heavenly court. These false converts are WORSE off then they were in the first place because now they think they are saved and their journey ends at a point where they never seek the Lord any further.
The Lord is not fooled by these people, if they can't fool men then how can they fool the King of Kings?
I think the discrepancy here is arising from confusion on the different aspects of salvation: justification (the actual legal declaration of not guilty towards the sinner) and regeneration and sanctification (the sinner becoming a new creation with a new heart and new desires that then matures in holiness and grows spiritual fruit...inseparable from one who has truly been declared not guilty but separate from that actual decretive moment).
Romans 4-6 expound on this:
God justifies the ungodly (4:5); those whom are justified are so purely by the righteousness of Christ (5:17-18); such a belief would lead men to believe they could sin then that grace would abound, but they would only prove they have not been justified (6:1-2); for only the fruit of sanctification ends in eternal life (6:22).
Error can come when only one side of the equation is emphasized: antinomianism waits for those who stress only faith; works righteousness for those who count works as necessary for salvation.
Error can also come when the order in which these changes occur is confused (ordo salutis). If sanctification is necessitized for salvation, then the gospel is dwarfed; if the reality of the ontological change of regeneration is left unmentioned, then the character of God and His goal in salvation is maligned.
All that to say, it would be proper to say both that people are justified by faith alone and yet will not be saved without the works of sanctification. It's the understanding how they fit together that is crucial.
Great Post learjet!!
Did Faith save Noah?? yes
Did Faith alone save Noah??
Sermon Index is making a mockery of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Continually you want to add your works to the acquiring and maintaining of your salvation. Actually it is "your salvation", as it is not the salvation of Jesus.
It is horrible exegesis of the scripture to take a random verse here and there, and then out of context, to tried to justify your works contributing to salvation.
The conform message of the Gospels - Acts - Romans, and all the Epistles is that we are saved by grace through faith not of works. And this Gospel is everlasting / eternal life - remember Jesus said "I give unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish".
How important is the question "What is the true Gospel?" - enough for the apostle Paul to write:
Galatians 1:8-9
8 But should we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again: If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which ye have received, let him be accursed!
If any man preaches any other Gospel, let them be damned to hell.
If the moderators of this forum want to ignore this thread - as they usually do with the real essential threads of the faith - so be it, but I am telling you that that is not "earnestly contending for the faith" and I believe is a symptom of being rooted not in Christ.
Some great post here!
"Does the Bible say that we are Justified by faith alone?"
Yes. BUT there is a great misunderstanding by many in the evangelical church today to what Faith is.
To many it means just a mental agreement or a one time decision we make. However it seems clear to me (as has already been pointed out) that faith is always defined as an act of obedience to what God says. Consider Hebrews chapter 11. All those who are described as having faith did something that demonstrated their faith.
This is what James is making clear when he says "faith without works is dead." He is describing a profession of faith that is not real faith.
I understand that the word faith and faithfulness are the same word in the original greek. Therefore it could be enlightning if we used the word faithfulness in place of faith.
So yes we are justified by faith alone, but real faith that can be seen.
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.
In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," James 2:20. But, he is not contradicting salvation/justification is by faith alone.
Notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith, not real faith when he said we are not justified by faith alone.
The conform message of the Gospels - Acts - Romans, and all the Epistles is that we are saved by grace through faith not of works. And this Gospel is everlasting / eternal life - remember Jesus said "I give unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish".
Um, nice try but I made clear in my first reply to this thread what James is talking about.
James (the Lord's brother) made clear what his words were, they mean what they say and say what they mean.
Again, works are the fruit of salvation, salvation is not the fruit of works.
You say you are saved? Show me your works.
This is the gospel of Jesus Christ. The barren teaching of faith alone is the bane of Westernized Christianity. "Come forward friend, say a prayer friend, you are saved" yet nothing is ever manifested in their lives that resembles change. They had a run in with the Living God and nothing is changed?
TWICE THE SONS OF THE HELL.
James 2:14-24 (in context):
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”
[b]and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
Let's see here. You have been a member of this forum for how long? A little over a day. And you are an expert on what Sermon Index believes and what the moderators do?
Bro I suggest you cool your jets and check out some of the archived threads. Also listen to some of the sermons. No one is implying you are saved by works. But a saving faith will have works that come out of a regenerated heart. Check out Eph. 2:8-10.
The old Puritains would say that that it is faith alone that saves. But saving faith s never alone. Or you are saved by Christ Jesus as unto good works. Go look at John 15 in the vine and branches. Fruit or good works flow out of a faith union with Christ.
Can't explain it any simpler than that.
By the way you might want to read the SI guide lines. They are our code of conduct on this forum. And welcome to the discussion. But please do respect the administrators. They are extending you much grace by allowing you to come and post.
Bearmaster.
Faith alone for salvation, must mean a gift from God to believe in Jesus death and resurrection for sin. Death to meet God's righteous demand through the shedding of blood, regarding the sins of many. Resurrection by Christ being raised from the dead so that those who believe in His death can walk in newness of life. To argue that faith is sufficient for one to be fully saved and not to include walking in resurrection life is rather like saying that one has only seen the blood and failed to see the resurrection. It is like saying I am a god. Scripturally, only the Father sees the blood of Christ because only the Father has demanded it. Just as only God sees the blood which the High Priest under the Law of Moses threw upon the mercy seat. If anyone else has attempted to barge their way into the Holy of Holies to witness the blood they would have been struck dead. Even the High Priest didn't know whether he would make it out alive. He was required to abide by every letter of the Law in order to make certain his coming out again.
The blood of Christ is ever before the Father in heaven. A Lamb newly slain enters into heaven and presents Himself before the Throne of God and is accepted by God whereafter is sung a new song. The Lamb newly slain is before the Father. Not before men. The blood is before the Father, not before men. Be bold and enter into heaven before the Father understand that you have a sound basis for confidence before God. But to say that you can then walk as you please before men is to show that you have not understood God's righteous requirement to walk faithfully. Salvation is more than receiving eternal life by faith. It is also walking by Grace through faith in order to please God. To say otherwise is to deny the meaning of Baptism as well as the coming kingdom of God and Christ. It is to neglect your salvation and to risk rejection of Christ when He returns. The blood is before the Father not before men. Jesus gave two keys to the apostles. Both of which attend to salvation of men. The one is the preaching of the gospel of Grace and repentance towards God who has accepted the shed blood of Christ. The other is Baptism which speaks of death in Christ. One died for all therefore all have died. It speaks of being buried with Him in death and being raised up with Him in resurrection of life so that we might walk in newness of life. If we accept the Blood and reject the walking how can we say we are yet saved.
You are saved by faith alone. Therefore make sure your works are the works of faith, as were Abraham's.
Good advice to this poster brother bearmaster. However based upon what he is saying he is no stranger to this forum. He has a history of at least monitoring this site if not having been registered here under another name.
Again just based upon what he said,
If the moderators of this forum want to ignore this thread - as they usually do with the real essential threads of the faith - so be it, but I am telling you that that is not "earnestly contending for the faith" and I believe is a symptom of being rooted not in Christ.
ummm??RE: FaithAlone wrote
"Continually you want to add your works to the acquiring and maintaining of your salvation"
Whom is adding to the scripture??
I showed the scriptures that included Faith + alone
RE:FaithAlone wrote "It is horrible exegesis of the scripture to take a random verse here and there, and then out of context, to tried to justify your works contributing to salvation."
Was Noah saved by Faith Alone??
No One is implying that we are saved by works , rather that faith without works is no faith at all!
I visted a Church When I was out in Colorado, And a Man stood up Behind me and asked for prayer? He said That Him and His fiancee needed Prayer that the Devil was making them feel Bad that she was getting a divourse.
I have seen a scary trend going on in Christianity people will get convicted over something often times smaller than this was, but they will surrpress those feelings. I have heard often times them excuse it as, Well the Devil is just trying to make me feel bad!
Does anyone else see a problem with this???
I am just going to repost my post I made in the beginning of the thread and re-emphasis that the Scriptures never tell us that we are saved by Faith Alone but I do believe the Scriptures teach we are saved by Christ alone. It is faith towards Him the possession of His Spirit, and the depending and doing the works of the Father through Him that is our salvation being worked out.
Salvation is in 3 tenses also, been saved, being saved and will be saved. It is only by the blood of Christ, His atonement and redemption that saves us. Yet when we are saved past tense, God will continue have us being saved by working through us by the Holy Spirit. And we will be saved as we continue to trust in the blood of Christ, His cross and all that was done on our behalf.
Let us not only look to Christ as a method but to the very person of Christ as our life. He justifies us by his blood but will save us from Gods wrath by His very person. And if we have His Spirit we will walk holy and in His ways.
And another statement is is unbiblical is Scripture alone. Because all scripture was given by the Holy Spirit and though we have a closed canon of writings agreed to be inspired. The Holy Spirit is still speaking to His church throughout the ages.
There are many statements that the apostle paul gives of teachings, traditions and extra teachings into the temple and other things that point to Christ that were not written in the Bible. God simply cannot be put into a box of a theological system where we explain everything.
God would have then just made the apostle paul write a dogmatic systematic theology. Sadly most of those who claim an authority on the doctrine of salvation in these terms have ignored and sidelined the Holy Spirit of God with the same system of theology. 95% of all teachers in the reformation period did not give the Holy Spirit its proper place. Cessationism of all sorts were prevalent even during the great awakening in America.
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"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." - James 2:24
"For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” - Matthew 12:37
"and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." - Romans 3:24
"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." - Romans 3:28
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," - Romans 5:1
"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" - Romans 5:9
In the above passages I believe it is clearly stated in scriptures.
1. We are justified by faith that comes along with works. If works are not present in a faith that it is not true faith. It is not the works that save someone but the true faith that is active with works. James 2:24
2. Jesus taught that we are justified by our words, with our mouth of confession of believing in His Name, he will mention us before the Father and His holy angels. Faith is therefore not silent it speaks. Matthew 12:37
3. It is also taught in scriptures that we are justified as a free gift that cannot be earned. It is 100% free and can only be accepted and acted upon. Romans 3:24
4. The works of the law will never justify any. So we must be justified apart from the law and its works. Therefore our justification looks to Christ who came as a new covenant, new promise to us from God. Romans 3:28
5. We are justified through faith. So it is not a one time belief that saves us but our justification is based upon a continual believing in Christ and His redemption until the end. We cannot ever be free from needing His grace. Romans 5:1
6. We have been justified and make righteous to God through the blood of Christ. And we will be saved from the coming wrath and judgment of God as we abide in Christ and His atonement for us which will produce an active faith daily. Romans 5:9
Our security is in Christ alone. But the scriptures do not teach faith alone. For faith apart from works is dead. Faith also needs to be active for demons have faith but do not live in righteousness. Faith also needs to have a voice we need to confess Christ before others. Faith also needs to rest and trust daily and be reckoned upon.
the Scriptures never tell us that we are saved by Faith Alone
I wouldn't necessarily agree with this statement. The classicus locus for Sole Fide would probably be in Acts 16:
"Then he brought them out and said, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' And they said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household'" (30-31).
Consider also Mark 16:16; Jn. 1:12, 3:16, 3:36, 6:40, 6:47, 11:25-26, 20:31; Rom. 1:17, 5:1-2; Hab. 2:4; etc.
It need be clear that I do not think anyone is disagreeing with the fact that we are saved by faith.
But the (Alone) is not in scripture, except for James 2 which says that alone faith is not sufficient.
I think it is clear both in Modern Christianity as well as far back as its orgins that it alludes to or atleast has been recieved by some to imply that a faithless faith is sufficient
This might prove to be a useful tool for those who are open in reading this...
CARM - http://carm.org/are-we-saved-faith-alone-or-do-we-need-works-too
Faith Alone said "Sermon Index is making a mockery of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Continually you want to add your works to the acquiring and maintaining of your salvation. Actually it is "your salvation", as it is not the salvation of Jesus.
It is horrible exegesis of the scripture to take a random verse here and there, and then out of context, to tried to justify your works contributing to salvation.
The conform message of the Gospels - Acts - Romans, and all the Epistles is that we are saved by grace through faith not of works. And this Gospel is everlasting / eternal life - remember Jesus said "I give unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish".
I would like to make known I am not new here, I hope knowing this would defuse any thoughts of coming on here to pick an argument - I have been on here many times and have studied many sermons and posts provided on this site. 2nd, I must be fully honest and agree to the above statement made by faithalone. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8-9..(That means you, me and even sermonindex)further it was said "If the moderators of this forum want to ignore this thread - as they usually do with the real essential threads of the faith - so be it, but I am telling you that that is not "earnestly contending for the faith" and I believe is a symptom of being rooted not in Christ." I too agree with this statement. This is a web forum, NOT a church and there is a need for proper accountability and biblical moderation....There seems to be many throwing out all kinds of head knowledge and from a readers perspective - lack of heart - this may not be the case, but I have seen this on this and many other forums. It is more like there is a waiting for a post and then POW - the fight is on. I am not sure, and I may be wrong - I hope I am! Are any of the moderators of this ministry elders? Do you meet with brother Greg? Do you meet with one another? Who speaks into your life? Sermonindex - are you subject to elders? A Pastor? Have you been apart of a local church longer than just a few weeks or months so brothers can walk with you and examine your heart/doctrine/life? Are you openly accountable with people other than a web based forum and email/telephone communication? This forum is viewed from around the world, do they see the love of Christ in all of this, or through arrogance and the wanting to be right, are they being led astray?
I think I have said enough I want to close with a Spurgeon quote,
"“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.” "
I believe by much study of all the New Testament, that James has it right but we take it wrong. "I will show you my faith by my works, is not saying my works give me works that are pleasing to God and increase my faith, His works in me and the works I do by His mighty power of His Faith working in me are works that show forth that I am a Christ person and the works I do, I don't do for salvation but the works I do, come from my salvation, by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, by His works that worketh in me mightily, this is how I show my faith by His works wrought in me and those works conforming me tho image of Him and that they are His working in me and confirmm that Jesus Christ is in me. I show my faith by His works of faith in me and they are the conformation and the substance seen in me to prove my Faith and Salvation by the gift of Grace given me which Is His Faith, Salvation, Gift, Grace, and anything else that pertains to my works being His works that come forth through me.
Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is (((((Christ in you, the hope of glory:)))))whom we
Preach warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, (((((striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.)))))
This truly is our Glory and perfection; "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". "Whereunto I also labour" (works) "according to His working".
For God has made Christ to be; 1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus , who of God is made unto us wisdom , and righteousness , and sanctification , and redemption :
"Made"; Strong's Greek Dictionary
1096. ginomai
Search for G1096 in KJVSL
ginomai ginomai ghin'-om-ahee
a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):--arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.
That is why the works completely show my faith. For they are His Faith and Works coming forth from me as Christ is.
If this is not what James had in mind, then he got it wrong.
In Christ by His works, His Faith, His wisdom, His righteousness/justification, sanctifying works wrought in me and my redemption and on the way to the Father's House.
Yes I will show you my faith by His works that worketh in me mightily.
In Christ: Phillip
Hi Solafide53, I have not read one post that disagrees with the fact that we are saved by faith apart from works.
You can Judge my intentions for challenging your traditions. (that is a wounderful debate tactic)
But I see many people all around me that are trusting in a faithless faith believing that they are saved when they show know fruit of it.
I have had people several times walk up to me on Job sights not even knowing me, just hearing someone else say that I was a some what seriuose Christian. With me not looking down on them or Saying a word to them. I have had them come cussing to me, telling me that they drink that they party and that they do other types of sins, But that they are Saved because they know that they are saved because they have faith in Jesus and I need not Judge them.
RE:proudpapa wrote
I visted a Church When I was out in Colorado, And a Man stood up Behind me and asked for prayer? He said That Him and His fiancee needed Prayer that the Devil was making them feel Bad that she was getting a divourse.
I have seen a scary trend going on in Christianity people will get convicted over something often times smaller than this was, but they will surrpress those feelings. I have heard often times them excuse it as, Well the Devil is just trying to make me feel bad!
Does anyone else see a problem with this???
Do you meet with brother Greg? Do you meet with one another? Who speaks into your life? Sermonindex - are you subject to elders? A Pastor? Have you been apart of a local church longer than just a few weeks or months so brothers can walk with you and examine your heart/doctrine/life? Are you openly accountable with people other than a web based forum and email/telephone communication? This forum is viewed from around the world, do they see the love of Christ in all of this, or through arrogance and the wanting to be right, are they being led astray?
solafide53 you have asked a number of questions which no one but the Moderators of this site can really answer. Could I ask you a question? By what authority do you ask these questions? If you have such authority wouldn't it go better for you to give yourself a real name and then show yourself to be under an eldership and thereby subject to authority. At least that way you might be received as one having authority to ask such questions.
I would like to make known I am not new here, I hope knowing this would defuse any thoughts of coming on here to pick an argument - I have been on here many times and have studied many sermons and posts provided on this site. 2nd, I must be fully honest and agree to the above statement made by faithalone
Is it not possible that you and faithalone are one and the same person? Or at least acting in concert? Is that really being completely honest?
No one should be afraid to share what they really believe openly. A brief look at the archives bears witness to the fact that many people have done just that very thing throughout the time SI has been a visible ministry. I would simply ask you to consider the possibility that the moderators have shown genuine grace in allowing posts to remain which have clearly been contrary to something which has been shared directly by one or other of them. Personally I have been impressed by the even handed way this site is moderated. And I can assure you that I have some very strong and clear views of things as well. But the truth wont go away. It is always going to be at the front of peoples minds when they share. May you too be blessed with your gifting shared and tested.
By this Faith alone it is that I am saved:
That I have accepted Jesus Chirst is the perfect unblemished Lamb of God, God begotten of God, whose blood shed on the cross has washed away all my sins - past, present, and future.
Because of this faith (Believing God) that I hold, I have received the indwelling Holy Spirit, My Helper, Whom works in me daily to transform my very nature, by which I may eventually naturally love God with all my heart, might, strength, and soul, and to love others as much as I love myself, and by my transformed nature do the good that God created his children to do toward one another.
My goal is not to be sinless in my life, nor is it to practice sin, but to love and forgive those who sin against me, and hope they extend the same courtesy to me. And I am certain when I confess my sins to God, He is faithful to forgive them, and I know He will cleanse me of all unrighteousness, that is His work in me.
This is my Faith. That I believe Him: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Edit: Even though I am saved by my act of Faith in God, i.e. by Believing and accepting the Good News of Jesus Christ. I should have added that Ultimately, I have been saved by God's Faith by which He drew me to Him.
Amrkelly,
So there is no confusion, I am not affiliated with the faithalone poster. I created this account to respond to this thread as it brought much attention and concern.
I have been blessed by many sermons on this website and have spent much time reading the conversations on this forum. It is with good reason I do not provide my real name to this community. As for my standing, I am thankful to be surrounded by brothers in Christ and fellow elders of my local church who look out for one another. I am accountable to what I preach, how I counsel and even to posting on this subject here. Because of this and my experience in ministry I asked those questions...I trust this reason would be satisfactory.
I understand your motives for the reply and thank you for the concern, in all fairness the question(s) were asked to sermonindex and the moderators. I feel they were fair questions seeing the context of many teachings going out and an overtone of a para church organization.
God bless your walk and labors in Christ.
So there is no confusion, I am not affiliated with the faithalone poster. I created this account to respond to this thread as it brought much attention and concern
solafide53 thank you for your reply. I apologise for inferring or suggesting a connection which was not there. I do understand that it is not possible for some brethren to display themselves by name as well.
I also understand the difference between local church accountability and a so-called para church organisations. I prefer to believe in a greater body of reality than simply the local church, which though it is a reality of little flocks, many saints do not have the benefit of a local church for whatever reason. These and all of us if we choose can benefit from knowing the wider body of Christ as well. Of course this is in spirit what you have expressed. A concern for believers.
It would be something to know why you understood that what was shared by the moderator, made you think that faith. and works by faith. didn't equal saved by faith. After all salvation is broader in its effect and influence than simply receiving the gift of life when we first believed in Christ. Apart from a little struggle most people believe in Christ as a result of God drawing them to that position. Without which we could none of us believe anything. You are an elder and a minister so I take it that you yourself must have a clear understanding of the doctrines of grace. What do you teach the flock of Christ regarding the extent and meaning of a full salvation?
How would you restrain a young believer who wants to party and thereby puts themselves in harms way as well as failing to see the power of sin in their fleshy members? A law which works, as does the law of gravity. If you drop it. It falls to the ground. Doesn't the law of sin and death also work with the same regularity? If salvation simply means believing in that which God has done through Christ and has little to do with walking by faith as well, can that really be the fullness of salvation?
Your concern for becoming solafide53 is expressed in crystal clear terms. It must therefore be purposeful to ask you these questions for the sake of an understanding.
Question by proudpapa on 2012/6/16 11:07:38
"Does the Bible say that we are Justified by faith alone??"
Answer: from the Bible...God's Word...,is...,YES!YES!YES!
"Now to him who works,the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works...Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all...And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it will be imputed, if we believe on him that raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, Who was delivered for our offenses, and raised again for our justification.” (Rom. 4:4-6,16,22-25)
"But God commendeth his love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." (Rom. 5:8-10)
"And not as through one man having sinned is the gift; for on the one hand the judgment from one offense resulted in condemnation, on the other hand the gracious gift from many offences resulted in justification. For if by the offense of the one man death reigned through the one, much more the ones receiving the abundance of the grace and of the free gift of the righteousness in life will reign through the One,Jesus Christ. So,consequently, as through one offense judgment came to all people resulting in condemnation, so also the gift came through One righteous deed to all people resulting in justification of life. For even as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One , the many will be constituted righteous." (Rom. 5:16-19)
“To whom God imputeth righteousness without works, that is, whom God regards and treats as righteous, although he is not in himself righteous. The meaning of this clause cannot be mistaken. ‘To impute sin,’ is to lay sin to the charge of any one, and to treat him accordingly, as is universally admitted; so ‘to impute righteousness,’ is to set righteousness to one’s account, and to treat him accordingly. This righteousness does not, of course, belong antecedently [i.e., going before in time] to those to whom it is imputed, for they are ungodly, and destitute of works. Here then is an imputation to men of what does not belong to them, and to which they have in themselves no claim. To impute righteousness is the apostle’s definition of the term to justify. It is not making men inherently righteous, or morally pure, but it is regarding and treating them as just. This is done, not on the ground of personal character or works, but on the ground of the righteousness of Christ. To reject the imputed righteousness of Christ in favor of an infused righteousness inherent in man, as Romanism does, is an explicit rejection of the gospel." - Charles Hodge
"So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For in this is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, "Now the just one by faith shall be living." (Rom. 1:15-17)
May the Holy Spirit enlighten the eyes of our understanding that we might see the Truth of God's one and only Gospel of Grace. May we believe His Gospel and His Truth that we are justified in His sight solely by faith in Him and the Gospel He has revealed and,
"Being, then, justified by faith, we may be having peace toward God, through our Lord, Jesus Christ,through Whom we have the access also, by faith, into this grace in which we stand, and we boast in the hope of the glory of God! (Rom. 5:1,2)
JUSTIFICATION, n.
The act of justifying; a showing to be just or conformable to law, rectitude or propriety; vindication; defense...In theology, remission of sin and absolution from guilt and punishment; or an act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner and accepts him as righteous, on account of the atonement of Christ. (Websters Dictionary,1828 edition)
Amen to every Scripture which tells us with a certainty that we are Justified before God by faith and that not of our own doing. Amen.
The problem is however, most believers still think that Justification is equal to "being saved. Or put another way, most believers still believe that being Justified before God is equal to being fully saved. Salvation is broader in its effect and benefit than our being Justified by faith by believing God concerning the good news that Christ died for sin.
The consequence of not knowing that salvation is a greater working of God than a sinner believing in Christ crucified for sin has two very distinct out workings.
Historically long before today's liberalism many believers were taught and therefore believed that they needed to keep themselves by keeping the law of Moses. Or at least the decalogue or ten commandments. Believers would not only beat themselves up because they simply found it impossible to keep the ten commandments easily or at all in some cases, but others who appeared to manage it, would beat them up anyway. Trying to keep the commandments resulted in a form of godliness but a denying the power of God.
Now we have another extreme and we say "once saved always saved". The result of this teaching has been to slowly erode away any semblance of godliness in the lives of many who profess Christ. This saying has been introduced sincerely by some but it has also been a way of causing believers to go after men who are prepared to teach it. It gives believers a sense of being "free" but in the end it does nothing to keep them for the day of the Lord.
I see another thing being taught which is a way of addressing these two extremes between legalism and liberalism. This is "examine yourself" because if you were born again of the Spirit of God then you would without doubt bear fruits of repentance. This new way ends with the words "you shall know them by their fruit". So no real fruit. No real belief. Therefore no real salvation. No real life. No real anything just a wretched unbelieving sinner. Ergo repent and be saved.
The truth however is that we need to examine ourselves only with regards to whether we really do have Christ. If your own spirit cries to the Father you cannot have anything but the life of the Son. The rest is not an examination or a testing, but a judging oneself to see what fruit we do in fact bear.. If you steal, then you are a thief. If you lie, then you are a liar. Etc. Should a believer who tells a lie or steals a loaf of bread, really take the view that they are somehow thereby excluded from the imputed Justification which they first received when they believed, and which resulted in new life? Are we born and unborn and born and unborn all day long.
There are of course other answers to these simplistic questions that might be inferred by them. This would be to miss the reality of what the Scriptures actually teaches about the meaning of salvation. Scripturally salvation is not just believing in Christ, which though it does produce an outcome, "Whosoever believes in His name shall be saved", but it also "whosoever loses his life for My sake shall find it". What is the life lost? What is the life which is found? Salvation is both believing and walking. It is believing by faith unto a gift of life and imputed righteousness before God; even Christ our righteousness before God. It is also taking up our cross, a loosing of your own life, in order that having lost your own life you might find it in the kingdom to come. The "saved" which comes by believing, is in the sight of God, and is an everlasting salvation. Yet if we do not also walk by the cross we may in the end not be found where Christ Himself will be found in the future. In the Kingdom Come and the New City. The faith which results in new life is a commandment. Whereas the life gained which results from losing it, by the cross is a whosoever.
This business of salvation is seen and understood precisely by seeing and understanding Christ Himself, his whole walk from Baptism unto the Cross. It isnt a mix and match theology. It is Christ Himself.
Edited for Spelling and Grammar.
The Grace does the saving through the faith to believe it and none of it is of ourselves, it is the gift of God to redeem His lost creation, "new creatures in Christ".
We believe through the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ from God the Father. Resulting in life and light unto truth through the Faith of Jesus Christ.
Adam believed satan through Eve of the lie which deceived her. Resulting in death and darkness from Adam's faith.
In Christ: Phillip
amrkelly said,
"The problem is however, most believers still think that Justification is equal to "being saved. Or put another way, most believers still believe that being Justified before God is equal to being fully saved."
This is not a problem but rather a Gospel Truth.
If you or any think that Justification is not equal to "being saved", or that being Justified before God is not equal to being fully saved, you are the one with the problem.
Have you not read the Scripture? This Gospel Truth is explicitly stated and revealed by His inspired Word.
Have you not been taught of God?
Oh what cause for rejoicing is this marvellous work of God!
"This is the LORD's doing; it is marvelous in our eyes." (Psalm 118:23)
In my last post the Word of God spoke to this. Have you not understood?
Listen again! Meditate upon the Word of God in those verses in my last post. And now upon the following;
Romans 8:30 "But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."
them he also justified — brought into the definite state of reconciliation already so fully described.
and whom he justified, them he also glorified — brought to final glory (Rom. 8:17, Rom. 8:18). Noble climax, and so rhythmically expressed! And all this is viewed as past; because, starting from the past decree of “predestination to be conformed to the image of God’s Son” of which the other steps are but the successive unfoldings - all is beheld as one entire, eternally completed salvation. - JFB
"Whom he called those he also justified. All that are effectually called are justified, absolved from guilt, and accepted as righteous through Jesus Christ. They are recti in curia - right in court; no sin that ever they have been guilty of shall come against them, to condemn them. The book is crossed, the bond cancelled, the judgment vacated, the attainder reversed; and they are no longer dealt with as criminals, but owned and loved as friends and favourites. Blessed is the man whose iniquity is thus forgiven. None are thus justified but those that are effectually called." - Matthew Henry
Re: savannah wrote Listen again! Meditate upon the Word of God in those verses in my last post. And now upon the following;
/Romans 8:30 "But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."/
Romans ch 8 v 29 For whom he did (foreknow), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren
predestination follows after foreknowledge
To any and all who deny that salvation is by grace alone,through faith alone,in Christ alone, meditate once more upon His Word;
"Therefore, let it be known to you, men, brothers, that through this One the forgiveness of sins is preached to you, and everyone believing in this One is justified from all things which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses." Acts 13:38,39
And take heed to the warning which follows;
"Beware, therefore, lest what is said in the Prophets should come upon you,"Behold, you despisers," "and marvel," "and perish, because I work a work in your days which you shall by no means believe, even if someone shall be describing it to you in detail.'" Acts 13:40,41
A literal rendering as to the order would be:
“And from all the things from which ye were not able to be justified in this one every one who believes is justified.”
We have here the germ of all that is most characteristic in Paul’s teaching. It is the argument of the Epistle to Galatians and Romans in a sentence. The failure of the Mosaic law to bring the kind of righteousness that God demands is stated. This is made possible in and by Christ alone. Paul’s favourite words occur here, pisteuō, believe, with which pistis, faith, is allied, and dikaioō, justified, to set right with God on the basis of faith.
These are key words (pisteuō and dikaioō) in Paul’s theology and call for prolonged and careful study if one is to grasp the Pauline teaching. Dikaioō primarily means to make righteous, to declare righteous like axioō, to deem worthy (axios). But in the end Paul holds that real righteousness will come (Romans 6-8) to those whom God treats as righteous (Romans 3-5) though both Gentile and Jew fall short without Christ (Romans 1-3). This is the doctrine of grace that will prove a stumbling block to the Jews with their ceremonial works and foolishness to the Greeks with their abstract philosophical ethics (1 Cor. 1:23-25). - RWP
Salvation is not many things. It is Christ Himself. Everything which Jesus the Saviour of God undertook on our behalf from His birth, by which a body is prepared for Him, baptism, obedience unto death, resurrection from the dead, ascending into heaven to intercede and His coming again....all this is Salvation. It must be because Jesus Himself is Salvation. And all these things are of Him (Christ Jesus). No one else can make the claim. No other Name is given by which men shall be saved.
In the Scriptures there are two peculiar people which demonstrate the need to give this matter more thought. The first are they that were told to enter into the kingdom, and this because they had "done all these things unto Me". They themselves were unaware they had even served the Lord. Yet they entered into the kingdom. (Parable of the Sheep and the Goats). The second type of person is the one who knew they were serving the Lord because it is said of them that they cast out demons, etc. It isn't possible to cast out Satan by Satan. This very claim was the finality for Christ regarding the Pharisees. Jesus said it wasn't possible to cast out Satan by Satan. Therefore they that are spoken of here must have done so by the power of God. Yet they were denied access into the kingdom.
These who were given entry were really given entry. And those who were denied entry were really denied entry. To be born again and justified by faith and yet to be denied entry into the kingdom must be a difficult thing to understand. Yet it cannot be full salvation. To be other than with Christ in the kingdom for 1000 years cannot mean to be "fully saved". Where the Saviour is there is Salvation. Where the King is there is the Kingdom. To not be in the Kingdom with Christ during that time is a not being saved at that time. Justification makes reference to God the Father and has to do with eternity as well as a new life now. We should remember that the judgment of the White Throne is a time when all the heavens and the earth have fled away from the presence of the Lord. It is the judgement of the books and the book. The books of works and the Book of Life. We need wisdom. This latter judgement is final. It is to the lake of fire, whosoever is not written in the book of life.
If anyone thinks that it is a trivial thing to spend 1000 years away from the presence of the Lord, I assume they have not in fact either understood the full nature of Salvation or that they have not yet understood the Kingdom to Come. Salvation is Christ Himself. If we really intend that we should be fully saved then we must not only believe but we must walk as well. This is the Gospel because it is Christ Himself Who showed us how we need to be if we want to be with Him in the Kingdom. Believe and walk. All by faith through grace.
Paul the apostle did not argue that if people did not have a set of doctrines on salvation then they were not right. He argued whether or not they had the very person of Christ. This is what the NT declares to us.
Do you have Christ?
True Greg for Paul declares in Romans 8:9
"...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Paul the apostle did not argue that if people did not have a set of doctrines on salvation then they were not right. He argued whether or not they had the very person of Christ. This is what the NT declares to us.Do you have Christ?
It must be self evident to one who is born again that if one does not have Christ then that one cannot be of Christ. It may also be wise to encourage all who take the name of Christ to examine themselves as to whether they do in fact have Christ. And this because of many teachings which have gone before us and have led many saints into a sinful attitude regarding their conduct as believers which in some cases has led to extraordinary foolishness and even blasphemy. That is to say denying God in the end. Paul was used by God to establish most of the new testament teachings which have to do with a believers conduct after they have believed. There is so much confusion about what salvation means that many are simply neglecting their salvation.
I am completely convinced that eternal life once given cannot be taken back. So that it would be possible to say likewise that to know that you have Christ Himself makes for an eternal salvation. I also see that in saying this some will stumble even as many have when this has been taught before. Nee was one of the most clearest examples of this understanding that eternal life means eternal life. And it must be for this reason that he was so concerned that a full and sincere presentation of the meaning of Salvation is given and received. Otherwise we today will simply fall into the same snare of the flesh which follows when saints are not retrained by sound doctrine as well as the faithful service of God's ministers of His Word. Given that so many have a calling of God to teach and have taught this precious truth that eternal life really does mean eternal life, yet have singularly failed to keep the flock, it cannot be wise to be fully persuaded ones self and then to neglect to share with others.
The very first post I made on SI had to do with eternal salvation. One brother posted in reply "Can you say Rob Bell". This is the problem! Teach the whole truth any it is seen as heresy. Teach half the truth and it is heresy. If any one has the Spirit of Christ in him bearing witness to God the Father, then they are God's eternal possession according to the shed blood of Christ. Yet according to Scripture this is not yet the full meaning of Salvation. Just as Christ's own walk, which being sinless, would not have counted for anything if He had not also gone to the Cross and died for sin.
There is an undoubted weakness today. Liberty once understood and yet not fully explained and testified too by example and sound teaching, will tend to the fleshy inclinations of the old man. Then some will say "ah he wasn't really saved at all". Thus are many saints cast aside and trampled on. Christ will not over look these things when He comes.
Edited for Spelling
Greg Gordon asks the question,
"Do you have Christ?"
I answer, Yes,I do!
My Beloved is mine, and I am His.
I am my Beloved's, and His desire is toward me.
Song of Solomon 2:16;7:10
Greg Gordon writes,
"Paul the apostle did not argue that if people did not have a set of doctrines on salvation then they were not right. He argued whether or not they had the very person of Christ. This is what the NT declares to us."
Paul the apostle writes to the called in Rome,
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17
Paul the apostle writes to Timothy,
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine... Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. Take heed to thyself and to thy doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou wilt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 1 Tim. 1:3;4:13,16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim. 3;16
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine. For the time will come, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts will they multiply to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they will turn away their ears from the truth, and will be turned to fables. 2 Tim. 4:1-4
Paul the apostle to Titus,
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. For there are many disorderly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision...But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine...In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine showing incorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say concerning you. Titus 1:9,10;2:1,7,8
Re: This thread
But that(above)wasn't what the OP asked in this thread.
The OP asked the question,
"Does the Bible say that we are Justified by faith alone??"
I answered, Yes! Yes! Yes!
And not only are we Justified by faith alone,but we are also kept by that same power[God]of Justifying faith(It is God who justifies. Rom. 8:33)to the Glory of God alone[Soli Deo Gloria].
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto
salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again to a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you. 1 Peter 1:3,4
"Paul the apostle did not argue that if people did not have a set of doctrines on salvation then they were not right. He argued whether or not they had the very person of Christ. This is what the NT declares to us."Paul the apostle writes to the called in Rome,
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17
Paul the apostle writes to Timothy,
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine... Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. Take heed to thyself and to thy doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou wilt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 1 Tim. 1:3;4:13,16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim. 3;16
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine. For the time will come, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts will they multiply to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they will turn away their ears from the truth, and will be turned to fables. 2 Tim. 4:1-4
Paul the apostle to Titus,
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. For there are many disorderly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision...But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine...In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine showing incorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say concerning you. Titus 1:9,10;2:1,7,8
Brother, I would challenge you to consider that almost all those occurrences of "sound doctrine" are not a set of teachings on the character of God or doctrines of salvation but rather on a way of living. Doctrine paul uses as a set of teachings that are of a way of life not belief. Doctrine that accords to godliness are teachings about righteousness that accompany those that "believe" in Christ.
Greg Gordon asks the question,"Do you have Christ?"
I answer, Yes,I do!
My Beloved is mine, and I am His.
I am my Beloved's, and His desire is toward me.
Song of Solomon 2:16;7:10
Brother, it does not matter what doctrines we believe that men espouse from the scriptures. If we have Christ from God's point of view we are His and in His kingdom. Therefore that is what God desires not for us to believe a certain set of teachings on how salvation works etc. Salvation in the early church was something you had and if you had it, it was evidenable by your actions.
Greg Gordan wrote:
"Brother, it does not matter what doctrines we believe that men espouse from the scriptures. If we have Christ from God's point of view we are His and in His kingdom. Therefore that is what God desires not for us to believe a certain set of teachings on how salvation works etc. Salvation in the early church was something you had and if you had it, it was evidenable by your actions."
Very True Greg. Sometimes the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ eludes us. The Mosaic Law was a sysyphean task that none could keep except Jesus - God in the flesh. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior Who redeemed us through His blood, the perfect Paschal Lamb of God. Jesus the sin bearer, who takes away all our sins. Jesus the Door through whom we return from exile to enter Fellowship with God.
Greg,
You wrote,
"Brother, it does not matter what doctrines we believe that men espouse from the scriptures. If we have Christ from God's point of view we are His and in His kingdom. Therefore that is what God desires not for us to believe a certain set of teachings on how salvation works etc. Salvation in the early church was something you had and if you had it, it was evidenable by your actions."
Thank you for affirming not only Sola Fide(Justification by Faith Alone),but Sola Cristos(Christ Alone). For indeed this is the crux of it all. For without Faith Alone in Christ Alone you'd have no Gospel of Grace Alone(Sola Gratia). And consequently it would not be to the Glory of God Alone(Soli Deo Gloria). So,to avoid the damnable heresy of erring not knowing the Scriptue,and preaching another gospel which is no gospel at all(Gal. 1:6-9),let us keep to Scripture Alone(Sola Scriptura),lest we miss the very Gospel of God and are among them who have fallen from grace(Gal. 5:4).
So let us contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints(Jude 1:3). For if these Gospel Truths(Five Solas)be strayed from we can only find ourselves looking to be Justified by Faith + Works.
"If error be harmless then truth is useless" (CHS).
I say, we can only find ourselves looking to be Justified by Faith + Works if these Gospel Truths(Five Solas)be strayed from,for lo and behold there are two threads which have cropped up on the S.I. forum for proof of this. Such is no less than returning to Rome's Romanism of Catholicism. Read their(Roman Catholicism)conclusions from the Council of Trent - 1563.
“If any one saith that God always remits the whole punishment together with the guilt, and that the satisfaction of penitents is no other than the faith whereby they apprehend that Christ has satisfied for them: let him be anathema.”
"If anyone saith that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA."
Beware lest you also be living in Rome rather than by Faith Alone in Christ Alone to the Glory of God Alone.
May we return to God's Gospel of Grace Alone revealed in the Scripture Alone.
In contrast to Rome's other gospel which is no gospel at all, Scripture declares,
"So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For in this is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, "Now the just one by faith shall be living." Rom. 1:15-17
"Being, then, justified by faith, we may be having peace toward God, through our Lord, Jesus Christ,through Whom we have the access also, by faith, into this grace in which we stand, and we boast in the hope of the glory of God! (Rom. 5:1,2)
"But God commendeth his love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. " Rom. 5:8-10)
"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works...Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all...And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;But for us also, to whom it will be imputed, if we believe on him that raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,Who was delivered for our offenses, and raised again for our justification. ” (Rom. 4:4-6,16,22-25)
"The Apostles say, that the justification OF FAITH ONLY is sufficient, so that if any one ONLY BELIEVES, he may be justified, even though he does not perform any works." - Origen
"They are justified freely, who, without working or rendering any thing in turn, are justified BY FAITH ONLY as the gift of God." - Ambrose
"How can the Jews suppose that they are justified by the works of the law, seeing they have the justification of Abraham set before them, who was justified, not by the works of the law, but BY FAITH ONLY. The law, therefore, is not necessary, when the sinner is justified before God by FAITH ONLY. God has decreed that he who believes in Christ, should be saved without works, receiving the remission of sins freely BY FAITH ONLY. We are therefore justified by faith only, which means that it is by the merits of Christ alone, apprehended by faith." - Ambrose
For further clarification;
Justification is instantaneous.
God declares the believing sinner righteous in a moment of time.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life"(John 5:24;Luke 18:14;Rom. 5:1).
Justification is not a process, nor is it piecemeal. It takes place only once, then it is complete.
There is no such thing as being more and more justified. There are no degrees of acceptance with God.
To be justified is to be wholly justified.
A man is either fully justified, or he is not justified at all.
On the other hand;
Sanctification is a continuous process.
The Christian grows in holiness and more and more conforms to the character of Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit applies God’s word to his heart. The old sin nature is progressively subdued, but never entirely abolished in this life.
Sanctification is progressive, imperfect, and not completed until death.
The following quote may very well be an offence to those opposed to the Gospel of God and His Grace, who are enemies of the cross,
"There are two things which arise … the one is how often a believer may miscarry — how low he may fall and yet have true grace. The other is how far a hypocrite may go in the way to heaven — how high he may attain and yet have no grace. The saint may be cast down very near to hell and yet shall never come there, and the hypocrite may be lifted up very near to heaven and yet never come there. For the saint at worst is really a believer and the hypocrite at best is really a sinner." - Matthew Mead
And finally,
"To believe God is not a little thing; it is the index of a heart reconciled to God, and the token of true spirituality of mind; it is the essence of true worship, and the root of sincere obedience. He who believes his God in spite of his sins, does him more honor than cherubim and seraphim in their continual adoration. A little thing faith! How is it then that unbelief is so great a crime that it is marked out for reprobation as the one damning evil which shuts men out of heaven? Whatever else you put in the second place, give faith the lead; it is not a vain thing, for it is your life." - C.H.S.
I read the following response from the moderator in regards to the initial thread question of "Are we justified by faith alone?":
"Our security is in Christ alone. But the scriptures do not teach faith alone. For faith apart from works is dead. Faith also needs to be active for demons have faith but do not live in righteousness. Faith also needs to have a voice we need to confess Christ before others. Faith also needs to rest and trust daily and be reckoned upon." (quote from sermonindex)
While his answer may seem correct, it is in fact 100% wrong and misleading. This is the false gospel spoken of explicitly in Galatians, and the other epistles.
According to his above logic our security is NOT in Christ alone, it would have to lie in our ability to perform "works" or "be reckoned upon".
I can not believe that he actually said the words, "But the scriptures do not teach faith alone."
And I can not believe that he said those words, and the vast majority of people just sing ho-hum and keep skipping along.
salvation by faith alone - THAT IS THE VERY HEART AND ESSENCE OF THE ENTIRE BIBLE.
As well sermonindex said, "Faith also needs to be active for demons have faith but do not live in righteousness." Demons do not have faith in Jesus Christ's birth, death, and resurrection! James chapter 2 is not saying that demons believe in Christ! It says that they believe there is one God:
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.
If sermonindex believes these things then:
a) salvational is conditional, depending on what you do or do not do
b) no one, including himself, can know they will be saved (or even are saved)
c) salvation is part Jesus' work and part your actions
d) what joy can we have in our salvation, if we can lose it?
e) you have to esteem yourself rather highly - because your "not living in sin" (when in actuality we "are sin" - as we are still in the flesh)
You have Christ when you believe in him as your Savior. What does it mean when he says "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish"?
Alot of y'all here on this message forum are like the pharisee who consider yourselves better than the contrite sinner.....and you do not see it! That's why you say things like real salvation leads to actions.
These actions are:
a) not always manifested as you might think
b) are to vastly differing degrees by the person
* If this website "Sermon Index" believes the following, "But the scriptures do not teach faith alone." then that statement should headline your statement of faith and I would go one step further and argue that it should be in the title banner atop the sermonindex.net logo
And this thread has been inactive after only 5 pages? What? This issue is the crux of the entire Gospel. If this is wrong, if this foundation is established on the Rock then everyone labors in vain!
I read sermonindex's comments on this thread. Are there not other moderators on this website? So I assume you all agree with his statements?
Verdict: Salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works. Salvation is eternal life, also called everlasting life. When you become born again, when Christ saves you, he will keep you. Do not listen to blatant "works salvationists" and surely do not listen to "veiled works salvation advocates".
The simplicity of the Gospel. The simplicity of the child like faith in Jesus which leads to mighty exploits by his people (which are known by Christ alone).
Proponents of "salvation is not by faith alone" are going to be in grave trouble one day with the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.
Written in tears.
What scripture verse or verses include both the word (faith) and the word (alone) in them ??
edit: PS: I will give a hint, it is in the epistle that was called the epistle of straw by the man whom coined the phrase Sola Fida
edit, for clarity
Justification is the state of being considered just or righteous in God's eyes. Another way of asking the question would be, by what mechanism is a person made just or righteous in the sight of God? I personally think that it is important that we understand the full context of Paul's teachings about faith and works throughout the new testament in order to answer this question.
To a Jew, the keeping of the law was the means by which righteousness before God was obtained. This is what Paul speaks against when he says that we are saved by grace through faith and that it is not of works. This is the context of Paul's teaching in Romans 3:20-28. Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
So our righteousness, our standing of just in the sight of God, comes not through us doing the works of the law so as to earn God's favor, but rather through our trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to make us righteous in the sight of God. In this sense, as contrasted to a righteousness that might come by the law, justification is not by works but rather by faith.
Paul reiterated this in Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
But notice the context of the statement. Man is not justified by the works of the law. It is a very specific statement, aimed at a very specific people who had a very specific error in their thinking.
However, when we stand before God, it will be those who have held their confidence fast to the end that will be just before God. We must not only begin the race, but we must run it, and finish it.
James taught this. Jas 2:20-26
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
(22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
(23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
(24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
(25) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
(26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Notice the statement, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Now James is not talking about doing the works of the law in order to earn righteousness or justification. He is talking about the reality of the faith that believes unto righteousness and justification.
Look at these verses.
Heb 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Rom 11:21-23
(21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
(22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
(23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
There is a continuing steadfast unto the end, there is a walk in which we do not cast away our faith, there is an endurance that is necessary. And in this walk, our faith will be evidenced by the corresponding works of faith.
There is also a labor that is necessary in order to enter into and maintain our walk of faith. Does not the writer of Hebrews tell us that we must labor to enter into that rest?
So I think it is important, if we are going to discuss works, that we look at what is being said in its full context and compare it with other scripture.
To proudpapa, No, there is not a verse that simply says we are justified by faith alone. However there is ample scripture that says we are justified by faith and not by works of the law. The context is very important I think.
You can NEVER earn justification. However there are works of faith and labor that will be necessary to maintain our faith steadfast to the end. In this sense, faith alone is not sufficient to bring us to the throne of God just in His sight.
twayneb, excellant post, very well articulated,
titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
paul was writing to titus who was not a jew
paul comfirms that it was not by good deeds ,or righteous acts that we are saved or justafied ,,
by his grace are we justafied we are saved by grace through faith alone ,and not by anything else
of corse grace that produces true faith will have works of righeousness ,,but it is not that , that will satisfie gods righteousness , resulting in justafication
but being justfied freely by his grace ,through the redemtion that is in jesus christ paul said
it is not of our selfs it is the gift of god that justafies and sprouts salvation
we are dreaming if we think even our righeous acts after salvation will make god justafie us
abrhame believed god and it was acounted to him for righeouness
not wile he was circimsiced but wile he was uncircumsised
he was justafied by grace through faith ,before any righeous acts were done
tho they followed as evedence of faith and grace
it all of god ,and not a bit us
all the glory is gods ,in regards to his mercful justafication
would a man rob god
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
paul was writing to titus who was not a jew
paul comfirms that it was not by good deeds ,or righteous acts that we are saved or justafied ,,
Yes, Titus was a Gentile. But look closely as the wording Paul uses. He says, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done." Paul says, "Titus, your righteousness cannot, will not be established by you doing good works and holding them up before God, hoping He will now consider you righteous." Though Paul is not specifically talking about the OT law in this case, he is talking about the exact same mindset and principle.
Our righteousness can NEVER be established through good works. It can only come through the blood of Jesus.
I do not believe the works spoken of my James are works that we do in order to earn righteousness. However, we fool ourselves if we think that our faith is genuine and will endure to the end if we have no corresponding works that demonstrate the reality of that faith. We also fool ourselves if we think that enduring to the end and not casting aside our faith is possible without these works.
In the end, it is not as if God will look at us and say, "Wow Gary, you have done these works...and so I will now consider you righteous and just in my sight." This would then be earning righteousness by works would it not? Rather it will be as through God says, "Gary, you have persevered. You accepted my sacrifice for your sins and are righteous in my sight. And through your walk with me, you labored to enter into my rest. Your works showed the reality of your faith, and your labor has not been in vain. You have persevered unto the end. Well done good and faithful servant. You were faithful over these things, now enter into my joy."
If you look at what I have posted in other threads you will see that I would never imply that a man can earn righteousness or justification. But we must either throw the book of James out of our Bibles or deal with the statement, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." I believe that I understand the balance. But I am not foolish enough to say that I have it in total and that I cannot be instructed further. I guess it is the understanding I have and I believe it consistent with the scriptures that show that we are not assured a right standing before God in final judgment because of a one time faith in what Jesus did, but rather because we first believed and then have held our confidence fast until the end.
I am also not talking about returning to works of the law in order to maintain right standing with God. Paul dealt with this very harshly throughout the book of Galatians. I am talking about our works and labors that are the outflow of the reality of our faith and that cause us to enter into the rest described in Hebrews.
James 2:17-20 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Then it must also be that works without faith are dead works. So then what works of faith do we depend upon? If works without faith are dead, it must depend upon faith. This is the whole of the "of," the not understanding that we must have faith for the works to be justified before God. Who is our justification?
There is only one faith that work the works of God.
Colossians 1:17-23 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
This, "continue in the Faith grounded and settled" is not my faith, but "The Faith". What is "The Faith"? Strong's Greek Dictionary
4102. pistis
Search for G4102 in KJVSL
pistiV pistis pis'-tis
from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
It is Jesus Christ Himself, The Faith of the Son of God, do we see how important "The Faith Christ" is, not "in" Christ but "of Christ". Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Who's working? Working where? By His working, by His Faith in me which works the works of Faith, that is alone Salvation which has been made unto us; 1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
He is our Glory, His Faith, His Works, my salvation and my works which He worketh in me mightily, by His Faith and His Faith alone.
In Christ: Phillip
No one will be ever put right with God by following the law, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, nor anyone will be ever justified by our acts of righteousness, for they are as filthy as rags.
We are put right with God by his mercy and grace alone through our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
While, it is written that faith without works is dead, it doesn't mean that our good deeds merit salvation, nor that they contribute even an iota in our justification before God.
But, that in the natural course of its operation, our faith is shown or authenticated by our actions and character.
That a genuine christian faith will bear good deeds and pure intentions. Actual deeds, like giving monetary or material help to our brothers and sisters.
Because a genuine christian faith is associated with regeneration and sanctification, unto good works for the glory of God.
When there is faith, there are good works and there is newness of life, for God is Holy. When there is faith, one is not easily moved, for our God is mighty.
Otherwise, where really is our faith?
Thanks again, Brother Travis.
