Until the Day! Luke 17

Hi All!
UNTIL THE DAY!
The two specific examples Jesus gave about his coming show that God will NOT pour out his wrath on his people but will take us out just PRIOR to this Judgement.
It also highlights in both examples that things are very normal concerning what is going on the earth and its people.
In the Noah example -Eating-Drinking-Marrying and in the Lot example Eating-Drinking-Buying-Selling-Building.As a side note sin is still going on as we see no marrying in Sodom due to homosexuality being widespread.

Jesus shows that just prior to this Judgement everything is normal-no nuclear wars-no famine (their is food)the economy is functioning as normal(buying and selling)socially people are marrying and to a certain degree we can see that currency is being spent on buildings which is always a positive sign in the modern economy.
1-The return of Jesus described by himself here could not be directly after "The Great Tribulation" because of the normality of life highlighted OR the "Great Tribulation" is not that big of deal as to affect everyday life.
2 Both examples are specific about the Judgement-That it is a Judgement by God.That means that for gods people to go through the "Great tribulation" their would have to be a second "pouring out of Gods wrath" as they don't go through this one mentioned here in Luke.
3. UNTIL THE DAY god's people are taken out nothing happens but as soon as they are taken up(lot going up out of the valley)and Noah (rising up on the water) then God pours out his complete Judgement.
I am careful to say that this may be a taking out to "a safe place" or it could be the "rapture".
I have my own opinion of Course on which it is.
I find it helpful not get confused with normal tribulations/trials and the specific period of time known as "the great tribulation"
I would like to keep any comments as close to the points made as possible and in a friendly atmosphere as possible

Luke 17 24- 34
"For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. 25 "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man : 27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, UNTIL THE DAY that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot : they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building ; 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed

Yours Staff

There is a potential problem with a "rapture" interpretation. Luke 17 continues:
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31 On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. 36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.” 37 And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”
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The people here being "taken away" are being taken away to be judged, not taken away into the heavens.

hi,it is not just an appearance of normality according to jesus it is normal and he goes out of his way to point it out.what about the points i made yours staff

hi tmk,if it isnt the rapture or taking to safety prior to judgement what is it? and their would have to be 2 tribulations?what about the 3points made specifically?yours staff

Mathew 13

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 (Let both grow together until the harvest): and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

v39
the (harvest is the end of the world); and the reapers are the angels.

REV 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Hi Staff-

In regard to Point 3 (UNTIL THE DAY god's people are taken out)

The verses I quoted indicated that the people taken out are going to be dead-- that is why the vultures are gathering. The people taken out are not believers. Lots of people think that the verses talking about one being taken and the other left refers to the rapture of the church. But if they read on, Jesus answers the disciples question regarding where those taken are taken to, and he says, in so many words, to their deaths-- because carrion birds are circling.

If you think these verses refer to the rapture of the church, how do you interpret Jesus's words about the vultures gathering?

And remember-- in the cases of Noah's flood and Sodom and Gomorrah-- the wicked were "taken" not the righteous.

hi tmk, the problem with that is that it wouldnt be like the day of noah or lot which it would have to b staff

In Noah's and Lot's cases the wicked were destroyed.

Jesus here is talking about the wicked being destroyed, likely referring to the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 AD. True believers escaped the city, the wicked stayed behind and were slaughtered. I can guarantee that the vultures did indeed gather. It was a holocaust of major proportions.

hi tmk,exactly the point they escaped out
and in noah n lot jesus is giving the time sequence "until the day" as well staff

Hi Staff--

I just realized that we have been talking past each other which is why we were not getting what the other was saying.

Your understanding of the phrase "in that day" or "until the day" is that it refers to some future rapture of the Church, or the 2nd coming of Christ(not exactly sure which).

I do not believe that is what that phrase is referencing, which is fine. We don't have to agree on everything.

Hi TMK,
Sorry I was talking past you too.
My understanding of Luke 17-24 as with most is that Jesus is foretelling what the day of his coming will be like.
He gives two examples stating that just prior to judgement everything was normal sinful world and then when gods people were out of danger and only then did Gods Judgement come.This out of danger could mean in a safe place only or raptured.
Either way we are not present for this Judgement,we are in safety.
yours staff

Hi Bearmaster,
Jesus says not me that it will be like the days of Noah and Lot.Jesus gives the order of events,his people are taken out like Noah and Lot and then Judgement came not persecution.The people that were persecuting them particularly Lot were dead.
Noah was in the Ark he couldn't be persecuted unless by some of the animals.
It is a given that we wont come under the Judgement of God but I wonder does anyone not see this Judgement described here as something other than the tribulation.
Also I wonder what is the point of protecting people here on Earth when they could be just taken out at this point.The Logic seems flawed in my opinion.
Yours Staff

Staff they were spared by the saving of their lives. If Gods people are spared from judgment then please explain to me all the Israelite captivities....? And why would the days be shortened for the sake of the elect? Whatever theory one may have about the last days it is VERY clear we are not being taken out on flowery beds of ease....

hi gator,after you!could you comment on luke 17-24 on what jesus says as bearmaster said it is a given we escape gods wrath ,until the day and then the judgement came yours staff

hi bearmaster,i understand the difference between judgement,wrath and persecution but the real point is you wont comment on the days of noah n lot but go to the subject you want.these verses are an obstacle to post trib believers that they have to ignore because they dont fit in yours staff

Staff, if you are going to speak on luke 17 then you must also ref all the gospels that record the olivet discourse... Matt 24-25 and mark 13... I'm not even speaking on persecution I'm speaking on judgment. How can you reconcile what Christ says alone in these chapters and not see that the world is in upheaval and judgment is being handed down to all the earth? When Christ returns I know not but when He does it will be chaos beforehand. If FEW a righteous person is saved where will the sinner and ungodly appear? If your a pretrib guy that's great. Pray that more people will be converted because few people will be raptured especially in comfy America....

Hi Gator,
I am not saying that there wont be upheaval,it is the timing of the Judgement I am talking about.I agree when Christ returns their will be chaos beforehand yet in these examples Jesus is careful to point out that things are comfy just prior to Judgement and that Judgement cant happen with the righteous present.The order is what is important,we are taken out (whether a rapture as pre trib believe or brought to safety as the post trib believe),Judgement comes and then Jesus is revealed.
Yours Staff