WARNING

I am not entirely sure just what is going on around here lately but there has been an influx of divisive posts that are out of line in their tenor.Assumptions being made that are directed seemingly at members of this site...Snide comments, a divisive spirit, pride, haughtiness. An unhealthy anger seems to be back of it. This is not going to continue here.This forum has survived by being a place where these things are not tolerated. Many a good site has had to shut it's own do to this type of mindset. Ray Comforts forum comes to mind.IF you feel compelled to continue on with a mindset of tearing down your own brethren to get your particular point of view across you are in the wrong place. Cannot stress enough the principle behind what the Lord said." Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. "This is a warning to those who wish to continue in this manner.

Something picked up recently from listening to a rather distinguished and elderly gentleman who has much experience in this walk is what I suspect may be happening in part here.A lack of a high view of God.I have noticed it within myself as often times there can be a drift unknown away from that even if unintentional. This is all in general and can only pray that it is gleaned from, not as some sort of pronouncement, just what I am sensing, that, is subject to it's own particular faults and am open to correction, preaching to my own choir as well. It is my hope to redirect our focus once again back to the Lord, to Jesus who is all in all. This is all just food for thought.If this be true;Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. And if this is realized as we communicate and share amongst ourselves it ought to give us pause to consider our words a bit more carefully. Would we be saying some of things we say to one another in His presence? First thought upon waking this morning;"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) Joh 7:38,39And just as quickly;"But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh." Jam 3:8-10Springs and fountains. Living water and bitter water.What this has to do with a high view of God? Much it seems in that to be flippant in our conduct, even unbeknownst to ourselves seems to emphasize a drift in just Who it is we have to do with. A balance is needed surely, but a pause to humble ourselves and think on these things and pray, lest we forget this exhortation;"See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire." Heb 12:25-29Just to refocus a bit and parallel to the above if not only in principal but in realization again of what is yet to come and Who once more we are again under, His watchful eye;"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Luk 21:25-36Some Tozer to contemplate;"Pure thinking will do more to educate a man than any other activity he can engage in. To afford sympathetic entertainment to abstract ideas, to let one idea beget another, and that another, till the mind teems with them; to compare one idea with others, to weigh, to consider, evaluate, approve, reject, correct, refine; to join thought with thought like an architect till a noble edifice has been created within the mind; to travel back in imagination to the beginning of the creation and then to leap swiftly forward to the end of time; to bound upward through illimitable space and downward into the nucleus of an atom; and all this without so much as moving from our chair or opening the eyes—this is to soar above all the lower creation and to come near to the angels of God."A.W. TozerLuk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

I am not entirely sure just what is going on around here lately but there has been an influx of divisive posts that are out of line in their tenor.Hi Bro. Mike,Thanks for the insightful post which I believe many of us have been feeling also of late. I have felt quite vexed by many of the posts. Looking across the list of posts now was almost surreal having spent much time here at SI this last year. The whole direction of the site has seemed to shift. God led bro Greg to start this site with an emphasis on revival and spiritual renewal. it is my prayer that we will keep this in mind as we are making posts and starting new threads.God Bless,-Robert

I agree RobertW,One thing I would like to emphasise and is what I alluded to in another post. People must say something, we can't just let it slide. There are some solid folk who spend time on here, so if even half of them would put their heart on their sleeve and say when things are bad, the majority would agree. As a few of us have already started saying.

This is a place for edification and growth in the LordThank you Greg (and Mike and Robert)for keeping things in perspective.I would hope that all on SI would be more interested in growing deeper in the Lord than just discussing things that come to mind.I think we all have seen some amazing growth and changes in the brothers and sisters (including me) who have regularly visited SI in the past. Praise God for this!!!This is what it's all about. Getting to know Christ more. we miss you on here, Greg!In Him, Chanin

Thank you Mike for starting this thread. Here is my offering of loaves and fishes.Brothers and Sisters in Christ,SermonIndex (a.k.a. SI) has become a very special place for me over the last year. What started as a google search for A. W. Tozer sermons has dug up what could only be considered finding a precious jewel in the middle of a vacant field. The forum community was slowly molded and united into a close knit group of misfits tired of religion as usual and longing for the ancient paths of the true religion—knowing God and growing into an intimate relationship with Jesus and fellowshipping with His saints. Over the last few months SI has been growing very rapidly. I love the fact that so many have come to SI and love it as much as I do. And this is the reason for my appeal.The forums here have not been like typical religious internet forums. Yeah we’ve had our arguments and some pretty good ones too. I think all of us old-timers (in SI time of course :-)) have all got at least one or two posts that we’re ashamed of. But despite our failings we have pushed on toward the high calling in Christ and encouraged each other along the way. Over the past few months I pretty much stopped posting because I had become disillusioned with the forums, with myself and my attitude first and then with the direction that SI was heading. I would be the first to admit that there are several I need to apologize to KingJimmy and Agent001 are two that immediately come to mind for my unChristlike attitude towards. I love you two brothers and pray that Jesus is mightily manifested in your lives and hope that you will forgive me for my wrong attitude.But hopefully for the newer SI members I could possibly give some helpful advice.Forum History:SI has QUITE a history that’s developed in its forums. We’ve pretty much run the gamut of all the typical debates that naturally develop in religious forums. From predestination/freewill, and the nature of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and initial physical evidence, to once saved always saved…etc. And in all our debates the one thing I discovered is that from all these camps of Christianity there exists a group of people in them all who are in love with Jesus Christ and truly belong to Him. That’s why, as these topics have been laboriously rehashed, most of the “old timers” have simply posted links to all the former threads that already cover them instead of retyping it all over again. In other words we’ve been down that path and it didn’t profit us or make us greater souls in the kingdom of God and nothing was advanced for the cause of Jesus. We just argued whether it was friendly or heated it was just arguing. I would greatly encourage you to use the search bar at the top of the home page if you are interested in posting a thread on a topic like this to see if it’s already been discussed. And if it has and after you read through it, if you feel you have something to add to the topic then post away. But you probably won’t get much of a response by starting the topic all over again in a new thread; instead you’ll find a host of links to the other six times we discussed it in the past. I would hope that you find a different spirit on SI; one that will bless and strengthen you in Christ. The forums here have a different intent. Instead of trying to discover the knowledge of the universe or debate over jots and tittles we here at SI want to see Jesus formed in ourselves and our family and friends and that includes you. To me that is how an internet forum can truly glorify Jesus Christ. Which brings me to another point:The MessagesThe heart of SI is not the forums, but the sermons. If you are not downloading and listening to the convicting messages from the ministers listed on SI then you will miss the point and intent of the forums here completely. Greg made the forums as a place where we could discus how God was speaking to our hearts as we listened to the sermons from the great men of God in the past. If you are unable to download and listen to the sermons send an email or PM to Greg (a.k.a. Sermonindex), Mike (a.k.a. crsschk) or me (a.k.a. hulsey) and we’ll be more than glad to burn you a cd and mail it to you. The MinistersThe speakers listed on SI are considered men of God—with the exception of one or two, I know that Greg listed William Branham in the past merely for research purposes. But in our opinion the others are held in the highest respect and as such we will defend them and strenuously at that. Any honest questions will be answered and are welcome. Any posts that are designed to cause people to question the integrity of the speakers on SI will likely be locked or deleted unless you can provide some very solid evidence. The Bible says not to even entertain an accusation against an elder unless it can be verified and we take that seriously on SI. If you have any messages from these speakers that are not on SI you also might want to consider making a copy of it and sending it to us. We might be able to get it up on the site.HousekeepingThe forums have been split up into several sections. This helps to keep the topics all listed together in their proper groupings. PLEASE don’t post a topic about a speaker on SI in the “Lounge”, or talk about Scripture and Doctrine in the “Miracles That Follow The Plow” section (just two random examples). If you have a comment or a question about a speaker on SI, there is a section in the forum for that. There are several ministers that have their own section. For all others there is a section titled “Other Speakers.” If you have a prayer request or a current event that’s religiously related post it in the “Intercession and Current Events” section, a praise report would go in the “Miracles that Follow the Plow” section. If you want to talk about a book, we’ve even got a place for that. Etc…etc. These are just some housekeeping tips that will help keep the forums readable.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Outstanding Jeremy.Maybe in one sense the best thing we could offer and suggest is that everybody first listen to this message;A Call to Anguishby David WilkersonIt may not be everybody's 'cup of tea' but if your heart can resonate with this message in just what he is trying to express, there is a good chance that you may feel part of what it is that many are seeking after here.I really believe that deep down everybody that loves the Lord wants the same things that He does. How we go about that in so many different personalities is something that a place like this can be a great place to nurture that desire.Talking earlier the thought turned to where some of us 'old timers' came from since our earliest postings and think we agreed that it might be a bit to frightening to look back on. Hopefully there is always movement in this walk, closer to the Lord and further from ourselves.I do hope that whoever is out there will read through what Jeremy posted about this forum and just what it is geared to. Can only at this point hope to clarify a couple of things that brought out this whole post in the first place.'We' wear these little moderator hats only as a last resort when things start to drift into the wrong area and it is never pleasant. Personally am not conducive towards confrontation, never have been and to take on this 'role' in the first place was definitely against that nature.There has to be some order and issues of conduct is usually the biggest that has come up and caused the most problems and thankfully there has been few in actuality. But do want to remark that by no means are we above reproach, we need to hear just as much if we off target as well, do hold us accountable, one to another.And do feel free to express your heart and go back through the other topics that have been covered, the point that Jeremy is making is that much is to be gleaned from prior discussion and very well may have run through the same thoughts that we might want to bring to them. On the other hand they may give even more impetus to bring out even more questions and thoughts.Originally the grievousness that prompted this post can be found from within these scripture's;"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." Tit 3:1-9"Have you been thinking all along that we are trying to defend ourselves before you? We are speaking before God in Christ, and everything, dear friends, is meant to build you up. I am afraid that I may come and somehow find you not as I want to find you, and that you may find me not as you want to find me. Perhaps there will be quarreling, jealousy, angry feelings, selfishness, slander, gossip, arrogance, and disorderly conduct. I am afraid that when I come my God may again humble me before you and that I may have to grieve over many who formerly lived in sin and have not repented of their impurity, sexual immorality, and promiscuity that they once practiced." 2Co 12:19-21"Let no filthy talk come out of your mouths, but only what is good for building up as the need may be. This way you will give grace to those who hear you. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit, by whom you were marked with a seal for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, quarreling, and slander be put away from you, along with all hatred. And be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another just as God has forgiven you in Christ." Eph 4:29-32This is getting long again and don't want to detract from Jeremy's response. I do hope it is read and taken to heart. Have heard from a few that responded to this and must say honestly that it wasn't so much anyone in particular as I can't even recall now exactly without going back through it all. It was meant in general and the hope was to draw attention to it individually, to pause and reflect on the words we use with one another but more so what those words convey, what is going on in our hearts and that the Lord is in our midst not to mention any number of watching eyes, of who we can either be drawing in or turning away in disgust as we don't act any differently than the rest of the world.With that I confess my own failings here, they are many. This is not always pretty, the word of God is not always pretty, in fact it is often down right ugly as we deal with the sin that is still present within and without. So we harbor no illusions, it really seems to boil down to being honest and real, worshiping God in spirit and in truth. Helping each other to learn and grow and be challenged in our thinking, challenged in our hearts. To be humble and prayerful, forgiving and exhorting, repentant and encouraging, sorrowful and yet always rejoicing.This isn't about us anyway ;-)

Need to unfortunately keep bringing this back up as it has gotten to the point where trying to get the attention of some misguided intentions is failing.Greg wrote earlier:I have not been able to be as much ontop of things as I would like to be because of school but I have noticed somewhat of an dissive and brash comments being posted of late. I do think that people will be getting warnings if they continue in that type of spirit and there have been people who have been banned from this site before.For those who do not know, Greg is the operator of this site and it saddens to no end that for all the incredible opportunity, all the vast resources made available here, the outreach to vast numbers of people, there is still a considerable amount of total disregard and disrespect for this site and for him as he is now attending bible school and can't give the attention that might have been given before hand.Let me be even more blunt about it.This is not your website to come in here and disregard everybody else to get across your point. To disrupt, cause divisiveness, slandering each other, make backhanded snide comments, accusations, assumptions about each others character, name calling or any of the other dribble that is getting thrown around here without any consideration whatsoever.Some of the 'discussions' have turned from questions or particular problems into ridiculous controversy's that reek of so much pride it is shocking that it is not more painfully obvious.Nudging the combatant's to open there eye's to all this seems to be failing miserably. The tendencies to drag down this forum into the same endless arguments, controversies, snipping and backbiting that can be found elsewhere in abundance is not going to happen here. To reiterate, if you must, go start your own website and have at it.The leash has run out, it's stretched taunt. If you have trouble figuring out if this applies to you, go back and re-read your own posts here and pray the Lord will show you. 1Jo 3:21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence in the presence of God.Otherwise, the rope will be cut. This has gone on long enough.

Thanks for this Mike - I have really been ministered to through the forums, and hearing this level of commitment from those who manage - well, it very good to hear.Dan/\\/\\/\\

Hello brethrenEspecially those whom the Lord gave responsibility to tend his flock on SI, (Greg, Mike, Jeremy) It is true that SI is being used of God to nourish our lives and walks with the Lord! But lately as observed by some of us, there are some disturbing postings and even thread titles that do not minister grace to the readers and sometimes I feel tempted to answer it right there but I see it would be of no avail and would stir more disturbance on the site. But I think for those of you whom responsibility is handed, it would be good to correspond with those you feel to restrain on their PM alone, sometimes there could be misunderstanding and you never know what is in the heart of man unless you give him time and correspond with right spirit. And if it still continues why not measure be taken as Greg pointed out? Either you have to screen the post before viewed by everyone or ban certain threads that would not be useful to the readers. And all of us, please lets keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, and with right spirit please let’s bear one another’s burden like the Lord’s children. If any one wants to correct his brother let that brother be submissive and keep the spirit of this site! And above all let all of us pray and look to this people whom God has entrusted responsibility (the moderators and administrator) with respect, after all they are sacrificing their time, talent and whatsoever to bring us benefit! And it’s only with the SI folks right cooperation and contribution that all of us are sustained together in the Lord!God bless all of you and I love you all that’s why I speak, Your sis.Mekdes

It saddens me as well to see the bickering/debating.Please do not post things just to raise the roof, to cause a stir, or cause a debate on purpose. I don't want to come on here to see this and I am sure most of us don't. People come here to be edified and to learn how to GROW IN THE GRACE AND KNOWLEDGE OF OUR LORD- Not to participate or look in on a sparring match.In everything you do, stay away from complaining and arguing, Php. 2:14But some teachers have missed this whole point. They have turned away from these things and spend their time arguing and talking foolishness. 1Tit. 1:6Do not waste time arguing over godless ideas and old wives' tales. Spend your time and energy in training yourself for spiritual fitness. 1Tit. 4:7The majority of debating and arguing is attributed to pride. "I am right- you are wrong". "I know the truth- you do not." Pride, pride, pride.I would like to post this Proud vs. Broken just as a review:Can you tell that I LOVE this because it is so true- even in my own life I use it almost everyday. :)~PROUD~ ~~~~~~~~ Focus on the failures of others; they have a critical fault-finding spirit. They look at everyone else's faults with a microscope, but their own with a telescope Have to prove that they are right Are protective of their time, their reputation, and their rights Desire to be served and be a success Have a drive to be recognized and appreciated; they get wounded when others are promoted Quick to blame others for their problems; are unapproachable or defensive when criticized Keep others at arms length; find it difficult to share their spiritual need with others Have a hard time saying, "I was wrong, will you please forgive me?" Concerned about the consequences of their sin Compare themselves to others and think they are doing alright. Don't think they have anything to repent of Self-concious Don't think they need reviving, cleansing - but they're sure everyone else does! ~~~~~~~~~BROKEN~ ~~~~~~~~~ Are overwhelmed with a sense of their own spiritual need. Therefore, they can esteem all others better than themselves. Are willing to yield the right to be right Have yielded their rights; have a meek spirit, self-denying. Desire to serve others and make others a success. Are thrilled that God would use them at all, they rejoice when others are lifted up Quick to see when they were wrong; they recieve criticism with a humble spirit Willing to be open, transparent and get close to others Quick to admit failure and seek forgiveness. Grieved over the cause, the root of their sin. Compare themselves to the holiness of God and feel a desperate need for His mercy Not concerned with self at all Continually sense their need for a fresh encounter with God

Thank you for that proud vs. broken list, a very good reminder indeed. Here is another I have found helpful;In the Flesh 1.Anger and retaliation to injury 2.Wounded by insult 3.Head swells from praise 4.A life of acquisitiveness and self-interest 5.When mistaken - “white” lie to save face In the Spirit1.Forgiveness with communication and prayer2.Tender heart reaches out to the reviler3.Lowly heart, gives God the glory4.A life of devotion to God and selfless giving5.Will simply say “Oh, I am sorry”In Christ,Ron

Some real good points from all of you. Thanks Mike again for this reminder. I know he is a busy man; but I sure miss Bro. Greg. :-( God Bless,-Robert

Ron,I really like this list as well. Where did you get this? It's a keeper for me and my house. :-) In His love, chanin

I really like this list as well. Where did you get this?That list come from something I read on Enter His Rest.In Christ,Ron

Well to all this I would have to interject this scripture, not to justify anyone's remarks just as a reminder to all of us were this comes from. Eph. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

Thanks for the reminder Mike,May our egos be crucified on the cross...

Message recieved. Thanks brother,MC

I do not join forums as a rule, due to the fact that the enemy is out there doing all that he can do to discourage us. Some of the "Christian" sites that I have visited are awfull, they are not encouraging and uplifting, but full of angry people taking pot shots at each other over mostly non vital issues. It is imparative that this site be covered by prayer, and monitered by Godly moderators to ensure that does not happen to this wonderfull site. Thank you all for the uplifting messages, they are a real blessing In Christ Greg :-)

Hi Stephen,Thank you brother.Someone finally gets it and I am sorry to have to even put it that way. Strange thing is, you, like so many I have heard from I can't even recall anything devisive about and yet you are of the few who have come out here to openly to say so anyway.What a strange paradigm this all is. There is members apologizing to me and I don't quite get it. This isn't about me, my being offended, this is about everyone here and all the eyes of the watching world. Above all that, it is unto the Lord. Confession and forgiveness ought to be a ready spring from our hearts and lips first to the Lord and to the ones that are in need of asking for forgiveness and to the body as a whole. There is a whole lot am just trying to sort through here...I am new to this site and I have not taken the time to get to know the members here and yet I have been free with my opinions...So much could be said there. There are so many older saints amongst us that know a thing or two and it has been such an incredible privelage to have them come in here and share with everyone. The last thing we would want is to drive them off over such grevious things..In the future, if I fall out of line please let me know...even if you have to name me. I need to be held accountable. I am sinful to the core - what I think is good is SO often motivated by evil. Only on one condition. That you do the same for me. Thanks Stephen, the Lord knows.

Hi Greg (Smokey)I do not join forums as a rule, due to the fact that the enemy is out there doing all that he can do to discourage us. Some of the "Christian" sites that I have visited are awfull, they are not encouraging and uplifting, but full of angry people taking pot shots at each other over mostly non vital issues.Thank you! Oh that is what I have been driving at, this place somehow has managed to be... besides that, think it's accredited to much prayer and a true willingness to learn from each other. What you say is so true and sad, when the direction starts leaning towards that it's imperative to stop the drift and get things back to the Lord, which is where this all should be stemming forth and to. But thanks for saying so brother, it is truly the aim to keep the unity that the Lord longs for us to have with Him.

With the sense of thought in mind of:I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. 2Co 11:16-21A bit of commentary and in just a general manner:2Co 11:19 - For ye suffer fools gladly - You tolerate or endure those who are really fools. This is perhaps, says Dr. Bloomfield, the most sarcastic sentence ever penned by the apostle Paul. Its sense is, “You profess to be wondrous wise. And yet you who are so wise a people, freely tolerate those who are foolish in their boasting; who proclaim their own merits and attainments. You may allow me, therefore, to come in for my share, and boast also, and thus obtain your favor.” Or it may mean, “You are so profoundly wise as easily to see who are fools. You have great power of discernment in this, and have found out that I am a fool, and also that other boasters are fools. Yet knowing this, you bear patiently with such fools; have admitted them to your favor and friendship, and I may come in among the rest of the fools, and partake also of your favors.” They had borne with the false apostles who had boasted of their endowments, and yet they claimed to be eminent for wisdom and discernment.Barnes NotesAnd forever failing to give a proper expression... fortunately not without help..."I wonder how many of us are living on the virtues of our grandparents! The natural virtues are remnants of what the original creation of man once was, they are not promises of what man is going to be; what man is going to be is seen in the life of Jesus Christ. The workable medium is man. God takes as the medium of working the stuff we are made of, and all He requires is for us to be inactive and let Him work. When once we are rightly related to God through the Atonement we will be inactive and not in the way of His working in us as He worked in Jesus; consequently we shall be able to work out in our natural life all that God wills. It is the old twist, we will try to do what God alone can do, and then we mourn before God because He won’t do what we alone can do. We put up sighing petitions—“I have tried to be good”; “I have tried to sanctify myself.” All that is the work of God, and the best thing to do is to stop trying and let God do it. What we have to do, and what God cannot do, is to work out what He has worked in. We try to do God’s work for Him, and God has to wait until we are passive enough to let Him work in us. To believe in Jesus means retiring and letting God take the mastership inside. That is all God asks of us. Have we ever got into the way of letting God work, or are we so amazingly important that we really wonder in our nerves and ways what the Almighty does before we are up in the morning! We are so certain we know what is right, and if we don’t always keep at it God cannot get on. Compare that view with the grand, marvellous working of God in the life of the Lord Jesus. Our Lord did not work for God; He said, “The Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works.” Have we any faith in God at all? Do we really expect God to work in us the good pleasure of His will, or do we expect He will only do it as we pray and plead and sacrifice? All these things shut the door to God working. What we have to ask away from, to knock at, to seek through, are these pressing strivings of our own—When we stay our feeble efforts, And from struggling cease, Unconditional surrender Brings us God’s own peace.—a doctrine easily travestied, but a doctrine God never safeguards. The whole basis of modern Christian work is the great impulsive desire to evade concentration on God. We will work for Him any day rather than let Him work in us. When a man or woman realises what God does work in them through Jesus Christ, they become almost lunatic with joy in the eyes of the world. It is this truth we are trying to state, viz. the realisation of the wonderful salvation of God".Chambers, O. 1996, c1941. If thou wilt be perfect : Talks on spiritual philosophy. All this just to serve as a primer...

A pressing need to draw attention to a few things.Misunderstandings, patience, respect, elders, 'prophets'... Opinion.Am learning so much daily, moment by moment, from the Lord, from the 'greats' that have gone before us, from many here, from each other, from the blindness as well as the light, from the young but more so from the old. Meaning, that I have seen come through here some as young as 14 or 15 that have more spiritual acumen than some that have been at this for years and ought to know better. Certainly there is always a learning and growth curve, but what of respect towards those who have been around this block a couple thousand times more than some of us hot shot upstarts?We have a bazillion voices of the type mentioned here: 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, stop believing every spirit. Instead, test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. The many have multiplied and subdivided and the vast majority of them can't possibly be anything but false, there all saying different things. Moreover, there seems to be a 'spirit of' this creeping into our own thinking often times and the ugliness of it being carelessly bandied about because it seems nobody is listening...To each other, to the Lord or to those who could truly help us all, the more seasoned saints amongst us. A disturbing trend is a lack of respect towards those that come here and share their life experience in this walk and it shouldn't be too difficult to tell which are which, maybe just by taking the time to do a little searching on the members previous postings for one. But there seems to be too much that is reactionary without giving any thought to anyone else that is participating amongst us.We have heard from some high minded individuals effortlessly spouting off a mindset of "You need to do...thus and so", the thought of stereotyping individuals, slanderous comments, accusations, finger pointing...sigh...., to belabor the point...of what manner of spirit you are?Have we become a bunch of smart alecks, wiseguy's? For those of us fond of quoting Ravenhill, what might that mighty man of God have to say towards all this? Perhaps, " And you get to heaven and the eyes of Christ a full of Holiness and the place is brooding Holiness and you have all the saints of all the ages…and suppose Gabriel comes with a record of your devotional life? Heh??? We’ll hardly step out of time into eternity before we realize what FOOLS we’ve been."This may not even be intentional often times and at other moments it makes one wonder, what in the world is going on in the hearts of the redeemed?The under-lying problem is a preoccupation with self.Self importance.Self gratification.Self opinion.Will borrow a snippet from a newer member and more seasoned saint that sent me an article this morning:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~One problem and one solution1 Pet 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord…. (NIV)We fail to realize we have only one enemy --- it’s us. We have only one solution… Jesus. Scripture refers to this inward enemy using different terms: self, my life, soul, flesh and carnal nature. (Thanks brother)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Have tried to take in all that was stated from the many here both publicly and privately. Will confess my shortcomings in dealing with all this. Perhaps we have given too much latitude when a strong rebuke was needed. Perhaps we could have gone about this in a more private way, though some of that did and does happen but maybe not to the extent it should. The personal tendencies are to hope for self correction, a nudging to get or glean some perspective from other topics and what would seem to gather more import, but seemingly that is often not the case.There seems to be a fixation on American thought, though this has become and is an outreach that is being utilized by the vastness of the planet as the recent numbers suggest. That in itself ought to be humbling enough and yet still....Right now in various parts of the world there are untold and remarkably ignored, brothers and sisters being persecuted for their faith in the Lord. What pray tell would much of this trivialness look like to them? Not suggesting that these things shouldn't be discussed, but to devolve into controversies and mud slinging while they are under threat of death, torture, abuse, the heart break of family's... and still the willingness to lay down their lives for the sake of the Lord.And we have a conniption fit over a teen bible or some other secondary doctrinal issue. That the Lord would give us some eye balm and perspective. It is to our shame that we can't let go of our small mindedness.Have pounded this into the ground and pray that somehow this might be embedded within us; That we might humble ourselves before the Lord, cease going out of the way to be offensive as if it was some kind of badge to wear, the thoughts mentioned here on that are well worth musing on alone. Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 2Co 12:19 Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved,for your edifying. Joe 2:12 "Yet even now," declares the LORD, "return to me with all your heart, with fasting, with weeping, and with mourning; Joe 2:13 and rend your hearts and not your garments." Return to the LORD, your God, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster. 1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living. Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God." Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore, let us no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.Rom 14:7-13

God Bless You! That was powerful!! and as someone between the milk and the meat you got the message out for me that would have been some of my complaints here, but that's just like God "Right On Time"Thanks Bill

This was taken from the following posting:Let's bake a cakeAnd has only been edited to make sense as it applies here.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.... the penchant around here for thinly disguised and overt cynicism towards one another over difference of opinion is not casually done away with by a wave of the hand or another pronouncement to lighten up, even if it is not said in so many words.This is unnecessary, it is grievous and it must cease!There has been more than enough patience granted around here for those who want to press their own particular agenda's at everyone else's expense, whether that is intentional or not.This stubborn refusal to consider others more valuable than themselves. The attempt to bring these issues to light in so many different ways, the divisiveness, the slandering, the lack of respect for those who have much experience in the things of the Lord and even the operator of this website, Greg Gordan, all being disregarded.Am frankly disgusted with it.Any number of postings related to this:WARNING Another, and a well stated approach, read TonyS amongst the others, especially:Let Us Be Cautious With Our WordsIt has been reiterated over and over again what the thrust of this ministry is and now the tendency to drag it down into the gutter...:Community RulesWithin these guidelines is something that is completely overlooked. If you're replying to a post, stay on topic as much as possible.-If you're posting a new topic, do not post something that has been discussed numerous times. Browse the forums first or use the Search function.The sense of audacity and self promotion is appalling, no consideration, no contemplating, no searching not only of the forum but of the heart.Have backed off here for awhile, because these things always cause self examination of my own intents and planks. One is an issue of conduct, that which 'we' try and moderate. The other is the issues of the heart. Have no 'thus saith the Lord' to pronounce.Have no desires other than to learn and grow in the things of the Lord and this site is Rich in them.Greg Gordan has poured himself out into all that you see and hear, here. Countless hours, money, sweat and certainly tears over what has been happening around here of late, especially now that he can't give the attention to this site that he once did as he pursues studies in a Bible college.All this is Freely given.And to some it seems it's just some place to spout off any old thing that comes to mind.Prior to this I was not angry, but grieved.Now I am angry, as if that mattered. But let me just state that if Greg were as involved now as in times past, much of this would never had seen the light of day.Futile as it seems, this will be posted in the ignored "WARNINGS" thread as well.Disgusted.

A revisting... again.Why? Why this... lack... Where pray tell is the humility and brokeness, concern and consideration...What spirit...does this ever get old? ;Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

A revist. This may not be completly the issue at hand but for our newer members to review just what this site is all about, what is and is not tolerated and what the emphesis of SermonIndex is all about.It would be helpful to read the oldest comment's and replies first to get an idea of what the thrust of this site is. Let me draw attention once again to the quote from the main page:"The mission of SermonIndex is the preservation and propogation of classical vintage preaching and the promotion of genuine biblical revival to this generation."

What you can expect from a message board like this is Strong Convictions. That is what this site attracts. Those that desire revival have deep convictions and are willing to express them strongly. I do believe there is never room for discourteous communications especially between Christians. I have recieve comments in biblical form to the extent that I am cursed if I don't believe the way others believe even though the other person could not give biblical reasons for their beliefs. I have endeavored to show that cursings are never appropriate but strong debate can be acceptable. I dont' think we just have to "get along" on every topic and wash out the true Gospel. The preaching on this site prove that Wesley, Tozer, Roberts, Reidhead and the others spoke the truth in love and let the chips fall where they may. Some may be offended but the Holy Spirit can use proper speech for His glory. I am willing to reevaluate my discourses to better reflect the principles of this site and readjust my speech as needed. I am willing for anyone to reprimand me when it is needed if that person can give sufficient biblical principles to back up their correction. Two principles I do know are absolutely correct:1. There is a GOD2. I am not HIM.I am imperfect and still need to be taught. But I have discovered some things that may be of interest to others and may in fact change the way others think. I hope I can be useful to this site in some way. Blessings to all especially those who operate this site.

We've lost our vision!What is our vision? Who has lost it and how?

You know how Ravenhill said if he was the Protestant Pope he'd shut down all the churches for 3 months or so?...I've found this site to be detracting from my walk... I've found myself replacing sermons for prayer, replacing forums for reading the word of God...Folks, if I was Greg, I'd shut down the forums for a whole month or more and put up a warning to get refocused on God.jordanamo,This is why we don't have a Prostestant Pope! ;-) Seriously, I can relate to the sense of distraction you feel...and not just from this website but from all the competing Christian teaching, music, publishing, radio resources avaiblable to us these days.However, I think it's best to remember that we are all in different places. When I am frustrated others are encouraged. On one day you may be finding distrations here but someone else is finding something they needed from the Lord that same day. You may think no one is sacrificing, but there may be members among us who indeed are bearing up under terrific adversity through the ministry of prayer and the grace of God. This is why we really can't be shutting down watering holes just because some of the horses muddy the stream from time to time. Yet, I do recognize the good heart of your point jordanamo. The forum will be a healthy place if we practice seeking the Lord in private devotions first, before coming into public fellowship to speak.Blessings,MC