How To Know You Are Being Perfected in Love and You Are In Him

If we are not being perfected in love, then we are not being perfected in anything.

These two verses tell us how we know that we are IN HIM and that we are being PERFECTED IN LOVE.

We are being perfected in love 1) if we love one another and 2) if we keep His word.

1Jn_2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1Jn_4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Both verses tell us how we can know that we are IN HIM and both tell us how we can know that we are being perfected in LOVE.

What does it mean if we are not loving one another or keeping His word?

Pilgrim

Maybe someone that isn't being a hypocrite, and doing all the thing that Jesus commands (in public and private life, through thoughts and actions)John 15:10
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

Hard Question to Answer.

[Quote :
What does it mean if we are not loving one another or keeping His word? ]

It means we are in sin. When we choose to follow our flesh instead of His spirit, we are sinning against God. There is nothing good that dwells in our flesh.

However, the only way for us to stop sinning is to turn our lives over to God. We cannot change our lives, only God can. (PS : I'm not talking about sinless perfection which I do not believe in)

Krautfrau, I'm really curious. Appreciate your reply. Do you consider yourself to be better/more holy than
1) Peter
2) John
3) King David
6) King Solomon
7) Prophet Isaiah, Jeremiah
9) Abraham
10)Jacob
11) Greg Gordon (sermonindex admin here)
12) All the other posters here on sermonindex

Thanks

pilgrim,

You asked,

" what does it mean if we are not loving one another or keeping
His Word ?"

I would say,..that we are missing the mark,...and it is what goes on
Inside of that narrow gate,..It is the kingdom life,...the way of the King....
The image of Jesus.

There is a HIGH CALLING in God, as Paul said,....and we just must
love the Lord more,...and I believe that must be with all our heart,
soul,mind,strength,......that being our goal,and what we are reaching for.

He MUST INCREASE and we DECREASE.

When He moves / teaches us,..keeping His Words and not throwing
His Words to the ground,keeping our words.

I loved your post,...it is sobbering and it causes me / us to think .

Thank you,
elizabeth

[by krautfrau on 2012/7/13 14:44:37

But I guess you are asking how would I see myself if I was perfect. I would still consider myself chief of sinners because it is all His righteousness]

I am confused. I thought you mentioned in the other thread that you have only fallen from sinless perfection twice and right now you are sinless. Or are you now currently in sin again? Thanks

I am sorry

[by krautfrau on 2012/7/14 2:47:00

No need to be sorry - I love the Lord and trust Him even though I may not understand my walk at present. His ways are perfect]

That's good.

I was searching for something on Randy Alcorn's site and stumbled across this. I admit I have not read fully yet but I do trust Randy Alcorn. Perhaps you might want to read it?

http://www.epm.org/blog/2010/Jun/30/sinless-perfectionism-are-we-capable

Sinless perfection.

When He sees us in and through the Beloved, yeah?!?

When you are acting in faith in the Lord you are not sinning. I think that when we become sinless through Christ alone, we won't even be conscious of it. It seems like an "automatic" response mechanism of the will acquired through the Beloved Son.

Krautfrau, Do not even look for miracles in your experience because YOU ARE a perpetual miracle in Christ Jesus. Have you ever thought of it that way?

The fact that my will is dying every moment to the will of God, yet I still live and breathe is a perpetual miracle. Hmmm?

Christ was all too aware of how unbearable this world can and will be for God's own. This is why He specifically prayed for those that belong to The Father in John 17: 16. Christ did not pray for the world.

Please believe that at your darkest and lowest moments of spiritual uncertainty, we who are in the Beloved are there with you (incl. those mentioned on your "holy" list). I, too, am a chief sinner and it burns daily. Yet, I am not qualified for perfection. I have tried and failed miserably in attempting to occupy the role of "object" in place of God. It is a hellish place to be. I am so happy as a "subject to" and "object of" His will. My will, however, cannot occupy both roles and be happy or whole.

Holiness (wholeness) comes from God. My wholeness can only come from God. If and when I take my mind, heart and strength off of Him and claim it as my own, I am no longer whole. This happens all throughout the day. Everrything in man's reality has been engineered to keep man distracted with the "self". And for a Christian who is truly reborn, this world turns out to be a perpetually painful place.

But take heart, for Our Lord and Saviour has Overcome The World!!! And we can do so ONLY when we abide in Him and His Word abides in us.

Love-in-Christ,

KP

All of the men you mention were just as imperfect as we are and engaged in sinful acts of unbelief which still have ramifications to this day.

Yet, through faith by grace they are accepted in the Beloved.

Through Christ alone, I am just as holy as they are and yet, just as sinful.

Love-in-Christ

KP

I am not consciously sinning but I have lost the assurrance in my heart and I am not seeing daily miracles.

Hi Brenda,

This statement is confusing to me.

If you were not subconsciously sinning and therefore had this 'assurance' would you be 'seeing daily miracles'? This is strange because it would make God's goodness limited to whether or not we were 'holy' today and thus based on our works and not Him.

Your beliefs (sinless perfection) are very strange to me, you come in here talking about them constantly, backing them up with very strange interpretations of scripture. You readily admit yourself that you can't live up to your own beliefs but yet seek to bring others into beliefs that you yourself can't live up to.

Why bring others under a yoke that you (admittedly) can't live up to yourself?

You can dismiss me as a hater, unbeliever, infidel (whatever) if you like, no worries there, but I'm seriously wondering about the above things.

I always thought "sinless perfection" was a bit redundant and wonder why the phrase was coined with both of those words together?

"Perfection" is in the NT and there are several thoughts surrounding this word and its also "perfect", "perfected".

Here is where "Perfection" appears.

Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

2Co 13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

There are 5 occurences of "perfected" and way too many of "perfect".

Pilgrim

not a single definition of holy that iv found ,means sinless perfection in the contex spoken of by you brenda ,with all respect

be holy for i am holy ,,does not men be sinless like i am sinless ,,,,,,cheak ot the defintions ,i never in even saw the word sin mentioned , in the dicionary

Krautfrau,

Boy, do I take this seriously! Yet, only the Lord will know when this is being manifested in me. It will happen when I have little to nothing to do with it.

I do know that there is a perpetual miracle in operation via God's mercy and enabling power of grace.

The fact that Christ can, will and does dwell within me is miraculous.

The fact that the Holy Spirit can, will and does take control of me is supernaturally magnificent.

These are the only conditions where holiness is possible.

YOU SAID:

"And when we are walking rightly, all creation recognises our authority for example the animal kingdom and the weather, evidences of which are given in the testimonies of those Wesley interviewed and which he looked for as evidence".

Uh...We are still fallen and living in a state where the flesh often assumes and defines human dominion apart from the necessary condition of God's dominion.

Creation recognizes our authority, but one could understand how the animal kingdom may have unresolved issues with trusting us after centuries of systematic animal sacrifices were executed by the very high priests of our "dominion". Animals often encountered our priests with tools of destruction rather than "domestication".

Acknowledged human dominion is rather overrated and very dangerous to mankind as well as nature.

Krautfrau...after wasting my most impressionable years studying philosophy and religion, then, wasting further effort and time in completing a graduate degree - the Lord has graciously brought my heart to accept that my mind is in need of constant renewal through His Word abiding in me.

Repentance is a miracle. Being lost and then found (whereby the map was only discovered after the fact) is wholly a miracle.

Spiritual warfare. Amazing Grace! Being the recipient of something more valuable than man could ever quantify, yet utterly undeserving of it. How? These are all miraculous conditions.

Love-in-Christ,

KP