Ravi Zacharias speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle

He spoke at the UN too. Don't know what to make of it.

I had downloaded the audio of his message when it was presented but could never get myself to listen to it because I was afraid - because I always liked him so much.
That message was in my computer that died - so I just did a search for it and now it's transcripted. {etr}

http://www.rzim.org/usa/usfv/tabid/436/articleid/96/cbmoduleid/1045/default.aspx

Yeah, that's the problem with these big named preachers. They'll speak anywhere, giving no thought to the fact that their presence automatically endorses the beliefs of the organization. For instance, this one preacher who's stuff I used to really like (the Apostle Paul), spoke to a whole group of Pagans in the Areopagus...right in the midst of all of their idols and pagan gods! And this other guy, Jesus of Nazareth, had the audacity to preach in Sheol!

The nerve of these guys.

I know right! Like how the apostle Paul stood up in Areopagus and told them that the Divine Nature was not a One fashioned out of gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. (Acts 17:29) And then following up by saying that God has commanded all men everywhere to repent.

I'm sure that's what was being preached in the LDS temple right? The same way Paul did it, saying that the Jesus that the Mormons serve and believe to be the half-brother of Satan isn't the real Jesus. And that God has commanded that they repent. Just like Paul did it.

Right?

Confronted the idols and told them that their precepts of God and who Christ is are inherently and fatally flawed and cannot save them, and that the time of ignorance was over and now repentance was commanded?

Luke 24

"and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem."

I didn't hear one reference to repentance in the message that was preached to the Mormons, who are just as lost as any other heathen.

And Jesus didn't mix words much in John 4 when confronted with someone who said that Jews and Samaritans basically worshipped the same God. He didn't let that masquerade go for a second and directly answered that God MUST be worshipped in spirit AND in truth.

The Mormons most certainly do not worship in truth. Christ and Paul must be our examples when preaching to the lost, but we have to make sure we do it the same way they did, and not skirt around the essentials that have to FIRST be established.

To try and use any other method or reasoning is disingenuous to the context and the example left for us.

it does not matter where all the problems are for a river pilot if he stays in the channel. the gospel is our channel.

So Jesus, Paul, and all the rest of the apostles weren't really living the Gospel when they warned of all the problems, and preached against the errors of their day, correct?

paul, as you said pointed to a slab to the unknown god and preached the gospel.if you are a pastor or the leadeer of those you have led to Christ or are responsible for then you can criticize and warn those in your fold ...otherwise shut up.

What about a few verses down from there where he called idols false and said God commanded that they repent? Or the verses before where he was provoked (literally to anger as the Greek seems to make it appear) when he saw the idols receiving glory instead of God?

The ones in that circumstance being told about their error were certainly not in Paul's fold. He found common ground between them, but he didn't just leave it at that. He confronted the error that they believed. He essentially said, "You may have gotten something right, but here's where you've gone off." I would again ask for Scripture references and precedents to validate what you're saying. The Bible's filled with the opposite. "The Bible is both pro-active (positive – The gospel, the good news) and reactive (negative -pointing out error)."

I'm not judging any men personally, I'm simply stating what they're saying in light of how the Word shows us an example. God will ultimately judge all men, however the Word of God will help us to judge the things that they say and do on earth (1 Cor 2:15), which will be apparent to all. If anyone has an issue with that they can take it up with the Author. I didn't write it.

And again, I've never said one word against Mr. Zacharias on this thread. I did not call him a false teacher, a false brother, a deceiver, or anything like that. The only thing I'm doing is comparing the example of what Paul and Jesus said and did to what's being preached to the lost today, as there is not a man alive who's actions are not to be examined against the Biblical example left for us. If that's the Biblical definition of the type of "judging" we're not supposed to be doing, then...

Did Jesus "sanction" the beliefs of the pharisees and saducees when he preached in the temple? Did Jesus "sanction" the beliefs of the Samaritans when He preached to the woman at the well? Do evangelist of today sanction the actions of the Homosexuals when they preach in the "Tenderloin District" of San Francisco? It matters not HERE we preach, but WHAT we preach!

You're right. But in all of those situations, Jesus never compromised the truth for the sake of "peace". He went directly for their error, and exposed it for what it was. Error. He didn't "sanction" their error in their arena, he addressed it as error, and pulled no punches about it, or tried to appear relevant. To brush over error for the sake of "unity" has never been God's idea of evangelism. The truth was preached at the sake of the preachers life, and ultimately it was required of them. Almost all of them, actually. To say anything else doesn't line up with the Bible.

Think Jesus and all of the apostles were killed and/or persecuted because they were just "sticking to the truth and not pointing out error and false beliefs?"

They made no compromise on the truth, and pointed it out the same way a father would cry out to his young child playing in the road or trying to put a fork in an electrical socket. But like selfish children the world thinks that dad's only trying to ruin their fun.

The argument made in this thread that one can not preach in the bastion of the enemy is false, one can; as long as one preaches the inerrant Word of God, confronting the false beliefs of those he is preaching to, which in some cases, may endanger one's life.

EXACTLY. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I bet we could be good friends!

For sure, man.

One poster best stated it. It is not WHERE one preaches but WHAT they preach. The link Proudpapa posted reported Ravi spoke 3 times in the Salt Lake area. His messages appeared to have the content of Christ. Please understand I have not seen the the transcript or heard the video. But only read the link Papa posted. A google search might reveal more.

The article did say that only one other non.Mormon spoke from the Mormon temple. That being D. L. Moody. One can only conclude that Moody would have preached Jesus.

We can only pray Ravi preached the gospel and it will impact Mormon hearts.

Bearmaster.

However I do wonder one thing. If Ravi was preaching the truth of Jesus. Where is the offense of the gospel? Where is the offense of declaring that Jesus is the only way to be saved? Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through me. Peter declared that there is no other name given to men under heaven by which they may be saved.

If Ravi were declaring as Paul did. They must turn to God in repentance and have faith in the Lord Jesus. One would expect some hostility to that message. Instead Ravi received standing ovations. Beware when speak well of you.

The gospel message is good news to the sinner but hostile to those in religion. Particularly Mormonism. The late Dr Walter Martin, best known for his book, Kingdom of the Cults, always encountered hostility from the Mormons. This brother was gracious but bold in declaring the truth of Christ but exposing the lies of Mormonism.

I am not saying we are to be jerks in declaring the truth. We are to speak the truth in love. But we are to expect opposition from the evil one when we declare the truth.

So this does beg the question. WHAT was Ravi preaching.

Caps for emphasis only.

Bearmaster.

You're on the right track of thinking, bearmaster.

I'm watching a video of the sermon that he preached there right now. The speaker who opened up before Ravi (Fuller Theological Seminary President Richard Mouw) said something so crazy, I literally said, "WHAT???!!!!" out-loud when I heard him say it.

From a local newspaper article about the event;

"Mouw noted the 200th anniversary of Joseph Smith’s birthday next December and several scholarly events planned to celebrate during the coming year. “I hope many in the evangelical community will take part in those events,” he said."

And I watched him say it, without a word of disagreement from an entire panel of so-called evangelical leaders.

Absolutely Anti-Christ!

Promoting joining hands to celebrate the birthday of a false prophet who received another gospel than the one in the Scriptures (so important Paul warned against it twice in a row in Galatians 1:8-9). A man who said God the Father was just another mortal begotten on a far away planet, who fathered through divine sexual intercourse both Jesus AND Satan (who they believe to be half-brothers). A man who said the blood of Christ was insufficient for the removal of all sins, and that Quakers live on the moon (I'm not making this stuff up)? Coming with another gospel whilst denying the Son? And we should join with Mormons to celebrate this man?

Completely insane!

So far no error has been addressed on the Mormon's perverted views of the person of Jesus Christ. Every time the name is mentioned the Christians in the audience will think of Christ, while the Mormons can nod in agreement while thinking about the spirit-child half-brother of Satan. The stumbling block has most certainly not been taken out of the way, let alone addressed.

Here's to hoping the message goes up from here, somewhere.

Brother I am reminded of an incident in Richard Wirmbrandt's life. When the communist took over Rumasnua. The leading pastors were gathered at an event. They would one by one stand up and praise the communist ideology. Sabina Wormbrandt told her husband Richard. You must speak out against these lies. He said to speak the truth would cost him. Sabina encouraged him to stand for the truth of Christ. He woke out against the evils of communisn. He proclsmaimed Christ. And he paid the price of imprisonment and torture.

Pray tell where are the Richard Wormbrandt's of our day? Where are those who will speak the truth of Christ?

Bearmaster.

I can appreciate someone's teaching, preaching or ministry - but have had to learn to not get so 'attached', that if per chance they went the wrong way, later down the road - that it wouldn't take me down with them or cause that 'fear' that some experience when their favorite speaker falls doctrinally or otherwise.
We get truly attached to our favorites and when or if they fall - we can have our own faith affected or at the least, our hearts broken. Some of us have gone through that experience.

I'm not judging Ravi - but until The LORD Returns - we don't Know what direction any of those that we follow will go in -- so it's best to just guard our hearts - don't follow men - but just enjoy their messages without putting the confidence in them as we do in the authors of the books in our Bibles.
The deception that's coming, will be so cunning, so crafty, that we'll all need discernment beyond what's ever been seen.
It is dangerous to follow man - 'Any' man can go the wrong way in the future.
I love Ravi's gift but cannot put my faith in any living man so that it would affect me if they joined the wrong crowd in the future during the times of great deception and the biggest split in 'the church' as there ever was.

I wonder why Paul Washer or David Platt or Steve Lawson or John MacArthur or Al Martin or any of the other Sermon Index featured preachers not invited to speak at the Mormon Temple. For that matter how come the Mormons did not invite Ian Paisley.

Kind a makes you wonder?

Bearmaster standing down.

Brother I am reminded of an incident in Richard Wirmbrandt's life. When the communist took over Rumasnua. The leading pastors were gathered at an event. They would one by one stand up and praise the communist ideology. Sabina Wormbrandt told her husband Richard. You must speak out against these lies. He said to speak the truth would cost him. Sabina encouraged him to stand for the truth of Christ. He woke out against the evils of communisn. He proclsmaimed Christ. And he paid the price of imprisonment and torture.

Pray tell where are the Richard Wormbrandt's of our day? Where are those who will speak the truth of Christ?

And one will see the fruits of this. I've seen it in Japan, almost the exact same way. During the Japanese occupation of East Asia, I've been told that there was one major difference between the Japanese pastors and the Korean pastors, and it was this;

The Japanese army would go into churches with a picture of the emperor. They would present it to the pastor, and say, "We don't mind that you continue on as Christians, as long as you place the picture of our emperor in your sanctuary, and pay homage to him at the beginning of your services. Do you accept?"

The Japanese pastors thought it was "best" for the sake of peace to just "go with the flow" and not cause any waves. The pastors in Korea refused one by one as the walls were painted with their blood. Bullet after bullet.

As we all know, Japan was judged and fell.

Korea's church grew out of control. Japan has the lowest Christian numbers in all of east Asia by far, and literally no growth.

There are prices to be payed, and rewards to be had, for the integrity of proclaiming the full Gospel, no matter how high the cost. No mistaking that.

"So far no error has been addressed on the Mormon's perverted views of the person of Jesus Christ. Every time the name is mentioned the Christians in the audience will think of Christ, while the Mormons can nod in agreement while thinking about the spirit-child half-brother of Satan.
The stumbling block has most certainly not been taken out of the way, let alone addressed... EverestoSama

This event happened about 8 years ago. You hit it on the nail-head, EOS, this "preaching" seemed more conciliatory peace-making than the divisive kind that Paul preached to separate people to the Christ as God only.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."..Jesus

Consider this message compared to Stephen the martyr's brave and last message. I am sure that the Mormon apostles knew exactly what was to be spoken, and it was greeted with many standing ovations. It appears they were well pleased.

I finished watching another video at a Q&A after a lecture of RZs. A young man asked him to reconcile the homosexual issue. After a new-age intellectual philosophical barrage, 10 minutes long, he did. The bottom line was that you could be a member of his church, and accepted well, but you could not be in the ministry until you became celibate.
http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/ravi-zacharias-on-being-a-gay-christian/

"While he acknowledged that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differ in many of their views from historic Christianity, he emphasized much of what they share in reverence for a being both consider the divine Savior of mankind." Christianity Today

Otherwise, They were applauded for at least considering Jesus, and thought themselves justified nevertheless, as "having different interpretations."

This is at the root of Ecumenicalism; All roads lead to God. I watched as RV elevated Henry Nouwen to sainthood.

← DefCon has chronicled Ravi Zacharias’ downfall beginning with his first public compromise when he accepted an invitation to speak at the LDS temple in Salt Lake City but failed to make any distinction between the true Jesus Christ of the Bible and the demonically inspired false Christ of Mormonism. See Ravi Zacharias fails to preach the Gospel to the Mormons.

We then examined his further compromise in Ravi’s Descent where he accepted the condition to not pray in Jesus’ name at the National Day of Prayer coordinated by NDP chairwoman Shirley Dobson, wife of James Dobson of Focus on the Family which recently promoted the cult of Mormonism. Beginning to see the big picture yet?

Then we examined Ravi’s Crash and Burn as he not only accepted an invitation to speak at rank heretic Robert Schuller’s New Age ReThink conference, but that Ravi Zacharias also spoke favorably of Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen, calling him “one of the greatest saints in recent memory.”

Now Slice of Laodicea and Apprising Ministries are reporting that not only will Ravi Zacharias not apologize or even back away from his endorsement of Henri Nouwen, but his ministry is defending his position. You can read the following letter from Ravi Zacharias Ministries in defense of Ravi’s endorsement of Nouwen by clicking here (PDF).

One of the most shocking parts of this letter written by Margaret Manning was her justification of Ravi’s compromise via the following statement:

“ . . . if it weren’t for the Catholic church you and I would not be here–nor would Christianity.”

Ravi Zacharias has become one of a long line of “public figure” Christians to compromise a little here and a little there until full blown apostasy is reached. What next Ravi, what next?

“Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God’s house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her own way to God.”

Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen
http://defendingcontending.com/2008/12/26/the-smoldering-ash-heap-of-ravi-zacharias-ministries/

John .7:43 says thus the people were divided because of Jesus. He did come to bring a sword, to divide. For those who love him who be the truth. Yes, unity. But for those who hate what he stands for, psrticulay in cultic circles, hostility.

Jesus says in the gospels do not think that I have come to bring peace but a sword. The sword is his word. His declaration that he is the Son of God. His declaration be is the only way to salvation. All other ways are false. This is the truth that divides.

Bearmaster.

Truly seems to be a time to gird up our hearts, in this time of growing apostasy from the Truth.

Three times Jesus called His Spirit "The Spirit of Truth".
Four times in the NT, The Word is called "The Word of Truth".

Many want the baptism in The Spirit For the gifts or 'a calling', but not seeing that Truth is above all else - and then the Genuine gifts will come from 'Him'.

1Jn 2:21 "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it,
And that no lie is of the truth."

Very tricky days that we're living in and only His Spirit of Truth will get us safely through to the other side - If we're willing to lay down our idols - including ourselves and what 'we' desire other than just Christ Himself Alone.

Trying times indeed, and tiring as well. I see more questioning or strethching of His Word of Truth than speaking it without some sort of fear of rejection.

Although many of these speakers haven't experienced Pentecost in it's truest sense, [the Baptism in The Spirit of Truth with signs following] - those that claim to have experienced His Baptism are falling for lies nonetheless -- so what were they baptized in?

Dan 11:35 And some of them 'of understanding' shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Someone said, that if we think that we can't be deceived, than we're already deceived.

That one statement was and is still on my heart as a wake-up call.

I don't mean to put spiritually unhealthy fear in anybodys' heart - but there is a spiritually sensible & Biblical fear of the deceptiveness of our own hearts and flesh - our blind spots, etc. that I personally want and need to stay cognizant of.
Also had heard - never apply to others what you haven't first applied to or have lived through yourself. If someone says that we're hard on others - we need to be able to truthfully say that we have followed and experienced our own words to others before we shared those words with them. ie - harder [with The Word] on ourselves than we are on others or living a much stricter lifestyle than we are asking anybody else to.
Another said that the only thing we need to fear is our own flesh and I do believe that.
I pray to make it myself - though maybe today that's not a question for me - I wonder what will come at me in the next 24 hrs that could put me to the test written in that verse above.
Pray one for another - and Thank you Sister for your prayers for me as well.

I highly recommend all to read this transcript before any more conclusions are made.

The transcript posted isn't actually what we're referencing. I too, thought it was his address given to the LDS church, but when I realized it was just his UN address I looked up the video of the LDS address. What Brothertom and I are speaking about is that message to the Mormon Tabernacle, to which there is no transcript, and should be watched.

Something very scary happens in that video. What you will see is someone preaching the Gospel of Christ without first defining the Truth. Jesus is first defined as the Way, but then His personage is not addressed in the Truth (though this is of course mentioned when He is stated as being the truth, yet this truth is never defined), and thus cannot be received as the Life.

What you will then see, is a man speaking truths about Christ, and an audience of Mormons and a panel of Mormon leaders nodding in agreement with every word, and then delivering a standing ovation.

They have no problem with anything that's preached, as they believe in the name of a god they have that they call "Jesus". He's not the Jesus from the Bible. The Jesus that existed from eternity. They believe in a "Jesus" who never existed. Like we've said before, the LDS church believes that he's the spirit-child half-brother of Satan that was created through divine sexual union. This was NEVER addressed.

And this was the key issue. The Mormons have no right understanding of Christ. They can sit they and nod, and "amen" every word, because they're agreeing in name only, but have received a different Jesus, a different salvation, and a different gospel. One which is no gospel at all.

Jesus was in a similar situation in John chapter 4 with the woman at the well. When the woman asked for living water, did He just give it to her? He didn't. Before He could give it to her, He first addressed her sin. And THEN he addressed her false worship. She basically did the same things that the Mormons do, saying roughly, "We have the same God, but worship differently." Jesus does not let this go for a second. He then says to her,

"Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

He addresses her and her peoples' false worship, and tells her that the Father is seeking those who worship in spirit AND in truth. To worship with only one, is to take away from what Christ said, and to present a lie. If what one is doing is worshiping together in spirit but not in truth, you don't have worship at all. You have false worship. Just like the Israelites in Exodus 32 fashioning a golden calf and saying, "This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt." and going further to say, "Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD (YHWH in the Hebrew, they literally were saying that it was the same God)."

Did God say, "Hey, we've got a group of people worshiping Me down on the foot of the mountain, in a bit of an off way. They're using the right terminology, and they call Me the same name, but they're got a different god. Go down there and just don't address what's wrong, but instead join in the worship and try and make a bridge of unity between a right understanding of Me, and a distorted, perverted view of Me, and keep it as peaceful and free of confrontation as possible. We don't want any offended."?

We all know that's not what happened.

However, that WAS the way God's truth was presented in the sermon we're referencing. The Truth was not addressed. And all of the Mormons, and the Israelites from Exodus 32, and all of the Samaritan women throughout history could have sat there and nodded their heads in agreement saying, "Yes, This Jesus is our Jesus. This YHWH is our YHWH. This Baal is our Baal." When God has said, and says, "You MUST worship in spirit and truth."

This last point I'm going to say I'm EXTREMELY hesitant to state, because I know it will be taken out of proportion and I'll probably get words loaded into my mouth for saying it, but I'll try to word this as carefully as possible.

I think it's important to watch this video for one specific reason. Whoever watches this video will get a tiny taste of the way Anti-Christ will operate, and what spirit he'll come in. A spirit that will present something true, without addressing the Truth that will set the hearers free, that those from both sides can sit and listen to, and clap, and agree, and give a standing ovation, and say, "Well isn't that wonderful! We can all receive this!" Only his audience will be larger, and he'll be MUCH better and smoother than anything seen in this video.

I'm not attacking Mr. Zacharaias, or saying that he's an Anti-Christ, or a false brother or anything like that. But if Peter can be the mouthpiece of Satan, standing in the very presence of Christ, how does that make anyone immune, if they don't balance, weigh, and deliver every word from the Spirit of Truth? Jesus addressed it.

I'm sorry to say, the truth that would have set the Mormons free was sacrificed for the sake of "peace" and "unity". Though neither fit the standard of God's peace, and God's unity. I hope Mr. Zacharaias preaches the full Gospel if ever given the chance again there, no matter what it costs him.

I had watched the video a couple of years ago and it kind of struck me as odd.

Yes. "Odd" is something that it most certainly was.

I'm glad that God has given you insight to see the witness and lifestyle of every person who's posted on this thread.

Just for grins sometime though, you should ask one of the "naysayers" from this thread, Brothertom, how many he's shared the full Gospel with, even at the risk of his own life.

I doubt he keeps a tally though.

how is your ministry of exclusion working in japan?

Well enough I suppose, though I assume by "ministry of exclusion" you're referring to the exclusion of precedents and teachings not found in the Bible. Though God will ultimately be the judge of how well things are going. Thanks for your concern. And prayers are much appreciated, as they're well needed here.

""They have no problem with anything that's preached, as they believe in the name of a god they have that they call "Jesus". He's not the Jesus from the Bible. The Jesus that existed from eternity. They believe in a "Jesus" who never existed.

Like we've said before, the LDS church believes that he's the spirit-child half-brother of Satan that was created through divine sexual union. This was NEVER addressed."
EverestoSama.

This is true. This is a very clean video and very informative. I know that much of it is true. It boils down the incredibly fantastic doctrines of Joseph Smith and compares them with the Bible; Stunning difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2wXP3ajMcs