can suicide be forgiven ? what if the person that commits suicide does it so their spouse is released from the covenant of marriage they have , so that their spouse may be free to marry someone that they are in love with and can be happy? if suicide can't be forgiven, then how does someone that is worthless, and is nothing but a waste of space continue to live in such a depressed stage in life?
Dear 4gvn-or-4gtn,
Why do you ask this question? Who is worthless and nothing but a waste of space?
Stop, wait a minute, Who defines the worth of a person?
It was still God's idea that this person was born with the intend that they might find him and have eternal life.
Someone is crying out here. I have never met you, whoever you are, please do not go that far in your thoughts. Seek help from someone available in your area as soon as possible. I pray for you.
[by 4gvn-or-4gtn on 2012/7/17 14:21:54
what if the person that commits suicide does it so their spouse is released from the covenant of marriage they have , so that their spouse may be free to marry someone that they are in love with and can be happy?]
--
Dear sister,
The bible is silent on whether suicide can be forgiven. However, suicide is a sin. Pls ponder this. We are asked to love God first and foremost and put Him first. If one is committing suicide because of the reason above, then she is loving her spouse more than God.
Luke 10:27
He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.
Also, I can tell from one who has contemplated suicide, DON'T. You are grieving God immensely.
---
[by 4gvn-or-4gtn on 2012/7/17 14:21:54
if suicide can't be forgiven, then how does someone that is worthless, and is nothing but a waste of space continue to live in such a depressed stage in life?]
You may be worthless to others, BUT you ARE NOT worthless to God. You are not forgotten dear one, but you are forgiven and are loved.
There is no such thing as a person too worthless or depressed to be saved. There was once a man that could only live by lying down on a bed that moved up and down. The movement of the bed allowed him to inhale and exhale. Well, God saved him. Was he useless to society. You bet. Was he worthless in Jesus's eyes. No.
Also, there was a woman who could only move 1 of her finger. Guess what. God used her to type out Christian materials in an old typewritter with just that 1 finger. While other houses were watched by the government for such activities, she could go about doing that because the government thought that she was useless and could not do anything. So don't think you are useless.
What about Nick Vujicic. He was born with no arms and no legs. Yet God used him mightily to spread the gospel and he even got married.
Wow, isn't God great. He can make something out of you. Never listen to those that want to put you down. Listen to God. After all He makes you and knows you better than anyone else. He cares.
You need not be depressed. Look to Jesus as your saviour, king and friend. Get to know Jesus. Read the bible, start with the gospel of John. Pray. Talk to Him. He listens.
I will pray for you.
edited slightly
Michelle,
The Bible clearly states: 1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
A person who would go to the extent of murdering him(her)self does not have eternal life abiding in him. The question is not whether or not it can be forgiven. All sin can be forgiven if a person confesses and repents. Unfortunately the process of repentance (which is initiated by the Holy Spirit) cannot happen once a person is dead.
A person who would believe that she is worthless DOES NOT believe God. God stated through his Son Jesus Christ:
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
He also asks the question:
Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
The eternal part of you is worth more than all that is on the earth REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR COMPANION THINKS ABOUT YOU!!!
However, if you believe the lies that your companion has chosen to believe about your worth, and you take your life, instead of believing God, look at what Jesus said about the place that you would go to:
Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
It all boils down to WHO you choose to believe: God or the devil.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
PLEASE don’t listen to your enemy any longer. Talk to Jesus. He loves you so much that HE DIED to save you from suicide. Don’t let that GREAT act of love be in vain for you and deprive Him of the joy and purpose that He intended for your life!
narrowpath wrote: "Stop, wait a minute, Who defines the worth of a person?"
Have missed hearing from you. Have not had the ability to call anyone long distance anymore because I couldn't afford my cellphone. Had to make cuts ... have missed you much - have prayed that you would post here and to enjoy these beautiful Saints here that will show you the love of GOD as well -- that HE wants you to know about.
All of the posts above mine here are given in the heart of that love.
YOU are part of our Family. The enemy comes to rob, kill and destroy life - so we're going to keep praying and hoping we hear more from you.
Sister, I hope you stay in touch in every possible way.
The LORD Loves you and so does your family here and around the globe.
You are a very sweet and dear Sister, with much to offer a hurting world.
You're Precious in His Sight!
Always yours.
QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________
that you would post here and to enjoy these beautiful Saints here that will show you the love of GOD as well -- that HE wants you to know about.
_____________________________________________________________
AMEN! Ann...
by 4gvn-or-4gtn on 2012/7/17 11:21:54
can suicide be forgiven ? what if the person that commits suicide does it so their spouse is released from the covenant of marriage they have , so that their spouse may be free to marry someone that they are in love with and can be happy? if suicide can't be forgiven, then how does someone that is worthless, and is nothing but a waste of space continue to live in such a depressed stage in life?
________________________
Just wanted you to know that I will be praying for you. I know that when all you can see is darkness and you feel like you are worthless its difficult to believe when others tell you that is not true, but to all of us here you are a precious child who is worth so much. You are worth so much to GOD that HE gave HIS only SON to die for you. You are worth so much to HIM and to us so please don't listen to the lies of the enemy.
God bless
maryjane
Can suicide be forgiven?
YES.
Everlasting is not contingent upon your works. It is dependent upon being born again or not.
If you are saved and commit suicide you go with Jesus. If lost that person would go to hell.
If you are severely depressed or mildly - or even 1% depressed - please brother or sister "cast all your care upon Christ for he careth for you" - 1 Peter.
May all believers at all times cast all our cares upon Him!
"Righteous New"
That's a lie from the pit of hell itself and I'm not picking on you as a person but what you've typed.
You would do well, not only for yourself, but for our Dear Sister in Christ - to look in any KJV Concordance in the New Testament for the word "works".
Here are just two -
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man
according to their works.
This Sister is being lied to by the father of lies - Satan himself that masquerades as an angel of light and feeds lies into the minds of GOD's children and mankind as a whole that "sound honorable" ---- making suggestions to the mind of the person, that "this act is the best thing for everyone concerned."
First comes the accusations to the person - whether saved or not - that their life is worthless because "they're BAD" or "just too sick to go on" - either mentally sick or physically sick and that "the family or husband would be better off if they weren't alive anymore".
Don't you see who you've sided with for this dear woman?
Satan doesn't come to any of us human beings with the obvious of evil --- he knows better than that.
He comes to us with an intelligence that can't be measured with our rediculous-to-him, IQ tests. Only GOD Himself is omniscient and can out-smart this foul spirit that wants this ladys life to end.
I was just about to come back on here to post to the thread about Satan and found your post to Michelle.
She has a name and she's greatly loved by our Father and greatly hated by the father of lies. She doesn't need to hear anymore lies.
Everyday, people are talked into commiting suicide by Satan - like those that think they're saving someone else by straping a bomb around their waists and pulling the string.
Deception is deception - and once a person isn't breathing anymore - there's no chance for GOD to show that person just what He wanted to do for them in a wonderful way.
You have to be alive to be forgiven of your sin.
You have to be alive to see if GOD won't reconcile a marriage.
You have to be alive to trust GOD.
You have to be alive to trust Jesus as The LORD over your life and to believe His Promises to work ALL THINGS together for the Good.
You have to be alive to see what He had planned for you from the foundation of the earth.
NO ONE HAS THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO TAKE THEIR OWN LIFE - and Satan is a liar when he tries to put some "self sacrificing" excuse behind why anybody should destroy what GOD Created. What Jesus Created is nothing but Good but Satan hates All that GOD has Created and wants to destroy that life.
The more of a threat a person is to Satan's Kingdom, the more that Satan will target them for this type of destruction!
I and others know this from personal experience.
I forgive you, but please don't ever help anybody kill themselves ever again.
There's no excuse before GOD for taking the life of that which HE's Divinely appointed to be on this earth.
No past sins, no present sins can be repented of, once we're dead.
Suicide is sin.
Can suicide be forgiven?YES.
By far the worst thing I've read all week, maybe all year. Repent.
Amen, Miccah and double that for everyone that read that and DID NOTHING.
Here in Greece because of economic crisis every day
many people suicide.
Is this has to do with money or lack of confidence?
See the report
http://www.rodacino.gr/article.jsf?id=61CB8721796CDE450B8426CBC7C4CBFB&at=1
Miccah and Jesus-is-God - you do not know the gospel.
You are the ones who do not know the truth and what salvation is.
You believe in salvation by works, not salvation by faith.
RighteousNew, what a name! I do declare...you want to be called righteous but are white-washing sin?
In any case, you better be extremely careful here when you say that suicide is OK. You do NOT know who you are talking to or who is reading this! Your advice is HORRIBLE, comes from the pit! You repent! and NOW is barely quick enough.
Am I mean? No, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER IS FACING!
So, I wrote in caps - and for good reason. I am very upset, extremely upset! God have mercy on you!
ginnyrose
EDIT: Or, maybe you are the abuser of this poster?
LORD I lift this child of Yours up before YOU now. LORD YOU know the heartache and pain that is being endured and only YOU can bring healing. I pray LORD that YOU will cover this child from the enemies attacks and touch their heart in such a way that they would know how deeply YOU love and care for them. I pray that YOU would just wrap YOUR arms around them and hold them close until this storm passes and they are able to see through the darkness unto the light of YOUR love.
I pray this in JESUS name
Amen!
4givn-or-4gtn you are infinitely loved by the Father. Suicide is indeed sin, and those who state otherwise need to repent of their error. I have dealt with suicide in my family (step-dad), and have lost one sister in the faith because of his death. I pray often for her. It is a hard task to witness to her now. Please, stay on the forums.
Suicide is God's loss of the destiny and righteous life HE intended in creating a person.
We are praying that through our spiritual weapons of prayer and faith, these stongholds will be dis-mantled.
Russell
Can suicide be forgiven?
It is unthinkable, it is forbidden, and a blasphemous rebuke to God Himself by rejecting the extreme grace of the gift of life itself. Consider abortion under these same indictments that you bring upon this person, whoever it may be.
"If suicide can't be forgiven, then how does someone that is worthless, and is nothing but a waste of space continue to live in such a depressed stage in life? "
It is this exact sentiment that causes many mothers and fathers to murder their unborn children who may be deformed, retarded etc.. Their life has no value.
There have been a number of "substitutionary suicides" in history that may not fall into the category of sin. The most obvious might be when a soldier in battle falls on a hand-grenade in a crowded foxhole. He commits suicide to protect and save others. How would God see this? Maybe differently than the depressed case you offer. Think of all of the Israeli warriors who fell on their sword, [ suicide in battle] rather than endure capture?
I must say that your post has a ring of "Situational Ethics" wrapped up in it; very similar to the perverted doctrines of Bonhoeffer, who in effect saw that offering his own life, committing sin, in a commitment to save others was justified, even noble to the Christian cause.
"so that their spouse may be free to marry someone that they are in love with and can be happy? ".............
This is disgusting in it's perverted empathy,and because of an emotional detachment you possess, while yet clearly expressing the context of the torment, and I think it unreal.
It leads me to believe that your post is contrived, in order to get a read on a sense of MORAL RELATIVISM, and take some sort of satisfaction as to the different Biblical responses, knowing that there will be a divided forum over this emotionally charged issue.
So, am I wrong? If so, is this post about you? or is it a vested conundrum designed as a humanistic riddle?
The answer to your question is that there is no answer in that every suicide may be different, and only God has the individual answer, and the question was "Is it Sin?", not if a person could still be saved if committing suicide.
If God forgives murder, as in the case of King David and in the case of Paul the apostle, then is suicide out of His reach of mercies? God must, and is the only righteous judge in these matters of the saving of the soul, and His mercies are beyond us, and cannot be fathomed.
I think that you are playing a game. I hope I am wrong.
4gvn is a hurting person...please realize this when you post. Yes, I have talked with her...
Pray for her - she needs to feel your comfort and love.
ginnyrose
GOD Truly BLESS you, Ginnyrose - MaryJane - Narrowpath - Learn - Lordoitagain - Miccah - Dvndsn and Rufnrust.
I feel the love from you all is so very tangible and Blessed of Him.
I know that I can't find words for the others or at all here, with what is going through my mind about those that would read this thread and walk past a thread like this where a human being is on the very precipice and either say something devilish or Nothing At All, except for the verse that The LORD gave me last night regarding all of this ...
Rev 2:4&5 about "Loving GOD and others/His Creation" ...
John Wesley on Rev 2:5 - ""I will remove thy candlestick, unless thou repent" = Remove the flock now under thy care to another place, where they shall be better taken care of."
I have been watching this and it seems that most have missed her point! I am not posting about suicide b/c I want to make a statement about why Michelle wants to take her own life... this is EXACTLY what teaching divorce as the second unforgivable sin gets you – people feeling lost and hopeless. This teaching is as bad as the law in India they had for hundred years that when the husband died, they tied the woman to him and burned them both (illegal now). It sounds as if it is her husband who is the one who sinned and loves another but yet that teaching has made Michelle to feel the sinner and hopeless wanting to take her own life....
so that their spouse may be free to marry someone that THEY ARE IN LOVE WITH and can be happy? (caps are my emphasis, not hers)
Michelle, if your husband has fallen for another woman, then it is “HE” who is the one who is in the wrong and at fault here not you. Do not even THINK about killing yourself to make that pervert happy. You are allowed to part ways with him. Jesus said in the case of adultery you can leave and are free REMARRY. These Pharisee’s teach otherwise but you have to make up your mind who you want to follow: them or Christ.
From Derek Prince: If a person is free to divorce, is that person free to remarry? I want to say to you that both from Scripture and the culture of the Bible, there’s not a suggestion anywhere that a person can ever be legally free to divorce and NOT legally free to marry. DIVORCE INCLUDES THE RIGHT TO REMARRY. (caps are my emphasis, not Derek’s)
Oh but here it comes... the fruit throwing at me! Lol Throw away my friends! Jesus and I can handle it! Michelle, my email is on my profile page, feel free to use it!
God bless you,
Lisa
In this case - only if the wife commited adultery and that was the reason for the divorse, can this man ever re-marry - even if his wife lives or dies - he is Not Free to Remarry, if they are divorsed and she had not committed adultery while they were married.
If she did not commit adultery - even if she dies - he is NOT Biblically free to re-marry.
If she did commit adultery and he wanted the divorse because of that reason Only - he is free to re-marry, even if she's alive.
Alive or dead - if the wife did not commit adultery and adultery was Not the reason that they are divorsed - than he is by no means whatsoever free to 'ever' remarry.
Only if she commited adultery is he ever free to remarry - whether she's alive or dies of natural causes.
That is the only clause for remarriage that came from Jesus' mouth.
{eta} What I have written above is from the Old-Old Assemblies of GOD and The Church of GOD and others teaching on this matter.
The Main Point is - if she commited adultery and that is why her husband wanted the divorse and not because of Any other reason, [like, just wanting to marry someone else someday] - then he if free to remarry WITHOUT her needing to be dead!
4gvn is a hurting person...please realize this when you post. Yes, I have talked with her...Pray for her - she needs to feel your comfort and love.
ginnyrose
Amen.
Mods,
I've never asked this before, but if you see this, PLEASE remove the user RighteousNew's posts from this thread. This is not the message we want someone assured of if they're hurting and stumble across this site looking for answers. Many times the devil needs only one voice to push someone over the edge, and I would hate to see this forum be a platform for that one voice.
"4gvn is a hurting person...please realize this when you post. Yes, I have talked with her...
Pray for her - she needs to feel your comfort and love.
ginnyrose"
Well, I did add that I hoped I was wrong, and I was; I really have never encountered this before, and the deadliness of the depression, all in order to make a cheating spouse happier?
It is really hard to wrap my mind around, but I will say one thing to 4gvn. You do not need to feel comfort and love as much as you need to get ahold of faith, and what it is. The Oprah gospel teaches the emotional side of this as valid. You may feel better, but healing comes by God's intervention by faith, and real healing will only come by that.
" Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him..................
!!!...Faith begins with an assurance that God is alive, and hears our petitions, and rewards them who seek Him!"
There is such a thing as Christian Counselling. It is possible that you could find help here, or possibly a real brother with a Pastorial passion could minister to you, and help you work out your faith. See yourself in it for the long-haul, often it may take a little time.
Do not avoid people, and withdraw. I know people are painful to be around when you are hurting. Try and find some degree of authentic fellowship; even a home fellowship. It is a lie to see yourself as worthless; this is self condemnation. See yourself as forgiven, and confess and forsake your unbelief to God in private prayer; also worship him, no matter what; as Job did.
Determine yourself to endure to the end, no matter what; this is resolve. Consider that there are people who love you, and consider the church. You would wound many people, and hurt them if you took your own life, so, consider it as unthinkable. You must overcome.
I hope this helps.
JiG,
I am not talking about the man remarrying; I am talking about Michelle being able to remarry since her husband is the fornicator and she is an innocent.
But never mind, I’m not arguing with you, we’ve been down this road before. We don’t agree.
*******************
Michelle,
God bless you, fast and pray over these answers with your Bible handy and see what the Lord shares with you and then test it again!
Michelle, again I reiterate: “Do not even THINK about killing yourself to make that pervert happy. You are allowed to part ways with him. Jesus said in the case of fornication you can leave and are free REMARRY.”
Lisa
4gvn, please read this short devo. It helped sooo much.
A SPECIAL TREASURE
by David Wilkerson
In Numbers 13 and 14, we see that Israel had sent twelve spies to search out
the Promised Land. When these spies returned after forty days, they planted
three lies in the hearts of God's people:
* "There are too many people in the land — and they're too strong for us."
* "The cities are walled too high. The strongholds are impregnable."
* "There are giants in the land and we are no match for them. We are
helpless, finished!"
These lies took the heart right out of Israel and the people endured a night of
despair: "And all the congregation lifted up their voice, and cried; and the
people wept that night" (Numbers 14:1). Can you imagine this scene? Think of
what it must have sounded like. More than 2 million people were weeping,
wailing, moaning, focusing completely on their weaknesses and inabilities.
Those wailing sounds of unbelief bombarded heaven.
Beloved, take a good, hard look at that scene and you may see yourself in the
midst of it. Have you ever spent a night like that one, wailing and moaning
because of demonic lies that were planted in your spirit? You may have cried
out to God, "I've had it — I can't take any more. This trial is too much.
These strongholds in me will never come down. I'll never make it. I've lost the
battle."
The devil throws these same three lies at all of God's people: "Your
temptations are too numerous. Your lusts are too overwhelming. You are too weak
to resist the powers coming against you."
The word that God spoke to Israel is for us today: "Ye shall be a peculiar
[special] treasure unto me above all people; for all the earth is mine" (Exodus
19:5).
"For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen
thee to be a peculiar [precious, special] people unto himself, above all the
nations that are upon the earth" (Deuteronomy 14:2).
BrotherTom, you wrote:
"There have been a number of 'substitutionary suicides' in history that may not fall into the category of sin. The most obvious might be when a soldier in battle falls on a hand-grenade in a crowded foxhole. He commits suicide to protect and save others. How would God see this?"
I have yet to read the other posts, but just a quick response to your above comment - This reminds me of a section in G. K. Chesterton's "Orthodoxy" where he makes the following commentary regarding this topic:
"Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer's suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man's crime is different from other crimes -- for it makes even crimes impossible." (Chesterton, "Orthodoxy", Chapter 5).
What do you think of this?
Love-in-Christ,
KP
JiG, I won't argue but only put forth my view. I believe in that instance (fornication by the spouse), divorce EDIT: "and remarriage" is allowed. Also, I believe 1 Corinthians 7:15 gives permission for divorce (if an unbelieving spouse leaves). However, the passage as a whole does not say anything about remarriage. It is not wise to presume on the Word of God.
Back to 4gvn, is she okay? Do we know much else? I am praying for her.
BrotherTom also wrote:
"There is such a thing as Christian Counselling. It is possible that you could find help here, or possibly a real brother with a Pastorial passion could minister to you, and help you work out your faith. See yourself in it for the long-haul, often it may take a little time."
Boy, IS there. And God's Word is the DSM-IV.
Why do we Christians miss the boat regarding the fact that "Christian Counseling" (that is, counseling rooted in the authority of God's Word, the faith in the Love of the Son of God, and the comfort of the Spirit) is the only sufficient healing source for mental health.
Oh, the healing breakthroughs that would take place if Christian counseling took its proper stand in the field of psychology!!!
Love-in-Christ,
KP
Hi Brother dvndsn. Just to clear up why I wrote what I did .... I was relaying what is in the mind of this X-husband.
It's not a secret that Michelle and I have talked on the phone.
The OP indicates what Michelle is thinking what her X-husband is thinking or what she feels 'obliged' to do because of what she thinks he's thinking and how she feels about herself. That if she's dead, then, in his/her mind, that he can re-marry - my reply was to Michelle and not to Lisa. They are already divorsed and the OP is Michelle's thoughts - that if she kills herself - than that would set her husband free to re-marry ... because she believes he's a holy man and that she's nothing but dirt and that he could get re-married if she would kill herself.
I am Very Sorry that I had to give out this much - but it appears that this "remarriage" topic could turn sour and not in her Best interest.
I pray that we can drop this topic of remarriage now and focus on the Fact that no one has any GOD given right to take their life and that GOD loves us all enough to leave the 99 to go the ends of the earth to reach one of his sheep.
Blessings to you!
Brother Issachar, Biblical Counseling 'is' Great but the DSM-IV / ICD codes / "DXs" - are not from GOD and the more recent dependence on over prescribing/dependence on psychopharmacology isn't neither.
Love in Christ and Blessings to you!!
I found this great little site that made a lot of sense, all about these questions brought up here, and it is all Biblical, at Christian Answers; website below.
God's Bible response to suicide.
........................................................
"Are you feeling that life isn't worth living anymore? Do your problems seem too big to handle? Does it seem that no one cares? Sometimes these feelings of despair or apathy cause people to think about suicide. What does the Bible say?"
Suicide is not a new idea. The Bible records seven suicides.
AbimelechJudges 9:52-54 Abimelech lacked personal identity.
SamsonJudges 16:25-30 Samson died for a cause he believed in and for revenge
.
Saul1 Samuel 31:4 Saul was stressed out, unable to live up to certain expectations; felt rejected and a failure.
Saul's armor-bearer1 Samuel 31:5 Impulse, he wanted to die with his boss. 40% of teenage suicide is impulse.
Ahithophel2 Samuel 17:23 Ahithophel was bitter because his advice was not followed.
Zimri :1 Kings 16:15-20 Rebellion; Zimri had a problem with authority.
JudasMatthew 27:3-5
Depressed, Judas felt trapped by materialism and guilt.
But what does the Bible say about taking your own life?
1.God has a great plan for your life. God has created us in His image (Genesis 1:26-27). He created us for a purpose. God has a specific plan in mind for everyone.
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future (Jeremiah 29:11).
2.God's plan is for life, not death. The Bible teaches that both physical and spiritual death are the result of our sin and disobedience to God, but eternal life is a gift to those who receive it.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 6:23).
3.Jesus taught that death and destruction are the work of “the thief” (Satan). He said,
The thief comes only to steal and destroy (John 10:10).
John 8:44 says that Satan is a “murderer” and the “father of lies.” The feelings of despair that lead to suicide are caused by some of his lies.
4.Jesus wants us to have life. He said:
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full (John 10:10).
5.Life belongs to God. It is never our place to take our own life or someone else's life.
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price.
Therefore honor God with your body (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).
IF SUICIDE ISN'T THE ANSWER, WHAT IS?
1.The solution to despair and hopelessness is not suicide, but faith in God.
We wait in hope for the LORD; he is our help and our shield. In him our hearts rejoice, for we trust in his holy name. May your unfailing love rest upon us, O LORD, even as we put our hope in you (Psalms 33:20-22).
2.Christ promises that He will give us rest from our problems.
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest (Matthew 11:28).
3.Tell someone. Tell your parents, your brother or sister, your teacher or school counselor, your pastor or youth minister that you are thinking about suicide. If a friend tells you that he or she is serious about suicide, then you need to tell someone who is responsible and can help.
4.Accept Christ's free gift of eternal life and salvation, if you haven't already. Romans 10:13 says:
For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
John 1:12 says:
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.
5.When we accept Christ, God gives us a brand-new life and sees us as completely holy and righteous.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! (2 Corinthians 5:17).
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21).
6.Because of God's salvation through the death of Jesus on the cross, we can have assurance of eternal life with God.
I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. (John 5:24)............And answers to these questions.....
Are there biblical examples of depression and how to deal with it?
Are you feeling depressed? There are answers. What should a Christian do if overwhelmed with depression?
How can I be and feel forgiven?
If God forgives me everytime I ask, why do I still feel so guilty?
I think I was sexually abused, but I'm not sure. What Is sexual abuse, and what can I do to stop the trauma I am facing now?
I'm ugly. Why was God so unfair to me this way?
If God knows I am hurting, why doesn't He help me?
If a Christian commits suicide, will they go to Heaven?
Saints,
Why don't all who contributed to this post Logon at 7:00 pm EST tonight (Wednesday, 07/18/2012) as a "Prayer Check-In" and then logoff for ten minutes, whilst we all simultaneously pray for our hurting Sister.
We could pray that the Lord reveal to her the preciousness, worth and significance of her existence as His Bride with a luminosity so intense that it permanently burns out and consumes all thoughts of suicide or self-harm in any capacity.
So, the Prayer Check-In could happen as follows:
(1) Logon to SI at 7:00 pm EST with "Prayer Check-In" typed in Subject Line.
(2) Quote and type in a piece of Scripture with a message of encouragement to our beloved hurting Sister.
(3) Logoff for ten minutes and pray in for her, with each other.
(4) Logon after ten minutes of prayer and type "Prayer Delivered" in the Subject Line and a brief (3-5 lines) message of encouragement and love (in your own words) to her.
The more the better. What do you say?
We love our saints with a true love. If she is hurting ot the extent of self-harm, this hurts me, as well. I'd like for us to do this as a family. This could be an expression of our sister's worth as God's own and as a part of His Body.
I wish that I could call her, listen to her voice, listen to her story and the source of this pain. And then, speak true words of Christ's love to her. And I would continue to avail myself as a long distance friend-for-life (as long as she continues living). And Christian friendship is worth its weight in gold.
See you all at 7:00 pm EST? I'll be starting a New Thread for our "Prayer Check-in" for our precious and beloved sister in Christ. Please show up.
Love-in-Christ,
KP
Tom, your article is very good. Thank you!
The only problem is the last question... that would be OSAS that we don't all subscribe to and the Fact that there are some out there that read that answer to that question that 'think' they're saved but aren't and will kill themselves because of that answer - not realizing yet that they weren't saved .... so it's a dangerous answer.
Otherwise - Great!
JiG: Indeed, I am completely content to drop it. God does not give us the right to take our own life. In Him we live, move, and exist! (Acts 17:28) Good reference to leaving the 99. God loves us SO much!
by IssacharSon on 2012/7/18 12:24:59Saints,
Why don't all who contributed to this post Logon at 7:00 pm EST tonight (Wednesday, 07/18/2012) as a "Prayer Check-In" and then logoff for ten minutes, whilst we all simultaneously pray for our hurting Sister.
We could pray that the Lord reveal to her the preciousness, worth and significance of her existence as His Bride with a luminosity so intense that it permanently burns out and consumes all thoughts of suicide or self-harm in any capacity.
So, the Prayer Check-In could happen as follows:
(1) Logon to SI at 7:00 pm EST with "Prayer Check-In" typed in Subject Line.
(2) Quote and type in a piece of Scripture with a message of encouragement to our beloved hurting Sister.
(3) Logoff for ten minutes and pray in for her, with each other.
(4) Logon after ten minutes of prayer and type "Prayer Delivered" in the Subject Line and a brief (3-5 lines) message of encouragement and love (in your own words) to her.
The more the better. What do you say?
We love our saints with a true love. If she is hurting ot the extent of self-harm, this hurts me, as well. I'd like for us to do this as a family. This could be an expression of our sister's worth as God's own and as a part of His Body.
I wish that I could call her, listen to her voice, listen to her story and the source of this pain. And then, speak true words of Christ's love to her. And I would continue to avail myself as a long distance friend-for-life (as long as she continues living). And Christian friendship is worth its weight in gold.
See you all at 7:00 pm EST? I'll be starting a New Thread for our "Prayer Check-in" for our precious and beloved sister in Christ. Please show up.
Love-in-Christ,
KP
If that time is alright with everyone else [some may not be home from work yet on the west coast] - it's a GREAT, GOD inspired Idea, Brother and definitely "Love-in-Christ".
Thank you!
{eta] Bless you much, Brother dvndsn!
JiG wrote:
That if she's dead, then, in his/her mind, that he can re-marry - my reply was to Michelle and not to Lisa. They are already divorsed and the OP is Michelle's thoughts - that if she kills herself - than that would set her husband free to re-marry ... because she believes he's a holy man and that she's nothing but dirt and that he could get re-married if she would kill herself.
Do you think that he could be subtly planting it in her mind when they talk that ‘if she were to die, then he would be released to marry this other woman?” And that that could be why she is so tortured? If so, he is definitely not a holy man.
I will be praying for Michelle.
God bless,
Lisa
No need to apologize at all. You were the spring board for what I felt to say - even though it wasn't addressed to you - GOD used your post to give me the nerve to post it. :)
Thank you for all that you wrote in this last post. Thank you Very much!
His Love to you, Lisa.
Some thoughts after reading much of this thread!
Michelle,
According to the bible your husband is not a holy man if he is in love with another woman. If you are his lawful wife then he being in love with another woman makes him an adulterer. If you kill yourself then he will still be an adulterer and now a murderer for making you think that you are the problem and need to be dead.
Michelle, you are not the problem, it is sin in his heart that is the problem. If you commit suicide then you have sinned against the very one who loves you the most the Lord Jesus Christ. You must come to the realization that your husband does not love you. He is not worthy of you and stop blaming yourself.
One other thought you may not have considered that if you kill yourself you could lose out with God for all eternity and also cause your husband to spend eternity in hell because this will make him an adulterer for the rest of his days if he doesn’t repent. You dying does not change the fact that he is an adulterer in his heart. If you realize that God wants you to live and has loving plans for your life for all eternity, then you will do him and others more good, than the evil you would cause by ending your life.
Blessings...from brother rbanks
"Do you think that he could be subtly planting it in her mind when they talk that ‘if she were to die, then he would be released to marry this other woman?” And that that could be why she is so tortured? If so, he is definitely not a holy man."
I've seen something this diabolical happen, even to a precious innocent child. She never knew what was happening to her, and at the age of 3, begged me to rescue her. Obviously, I could not just kidnap her, but i wanted to. Her heavy mother would sit on top of her, and angrily curse her with ideas like this.
She was later molested, then shipped off to a grandma that was likewise sick, and is now at 13, abandoned as a schizophrenic languishing in a mental hospital, alone in a far away state. I beg God for her, now and then, and as I am led, for deliverance and favor and grace: Justice if you will.
In my memories of ministry to people like this, I often have to confront the lie that was believed. It may be feelings of guilt and unworthiness, or simple anger and the hurt of betrayal, which seems to plague this woman.
We must come to her with the Truth of God's love, while confronting the lie and sin of the wound, carrying God's heart of compassion. This must have "legs" to it, and a commitment.
I met my most favorite Orphanage founder of all time once, about 10 years ago. At that time, he travelled internationally in a business trading heavy equipment, while supporting two orphanages. He lived in South Africa, and had one there, and one in Israel.
He spoke to me about an orphanage in Rhodesia controlled by the government there but ran by European sodomites, who used the children in the housing and schools there as a sort of flesh-pot; taking orgy filled vacations there, and spending there lusts on these innocents.[ I lie not]
I broke down crying instantly, as the sorrow of it all overwhelmed me. These are the wounds of some; inflicted so deep, and by such dark intentions; satanic.
These are some of the children he takes in, and he is a Christian. So, I asked him; "How long do you keep these children? Do they get a trade, and move on, or what?"
He looked deeply into me, and said; "Forever, until they die. they are mine, as my children."
And then again, the Spirit of the Lord overpowered me. Isn't that Jesus? He always will Father us, He will always be there, He will NEVER forsake us. Is not that what gives us security?
I suspect that this is what the apostle Paul wrote about, about the longing, the passion, and the love that the Early church plants possessed, and what was in his heart. Fatherhood begets brotherhood.
So, as far as this sister...maybe she needs to be taken in for a while, and needs her feet washed for a while, and just rest. Are you willing to take her in your home? The bible says that GOD sets the solitary in families.
Yes, we must be led to do this, and bare witness that this is God...not just a religious exercise...but there also must be a willingness. Often, lifting up the prayer is substituted for the laying down of the life, and as God sees the heart, He will not answer the prayer unless the willingness is genuine.
I will not say how many or to who, but this has been a practice in my life; the opening up of my home for the healing and discipleship of the wounded, as it yet is today. We must be led...but I think that in this case, this is exactly what the doctor ordered; The great Physician that is.
I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’
Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [a]take care of You?’
Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’................
@ ginnyrose
Thank you for calling and speaking with me yesterday.
I am very EXHAUSTED, I appreciate the concern and prayers.
I would like to share some things , but first I would like to post a reply to Mr BrotherTom.
@ BrotherTom,
Sir,
When I submitted my post yesterday, I did so because these are earnest questions of mine.
I speak English, I understand English. I am a college graduate. Still, I am not smart enough.
Sir,
Your post has several words I am not familiar with , and I have no clue what they mean. Even after looking up the definition to these words you used, I am still too ignorant to understand the sentences these words are in. I do not understand the following sentences:
===========================================================
It is unthinkable, it is forbidden, and a blasphemous rebuke to God Himself by rejecting the extreme grace of the gift of life itself
I must say that your post has a ring of "Situational Ethics" wrapped up in it; very similar to the perverted doctrines of Bonhoeffer, who in effect saw that offering his own life, committing sin, in a commitment to save others was justified, even noble to the Christian cause.
There have been a number of "substitutionary suicides" in history that may not fall into the category of sin. The most obvious might be when a soldier in battle falls on a hand-grenade in a crowded foxhole. He commits suicide to protect and save others. How would God see this? Maybe differently than the depressed case you offer. Think of all of the Israeli warriors who fell on their sword, [ suicide in battle] rather than endure capture?
I must say that your post has a ring of "Situational Ethics" wrapped up in it; very similar to the perverted doctrines of Bonhoeffer, who in effect saw that offering his own life, committing sin, in a commitment to save others was justified, even noble to the Christian cause.
This is disgusting in it's perverted empathy,and because of an emotional detachment you possess, while yet clearly expressing the context of the torment, and I think it unreal.
It leads me to believe that your post is contrived, in order to get a read on a sense of MORAL RELATIVISM, and take some sort of satisfaction as to the different Biblical responses, knowing that there will be a divided forum over this emotionally charged issue.
So, am I wrong? If so, is this post about you? or is it a vested conundrum designed as a humanistic riddle?
=======================================================
Why is it when people say to their friends, their family, co-workers, neighbors (even if you didn't know/remember their name) , "HEY, Why didn't you say anything?", "I didn't know you needed help!" , "You should have told me you were going to do that!" , "You shouldn't have done that by yourself!" , "Why didn't you ask me?, You know I would have helped!", "well, next time, You better ask ME or someone for HELP!, OK!?" "Now matter what it is, I will do my best to help you."
When someone NEVER asked for help from anyone before, not even to move a full-size couch up a flight of stairs , FINALLY breaks down and asks for help...........the person, or people they turn to and ask help from...... they themselves don't know the answer, nor do they know how to help that person...instead of "looking dumb, or stupid or whatever" and admitting they don't know ...that person laughs and jokes about it, or says "ah, your just seeking attention" , and the person asking for help is disregarded.
Sir,
If a person ( whether it be someone your very close to -your mom, brother, or perhaps a total stranger, you never met before ), ran up to you in the store or on the street, all out of breath, panting, crying asking you " please help, can you help me, I am dying " , would you take them seriously?
What if you couldn't help? Do you know where they need to go for help? If you didn't know what to do, would you disregard their plea for help and not take them serious? or would you do what you could to try to find someone that can or knows how to help?
Sir,
I understand these days some peoples behaviors and actions can be deceiving, they do things just to see how people react.
Just because joe shmo and jesse lynn is like that, doesnt mean everyone is like that too.
Sir ,
Forgive me for being harsh, rude, or mean for my following statment for you:
While you were making it quite clear how politically INcorrect it was for me to submit such questions, and I only did it to stir and rile people up..........I cried, I am still crying. You accuse me of doing something horribly wrong.
WORDS cut , some words CUT DEEPER than others.....
for you to add the following
"I hope I am wrong. "
at the end as your after thought ...given to me as a "band-aid"......sorry, Mister, your words went deeper than the surface... keep your band aid, to me is it worthless.
Sir ,
I AM asking for help, I am dying, I don't want to die.I am scared of death. I have been so sad, so depressed to the point I KNOW if I dont ask for help, this depression is going to swallow me up and kill me.....
If you or anyone else does not understand why or how can I be so sad and depressed, ask me. I have no problem sending text messages or sending e-mails. ( just be warned, you may be reading a very very long novel ) I have no problem sharing ALL the events that took place that led up to this horrible darkness of depression , I have NEVER been this sad and negative before in my life. It scares me. In more ways than one!
Dear sister you wrote :If you or anyone else does not understand why or how can I be so sad and depressed, ask me. I have no problem sending text messages or sending e-mails. ( just be warned, you may be reading a very very long novel ) I have no problem sharing ALL the events that took place that led up to this horrible darkness of depression , I have NEVER been this sad and negative before in my life. It scares me. In more ways than one!
_____________________
I don't know exactly all the details of what your going through but I do understand the pain and darkness you are describing. I went through a time with my own marriage went through some troubles and I too felt as if I had no reason to go on living. All I can tell you is hold tight to the LORD, stay close to HIM. Men will fail you but JESUS never will. I do not want you to feel over whelmed but if you would like to email then my address is in my profile.
God bless
mj
@ brothertom
I quickly glanced at a question you asked, I have not read the whole post , yet I wanted to answer your question...
You asked the following:
==================
"Do you think that he could be subtly planting it in her mind when they talk that ‘if she were to die, then he would be released to marry this other woman?
=============
Out of respect for my husband ,and knowing I have caused my husband enough grief and embarrassment for a lifetime. I believe it would not be wise to post my answer Publicly.
e-mail me if you want
4gvnnot4gtn@Safe-mail.net
@rbanks
PLEASE, with all do respect, my husband IS a Good Christian Man, his heart was hardened towards me, He preaches and teaches the truth of the word to others.
Which is as the Lord ordained him to do.
Marrying me was a mistake, therefore, I am now his punishment for making that mistake.
My husband is not evil. He is a man of God. Men and women of God make mistakes. My husband made a mistake, his mistake doesnt make him less of a man nor does it make him evil.
4gvn-4gtn: Sorry about the my error in trying to unravel the why's of your depression. I had just unwrapped my self from a rather exhaustive study of the issues I wrote about, and frankly had never considered that a woman could consider suicide with the happiness of her cheating husband as the goal. Also, I was intellectually detached from my heart as I was trying to sort this out.
"While you were making it quite clear how politically INcorrect it was for me to submit such questions, and I only did it to stir and rile people up..........I cried, I am still crying. You accuse me of doing something horribly wrong.
WORDS cut , some words CUT DEEPER than others.....
for you to add the following
"I hope I am wrong. "
at the end as your after thought ...given to me as a "band-aid"......sorry, Mister, your words went deeper than the surface... keep your band aid, to me is it worthless."
Do I sense a victim mentality, and some self pity? I really was addressing the concept, not the person...and as I said; I was wrong for that; I apologize and repent as best I can in type. You must however begin to forgive those who have abused and rejected you, fully, and begin again to look to Christ as your healer.
Pity from man is not going to help you, and yes, you may indeed be the victim here, but we must begin to look at faith as the solution, and that goes both ways...in and out of the body. Self-pity is the same sin as pride, as it justifies the sorrow and owns it. Bitterness walks hand in hand with self-pity.
Maybe it would be better to not share all of the events to all comers about the horrors of the events that so wounded you, but to use your energies to forgive and show mercy to the offenders, for if you do not, or cannot, neither will your heavenly Father forgive you!..or can He heal you.
By now you have read my post a couple down, about family, and the solitary. I hope for healing for you, but you must get back up and show mercy to those who have wounded you, and also perhaps you could find a family somewhere that could minister to you, receive you and comfort you...Hope so...Tom
Please everyone, I did NOT submit this post to "bash" , point my finger, place blame nor speak ill of my husband. I am not perfect, I was not perfect when we wed, I was not perfect during our marriage . I am DEFINATELY not perfect now.
My problem and concern is getting OUT OF THIS DARKENED PIT, BEFORE it closes in and sufficates me. \\
"PLEASE, with all do respect, my husband IS a Good Christian Man, his heart was hardened towards me, He preaches and teaches the truth of the word to others.
Which is as the Lord ordained him to do.
Marrying me was a mistake, therefore, I am now his punishment for making that mistake.
My husband is not evil. He is a man of God. Men and women of God make mistakes. My husband made a mistake, his mistake doesnt make him less of a man nor does it make him evil." 4gvn or 4gtn....
I am sorry: ???...This is over my head. We need a local, hands on ministry here to settle this spinning down. Opinions have no power, if there is not faith.
4gvn-or-4gtn,
Don't cry, I take your cries very seriously. I know this is hard for you to believe because we've never met.
Depression is a real thing and it has taken many casualties. But, please don't give up.
I care so much about you. At the risk of completely losing all credibility, I am going to send my phone number to the email address you provided below.
I have time. I'd like to hear your story because it matters. For the sake of one who is precious to the Lord, I'll cancel all my evening plans just to listen to you. Even if you want to call and just weep. Jesus wept. He knows how painful this world experience can be. Please call.
If I weren't in this body and a spirit with unlimited access to move through space and time, I'd be right there with you now. I'm trying hard to ignore the fact that other folks are reading this post, besides you. Because, right now, in the midst of your pain and depression, you are all that matters to me.
You could easily be suspicious or think: "This person is only reaching back because I am hanging from a cliff and in crises. Why does it take a crisis to get someone to care and reach back? Why can't strangers who are Christians reach back when there is no crisis?"
I am sorry that this is the first time I've reached out to you. I only just learned about your pain. And I admire your utter courage in sharing this horrible experience you are going through with others. I'd like to listen to you. No other agenda, than to listen.
Please call me.
Love-YOU-in-Christ,
KP
iam not asking for pity.
i am asking for help,
tom sir i think you mis understood my band aid response
UGH
FIDDLE STICKS AND GUM DROPS
UGH
I am going to bed.
Brothertom, with all do respect, this is a very delicate situation. I do not know of all the details, but can definitely sense the weightiness of the issue. Ecclesiastes 3 shows us there is a time for everything. A time to weep and a time to love.
Yesterday at my place of employment, someone professed Christ. Hours later, a man came through in an airplane bragging about how many women he has slept with outside of his wife. I kid you not he said "If she started today, she wouldn't be able to catch me if she kept on until the day she died." My heart broke at this and I immediately left the room. Some marriages are in shambles and need to be dealt with carefully. In love, brother.
I can relate to you, though.
Hope to talk to you soon.
I'm sending you an email.
Good night,
Love-in-Christ,
KP
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
"For better or for worse - in sickness and in health - till death do us part"
Sister, you only know in part what I'm getting at.
I married a man that was a Bible College graduate. A Solomon. A man that could gather a crowd in no time because of his wisdom and Biblical fluency. A man that could pop up with an analogy out of thin air to explain ANY Bible passage or any solution to anyone's problems and yet the analogy would always be 100% Biblical. He was the Apologist of all Apologists. A Teacher of Teachers. He convinced me while I was still in Bible College that we should be married and because of his great spiritual wisdom and extrodinary knowledge of the Bible, I believd him. I was only 3 yrs old in The LORD.
I came home from a Bible class on Romans after we were married and he was in my cloths. He ran and hid in taking a shower, hoping I didn't see it.
I waited until just before bedtime to gently ask him, "Do you want to talk about it?" He said it was something that had a grip on him since he was 9. I understood because of his horrendous childhood and he said he'd be alright and I believed him because he had so much wisdom.
A few yrs past and next it was catching him with pot. Then DWI. And again, gently trying to talk him out of these things and thinking I had by his own admission.
[correction] 13 yrs later, he left our bed and stayed in his own den. At that point, I knew he wanted me dead, but I stayed with him.
Each year got worse until finally, I was disabled and couldn't get out of the house and was at his mercy to provide. I was his prisoner and he would do subtle things that I knew were to cause me to die.
I was a member of this forum at that time and one night, Satan came on me so strongly to take all of the pills in the house. It was the strongest urging I'd ever felt in my life. It was Satan and there isn't a doubt about it. SO convincing - But GOD stopped it in sort order. The fear of GOD is Good, The Word says - and I wouldn't be here if it weren't so.
My husband was doing everything on earth to get rid of me but I had no way to fulfill his desire to either die or leave. I had no income and he wanted everyone to believe he was a Christian, so he wouldn't leave me or make his attempts to have me die so obvious that the police or anyone else would find out, so that he could keep up his Christian image in front of everyone else.
Finally, after 30 yrs of loving him despite it all but still finding life unbearable, my Church and Christian friends by GOD's Providence, opened the doors of Heaven for me to escape and it thrilled my husband that now, he'd have the house to himself to 'come out of the closet' and do anything under the sun that he wanted, without conscience whatsoever of seeing me, the only form of conscience left in that house, from his perspective. By that time, there wasn't a sin that he was participating in and some that I can't post.
IF GOD had wanted me to stay - I would have. I had literally dozens of righteous Saints praying for me and GOD knew I wouldn't leave unless it was confirmed by them ALL. My Pastor and everyone that's known me for years.
I'm saying this because, no matter what you've done - your husband isn't right to make you feel that your marriage was a "mistake". Marriage is a Commitment - as those vows say above. I was there to help my husband for his Salvation's sake - even if it killed me. That's LOVE and THAT's Marriage -- and That's What Your Husband Should have done with you.
You can call your man "holy" all that you choose to - but holy is as holy does to their spouse - for better or for Worse!
I love you more than I can say Sister and no matter what sins you commited while married - they could never in a million years compare to the sins I saw my husband commit and yet I was commited to stay with him until 'he' wanted me to leave for his own freedom to go his own way.
GOD Help you!
I may not be posting anymore after this embarrassing post but don't you dare kill yourself.
Oh, and about our "childhoods" - I was tossed from home to home - a total of 8 homes and never in my life have I been in a home where I was wanted or loved - quite the contrary.
I know Satan's voice very well - especially from a single digit age, where the thought hit me that I didn't want to live very long ... but I had a heart for others' suffering all of my life and 'that' was what kept me alive and knowing that picture of Jesus on the wall since I was 3 was of a Real GOD that loved me. Don't know how I knew that - there were no Christians in my life until I was 23. I'll be 60 next March.
Shalom to you, with His Love, Sister.
I just wanted to add: that I haven't and won't divorse him, though I know I'll never see him again - because divorse would give Satan the rights over him, for him to give up completely and possibly cause worse to happen to him or cause him to marry someone else and put her through the same. If he wants a divorse, he'll have to get one himself and he knows that. He knows he's loved and we pray that's enough to bring Him to Christ one day.
Just wish you were given the same chance.
Dear Sister 4gvn,
We prayed for you today in our house group thousand of miles away in the UK. I am sure here on this forum are some wise sisters who care about you and contacted you already. It is unwise for a man to contact her in private.
Would the rest of us brethren please leave this dear Sister alone and not try to publically analyse her problem. I am sure you have good intentions but it can be like acid to wounds. Let us just pray for her that God will send the help she needs. An internet forum is not fit to publically counsel people in such a vulnerable and potentially dangerous situation.
Could the moderators please intervene?
Dear Brother NarrowPath, I pray I haven't offended you with my last post. Nor anyone else. I've spoken to our Sister a while back, but have no way to contact her anymore to tell her what I felt to say.
I have always felt that, when our Brethren were in the arenas with the lions, and heard of the stories of how one would place themselves over another, so that the lion would get them instead - that the lion could also represent the enemy and we need to be willing to lay down ourselves for anyone that's in his sights.
If the Moderators lock this thread - I can only ask that they first delete my post, for reasons I can't say.
Thank you and again, my apologies if I've offended.
Dear Jesus-is-God,
There is nothing to be ashamed of by your post. It took great courage for you to write what you've written. May your husband repent and turn back to you.
Dear Michelle,
Trust in God. He is your saviour. Pls do not let Jesus die in vain for you. He took your place on the cross.
I am going to pray for you shortly.
@Jesus is God,
Thank you
I apologize .
your very brave.
i am speechless
Thank you, learn, for praying for him!!
Sister 4gvn - when my husband first met me, he called me "Little Much Afraid" after the book, Hinds Feet on High Places.
Sis, "all things work together for the Good ... for vs 29"
and I wish I could just tell your husband that with the nightmare of life, it made me press in more and more into Him and got stronger and stronger - but I had a choice - to either blame my husband, if I wanted to fall and I knew I had that choice - but Jesus - Oh Jesus, is so Good.
He loves us Sis! We can depend and draw on Him without Limits.
I'll continue to pray you're well ~ in His Love :)
The JOY of The LORD 'is' our Strength!!!
actually, ,
I am very speechless.
i honestly beleive noone cared about me , why would they, .
Everyones words touched me, including urs brothertom.
As I read everyone caring responses, and written in love, I know you all are sincere, I am sorry.
I am tired of crying, ginnyrose, I heard what you were telling me yesterday, I also listened. But I still, I am having such a hard time believing I am allowed to go to Him.
I cannot grasp this, and its something i long for and I know I so deperately need................
I am sorry, I been crying so much today. When I cry, my head hurts, when this happens, I have grave headaches to the point both my eyes get swollen and bruised ( as if someone had hit me in both eyes with the end of a wooden baseball bat) , other times my ear bleeds because of the headaches.
I need to lay down and rest.
*I need to lay down and rest.*
Yes Amen, Rest is Good and you have Zero to say "I'm sorry" for.
Thank you for talking with Ginnyrose :) ~ Bless you both!
Threw on some Pandora while on the computer, and Hillsong's "From the Inside Out" came on. Sister, if you have not heard it, hear it. Sometimes we underestimate a songs meaning when we listen to it. Read the lyrics, and praise your Lord and Savior!
A thousand times I've failed
Still your mercy remains
And should I stumble again
Still I'm caught in your grace
Everlasting, Your light will shine when all else fades
Never ending, Your glory goes beyond all fame
My heart and my soul, I give You control
Consume me from the inside out Lord
Let justice and praise, become my embrace
To love You from the inside out
Your will above all else, my purpose remains
The art of losing myself in bringing you praise
Everlasting, Your light will shine when all else fades
Never ending, Your glory goes beyond all fame
My heart, my soul, Lord I give you control
Consume me from the inside out Lord
Let justice and praise become my embrace
To love You from the inside out
Everlasting, Your light will shine when all else fades
Never ending, Your glory goes beyond all fame
And the cry of my heart is to bring You praise
From the inside out, O my soul cries out
My Soul cries out to You
My Soul cries out to You
to You, to You
My heart, my soul, Lord I give you control
Consume me from the inside out Lord
Let justice and praise become my embrace
To love You from the inside out
Everlasting, Your light will shine when all else fades
Never ending, Your glory goes beyond all fame
And the cry of my heart is to bring You praise
From the inside out, O my soul cries out
Everlasting, Your light will shine when all else fades
Never ending, Your glory goes beyond all fame
And the cry of my heart is to bring You praise
From the inside out, O my soul cries out
From the inside out, O my soul cries out
From the inside out, O my soul cries out.
Thank you dvndsn
@ Jesus is God,
It was a wonderful blessing to be able to talk with you last night. It felt good to laugh . Thank you . I hope one day I will be able to show and give the unconditional care, concern and love to one that is in need as you have for me.
Dear 4gvn-or-4gtn
I did just now read all this post....
Dear sister, I will close you in my heart and prayers.
Shalom,
browny
4gvn-or-4gtn,
Precious sister, I just wanted to let you know that I was praying earlier and you came to mind so I wanted to let you know that you were on my heart and I took your case before the throne.
I was literally in the same situation that you are in many years ago and the Lord walked me through it. Since He is 'no respecter of persons' He will walk you through as well. I can see that He is already directing your steps, because your steps came through here, where there are a lot of loving people. Praise the Lord!
Much love!
Thank you Lord for this thread. I see more and more of You in it. :)
[by 4gvn-or-4gtn on 2012/7/18 16:48:04
I am tired of crying, ginnyrose, I heard what you were telling me yesterday, I also listened. But I still, I am having such a hard time believing I am allowed to go to Him.
I cannot grasp this, and its something i long for and I know I so deperately need................]
---
I'm currently reading in the bible where Jesus was praying in Gethsemane. Thought I shared with you this 'article' that explained Jesus's anguish there.
http://www.gotquestions.org/sweat-blood-Jesus.html
May this help you realize that you are allowed to go to Him.
Also may I suggest this link (pls read Blayne's post--its the 3rd one).
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45833&forum=35&2
Dear learn, Thank you so much for posting the link to Blaynes' testimony.
I found SI in 2005 and I'd say that that one post has become an SI Classic to me now. Absolutely.
Very grateful to him and you for posting it.
If it doesn't move a heart, it's time to take a meat tenderizer to it.
Blessings to Michelle as well!
Jesus-Is-God,
You wrote:
"holy is as holy does"
What a short and sweet explanation of how holiness manifests in our lives!
Also, via your posts you appear to be one of the few authentic Christians I've been blessed to come across in my life. Not many Christians love the Lord enough to faithfully "confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed" (James 5:16).
In spite of this calling from James, Christians of this age are notorious for hiding the truth of their lives and presenting only a "Sunday Morning" version of their faith. And all of this spiritual "posturing" has proven to have a tumultuous effect on us when we are enduring our most intense trials.
Jesus-Is-God,
Self-disclosure is one of the most powerful and loving tools we can use in the sincere attempt to alleviate the suffering of our beloved. The evil which you have suffered sounds dreadful! The enemy attempted to destroy you - body, soul, and (if he had been successful) spirit.
Yet, though the suffering sin your life intended to do harm to you, "God intended it for good, in order to preserve a numerous people, as He is doing today"
(Genesis 50: 20). Sharing your painful experiences with our beloved sister has delivered comfort and even joy to her spirit at such a time as this!
Isn't it amazing grace to see how the Lord uses our very suffering for good? If we endure it through Him.
Love-in-Christ,
KP
@ learn thank you for the link
@ everyone , thank you for your prayers. Just knowing that someone is actually praying for me, really truly absolutely makes a difference and means so so so so much to me! Really.
@ ginnyrose & Jesus is God,
I want to let you know for the next several weeks, and probably months,I will not be able to communicate with you via internet ( e-mail, this forum , etc. ) this includes telephone ( I have a Google Voice phone number - and use my laptop as a telephone ).
This morning when I went to turn my computer on, it wouldn't turn on. Where I am staying, often the circuit breakers need to be reset. In the middle of the night, the power went out and when it did, the outlet the laptop was plugged into must have had a short in the wiring, because the whole outlet was blackened and the outlet no longer works. I wasn't using a power surge protector when charging my laptop, apparently when the outlet blew, it fried the battery to my laptop.
I tried to plug it into another outlet, even removed the battery and plugged it in, and it won't turn on at all.
I needed to let you know what's going on so you do not worry to much about me, I am using a computer and accessing the internet at the public library right now. There are 3 libraries within 5 miles from me, 2 of them are about 2 miles away. I rode my bicycle here, it didn't take as long as I thought it would riding over here. I need to remember to bring WATER with me next time!! It is about 103 today, but with the slight breeze it feels like its about 97-98.
It is NOT often I leave the house, so I do not know how often I will make it to the library. It is a daily struggle for me just to get out of bed. Even more of a struggle to walk out the front door.
It was difficult for me to leave the house today and come here, but I knew I HAD to.
The library has a time limit on the computer/internet accessing (sometimes you may have to wait for one to become available ). Anyways, I only have a few minutes remaining, so I better end this so I can submit and post.
Oh, the Library has WEIRD hours:
\t
Monday\t1pm - 8pm
Tuesday\t10am - 5pm
Wednesday 10am - 5pm
Thursday 1pm - 8pm
Friday\tClosed
Saturday 1pm - 5pm
Sunday\tClosed
Thank you again EVERYONE for praying for me!!!!!!!
4gvn,
You can call me anytime. I keep my cell-phone nearby at all times. I will keep calling you perchance I may be able to get through sometime.
I am glad you are going to the library and access their computer...
Do not forget you have people praying for you. And that Jesus' love for you far exceeds that of any other human being on this planet. I am praying you will experience his redemptive love that will also strengthen you - whatever the devil puts in front of you to trip you up.
God bless..
ginnyrose
Michelle and JIG--no problem.
post deleted as i don't think a public computer allows you to use skype.sorry.
Dear Michelle,
Will be praying for you.
You are so loved by the Lord!
Shalom,
browny
Michelle, Hope you don't mind if I just say one or two words to JIG here...
Dear JIG
Thank you for sharing your story with us.
I have seen some of the same events in my relationship with my ex-husband. And I am still praying for him to come back to the Lord.
He was a preacher once as you know... And it hurts to see him in this situation.
Thank you again for all the encouraging words you have given to Michelle (and me), also in the last email you'v send to me... dear and beloved sister...
Shalom,
browny
God Bless your heart sister, and may the power of Christ rest upon you and to all.
David C
It is very good to see the concern for one who is suffering so much.
But, as usual, I am again saddened to see how we tend to attack each other, even in the midst of that anguished one.
Also, I am saddened by how we tend to advance doctrine as though it will touch a heart. The Scriptures are a living Word. Can we not find loving Words of our Lord and of our Father to restore a broken heart?
If Jesus strictly adhered to the doctrines in Scriptures to answer their doctrinal question, the woman caught in adultery would have been stoned. But gracious Jesus looked at something altogether different. If He had simply and equally condemned the others with Scripture, they would have been busy throwing their stones at one another.
But He asked them to look within themselves and then have only mercy and compassion on her. Did she know she was doing wrong and worthy of stoning in John 8? Yes, they all knew that, even Jesus. But the murderously violent mob was turned into a merciful, if not compassionate, gathering. How? Not by giving the obvious and clear answer to what He was asked. And in His way, a sinful, despairing woman was turned into a loving, cleansed child of our Father.
Those in despair need one thing. Not to hear our opinions and dogma. Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice." When we hear His voice, it comes with peace, joy, love, and hope. We often can not help them with that, because we can not hear His voice? And if we can not hear His voice, what can we offer but our dogma?
Jesus said, "He who does not love Me does not keep My Words, and the Word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me, "John 14:24.
We must learn the holy art of communing with our Father and His Son in order to pass on His inner voice to those suffering in darkness, and then teach them to hear their master's voice.
When we speak for our God, there must be a blending of the logos, written, Word of God with the rhema, spoken Word of God, in order for His Word to be a living Word.
Paul said, "Our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance, "1 Thes 1:5.
I always hope that my Words are mere reflections of His, carrying His love, hope, peace. Otherwise they are empty, as am I. Our Words need to come from the Spirit and go out from with His Spirit. Then healing will come quickly.
The Lord bless Michelle, and us all, with that healing voice from above.
Dear Sister,
Walk, run, or ride your bike to the nearest woman's shelter. Your husband is not your problem, let others pray for him now. God can heal you and restore you to a place of clear-thinking, mental health, and joy.
Dear brethren and sisters in Christ.I am new to this, and I'm not always available to get on SI as much as I like to. I've not read all the posts but I have meditated on this for a while now and I am disturbed. I'm glad to see that everything with our precious sister was resolved. Having been one close to taking my own life, I know well the painful experiences and agonies of nights gone by thinking of how to end my life the suffering of thinking I was all alone. But dear sister, you are a servant of God and His Word said in Matthew 28 He would never leave you, nor forsake you, and in 1 Corinthians 10 He said He would never suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able. But I am burdened that there are some uncertain on the issue of whether suicide is a sin or not. There has been some great saints of God answer this already but for my conscience sake, I have to clarify. If at any point I step out of the Word or have a bad attitude please correct me with Scripture. IS SUICIDE A SIN? Yes! WHY? Because God plainly said in Exodus 20:13-'Thou shalt not Kill.' The Scripture says in 1 Corinthians 3:17-17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. The Scripture is plain on the subject. Killing is sin, whether yourself or someone else and makes you a murderer. The Bible says in 1 John 3 that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Will suicide be forgiven? No. Some might say but what about where Jesus said that all manner of sin and blasphemy would be forgiven except the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost in Matthew 12? He did say that. But He also said in Luke 13. But except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. You can't repent if your dead. The Bible says if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and again that with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Only the live can confess their sins. The dead confess nothing because they're dead. Yes, the sister needs our prayers, and our compassion but she also asked us a question that if we don't answer her Biblically the blood will be on our hands. It is vital that we study to shew ourselves approved unto God. The Bible says in 1 Peter 3:15- to be ready to give every man in answer. If we can't answer people with the Bible here on earth, we won't be able to give an answer to God on Judgment Day. For the ones that question whether salvation and judgment is based on your works or faith, the Bible makes it clear. By grave are ye saved through FAITH. How do you get faith? Romans 10:17-Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the Word of God. What does Word of God(Jesus) say? John 14:15- If Ye love me, keep my commandments! Faith in Christ saves you, obedience to Him is what keeps you that way. Love everyone, God bless.
Hi Michelle,
So good you did made it to the Libary to let us know about the situation with your computer.
And especially about how you are doing at the moment.
Hope you find the strenght to go to the LIbrary and send us a update now and then about how you are doing and feeling dear sister.
You have dear brothers and sisters here who care for you and you are LOVED!! DEEPLY LOVED!!! And what's much more you are LOVED by you CREATOR, THE GIVER OF LIFE, YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER, HIS EYES ARE UPON YOU AND HIS EARS ARE HEARING YOUR VOICE. HE WILL SEE YOU TRUE DEAR SISTER. TRY TO SHELTER UNDER HIS WINGS IN THIS STRONG STORM.
May the peace of God be with you and fill your heart and mind In a new way.
Love to you,
browny.
Bless you, Browny. No, I didn't know about what you told about in your post to me. I'm So very sorry, my dear Sister.
I was just reading Jackie Kenaston's post and have held the hand of other Sister's who's husband died and wept with them and felt their pain and wanted to just be there for them.
Sister, they have support groups for those who's spouse have gone to Heaven. There's so many cards of condolences and so many that understand and empathise and most Saintly women go on to serve The LORD until GOD calls them Home as well, just like Sister Gwen Wilkerson.
I've had Sisters in Christ who's Godly husbands died suddenly in their own homes without any warning. And Brothers as well - like our new member here, "newcenturian".
To love someone 'unconditionally' should be the story of every marriage.
But what most people don't understand is the excruciating pain that we that have lost husbands to "spiritual death" go through. I don't 'envy' those who's spouse have gone to Heaven ahead of them - but I do feel that we that have lost husbands to spiritual death are hurting just as badly.
The spouses of those that have died and gone to Heaven have at the least, that comfort of knowing Where their spouse is. The Joys that their spouse are before The Throne of our Magnificent GOD and Christ --- but we have no consolation.
I suppose most people think that because our spouses weren't 'good spouses' that we don't hurt just as badly if not more than those who's spouses have gone Home. There's no 'consolation' for us.
Bless you MUCH, Browny. The LORD Bless your wonderful ministry richly and continue to give you miraculous strength for all that you do for others in your ministry.
To come through what you have, with the cancer, surgeries and all and than only have your heart set to serve others through your website and tract ministry... teaching those that don't know how to read or to get interested in The Word is one of the finest ministries I've seen, as far as where your focus is... The Word! So proud of you and to call you Sister. There are few like you and forgive me if that seems exaggerated, but your focus on The Word is not the central thrust of many women or even men's ministries.
I haven't been able to get onto Dad's computer for a while now. It's not the most reliable means of communicating. /:
Yes, you and your ministry make me smile a lot and I Thank you for that, very much. You're a special 'inspirational' lady and our GOD Bless you for all that you are doing.
Looking forward to meeting you, One Fine Day [just got tears typing that part.] That's our Blessed 'Hope'.
We'll pray one for anothers' that they'll be There as well, one fine day. Battling for their souls in prayer and leaving the rest to our omniscient GOD and praying comfort for each other -- with eyes Fixed on our Husband in Heaven, that's waiting for that day when He can hug & comfort us, in Person.
Love from my heart of hearts, with many 'Thanks'.
This must be 4gvn's husband's post! Sounds just like him!
Michelle, DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS DEVIL! PLEASE, ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME? Sandra
Please, mods, is it possible for you to delete in_the-shado's account and his post? I understand he likely will come back and register under a new name, but still...He is AWFUL!
ginnyrose
This thread is being locked now we are glad a sister could be helped in this way in prayer, love and counsel. But in the future we do not handle such things on the forums here but rather want to forward anyone to call people who help similar situations:
CRISIS LINES
The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (8255). They are available 24 hours.
Suicide:Suicide National Hotline
1.800.SUICIDE (1.800.784.2433)
National Suicide Hotline
1.888.248.2587
National Youth Crisis & Suicide Hotline
1.800.621.4000
National Hopeline Network
1-800-SUICIDE, 1-800-784-2433
After a twenty-five second recorded message followed by five seconds of recorded music, you are quickly connected to a caring, non-judgemental human being.
New Hope- 24 Hour Crisis prevention
1-714-new-hope
Covenant House Nineline
800-999-9999
www.covenanthouse.org
Crisis and support for youth. Help is also available for adults
American Suicide Survival Line
888-SUICIDE, 888-784-2433 (toll free)
24 Hour Crisis for people who are suicidal or who are suffering the pain of depression.Confidentiality is assured.
The Samaritans Suicide Hotlines
617-247-0220 ; 212-673-3000 ; 401-272-4044
E-mail: jo@samaritans.org
www.mentalhelp.net/samaritans/ (UK web site)
www.samaritansnyc.org (New York web site)
HelpLine USA 24/7 Help For All Types Of Problems
1-561-615-4029
Contact USA Couseling & Crisis Line (Located in Dallas Texas)
972-233-2233 24 Hours All Problems
In North Texas Dial 211 For Help ( First Call For Help )
1-800-656-HOPE: RAINN - The Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network http://www.rainn.org/ provides 24-hour crisis lines for survivors of abuse and rape to talk to someone confidentially. You can be connected automatically to a local sexual assault crisis center's hotline by calling this number in the U. S.
1-800-799-SAFE is the national domestic violence hotline in the U.S., where you can find programs, hotlines, and shelters for women who are being abused
Friendship Line CESP Call after 8am California Time toll-free Friendship Line: 1-800-971-0016
The Friendship Line - Need to talk?
Let your phone keep you connected!
this thread is locked.
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