Info on America's Precarious Economy (Audio) ...

Greetings Mishpachah! ... Mishpachah is Hebrew for "Family" ...i've been very quiet since the end of last year because Holy Spirit keeps impressing on me Ezek. 3: 26 ..."And I will make thy tongue cleave to the roof of thy mouth, that thou shalt be dumb, and shalt not be to them a reprover: for they are a rebellious house" ...So needless to say i've been eerily quiet, but in this quiet down time i can tell you that Holy Spirit isn't being quiet within me, for as per Jer. 33:3 (my lifes verse) He's telling me a whole bunch of what i knew not regarding how America's idol of Economy is destroyed ... Americans, including American Christianity, had no idea the consequences of our either taking, or our allowing God to be taken out of our everyday governance back in the 60's ... It was a horrible, horrible mistake that has taken almost 50 years of greedy, satanically inspired moral and ethical deregulations to come to what it's about to manifest itself as now ... Holy Spirit is teaching me an awful lot about money, finance, and safer havens for wealth, which is a real mystery to me for i'm far from wealthy ... i keep sensing in my spirit that where He's taking me now has something to do with provisionary stewardship, my being used of Him as a trusted conduit of material blessing to His Commision, Church and Charity in the economic severity soon to be upon us ... i don't really know as of yet why He has me where i am now, but i do know that when He tells me to share i'll be sharing for Holy Spirit also is impressing Ezek. 3:27 on me ..."But when I speak with thee, I will open thy mouth, and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; He that heareth, let him hear; and he that forbeareth, let him forbear: for they are a rebellious house".Shortly after 9/11 Holy Spirit said to me that it's meaning was that God has judged the idol of our Economy and that it is as completely destroyed as the World Trade Centers ... That He judged our idol of our Military and that it is crippled ... But that He has in essence spared our Government because we in essence treat it the same way that we treat Him, either we don't believe in it at all, or we only seek it if we're in some type of dire circumstance, and will curse it if it doesn't meet up to our expectations ... Now i totally understand why the world can't understand this, but i was at a loss why the house of God, especially the priests/preachers of God didn't/doesn't see this ... As of late, in light of what Holy Spirit is showing/teaching me now, i'd been diligently seeking our Lord as to why i seem to be the only one in my imediate circle of fellow saints to see/understand/forsee the signs of impending chastisement that seem so blatantly screaming out for spiritual recognition ... Then Holy Spirit impressed Ezek.12: 2 on me ..."Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house" ...This in a nutshell, from this sobering discussion between a group of (except for the Asian man) seemingly secular non believing economist/financial advisors/investors, is how and why America's idol of Economy is about to implode under our top heavy crushing weight of unGodly greed debt ... For any who chooses to "hear", listen as to why American's, both sinner and Christian, have refused to wake up from the opiate of greed, and still refuses to do so ... God's about to give us "cold turkey" saints ... i pray that you're ready! ...AHEAD OF THE TRENDhttp://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2005-0122-2.mp3I'm not posting these for pro or con discussion ad-nauseum, for i'm not concerened with whether you believe it or not that America is headed for Economic chastisement ... i'm just strewing seeds here, and if they find fertile ground in you may Holy Spirit shine His enlightenment, His water, and make it grow ...Riverside Conversations (2/2003):If you haven't seen and heard it, you're in for a thought-provoking experience. Jim Rogers and his dinner guests Marc Faber, and Daniel Yergin explore global markets today and into the future ...Click on ... Video: Riverside Conversations ... upper right hand side of web page ... It starts in german but the conversation is in english ...http://www.vpro.nl/programma/tegenlicht/afleveringen/10443446/Deflationary Depression" - 3 INTERVIEWShttp://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2003/Prechter.htm"Infectious Greed: How Deceit and Risk Corrupted the Financial Markets"http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2003/Partnoy.htmSOCIAL SECURITYhttp://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2004/Stormtracks.htmlJohn Rubino, Author"Strategies for the End of the Housing Bubblehttp://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2004/Rubino.htmlTHE DANGER OF DERIVATIVES (2nd PART)http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2004/Leeb.htmlPS - i'm not frequenting this site at all as much as i did IN 2004 ... i'm again actively pursuing the publication of "The Called" (which i believe is key in my future)https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2289&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go... and am way to busy in the present direction Holy Spirit has me in ... But rest assured that when He tells me to proclaim again, i'll be posting what i hear Holy Spirit telling me to say ... i love you all in the one and only perfect love that is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit! ... Please remember me in prayer, as i do some of you individually, and all SI collectively ... His will be done! ... Whatever it is, His perfect will be done! ... In Jesus name ... Amen

Here's another website on a brother that lives over in Maryland on the topic of our economy. This is written more from an economics perspective but Mark has a lot of good stuff on his website.http://www.markswatson.com/international_1.htm

Along these lines, David Wilkerson has written an excellent book on the coming economic crisis in America. It is titled 'America's Last Call' and in it he lays out a compelling case from Scripture, it is well worth a read. There was also a follow-up book called 'God's plan to protect His people in the Coming Depression". Here's a link to his site where you can get his books;World ChallengeIn Christ,Ron

As strange and as difficult as this may be able to be percieved since the deregulation of God out of the American society in the 60's, His influence over the ethics and morality of the subsequent Godless generations of younger business movers and shakers is only becoming horribly evident now in all of the corporate/Wall Street scandals that are coming to light since the S&L's some 20 yeras ago ... American business now is pretty much in the hands of a bunch of greedy, lying, scheming parasites who will do whatever it takes to get rich, stay rich, and keep afloat this debt servicing so called economy that they/we've trapped ourselves in ... It's all one huge bubble that's desperately attempting to stay clear of anything that will make it POP! ... Do you know what makes me not cheat my fellow man ... FEAR OF GOD, instilled in me as a child! ... Very wicked things occur without fear of God ... I'm sure that those of you who have an understanding of what this post is about, know that the S&L's seem like small potatoes in light of the recent discovered shenanigans of Enron, World Com and Fannie and Freddie. "In the first years of the Bush administration, some of America’s most prominent corporate executives cashed out billions of dollars in stock and stock options before driving their companies to ruin through fraud and bankruptcy. In their wake they left a tangle of lost jobs, depleted pensions, and shattered lives". He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church, "America is about to take one huge tumble" ... My question is, "Will you tumble with her?My advice to any sinner, or backslidden saint, is to REPENT & GET RIGHT WITH GOD RIGHT NOW! ... For it is He, and He alone, that will be the only One capable of supplying your needs thru this time of the Refiner's fire ... Pss.9[10] And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.Pss.37[25] I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.America's economy has been sustained on the floatsom of magically providing credit and repackaging, selling and then re-servicing that newer debt, which even if you can't comprehend the depth of intricasies of what this means, it simply means that say America suffers a devestating earthquake in the right place (primarily NY and/or LA), or another devestating terrorist attack in downtown Manhattan, and that causes major defaults in debt repayments, it will cause a domino effect in that our entire economy is based on every other bank owing every other bank, with no banks holding enough reserve cash anymore in case of a panicked public making a run on any bank to get their deposits out ... Do you know why this will happen, because your precious money is not sitting in the bank, it's all loaned out to a now irresponsible, unregulated big business class who's doing all sorts of immoral and unethical dealings with it that prior to the go-go 80's would have sent them straight to jail and public humiliation ... Not anymore ... America's precarious economy now is basically based on a non stop shuffling of debt payments, interrupt that shuffle and economic chaos will insue ... The following Audio interview will give you some indication of what i'm saying ...Nomi Prins, Author"Other People's Money: The Corporate Mugging of America http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2005/Prins.htmlAnd if your hope and trust is in so called Social Security take a listen to this, and then place your trust into His Everlasting Arm Security ...February 5Select an Audio FormatReal Player l WinAmp l Windows Media l mp3http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/2005.htmlSocial Security - Trust Fund or Ponzi?Market Anomalies - The Approaching StormThe Gathering StormFinancial Sense NewshourSpecial Roundtable - AMERICA IN CHAOShttp://www.financialsense.com/Experts/roundtable/021905.htmlListening to these exposes reminded me of these scriptures ..."Forasmuch therefore as your treading is upon the poor, and ye take from him burdens of wheat: ye have built houses of hewn stone, but ye shall not dwell in them; ye have planted pleasant vineyards, but ye shall not drink wine of them. For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins: they afflict the just, they take a bribe, and they turn aside the poor in the gate from their right" ... Amos.5:11,12"Shall I count them pure with the wicked balances, and with the bag of deceitful weights? For the rich men thereof are full of violence, and the inhabitants thereof have spoken lies, and their tongue is deceitful in their mouth" ... Mic.6: 12,13"And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation. There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken. The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully. And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD ... Ezek.22: 6-31

While we can't deny the melancholy music we are hearing, we also can't deny it's hopeful counterpoint. Some of us were merchants who set sail in big ships; you put to sea to do business in faraway ports. Out at sea we saw GOD in action, saw his breathtaking ways with the ocean: With a word HE called up the wind--an ocean storm, towering waves!We shot high in the sky, then the bottom dropped out; our hearts were stuck in our throats. We were spun like a top, we reeled like drunks, we didn't know which end was up.Then we called out to GOD in our desperate condition; he got us out in the nick of time. He quieted the wind down to a whisper, put a muzzle on all the big waves. And we were so glad when the storm died down,and he led us safely back to harbor.So thank GOD for his marvelous love, for his miracle mercy to the children he loves.Lift high our praises when the people assemble,shout Hallelujah when the elders meet!...from Psalm 107After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”Through the many fearful times ahead for this nation, let's remember that God has established an everlasting covenant, not with the United States of America, but with the Seed and children of Abraham. "If my people, who are called by my name..."Blessings,MC

Thankyou Br. Mike, your thoughts reflect Scripture, where the curses come so also does the blessings. There will always be Light in the midst of the darkness.God Bless In ChristJeff

Brothers Mike and Jeff,i too agree that "where the curses come so also does the blessings" for i personally expect nothing else from our Lord in the midst of calamity" and that "there will always be Light in the midst of the darkness", which is why i balanced out the gloom report with ...Pss.9[10] And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.Pss.37[25] I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.But the gist of this thread, and what i'm sharing with any who might be interested, is how and what happens in the land when the only representative of LIght (Christianity) either allows its wattage to be greatly dimmed by adoptive apostate behaviour, or pulls a bushel basket over itself and remains self contained behind it's own four walls ... i for one am always amazed at how quickly and often so many saints i know, preachers especially, will quote 2Chr. 7:14 in word (no negative reflection intended to you brother Mike) but not in deed ... In my own experience with the pastor our Lord has set me under he'll spout 2 Chron in a heartbeat, but when our Lord sent me with a message of his taking leadership toward this humbling/prayer/seeking/turning via the admonition of Joel chapters 1 & 2 to church leadership first weeping between the porch and the altar to hear from on High, then calling us all to solemn assembly ... Well suffice it to say that hasn't happened yet ... But i have no doubt that it will soon, and not only at my church ... So as my blessed Mother always says, "IF is the biggest word in the English language" ...IF ... #1 - my people ... which are called by my name ... shall humble themselves ...#2 - and pray ... #3 - and seek my face ...#4 - and turn from their wicked ways (REPENT) ...THEN ...#1 - will I hear from heaven ...#2 - and will forgive their sin ...#3 - and will heal their land.We, the Church in America, are in His sight a "rebellious house" ... Voluntary repentance ain't even on our agenda, for we are rich and increased with goods and in need of nothing, and a great majority of Church leadership can't even begin to fathom getting down on the floor, weeping between porch and altar, for our much, much needed RE-AWAKENING experience from Holy Spirit ... But history shows that when our long season of sin (for it has it's own rewards) finally catches up with us with no way out other than God we either seek Him or curse Him ... Praise God that He's in the business of weeding out the former from the latter ... Why is it that being thrown into panic seems to be the only way for us to be slapped back to spiritual sobriety? ... But in the meanwhile when God sends His warnings to what's ahead we somehow either soften the message to a more comfortable rationalization, dismis it as the rantings of some over zealous religious loony, or just out right kill the messenger ... God's faithful remnant may in fact fare better in a chastisement situation, but as the history of Israel shows even they couldn't escape it's affects altogether ... i don't know about anybody else, but these present days are driving me closer and closer in holy repentance and obedience to the Rock of my salvation, for it's becoming more and more important for me to be spiritually clear/clean in His presence ... Amen

Also Br. Rahman:Your thoughts are in line with Scripture. The prophets of old preached gloom more than anything else. What can be learned from this Scriptural precept?God BlessIn ChristJeff

Brothers,I wasn't disagreeing. I hope I wasn't appearing naive or flippant either. Also, please don't equate my response to your thread as a feeble need to hear some empty comfort about God's financial "blessing". I hold that the cross bore the blessings of the Old Testament as promised in the person of Christ. I read the information with sincere interest. I respect the knowledge and research put into your post and appreciate the seriousness of it's message. In fact, I think your message that we have grown fat and greedy needs to be heard as clearly as the denouncements of homosexuality and abortion. Not enough light is shown on this darkness. It needs to be if we believe in revival. You are sadly correct about that Chronicles scripture; we do honor God only with our lips.Day after day, you worship him  and seem eager to learn his teachings. You act like a nation that wants to do right  by obeying his laws.  You ask him about justice, and say you enjoy worshiping the LORD. You wonder why the LORD pays no attention when you go without eating and act humble. But on those same days that you give up eating, you think only of yourselves  and abuse your workers.(Isaiah 58)That's why I carefully chose the metaphor of counterpoint...not to soften or disagree. Only to contextualize.It might help to know that I was speaking from a level of personal and professional experience with the things you are calling attention to. (The Psalm I included was a testimony...) Judgement can be a terribly crushing experience, but there are worst fates then having everything only to lose it. In fact judgement can be God's ultimate grace. I do not doubt that there is a terrible reckoning coming brother. I just don't think we can describe it with the same level of predetermined certainty that we have in Christ.For instance, I remember hearing back in the late 1970's, from evangelical writers, how the Soviet Union was winning the conventional arms' race and that sooner or later we were going to have to fight them on our soil. Also, in 1990 I remember several prophets, including Wilkerson (who I respect greatly), predicting appalling amounts of American bodybags from Desert Storm I.In those cases, our evangelical leaders were not proven correct, which certainly does not remove the dangers still threatening this nation. Nor does their inaccurate predictions lessen the holy gravity of their call to repentance. Yet while even the 100% accurate Old Testament prophets were characterized by grave news, their highest calling was to the messianic promise. I know you know and believe this same thing brothers. I was responding to this thread more for my own heart sake, then to remind or educate anyone. My resolve for keeping the hope of Christ in front of all bad news was forged in a fire of chastisement and tempered through a river of personal sorrow. Having said that, I apologize sincerely if I appeared disrespectful, for that is not my attitude towards the information and warning you have given. I want to weep with you dear brother between the porch and the alter.I certainly don't think you are "some over zealous religous loony!" unless I am one too!:-) Blessings

Amen and Amen to the message, I too see a judgment on This nation coming soon...If Abel's blood called to the Lord how many cry's are heard by our Father from the blood of 44,861,615 Murdered babies via Abortion since 1973...Yes the cup of Wrath is almost full, Get ready brothers and sisters...In Christ Michael

Brother Jeff you wrote:"Your thoughts are in line with Scripture. The prophets of old preached gloom more than anything else. What can be learned from this Scriptural precept"?Amen ... But lately i been thinking were the prophets of old in fact proclaiming a message of "gloom", or were they more precisely messages of "sin has it's just rewards"? ... It does seem to me that Jehovah brought judgment upon Israel by His own direct hand for her gross sins, whereas today it seems the very nature of our gross error brings it's own dire rewards, especially so in the degredation of our society, and the precarious position we've placed ourselves in economically due to our overly materialistic greed, and desire to have everything for nothing" Brother Mike you wrote ..."I apologize sincerely if I appeared disrespectful, for that is not my attitude towards the information and warning you have given. I want to weep with you dear brother between the porch and the alter.I certainly don't think you are "some over zealous religous loony!" unless I am one too"!Amen brother, i sincerely apologize too that i've come across to abrasive ... A few of my friends have told me that they liked me a lot better when our Lord had me operating more out of the spirit of Jeremiah (where all i did was weep at whay He was showing me) than out of my present spirit of Ezekiel ... Tho God's irratation wiyh sin really stands out in Ezekiels message, i must admit that i'm partial to the latter for i had grown really weary of crying ...picky400 in light of what you wrote:"I would also temper this conversation with the admonition to remember that, subsequent to the Ressurrection of Christ, God does not Judge Nations anymore nor does he engage in Corporal punishment". That's why i said to brother Jeff, "Today the very nature of our gross error brings it's own dire rewards, especially so in the degredation of our society, and the precarious position we've placed ourselves in economically due to our overly materialistic greed, and desire to have everything for nothing" ... So to me however you believe, America is in for a rough period, and even if you don't believe it, as i also know a few saints who think like you do, a great deal of the financial movers and shakes do, as Buffet and Gates have already moved massive amounts of their wealth out of tha Stock Market, out of American Banks, and out of America period ... It no longer forecast faith in the American economy when the wealthiest Americans start storing outside the dollar in Swiss Francs, Euro's and gold boullion, in Swiss and Canadian accounts ...You also wrote:"So, this impending judgement of the US that is talked about is based in as much reality as this coming "revival" that everyone is clamoring about. Neither will be happening".There are also many saints who believe this also, to which point i say time will tell ... So if you're right we're all hunky-dory and cool ... But if you're wrong! ... Since you've shared your feelings let me share mine back in Christian love ... Boy, are you in for one big surprise!

With all this talk of Judgment, and Revival, or lack thereof, some may also find this very interesting ...Old Wells, Fallen Mantles & New Fountains ...https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4856&post_id=33746&order=0&viewmode=thread&pid=0&forum=35#33746

Greetings beloved in the glorious name of Christ Jesus,i feel led of our Lord to post this ... So for anyone interested in this update on America's precarious economy, and the reasoning behind the Neo-Conservative agenda that has the U.S. in this war in Iraq, i think you will find this enlightening ...William R. Clark, AuthorPetrodollar Warfare:Oil, Iraq and the Future of the DollarAUDIO INTERVIEW:http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2006-0128-2.mp3BOOK REVIEW:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0865715149/ref=ase_financialsenseon/104-4674733-2912719?s=books&v=glance&n=283155&tagActionCode=financialsenseoni've posted this as info only and have no intention of becoming involved in discussion as the audio is pretty much self explanatory, and for me it's only a confirmation of what He'd shown to me much previously ... So those who hear it's truth and relevance can accept it as such, those who don't can chalk it up to my continued foolishness ... In the meanwhile our Lord has me in a very quiet place of resting in and waiting on Him, where my answer(s) to anything present and to everything in past discussions/debates has become "Lord, thou knowest", and "Lord, thy will be done" ... It's like i hear Holy Spirit saying to me "Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD ... The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace."And lastly let me share with everyone "righteous" who may be dismayed with current events and this info regarding such, the scripture our Lord woke me up to some three weeks ago ...Pss.37[1] Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.[2] For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.[3] Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.[4] Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.[5] Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.[6] And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.[7] Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.[8] Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.[9] For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.[10] For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.[11] But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.[12] The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.[13] The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.[14] The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.[15] Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.[16] A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.[17] For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.[18] The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.[19] They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.[20] But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.[21] The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.[22] For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.[23] The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.[24] Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.[25] I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.[26] He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.[27] Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.[28] For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.[29] The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.[30] The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.[31] The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.[32] The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.[33] The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.[34] Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.[35] I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.[36] Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.[37] Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.[38] But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.[39] But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.[40] And the LORD shall help them and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.In these present precarious times never have these words of Jesus come to mean so much to me ... "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid" and "lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." ...Thank You Jesus!!!

I heard this story yesterday of a fellow worker here at UCLA.This individual just bought a two bedroom 1 bath house for $450,000. He purchased this home with zero down and a credit rating in the 500s. In order to qualify for this home, in addition to working full time and over time here at UCLA, he got hired on at Home Depot about 2 months ago. He starts work at Ucla at 7:00 AM. He finishes work at Home Depot at 11:00 PM. The banks are giving money to anyone that wants a loan. All they care about are the fees received for financing the loan. How crazy can it get?Good to hear from you Br. Rahman.In ChristJeff

I also agree that judgment is about to fall on our nation in the form of economic trouble, and possibly even war that could end up being waged here on our very own turf.I don't know whether or not you guys have been following what's happening with Iran, but it appears to me that the stage is being set for the US to attack them for the same reason that we went into Iraq, namely to preserve the power of the American dollar as the supreme international currency.What many people don't know is that just before we took him out, Saddam Hussein was planning to begin trading oil for European Euro's instead of Americam dollars. Many economic experts predict that had he been allowed to do this, it would have destroyed the international community's confidence in the dollar, leading to a collapse of the American economy. Well, here's the new bad news: Beginning in March of this year, Iran is planning to do the same thing. Please read the following article:http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=1998 Oil Bourse to Strengthen Prestige of Europe, Iran\tWednesday, February 1, 2006 To the detriment of America, if the Iranian oil bourse proceeds as planned in March 2006, one of the most underreported stories of the year will dramatically leap into view.Most Americans probably don’t worry about Iran too much. Talk of it developing a nuclear bomb probably strikes a raw nerve—especially coupled with the Iranian president’s anti-Jew comments. But with our hectic lives, we have little time to think about it. The trouble is, Iran has been thinking a lot about you. Its leaders are keen on America’s destruction—and that means you. That’s why one of the most underreported stories of 2006 deserves America’s attention.In March 2006, Iran is planning to launch an oil bourse. As it is understood, the bourse (a trading mechanism where someone sells and another buys) will sell oil in euros. Iran seeks to strike at the twin pillars of U.S. economic dominance: dollar reserves and confidence in the American economy.This plan, if carried out, would strengthen two fast-rising power blocs: Europe and Iran.For half a century, the American dollar has been the reserve currency of the world. Seventy percent of all currency reserves are held in American dollars.This has a lot to do with the fact that oil, the most important commodity in the world, is mostly priced in U.S. dollars. The majority of countries, being oil importers, are generally forced to buy their oil in U.S. dollars. Along with related economic considerations, this encourages them to keep most of their foreign currency in dollars.In turn, the debt-burdened U.S. economy is dependent upon the high demand for its currency in order to remain afloat. Sale of the U.S. dollar, in one way or another, funds major national debts. The day this demand comes to an end portends disaster for the American economy. This is where the seemingly innocuous subject of an Iranian oil bourse becomes anything but harmless for America.The proposed March 2006 launch of the Iranian oil bourse, if successful, would give the euro a foothold in the international oil trade, solidifying its status as an alternative oil transaction currency. This could be a catalyst for a major currency flight from the dollar to the euro—and a disaster for America.Here is why.Europe, among other major dollar-holding nations, will no longer have to buy dollars to purchase oil. For Europe, and any other country that might buy on the euro-denominated bourse, this means a shift away from the dollar reserve. The consequences for America would be immediate. Sale of Treasury bills to foreign nations would be curtailed as the purchase of euros accelerates. This would injure America’s capacity to finance its national debt. With this, Americans would feel more than a pinch. The Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability predicted, “As countries and businesses converted their dollar assets into euro assets, the U.S. property and stock market bubbles would, without doubt, burst.”Conversely then, as nations increasingly switch currency reserves from the dollar to the euro, dealing a considerable wallop to America’s global prestige, Europe’s stature will mature. Moreover, with Europe stabilizing under the beating heart of Germany’s economy, foreign nations could seemingly begin to look to Europe’s leadership rather than that of America. For Europe, which has sought an identity independent of America’s foreign-policy initiatives for the last half century, the bourse could act as a catalyst to propel the Union into a greater global standing. Again, America will receive the short end of the stick.Also, a dollar flight and subsequent purchase of euros would strengthen the European economy. The European economy is poised, should the bourse proceed, to receive a major jolt of economic confidence. By contrast, America’s economy, which stands or falls on consumer confidence, could receive a death blow.For Europe, a flush of cash would offer new opportunities to finance pan-European projects like defense and armaments. According to an Oct. 13, 2005, report by Associated Press, Britain and France have called upon their European allies to beef up defense spending. Up to now, European states have been cutting spending on defense budgets and falling well short of the American benchmark, which is over $450 billion annually. The problem is, nobody has the money. According to British Defense Secretary John Reid, his challenge is trying “to convince our colleagues to try and find a reasonable amount of money.” Right now, the European Union spends only about $218 billion on defense each year, creating glaring gaps in European defense—something a heavy amount of purchasing of euros instead of dollars could fix.According to nato figures, America spends 3.9 percent of its annual budget on defense. Remember, foreigners help finance that budget by buying dollars, so a switch to euro reserves would also have the added effect of striking at America’s ability to finance its military.As an influx of cash could begin to solve some of the most divisive problems between European states aspiring for a united Europe, European unity could receive a shot in the arm. Right now, Germany is emerging as the uncontested leader of European policy initiatives east of the Danube by effectively dealing with the Russian bear. But also, it is emerging as the internal voice for change within the Union itself. A cash-rich Union—which over the last few years has been persistently hampered by budget constraints and internal squabbling over transfer payments to different states—would be positioned to focus on issues of unity and policy. The bourse, then, could help to eliminate divisive cash problems and open opportunities for a newly resurgent Germany to ply its version of the European Union.For itself, Iran no doubt has multiple motives for making this move. For one, it makes sense economically, especially since the European Union is Iran’s biggest trading partner. More importantly, it would strike a blow to Iran’s archenemy America. Finally, making Iran the main hub for oil deals in the region would help drive the Islamic Republic forward in its quest for regional supremacy.As Gerard Baker puts it in a January 27 Times Online article, Iran is already on the threshold of creating a new moment in the history of the world, ranking its world-changing influence up there with Hitler and the Bolshevik Revolution. Couple its push for a new oil-exchange mechanism with Baker’s observations and you have a position where “No country in a region that is so riven by religious and ethnic hatreds will feel safe from the new regional superpower.”George Perkovich, an Iran expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, stated it frankly: “It’s part of a very intelligent, creative Iranian strategy—to go on the offense in every way possible and mobilize other actors against the U.S.” (Christian Science Monitor, Aug. 30, 2005).Obviously, Iran is eager to eliminate American influence. For Iran, which foresees a “clash of civilizations” between Islam and America, undermining the dollar could prove to be its best and most effective strike against a more capable military foe. As one commentator put it, the impact of the Iranian oil bourse on the U.S. dollar and the follow-on effect on the U.S. economy could be worse than Iran launching a “direct nuclear attack.”Should the bourse proceed, watch for a U.S. dollar flight into euros—and for the corresponding fall of America’s twin economic pillars, the dollar reserve and confidence in the American economy. With the Iranian oil bourse, Americans could end up holding the bag, and Europe and Iran the prize.

Thanks for the article Brother Bill.I guess we'll be invading Iran next, that is if we don't run out of borrowed funds.In ChristJeff

It was about 21 years ago (1985) that our Lord brought across my path a paper-back entitled "How To Survive America's Next Great Depression", written by an economist named R. L. King whom i can't now find hide nor hair of on-line ... But it was thru this book that our Lord began showing this once debt laden saint the hows and whys of where we are today financially and economically in America ... In that book the economist/author pretty much simply said that if America stayed it's course on the path of ever increasing debt that we'd come to a point of where it would naturally have to come crashing down at some point ... And while this guy realized that such fiscally unhealthy and just plain unGodly amassment of American debt would be turned into a global money making servicing business, and would generate all kinds of underhanded business practices steeped in immoral and unethical lies and deciet that would generate corporate scandals that would make the S&L's look like childs play, he had no idea of the many other intensifying future factors such as 9/11, the costs of war on terrorism and Iraq, the ever increasing world hostility (especially amongst the arabs/OPEC) towards America, the extent of our cuckoo public debt amassed from equity taken out of over inflated housing prices to buy what we didn't need, our dependence on foriegn governments to continue to buy our treasuries, our need to keep the dollar as the primary world currency (which is about to end), and the drastic increase of the cost of fossil fuel ... God was good to me in that that book made a marked impact on my life, and with the subsequent info He began making me aware of by age 40 i was determined to go in the opposite direction of the pack, and i became very interested in wise stewardship ... It was also out of this learning that i believe i heard Him say, "Warn your fellowman, especially those in the faith" ... And so i went on what i was soon to find out was a most rejected mission to do so, and tho He's subsequently pretty much shut my mouth to those around me He still (to my surprise) prompts me to share here on SI - so i do ...The following is an interview with a man named Warren Brussee who's written a book entitled;The Second Great Depression This man believes that this economic upheaval in America will begin sometime in 2007 ... PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT IN PROMOTION OF ANY TIMEFRAME FOR WHAT I TOO BELIEVE OUR LORD HAS SHOWN ME WILL SHORTLY TAKE PLACE, FOR HE'S PERSONALLY GIVEN ME NO TIME FRAME ... But i do feel led of our Lord to post this for anyone who may want to understand the how and why we as a nation have come to this precipice ...This author makes it technically pretty plain ...So if you're more comfortable with keeping your head in the sand this ain't for you ...FINANCIAL SENSE NEWSHOUR (AUDIO - MP3)http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2006-0318-2.mp3Pss.118[8] It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.[9] It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.Prov.11[28] He that trusteth in his riches shall fall: but the righteous shall flourish as a branch.Isa.26[3] Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.[4] Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

i initially watched this on C-Span 6/7/06 and thought it important enough to dig up and share ... It's .mp3 format (audio) ...

It's former Fed Chief Allan Greenspan before the SENATE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, and he seems now free to be totally clear about where we as a nation are regarding oil and our economy ...

http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2006/hrg060607a.html

CLICK ON:
Oil Dependence and Economic Risk
(Be patient it takes about 15 min. to load unless you know how to push the Real Player bar forward)

Pretty sobering testimony about America's future ... :beard:

This is the latest video/audio interview with new Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke ...

Again what is posted is not to elicit fear for as children of the King our trust is in Him ... What is posted is for those who like to be informed of the "why's" of what's happening in the American economy ...

Be informed!

Senate Banking Committee Semiannual Monetary Policy Report of the Federal Reserve Board
The Senate Banking Committee has its Semiannual Monetary Policy Report of the Federal Reserve Board. Fed. Chairman Ben Bernanke is a witness.
7/19/2006: WASHINGTON, DC: 2 hr. 30 min.
rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/e071906_banking.rm

Grading Bernanke
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/fed/2006-07-18-bernanke-usat_x.htm

Is the United States Bankrupt?

I got this from the Federal Reserve of St Louis. Some of it is too technical, yet this is something you will begin to hear more of in the coming years..

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/07/Kotlikoff.pdf.

As you read this you will find that there is little hope in man's government, even by one who seeks to save this system.

What do you hear?
In Christ
Jeff

Hi bro Jeff ...

i clicked on your link and it dead ends so i'm posting a direct one ...

Haven't read it yet but look forward to it! ...

http://search.newyorkfed.org/search/frbstlsrs.jsp?&type=simple&querybox=Is+the+United+States+Bankrupt?+

[b]2. Is the United States Bankrupt?[/b]
For example, China is investing large sums in Iran, Africa, and Eastern Europe.5 Although China holds close to a half trillion U.S. dollars in reserves, primarily in U.S. Treasuries, the United States sent a pretty strong message in recent months that it doesn't welcome Chinese direct investment.

[b]1. Commentary on Is the United States Bankrupt?[/b]

Wow bro Jeff,

i just got finished reading both reports and i doubt many coming to this thread will do the same, so i'm hoping to make it a bit easier for most ...

But before i do something i noticed from your info, when our Lord first directed me to Katlikoff in Dec. of 2003 he reported America's fiscal gap at 44 trillion, but just three years later he's saying it's grown to 69.5 trillion ... YIKES!!! ... Even prior to 9/11 America was already in massive debt, then the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq eating up more borrowed money like crazy, and it seems even the so called natural disasters are against us with the massive borrowed federal cash outlay they also require ... Man it just seems to get worse and worse with each passing day/report ...

Anyhow for any interested you can listen to Katlikoff's observations here:

"The Coming Generational Storm: What You Need to Know About America's Economic Future"
http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2004/Kotlikoff.html

Look for these .mp3 links once you've clicked:

08/14/2004 Interview
Real Audio MP3

12/13/2003 Interview
"The $44 Trillion Abyss"
Real Audio MP3

Also here is a link to explain what a "fiscal gap" is for any who don't know, and if you don't care to read it pretty much means "there aren't enough tax dollars to be collected from us, and future generations, to pay for what we already owe and/or have promised to the American citizentry via domestic intitlements, or promised interest on government bonds to those countries who massively purchase them" ...

Sources of the Long-Term Fiscal Gap
https://www.brook.edu/pagedefs/b71a2974d37fff3d614735e60a1415cb.xml
https://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/views/articles/gale/20040524.pdf

It's interesting to me that we "boomers", the most rebellious of generations are on a collision course with our government having to renege on intitlements, our industries reneging on our pensions, and the Fed hyperinflating our currency (by over printing our currency to buy back our own debt from others) to near
uselessness ...

Very interesting times we're living in!

Here is an example of what is going on in the commodities markets yesterday. The fair and free market dogma is only an illusion, a lie.

NICKEL PLATED DOMINOS

On August 16th, Nickel had its biggest price gain since January 2004, prompting the London Metal Exchange to impose restrictions on trading to ease a shortage of the metal.

What exactly is the significance of all this anyway?

First, this schematic shows the many varied uses of nickel:

Most of us encounter or interact with “nickel” every day because it’s a key component of stainless steel. To most in the western world, this might mean little more than the proverbial “kitchen sink.” But stainless applications go much further than this. Stainless steel systems [tubing, vats] are absolutely required in the manufacture of pharmaceuticals, most foodstuffs and virtually all of the beverage industry.

What some might fail to realize is that nickel has other applications ranging from building and construction to widespread use in electronics, and particularly batteries that power a wide range of mobile devices, including laptop computers.

Why this is all so important is not so much the ACTUAL PRICE RISE as revealed last Wednesday, when the Financial Times reported;

Nickel spikes on panic short covering
By Chris Flood
Published: August 16 2006 11:19 | Last updated: August 16 2006 17:54
Nickel continued to dominate action in commodities on Wednesday as the cash price of the metal spiked to $35,000 a tonne.

Dealers reported panic short covering - the third Wednesday of the month and the most important day for open interest. The ‘TOM/next’ premium allowing short positions to roll over one day surged to $1,000 a tonne from about $100 just weeks ago...

What is significant is the ‘TOM/next’ premium cited above. It represents the cost of financing a short position for those who have sold metal they do not own. THE LBMA HAS CAPPED THESE CHARGES AT 300 A TONNE PER DAY and, in effect, interfered with or eased the financial pain that the shorts would otherwise be subject to. This is the antithesis of free markets, folks.

The important development was the LBMA’s response – the price capping; let me explain:

The largest short position on London Metals Exchange [LME] nickel accounted for as much as 39 percent of open interest in nickel futures for the contracts expiring Oct. 10, according to LME data on Aug. 10.

For the same expiry date, there are four other short positions accounting for as much as 46 percent of open interest. Open interest is the total number of option or futures contracts that have not been closed, liquidated or delivered.

As the U.K. Times On Line points out,

“The “shorts”, investors who sell metal they don’t own in the expectation that the price will fall, are in dire straits — they cannot deliver the metal they owe. The price has soared to almost three times the long-term benchmark of just over $9,000 a tonne and people are talking darkly about a squeeze, about hidden stockpiles.

Without stocks, the LME’s forward nickel contracts would have no underpinning and the exchange would have to suspend trading…..”

Interestingly, the reason that the “shorts” either cannot or have not covered their positions is that the London Bullion Market regulators have [negligently?] allowed this LARGE, CONCENTRATED SHORT position to develop, maintain itself and grow even while physical stockpiles of deliverable metal in LBMA warehouses were dwindling to critical levels:

Metal Tonnes in Storage Change from
previous day
Aluminum 685,150 -2,750
Copper 121,800
+6,125
Nickel 6,156 +36
Lead 82,200 -800
Zinc 182,950 -1,825
Charts

Existing stockpiles of nickel have been drawn down to the point where less than one day’s global demand is now on hand.

So the real question is, how is rewarding folks that have sold-something-that-does-not-exist going to help this situation?

The answer to this question is quite simple – market rigging, categorically, will not alleviate the problems now facing “out of control, derivative laden [rigged] metals exchanges.”

As my metals pundit friend Rhody explained in a private e-mail to me,

“Here's the latest little fiasco on the paper derivative scene.

Apparently, some entity(s) have been naked shorting nickel to the point where they are now trapped. (Naked shorting is selling futures contracts for delivery of something you do not have. It is a form of fraudulent selling) Naked shorting in a market with a physical deficit of supply makes no sense, unless the object is price suppression for political reasons. The only other possibility is stupidity and greed. It looks like the powers that be are moving to assist these naked shorts.

I might add that there has never been a case on a futures market for the PTB to come to the assist of a speculator with a naked long position (a buyer who bought too much and couldn't come up with the rest of the cash when delivery was due). All this supports my contention that futures markets generally are derivative systems designed to suppress the prices of all commodities. Imagine what the price of nickel would be if there had been NO naked shorting to augment supply in paper form. Hence the nick name CRIMEX for COMEX.

Why the price suppression? If the financial sector can rig the prices of real things in the economy, they can hide a great deal of the real inflation that the fractional reserve fiat money system creates. The trouble is, this has been going on for 60 years now, and the cumulative inflation is now so high that producers of real goods are opting out of the game.

Hence, the forests are returning to Eastern North America as farmers stop growing crops at less than their costs of operation and lumber jacks stop cutting trees that are worth less than the effort to cut them (an old growth pine tree is worth only $100 on the market these days), and Africa starves because their commodity exports aren't worth exporting. There is a shortage of most metals now because mining companies stopped looking for ore deposits to replace reserves in a futures driven metal market that made them eat low prices for their output but let their costs soar.

I know most of you don't care for this stuff because it doesn't seem to affect your day to day lives, and as first worlders, you tend to benefit from the low derived prices. Your well being depends on low consumer prices, because your incomes are derived from a services dominated economy. Get real. That economy is false. If the derivative systems and the hold of the G8 on the world economy ever falters, you will watch your fiat prosperity disappear in a hyperinflationary explosion...”

I’d like to share a few more sage words of my friend Rhody – words I’ve shared with you all before but they’re worth repeating again and again,

“I say, wait until COMEX [or LBMA] stockpiles are gone, and there is a default on COMEX [or LBMA] that eliminates the futures price discovery system and we should see a fair market price fairly quickly, and I do mean "FAIR" market price. A price actually determined by true supply and demand fundamentals.” [RK emphasis]

That day is fast approaching; not only for nickel but nickel may end up serving as the first domino – that seals the same fate for copper, then toppling silver and then gold and ultimately topples U.S. Dollar [fiat] hegemony.

(end of article)

Do you see the work of the "great harlot Babylon?"

In Christ
Jeff

Quote;
"Do you see the work of the "great harlot Babylon?"

--- In the natural all appears to be the work of men, but i see the wicked "puppet master" who's working the strings of the "great harlot Babylon" ...

The Money Masters - Part 1 & 2 - (audio/video)
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=THE+MONEY+MASTERS

If it were not for my complete faith that my life is in His hands i'd be very afraid of who/what He's causing me to see ... What the devil has done, and is doing now, towards finally funneling this entire planet's economic control into the hands of his man "the anti-christ" ---

Rev.13
[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Amazing times we're living in, escalating toward the most amazing of times!

Brother Rahman,

Thankyou for the video. Everything that I have seen in Scripture and in political economics is beginning to fit together.

What is truly amazing is the power of Satan to instill the lie in the masses of men. How easily are men cast about because of the lie.

How amazing is the Scripture and the Holy Spirit that reaveals the lie. The Light reveals that which is dark.

How many love the darkness...

In Christ
Jeff

Bro Jeff you wrote;
" Everything that I have seen in Scripture and in political economics is beginning to fit together"

--- Life changing isn't it!!! --- :-)

Bro Jeff you wrote;
"How amazing is the Scripture and the Holy Spirit that reaveals the lie. The Light reveals that which is dark."

--- More than amazing isn't He!!! --- :-D

Bro Jeff you wrote;
"How many love the darkness" ...

--- All of us initially :-? ... but bless our Lord of 1Pet.2:[9] - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of [b]HIM who hath called you out of darkness into HIS marvellous light[/b] ...

Excuse me while i shout to high heaven for being one of "the called", as i'm sure you'll join in :-P ... Amen!

1John.2
[17] [b]And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.[/b]

Blessings in Christ Jesus!

The following is a surprising e-mail i got from Andrew Strom ... i was beginning to wonder if there were any other men of God seeing how precarious the US economy is, and now even the talking heads on TV news are beginning to hint at what the FED and our government already knows ... Interesting times we're living in!

ANDREW WRITES: After all our discussion about money and
finances from a kingdom perspective in recent years, I hope nobody
on this List is getting caught out by the current housing slump. I
recently heard of some Christians who had made the mistake of
taking out & spending all the equity from their home and now it is
worth less than what they owe on it. Things are so bad for them
that they may be about to lose everything. How many more are in
this predicament? - And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Most of us know that the recent boom in America was built on
people taking the equity out of their homes and spending it on
new cars, boats, holidays, etc. This is one of the most foolish
things that U.S banks have ever allowed to happen. Now the
housing crunch is on, and things may be about to get a lot worse
in this country. Only time will tell, but the article below by a
respected economics Professor raises some alarming probabilities.
Many newspapers are also publishing articles now about this slump.

The below article is by respected Professor Nouriel Roubini who is
a Professor of Economics at the Stern School of Business at New
York University:

"The BIGGEST SLUMP in US HOUSING
in the LAST 40 YEARS - OR 53 YEARS?"

-Extracts by Nouriel Roubini,
Aug 23, 2006.

The Biggest Slump in US Housing in the Last 40 Years: These are
not my views but those of the Toll Brothers, the famous luxury
McMansions homebuilders, as CNN reported last week. Also, as
reported by the WSJ today: In his 40 years as a home builder, Mr.
Toll says, he has never seen a slump unfold like the current one.
"I've never seen a downturn in housing without a downturn in
employment or... some macroeconomic nasty condition that took
housing down along with other elements of the economy," he says.
"This time, you've got low unemployment, you've got job creation,
you've got a stable stock market and relatively low interest rates.".
This followed last week's CNN headline: "Builder: Oversupply
slump worst in 40 years. Toll Brothers slashes outlook on new
homes as orders plunge and revenue misses forecasts" Indeed,
yesterday's sharply falling profit results from the Toll Brothers
confirmed their view that this is the worst housing slump in
decades. Similarly, Angelo Mozilo, the CEO of Countrywide -- the
country's largest independent home mortgage lender - recently
stated: "I've never seen a soft-landing in 53 years, so we have a
ways to go before this levels out. I have to prepare the company for
the worst that can happen." So, effectively the only debate now is
whether housing conditions are the worst in the last 40 years or in
the last 53 years. So much for the bullish soft-landing wishful
thinking coming out of Wall Street these days...

Of course, the message from the Toll Brothers and Countrywide is
like the proverbial canary in the mine that is reflective of an ongoing
rout -- calling it slowdown or slump is a misnomer by now -- in the
US housing market. Every possible indicator of the housing sector
that has been coming out in the last few weeks -- and I will discuss
their details below - suggests that the housing market is in free fall.
And today's figures on existing home sales and unsold homes say
it all; as Bloomberg concisely headlined this morning: U.S.
Existing-Home Sales Tumble; Unsold Inventory Is Highest in a Decade.

I have also argued before that the effects of housing on US
economic growth and the role of housing in tipping the US
economy into a recession in early 2007 are more significant than
the role that the tech sector bust in 2000 played in tipping the
economy into a recession in 2001. [Some] reasons:

1. The wealth effect of the tech bust was limited to the elite of
folks who had stocks in the NASDAQ. The wealth effect of now
falling housing prices -- yes median prices are starting to fall at
the national level - affects every home-owning household: the
value of residential real estate has also increased to 48.5% of
household wealth in 2006 from from 38.7% in 1996. Note that
this year there will be large increases in the borrowing costs
for $1 trillion of ARM's... Thus, debt servicing costs for millions
of homeowners will sharply increase this year and next.

2. The employment effects of housing are serious; up to 30% of
the employment growth in the last three years was due directly
and indirectly to housing. The direct effects are jobs lost in
construction, building materials, real estate brokers and sales
agents, and employees of the mortgage finance industry. The
indirect effects imply that the role of housing is even larger than
30%. The housing boom led to a boom in consumer durables
spending on home appliances and furniture. Indeed, in Q2 real
consumption of such goods was already negative: as you have
less new homes built and purchased and less old homes
refurbished and expanded, you get less purchases of home
appliances and furniture. There are also other indirect effects of
the housing bust on employment, even on the purchases of
motor vehicles. Indeed, the current auto sector slump is not
unrelated to the housing slump. As the Financial Times put
recently, the sharp fall in the sales of Ford's pick-up trucks is
related to the housing slump as such trucks are widely purchased
by real estate contractors. And indeed in Q2 real consumer
durables (that include both cars, home appliances and furniture
all related to housing) already fell, consistent with the view that
we have now have a glut in the stock of consumer durables
(durables consumption has a investment-like nature to it as such
goods last for a long time). Thus, as housing sector slumps, the
job and income and wage losses in housing will percolate
throughout the economy.

How bad are the signals coming from the housing sector? As a
recent news headline clearly put it: it is simply UGLY. Indeed, all
the indicators from the housing sectors - including the latest
housing starts and the homebuilders (NAHB) forward looking
business conditions - indicate a housing sector that is literally in
free fall. New home sales started to fall since the beginning of 2006
and in some regions they are down over 30% relative to a year ago.
As Bloomberg summarized today the new housing data: "Sales of
previously owned homes in the U.S. fell more than expected in
July, resulting in the biggest supply of unsold homes in more than
a decade, as higher mortgage rates discouraged would-be home
buyers... Sales fell 11.2 percent compared with a year earlier."

The value of home builders' shares on the NYSE has fallen by
almost 50% relative to a year ago.

The evidence on falling home prices is now becoming clearer.
Since the end of World War II, there has never been a year on
year fall in housing prices. There have been instead several
quarters in which housing prices declined... The fact that the
latest housing bubble was concentrated on the two coasts
(North East all the way to Florida; and West Coast, especially
California) does not mean that the coming housing bust in these
regions will not have national macro effects. For one thing, the
value of the housing stock in those two regions is close to 50%
of the total housing stock given the bubble of recent years. Thus,
a housing bust in the two coasts can and will have macro effects.

Not only housing prices are falling in the bubbly two coast; they
are also starting to fall in the Mid-West, the region where the
conventional wisdom was that there was no housing bubble. The
fact that home prices are falling in the Mid-West where prices did
not skyrocket in the bubble years is a scary signal of how much
the housing bust and glut in supply will lead to a sharp fall in
housing prices in the quarters ahead with painful effects on the
wealth, and thus consumption, of households. You can expect
falling median housing prices, on a year-on-year basis, at the
national level starting this month of August: indeed, today's figures
on the glut of unsold homes - much larger than in the housing bust
of the early 1990s - are only consistent with a highly likely actual
fall in home prices in the months ahead and throughout most of
2007. Note also that, on an inflation adjusted basis, real home
prices (relative to the CPI index) are already falling at a 4% plus
rate.... You can expect falling housing prices throughout most of 2007.

So, the simple conclusion from the analysis above is that this is
indeed the biggest housing slump in the last four or five decades:
every housing indictor is in free fall, including now housing prices.
By itself this slump is enough to trigger a US recession: its effects
on real residential investment, wealth and consumption, and
employment will be more severe than the tech bust that triggered
the 2001 recession. And on top of the housing bust, US consumers
are facing oil above $70, the delayed effects of rising Fed Fund and
long term rates, falling real wages, negative savings, high debt
ratios and higher and higher debt servicing ratios. This is the tipping
point for the US consumer and the effects will be ugly. Expect the
great recession of 2007 to be much nastier, deeper and more
protracted than the 2001 recession.

And the housing bust is not going to be only a US phenomenon.
As I will discuss in another blog, housing bubbles festered in many
other economies including many European ones. Thus, the
combination of high oil prices, delayed effects of rising interest
rates and slump of housing that is now leading to a US recession
is a phenomenon that is common to many other economies,
including several European ones. So, expect the same deadly
combinations of three ugly bears (slumping housing, high oil prices
and rising interest rates) to hammer Goldilocks and sharply hurt
Europe and other economies in the world.

[LATER...] This morning's data on new homes sales, inventories of
new homes and prices of new homes fully confirm and reinforce my
analysis.. that this will be the worst housing bust - calling it slump
is too mild - in decades. And since median home prices may
actually fall on a year-on-year basis in 2007 - something that has
not happened since the Great Depression of the 1930s - this may
end up being the biggest housing bust in the last 75 years...

~Professor Nouriel Roubini.
[READ FULL ARTICLE: http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini ]

(Thanks to John Mauldin of 'investorsinsight.com' for originally
sending this out).

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PAUL B. FARRELL

ARROYO GRANDE, Calif. (MarketWatch) -- When Shanghai and Hong Kong nose-dived a few weeks ago, they pulled American markets down with them. Instantly the media and press turned away from Britney's bizarre behavior and began blabbering breathlessly about the hot new topic du jour, "risk." Here's one of the best metaphors:

"We view financial risk much like popcorn popping in a microwave. Until the first kernel pops, one tends to believe nothing's happening," said Merrill Lynch chief investment strategist Richard Bernstein in Time magazine. "The initial pop seems like a random event until the second occurs. A third. A fourth. Then the popping goes wild." Suddenly, an unpredictable, irrational mob takes over.

Unpredictable? Yes. Irrational? Yes. That's the nature of risk. But why? Back in the superbullish days of the late 1990s, economist Peter Bernstein wrote the definitive history of risk in "Against the Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk." The book reflected the upbeat illusions of the time: "The revolutionary idea that defines the boundary between modern times and the past is the mastery of risk."
More specifically, Bernstein believed that the new information technology of the "this-time-it's-different" nineties was the real "boundary" line ... and that we had indeed mastered risk.
Wrong. In spite of the war, terror threats, danger of nuclear attacks, huge deficits and other problems, we're in denial about the enormous risks facing us. We're stuck in the illusion that we're safe, that we've "mastered risk."

This illusion came to mind while reading economist Gary Shilling's latest Insight newsletter. His title promises much: "How to Make Big Money: 11 Time-Tested Strategies." And it's well documented. But it made me oddly anxious. Why? Because his 11 strategies help America's 8 million millionaires (and billionaires) to get richer, but they're not much help to the other 292 million Americans.
Listen closely to the opening: "An unprecedented number of Americans have received unprecedented incomes and accumulated unprecedented net worths in recent years." But those "gains are tempered by the reality that while the top tier is gaining, the income shares of the rest are falling. Many Americans have seen no purchasing-power gains in decades."

And the gap's widening: The "lack of income didn't deter spending. In aggregate terms, spending has risen a half percentage point per year faster than after-tax incomes for 25 years, pushing the saving rate from 12% in the early 1980s to -1% today. Many financed their excess spending growth by tapping stock appreciation during the long 1982-2000 rally, and more recently, from their house appreciation."

No risk for the wealthy

Suddenly I realized why this made me anxious. There are actually two distinct kinds of risk. Risk is fundamentally different for the rich, it almost doesn't exist! They can use these strategies to their advantage, to manage risk and build equities. But the other 292 million are stuck with the leftovers, not equities but systemic liabilities, such as higher taxes, drug costs, excessive fund expenses, limited opportunities, outsourcing, etc.

So take a moment: review Shilling's 11 "time-tested" ways to make "big money." Look closely and you may see evidence of a bubble growing in these 11 quite diverse strategies for making really big money off the backs of many naïve Americans:

Government subsidies. Uncle Sam often guarantees big bucks while Main Street taxpayers pick up the tab; for example, drugs, energy and agriculture sectors.

Big fat inheritances. The super rich are the ones fighting to eliminate the so-called death tax, so they can hoard more money, pass along a bigger share, keep it in the family.

Little equity, lots of debt. Leverage works magic. It worked for condo-flippers. Now the little guys are having problems. But with $640 billion in subprime deals last year, insiders made lots of money in executive salaries, bonuses, commissions.

Nonfinancial leverage. Think of all that talent in television, movies, music and athletics. Oprah leverages Dr. Phil. Gore leverages Oscar worldwide. "American Idol" leverages millions of wannabes. Even billable time with lawyers, says Shilling, where name partners pay associates $75 an hour and charge clients $350 an hour.

'Next big thing.' Invent something, but best not to be the first one in. My first computer was a Kaypro 25 years ago. I remember when Prodigy was bigger than AOL. Shilling says: "Who ever heard of Seattle Computer Works, Chux or Carterphone?"
Small slices of very big pies. Watch the deal-makers in investment banks, private-equity managers, mortgage lenders, CEOs, commercial banks and fast-food franchises. Imagine getting a mere 0.1% finder's fee (or better yet, a 0.1% annual "management" fee) in the $45 billion Texas Power Company deal! Or maybe the average $2.4 million salary paid today's CEOs, plus options and bonuses. And you can even do a crappy job and get fired, like the Home Depot boss, and still get severance of $240 million.
Cartels and monopolies. Easy money when they have control over price and supply. Get in cahoots with politicians and secure government protections through patents and regulation. Crude oil is the classic, also steel, utilities and cable TV.

Sell the sizzle, not the steak. P.T. Barnum was right, there is an endless supply of suckers looking for the "big money," and ripe for the pickings. We'll buy anything: Quick-buck deals from Nigerian con men, financial newsletters promising hot tips, vitamins that prevent aging, secret cancer cures and, oh yes, how-to-get-rich-quick books.

Feed the addict's habit. We're a nation of addicts, "sex, nicotine, caffeine, booze, drugs, cosmetics and lavish clothes," says Shilling, "as well as small luxuries like greeting cards and fancy coffee." Play on weaknesses. Tobacco agreed to a $206 billion settlement then jacked up the prices. Notice all the new high-caffeine drinks. Or sell $3.60 lattes that cost 60 cents to make. Addicts are easy pickings in America.

Supply picks and shovels. Who made money in the California Gold Rush? Not the prospectors. Today's new prospectors include millions of naïve investors. Today's suppliers are "stock brokers, asset managers, stock market-oriented TV and radio, real estate brokers, mortgage lenders and corn-farming equipment makers."
Get paid with "other people's money." Example: That desperate CEO who needs legitimacy hires consultants to justify the sale of his company, so he can get a huge severance package. "Winners include business consultants, corporate defense lawyers and soft commission dollar recipients." Shilling discusses one of his assignments; I saw this happen when I was at Morgan Stanley, lots of money for little risk.

Two kinds of risk folks: Rich guys take very little risk in a $45 billion private equity buy-out. Nothing to lose. But the overextended little guy with an ARM on his $450,000 home took a huge risk and may lose everything. This gap is not just an income gap as Shilling points out, it's a risk gap. The rich get the equities, the rest get the liabilities.

Warning: It's blowing a new kind of bubble, and it's getting bigger.

In Christ
Jeff

Hi saints! ... :-D

Been a while since i posted, but in the meanwhile i've been busy watching, waiting, praying, and putting into place what i believe to be His instructions for me on a more personal level towards getting things prepared for the next phase of His work for me ...

Interesting times we're living in tho - huh? ... Well at least they are to me ...

Seems like some, now even in our own government, are smelling the smoke of our burning economy to the point that it's prompted them to pop their ostrich heads out of the sand just long enough to form another committee to spend more tax payer money (or is it more borrowed money?) to ask questions about what no one seems to have any answers for, or will take responsibility for ...The SBH&UA Committe's meeting (audio) posted below would be Keystone Cops funny if it weren't a reality ... Seems on the causes of this current Subprime Mortgage dilema many of our Senators and Congressmen are as dumb as doorposts, but at least one of them remembered that it was former Fed Chief Greenspan who once touted ARM's as a good for our continued economic growth before his recent 180 change of mind now that he no longer has to officially promote Fed policy (lies) ...

[b]Senate Banking, Housing & Urban Affairs Cmte. Hearing on Mortgage Market Turmoil ...[/b]

Sen. Christopher Dodd (D-CT) examines turmoil in the home mortgage market during a hearing of the Senate Banking, Housing & Urban Affairs Cmte. The chairman is expected to look at the increase in home foreclosures and solutions for the problem. CEOs of the top five housing lenders testify.

rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/e032207_banking.rm

This next link may be helpful to anyone interested in how we've technically come to this Subprime Mortgage debacle ...

[b]Michael Crittenden, Congressional Quarterly, Reporter ...[/b]
discusses how federal regulators and legislators are looking at more oversight in the “subprime” mortgage market as well as reaction from the Federal Reserve and other banking regulators and members of Congress.

rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/wj031407_crittenden.rm

[b]Some helpful definitions ...[/b]

[b]Subprime Lending ...[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_lending

(also: B-Paper, B-tier, non-prime, near-prime, special finance, second chance lending) describes loans to customers having a credit score below 620. [1] Typically, subprime customers are those who do not qualify for prime market rates because of a blemished or limited credit history. Subprime customers are therefore charged a higher interest rate, to compensate for the increased future probability of default.

[b]Predatory Lending ...[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_lending

is the practice of a lender deceptively convincing borrowers to agree to unfair and abusive loan terms, or systematically violating those terms in ways that make it difficult for the borrower to defend against.[1] Although predatory lenders are most likely to target the less educated, racial minorities and the elderly, victims of predatory lending are represented across all demographics.

As an aside i was completely dumbstruck to recently hear current Fed Chief Bernanke (before the Senate) straight up admit that there was is no actual money in Social Security, and to then hear some Senators admit that they'd spent the SS money, including that of the latest SS tax increase that was supposed to refund the fund ... The other thing that just amazed me is how these same politicians kept saying that the American people can't understand that there's no real money in the SS fund ... I know we're for the most part a population blinded in our pursuits of amusement and materialism, but are the majority of even God's people numbered amongst the dumb? ... And yep this is a rhetorical question ...

It seems apparent that the mass of American's (saved and unsaved alike) like darkness ... Somehow even we saved folk have successfuly married the American dream to the Messianic theme, and it's error has become comfortable - yet spiritually dibilitating ... In comparrison to the rest of the world in what we've got, we've percieve ourselves rich and in need of nothing (spiritually) save more material prosperity maybe ... It makes me think of how our Lord said that He would reveal in the light what we do in the dark ... Forced transparency, in any fashion, is a rough passage ... Of His own God always seems to try to give us an easier way out via pro-active repentance, but sometimes we can get so far away from Him that we forget even His patience has an end ... Then next stop the great snatching back of us to His reality - spiritual whiplash!!! ... When this happens (to most) it seems like it comes out of the clear blue, but the build up of reckoning takes time, a long time, and if one is caught by total surprise apparently one was part of His problem, and not His solution ...

Recent events in America call to mind these scriptures to me ... i know they're OT, and written of Israel, but in my spirit they still parallel with me in this NT situation of we His people (Church) in America ...

[b]Jer. 18:[/b]
[15] Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up;

[b]Ezek.22[/b]
[12] In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord GOD.

[b]Amos.8[/b]
[4] Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,
[5] Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit?
[6] That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat?

Some of us have forgotten God all together ... Some of us have forgotten God's rules and regulations on how we're supposed to carry Him in our lives ... Many of us are so self commending we can neither hear Holy Spirit's re-calling to a "first love/first work" repentance, let alone see His handwriting all over American Christianity's wall ... One way or the other, whether we believe it or not, we saints in America will be brought to face down repentance ... Judging by our continued blase' attitudes (particularly amongst Christian leadership) regarding our need for Joel chapters 1 & 2 type collective crying out to God it's re-active (the other) repentance that'll knock us to our knees ...

To this i pray, "Amen to however it must be done Lord to bring us again to you standards, Your will, way and purpose for us, that we may bring honor, praise and glory to You anew, to re-doing Your bidding in the work of Your harvest, to the bringing in of the sheaves of Your other vessels of mercy and the refinement of ourselves into Your Bride judged fit by You, and only You, to Your catching away of us to Yourself at the appointed time ... In Jesus name, to the glory of the Father, and by power and might of Holy Spirit ... Amen ...

Predatory Lending ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_lending

is the practice of a lender deceptively convincing borrowers to agree to unfair and abusive loan terms, or systematically violating those terms in ways that make it difficult for the borrower to defend against.[1] Although predatory lenders are most likely to target the less educated, racial minorities and the elderly, victims of predatory lending are represented across all demographics.

I was listening to a program where a fraud investigator shared that he heard a coversation between mortgage lenders talking about the people they just sold mortgages to. They said that these people will be going bankrupt within two years...

Why do they do these things?

The love of money has made them drunk. And what is revealing is that Freddie Mac and Ginne Mae were encouraging these loans. And so was Greenspan...

They are all being made drunk with the wine of fornication with the whore....the masses of men are being tossed to and fro...

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Rahman wrote:

As an aside i was completely dumbstruck to recently hear current Fed Chief Bernanke (before the Senate) straight up admit that there was is no actual money in Social Security, and to then hear some Senators admit that they'd spent the SS money, including that of the latest SS tax increase that was supposed to refund the fund ... The other thing that just amazed me is how these same politicians kept saying that the American people can't understand that there's no real money in the SS fund ... I know we're for the most part a population blinded in our pursuits of amusement and materialism, but are the majority of even God's people numbered amongst the dumb? ... And yep this is a rhetorical question ...

This has been going on for over 50 years. The government started stealing the money 5 years after the SS fund was started.

Only now are we beginning to hear public testimony to this fact. I have taught this and many grow upset with me. They can't accept the truth...

Now the government is beginning to form a new set of beliefs for the governed. They are beginning to teach that the SS system is going to fail. You will hear many Wall Street types speak about this system as being a ponzy scheme that was doomed to fail from the very beginning. Yet if one is willing to accept the truth the SS system would be successful if government would have acted according to Scripture...

The first... Thou shalt not steal.

And secondly...Thou shalt not kill....(When the government legalized abortion in 1973 they killed two generations of people that would now be paying into the SS fund. There have been over 30 million abortions in the 34 years since it's legalization. Just imagine how many more people would be living now and paying into the SS fund if abortion was still illegal.)

Just a thought

In Christ
jeff

Hey bro Jeff ... It's been a while ... :-D

i was gonna post this on your Days Are Evil II thread, but i'll do so here in answer to your posts ...

i too heard that both the realtors and the lenders knew up front that the sub-prime market would eventually crumble under the weight of the higher rate when it became due (since they could harly afford the note at the teaser rate) ... i also heard them say that even tho these folk would eventually lose their homes, it would still boost the economy for those whose job it is to hassle to death the losers ... This is what made me think of the scripture in Amos ... You're right, it's all about the love of $$$, which is the main reasons behind so much government deregulation ... The signs are still up "Beware Of Dog", but there are no more junk yard dogs watching over the yard ... It's what makes many who are paying attention steer toward conspiracy theories in this area of economics ... i think people have less of a problem believing that Corporate America is out to get them, but it's hard on most folks minds to concieve that their government is in cahoots with them ... But what logical conclusions can one come to when our government pulls it's watchdogs off business practice, or even more sinister when our government starts employing the same shady tactics as big business ... Theres no such thing as a completely honest balance sheet of price to earnings ratio in the business or government sectors ... They're all playing more and more extravagant deceptions in attempts to keep the American house of cards from falling ...

i heard about this recent (posted at very bottom) documentary from a "caller" on the C-Span show about "The Subprime Mortgage Problem"

It always strikes me the intensity of such callers who refer to such documentaries that others for the most part call "conspiracy theories" ... You can hear the frustration in their voices from past experience, that perhaps they'll be cut off before they can get their message across ... True some "conspiracy theories" are just way over the top, oft the rantings of madmen, but as my Dad always said "There's always a reason why someone goes mad, and if you listen long enough he'll reveal why he's crazy" ... This seems to be the plight of many folk (saved and unsaved) these days, they're perplexed and sense that something is terribly wrong, and so they begin to point out in increasing paranoia toward the elusive "THEY" who are always out to get them/us ... This definitely is so with those who see The Fed as part of a ancient "mega monied men" conspiracy toward eventually enslaving all mankind via world economic domination and one world government ... To them (as in the following documentary) it's those evil "bankers", who're behind all our present ills, leaving out as usual any blame to ourselves individually and collectively for willingly feeding into this whole American Dream (now turned into the American Scream) of hyper-materialism to the point that now we're in deep doo-doo way over our heads ... To the latter point i'm reminded of the old saying, "i have seen the enemy and it is us" ...

Of course i can agree with such folk at a higher point that there is a "conspiracy" afoot, but one driven not by tangible men but by an invisible "master conspirator" behind them who definitely is out to kill, steal and destroy ... A master cospirator whose time he knows grows increasingly short and is in redoublement of his walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour ... i thought this Puritan quote from over on the "Providential Puritan Quotation Generator" most fitting to this subject, and apparently is what has happened to many of us saints here in America who've been side tracked by "another gospel" ...

Quote:
"Satan promises the best, but pays with the worst; he promises honour, and pays with disgrace; he promises pleasure, and pays with pain; he promises profit, and pays with loss; he promises life, and pays with death."

Or as i like to say (from experience) "he likes to tempt one out in deep water, then watch one drown" ...

The part that stuck out for me and where America is today is this "he promises pleasure, and pays with pain; he promises profit, and pays with loss" ... This is where America seems to be today, in the beginning throes of falling down from our excesses in satan's promised pleasures and profits ... The "profits" part is most poignant to me because it represents $$$, the very thing that Christ and the Bible warns us saints about so often, and i think it extremly notable that of all the idolotry we saved folk could become involved in with double mindedness toward our Lord, He told us that we have to CHOOSE between $$$ (cold) and Him (hot) ... i think making the wrong choice, nay even more dastardly our attempt to marry the two pursuits (which make us lukewarm), is the sad schizophrenic plight of many a western Christian (or alledged Christian nation), with it's ultimate culmination playing out in the good ole U.S.A. ... i may be wrong but i have the sense (as i believe Holy Spirit is showing me) that with the fall of American hegemony the long rule and dominance of the English speaking people upon the rest of the globe is over, thereby usuring in a totally brand new era that we English speaking folk surely will not be ready for - unless one now is totally, and unflinchingly reliant on our Lord ... i dare say that from the time U.S. financial crisis strikes if our faith is not built on the solid Rock, but on any of the sinking sands of any type material security one is doomed ...

i'll certainly be glad when God reckons the Body here in America back to our point of finally refocusing on Him to the point that we cry out "Lord Save Us", and we can get on to a revived strolling on top of the waves like we're supposed to! ... In the meanwhile i continue to wait, watch, pray, and do what i believe i hear Him say me do regarding the few "talents" He's put in my care ...

Well enough of my ramblings, tho He's making the consequences of our action so much more plain to me ... But as you said, no one wants to hear these kinds of truths ...

Anyhow i'd be interested in what you think about this ... Tho i found it a bit disjointed i learned some things about Income Tax i sure didn't know ... And as for the soon coming National Security Card i'll not be bucking the government against it if they say i have to have one ... The only thing i'll buck is 'the mark" if it actually came to that for the Church ...

[b]America Freedom to Fascism (Authorized version)[/b]
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198

Blessings in the name of Jesus bro ... He who has promised (and i belive Him) that He'll never leave us or forsake us!

I started watching this video...last week, but didn't have the time to finish...

What a coincedence!

HA HA

God Bless
Jeff

Bro. Jeff ...

In the Baptist circle thru which our Lord saved me they have a saying ...

"There is no coincidence in Christ" ... :-D

The following is some info on a Stock Market phenomena that has recently caught media/government regulators (SEC) attention ... It's called:

[b] Naked Shorting [/b]
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nakedshorting.asp

... and is primarily practised by many who invest in Hedge Funds (which Warren Buffet calls financial WMD's just waiting to chain react) ... Anyhow this whole practice of Market Masnipulation brings to mind again ...

[b] Amos.8
[5] ... making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit. [/b]

This clip by Jim Cramer will pretty much explain why ... i'm not much on watching Cramer (his day trader style is way to intense for me), but being the "braggard" that he is he volunteers a whole lot of insider player information where plain lying is an acceptable part of this type cutthroat trading ...

[b] Jim Cramer on Market Manipulation [/b]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTt7IQB9rc0

In watching the next links it came to mind that just because it's legal doesn't mean it's moral, ethical or certainly not spiritual ... i was watching a documentary on Aimee Semple McPhereson the other nite and it said that the reason why the so called American elite (free thinkers) hate Christianity is that it's a retardant to "free thinking" ... Well what is "free thinking" but getting oneself past the confines of God's right and wrong? ...

[b] Darkside Of The Looking Glass ...
This is an interesting play by play slide presentation of how corruption is played within the Stock Market ... [/b]
http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

[b] Bloomberg Special Report - Phantom Shares [/b]
Eye Opening ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fcre8P2UUY

Blessings in Christ Jesus ...

I found this article about what we can expect in the next 10 to 20 years...

Blind, Blinder or Blind-Sided?
BY ROB KIRBY

We should have seen this coming – I’m speaking of the continuing assault on the North American middle class – except it’s got a slightly different ring to it this time around.

At risk now are 40 MILLION service jobs.

Don’t believe it? See for yourself – here. In an April 17 editorial by Froma Harrop – which I caught flying under the radar in the Seattle Times – Harrop cites the recent work and assessment of Alan S. Blinder, noted Princeton Economist and former Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve:

“The master plan, it seems, is to move perhaps 40 million high-skill American jobs to other countries. U.S. workers have not been consulted.

Princeton economist Alan Blinder predicts that these choice jobs could be lost in a mere decade or two. We speak of computer programming, bookkeeping, graphic design and other careers once thought firmly planted in American soil. For perspective, 40 million is more than twice the total number of people now employed in manufacturing.”

The loss of an ‘additional’ 40 million high skill American jobs over the next decade or two equates to leakage [or rape, perhaps?] of somewhere between 2 and 4 million jobs per year!

Where does it all end?

According to Harrop, even Blinder was reportedly taken aback,

“when, sitting in at the business summit in Davos, Switzerland, he heard U.S. executives talk enthusiastically about all the professional jobs they could outsource to lower-wage countries. And he's a free trader.”

The article goes on in attempting to lay the blame for these unwelcome developments at the feet of the government’s H-1B visa program.

What we can surmise – regardless of the true cause – outsourcing / off-shoring of American jobs has CATEGORICALLY served to dampen wage demands / wage inflation.

The Blinder Leading the Blindest?

Call me silly, but I have trouble resolving Mr. Blinder’s apparent surprise when you consider that he has written 16 books on Economics and served as Vice Chairman of the Federal Reserve from June 1994 until January 1996. The man is CLEARLY an adept researcher. As such, wouldn’t it make sense that Mr. Blinder would at least have knowledge of macro-economic research being conducted like,

The Evolution of Macro Models at the Federal Reserve Board

Admittedly, this paper was prepared for the Carnegie-Rochester Conference on Public Policy, November 22-23, 1996 – meaning it WAS published just after he finished his stint with the Fed.

But the contents of this historical account of the evolution of Macro Modeling at the Fed – one might think - would “logically” have been known to him.

On page 10 of this excellent short read, the importance "expectations of inflation” play in the macro models the Fed uses to forecast the economy.

Now I ask, would it really be a stretch to consider the notion that the Fed – working hand in hand with government – would consciously advocate and promote policies designed to “blunt” future wage demands?

Before any of you leap to conclusions and claims that I’m “hooked” on conspiracy theories – PLEASE consider this:

At a recent speech of Fed Chairman, Ben Bernanke – titled, Financial Regulation and the Invisible Hand--April 11, 2007, the Chairman said,

"Although the market system is the principal source of America’s economic dynamism, economic theory and practice both suggest that targeted government regulation and intervention can sometimes benefit the economy."

And,

"Instead, the regulatory approach taken in the United States has followed recommendations set forth in 1998 by the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets and recently reaffirmed in a set of principles by the same group.”

So, perhaps-and-just-maybe, the timing of Mr. Bernanke’s remarks - citied above - ‘absolves’ Mr. Blinder of fore-knowledge of Fed meddling [tacit or otherwise] in the markets.

What cannot be disputed, however, is that Mr. Bernanke ‘admits’ that the Federal Reserve in conjunction with government interferes with what are alleged to be FREE MARKETS. Oh, but he did state that it’s only done to benefit the economy.

My question to you all is – whose economy?

In Christ
Jeff

I am bumping this so I can hang on to it to read later. thanks

This makes current events in the U.S. economy seem a lot simpler to understand than most interviews ...

[b]Floyd Norris, New York Times, Financial Coloumnist, discusses the state of the U.S. economy, including recent drops on Wall Street, subprime mortgage rates, and the credit crunch as well as the government's oversight role on the economy.[/b]
8/14/2007: WASHINGTON, DC: 33 min.
rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/wj081407_norris.rm

Blessings in Christ Jesus! ...

PS - Also see ...

[b]The Dynamics of the Recent Global Stock Market Panic[/b] ...
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18844&forum=48

Many of those who preach for free market economies are begging for the world banking system to print paper money and to lower interest rates. They wait with sweating palms and are filled with panic. Waiting, in the hope, that they not be allowed to suffer the consequences of their own greed that drives them. They want to run away from the moral hazards that they created.

In Christ
Jeff

Amen bro Jeff ...

Did you hear Cramer losing it because loose and cheap credit is drying up for guys like him who shuffle arround borrowed money (which is what deratives are) to keep their facade of riches from falling like the houses of cards they are? ... He called Fed Chief Bernanke an academic because he didn't do what he said he would do, that being printing money and dropping it out of helicopters if he had to to keep the economy up, as if flooding the credit market (including Fed equivalents globally) with another 1/2 trillion wasn't bad enuf to make the dollar weaker + The Fed is taking under concideration what would happen if China made good its threat to dump the trillion and a half dollars there holding right now if our Senate don't stop with the trade tariff threats) ... It's amazing how the once all powerful USA has in less than 60 years been reduced to trying to pursuade China into keeping up the buying of our now really useless T-Bills if China wants to continue in it's economic growth, by the American consumer's continued spending on excesses at Wal-Mart ...

Trouble is, and the world knows it, the American consumer has nothing else to sell in order to buy because the Home Equity fiasco is now over, and now most Americans are just plain spending credit card debt ... It's a powerfully ugly scenario when both the government, and the people, are living on the strength of continued credit ... We surely as a nation have become a mansion built on sand ... Then Cramer's also screaming for the Fed to lower interest rates, but somehow everytime that's done it makes Treasury Bills go south too! ... There's no way out anymore, it's like everytime a new leak spings in the dike it's bigger
and there aren't anymore solutions ... It's like watching a financial equivalent of what happend to New Orleans,
the greater majority can't get out, and those that could
had to leave the bulk of their amassed belongings behind ...

There are now bubbles in the pot ... The American dream is escalating into the American scream for both saved and unsaved who fit the passage below ...

Gal.6
[7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
[8] For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption ...

Wall street types love analysis, the above scripture is the final analysis of where we are now ...

Just a heads up again...

Commercial Paper Roils Borrowers With $550 Billion Coming Due

By Mark Pittman

Aug. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Ottimo Funding LLC, whose name is Italian for ``excellent,'' has the highest possible credit rating and doesn't own subprime mortgage bonds. That made no difference to investors who refused to buy Ottimo's $3 billion of short-term debt this month as losses on home loans to risky borrowers infect the global credit markets.

``It's pretty much a straight contagion,'' said George Marshman, chief investment officer of Stamford, Connecticut- based Aladdin Capital Management, which oversees about $20 billion, including Ottimo. ``We think the assets are good enough'' to attract investors, he said.

The $1.1 trillion market for commercial paper used to buy assets from mortgages to car loans has seized up just as more than half of that amount comes due in the next 90 days, according to the Federal Reserve. Unless they find new buyers, hundreds of hedge funds and home-loan companies will be forced to sell $75 billion of debt backed by mortgages, according to Zurich-based UBS AG, Europe's largest bank.

Those sales would drive down prices in a market where investors have already lost $44 billion, based on Merrill Lynch & Co.'s broadest index of floating-rate securities backed by home-equity loans. That may hurt the 38.4 million individual and institutional investors in money market funds, the biggest owners of commercial paper.

``We're dumping all this collateral into the market and it becomes a death spiral for the assets,'' said Brian McManus, head of collateralized debt obligation research at Charlotte, North Carolina-based Wachovia Corp., the fourth-biggest U.S. bank by assets. CDOs contain pools of mortgage securities that have been repackaged and sliced into pieces.

`Uglier and Uglier'

Instead of commercial paper -- corporate debt that comes due in nine months or less -- money fund managers are running for the safety of government securities. Yields on three-month Treasury bills plummeted to 2.9 percent from 4.95 percent at the start of the month, even though central banks injected more than $200 billion into the financial system and the Federal Reserve cut the rate it charges banks for loans on Aug. 17.

The credit crunch, sparked by the highest level of defaults on subprime mortgages in a decade, is ``getting uglier and uglier,'' said Christopher Low, chief economist in New York for FTN Financial, the capital markets unit of Memphis, Tennessee- based First Horizon National Corp. ``This has moved beyond temporary. It's gotten beyond bailing out some hedge fund and into the broad economy.''

Asset-backed commercial paper constitutes about half the total commercial paper market and has risen from $650 billion in 2003, according New York-based Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.

Refusing to Buy

Investors are refusing to buy short-term debt backed by any mortgage that isn't guaranteed by government-chartered companies such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Aladdin's Marshman said.

More than 20 companies including San Francisco-based Luminent Mortgage Capital Inc. and Thornburg Mortgage Co. in Santa Fe, New Mexico have been unable to roll over asset-backed commercial paper. Thornburg said yesterday that it sold $20.5 billion of securities at about 95 cents on the dollar to pay down commercial paper it couldn't refinance.

The amount of asset-backed commercial paper outstanding fell $50 billion in the week ended Aug. 15, or 4.3 percent, according to data compiled by the Fed.

Ottimo's bonds are backed by mortgages to people with credit scores of 708 and higher, compared with scores for subprime loans that average less than 620. The company's commercial paper has an A1+ rating from Standard & Poor's and P1 from Moody's Investors Service, the highest available.

No Help

Aladdin wasn't forced to immediately shutter Ottimo because the company exercised an option to extend the maturities on its commercial paper, providing 30 to 45 more days to find buyers.

No issuer had extended maturities in the 12-year history of the asset-backed market until Ottimo, Luminent and a unit of Melville, New York-based American Home Mortgage Investment Corp. did so within the past two weeks, according to S&P and Moody's. More than $100 billion of extendible commercial paper is outstanding.

``The unwind will not be denied,'' said Marshman. ``Whether it takes place overnight or over the course of several months, these assets have to be placed in different hands.''

A spokesman for Luminent, Robert Siegfried of New York- based Kekst & Co., declined to comment. Calls to American Home weren't returned.

Until this month, investors were willing to buy extendible commercial paper because it offered higher interest rates than standard asset-backed commercial paper.

`Financial Panic'

The short-term securities yielded 5.75 percent to 5.95 percent on average on Aug. 8, compared with 5.45 percent for asset-backed commercial paper that isn't extendible and 5.25 percent to 5.30 percent for corporate commercial paper, according to Lee Epstein, chief executive officer of Money Market One, a San Francisco-based broker-dealer of short-term securities.

Now, asset-backed commercial paper with a maturity of 30 days or less yields 6 percent on average, and corporate borrowers pay about 5.2 percent. Investors aren't buying extendible commercial paper.

Wall Street is in a ``financial panic'' and won't fund any mortgage bonds, even AAA rated bonds backed by prime home loans, said Garrett Thornburg, chief executive officer of Thornburg, which makes loans of more than $417,000 to people with good credit. The mortgages are known as jumbo loans because they exceed the limit on what Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae can purchase.

Even the Fed's decision to cut the discount rate that it charges banks failed to revive demand. The rate for overnight borrowing in the asset-backed commercial paper market rose to 6.03 percent yesterday. The yields soared 0.39 percentage points to 6.01 percent on Aug. 17, the biggest rise since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

`Huge Problem'

``There's still a huge problem in the credit markets,'' Thornburg said in an interview. The market ``is unwinding because no one wants to own A1/P1 asset-backed commercial paper.''

Thornburg is using lines of credit for financing even though only 58 of its 38,000 mortgages are 60 days or more in arrears.

``That's just crazy,'' he said. ``If it's backed by subprime, all right. If it's backed by junk, get out. But if it's backed by high-quality receivables from Macy's or triple As from us, that market should be functioning and that market has stopped functioning.''

end of article...sorry for it's length...

To summarize in more simplier terms, this article is describing the uncertainty that is present in the current financial crisis. These people who manage billion dollar funds do not trust one another at this moment.

What does this mean for the common folk?

If you have your savings in money market accounts that are invested in things other than U.S. Treasurys, there is a possibility that your savings are not "secure." Most money market funds state that their objective is to preserve the dollar value that you have invested and secondly to aquire a resonable rate of return in interest payments for the money you have invested in these funds.

The world banking system is trying to stablize this financial crisis. Only time will tell whether they will be successful in putting off until another time what will come to be.

In the Great Depression, people placed their money in J. P. Morgan's bank because they felt secure knowing that they would be able to withdraw their money. During that time, the interest rate payed to the investor was 0%.

The "smart" people in this financial system are panicking while they tell the "simple" people that everything is well...

In Christ
Jeff

Another thought...

What happened last week?

The Federal Reserve bailed out all those financial institutions that actually are working against ethically sound financial practices. All these "smart" people have created worthless computer programs that create paper money. There is nothing in this system that promotes formation of long term investments in manufacturing and infrastructure.

Many of the Corporations of this country are spending their profits on buying back stock to increase the earnings per share. They are not interested in investing their profits in "building" something and creating wealth the old fashioned way. This current system is more or less built on paper and illusions.

The kings and princes of this earth are fornicating with the great whore Babylon.

In Christ
Jeff

Greetings in Jesus' Name dear saints by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

i watch some of the shows on fox which focus on business and the economy and such and it seems every time someone questions the stability of the dollar/market/economy, he gets beat down. Last March i watched Mike Norman talk about an economic collapse and they chewed him up ans spat him out and he hasn't been on fox much since...in corresponding a bit with him he seems to have changed his mind about that...some have been accused of being unAmerican (of all things) when pointing out the dangers of how over-extended we are...

i watch this and say to God "Lord, these people are nuts..." then i think about what Paul said in Romans...because they didn't want to retain thought of God, He gave them over to a reprobate mind...these men in many instances have unethically gone about their business, ie they didn't work as unto the Lord aknowledging them in all their ways that He may direct their paths to do right. They followed in the counsel of the enemy and now they are so blind to what they have been doing they don't see the train wreck which is going to hit before this year is out...in one day it will all come crashing down. those who preached this propserity nonsense are also about to be publically Judged and Rejected by God when the economy fails. Woe unto these who have fleeced the flock of God, when that flock turns on them and tramples them...

God help us...AMEN.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 8:39pm BST 10/08/2007

The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation. · Blog - Dollar to collapse?

Fistful of dollars - China's trade surplus reached $26.9bn in June

Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning - for the first time - that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress.

Shifts in Chinese policy are often announced through key think tanks and academies.

Described as China's "nuclear option" in the state media, such action could trigger a dollar crash at a time when the US currency is already breaking down through historic support levels.

It would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession. It is estimated that China holds over $900bn in a mix of US bonds.

Xia Bin, finance chief at the Development Research Centre (which has cabinet rank), kicked off what now appears to be government policy with a comment last week that Beijing's foreign reserves should be used as a "bargaining chip" in talks with the US.

"Of course, China doesn't want any undesirable phenomenon in the global financial order," he added.

He Fan, an official at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, went even further today, letting it be known that Beijing had the power to set off a dollar collapse if it choose to do so.

"China has accumulated a large sum of US dollars. Such a big sum, of which a considerable portion is in US treasury bonds, contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency. Russia, Switzerland, and several other countries have reduced the their dollar holdings.

"China is unlikely to follow suit as long as the yuan's exchange rate is stable against the dollar. The Chinese central bank will be forced to sell dollars once the yuan appreciated dramatically, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar," he told China Daily.

The threats play into the presidential electoral campaign of Hillary Clinton, who has called for restrictive legislation to prevent America being "held hostage to economic decisions being made in Beijing, Shanghai, or Tokyo."

WHEN THE HERD PANICS
by J. R. Nyquist

We live in the Age of the Herd. After all, people want to belong. They adopt ideologies, attitudes and poses from those around them. They invest money in the same way they adopt opinions. They draw conclusions without thinking. They make decisions without foundation. It is, after all, a reasonable shortcut to assume that someone else has thoroughly examined everything beforehand; that all the angles have been calculated, that a safe path has already been cut through the wilderness. Think of the work and study one must do in order to justify one’s own independent conclusions? Who could possibly afford the time, the effort and the humiliation of discovering that his peers are mainly interested in the more plausible ideas of the multitude? And so, for the most part, our self-advertised individualists are frauds; their individualism is a pose with which they fool themselves and others. The genuine individualist is rarely seen. He would rather avoid a public lynching, and keep alive by staying out of the way. Over a century ago, Friedrich Nietzsche noted “the inner enfeeblement, discouragement and self vexation” of Europe’s non-herd animals. He said that “the perpetual emphasizing of qualities of mediocrity as the most valuable” was progressively making the “strongly constituted” more gloomy. 

We imagine that we are building individualism when we celebrate the individual. In movies, books and plays this tendency has turned to celebrating idiosyncrasy and abnormality. Our educational establishment now teaches that each student is special, that individuality is supreme – while engaged in mass testing and curriculum homogenization. In doing this, we have ruined the very soil of individualism. “Open your eyes, you sociologists of the future!” exclaimed Nietzsche. The individual doesn’t arise from being coddled or “helped” to his individuality. According to Nietzsche, “The individual has grown strong under opposite conditions.” What we describe as the process of building individualism, he warned, “is the most extreme weakening and impoverishment of mankind.” 

In the last analysis, what is the psychology of a society based on political and economic equality? Is it not a herd psychology? And here, even the shepherds of the flock, by relying so heavily on polls and television, are merely navigating in such a way that they do not wander too far from its comforting mass. Nietzsche alleged that a great nihilistic counterfeiting of moral values was underway. Even more likely is a great counterfeiting of political values. If all men are equal, and the herd consists of most men moving in the same direction, then the herd’s direction is ultimately justified (however mindless it actually might be). By the logic of this undirected system the helm itself dissolves into an illusion. There is no rudder.

So here we arrive, after many decades. America faces a great reckoning. Its false system of values cannot continue much longer. We are warned to expect terrorist attacks. The border remains open, with drugs and weapons and enemy operatives pouring through. The president is a castrate. A vast enemy alliance is rapidly arming and positioning itself around the world. Russia is churning out new tanks and missiles and aircraft which are being shipped to Iran and Venezuela and Syria. Meanwhile, the hollowness of the American economic position is about to ring out for all to hear.

It is said that credit inflation causes market bubbles. In recent years we have seen a bubble arise in the stock market. So people moved their money into real estate. This helped to create a real estate bubble. One day we will wake up and find that everything has grown into a bubble, and everything is about to burst. The ever-inflating ideas of the American herd have even inspired a national bubble. Imagining itself invincible, imagining itself the guardian of history’s winning ideas, imagining itself the center of the world economy, America’s inflated self-conception is about to pop. 

What will the herd do when its values collapse? 

The first word that comes to mind is “panic.” It is a word closely related to the word “pandemonium,” defined in Webster’s Dictionary as: “1) The abode of all the demons; in Milton, the capital of Hell or the palace of Satan; 2) a wildly lawless or riotous place.” 

It has just been announced that the Fed is approving a half-percentage cut in its discount rate on loans to banks. “In other words,” noted one analyst, “despite saying they wouldn’t bail out the markets, the risk is so high it looks like the underlying U.S. economy is at stake.” The first sign of panic, the first indication of pandemonium, is the application of desperate measures in an increasingly desperate situation. As St. Louis Federal Reserve President William Poole recently observed, “There’s no need for the Federal Reserve [to cut the discount rate before the next meeting] unless there’s some sort of calamity taking place….” 

Last week the financial crisis was seen as “spreading.” In response, central banks poured out tens of billions. Alice Rivlin, a former Fed vice chairman, noted: “The Fed has almost unlimited ability to supply liquidity if they feel that it is appropriate.” But this statement doesn’t take panic or pandemonium into account. All the liquidity in the universe cannot quench the fires of Hell. The flames subside for a moment, but then they flare up anew. 

Panic is something that spreads. It begins in one place and moves outward, in every direction. “There is no fence against a panic fright,” wrote Thomas Fuller in 1732. When the herd fall prey to a pack of wolves, the herd begins to panic. Who will stop the panic? The government is expected to stop it. The government must do something. But the government is part of the herd. It shares the herd’s mentality. So who will save the government? 

The state of the economy today is exactly the same as the state of the economy in mid-1929.

And just wait for the next 9/11, which should be fairly soon.

i posted this first on 3/21/06, and just came across it again today ... This author believed then that a Depression in America in will begin sometime in 2007, and it's interesting to re-listen to a little over a year later ...

[b]FINANCIAL SENSE NEWSHOUR (AUDIO - MP3)
The Second Great Depression[/b]
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2006-0318-2.mp3

Also here on Amazon the author has posted an update in light of our most recent Market panic of 8/9/07 ... With but 4 months left in 2007 He still believes 2007 is the year ... i find his and the customer reviews/responses very interesting - you might too ...

http://www.amazon.com/Second-Great-Depression-Warren-Brussee/dp/1591136881/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9228689-1976942?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187815581&sr=1-1

Added 8/23/07 ... (this is the other part of the post that i just didn't want to add yesterday - but the unction just won't leave me alone ...)

--- It's also interesting (at least to me) that what this author is predicting (based solely on actual mathematical statistical data) coincides so closely with bro Ironman's posts on the latter part of "Prophetic Credentials II" and his thread "Prophetic Credentials 3" (based solely on faith, and to many a misguided and deluded one) ...

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=11514&forum=35&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=12628&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go

... in which bro Ironman believes that our Lord has revealed to him that this "financial collapse" will also occur in 2007, with the added defining that our Lord will reveal to bro Ironman it's happening 3 days prior for it's proclamation ... i've never been one in the past to attach to such a pointed prophecy, but felt led of our Lord to also attach my faith to his in confirmation and culmination of all that i've been hearing, warning of, and waiting on for over two decades now, including what i believe to be His unction at the onset of 2007 to both post here on SI, and inform the Bishop of my assingned fellowship, that we will see unmistakable REVIVAL burst forth in our midst before this year is thru ...

Now before anyone starts chuckin' stones, i hope you can find it sufficient to just wait in the knowledge that there are only 4 more months left in this year of 2007, and that if what we believe (and we do believe) led of our Lord to pre-dict (and in these cases there's no getting around that they are predictions = to declare or indicate in advance) proves to not come true, then God will prove us false prophets (and false prophets are exactly what we'll be proven to be) not of Himself, and in the midst of what will surely be a most painful (but equally freeing from continued error) experience for bro Ironman and myself in that somehow we we're deluded enough to include our Lord's name in such error - then feel free to begin chuckin' them "i told you so's" - but be it also known that in the spiritual sense
that part of us will already be dead, never to rise again, and what remains of us will be thanking Him for killing that part of us ...

God knows to be able to step out in pre-diction based on "actual mathematical statistical data" like the author is far more appealing to me, and i'm sure to bro Ironman too, than this stepping out on faith in pre-diction that we're telegraphing an actual "word" from God Himself ... That's scary in so many different areas! :-? ... In our humanity this is not an easy place, but bless God one way or the other He will yet get All the glory regardless of what we're proven to be, and Rom. 8:28 will be at work either way to all who have read this here on SI, as well as to ourselves! ...

In the final analysis let God be found true, and every man a liar ... Blessings in Christ Jesus our Lord ---

In the following link (about a third of the way - you can slide the bar) ...

http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2007-1110-1.mp3

... economist Peter Schiff describes how that because of our increasing debt, falling dollar, the subprime mess, etc., that even tho the rest of the trading world would hate to lose the cash cow of American consumerism of their exports it's becoming ever more conspicuous to say the EU, China and OPEC that their loss of us is imminent, especially as it's becoming ever more clear to them that their cost to keep us afloat in the long run is not really financially worth it ... Peter Schiff says that when we fall, the other nations will adjust, may even have to eat some of our reneged upon debt, but will continue to trade with one another while we suffer with all that such a Depression here at home will entail ... It used to be said that the other exporting nations couldn't do without us, now this guy says that not only can they, they will go on without us, it's only a matter of time ...

Then this morning i hear another economist warning of the same thing, that America will suffer while the rest of the world continues to buy and sell?

Zanny Minton Beddoes, The Economist, U.S. Economics Editor discusses her story "Getting Worried Downtown", which examines the role the consumer will play should the U.S. economy head into recession.
11/19/2007: WASHINGTON, DC: 30 min.

rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/wj111907_beddoes.rm

Both economist really got me to thinking as in what i've believed i've heard from our Lord over the past 20 years is that the world per-se isn't coming to and end (no one knows that date but Him), just America's status in it ... The chickens are coming home to roost and we're about to suffer from our excesses, especially economically ... In the first Great Depression America was 100 million souls with 1/3 of them suddenly unemployed, in a time when most folk didn't have much anyhow ... Today we are 300 million spoiled brats, with more crap than any of us need ... i heard the other day that there are at least 297 million cars registerd in the U.S. ... Can you imagine what would happen if 150 million souls became suddenly penniless? ... Can you imagine what would happen in the anytime teller generation when many will no longer be able to tap Mac? ... Can you imagine the chaos of runs on banks, closed banks, seized safety deposit boxes, etc ... Can you imagine a once proud and haughty people rich, and in need of nothing, suddenly being made aware that we're really poor, dumb, blind and naked? ... Most saints are looking for a "rapture", whilst all i can see is a "rupture" of every
vainity we hold dear, a sure recipe to a duality of "Revival" for some, and "a great falling away" for many ...

God help us ... God help you ... God help me ... to keep us from falling and to run our race to its end ...

Last night I heard Katie Couric report (with a smile on her face) that with the dollar being worth so little, Europeans shoppers are flocking to the US to take advantage of the exchange rate. I don't say this as anything against the shoppers, I know US people have gone overseas to shop for the same reason.

I only post this because of the irony...

Sis Melissa you wrote;

"Last night I heard Katie Couric report (with a smile on her face) that with the dollar being worth so little, Europeans shoppers are flocking to the US to take advantage of the exchange rate. "

--- i saw that too ... but what struck me was that you said (with a smile on her face) ...

One of the most surrealistic things about all this to me is the "business as usual, spit and polish delivery" of even news of economic woe ... i wonder if the talking heads ever concider that they just may be a part of the "have nots" in this fall ... Beats me, but it seems many think that this will only effect the other guy, or a certain segment of folk below them as it's doing now ... i don't think anyone who's seeing the bigger picture could report on this so blase' ... It's like everyones on Valium, or Prozac or something ...

The other surrealism is to have seen many on so called Black Friday rushing, and running, thru store doors to purchase so called "bargains" of even more crap we don't need ... It was estimated that at least 147 million souls hit the Malls that Friday ---

yes, it seems like the reporters don't even pay attention to what they are saying. Or maybe they have already read it and so are braced to say it without emotion...I would think that the value of the dollar (or lack thereof) would affect all of us who use it as currency.

It definitely makes me realize that God is my portion, not my paycheck or my husband's.

Florida Fund's Debt Has `Indeterminate Value,' BlackRock Says
By Darrell Preston and David Evans

Dec. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Much of the debt held by a $14 billion Florida investment fund for schools and local governments is worth less than face value and the rest is so troubled that its value can't be determined, according to an official at the Wall Street firm hired to turn around the fund.

``I don't think there are very many securities in this market we can liquidate at par,'' or 100 cents on the dollar, Chris Stavrakos, co-managing head of cash management for New York-based BlackRock Inc., said in an interview yesterday.

The more than $2 billion of the worst securities that state officials agreed yesterday to spin off into a second investment pool have an ``indeterminate value,'' he said. Of that, about $867 million is in default, or 6 percent.

Coleman Stipanovich, the executive director of the agency that oversees the fund, resigned yesterday and BlackRock, which invests more than $1.3 trillion in fixed-income and other assets, was named interim manager.

Stipanovich's resignation came after more than $13 billion was pulled from the fund as the extent of the assets in trouble came to light. Investors have been cut off from their funds since Nov. 29, when the State Board of Administration froze withdrawals amid a run on the pool, which was the largest of its kind in the U.S. at $27 billion.

Local governments, school districts and other participants in the pool, a type of money-market fund, will have to wait to find out when and how much they will recover. The investors will temporarily lose access to 14 percent of their cash under BlackRock's plan.

Access to Money

The plan allows for local governments to take out the greater of 15 percent of their holdings or $2 million without penalty. BlackRock executives estimated the fund, called the Local Government Investment Pool, may reopen as soon as tomorrow.

``The plan BlackRock submitted is very responsible,'' Governor Charlie Crist, a Republican, said in an interview after a Cabinet meeting in Tallahassee. ``For those who need money, we can accommodate them.''

Crist, state Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink and Attorney General Bill McCollum are the state board's trustees. BlackRock, hired by the state Nov. 30 to review the fund, had at least six bankers going through its holdings last weekend to develop the plan presented yesterday, Stavrakos said.

The fund owns $175 million of debt issued by Axon Financial, a structured investment vehicle that has defaulted. It also holds $180 million of debt sold by Ottimo Funding, an SIV that had its credit rating slashed to D from C by Standard & Poor's on Nov. 9.

`Nobody Will Buy'

``Nobody will buy that paper,'' Stavrakos said. The fund owns $168 million of short-term debt issued by KKR Atlantic Funding Trust and $356 million from KKR Pacific Funding Trust, securities whose values aren't ``transparent,'' he said.

KKR Atlantic's ratings were cut to D from B by Fitch Ratings on Oct. 8, while KKR Pacific was lowered to D from B on Oct. 2. Fitch said the reduction to default on the debt reflected non-payment under the original terms. The debt was restructured to extend the maturities to February and March, and interest payments are continuing.

State officials have said that under existing law they are unable to guarantee repayment of the funds local governments and schools invested in the pool, according to Bill Montford, chief executive officer of the Florida Association of District School Superintendents. Crist and other state officials didn't discuss the issue yesterday even after investors asked for a guarantee in a document presented at the meeting.

``It isn't going to fly without a guarantee,'' said Wayne Blanton, executive director of the Florida School Boards Association.

end of article....

No one knows how much "junk" Wall Street has sold to the unsuspecting public.

In Christ
Jeff

Bro Jeff you wrote;
"No one knows how much "junk" Wall Street has sold to the unsuspecting public."

---Amen ... but everytime one of these "junk" packages explodes it leaves dye marks all over the place like those explosive packs they put in bank robbers bags when they steal money ... Of the junk derivatives packages sold it's just amazing to watch them as the explode all over the world, in places you'd never suspect, many of them that are by law not even suppose to have them, and the destructive effect their having not only on destroying financial institutions,
but the canceling out of the general publics fiat based assets, especially pensions ... So much corruption being brought to light ---

To those of you interested in the information of this thread you will find the following link informative in the technical "hows" of this present fiscal American disaster ...

http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2007/Schiff.html

i believe there's soon to be upon some of us a time of "work" because there will be so much confusion (even amongst Christians) about the crashing of our economy and just how it happened, a time of explanation in natural terms in tandem with ministering and witnessing to others via Scripture as to the spiritual explanation and subsequent consolation ... As you well know the two go hand in hand in ways that seem to be clearer in the OT dealings of God with His house than in the NT, and is perhaps why we have become so lulled into being Laodicean blind to our degredations ... Most folk do suspect something is amiss, but have no idea to the degree, but don't really want to hear any "doom" warnings at all ... But just wait until the idol topples and folk begin quickly to look to blame anybody else (including God) but themselves for their part in it ... In the house of God for some there will be repentance - a recall to solemnity and Revival to pureness of "first love/works", whilst for others there will be a falling away under the strain of - "How could God allow this to happen to me"? ...

When the time for "explanation & consolotion" arrives, may you be prepared mightily of Holy Spirit to "minister" to befuddled saints, and "witness" to the baffled unsaved toward a further bringing in of the sheaves of His vessels
of mercy ...

Blessings in He who has/is/ and will continue His establishing of you in every good word and work ...

[b]2 Thes. 2:
[15] Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
[16] Now our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
[17] Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.[/b]