proudpapa
interracial marriage biblical or not what are your thoughts??
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interracial marriage ??
P
D
DEADn
It was not biblical in OT times because God it would cause Israel to marry pagans and take their hearts away from God. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though. Is that a race thing or a nation thing?
I am in an interracial marriage. Filipina and Caucasian.
John
S
sermonindex
Scriptures do not forbid interracial marriage. I say again and as one who grew up in the south. Scriptures do not forbid interracial marriage. If you have two people from different races. They are believers in Jesus. And I better add one being a man and the other woman. Then they are free to marry. Oh, and it helps a lot they love each other.
The scriptures imply that homosexual marriages are an abomination to God. The scriptus say that divorced people are not to marry. Unless divorce on Biblical grounds. The scriptures imply that a believer should not marry a non believer.
But nowhere do I see a prohibition against interracial marriage.
Bearmaster.
G
ginnyrose
QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________
But nowhere do I see a prohibition against interracial marriage.
______________________________________________________________
I agree. AND I am from the deep south - the land of Dixie! :-)
What is a greater deterrent to a successful marriage is when one or both have a low view of the permanence of marriage; come from radically different cultural backgrounds - this can be overcome, BUT but both have to be willing to give and take, not just the wife because she is supposed to be the "submissive one"; one far more spiritual the the other; divorced persons with a spouse still living. There could be other issues but these are the ones that came to my mind.
M
Marlin46
I struggled with this one. I believe that we do cross a line when we go outside our own race. I believe that redbirds and bluebirds do not cross that line because they are following the natural divine order. When in doubt I think we should not. Yes God loves us all as people but there is a divine order that is obvious. The scripture is clear when it says that. I am not convinced we are following that divine order when we cross that line. My best friend is in an interracial marriage. Great folks.
A
ADisciple
There are only two "races" in the earth-- those in the old man, Adam, and those in the New Man, Christ.
Christians may marry any within their own "race" (that is to say, may marry another Christian) regardless of skin colour. But there should be no intermarriage between the two "races."
Nevertheless when a believer is married to an unbeliever, they are to stay together, as the apostle Paul teaches (1 Cor. Ch. 7). God has grace for such situations.
Allan
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sermonindex
The physical lineage of Jesus contained a few "interracial marriages" (Rahab, Ruth).
Allan has it right that the prohibition is between a believer and a non believer getting married, not between two people who have different colors of skin.
The scriptures imply that homosexual marriages are an abomination to God.
Actually there is no implication, it's flat out stated. But not on homosexual marriages. Just on homosexual relationships. There is no such thing as a homosexual marriage, for the simple reason that God doesn't recognize such as being a marriage. They can call it whatever they want, as it doesn't change the fact that God has defined marriage, and anything that doesn't match His definition cannot be defined as such. "Legal" or not.
T
twayneb
It is possible to have an international marriage, an intercultural marriage, an interdenominational marriage, or an inter-religious belief marriage, but an interracial marriage is utterly impossible. Differences in skin color are no more or no less than differences in hair color. We don't speak of inter-folicular marriages between red-heads and brunettes. We are all humans.
Interestingly enough, in the OT, God condemned marriages between Israel and other pagan nations. However there was one very famous intercultural marriage that God defended. Moses married a woman from Ethiopia. His sister had a problem with this marriage and spoke against it. God made her barren for her opposition to this marriage that we would hear termed "interracial" today.
I agree, the only marriage God is against on a large scale is a believer and an unbeliever. As to who we marry specifically, seek God for His will.
P
proudpapa
Hi twayneb, good point about Moses , I used to attend a Church that taught interracial marriage was wrong, and the scripture about Moses was the one I brought up to them. Of course they never conceded, after I clearly proved there view as unscriptural they than made the ignorant argument about the children being unexcepted by the culture, which is both false and something Christians should not worry with anyhow. I no longer attend that Church for a veriaty of reasons
B
Blayne
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by DEADn on 2012/7/25 14:14:03
I am in an interracial marriage. Filipina and Caucasian.
John
================================
Hi! 'DEADn' (John)
I dunno why; maybe itz cuz I've interacted with you several times in here ...
But I was so very pleased to read about your marital situation. It helped me appreciate you more.
Thanks!
B
Blayne
Hi! "Marlin46"
Gosh! I musttah missed something when I was studying Ornithology.
I had no idea that redbirds and bluebirds could be said to be an entirely distinct species in the world of zoology.
The many stone age drawings from the earliest times are a clear indication that man has had a keen interest in birds. The same could likely be said about the curiosity of mankind with their opposite sex.
Anywayz, I jus' can't imagine some forlorn cave dweller becoming suspicious of different colored feathers or different colored skin.
As someone surely must have commented about Abraham, "The things you might find in tents!"
('intense')
E
enid
Miriam, Moses' sister was made barren? Where in scripture does it say that? I have read she had leprosy for seven days, but not being made barren. She was over 80 anyway, so I guess she didn't need to be made barren.
Acts 17:26, "And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth..."
We are all descended from Adam and Eve, whom God created, therefore, everyone on the face of the planet have the same God given blood.
As has been said, there is only one race, the human race.
Different colours there may be, but one race.
God bless.
S
sermonindex
I believe Dr. Martin Luther King said that one is not judged by the color of tbeir skin. But by the content of tbeir character. God told Samuel that nan looks at the outward appearance. God looks at the heart.
Bearmaster.
T
twayneb
Miriam, Moses' sister was made barren? Where in scripture does it say that? I have read she had leprosy for seven days, but not being made barren. She was over 80 anyway, so I guess she didn't need to be made barren.
Enid: My mistake. You are right. It was not barrenness. It was leprosy. Thanks for the correction.
D
DEADn
by Blayne on 2012/7/26 1:00:21================================
by DEADn on 2012/7/25 14:14:03
I am in an interracial marriage. Filipina and Caucasian.
John
================================
Hi! 'DEADn' (John)
I dunno why; maybe itz cuz I've interacted with you several times in here ...
But I was so very pleased to read about your marital situation. It helped me appreciate you more.
Thanks!
Hey Blayne, December will mark our 11 year anniversary. Funny thing because I used to write pen pals, with pen and paper and use it as a missionary project and low and behold I ended up with a wife through it all.
B
Blayne
Hi! 'DEADn' (John)
Well, thatz great for you both! I'm very happy for the both of you.
Can I tell you sumthin' true an' funny?
I was a single parent and my son was 'bout 6 at the time. Anyways, I meet this very nice lady who originated from Malaysia and she too was a single parent.
So, off we go to see how things will perhaps work out for us.
Now, she was a very sincere Christian lady and had a very nice boy of about 5 years old. We were both trying our best to give our sons a wholesome Christian environment.
Speaking for my own home, there was certainly no swearing 'er nonsense like that to be heard in my house.
Anyways, the lady and her son show up for their very first dinner in our home.
As we began to eat, this sweet Christian lady muttered aloud to her son, "Use yer F*,*!@#@ knife!"
Well, my son had a most surprised and horrified look on his face. He half expected me to leap over the table and summarily toss the lady out the door.
It took a few seconds for everyone to catch the look of each others faces around the table. While my son and I couldn't hide our shared shock, the lady and her son couldn't hide their curiosity about what might have happened.
Suddenly, I realized what had happened.
It was the lady's foreign accent that messed things up for our hearing.
She had told her son, "Use your FORK and KNIFE!". But her rapid form of phonetics had it sounding like a profanity.
My son and I mistakenly heard an entirely different phrase.
My son and I have laffed about that situation many times since.
D
DEADn
Blayne
I would have been redfaced in that situation but then it would have been a great time to break the ice. When you can laugh at each other and be genuine about it without faking it it goes a long way in molding a new relationship.
When I was in the Philippines the first time I would ocassionally here uh oh and every time I heard it I would turn my head to the speak and ask , what? Well. turns out what I heard as uh oh is actually 'OO' and it means Yes in tagalog. You can say oonga and it means yes with passion. Also, the word for water - tubig. Sounds like you are saying Too big.
One other story. I got on a jeepney near a mall. Those drivers wait until those rides are packed so they can make money even those it is cheap fair. During one ride a lady next to me began to preach. It was in tagalog but I recognized 'Cristo'. People looked at her and looked away. She did this for some 20 minutes until it was time for her stop. I just grinned at that. Philippines is a traditionally Catholic country and sport more gospel type imagery there then we see in America. I told my wife that if the U.S.A swapped places with the Philippines in terms of religious imagery the ACLU would have the courts clogged up for a long time.
P
proudpapa
WHAT ABOUT CROSS-CULTURAL AND INTER-RACIAL MARRIAGES?
As one born in Africa and raised in Africa, I have dedicated most of my life to serving Africans and I have travelled throughout this continent ministering in 30 countries. I was brought up amongst the Matabele in Zimbabwe and have many Zulu, Chichewa, Moru, Nuba and Nigerian friends.
I have seen numerous cross-cultural marriages, and generally speaking, all parties involved come to regret it.
For centuries, actually millenniums, interracial marriage was either illegal, strongly discouraged or frowned upon. However in the latter part of the 20 th century, and now at the beginning of the 21 st century, Hollywood and the news media have bombarded us with images and propaganda to promote all manner of previously unacceptable conduct, including interracial marriages. Nowhere has this been more intense than in South Africa over the last two decades. It often seems like two out of every three advertisements have a black male and a white female. Numerous New World Order Advocates openly say that mixed marriages are necessary to eradicate the whites in future generations.
Those of us who have pastoral responsibilities and have had to counsel numerous relationships are well aware of the catastrophic consequences of interracial and cross-cultural marriages. The divorce rate and instances of domestic violence are far more common in such unions. And the conflicts with in-laws more intense.
Marriage does not just involve two people but two families. It affects generations to come. Generally speaking, two people from different races, or cultures, getting married are not honouring their parents and seldom are they considering the consequences for the children. The children will belong to neither the race of the mother, nor of the father.
For hundreds of generations our ancestors married within their race, or none of us would exist. But now Europe is in danger of being swamped by multitudes of non-Europeans, especially Muslims.
Perhaps the situation does not seem quite as serious to people living in Europe right now. However, for those of us who are a small minority, a severely persecuted minority, in Africa, the consequences of being swamped by other cultures is all too acute.
I have discussed this matter with numerous pastors, theologians and authors throughout South Africa, in Europe and in America. Almost every one of them has agreed that the social and domestic consequences of interracial and inter-cultural marriages are disastrous. Most also agreed that they believed that such unions were unBiblical. However, only a few were willing to speak out openly against it, from the pulpit, or in counselling. There are a number of fine missions in Africa, experiencing Spiritual Revival, whose founders and directors have told me directly that they never have, and never will, marry people of different races, as they believe that to be sin.
I have many friends of all races. However, to marry across the colour line would be to me to betray my parents and all of our ancestors, and my children and future generations. Most importantly I believe it would be a betrayal to Almighty God, who has set the boundaries between nations.
For your further study you may want to see a Bible study that I wrote on Unequally Yoked and an article by a missionary friend of ours on Intercultural Dating and Marriage. Although the Bible study deals primarily with the Scriptures forbidding marriage with unbelievers, you will see that many of the Scriptures are very specific about marriage with other nations as well.
Please do note the dictionary definitions and the Order of Service requirements for marriage from the Book of Common Prayer.
On our adventure of Discipleship, we continually have to put our personal emotions to one side and chose to obey God’s Word first and foremost.
Peter Hammond
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sermonindex
Without reservation. Peter Hammond is a racist. His.conclusions are without Biblical warrant. His mind set is external. He is looking upon the outward appearance. He has no kingdom paradyne.
Bearmaster.
S
sermonindex
I agree that inter-racial marriage marriage may present some real cultural pressure on the marriage, and the children; some cultures more or less.
To say that it is sin, or unbiblical though, is preposterous; absurd. Pentecost is a fine example, as the Holy Spirit fell upon many proselytes [ international converts to Judaism]and Israeli and International Jews.
" And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."....
So if God Himself would marry a people of another race, it is then forbidden for us, His one and same people?
Remember, we all are really of one blood...Adam....and later Noah, who appears to be a Semite. God created diverse peoples, black skin, tan skin, and red hued skin, ivory colored skin, and the pink race too [ me ], and red heads .
Every tyrant ever believed that his race was superior. In recent memory I think of Mussolini [ Italian] and of course the beloved Fuhrer [ Aryan ], and the Japanese believed they were the superior race....and preached the exact same mantra as Hammond.
You cannot be a racist and still claim to love God; it is wicked lying pride.
E
enid
If then, so called, interracial marriage is a sin, and we go to hell for sin, does that then mean, that Moses, who married an Ethiopian woman, went to hell?
And would those, of subsequent interracial marriage have gone to hell?
What then of Salmon, who married Rahab, and Boaz who married Ruth, who was the great grandmother of King David?
Just a thought.
S
sermonindex
The greatest prophet of the Bible, chose to marry a Semite black woman, and suffered the wrath of many, including his dearest family. See how God responds:
Numbers 12:
Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.
(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)
And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.
[ IN FRONT OF TWO MILLION HEBREWS!....THE Lord WANTED TO MAKE A POINT.]
And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
GOD STOOD IN FRONT OF THEM ALL, AND SPOKE!
...And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.
.... And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.
And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.
Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb.
And Moses cried unto the Lord, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.
And the Lord said unto Moses: [ SPITTING IN THE FACE OF GOD]
" If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again."
And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again....
ALL OF THE ISRAEL NATION THEN HAD 7 DAYS TO CONSIDER THIS ISSUE....AND WERE THERE WHEN GOD STOOD AT THE DOOR OF THE TENT......SAW THE SIN, THE CURSE, THE JUDGMENT, THE DISCIPLINE AND THE MERCY.........All over a racist attitude about interracial marriage.
I think this makes it very clear how God views the subject. "The Ethiopian is MY creation, as is the Hebrew or Caucasian....and to reject them as inferior to your superior blood-line, is as spitting in my face; THE CREATOR OF ALL MEN!"
PS: Jesus died for all men, and, "For God so loved the
World......that He gave."
Reference and scripture application credit: My pastor buddy, Bob Pulfrey.....BT
P
proudpapa
I hope no one is of the false impression that I agree with the comments of what Peter Hammond wrote on interracial marriage, I am doing research on somethings I feel he is missinformed about concerning the early Anabaptist and While I was searching his Websight came across that artical. To His credit I would hesitate to call him a Racist he has dedicated and risked his life to bring the Gospel to the African people. Hammonds View as many of his are yesteryears Orthodoxy. If many of the staunch traditionalist would post there true views on this subject on this thread, you would find much simmilarity with theres and Hammonds artical.
We need to continualy examine our traditions our views our Orthodoxy in light of scripture
S
sermonindex
Granted Papa. I repent of calling Hammond a racist. Yet when one reads the article he seems to articulate those views. Yet I wonder given his work with the persecuted if he really believes in his heart what he articulates in his mind. As I posted in your other thread I do not think he understands the spiritual nature of the kingdom of Christ.
Bearmadter.
N
narrowpath
How about Timothy ?? Paul praised the faith of both his mother and grandmother. If his theory is right, Paul must have lapsed.
2. Tim 1:5 when I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice and,I am persuaded, is in thee also.
Acts 16:1
Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
I listened to Peter Hammonds talk about his work in Sudan. I was very excited about the work what God did there. Then he mentioned his support for taking up arms and his blatant praise for the crusaders and my heart sank.
I am also in a mixed marriage and I do not experience the problems he mentions. In fact most of our friends are Christians in mixed marriages.
Just like everyone else, Peter Hammond is responsible for the words he speaks.
How about America? You will only find a tiny minority of people who in their ancestral lineage never crossed race borders.
In this respect he neither speaks the truth nor in love. This is downright offensive.
D
dvndsn
I will respond to the OP and say that interracial marriage is completely Biblical. I hold the phrase, "unequally yoked" to be referring to believers and non-believers. I am married to my wife who is a Christian. I would never choose to marry a non-believer.
As one who is more reserved in my rebukes simply for my un-assertive character, I must speak up and kindly rebuke you, proudpapa, on your views of interracial marriage. Marriage is clearly defined in Scripture as one man, and one woman, and more than that, a believer with a believer. I also believe you deface the value of having children by saying,
"The children will belong to neither the race of the mother, nor of the father."
This statement breaks my heart. The act of having children is a type of God being our father. God is my father through my belief in Him. I am his child. No one else will tell me otherwise. His house is a house with many rooms. Many rooms to house many people. Many people to represent the people of God. The people of God to represent the many nations. The many nations to represent different races.
"and now at the beginning of the 21 st century, Hollywood and the news media have bombarded us with images and propaganda to promote all manner of previously unacceptable conduct, including interracial marriages."
In regards to this, I see many pictures and advertisements representing individuals from different races. Asian, Caucasian, African-American, etc. In all honesty, it pertains more to discriminatory laws and appeal. A company founded in the United States cannot discriminate based on someones color of skin, so they advertise people belonging to many nationalities.
EDIT: In researching other posts on this website, I realize proudpapa is not Peter Hammond. I do not feel comfortable rebuking someone who is quoted. To me it's like speaking into the wind. He will not hear my rebuke.
S
sermonindex
David, Papa was quoting the views of Peter Hammond. Papa posted an article further back in this thread. In this article Hammond feels interracial marriage is wrong. This is not Papa's view. If I remember correctly Papa is happily married to a beautiful sister from the Phillipines. I believe God has blessed them with two beautiful children. Hence his handle Proud Papa.
Bearmaster.
D
dvndsn
I tried to edit my post before anyone saw, haha. Thanks for the correction, though!
P
proudpapa
Hi bearmaster you got it all right except //happily married to a beautiful sister from the Phillipines//
I believe you may be remebering deadn being married to a Filipina.
S
sermonindex
Oops sorry bro. Trust you are happily married to a lovely sister.
Bearmaster
S
sermonindex
Hey David. You are a good solid bro. Look forward to good fellowship with you.
Bearmaster.
D
dvndsn
Thank you bearmaster. For the record, dvndsn stands for Divine Design. I think you understand the meaning :)
P
proudpapa
//Oops sorry bro. Trust you are happily married to a lovely sister//
absolutely
M
Marlin46
We aren't birds and God created barriers not for us to cross. Sinful men cross those barriers. Even Oak trees begat oak trees not pines. So if that species obeys the law of God and doesn't cross the line and we do it is blatant rebellion and the bent in our nature. If God had not created those barriers .. however He did. Thank you for your opinion.
D
DEADn
I've always wondered why interracial marriage would always pop up on a discussion board focused on Christianity as if it is wrong.
Ironically, if Christianity wanted to say it was wrong they IT would have a black eye since millions are in these relationships and producing kids galore. If anyone happens to be a hater because of this then the prayer closet is needed to flush out the heart and its bias' and judgments against interracial relationships.
John
P
proudpapa
Concerning this subject God clearly shows that there are no barriers concerning interracial marriage in His revealed Written Word,
Moses a descendant of Shem a Semite married an ethiopian a descendant of Ham a Hamite both of different races this marriage was condemned by Moses sister Miriam but approved as exceptable of God. Miriam was then punished with leprousy, and became white as snow.
Numbers 12
1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.
3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)
4 And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.
5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.
10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.
11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.
12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb.
13 And Moses cried unto the Lord, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.
14 And the Lord said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.
15 And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again
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