The verse that is making me lose sleep! Heb 6:4-6

Can you sin and sin and sin and all of a sudden your heart is so hard that you can't repent?

Does this type of person know he is a reprobate? Does he care? What if he wants to come back but only because he doesn't want to go to hell?

I'm just a little ( a lot) concerned for my situation. I feel like I'm "un-born again". I know it's a lie but this verse scares me so much. I just need to wake up and get strong and walk in Faith I guess.

SO WHO IS THIS PERSON THAT PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT?

Hebrews 6:4-6
New King James Version (NKJV)

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

If your heart is calling out to your Father, don't attribute it to a lack of being led, for it is proof that you are being led.

It is utter foolishness to ignore your Father's voice because yes, your heart can be hardened.

It is best to take all the warnings in God's Word for you personally and not try to figure out if they are for someone else.

We are His HOUSE, if, if, if, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope FIRM UNTO THE END.

Notice the conditional, statement? Don't play with sin. Christ is not a minister of sin.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Pilgrim

Hi Santana,

This passage should make many Christians lose sleep. The church is busy teaching an easy salvation that requires no commitment, no death to self, no sacrifice, no service. If we read all the parables about "Hell", we realize they all talk, not about sinners, but kingdom people! If we read about the basis of judgment, it is always about being judged by our works toward the weak and needy, not whether we asked Jesus into our heart or some other meaningless jesture.

Look at the verse you quote, and notice the characteristics of this doomed person:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come,
-Hebrews 6:4,5
They:
1) were once enlightened
2) have tasted of the heavenly gift
3) were made partakers of the Holy Spirit
4) have tasted the good Word of God
5) have tasyed the powers of the world to come

These people had a close, intimate knowledge and relationship with our Father and our Brother Jesus.

Notice this passage:

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
-Hebrews 10:26, 27

Again notice, these people (I continue numbering from the above), they:

6) had received the knowledge of the truth

Now this not only sounds like Christians, but Christians fully aquainted with our Creator God.

We are assured, don't worry, we are depending on Christ's righteousness, not our own. Just confess you sins you will be forgiven.

There is a great difference between sinning ignorantly or, as the above passage says, willfully. Three entire chapters discuss the remedy for sinning in ignorance, Leviticus 4 and 5, and Numbers 5. Christ prayed for those crucifying Him, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."

Christians KNOW what they are doing when they sin willfully. Look at their promised fate:

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering, let us consider one another to provoke to love and to good works, (clearly speaking of Christians) not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, ... for if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for judgment and fiery indignation, (does this sound like what we are taught is the fate of Christians?) which shall devour the adversaries.
He who despised Moses' Law (those living in Old Covenant times) died without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment(punishment of Christians will be more severe than those believers who did not have the Spirit of God in them), do you suppose, will he be thought worthy of punishment, the one who has trampled the Son of God (only Christians can trample on the blood of Christ that sanctified them!!), and who has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? (Only a Christian can insult the grace he was given!)
For we know Him who has said, "Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay, says the Lord." And again, "The Lord shall judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
-excerpts from Hebrews 10:23-31

Peter fully agrees:

For if they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the full knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ [these people had had escaped theworld, and they had FULL knowledge, can the unsaved escape the world and have full knowledge of Jesus Christ?], and are again entangled [again entangled, they go back to what they left, the unsaved never left their entanglement of sinful lives], they have been overcome by these, their last things are worse than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have fully known the way of righteousness, than fully knowing [twice it says they fully knew, three times counting the above, these were true Christians] it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But the word of the true proverb has happened to them: The dog turning to his own vomit; and, The washed sow to wallowing in the mire.
-2 Peter 2:20-22

Some will argue they were always dogs, always swine, but that is not what peter is saying. Dogs and swine do not ave full knowledge of their Creator God, the were never delivered from their entanglement.

Our false and weak Christianity not only fails to prepare us for the world to come, but fails to help us gain the promised blessings of this world.

I could fill a book with references to the real obligations we Christians have, the true expectations our Father has for us, the miserable fate WE will face (our parents, our sons and daughters, we ourselves), because we have been lulled into apostacy by an ungodly clergy Who have NO understanding of the true Way we are to walk.

Some say we don't need to stive for holiness, we can dismiss the law, because we are under the New Covenant, but:

I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will remove the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh, SO THAT THEY MAY WALK IN MY STATUTES AND KEEP MY ORDINANCES, AND DO THEM. And they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
-Ezekiel 11:19, 20

Yes, the law was abolished, but it was replaced by the higher law of the Spirit. We are new creations, fully empowered to live as beings of light and love through the power of God living in us!

We must leave our religion, our denominations, all of them, and learn to walk in spirituality, the essence of the life of Christ.

Brethren,

This is too important to make this a debate of a hotly contested doctrine.

Santana,

I would encourage you to seek for yourself. Be honest with yourself; are you asking because you want to sin and retain good sleep or are you convicted about your sin against Him? If you are only concerned about hell you need to consider that you may never have been born of His Spirit, my friend. Be honest and humble in your approach. You can run out of time. If you have ever known Him you would be grieved at hurting Him even if you have fallen into sin or carnal living. If you have never known Him you ARE the person in this scripture: the one that has heard and seen and tasted, but never met Christ and known Him and experienced the Spirit in the deep places of your own spirit, never eaten the Bread or drank the Water.

If you have the Spirit within you you would know you are His because you would feel His grief and you would feel the bondage you have entered to some degree and at some point. You need to probe without distraction (which will now come to you bountifully). You need to face where you are without brushing over it with memories of a sinner's prayer and baptism and church attendence. I will pray for you.

I don't believe the bible offers unconditional guarantees. There are a lot of qualifying "ifs" that go along with the promises. So if Jesus once saves us from the lure of sin...does that mean you will never again be lured into sin??? So our experiences line up with the bible. I don't know of any Christian that has been set free from the lure of sin completely. So then salvation is a process as well as an event. We must learn to put our desires in heaven...all of them, so we can walk in the salvation we have been given through Christ. Then we can grow into the salvation to the extent that we can keep it.

Pilgrim

hi, who is your faith in?Jesus said you have eternal life and no man could pluck you out of His hand.Jesus is forever making intercession for you to the Father.Jesus loves you. the problem here is you are taking control of your life and salvation. read what it says if you sin willfully . Jesus has already forgiven your sins. you are in control and Jesus therefore is not your Lord. Have faith in God. you can't, He can.jimp

NO MAN can pluck you out of His hand, BUT YOU can draw back in unbelief.

Man is not doing anything to you.

Sometimes, WE are our worst enemy so we change the Gospel in order to "feel better".

----------------------------------------------------------------------
We love in a sin crazed world and at a time where the church is salvation crazed...a single issue circular reasoning obesession to defend a status. Are you saved? they ask...

It is natural then to see the true nature of the gospel as foreign. People are brainwashed to the point that the reading of one scripture allows one to completely ignore the truth of 2 others. Is the ink of the one verse more valuable than the ink used in others????

Denying basic biblical truths has become a past-time for church goers. It is the latest fad.

Consider these messages from the bible... (I know that most here are unable to do so because of their conditioning) I will use contra-distinctions in order to help stimulate a little freedom of thought...

So if there was no one closer to God than others then...

-there would be no race of faith spoken of by Paul
-there would be nothing more to attain and Paul would be chasing works by emphasizing this
-there would be no such thing as a distinction to be overcomers
-all that were called would also be chosen
-Jesus would marry everyone He sees...no distinct Bride
-no one who prophesies and declares Jesus as "Lord, Lord" could be rejected
-there would be no least and greatest in the kingdom
-there would be only the saved and no elect (of course these are seen as identical)
-In a great house there would only be vessels of honour
-There would be nobody sitting next to Jesus in the kingdom (all would be)
-all would have the exact same requirement (to whom much is given less is required???)
-We would not have to be approved of God (we are the ones approving God?)
-No Christian would be judged
-There would be no system of rewards (this encourages works?)
-there would be nothing to add to our faith and Peter would be preaching a false gospel of works that takes away from "faith alone" (2 Peter 1) (brainwash alert )
-everybody that claims to be a Christian would leave all to follow Jesus
-We would have all things in common
-the world would not be laughing so hard at the unreality of most of modern Christianity

Pilgrim

Hi! 'Pilgrim777'

I was reading your Comment and I was especially intrigued by your saying, "So then salvation is a process as well as an event".
"Wow!", I said to myself, "That's an excellent understanding that I should take for myself too".
But as I was formulating your words to make them my own possession, I discovered that they could be ingested better by my re-phrasing it as, "While Repentance is an event, Salvation is a process".
Anyways, sometimes I can be too analytic about things and this might well be the case about this matter. But it works for me at least. :)

pilgrim, are you saying Jesus is not able to keep that which you have comitted to Him?why say this?are you not a man(or woman)?where is your faith and trust placed?if your faith is placed in the finished work of the cross and Jesus is your Lord... you are secure in Him and His provision for you and you can rest in His love for you.jimp

pilgrim, are you saying Jesus is not able to keep that which you have comitted to Him?why say this?are you not a man(or woman)?where is your faith and trust placed?if your faith is placed in the finished work of the cross and Jesus is your Lord... you are secure in Him and His provision for you and you can rest in His love for you.jimp

Hi Santana

Quote

"SO WHO IS THIS PERSON THAT PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT?"

It is my view that the writer (probably Paul) is not referring to true believers in the section of Hebrews Ch 6 that you quoted. I believe he is talking about the Jews of that time. The Jews had been enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift and been partakers (better stated 'shared') in the Holy Spirit in the sense that they had enjoyed special privilege in the Old Testament era. They were also witnessing miraculous manifestations of the power of the Holy Spirit during the period of the Acts. I believe these miracles were further signs to the Jews so that they would repent and believe. However, not only were they hardening their hearts, but they were trying to re-establish Judaism with its sacrifices, feasts and rituals and in many cases mixing it with Christianity. This error was troubling Paul (or other writer) because he felt it was confusing and corrupting the true gospel and leading those truly converted Hebrew Christians astray.

Verse 9 of the chapter reinforces the view that the writer had previously not been talking about people who had salvation

'9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. ' (NKJV)

Admittedly, there is a certain amount of ambiguity, but I would hold to the above interpretation. An application could also be made to those in the church today who are not saved, are steeped in religion and in effect are tares, but not to those who are saved. True believers can and do sin, but they don't make a practice of it in their lives. 1 John deals with this subject. The Hebrew letter was written to Hebrew Christians and the correct interpretation should reflect this.

David

Hi! 'Santana'

The truth is: our minds can so easily re-invent ghosts or distorted ideas which are very much a fraud and false.
Your expressed thought-world here is exactly such a thing. It is, to put it bluntly, an absolute lie ... in complete contradiction to what God thinks about you and your circumstance.

'Santana', you already know the way back; you already know what is needed to return home ... just like the lost prodigal son.

So then, the question necessarily becomes: What lie am I believing that prevents me from returning home?

Well, 'Santana', I can't presume to have the ability to read your mind. Only YOU have that ability of examining the imaginings of your mind.
Yet, from my own personal experience, I can perhaps make a confident identification of your thoughts through my prior acquaintance with the normal lineup of likely suspects.

The primary suspect is always a false image of God which we have wrongly invented for ourselves.
I have met many who have been victimized at the hands of this malicious suspect.

But first, I want you to know about something that I found rather puzzling about your Post here?
You failed to mention the verse which immediately follows your quote of Hebrews 6:4-6. You didn't mention verse 7.
That's kinna' odd, don't yuh think?
I would have thought that, if someone is intent on using Scripture to condemn himself, that he'd at least quote the applicable verses/statement to it's very end.

Anyways, it's in verse 7 where the answer to your question begins.
"For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God".
This is an image of every man on the earth; including YOU. You too have drank in the rain, which is an image of the Holy Spirit, by Whom the sown word comes into development in your heart.

So now we return to investigate the suspect that I'm meaning to tell you about. How can we identify him? What might be his DNA (Devilish Nature & Accusations) or the signature of his fingerprints?

In a word, you have been robbed of the true face of God!
The devil has caused you to believe lies about Who God is and how He thinks and how He behaves.

The reason you don't feel confident about returning to your heavenly Father and rightful home is that you your thoughts have affixed a false mask to your Father's face and His true identity now remains hidden from you.

There are many faces supposedly belonging to God in the world. Even among Christians, the identity of God's face differs widely among them. The faithful of God, however, earnestly wish to have fellowship with the only true God. Our desire is to follow after the living and unchangeable God in spirit and in truth. Therefore, we first need to properly identify Him; to recognize His true face so that we don't find ourselves following after foreign gods.

It can be an excruciating experience to live in a world without faces; to live in a world believing falsely both about ourselves and about God.

Ask any blind person about what's most painful about blindness and the first thing they will tell you is that they have no memory of faces.
When we sighted people closes our eyes, we should not presume that what we see is comparable to that of a blind person. After all, we still possess the memories of our sight and our mind remains full of familiar colors, shapes and movements. But behind the shut eyes of a blind person are only images devoid of color and depth. Sadly, the blind have no memory of faces.

I recall mentioning the works of this suspect at other occasions here at SI. For instance, about how patients often describe the experience of having a limb amputated. Doctors even have a name for the phenomena, "phantom limbs". Patients would sometimes feel as if their amputated limb was gesturing, feeling itches and twitching. They claimed that the phantom limb felt and behaved as though it were still there.

So it is that the true face of God has ripped Him away from you limb by limb until nothing has remained Him but the itch of His presence.

It's not for nothing that the Scripture says:
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and SEEK MY FACE and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land".

So, I recommend that you seek the TRUE face of God; that you reject the false face which the DNA (devilish nature and accusations) of the evil one is giving you.

Is this not true what I'm now saying to you?
Even when you sincerely attempted to return home, you discovered that you were unable to recognize Him; you hurried past His inviting and outstretched hands without a thought about Who He might be.
Because you were seeking after a foreign God, you instead stumbled into the unwelcome sight of some creature who met you with a disapproving frown and with his hands shoved stubbornly in his pockets.

So, 'Santana', when you kneel down today and decide once again to return home, you need to be able to recognize His face.

Here's a start from the Amplified version that makes everything about God's face plain:

If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]. (1John 1:9)

May God bless you richly!

pilgrim, are you saying Jesus is not able to keep that which you have comitted to Him?why say this?are you not a man(or woman)?where is your faith and trust placed?if your faith is placed in the finished work of the cross and Jesus is your Lord... you are secure in Him and His provision for you and you can rest in His love for you.jimp

Well, you have to commit it to Him, don't you? That is also not a one time event but is contained in abiding in Him. In other words you commit and keep committing to Him, but you can't very well do this if you stop abiding in Him.

Correct me if I am wrong, but what you are saying is that if you get saved but become offended sometime in your walk and refuse to abide in the Lord from that time on, it's nothing really to worry about. Even though you are practically fallen away as far as anyone can tell, you will still be saved because God never left you (even though you left Him). Afterall, you committed something to the Lord at the beginning, so at least God will "KEEP" your eternal salvation intact.

Is this what you are saying?

So, why not just enjoy the world, and try to escape as much uncomfortableness (persecution, tribulation) as possible? I mean, "such a deal", who can refuse. Why pick up our cross (even though it was a command)?

I think Jesus was being a legalist telling the Rich Young Ruler to forsake his sin. He certainly wasn't preaching the Gospel of Grace at that time, was He? Maybe, He was having a bad day. If the Rich Young Ruler only knew that he only had to forsake his sin to get saved but after that everything was golden and he could cherish any idol in his heart after salvation and still be saved. Afterall, he was a now a "card-carrying", verifiable SON and even SEALED with the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Wow! Is this true? I like this Gospel.

Jimp, religious flesh hates to die and thinks up many ways to climb over the wall rather than go through the DOOR.

Pilgrim

Hi! "Pilgrim777"

Yeah, this can oftentimes be perceived as indistinguishable ... even to sincere and genuine Christians ... the wall and the door.
Thanks!

In the opening OP the verse was written to Hebrew Christians. It doesn't apply to Hebrew non-Christians, because they are already due for God's wrath. Eph 2:3.

Anyone who is saved, who endures to the end as a faithful soldier of the cross, will be saved. No doubt about it.

An unrighteous person sees everything one way. But if we can repent of sin by turning to God then we can also repent of turning to God by turning to sin. Are the ways of the Lord not equal...or are they falsely balanced as men's ways???

For more understanding of the freedom that God gives to His creation I suggest this book...

THE BIBLE!

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you DO ERR FROM THE TRUTH, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Jesus is not our "Heavenly Masseur", comforting us in our sin.

He admonishes and warns.

Pilgrim

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

So if I am able to fall, then I am taking myself out the hand of Jesus and out of the hand of our Father? That is impossible, unless I am stronger than God and make Jesus of no avail. So the scripture is correct, If it were possible to fall out of the hands of Jesus and our Father I could not return. This then is the impossibility. That is the better things. Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded (to rely on by inward certainty) better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

I believe this is what Paul is saying; You Hebrew Christians cannot go back into the Jewish way of life, it is impossible, because if you did you would be crucifying to yourself Jesus Christ a second time, which is impossible. "Though we thus speak". For once you are born again there is no second death. I died once when I was crucified with Christ, never to die again. For the second death has no power over me. It does not depend on my falling away, but On God who has given me new Life in the power of the incorruptable Seed of His Son that is now my Spirit and lives in me forever, SEALED, by His Holy Spirit.

Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Condemnation is of the Devil. Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

In Christ: Phillip

I listened to an interesting sermon that tackled this very scripture (not sure if I can name the 'competiton') but the sermon was called 'Warning' by Richard Caldwell Jr. I found it very helpful as it highlighted the concern this passage entails, then proceeds to expound it piece by piece. It might help you.

I speak to some Christians and the mention of this or the 'lord, lord did we not..' passage causes such uncertainty - I find it quite sad. I hope you find the sermon and it blesses you with its explanation.

Double post - please accept my apologies

Hi! 'ChristInYou'

It's rather remarkable that you referenced the parable of the Good Shepherd. Especially after the earlier Thread titled 'Biblical View of Speaking Life'.

At first glance, some would believe that a child could understand the parable of the Good Shepherd. Perhaps, this might be why it seems to have become a Sunday school favorite. Yet verse 6 says: "This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them".

The listeners had not been taught to think spiritually. This shouldn't surprise us. They didn't even even understand the meaning of their own worship, for it too was a symbol of the heavenly reality, (Heb 9:9).

The parable of the Sheep Fold reveals to us the Kingdom of God, (the light side of the Kingdom of heaven). The door giving entrance to it stands for repentance and forgiveness of sins through our Lord's suffering and death. This is why Jesus said, "I am the door". The way which Jesus opened is the only lawful way into the Kingdom of God.

John the Baptist was the first servant of God alluding to this truth because his baptism was a baptism of repentance and forgiveness of sins. Accordingly, he spoke to the people about the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".

A new era was ushered in when John announced: "Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Mark 1:4; Matt 3:2 & John 1:29). By his preaching, John drew the attention of the crowds away from the visible sacrifices in the temple. He showed them the spiritual reality and not the temporary shadow of ceremonies and temple traditions. He was the preparer of the way, whose word put the axe at the root of the tree of the Old Covenant.

While the message of John made him the doorkeeper who showed the sheep the right entrance into the Kingdom of God, Jesus "made purification for sins" and so opened the door to the sheepfold.

John's task was "to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared", (Luke 1:17). So, it speaks about there being a preparation. The message of John created a new disposition or will to obey, and it caused man to be fit to enter into the Kingdom of God.

However, the message of Jesus not only caused the disobedient to become willing but also gave them the ability to obey and to enter because they were set free from the powers of darkness which had previously obstructed their entering. This is why Jesus declared: "If it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you", (Matt 12:28).

In this way the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", (the disobedient), were able to enter. This put them in a situation similar to the little children whose parents took them to Jesus and about whom He said: "For to such (consecrated and protected children) belongs the Kingdom of heaven", (Matt 19:14).

Following the resurrection of Jesus, everything became reality, not only for the people of Israel but also for the other nations. Paul's commission was for the Gentiles, "To whom I send you to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Me", (Acts 26:17-18).
This fulfilled Jesus' words: "And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd", (John 10:16).

In our days there are still multitudes of sincere genuine Christians who insist to only follow after the teachings of John the Baptist. They preach repentance and forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ; but this is where they stop.
Yet, make no mistake. Even those who only accept the message of John enter into the Kingdom of God. This is because the perfect sacrifice has been made and forgiveness of sins has been accepted by them in faith.

On the other hand, while repentance involves a decided TURNING AWAY from the powers of darkness, it is ineffectual to SET FREE the penitent from the powers of darkness. This is why a walk in the Kingdom of God is often discovered to be near impossible for so many of our Christian brothers and sisters.

Thankfully, if a Christian finds himself in the circumstance of needing to be released from the grip of sin, the teaching of Jesus abundantly provides, even if John's does not.

The parable of the Good Shepherd mentions the voice of the shepherd Himself. So there is a voice, or doctrine, of Jesus which is "much more excellent"'. Even though it fits in suitably with what John taught, it is nonetheless a salvation which was for the very first time declared by the Lord and of which "God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will", (Heb 2:3-4).

So, we have a a brotherhood with those who only know the teachings of John the Baptist; those who are acquainted with the forgiveness of sins because it leads these sheep into the same fold. But at the same time, there is a gospel of the Kingdom which distinguishes or shows a separation between the sheep in that one confined room.

That is the reason why Paul asked the disciples of John at Ephesus: "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" The apostle added: "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is Jesus. On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied", (Acts 19:1-7).

Have you noticed, 'ChristInYou'? In some other parables of the Kingdom of God too we can note this same distinguishing. For instance, the parable speaking about the city of God and its temple. The "city", New Jerusalem, are those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb of God. But those who have received the baptism with the Holy Spirit and function in the heavenly places are the "temple", which forms the dwelling place of God in the spiritual world.

So it is that we know that John's teachings led the erring sheep of the house of Israel back to the sheepfold. There they form the remnant chosen by grace. In the sheepfold there now is a spiritual Israel from among Jews and Gentiles. But in the midst of these tribes there is the "royal priesthood", (1Peter 2:9). They are anointed with the Holy Spirit. They are the sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel, (Rev 7:4). These are the Good Shepherd's "own" sheep.

Jesus came to the sheepfold, "to lead many sons to glory", for the Kingdom of God reaches beyond the walls of the sheepfold, meaning to say: beyond the knowledge that sins are forgiven and that one has become a child of God.

The Good Shepherd brings His "own sheep" out of the fold, and then He goes before them, and the sheep follow Him, for they know His voice, (John 10:4).

"Knowing His voice" means accepting His words and His ways of thinking. Following Him means to use His methods, do the things which He did, and express His doctrine in acts.

"Going in" means entering into the rest of the sheepfold through the forgiveness of sins and the knowledge of being a child of God, and entering the rest of the perfect sacrifice of Calvary,(Heb 4). The Lord spoke about this invitation saying, "Come that they may have life, and have it abundantly", (John 10:10).

When the Lord added that His sheep "go in and out and find pasture", He was indicating that His sheep are active in the heavenly places. After all, this is where His sheep receive their spiritual food and drink the water of life. It is in the unseen kingdom where they are filled with the Holy Spirit and are kept safe by the Lord from the enemy, the thief and robber who always desires to kill and destroy them.

While all the sheep in the fold have life, only those who follow the Good Shepherd have it abundantly. As Revelation says, "for the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and He will guide them to springs of living water; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes", (7:14).

Santana,

The law of Christ is that we forsake our old lives and the power behind it...the sin nature...in order to take in a new life that is created already holy. So we aren't to try being holy in our own strength....but rather seek to have God come and take away our old nature so as to place us in Christ. We then can walk in the Spirit just like Jesus and the apostles did.

But this takes faith and a whole-hearted commitment. If you pray for this...God will start preparing you for it. You must rejoice in all the subsequent trials He will send you...He is preparing you. If you remain faithful to your prayer, then God will be faithful to answer your prayer. We must be single minded and not give up.....ever.!

Pilgrim

Santana,

This passage is about going on unto perfection and notice the words “and this we will do, if God permit”.

Then he says these words “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and etc…”. Then after this he says “if they shall fall away” that God wouldn’t be able to renew them again to repentance, because they have gone on to perfection and have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost.

Keep in mind that the only way one can go to this perfection is, if God permits. It seems to me that this is a state that few men have ever been. It is close to a glorified state. I believe the apostles like Paul, Peter, and some others may have been close to this state, because they sure had the experience of the Holy Spirit to the point of even raising the dead. I mean people were walking in the shadow of Peter and were being healed.

Another thing is that the writer says right after the part of being rejected, that he was persuaded of better things for them. This is a deep passage but it is obvious that God would not just allow us to go to this state and fall away so that we would be lost forever. God knows the end from the beginning and he knows our being better than we do and will not permit us to go to this state of perfection without preparing us.

Also the fact that you are concerned about this could be a good thing, because it can cause you to seek God more, making sure of your calling and election. It can also cause you to be more sincere in your relationship with God, to grow in Christ so that he can entrust you more, so that He can permit more of the deeper things of the Spirit in you. I know that I need to seek Him and His kingdom more so that He can work more in me both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Spending more time in the prayer closet with God will cause us to do more good works, cause others to glorify God, and others will see the benefits God has lavished on us.

Blessings…from brother rbanks

hi pilgrim, the door of course is Jesus and Him crucified an the way through the door is death to self and being buried with Him and rising up in newness of life... we picture this event in baptism. dead men have no rule over the life that they possess for it is zoe life given by God that we have... we are a new creation... all things are past away and behold all things are new... we are seated with Him in heavenly places and are resting in this provision by Him who loved us while we were yet sinners... yea, who loved us from before the foundation of the world as we know it.my trust is not in my feeble commitment ;but in in His mighty power to save to the uttermost. He is the Lord and Master.. how could any human being who has been lifted from the dross of humanity, totally unworthy, and lifted to the throne room of God ever conceive of going out and sinning... a man does not stay faithfull to his wife because he is afraid to get caught; he is faithfull only when he loves his wife.50 years i have been serving the Lord and it is because i love Him who first loved me and gave Himself as the sin offering in my place.jimp

how could any human being who has been lifted from the dross of humanity, totally unworthy, and lifted to the throne room of God ever conceive of going out and sinning...

There are many reasons, jimp and at your age you should not only know this but have seen this many times. When most people are saved they are walking in the Spirit and close to God in fellowship and have power over sin but then they receive a doctrine that brings them into legalism and they fall from grace and lose their close relationship with the Lord and fall back into sin with bad habits. Then, they may have gotten offended one day as they are now walking in the flesh. An offense unforgiven turns to hatred, then hatred to bitterness and alienation and hardening of the heart. It's not a rose garden after you are saved. Along with the flesh and the world we have an adversary who is very good at destroying people.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, CONDEMNED sin in the flesh:

This does not say...JUSTIFIED or CONDONED sin...

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

There's that pesky reality of God again... Many think that Jesus condones sin by fulfilling the law instead of us. This is the opposite of the truth. Jesus Christ indeed fulfilled the law but this was in order to create a higher law and this in order to fulfill the law in US who walk by faith.

If you are saying that all backsliders and people that fall away from the faith never were saved, I would say you are wrong and that is usually what OSAS people say because it does not fit into their doctrine and frankly it doesn't agree with Scripture.

Jesus was brutally honest with the Rich Young Ruler and pretty much told him that he had to forsake all to follow Jesus but he could not forsake his love for riches. Now, let's just say he could forsake his love for riches and became truly born-again. Is he now suppose to continue in that calling of "forsaking all" and continue to follow Christ? I think you would say yes. Now, he will encounter trials and tribulations because as a Christian, God will bring them into his life to test and prove his heart and God uses trials to purify us and conform us to the image of Christ. Let's say, he gets tired of the "pain" of being a Christian and he also gets a hold of a doctrine that says, "once you get your ticket punched (saved) you really don't have to forsake all, or forgive everyone, or walk in love all the time". Do you think Jesus has one standard for people to get saved and then another standard for them after they get "saved"? Do you think Jesus just wants to get them in the door and getting them in the door requires stringent requirements but staying inside does not?

By the way, if you did not catch it earlier, the doctrine that says salvation is a one time event is not something Jesus or the Apostles taught. Salvation is also a continuiing process. We don't have to pay for any of our past sins, but we still have to repent for present and future sins and we still have to forsake all IF WE WANT TO BE HIS DISCIPLE, right? I am sure you would agree.

We are in sync everywhere except when you start implying that once a person is saved they really don't have to abide in Christ or walk in the Spirit, because they believed once a long time ago, that they became a card carrying member of the Hallelujah Club, because they confessed something or prayed a prayer.

Now, if you are not implying this, then tell me what happens to a person that draws back from the Lord and basically forfeits his salvation by refusing to forsake all and abide in Christ. (I already said it. He forfeits his salvation. He rejects grace.)

So, you think every couple that ever got divorced, never really loved each other? You don't account for trials or tribulations in their marriage, or offenses or unforgiveness building up over the years and hardening their hearts? Come on Jimp, you've been around too long to expect me to believe that.

Here is the bottom line: Jesus and sin don't mix.

Yes, He is our provision when we get saved and He is our provision when we sin as we learn to walk this new walk, but we can draw back and many decide to do just that. And they have been taught that it's ok, because afterall they are sons and will never lose their status with God. That is a false security jimp and that's why the Lord tells us through James to warn believers with this mentality and that if they turn them back to the Lord we have saved a SOUL FROM DEATH. Not a body from death, but a SOUL.

Pilgrim

the word condemned is krino. in the first verse in that chapter it says their is no more judgement or condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. the doctrine is not osas ... it is the eternal security of the BELIEVER (one who is dieing daily and continueing in the faith)if you fall ; as the verse in the blog says it is impossible to come to repentance for Jesus would have to come back and die for you again. hope you don't fall. have faith in God.jimp

this verse scares me so much. I just need to wake up and get strong and walk in Faith I guess.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

In our culture we have been programmed to think individualistically. It doesn’t help that our religious influence has used the cliché “PERSONAL salvation” – something which you don’t see in scripture. And so we transport this mental pre-set into these scriptures in Hebrews. We are bound to distort our exegesis when we apply an individualistic interpretation to a verse that speaks about a corporate people.

God has indeed given us a better way. It’s now here among us – for today, not some distant age! And there is no other Plan. There is no Plan C for those who reject the better promise through Christ.

Do you trust him – his New Covenant promise?

Diane

Yes, the Believer has Eternal Security, no doubt.

Does the Unbeliever have Eternal Security?

And what assurance does a lifestyle of sin give?

There is no provision for a religion that believes in Jesus but still walks according to the flesh.

God treats us all the same. What is supposed to make a Christian such is that he walks according to the Spirit and love against which there is no law. The law of God is not wrong or evil...it is the law of God. There is nothing wrong or evil in God. But the law itself does not empower the man to fulfill it...it rather shows up his sin. So Jesus came to enable men ..through faith...to apprehend His life that He walked in on earth. So we have a proven Saviour and a proven way (through grace) that we can follow in order to be holy as God is holy. That is the gospel.

Pilgrim

Hebrews 6:4-6 and 10:26-31.
I would hope to extend help and comfort to any sincere Christian brothers and sisters who have suffered insecurity regarding their salvation after reading the above scriptural passages from The Letter to Hebrews.
I was consumed with fear and a deep sense of dread after reading them at a time when I had experienced failure in the face of temptation and had sinned. After reading I experienced the worst kind of fear and consuming dread I had ever experienced. I searched everything for reassurance, read all I could for some sort of comfort that I had not lost 'everything', but for a long time I continued to be tormented and crippled by an insecurity that had crept into my soul. I had lost all confidence in my salvation. I could not pray, praise or read my Bible. My misery continued for several months until in desperation I eventually prayed an anguished prayer that the Lord would help me in some way if there was a shred of hope left for me. Soon after I prayed I was searching SermonIndex for some sort of help and I came upon a message by A.W. Tozer with the title 'Hebrews - Sin Willfully - No repentance'. The title read terrifyingly, but since I already felt condemned and as though my condition couldn't get any worse I opened the message with my heart in my mouth. As I listened it was as though the Lord reached into my soul and comforted, reassured and blessed me with the peace of knowing the truth. Please listen to this healing message. A.W.Tozer has thorough understanding of these scriptures and his message was for me as the balm of Gilead. I pray that you too will be released from any torment or confusion you may be experiencing and that like me, you be once again filled with the confidence and joy of your salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ.

I once deposited $1000 in a bank which is the most secured bank in this world. No one can Rob this bank, and they give me so much interest that I gain so much from this deposit. But suddenly one day I decided to withdraw the money to please myself and they prompty gave back what I deposited. Now I want to sue this bank because it is not safe as it says it is. My money is now not with them and they stopped paying me interest. Please show me a lawyer who is willing to take my case and sue the bank. No lawyer with sense will take my case. May be some posters here will support me.

Same will be the case of those who took their life control back to their hands and decided to live a self pleasing sinfull life style. They may call Jesus insecure like how this guy who once deposited money is calling the bank but the truth is not with them. Holy spirit never possess people, he is a gentle spirit. But only evil spirit possess man and will never let him go even if he wishes to part.

Modern Christians have a profound disconnect from the Old Covenant Scriptures. Regarding Hebrews 6:4-6 and 10:23-31, these passages are constantly distorted one way or another to not apply to Christians. But even a light review of the passages show it would have been impossible for Old Covenant Jews to do what is spoken of:

Hebrews 6:4,5 says they:
1) were once enlightened
2) have tasted of the heavenly gift
3) were made partakers of the Holy Spirit
4) have tasted the good Word of God
5) have tasted the powers of the world to come
Does this not sound like those who had been familiar with what only we New Covenant believers can experience as new creations in Christ?

Hebrews 10 is even clearer by saying:

He who despised Moses' Law died without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment do you suppose, will he be thought worthy of punishment, [clearly the fate Jews despising Moses' law is then contrasted with the worse fate New Covenant believers, who do the following:]

-trampled the Son of God (only Christians can trample on the blood of Christ that sanctified them!!)

-who have counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing (the blood of the Covenant is Christ's blood, Old Covenant sacrifices pointing forward to it, anh the blood of Christ being the reality of it, and notice, they were sanctified by that blood!)

-and have insulted the Spirit of grace? (Only a Christian can insult this grace we now know under Christ!)

If it is not discussing the New Covenant saints, who then are these people who are worthy of worse punishment than the Old Covenant saints suffered?

Peter is even clearer,by refering to those who, "after they escaped the pollutions of the world through the FULL KNOWLEDGE of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have FULLY KNOWN the way of righteousness, than, after they have FULLY KNOWN it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them, " 2 Peter 2:20, 21.

These people had:
-escaped the pollutions of the world
-not just knowledge of the Jesus Christ, three times he says they had epignosis [full knowledge] of Christ, and twice it is said they had epignosis of the way of righteousness. How can all this possibly apply to non-Christians?

Specifically and clearly these passages can only refer to Christians who once knew our Father well, and who were once well acquainted with the working of His heavenly gifts in and through them, and they turned away. But many, many passages foretell the destruction of the merely fruitless branches. We know from the over 50 references to fruitful lives, that fruit bearing can only be referring to Christians.

Instead of busily giving comfort to those (or ourselves) who have never turned from sin, or have willfully turned back to sin, we should instead be meditating on the Word of God, depending on the Word and Spirit of God to instruct us, rather than mere men. We must be very careful to set aside our doctrine and dogma to be like the honorable Bereans who searched the Scriptures to know whether these things (what was taught them) are true or not.

Did Christ go through all He suffered to leave us sinful? Are we not really new creations in Christ? Did he not, as the second Adam, provide a way of restoration to that state? Was He joking when He told us to be holy? When He told us to seek His righteousness, did He send us on an empty quest? Yes, there is an imputed righteousness, but does that mean we can not attain any practical righteousness?

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I will give them one heart, and I will put a new Spirit within you. And I will remove the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh, SO THAT THEY MAY WALK IN MY STATUTES AND KEEP MY ORDINANCES, AND DO THEM. And they shall be My people, and I will be their God. -Ezekiel 11:19, 20 [This IS the essence of the New Covenant - Spirit enablement to be truly Christlike!]

As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance, but according to the Holy One who has called you, you also become holy in all conduct, because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." 1 Peter 1:14-16

Who shall go up into the hill of Jehovah? Or who shall stand in His holy place? He who has clean hands (godly works) and a pure heart (a godly mind), Psalm 24:3,4

For the sake of all apostates and those who have never turned from their sin, I hope the once saved always saved theology is right. For myself, I choose to believe we can live on a higher ethereal plane, and in believing that, I hope to achieve it.