I've been battling this recently, something that I never had before.
Can the devil actually make your heart extremely pained to the point that you hardly can bear it.
Initially I thought it was God but now I'm not so sure, so would want to know whether the devil can do it so that I know better how to approach the situation in which I'm facing.
Thanks.
Are you speaking of physical pain, or spiritual?
spiritual pain
Hi! 'Learn'
You asked, "Can the devil actually make your heart extremely pained to the point that you hardly can bear it?"
Ummm, I've never thought about this sort of thing previously. Neither is it that I can say that I've experienced such a thing for for myself.
But when your question resounded in my heart, I was immediately reminded of the Scripture saying, "And he sighed deeply in his spirit", (Jesus).
Afterwards, I hurried over to BlueLetterBible.org and looked up the intrinsic meaning behind the words "sighed deeply" and discovered the following: to draw up deep sighs from the bottom of the breast, to sigh deeply .
There is another reference which I found to be similar and that is Mark 7:34, "And looking up to heaven, he sighed", (Jesus).
I hope this might be of some help to you, 'Learn'.
Hi learn!
I need to tell you first, that I have truly and sincerely appreciated your spirit on this forum. I've wanted to say that before, but have been going in several directions since I've moved to my new home. My Dad and trying to stay in touch with folks almost around the globe. I don't have all the wherewithall neither the physical strength to always do it nor 'say' everything that I'm feeling inside because of the rush of it. Can barely get the out the words I'd like to put things in neither. But have felt convicted to tell you what I opened this paragraph with, indeed.
To ask or answer a question like this - we need to go to The Bible and seek our answers from there Only, for our own protection against human opinions based on human-experiences alone.
Through-out the Old Testament, can you tell someone where and under what conditions was the enemy spoken about?
Then next, we go to the New Testament and see, where and under what conditions the enemy was spoken about.
Do we have any great Prophets of GOD in the Old Testament that were "physically afflicted or in deep warfare" with an invisible "devil" or just humans attacking them?
In the New Testament - do we have any 'True' Christians, such as our Apostles, recorded there, that were physically or invisibly attacked by the enemy - either in their body or spiritually?
These are important questions to ask ourselves as we should know His Word and what the enemy 'can and can't do' to a genuine Child of GOD!
Something is bothering 'you'. You're picking up on something that is troubling your spirit/heart. I recommend that you read the Psalms and cry [literally] to GOD and ask Him to show you what is troubling your spirit. And I don't mean "demons" ... I mean that something is bothering you, yourself and only praying in the spirit, crying out alone to GOD will reveal what you're sensing or feeling in your heart and that will cause you to grow wiser/sronger in Christ, once He reveals to your heart, what is troubling you.
I call these times, "growing pains". Times of deeper 'revelation' from GOD.
Take it or leave it - but that's my reply.
Please stay with what The Word says about anything having to do with 'the enemy' - for Jesus' sake.
Col 1:16 For By Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created By Him, and For Him...
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.
Will be praying for you, dear Saint!
In the love of Christ Jesus our LORD and very Protective 'Good' Shepherd.
learn,
The Lord is always bringing us into deeper areas of death in our self-life and in the holy management of our private thoughts. He does this gently, through the gradual increase of light in the secret areas of our heart. As more light increases, the more the mess of our unmortifed "fleshly nature" is revealed and exhorted to be put under the submission of the Spirit of God. This submission is accomplished via a mutual collaboration: by our spirits acquiescing to God's influence to overcome the flesh's power through grace. When we "cool off" and become lackadaisical in our upkeep of the new man's vitality, our girded mind begins to slip and our conscience, which is allied to God, sets off an alarm. This alarm will keep going off until the fire is put out.
The Lord uses the devil to wreak havoc in our minds, to tempt our souls, and to torment us with the grand design to drive us back to Christ's blood and to once again submit to His Spirit's dominion in our lives. He uses Satan like a tool in this regard. The fact that your heart "pains" is the deepest evidence that He cares for you. It is the effects of His on-going school of sanctification, which affords us priceless lessons to last for all eternity. When we start to drift, God brings a satanic storm to generate waves of pain to drive our vessels back to the shores of Christ. The waves of pain should always bring you back to ground zero: to a safe and dry Calvary.
Brother Paul
That is well stated, Paul.
Satan's oppression can cause much pain and yes he is God's tool to bring that pain for our hearts to be tested.
Pilgrim
Satan's oppression can cause much pain and yes he is God's tool to bring that pain for our hearts to be tested.
I've written a book that is sort of a little instruction booklet on spiritual warfare. It gives answers as to why born-again Christians suffer in the secret place of the heart. It sheds light on Satan's advancements through the ungirded mind with the aim to establish a stronghold in the heart. Strongholds are excruciatingly painful, and only God's power can get rid of them. But once they are gone, if we are not careful to keep our hearts and minds with all diligence, they can come back. The book I wrote explains the process by which they come, and then by which we are delivered from them, and by what means we are protected from becoming re-infected.
It is available here: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Mortification-The-Pathway-Victory/dp/147017460X
But if you cannot afford it, please just email me and I'll send the manuscript to you free of charge. I believe every Christian needs to have this information; it will save you and the ones you love a massive amount or heartache and grief.
God bless and keep you in Christ's love.
Brother Paul
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.
I have a question on the use of the word "stronghold[s]".
Could you give New Testament evidence of such a phenomena.
The word itself, is only used once in Paul's writing, where he was using that word as "arguments" against himself.
But in regards to "sin" in general, through-out the New Testament - I only see commands to 'stop'.
Could you please back this 'principle' of "strongholds" with the Scriptures that confirm this belief to you?
Thank you!!
The word itself, is only used once in Paul's writing, where he was using that word as "arguments" against himself.
Strongholds - or fortresses - are "cast down" through the weaponry of God. In order for them to be broken down, they must first be built up. This is why I make a distinction between "stronghold sinning" and impulsive sinning. Impulsive sinning (i.e. a hasty word) can be immediately repented of and forsaken without emerging into a pattern. Stronghold sinning is a trap that dooms one to repeat over and over again. It is a dark spiritual addiction.
I understand you are a woman. If you would like to see a very real definition of a stronghold, speak with a Christian man who is under the power of internet pornography and hates it with all his might. He prays, he groans, he tries, he wills to stop. But he can't. Its claws are entrenched in his mind. A fight with his wife could spring it, or stress at work, or a failure of some sort. It's a "besetting sin" with claws sinking deep into his mind and taking root. He desperately tries to thwart its rearing, cries out to God to have mercy on him as he shamefully gives in again and again. It is a fortress of lust, a controlling spiritual principle embedded in his mind, a poisonous escape hatch from the reality of his miserable spiritual life. But he hates it and would do anything to be free from it. For others it can be food, alcohol, drugs, violent outbursts. I am speaking for born-again believers, mind you, and not heathen.
But in regards to "sin" in general, through-out the New Testament - I only see commands to 'stop'
Men and women who have been in bondage to strongholds know what I am talking about, and they can tell you all about it. They can also tell you how wonderful it was when God at last freed them. It had nothing to do with them "stopping"; God showered them with grace, broke the devil's power in their mind, and swept their heart clean. Now, they can "stop" when the old temptations come to re-erect new strongholds, because they war from inside a clean heart and pure conscience. They can keep the "strongman" from re-invading. Once he is in, however, they need deliverance. Mere "stopping" cannot work at this point. And even if they are able to stop the physical manifestations; the inner heart is already infected and seething with the grips of secret lust.
Hope this helps.
Thank you for your reply, Paul. I do understand the battle of flesh and spirit mentioned in Gal 5 and Rom 8 but in context of 2Corth 10, the whole of that chpt is Paul needing to defend his ministry.
I'm looking for scripture that proves out your belief in sin becoming a "stronghold" and where the person has a "strongman" and that "once he is in, however, they need deliverance."
Brother, I'm truly not challenging you - I just can't find any Scripture to back this about "sin" - and that's breaking my heart - please understand.
Brother, I'm truly not challenging you - I just can't find any Scripture to back this about "sin" - and that's breaking my heart - please understand.
It only means this is for someone else right now, and not you.
God bless,
Brother Paul
I have a reason for asking, Brother Paul. I do know the verse about "a root of bitterness" but could you help me find the one about "besetting sins"? I typed it into a KJV search and it's not coming up.
Maybe, if I post to you what I had asked another member, you could also answer this for me...
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Would you say that this person was at one time saved but now is not, if they die in this condition? Or were they never saved? The word "recover" is why I'm asking.
RE:// but could you help me find the one about "besetting sins"? //
Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily ((beset)) us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
For many years I have felt led to pray for revival in our community-my wife and myself also minister to people to whom the Lord leads us who may not necessarily come from pretty situations. We have experienced demonic attacks against our minds, our bodies, our home and even our property which we share very little about to others because we would be considered insane if we would. If we leave the comfortable confines of religious mediocracy and immerse ourselves into the battle for God's Kingdom, I believe that we can expect to stir up an enraged "waspsnest" in the kingdom of darkness because we pose a threat to their dominion. There is no trite theological formula for every situation that we are confronted with-as was the case with Job or Daniel; we cannot see what is taking place in the spiritual realm, even though we may feel its reverbations. That is when we need to take on the armour of prayer and come to the God Who is sufficient for all things to seek specific direction and Divine protection. If we have never endured the fierce heat of the battle it can be all too easy to have neat "Biblical" theories about spiritual warfare. The Spirit never leads us contrary to the Word but we need His direct leading with the Word.
Thank you, PaPa. I'm fitting puzzle pieces together and appreciate your help!
Robertson's [Greek]: "The sin which doth so easily beset us (te¯n euperistaton hamartian). “The easily besetting sin.” There are a dozen possible renderings of this double compound verbal from eu, well, and periiste¯mi, to place around or to stand around (intransitive). The Vulgate has circumstans nos peccatum (the sin standing around us). Probably this is the true idea here, “the easily encompassing (or surrounding) sin.” In this case apostasy from Christ was that sin. In our cases it may be some other sin. The verbal adjective reminds one of the ring of wild beasts in the jungle that encircle the camp-fire at night each ready to pounce upon a careless victim."
Vincent's [Greek] - "And the sin which doth so easily beset (καὶ τὴν ευπερίστατον αμαρτίαν)
Καὶ adds to the general encumbrance a specific encumbrance or hindrance. Ευπερίστατος N.T.o , olxx, oClass. From ευ readily, deftly, cleverly, and περιΐ̀στασθαι to place itself round. Hence, of a sin which readily or easily encircles and entangles the Christian runner, like a long, loose robe clinging to his limbs. Beset is a good rendering, meaning to surround. In earlier English especially of surrounding crowns, etc., with jewels.
The sin may be any evil propensity. The sin of unbelief naturally suggests itself here."
Brother beekpr - I went off this site to get away to pray but couldn't shake the burden I feel to speak to you. Please understand that I don't desire to upset you in any way whatsoever and that is why I hesitated to post this to you.
You and your wife need to learn your Authority in Christ.
I've dealt with multiple cases of demon possessed people and I will tell you why The LORD allowed that to be a part of my life .... so that I would learn what power demons DON'T have over a blood-washed and bought Saint, that is in His Will.
They have No Power but what we imagine they have or yeild/give them - unless we are in rebellion of any kind.
IF the enemy knows that you don't Fully know who you are in Christ - he'll gainsay over you as you've described.
I've had demons come at me from every angle that one can name and as I learned "through Scripture" where I stand in Christ and where they stand with Christ - I finally came to realize that if the Apostles didn't have these types of phenomena - then neither should we.
The enemy loves to spook people that go outside of Scripture, as far as giving the enemy more authority than what he has - and The LORD will allow it, until we go to His Word and learn from the prophets and the apostles what the enemy can and can't do.
The "neat Biblical theories" work - If they are indeed "Biblical" - but many people go beyond what is written and are personally attacked and GOD allows it, because they have believed "a lie" Beyond "what is written".
You have to get to the point that you only depend on His Word and the experiences of the Saints 'in The Word'.
Pride of one's ministry will open the door to these types of phenomena and also ignorance of our authority in Christ Jesus, From The Word of GOD alone.
Show me where in The WORD of GOD that any of these occurences have happened to those that posed the Greatest Danger to Satan's Kingdom - starting from the book of Acts on - or anywhere else that you choose to start... ""We have experienced demonic attacks against our minds, our bodies, our home and even our property""
What I did in my early years [very early 80's] of dealing with this type of phenomena, because of the ministry I had been called to, was to hand-write into a notebook, all the verses that proclaim who we are In Christ.
'Any' phenomena that is not found happening to a Saint in The Word of GOD, is a phenomena that we should 'instantly' reject. Resist and it will flee because the enemy has no grounds to these areas you've noted - but if we believe the lie from him or self, that he does have this authority or have ground or authority to these areas of our lives, he'll play havoc and all the more as we enter into the last days.
Why we're not to go beyond what is written.
His Peace to you and yours and my prayers!
Sounds like a burden of the Lord more than something from the devil.Can the devil actually make your heart extremely pained to the point that you hardly can bear it?
It would be nice if you could explain what your feeling.
Does this spiritual pain 'feel' overwhelming, are you easily moved to tears when you talk about the Lord? Do you have an urgent need to pray? If you have any of these, I'd say it's what we call a burden of the Lord.
I've had them before but not often. The last one was during 9/11 and I had no idea what was transpiring in New York City at the time until afterward but I felt this overwhelming need to pray and to weep. I had another one a few years prior to that and It 'felt' like a heavy blanket was on me and I knew the presence of God was around me and anyone that came into that radius felt something and the conversation changed to a holiness which I can't explain not even to this day. Sometimes you can pray when that happens other times you just have to wait it out and allow the Lord to do what He desires to do with you.
There is another explanation and has nothing to do with the devil.
1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Initially I thought it was God but now I'm not so sure, so would want to know whether the devil can do it so that I know better how to approach the situation in which I'm facing.
That reminds me of the blind man in the gospel account. Some people were (seemingly) trying to get at the root of this problem, so they asked Jesus: “Jesus, who sinned this man or his parents?” The answer to that question was irrelevant. What was important was that God would be glorified through this blindness. And that’s just what happened when Jesus restored his sight.
Likewise, in your case, my friend. Through whatever is happening in your life, may God work in such a way that you come to enjoy a far grander sense of God; and may he be glorified through it all.
Diane
Thank you all.
Paul West--I'm going to send you an email for the manuscript. Thanks for the kind offer.
JIG-Thanks for your prayer and kind words.
I have only read some posts here. Will need to read and meditate/ponder on the posts for a while to see how/what I need to do before posting. Pray for strength and that I will look unto Jesus-the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2)
Hi! 'Approved'
Your comments here struck me as being very wise.
You sought needed clarification by asking, "It would be nice if you could explain what your feeling".
You then proceeded to ask, "Does this spiritual pain 'feel' overwhelming, are you easily moved to tears when you talk about the Lord? Do you have an urgent need to pray?"
I was very impressed by your quiet and inquiring disposition; you didn't rush to judgement.
It was only after presenting the above questions when you volunteered your personal opinion, "If you have any of these, I'd say it's what we call a burden of the Lord".
Indeed, a very wise posture you showed.
I was becoming rather anxious after reading some other responses which seemed to be in far too great a hurry to judge the experience as devilish.
Frankly, none of us knows what occurs in a person's "hidden man of the heart". Because of that, we should tread carefully and sensitively ... and even sensibly, as you have done.
Ok, I've read all the posts but am still thinking things through and would want to read Paul West's manuscript first (thanks Paul--have received it).
However, I can answer Approved's post off the bat right now and am excited on 1 thing that Approved wrote although it has nothing to do with my current predicament.
[Approved wrote :
I had another one a few years prior to that and It 'felt' like a heavy blanket was on me and I knew the presence of God was around me and anyone that came into that radius felt something and the conversation changed to a holiness which I can't explain not even to this day.]
This is something that has caught my eye. I've wept before and afterwards immediately felt yes, a 'dark dreadful gloom' like Genesis 15:12 (As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him.)
Everytime this happens (which only happens in my room), I quickly 'stir away from my crying' because I'm afraid it might be the devil. Just being cautious. Wow, its interesting to have read your experience. Not sure though whether I'm brave enough to try this out the next time it happens. Thanks a lot for sharing that.
--
Approved,I know what you mean by the other paragraphs on crying and so on. Yes, I do cry when the Lord decides to give it to me. But no, this is not the case here. Its not even another type of grieving the spirit when you sin because I've experienced it and its nowhere that painful.
---
With regards to explaining more of the situation, well its more complicated and I don't feel comfortable in sharing it. I know you all are trying to help but this is something that I just can't share currently. I'll read Paul West's manuscript and the bible and decide how to proceed from there.
Thanks.
Hi! 'Beekpr'
I first read this comment of yours yesterday. I didn't think that I could offer anything of value and so I never responded.
Then afterwards, I read a reply from member 'Jesus-Is-God' which was directed to you. I found its content most distressing.
But still, I left the matter rest and never chose to reply to either yourself nor to member 'Jesus-Is-God'.
Today, I returned once again and bumped into your comment. And I wish to pointedly reply to it, please.
Ephesians 6:12 has always remained a constant source of debate and much confusion within Christian circles. But in our present day, there is something becoming even more strikingly obvious too. It is the vicious opposition against those who would expose the powers and speak about triumphing over them.
So it is that I fully comprehend the meaning behind your saying, "We share very little about to others because we would be considered insane if we would".
'Beekpr', you also wrote, "I believe that we can expect to stir up an enraged "wasp-nest" in the kingdom of darkness because we pose a threat to their dominion".
And therein is the key! Those who pose no threat to the enemies of God and man will continue to live happily in "the comfortable confines of religious mediocrity", as you so eloquently stated it.
Not surprisingly, those who have chosen to live in what you named as 'religious mediocrity' are the very people who show such accusatory viciousness and offence against those who refuse to compromise with the enemy.
'Beekpr', I wish to remind you of Matthew 18:7, "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"
The spirit of offence is in sharp contrast to the Spirit of love Who is earnest to cover everything; to cover a multitude of sins. It is the spirit of offence which so often causes a rift between Christian people because it is preoccupied with disclosing and highlighting someone's wickedness or supposed error.
When we take offence at someone, we disengage ourselves from him; we accuse him of something. But our Jesus behaved quite differently.
The spirit of offence desires nothing about reconciliation. It becomes easily irritated with those who might trespass against them.
But Jesus did not take offence with anyone. For example, even though He knew what was in man, Jesus tolerated Judas who was a thief and a traitor. In fact, Jesus continued to have a relaxed fellowship with Judas and, even at the latest possible moment, Jesus insisted to call Judas "friend".
Indeed, clearly Jesus loved His disciples to the very end. The apostle John wrote: "He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no offence in him".
Not surprisingly too, irritation and offence-taking always includes exaggeration, a propensity to speak warped opinions and views. After all, in the eyes of an offended/irritated man, things which are perhaps bad become even more so; even risking to graduate into 'scandal'.
Jesus said, "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out". Control this spirit of offence. Because behind it are always the dark powers of violence.
"If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off!".
Disengage yourself from that spirit which attempts to make you act without self-control and responsibility. Such thoughts and acts are no longer guided by the Holy Spirit but by the spirit of offence.
He who takes offence loses his godly respect and regard for his fellow man. He lifts himself up above the other and judges him with contempt. But Jesus said: "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones".
Look around you. It's nearly always the exaggeration of trifling matters which the dark powers of offence use to separate husband from wife, parents from children and brothers and sisters from each other in the family of God.
It is always the irritated man who loses his love and compassion for the other who is fighting a heavy spiritual battle. He knows nothing about mercy being a divine quality!
For instance, when parents take offence at their child, they fail to protect him and remain unable to keep it safe; instead express contempt for the little one. They despise the little one by heaping on him the heavy burden of their offence and irritation.
In the same way, we too must be careful not to reveal irritation towards those who are little in faith and towards those who are having spiritual struggles. This is especially important when we are meeting young Christians who are still working at the first principles, the building up of the foundation, and need time to grow in grace.
So it is that we must be careful and not to take offence at any of our brothers and sisters both in the natural and in the spiritual world.
Jesus spoke a twofold woe:
First, over the world because of large and small offences. The spirit of offence does not belong in the Kingdom of God because its atmosphere aims at peace, righteousness and joy. Second, Jesus spoke of the man who readily lets himself be used by the spirit of offence and irritation. Such a man undermines the unity and strength of both home and church because the spirit of offence hinders the working of love which unites.
A man in whom the offences are being manifested is preoccupied with identifying his brother with evil instead of separating him from it. Instead of helping, healing and creating the atmosphere of the Holy Spirit, he threatens and upbraids.
Not surprising again, those who are bound by religious spirits most often will also have an accompanying spirit of irritation as well. Cain had this kind of religious spirit when he became angry that his sacrifice was not accepted by the Lord. Cain took offence at Abel, his brother, although Abel had not said a wrong word to nor against him.
Because of this attitude the Lord asked Cain a remarkably pointed question: "Cain, why are you angry and why has your countenance fallen?"
Yes, why was his face distorted? Why was he offended by Abel's apparent happiness and righteousness? That was none of his business.
God showed Cain this spirit of offence and irritation, this hate without a cause. Why didn't he just leave his brother alone?
Our Lord asked the pious religious leaders of the Jews, "Why do you seek to kill Me?"
Lacking discernment, the crowd replied, "You are possessed!", (John 7:19-20).
But afterwards, even Pilate had to admit that the 'pious' Jews had delivered Him up out of envy and malice. No wonder that Paul wrote that our gospel was a stumbling block for these Jews.
Dear Blayne,
Don't you know by now what a blessing you are in this forum? I'll be the first to admit that I'm guilty of what Blayne has described. Thank you.
ETA: I believe I found the answer already to my question ie as per above. Thank you everyone.
PS : Paul, I will still read your manuscript and write the comments--just maybe not as soon as expected.
Hi! 'Learn'
Ummm, please don't be getting ideas that I'm sum kinna' super-unfailing Christian 'er whatever, ay? I truly am only a struggling but determined Christian as is the norm for most of us.
Now that I got that sincere pleading out of the way ...
I try most times to write/comment in here from personal experience. And so, my comments about the 'spirit of offence' are also from personal experience.
Yuh see, 'Learn', when I first heard the Gospel, I was reminded of a man where I had once worked who was always talking about Jesus and I mocked him constantly at the time.
So, I became very excited about finding this former fellow employee to tell him about my new found Life and about how sorry I was about my past behavior towards him.
It took me a few weeks to track him down and we arranged to meet on a Sunday before Service at his Pentecostal church.
I'll never forget that day.
I was so happy and pleased to meet him and to tell him about my Salvation. I so much wished to become his friend and brother.
Sadly, this did not happen.
The man smelled the odor of cigarette smoke on my clothing and murmured, "You're not saved! Yer still smoking!". And with that, he turned his back to me and briskly walked away.
As you can imagine, I was crushed by this event. It took me a very long time to recover from his offended reaction.
Of course, it's not as if I thought that the man should have been congratulating me for my inability to quit smoking. But I never suspected that he should disown me because of it.
What the man did not know was that my addiction to cigarettes was the very least of my problems at the time. I had a knife placed at my throat only a few weeks earlier for my refusing to continue in criminal activities. Especially the early days of my Christian walk were both dangerous and difficult for me.
Anyways, 'Learn', I too can still be found guilty of becoming offended by someone or something; it's not always an easy thing to triumph over. But that we must ... so we brush off our sandals again and move on and pray to do better the next opportunity to react in the Spirit of Jesus.
Have you mentioned my name and gone off the topic, Blayne?
I don't understand your post that mentions mine because it goes off into a direction diabolically different than what direction my post was pointing to.
Again, between you and I - "don't go beyond what is written".
Your verse, in context:
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Eph 6:21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
Eph 6:22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.
Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 6:24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
Amen!
Blayne,
No worries. I started 'noticing' you after your testimony in mguldner's thread. Someone that I could learn from as you are way advanced than me spiritually. I do not follow you around and there are some posts of yours which I do not understand what you are saying and some posts of yours that I do not read.
I've tried refraining from thanking you more because than it can become a snare to you. Anyway I also know this, that if you become prideful, God will humble you in due time (hopefully I'm not the culprit that cause it).
LOL, do you feel deflated by now.
But seriously you should share more of your experiences as it can help others in this forum.
Learn.
Strongholds are faulty thinking based on lies and deception from the Enemy. We all know that our Enemy uses deception and his deception has a purpose. Deception is one of his primary weapons and they are the building blocks for a stronghold. Strongholds are designed to keep us from the freedom and liberty that we have in Christ.
Example:
A stronghold at work would be like someone who is afraid of God and has a hard time sensing his love and presence and resting in His peace. They view Him as a cruel taskmaster, and not as the God that really loves them. This fear causes them to put up a wall which makes it harder for them to receive God's love and draw close to Him.
If you bring it down to a level that any married person can relate to then you can understand this a bit better. If your spouse was rude and cruel to you, always treating you badly and putting you down you would not be too apt to want to be held in their arms and love them as you would if they were loving and kind to you. If you perceive someone as hurtful and mean it is hard to receive their love, isn't it?
With God, we know that this would be a false perception based on a lie for He is loving and kind. When we receive a lie from Satan about God's character it will affect how we function in life with God and with others. This is a stronghold that keeps us from living victoriously in Christ.
Seeing God incorrectly and wondering how He views you is one of the most devastating strongholds that people live under. People who see God as a taskmaster, live their lives with an unhealthy fear of God. There is a "clean" fear of God which is a healthy respect for Him, but there is a another fear of Him that sees Him as a cruel, distant taskmaster. This fear paralyzes people and keeps them from trying to interact with the Lord at all. Satan has completed his mission when he accomplishes this in someone's life. Satan wants to make people think that they have committed the unpardonable sin. People that think this way are almost guaranteed to have a stronghold of a spirit of fear amongst other things.
The other debilitating stronghold is how people see themselves. People that suffer under this stronghold have a hard time seeing who they are in Christ. They have received a religious doctrine (lies) that teach them they can never do enough for God and that they must always strive to earn His love. They don't understand what Christ did for them, and how it applies to their own life. They suffer from guilty feelings and always questioning if they have been forgiven of their sins. They lack the spiritual confidence that they should have in the Lord Jesus. Overall, they don't feel worthy spiritually and they lack joy in their life.
2 Corinthians 10:4, "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds."
Strongholds are birthed and dwell in deception (which are lies and false beliefs), and the cure is to bring the truth of God's Word on the scene.
Jesus said, "If you continue in My Word", not only will you be my disciples but My Word will set you free".
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Start now, breaking down those strongholds by understanding that God is for you and not against you and that He wants you to be completely free to relate to Him and to others in love. He wants you to be free to receive LOVE from HIM, and to Give Love to others.
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
This was and still is the ministry of Jesus. Not only that, but this ministry is what each Believer is called to as Jesus desires to live through us to set others free. That is how we walk in His steps.
Pilgrim
I've had a great deal of experience in spiritual pain...much of which I'd like to avoid again. Whether it is a burden to pray, feeling someone else's conviction, or my own sins it always goes away when I respond to the Holy Spirit. I agree with Watchman Nee, spiritual pain is worse than physical pain to me also.
The common pain evil spirits have caused in me has been a jabbing pain that is intense and unrelenting. It feels like its more outside of my spirit where as the Holy Spirit is more interior when I feel pain from Him that need's a response. This pain from the enemy is isolated to one spot like from a jabbing stick...it can also be very annoying because it is unrelenting. This particular pain is not accompanied by emotions or anxiety...although I've had other's that are more despairing which has been to me a harder attack to recover from or defend.
I have learned from Watchman Nee's "Spiritual Man" and some of Jesse Penn-Lewis' work on what these are and what to do. Both of these saints recorded the common experience of the saints in their time's testimonies of spiritual warfare. I don't know what you are going through, but I believe it is consistant that if it is the Lord He will either lead you to what he is desiring, help you see sin if needed or He is kind enough to leave you be and try again later. If it is a demon they are more apt to stop when you are convinced they are the culprits and you don't back down, but pray fervently and wrestle against them in your spirit pressing against them with your spirit.
It is good that you have a sensitive spirit.
Hi! 'ZionShield'
Wow! It seems that I've been having to say, "Thanks!", to a lot of people at SI today.
Anyways, I just read your comments seconds ago and it was the final sentence which deeply impressed me; saying, "It is good that you have a sensitive spirit".
That is jus' so VERY true, ay? "A sensitive spirit" .... your advice contains much wisdom.
Thanks!
You've helped with my question about the use of that term "strongholds", Pilgrim.
Biblically, we would call that "believing a lie" and "no lie is of the Truth" and "the Truth shall set men free".
I've seen the use of that term "stronghold" used as an "excuse" to continue in sin - the person saying that "the devil has them bound" - when in actuality - they themselves have believed a lie against His Word that "makes excuses" for their pet sin or pet false doctrine.
I've known prime examples of this in men with sexual sins - it's not the devil that has them bound, but they've concocted a favorite "excuse" of why they can continue in viewing pornography. They have a false view of GOD and a false view of their standing with GOD.
They either have gone the way of "nobody's perfect"/'easy believism' or else they feel that they're so spiritual in every other way, that "just being a man with one weakness" is out-weighed by the great spiritual image that they can fane in front of others. "The lie" is their "excuse" for continuing in sin and only "The Truth" can set them free ... and not some deliverance service to cast out some "devil" -- which is Also someone else to blame as their excuse to keep on.... Like Flip Wilson used to say mockingly toward Christians, "The devil made me do it."
I've known alcoholics, that whenever ANYTHING would happen, they'd say immediately, "I NEED a drink." The "anything that happens" gives their mind the excuse and justification for why they 'can' drink.
Pride is the root of all sin and loving GOD is the antidote. But loving GOD involves loving His Truth - to the nth degree.
He has no favorites, in that, some are so favored and godly in every other way that HE allows them to indulge in pornography... but yet, these men "believe a lie" against GOD's stand on these things and the "stronghold" as they call it - is in truth, them "believing a lie".... oh but how convienent to blame their sin on the devil.
Whenever any of us believes a lie against His Truths - we open ourselves up to delusion and delusion takes on many forms .... False doctrine - an inflated self-image - the "I deserve" syndrome - a blatant consistent sin - but all of it is merely just plain ol' "REBELLION" because we "chose" to believe a lie and we "LOVE" our particular sin and self, more than we choose to die to all of self, as unto Him and Him alone.
He whom the Son sets free is free indeed - and that came with Salvation. Any bondages that come after that, are caused by believing a lie about GOD or an inflated self-image, that loads itself with excuses of why they're so special that they can get away with self-gratification that GOD calls an abomination unto Him.
Is that "loving GOD"?
To call it a "demonic stronghold" is a bloody excuse - Scripturally!
No where in Scripture do we read that sin is anything more than something that needs to be cut out. Let him that steal - steal no more. Flee youthful lusts. etc. etc. etc.
To love the LORD with all of one's heart, mind, soul and strength is to know that His Word is Him and to honor and seek Him and His Word with all of one's might.
"Heresy" is defined from the Greek as "the opinion chosen".
It's no wonder that man would love to throw-out the truth of man having a "freewill" and that truly Saved can exercise that Freewill whichever way he "chooses".
"No man hateth his own flesh" - that's Scripture and those that say otherwise, haven't seen that man is filled with pride and self from birth.
Our only problem is that our eyes are turned inward because we love ourselves more than we love and look to GOD alone.
Self-focusedness is anti-Christ.
Continuing in that self-focusedness will endanger a person's position in Christ.
We're under His Protective Umbrella [so to speak] as long as we're "in His Will".
His Will is under that umbrella, but one we step out from under His Will, we've stepped out from under His Protection.
The straight and narrow road is covered by His Protective umbrella.
Oh, how we love to blame the devil for our sin when it's our need to take up our cross and reckon that person that we were Dead and acknowledge that we've "believed a lie" and we've been in bondage to that "lie" against His Truth about Himself and about ourselves.
Humble ourselves under The Mighty Hand of a Awesome and Holy GOD - as pride is the root of all sin --- and pride is 'self'-focused.
Thanks for defining how many are using that word "strongholds" out of the context of the only place and chapter where it's used in His Word.
If someone is feeling convicted about anything under the sun or finally realizing that their walk is not the victorious-powerful walk that Christ has promised to His Own blood bought Saints - then they need to seek GOD to reveal to them what "lie or lies" that they have bought or believed against His Word and where the pride is that caused that.
Thanks for taking the time to define how one word can change things from blaming a devil and the making of excuses - to bringing oneself under HIS "Truth that sets men Free - even from their born-proud 'selves'."
Satan's pride chose to sin and so does ours. Satan was the first to say "I deserve _________" - a blank that any one of us can fill in with whatever we choose for ourselves as well ---- and then blame it on the devil? I don't think so!
We're tempted of our own lusts! We believe the lie of our own making and choice. We'll never stand before GOD and get away with any other excuse, except for the truth of His Word, that we 'chose' what we believed and that we alone will be held responsible for any thoughts or actions we that we did after "we came to Christ".
Why do we use words like "incarnate" if it is not in the Bible?
The concept of "strongholds" is throughout the Bible, just as the concept of "incarnate" is.
So, is the concept of the "trinity" and others. Should I list them?
Most often it is our fault that we have let the enemy in, just as Israel through their disobedience and unfaithfulness to God allowed the enemy to invade their land.
I agree that I have found many that just want to blame everyone else rather than look to themselves and their own responsibility.
But, Satan does bruise the innocent, too. From the day one is born, they are a prime objective of the enemy. It's not their fault that they were taken advantage of and used and abused.
Pilgrim
What does Jesus, Paul, John and Jude, etc. say about "sin"?
I should like to have Scriptures only, of course.
I was thanking you for defining how that word is used but now I suppose I'll need Scripture - "what is written" about sin and false doctrines ... and where our own freewill is proven through-out.
Thanks!
I added to my post.
Well, yes, you did change your post - but we still need Scripture to prove any Spiritual-Truth.
Point for point _ Incarnate is proved by Scripture - "The Word was GOD - The Word became flesh - Immanuel = GOD with us."
The Trinity _ 1John 5:7 plus countless others, from Genesis - Let 'Us' make man in Our image" - Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.
But, Satan does bruise the innocent, too. From the day one is born, they are a prime objective of the enemy. It's not their fault that they were taken advantage of and used and abused.
This is where we need Scripture.
We have the example of GOD giving Paul a thorn in the flesh, but not as punishment or bruise his innocency - but to 'prevent' him from being self-exalted.
From Job we see that GOD uses the enemy to direct people in the direction that He desires.
I personally have found that those that are targets, though considered "innocent" are "taken advantage of" because they have depended on man to teach them, rather than being before GOD with their Bible open... as He promised in John 16:13 that He would lead us into all truth and even show us things to come .... as that protective umbrella mentioned above.
The "innocent" are those that see nothing in themselves and are totally dependent on Him and His Word alone and there is no Scriptural record of those type being "taken advantage of" because if they were - that would make GOD a liar.
Isa 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Rom 8:37-39 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Even through Israel's sin, when the hedge of protection came down and they were invaded and taken captive to the enemy's strongholds (cities, camps), they still had to turn to the Lord for their deliverance and He never turned them down when they returned to Him with their whole heart.
Yes, the Scriptures are full to overflowing with how the Enemy seeks to capture us and bind us up in spiritual fetters.
But, you know all of this, being the student of the Word that you are. I would love to accept your invitation to go point by point and lay out much of this to you and others, but you are a much too honored member of SI to waste your time on me.
Blessings to you, Annie.
Pilgrim
P.S. Baby children depend on man because they cannot depend on themselves.
First off, I was enjoying our conversation and secondly - I am nothing of the sort here and because of my "first off" - I don't see our conversation that I was enjoying as a waste of my time. I'd rather discuss His Word than anything else that I can think or talk about.
Going into captivity as a nation because of the sins of the people is something any nation can expect - but it in no way reflects on a Spirit filled blood-bought Christian going into 'internal' captivity or bondage individually by any hold of Satan upon their life, if they're "innocent".
The few examples in the New Testament of demonic activity 'within' a person was of those at risk of losing their salvation because of rebelliousness or those not sincerely saved at all. The one, Paul gave his body over to Satan so that his spirit might be saved. The others, such as those that were smitten dead and those that were blinded by the Apostles, were because of some lie against GOD and Truth.
The enemy may seek "those whom he may devour" but as the few Scriptures given in my last post prove - those who's walk is circumspect and wholly dependent on The LORD and not their 'self' or someone they shouldn't depend on, are deemed 'safe' and have overcome the evil one and he touches them not.
Whenever we see in the N.T., anyone who has demonic activity active in their lives - their salvation is either questionable, none existant or will be.
So, The Word of GOD proves that this next quote is not the case with those who's eyes are "stayed" on Him ... 'Yes, the Scriptures are full to overflowing with how the Enemy seeks to capture us and bind us up in spiritual fetters.'
They can be 'attacked' from within or without and also can be 'tempted' as Jesus was, but they know where to turn and not stay under these type of attacks. But to be "captured and bound up in spiritual fetters" --- this is where we need to turn to our New Testaments and find examples that prove that one out.
There's just too many chapters and verses on "victory" and "overcoming" for me to be able to see what you're saying.
"Bady Children" still are promised John 16:13 - and normally, baby children have less of their "own" mind and are more teachable and reachable by the Spirit of Truth than adult christians that have already been fed a bunch of anything that a man could dish out to them.
Jesus took a real shining to children for that reason.
The bigger and more powerful that we make Satan - the smaller and less-reliable our GOD is, in our own minds.
If we go beyond what is written and don't stand on what the New Testament says about where we are "in Christ" - seated in Heavenly places, etc - we will have a mighty rough time in the days, months or years to come - when that old devil knows that his time is short and goes hay-wire.
We MUST know where we stand In Christ and know His Word to us from the New Testament, or the enemy will beat the brain cells out our minds and wreck our nerves with fears.
We are more than conquerors through Him that Loves us!
Amen!
Hi! 'Pilgrim777'
Yer kinna' disappointing me. :)
Having read many of your Threads an' comments, I had the confidence that you, (above all people in here), would easily have recognized that there is no value to be had by engaging in long, protracted arguments and debate.
"A scoffer seeks Wisdom in vain [for his very attitude blinds and deafens him to it], but knowledge is easy to him who [being teachable] understands.
Go from the presence of a foolish and self-confident man, for you will not find knowledge on his lips.
The Wisdom [godly Wisdom, which is comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God] of the prudent is to understand his way, but the folly of [self-confident] fools is to deceive", (Prov 14:6-10) [Amplified Ver]
EDITED BELOW
I was jus' now browsing this Discussion Forum and stumbled into a recent SermonIndex Thread which might help explain everything: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45988&forum=34&1
" "The wicked are like the tossing sea, for it cannot be quiet, and its waters toss up refuse and mud. `There is no peace', says my God, `for the wicked'" (Isa.57:20,21).
Those who are wrong in God's eyes are doomed to a life of constant agitation and unrest, in which they will keep on tossing up rubbish and mud from their mouths (gossip, acccusations, complaints and abuses) against godly brothers and sisters ".
Blayne, you take a lot upon yourself here in statements like that.
This was not what you would like it to appear and to call anyone a scoffer that wants to see Christians live in all that Christ died to give them ... the fact that you don't understand the Scriptures that would set His Children free - is why you come on with accusations of this nature.
Calling others "wicked" that desire to see GOD's own Saints, live in the Victory that He has purchased for them is very dangerous judgment on your part.
You said you're "here for just a good time - not a long time" --- but judging conversations on His Words, written For His Saints to be set free from lies of the evil one - is something you've once again twisted for some reason.
You are treading on shakey ground when you come against His Word, written for His Sheep -- as has been apparent of how you post, from other threads as well. As was said on that thread as well, with another Brother ... you have a problem with The Word being used.
Discernment is spiritual in nature and one will find it through His Word and people's 'reactions' to His Word being lifted up above any other words.
Trying to get over to Dad's but this Scripture that speaks about "the sand" kept coming to me over and over again and with all the talk today about "what's coming" - I knew that He wanted me to post this - because we're going to need all of the Spiritual Strength that The WORD of GOD Himself and written can give and nothing else will - no other 'words' ...
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
:-)
Yer kinna' disappointing me. :)
Having read many of your Threads an' comments, I had the confidence that you, (above all people in here), would easily have recognized that there is no value to be had by engaging in long, protracted arguments and debate.
I have learned to decline certain invitations.
Pilgrim
Thanks Zionshield. That was very useful information.
Discernment is spiritual in nature and one will find it through His Word and people's 'reactions' to His Word being lifted up above any other words.
Too true.
@Jesus-is-God
I just stumbled across this thread. I was reading your posts, and was reminded of this from Jeremiah 7:27-28;
"You shall speak all these words to them, but they will not listen to you; and you shall call to them, but they will not answer you. You shall say to them, 'This is the nation that did not obey the voice of the LORD their God or accept correction; truth (though in Hebrew it's 'emuwnah) has perished and has been cut off from their mouth."
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy-Matthew 5:7
May I sugget the prayer closet for some of us. Thanks
What the church needs is discernment, if they're going to get through what is coming.
Thankful for the subject of this year's Conference.
Thankful for Missionaries from Godly homes, like EverestoSama that has been raised in The LORD to have discernment and to be willing to live in another country for the love of Christ and for souls, despite the potentially dangerous environment it has become since Foockashima. (sp?:)
Thankful for the speakers that have volunteered for this year's Conference. Very grateful!
But the pain in 'my' heart is that the church lacks discernment.
Running on emotions and a competitive spirit within 'the Body' will not get any of us through what is coming to this nation and this world before His return.
At one point, speaking of the days to come, The LORD says, "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth:
Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."
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