You seek for prophets!

“ If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.” Deuteronomy 13:1-5

This passage of Scripture reveals something very important about the prophetic ministry which every believer should be aware of.

A true prophet is not false if he is not a prophet he is simply a liar. He is himself deceived and out of that deception he imagines himself to be a prophet. On the other hand a true prophet of God is false if he speaks out of his own imagination. "False prophet" does not mean “not a prophet”. False prophet means leading God’s people astray by one’s own imagination.

In the passage above the words “and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass” points to a true prophet of God, yet because the words which accompany the sign and the wonder are “let us go after other God’s” the true prophet is proven to be a false one. True and false are not whether God has called a man to be a prophet. True and false are whether a prophet speaks so as to lead God's people astray or else to lead God's people to God. The sign and the wonder which accompanies the man, do not establish the validity of what he says. Again in this passage the reason given for why God allows these things is “for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.” This is God’s mercy to the one who hears the prophet because to be proven is a most blessed reality. It builds up faith and makes a saint more confident to speak from their heart as well as their spirit. It is also God’s way of glorifying His own Name, because “And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God.” God must judge His prophets for His own Name. If you say you are a prophet or whether you say it or not, yet in your heart you believe it, you should expect to be judged and tested by God always. If you move beyond this, you will be proven false in the end.

Of course not everyone who prophecies is claiming to be a prophet! Some believers accept that the gift of prophecy in Corinthians is not the same as the gift of prophet in Ephesians. So that to exercise the gift of prophecy, having received it according to the gifting of the Holy Spirit, is a lesser requirement than is the one who believes he is a prophet. The gift of prophecy is given by faith and is exercised in grace. No one should condemn a believer for faithfully speaking through a gift of the Holy Spirit. Others can easily cover all such speech and thereby a believer with this gift can grow without condemnation. Nevertheless some do believe that they are prophets. They style themselves according to the old covenant prophets. They show signs and wonders and they understand the influence which they have. Some become like Balaam and labour for profit and others labour for profit and for personal glory amongst men. Still other believers, who know that they have been given as a prophet to the Body of Christ, have no desire to be recognised at all. They have no style and their speech bears witness to itself. In their speech these men are recognised, yet they themselves should seek for no recognition, but be content with knowing Who they serve.

Finally, we should all take comfort from the fact that God Himself will judge those who are real prophets even unto death if they lose sight of God and cease to fear Him. Read 1 Kings Chapter 13 completely. It makes for a very sobering read. See that there were two real prophets both had their words established by God, one unto death of the other and one unto the proving of a Kings heart to be faithless. The one rebuked a King at the altar of God, and the other wept for his brother. The one spoke truth and God’s judgment on a king, the other lied to his brother. The one who lied, lived and the one who spoke the truth died. There is profound wisdom in this passage for anyone who believes he is a prophet.

I see and believe that many today are beginning to seek for real prophetic ministry which divides error from truth and makes straight God’s ways in the hearts of men. This is wonderful, yet we should not lose sight of what this will mean when it comes. Judgement unto death, both for those who seek and those who are given. May the Lord Himself keep us and preserve our hearts and minds for His Name sake. Amen.

Thank-you Andrew for this deep word, and presented so clearly. It causes some fear to rise in me, as to some extent, anyhow, I do have a prophetic/seer type ministry.

Here is a testimony of mine: http://brideinthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/05/gift-from-someone-else-to-someone-elsea.html#comment-form

I know you know this,as we have talked and mailed before.

[ could you please call me, or mail me soon?]

Back to your word. I was struck with the individual responsibility of the prophet who received the word...and God's instruction to "return the way that he came."

He did everything else right, and when he saw the withered arm of Jeroboam, and the mighty power of God fall like lightening as he spoke, he must have thought "A job well done!"

But....it wasn't just about being God's ambassador of power and might, was it? It was about consecrated obedience to the word he had received.

After that mighty power display, Elijah like, he must have thought it trivial to return the exact same way, or to refuse food....and so he omitted these "trivial" parts of the commandment/prophesy to obey...after all...he had just changed the world.

IF a man or a woman has really received a prophesy, or a word, and I have, it is amazing how many people will try to talk you out of it! and more amazing, as this teaching proves...some will be sent by God Himself to test you...and as you said, even unto death.

Thank-you so much for bringing this holy word to the forum, as it deeply moves me, [as you have done before for me ]...as I received a direct call , as you know, to Eritrea. You would not believe how many people balk, and have tried to oppose this...even right here on SI.

After two dreams, very clear ones, the Lord gave me a third...and in it were three or four Semitic black African ladies, appearing very holy and dressed in traditional colorful dress of that region. They approached me, and one of them spoke, directly in front of me, very close.

She looked deep into my eyes, and spoke: "You MUST GO!..You MUST!"....and then, she raised her forefinger to me, and wagged it back and forth, making a swishing sound with her lips and breath.."shhhw-shhhw"..and fear fell on me like a blanket..[ for two days]...and I knew that she meant I must go; OR ELSE!

Your word here today confirms this as much as anything I could express...and I am deeply thankful for that, and the posting of this teaching..[ very solid].

I have had much carnal fear about this trip, as it appears it could be dangerous...but I am trying to work it out...and I have came to some different thoughts. I could be called there to one soul, one child, one widow...and it would still be the same..wouldn't it...and I could receive great favor and great provision too...as well as suffer persecution.

I do not know, but I know this, I am going, and as ambassador of Christ, if I have to be carried there....or else.

This word has greatly increased my resolve; thank-you. I want to fear God much more than I do....Tom

I think 1 Kings 22 is also quite crucial to know and understand when dealing with the prophetic. So much is revealed in that chapter alone. One of the most sobering chapters on prophecy in the Bible IMHO.

EverestoSama thank you for the post.

In this passage that you have drawn attention to lies something which is at the heart of what I was sharing in the OP. I wanted to expound the point that it is possible for a prophet to lie and yet not be responsible or accountable for lying. You can understand my concern at sharing such a thing, or of having to explain it. This has nothing to do with a man’s heart to desire deceit or else to deceive. It is a function of the prophetic office that a prophet can say that which is contrary to the truth, yet still know the truth. There is another side to this same reality but which has to do with a prophet’s speech generally. Loose speech when uttered by a prophet can have a real outcome and may prove to be at the cost of another. At the same time wilful speech can be even more harmful. The reason for this I believe has to do with God’s choosing. No one can choose to be a prophet. Whereas any one can ask for the gift of prophecy, if they are born again.

Moses cursed Israel in the dessert and struck the rock twice. His speech would have carried real consequences for Israel if God Himself had not judged Moses instead. Elisha cursed 42 youth who were then devoured by bears. Should Moses really have cursed Israel? Should Elisha really have cursed the youth? All speech carries with it consequences, for the greatest and for the least of Israel. Moses bore the consequences of his disobedience in his own body, whereas the youth bore their foolishness in theirs. Moses bore the cost because he was a picture of Christ to come, whereas the youth bore the cost of their words in calling Elisha “baldy” because Elisha was a picture of God’s judgment.

When the King of Israel in 1 Kings 22 asked concerning whether Israel would be successful in war 400 prophets all agreed that he would prosper. The king of Judah then asked “is there not yet one more prophet here that we may inquire of him?” In sending for Micaiah the king of Israel expected to hear the truth because he was accustomed to Micaiah resisting him. This was Micaiah’s testimony. Yet he also agreed with the 400 prophets. Micaiah was warned not to contradict the other prophets and he declared that he would speak “only that which was given to him by God.” Then he lied. When the king of Israel rebuked Micaiah to speak the truth, Micaiah declared the real outcome of the war. However, note that Micaiah then prophesied the explanation as to why he had lied.

“Therefore hear thou the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And Jehovah said, Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, I will entice him. And Jehovah said unto him, wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee.”

God Himself had asked “who will go up and entice Ahab (King of Israel) that he may go up and fall?”

Micaiah was not numbered amongst the 400 prophets but stood alone. He was not accounted by God as a liar, yet the 400 were. The 400 were given a spirit to lie, Micaiah was not given a spirit, yet he spoke the same lie which the 400 spoke. The lie was God’s will for a purpose of God. God cannot lie yet there are spirits willing to lie and declare it before God. Satan Himself even lies before God. As he did regarding Job. Micaiah in fact declared prophetically that which was God’s hidden will, and was at the same time able to know the reality of time and space. He knew the outcome of the war perfectly, yet spoke other than. This I accept is a difficult thing to grasp. But I share it simply because there is coming a time of unprecedented falsehood. In it there will be the hidden purposes of God which when expressed will not amount to the actual events seen. Thus those who are true will appear false and those who are false will appear true. May God have mercy. If you are asking or seeking for strong men and strong prophets do so in the knowledge that the outcome will not be as you imagine it will be. Even so ask! God himself will send deluding spirit upon this generation such as the world has not seen before. Those who are called to speak for God in this generation will speak so as to lay snares at every turn. Thereby will God Himself bring to account all men who in their vanity will not repent. So will false prophets be brought down, as of old and the pure of heart will fear God and worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Yet only those who do not run after prophets and prophecies. Signs and wonders also.

I realise that some in reading this OP may well think that I am playing with words. To that idea I have to draw attention again to the fact that the” spirit” who came forwards to accomplish the task of enticing Ahab “to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead” was appointed by God by reason of God’s asking. An enticing spirit is not a lying spirit precisely, yet to entice that spirit must come upon the prophets as a “deceiving spirit in the mouths of the prophets”. In short there had to be a deception which amounted to a lie before Ahab could be snared by God. Ahab had to hear the lie and the only people who could deliver it were the prophets. “Go up for the Lord will give it (Ramoth-gilead) into the hands of the king”. This word spoken by the 400 prophets was a straight forward lie because Ahab did not receive Ramoth-gilead into his hands. Instead he died by an arrow through the joint of his armour and bled to death. A dead man cannot receive a city into his hands. Micaiah said “go up and the Lord will give it into the hands of the king”. Again this is directly a lie, yet something happened here which needs to be clearly understood today because of the times which are coming upon us.

Consider Zedekiah who made the horns of iron and prophesied saying “thus says the Lord, with these (the horns) you shall gore the Arameans until they are consumed.” This same Zedekiah is the prophet who struck Micaiah on the cheek after he revealed the truth concerning Ahab and Israel, and said to him, “How did the Spirit of the Lord pass from me to speak to you?” Micaiah whilst he was renowned for speaking against Ahab was not regarded by the other prophets. He was not included in the 400, which did include Zedekiah, who made the horns of Iron. Making the horns of iron, and thereby taking the lead, Hezekiah showed that he was the preeminent prophet amongst these 400, therefore he alone used the words, “Thus says the Lord”. These words make certain what is being said and can have no other meaning than, The Lord says”. Micaiah on the other hand is alone, set apart and sent for by name. Yet he does not say, “Thus says the Lord.” Instead he simply answers, “go up and succeed and the Lord will give it into your hand.”

It is a remarkable thing that Micaiah, who hated King Ahab’s sins, and who was certain to speak truthfully and fearlessly, was despite such confidence, yet unable to contradict God’s purposes, but had to speak a lie in the first instance. Had Ahab not rebuked Micaiah saying “speak nothing to me but the truth in the Name of the Lord,” Micaiah would not have been compelled to have shared the vision which explained how it was he had lied, and thereafter the prophecy which gave the real outcome, its visibility and true meaning.

Today there are more men and a few women claiming to speak for God than at any time in human history. Not only this, but it will be getting much worse still. In the end a false prophet will deceive countless men and women to worship the beast of Revelations as true Christ. Those who claim to speak for God say “Thus says The Lord” without any restraint, at every thought of their imaginations. No doubt some of these are deceived in that they are not prophets at all, yet some of them will be prophets. Many are prophets after the prophet Balaam and not after men such as Micaiah who was able to speak without desiring an effect, that which was a true reflection of God’s hidden will, and still speak the truth plainly when adjured to speak without destroying God’s purposes. Ahab did go up to the battle and he did die, and Israel was scattered without a shepherd. And each man did go unto his own home in peace.

To be Continued

I will add my two shekels to the mix here, and for me, has been a very interesting and clear thread. There is no doubt that not only prophecy and those with the OFFICE of a prophet; IE: Recognized as having been called by God into that authority ministry, were active in the days of the New Testament.

"Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul."

......another...."And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch."

" And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

"Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea"................Acts 15:32.............

"And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.".............

1 Corinthians 12:28
"And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.".............

1 Corinthians 12:29
"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?"..........

1 Corinthians 14:29
"Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge."............

Ephesians 3:5
"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers."

Titus 1:12
"One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."

Revelation 18:20
"Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her."

So, where are they today? I think they are here, but our understanding of them may not be so clear. Do you remember the words of Jesus about them?

Matthew 10:41
" He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward."...Jesus

I believe that the prophet, like the apostle, carries up the rear of the train, a bottom of the barrel type servant, placed under the body, as a foot-washer, a slave, if you will, as a brother first; not an ecclesiastical figure. I do not think he should see himself as anything special, other than a called one, a redeemed one.

This thing I know: Revelation in itself does not make you spiritual. It does not elevate you into special favor with the grace of God; It may reveal God...and cause you to confront His realities, but it will not conform you to the image of Him, by mere seeing, or understanding.

Let me give you an example in my life: This happened over 20 years ago: It's about the HEART of God, and that is what I believe is the primary ministry of the prophetic to the church...Carry His Heart.

I AM LIMITLESS! GOD'S WORD TO THE INNOCENT DEAD.
I went into a vision. There before me was an expanse in Heaven, like a large platform. Behind this platform, I could see something like the Hem of the Robe of the Lord, with Shekinah Glory emanating from His Presence as He sat on His Throne. I was but a watcher, a Seer in this event. Everything was covered with light, some golden, some like sapphire.

There was one person standing in the center of that platform; The soul of an aborted baby boy, and I also knew that he was there to make his Petition unto the Lord. I also knew that he was disabled while in the womb; and I knew his name was David. He did not appear exactly as an adult, but not a child either. He began his petition, speaking directly to the Father. He said things like:

"I NEVER SAW LIGHT, NOR DID I EVER SEE THE SUN. I NEVER SAW COLOR; I NEVER KNEW A FRIEND. I NEVER HAD ANYONE LOVE ME, OR HOLD ME, I NEVER BREATHED AIR, OR KNEW HAPPINESS, AND MY OWN MOTHER KILLED ME.

"AND THIS WAS MY LIFE."

It was then that the Lord Spoke, in a quiet but thundering tone, "I'LL TAKE HIM!" and at the exact same moment the Lord put His heart directly into me, and my heart beat with pure molten LOVE; a fiery passion so intense, that I would have jumped into a volcano to rescue this child, and traversed Hell itself to gain him. There was nothing in Earth or under that would slow me, nor any fear; any cost presented would be paid. I began to weep and scream with passion; "I'LL TAKE HIM!" " I'LL TAKE HIM!" I'LL TAKE HIM!", over and over. My passion for this soul had become uncontrollable, like a raging white water river surging beyond.

The vision ended, and at that time I was married, and my wife was preparing to go to work, and heard me. She came into the bedroom and saw me with my hands stretched upward, grasping, and sobbing as I lay, screaming out as I spoke in other tongues. Inwardly, I was very clearly shouting, "I'll take him!" over and over. She never said a thing, and figured she should leave that one alone, and she shut the door, and went on getting ready.

I laid there for a short time when I noticed a cloud began to form above me. I was in the natural world by now, and it shaped itself like a box, above me to my right. It was glistening, and it's color was of dazzling sapphire; the color of Shekinah! I have seen it before. And then, the audible and clear Word of the Lord Spoke out of the Cloud.: "I AM LIMITLESS."...in a still small VOICE that I knew was God the Father.

The experience ended, the Cloud vanished. IMPLICATIONS AND IDEAS.

Obviously, when one is taken away in the Spirit and the Lord speaks to you, you must realize that it is a lifetime change for you. I carry this word, the same as I would a molten brand applied upon my forehead, as a scar. The first thing I want to say is that I KNOW that I know that God does not damn the innocent. This has helped me much to understand his great love in the face of cultures and worlds the He annihilated; From the entire OLD WORLD in Noah's day, to Sodom, Gomorrah, and the Plain cities filled with the same demons.

I understood that the Lord watched generations of the innocent born be sucked into the Juggernaut of abominational sin, as he watched these innocent ones corrupted by evil, and because He is Holy, HAD to damn them, as they became bonded to that culture. I know know, that every innocent soul killed by Him , say in the GREAT FLOOD was out of mercy for the multitudes that would perish, and be damned, IF God allowed this Satanism to continue on. This is the answer as to the scorched Earth policies in Canaan; Jericho, Sodom, and Amalek that Saul stumbled with, when ordered to kill them all...children too, and every animal.

Every innocent soul is with God; all of them. "I'll take him." and as far as receiving the Word about LIMITLESS everything about God....WOW!...has that helped; especially in the realms of warfare. I now know that ALL of Satan's might, and all of his wicked armies, multiplied by one trillion, are nothing before the Lord, and less than nothing. Jesus is without limit in His power, and a trillion Satans are less than a mere drop in a 55 gallon barrel in their power. God is limitless. Satan, and all of his angel cohorts shall soon be in the Lake of Fire, writhing forever for their sin that slew so many billions, and all of the sorrow, suffering, disease, and death to the Father's creation.

THE LORD JESUS has the power to bring each and every soul before Him, ever created, and every angel fallen, and He will, and the day is coming when He will collapse this Universe, and every star, and melt it, and begin anew, with a holy and undefiled seed; us. He had the power to rescue David, the aborted soul, and He is faithful, and will not ever leave one behind. He is limitless in His memory, in His Promises, to keep them, and in His LOVE.

Remember, one day He will say something very similar to you and me, IF we remain Faithful. "Enter in, my good and faithful servant, to the joy prepared for you."...and like David here; It is going to be very personal. Hallelujah....yours in spirit...Brother Tom Watkins.

I am off the opinion that there are no prophets in our day. There may be watchmen but not prophets. If anyone disagrees with me then present me with people who are prophets and I will investigate. Even David Wilkerson was not a prophet. He was a Watchmen. Watchmen can be wrong but Prophets must not have error and I would think lead an unusual life. DeaDn

Brother this is indeed an interesting statement in more ways than one. The very last part which speaks “and would lead an unusual life” is remarkable. It is exactly how deluded men think when they seek to assert that they are prophets and are not, or else how real prophet’s act when they are deluded. Not that I am saying that you are deluded of course, quite the contrary. Imagine if after just having been saved you were to ask God Himself, “Lord what is it that you have made me to be to the body?” And God answers “you are a prophet”. What then? Should you go off to the wilderness or grow long hair. Look unkempt or else wash in a river? Believe it or not this is reality for those who believe they have been called by God to the prophetic ministry. Such a calling makes a prophet want to be separate in this way, yet if “unusual” were the mark of the prophetic, things would get very “unusual” indeed.

Consider someone who is seeking for clarity in a truly difficult situation and along comes an unkempt man, who looks as though he washes in the river, and looks at you straight and tells you everything about your situation. Suddenly you feel release from the situation. What will you do? Worship God? Or have the thought “this man is a prophet”. If this were to be true in your life would this “prophet” be a prophet because you have believed his words? Or would he be a deluded prophet who was real, but deluded. After all why would a true prophet need to live an unusual life?

The women at the well in Samaria said of Jesus “I know that you are a prophet, because you have told me all the things I have done.”

One of the central points which I am seeking to make in this post, is the distinction, “what constitutes a real prophet and what constitutes a false one?” In the natural mind a person can be received as a true prophet by simply appearing to be one. In spiritual reality a prophet can only be known by the words of their mouth. Again, to the natural mind, what if a man does reveal your heart and at the same time looks every bit the unusual prophet? Will you receive him and be twice as deceived. I have to say the answer to the natural mind would be a resounding YES though he in fact may not be a prophet at all. Now ask yourself did Jesus seem quiet ordinary in His appearance to men? The answer is a resounding yes. He had NO comeliness. Jesus didn’t have an “image” of His own. He came among us and was of no consequence of appearance to men.

It may seem silly to write like this, but I can tell you brother that all around the world there are men who are claiming to be God’s prophet’s and do indeed look the very part. They even speak the part. Sometimes they are even accurate. Yet they leave in their trail destruction and misery. Some of these men are really called to the prophetic ministry and some of them are deceivers to the core, being both deceived and deceiving. It is not difficult to believe that someone who is not a prophet is a liar, but how will you deal with someone who is a believer and a prophet and is therefore able to deceive you. It is too simplistic to simply say that there are no more prophets, and it is equally too simplistic to say that a person who is abusive or else speaks falsely can’t be a prophet.

In the Scriptures we are told specifically that a prophet is known by their fruit. Known what? Known to be a prophet? Or known to be a true or false prophet? One could paraphrase the same words and say, “A prophet (tree) bears fruit. You will know whether he is true or false by the fruit. But he is still a prophet (tree).”

Do you imagine that Zedekiah was not a prophet? He definitely was because it is written “and there were about four hundred (prophets).” Zedekiah was a prophet. Otherwise he would have simply been a deluded liar. But because he was a true prophet, that day he was proven false. Yes he spoke a lie, but he was proven false he wasn’t proven to be a fake prophet. The tree bears good fruit or else it may bear bad fruit. But the tree is always a tree. A true prophet is always a prophet regardless as to how he may speak.

Hence why I have said beware the days which are coming. God Himself has a plan for His church. He is going to lead a remnant and enable them to make themselves ready for Christ. Satan knows this very well and has his own counterfeit. It will look so much like the real thing that many will not be able to judge rightly. Real prophets and the prophetic will feature in that counterfeit, even unto the false prophet of revelations. God’s faithful prophets will feature in what God Himself will do to make His people minded to dress in readiness.

When a person is first called to the prophetic ministry by having been given to the body for that purpose as a gift of prophet, they may serve Satan one moment and God the next. They may see God work through them one day, and the next realise that because of the flesh they have served Satan as well. They may curse a man and see him suffer loss and then bless a man and see him filled up. Unless we ask God Himself to show us in the spirit and through the Scriptures this reality, we will never know how to judge rightly in the days to come. In effect, how to reject a man’s word’s but accept the man as one of God’s children. If he is indeed one of God’s children. Yet God will also raise up other prophets to snare the disobedient and faithless prophet, even as God is able to snare or entice a disobedient and faithless king.

Prophets who love the world, love the praises of men and are lovers of money will find in the end that they have served Satan and not God, even though they may have raised the dead, healed the sick, cast out demons, etc. They will be serving Satan. Satan doesn’t deceive those who are already deceived; he deceives those who know the truth. Satan has no real power of his own which he is willing to share with men he depends on men to act for him. He especially looks for men who are saved, yet rebellious or covetous and through vanity and visible pride he seeks to lead them against God Himself. Today we are come into this season when lawlessness is increased and increasing, where individuality is the fruit of collective and individual pride, where an unwillingness to repent of these things is leading to an exceptional day of wickedness. The enemy of God is comes as an angel of light, in such a condition, if we ourselves are in such a condition, how will we discern the day and flee from it? In the end Satan will give his power to a man, a prophet, proven false by his words. Able to cause men to worship the beast and his statue.

I Imagine that the main cord in this idea of a "prophet"
of God, is whether the Word or Revelation would lead you to the Lordship of Jesus of Nazareth or not? eh?

This is a separate and holy issue, that men cannot play with.

I Imagine that the main cord in this idea of a "prophet" of God, is whether the Word or Revelation would lead you to the Lordship of Jesus of Nazareth or not? eh?

This is a separate and holy issue, that men cannot play with. Brothertom

Tom it must be said that to know the Lordship of Jesus of Nazareth today you would have to first know Jesus the Son of Man, the Son of God, even the Risen Lord. Only then can you really know that this same man who is seated at the right hand of God, is Jesus of Nazareth. Nathaniel, asked, "can anything good come out of Nazareth?" After the Lord spoke to Him, Nathaniel was able to declare "you are the Son of God, the King of Israel!" Philip understood that he had found Jesus of Nazareth, "the son of Joseph". This was based on an understanding of the Law of Moses and the Prophets. For Philip, it was possible to understand that Jesus of Nazareth had been found, yet he still understood it in terms of Jesus the "son of Joseph". We haven't come to Christ by the Law and the Prophets, we have come to Christ by Christ who fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. Even though the Law and the Prophets speak of Him, today we have a better witness. For by the Son of man, by death and resurrection Christ has borne witness of Himself.

Of all the disciples only Peter received the revelation that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God, before the Lord's death and resurrection. We today know this because we have received this same revelation of Christ, precisely because He is risen.

"Where is this going?"

So far as I can know it is to a challenge of that which it false in those who call themselves prophets. Not fake. But false. Fake is a lie and can be easily shown to be a lie. False is a "leading men astray" by the authority and power of God. So that it is also a warning. All power and authority belong to God. Even Satan has no authority of his own and his power comes from God's first choosing Him to serve Him. The corruption of his trade is the beginning of the corruption of the power and authority of God given. And the gift and calling of God are without repentance. God does not change His mind. Because God Himself is sovereign, that corruption becomes effectual for God's purposes in that those who are corrupt are ever willing to deceive men, even men of God, for their own purposes of the flesh. Just as Ahab as king and prophet by his own mouth commanded the truth from Micaiah, yet still fell into the trap. The random arrow which brought him unto death was not directed at him by a man, but by God Himself. In bleeding to death, he becomes a symbol of the shed blood of Christ, unto the scattering of the sheep, by the bringing down of the shepherd. And the sheep thereafter go each man unto his own home in peace. Even as we have found peace with God through the death of Christ, and the scattering of His sheep. Only then can we be brought into the household of God in peace. If this makes us tremble then so it should. We should tremble and cry out to God. We should put aside everything, even ourselves and seek God for the Knowledge of His ways. Only then will we have confidence to serve God even unto death.It is not the calling of God which concerns me, it is my own self which concerns me, and am jealous of the prophetic ministry.

One of the great deceptions today is the exaltation of the prophet. We cannot compare them to Isaiah, or Moses or Jeremiah or David, or Peter or Paul or John in this sense: These men were graced to exemplify and declare ETERNAL canon; The "IT IS WRITTEN" word of God.

The twelve apostles and 12 of other ages will be graced to sit around the throne itself, forever; right up front., and I suppose that most of them, or maybe all of them, were prophets. [ I have my pre-supposed list..] There will never be a prophet to write God's eternal word; Canon was sealed with the Revelation of Jesus Christ by John, around 100ad. [ Thank you Jesus for those who preserved that holy Word!]

We must get out of our minds the "big-shot" mentality of the prophet, or the Apostle: They are brothers first, and UNDER the body to lay their lives down for her, NOT over the body. We will leave that to the Nicolaitan ministry. The Prophet will be a brother first.

This really does not fit at all in the context of our concepts of The PROPHET, does it? A common man, with teenagers to raise, a cantankerous wife, bills to pay, and debt...just like you. A brother, and a failing, stumbling brother...but never-the-less, in the midst of commonality, a gift has been given, and maybe to the least of all.

We tend to shift to Elijah, or Moses...oooooh! but no, it's Larry! Your mailman sitting before you playing Yatzee, bringing up, now and then, the Word of the Lord; Just another brother.; but God's choice of common grace in an uncommon way.

I was a part of the prophetic movement 20 years ago, and moved to Kansas City to live among them. I have met all of the main ones there, at some time or another, but in particular Paul Cain and Bob Jones, who were the undisputed leaders.

They were all aloof. Paul Cain resorted to body guards after he spoke, and was whisked away from meetings by them. There was some very real ministry there, but there was mixture; Hidden Pride, power, and glory seeking. This was the idea of the prophet; 2nd in command, so to speak; ABOVE the body.

I CALL IT: HIGH-SPIRITUALITY/COLD LOVE.

It serves no purpose to name others, but the two above became international figures, albeit in infamy, and the rest, perhaps over a dozen, were eventually exposed as false, as brother Kelly defines false, leading astray in the name of the Lord; deceiving.[ For power, prestige, riches and honor, and a cover for carnal lusts, I suppose.]

Everyone involved either fell away, or became false...All of them. So, why? I think it was necessary that the false be exposed as it is, and it has been...but the true is yet to be established I think, in the End-Time-Bride Fellowship.

Another thing: What about the "Prophetess"? They exist biblically...and also....where is their room for the prophetic ministry in our churches today? There is none; the pulpit is taken, generally, and there is no body life; the Priest-Class has assured that.

This will change, and I believe in the dark night, that suffering night soon coming upon us, when we will need and love the prophet who carries the lamp, as we will the least of those who are illumined by it, and know that he is just one part of the body, not the head. "Can the Eye say to the Hand, I have No need of You?"

Just another member of the body, learning to love and serve, becoming a good son to his Father, and a good brother to his family....Prophet or door-man. Not an exalted figure...Jesus only gets that, and he honors us all equally, and we are commanded to do the same.

We are not to exalt the prophet, but we must not reject him too. If you meet a real one, you only get his reward by receiving him as one sent by Christ, and he will be clothed in the same frail and sinning flesh as you are...so don't expect too much.

I believe in the dark night, that suffering night soon coming upon us, when we will need and love the prophet who carries the lamp, as we will the least of those who are illumined by it, and know that he is just one part of the body, not the head. "Can the Eye say to the Hand, I have No need of You?"

Just another member of the body, learning to love and serve, becoming a good son to his Father, and a good brother to his family....Prophet or door-man. Not an exalted figure...Jesus only gets that, and he honors us all equally, and we are commanded to do the same.

We are not to exalt the prophet, but we must not reject him too. If you meet a real one, you only get his reward by receiving him as one sent by Christ, and he will be clothed in the same frail and sinning flesh as you are...so don't expect too much. Brothertom.

Amen Tom. This is my understanding also. Its not that I don't recognise when some one is a real prophet by God's calling, its just the way they live and the vanity and self interest which when it arrises, is always to the cost of the brethren.

god bless you both ,and may god raise you both into the office of the prohet ,,if he has not allready amen

Given that I really do believe in the giving of prophets by God to serve His people in this day as at every time, both in Israel and the Church, it would be hypocritical not to comment on your post brother Gary. I think that Tom made the point that there will never again be prophets precisely like Jeremiah or Moses, or most probably like any of the Old Testament prophets. In fact one would have to say that John the Baptist was the last of these prophets. Not only are their names written in the Scriptures, but no one who has ever lived since the end of the first century is going to be so named in the Scripture. The cannon as Tom said is closed. Nevertheless there is such a thing as a prophet. Needs must that this is understood or else those who are so-called, and who become carnal and disobedient will find that they harm the flock rather than serve the flock.

We live in the day in which we live. We do not live in the time of Jeremiah or the time of Paul, we live in the time of you and me! We don't even live in the time of yesterday or last week or thirty years ago. We live today and we will live tomorrow if it pleases God. It is both today and tomorrow which should concern the prophet. Today because he can serve today and must work out his salvation with fear and trembling. He must also in obedience to his calling in Christ Jesus know how to labour towards tomorrow. Most of that will be in speech and most of it will be unknown even to the prophet. I have never spoken the words "thus says the Lord". Moreover I truly never expect to have to do so.

New testament prophets are born of the spirit of God. They have Christ in them by the Spirit of God and they themselves are alive in Christ Jesus. As are all who believe. This is much more than Moses had and all the Old testament prophets had. Only one Old testament prophet has exceeded the limitations of their day, and this is Elijah, who to this present hour lives in his physical body, yet in heaven. As such New Testament prophets have the potential to "do as (Christ has done) and greater than Christ has done. Yet this same claim, is also true of every one who believes if they have sufficient faith to believe what the Lord said on this. There are peculiar realities concerning New Testament prophets yet these peculiarities are of no account. The thing which matters is whether the calling is a real one or an imagined one. And if it is real, how to work it our in fear and trembling. The boastful words of many who in all but saying it, declare themselves to be prophets by using a gift of prophecy given by the Holy Spirit, weave a cover which amounts to shouting from the roof top "I am a prophet." Many who are like this don't even have the courage to say what they imagine in the vanity of their hearts. Some no doubt are deluded, yet for all that they still have a gift of prophecy. Others, who have a certain knowledge of God's calling and understand that prophet is not the same as gift of prophecy may still not say "I am a prophet" because they are restrained by God himself from doing so at that hour. Others are wicked because they know that they are able to lead and influence the brethren, yet are not walking straight and would still have glory and honor amongst men. Their affairs are known about yet they themselves have no shame and still insist on honor amongst the brethren. As one brother put it in this post their financial misdeeds can't be challenged because they constrain others from speaking the truth, by calling it "negative". Or else they say submit to God's authority. Or else follow me! Or else they say rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. The fear which is produced by such restraints gives ground to demonic oppression, which amounts to abusing the flock. And this is as nothing compared to what these ones do themselves out of their own flesh in abusing the flock as well.

On the other hand one who is in fact given as a prophet to the body and would not walk after their own imagination, but in the fear of God, can stumble and fall, and still act against themselves so as to judge themselves rightly and in that judgement marvel at God's hand to use them for good things, yet without any inclination or boasting in themselves. This is really a difficult thing to understand but Ahab stands as a real example of this in one real sense more than can be easily seen at first looking. David is a more simple and clear example because he had a heart after "God's own heart". So we easily understand how it could be that David is an example of a man who falls badly and yet whose throne still become the inheritance of Christ. Ahab on the other hand is said to have been the most perverse and wicked king of all. Understanding how Ahab can still symbolise God's sovereign purposes is much more difficult.

To be continued

According to Hebrews 1 God spoke to the Old Covenant people through the prophets. Under the New Covenant God speaks to us through his Son. His words have been written down in the New Testament. All believers in Christ Jesus have access to the New Testament. We hear God speak to us through the New Testament by his Spirit.

All that being said. One wonders about the need for prophets. I am not advocating a ceasing of the sign gifts of the Spirit. But I am wondering if we truly need so many of those who call themselves prophets given the Spirit and the words of Jesus under the New Covenant.

Just wondering.......

Bearmaster.

If I may continue my musings for a bit. The prophets were those chosen by God to speak his word under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant his word should dwell within us richly. All of us can speak the word to admonish, encourage, strengthen, build up, etc. Being we are in the body. We all have the same access to God. There is no religious class distinction here.

Must think more on this.

Bearmaster.

There will be no prophets in Heaven, or prophesying, for there, the Testimony of Jesus will be manifest, and His Word will have carried His course, and then, to pretend to prophesy among men [ the Millennial Reign of Christ] will be pure deception.

Zechariah 13
King James Version (KJV)

" In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth."

Revelation 19:10
"And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

One day that testimony will be fulfilled; Hallelujah!

The true Shepherds ARE on the way. They will be all we ever hoped for, and will lay their lives down for God's lambs, in love, no matter the cost to them.

Twenty years ago I was standing, holding hands in my home in a circle at the end of a home group meeting. As I stood, the Spirit of the Lord came on me in an unusual way, and I felt "the burning heart" consume me, and I prophesied.

"WHERE ARE THE FATHERS?"
"WHERE ARE THE FATHERS?"
"WHERE ARE THE FATHERS?"

I then wrote about seven national men who were in a place of authority, and only one wrote me back, but with no answer.

Eight years passed, and I had another visitation, I suppose, by the Lord. I was on fire; my chest area and heart area burned hard, and I was kneeling over in grief and indignation, and I prophesied again. [That prophecy is "The Sheepgate," which follows this post.]

This was God's reply to "Where are the Fathers?" They are coming, and at the same time, he is diminishing the role of the greedy shepherd.

THE SHEEPGATE
PROPHECY By Tom Watkins

"WHERE ARE THE FATHERS?"
"WHERE ARE THE FATHERS?"
"WHERE ARE THE FATHERS?"

THE SHEEPGATE.
PROPHECY
"An Appalling and horrible thing has happened to the land. The prophets prophesy falsely,and the Priests rule on their own authority.....and MY PEOPLE love it so!.....but....WHAT WILL YOU DO AT THE END OF IT?

Connected to "Where Are the Fathers?" is "The Sheepgate," a prophecy given in January, 1999.
THINGS HAVE CHANGED RECENTLY.
The Lord has established a sheep gate. Written over it is “Brethren” and “Freedom.” Every Christian on earth must pass through it.

The Prophetic Movement is over. It has fallen, even to the spirit of the Pharisees, and the Lord is grieved, and has judged it. Any brother, any leader, any Prophet, any Apostle, any Evangelist, any Pastor, any minister, that will not hear, and pass through this gate, shall be left out of the end-time ministry, His Harvest, His service.

I’ll say, “Thus says the Lord:”

BRETHREN:

“As much as you have done it to the least of these, MY BRETHREN, you have done it to ME.” [See Ezekiel 34....2-6]

1 CORINTHIAN: 11…27-32 "FOR HE WHO EATS AND DRINKS, DRINKS JUDGMENT TO HIMSELF; IF HE DOES NOT JUDGE [DISCERN] THE BODY RIGHTLY.”

Every blood-washed child, man or woman belongs to Jesus. He is jealous and passionate for them. The Pharisees refused to walk among them. Jesus loved Lazarus, Martha, and Mary, and many other nobodies like me, and you. Thank you, Lord Jesus.

The Pharisees hated Him for this. He could do nothing else, though; it was His nature.

“…but with force and severity you have dominated them…" [Ezekiel 34 ]

The Sheep Gate is receiving EVERY person as Jesus does. The Lord is on the other side with His Rod. HE is the good Shepherd.

MINISTRY AS WE HAVE KNOWN IT HAS CHANGED. THE LORD IS FED UP.
The Shepherds persecute and falsely prophesy against the heart of Jesus to preserve their place, power, and position. It is subtle, but real.

ISAIAH 40, 3-6 ”A VOICE IS CALLING;
“CLEAR THE WAY FOR THE LORD IN THE WILDERNESS!
MAKE SMOOTH IN THE DESERT A HIGHWAY FOR OUR GOD! LET EVERY VALLEY BE LIFTED UP, AND EVERY MOUNTAIN AND HILL BE MADE LOW. AND LET THE ROUGH GROUND BECOME A PLAIN, AND THE RUGGED TERRAIN A BROAD VALLEY;…THEN THE GLORY OF THE LORD SHALL BE REVEALED!…AND ALL FLESH WILL SEE IT TOGETHER!”…for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it!

The little ones, the helpless, the widows, the orphans, the unimportant, the diseased, and the driven away, the poor, the unlearned and the nobodies shall be exalted and honored by their King.

The arrogant, the rulers, the Princes, the Pharisees, and all that sit on top, and leave the meek their crumbs, SHALL BE MADE LOW!

THIS IS THE SHEEP GATE...[ and the Spirit of Elijah ] JESUS IS STANDING ON THE OTHER SIDE CALLING;
"WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY CHURCH?”…WITH HIS ROD.

A broad Plain is one body and unity. Equal love, equal mercy, equal honor…TO THE LEAST OF THESE MY BROTHERS. Jesus died for us ALL. He is bringing this to pass, and those who refuse this Word, shall be left out of end time ministry. They will NOT be allowed to touch anything holy. They will NOT adorn the Bride. They will NOT even be allowed to wash her feet, unless they obey this word.

That goes for every “leader”… [ servant ]. But for those who endure and receive it; they will be a part of the Revelation of the Glory of Jesus in His Holy Bride. They will be honored with clothing her; nurturing her, feeding Her, Protecting Her; ...even to the laying down of their own lives...and it will be glorious…TO GOD…AND TO MEN.

”FREEDOM”
Jesus is proclaiming freedom to His people. The fathers are coming forth. I have seen them in the end-times....[ another vision ] They are broken, humble and meek, and carry the heart of Jesus, and lead God’s people to the Lord Himself. They present the Bride to the King so that HE will be pleased. They are foot washers and they love the Bride. They lay their lives down and take great care, individually, as they walk and live in the midst of the church. They have the Father's heart, even to the least and to all. They are offended over sin, and will weep over individuals, and grieve over individual sins, like greed, selfishness and immorality.

They will eat with Mary and Martha, and hang out with Lazarus; just because they love the heart of the meek. They will be friends of sinners, and walk everyday on the streets as life givers.

No office buildings, no schedule books, no appointments; but SPIRIT-LED FATHERS THAT UNDERSTAND THAT ROYAL AND HIGH TITLE OF "BROTHER"!

They [ the fathers ] will protect the freedom of the church, AND THE CHURCH WILL BE FREE.

They will be given great authority, even as the 12 apostles, to protect her freedom. Many in leadership today will be jealous of this glory, and will want to steal it for themselves and their ministries…BUT THIS GROUP WILL NOT ALLOW IT.

The Pharisees today who don’t repent and come through WILL BE IGNORED AND BECOME IRRELEVANT! And great joy and holy Presence will rest upon this Church, and true FREEDOM TO BE LOVED BY Jesus…even to the least.

THIS IS THE SHEEP GATE.

Brother Tom Watkins.....We need grace in buckets to survive...but we will.

Given January 1999.

According to Hebrews 1 God spoke to the Old Covenant people through the prophets. Under the New Covenant God speaks to us through his Son. His words have been written down in the New Testament. All believers in Christ Jesus have access to the New Testament. We hear God speak to us through the New Testament by his Spirit.

All that being said. One wonders about the need for prophets. I am not advocating a ceasing of the sign gifts of the Spirit. But I am wondering if we truly need so many of those who call themselves prophets given the Spirit and the words of Jesus under the New Covenant.

If I may continue my musings for a bit. The prophets were those chosen by God to speak his word under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant his word should dwell within us richly. All of us can speak the word to admonish, encourage, strengthen, build up, etc. Being we are in the body. We all have the same access to God. There is no religious class distinction here.

Bearmaster thanks for these musings brother. They show exactly why it is necessary for believers to understand the prophetic, whether the gift of prophecy, by grace (Romans 12), by Faith (a gift of the Holy Spirit) (Corinthians 12), or by calling of God (Ephesians 4) the gift of a man.

No one who is born again actually needs to be taught or prophesied to with regard to knowing who Christ is in simplicity. In this sense we are all taught by God. When we first believed it was God Himself who led us, by the Spirit and the life we received is Christ Himself, by the Spirit. So that we could say that we have all been taught of God. When we speak of having been taught firstly by the Law and the Prophets and lastly by the Son, this is what is meant in part. This saying also speaks to the fact that the Law spoke of Christ as the Prophets prophesied of Christ. This was all in the past during the time of Israel. Then He who was spoken of came and Israel was taught of Him, even the Son. Today we are taught by the Holy Spirit and as a result we know Christ is indeed Lord. Everything which is given thereafter must clearly have another purpose in this direct sense. So that teachers, and teaching, prophecy and prophets would have to have a meaning different to the Law and the Prophets given to Israel.

It does also mean that there can be no special class of believer. No one can boast because we are all taught of God Himself. And having been taught concerning the Son, Who humbled Himself and became a servant, clearly any one claiming to be a teacher or a prophet must have this same attitude and mind. Otherwise we would have to say that they are become false. Not a fake teacher, not a fake prophet, but simply false. If they are not like minded with Christ then these men would inevitably become false because they would begin to lead God’s people astray. This is my understanding of false. Clearly in submitting this OP I have in mind something which speaks to this reality otherwise I would be acting foolishly and speculating foolishly. But unless we are all led of the Spirit as well as Taught of the Spirit we will none of us understand anything which exceeds what we understood when we first believed. This makes us vulnerable precisely because God Himself requires us to submit to those in authority, of whom there are teachers, pastors and elders. None of these are silent, and many are false. We all know of the extraordinary difficulties and abuses which have happened even by some of the greatest of God’s servants. No one is impervious to false hood if they allow themselves to be puffed up or else lose sight of Christ’s example of servant hood

Hi Andrew. First I need to apologize because my eyes have been so very tired, I have not been able to read this thread but only feel that I would like to comment on the title alone.

I do not by any means feel that we, as The Body of Christ, should "seek for prophets".

For the yrs that I've been on the Internet, I've viewed more Forums and Websites than I could ever number and on the overwhelming majority of Forums, there are self-proclaimed "prophets" that are Not. They're "prophet wannabes" and it is pandemic.

If there were any message on earth that The Body of Christ needs to hear, it's to Know His Voice Yourself!

Consecrate yourself unto The LORD in Holiness, as Brother Keith Daniel preached in his message "Be Ye Holy" and then with child-like humility - knowing "without Him, ye can do Nothing" and then just trust Him to be able to practice John 16:13 - to hear GOD for oneself - that He will "even show you [personally] things to come." THAT's a Promise to ALL of His Sheep and as Paul wrote - "pray that ye may be able to prophesy."

The "prophet-class" has become just like the "priest-class" that we all complain about.

I'm waiting on the Two Witnesses - those Two Prophets, that when they come, there will be no doubt of who they are and if what they say is true.

From all that I've seen since being in the Church - the few true prophets are out-numbered 1000 to 1 -- and whenever GOD does 'send' a true prophet - 700 false ones come right behind them and undoes whatever the true speaks. And that's a fact.

I believe the Sheep need to be empowered in their personal walks with GOD. To stay humbled before the Face of their GOD and then believe Him for John 16:13 as a very small child would trust a Good Father's word to them and trust that after that - ANY child of GOD can "prophesy" -- can speak the need of the hour and can see & tell "of things to Come."

His Sheep are buried in prayer and His Word - ever seeking HIS Face --- the True Shepherd.

When they find themselves all alone in the world, they won't fear because they Know their Shepherd's Voice and that He'll lead them completely.

Those that "seek prophets" etc - will not be able to stand alone during trials and persecutions, because they've depended on 'human beings' during their Christian life and not His Word and His Spirit of Truth to guide them into All Truth and Even Show Them things to come - because they haven't trusted Him and His Word strongly enough in order to KNOW HIS VOICE - follow HIM Alone and "not follow another".

Our first obligation is - To Seek GOD, and the Mind of Christ, through prayer, fasting and His Word. All of us.

Again - Please pardon me if this has gone off the topic or direction that you've been going in and forgive me for not having the eye-strength presently to read your thread before posting what is on my heart.

His Love to you & yours always.

Hello Anne

Thank you for sharing into this post. May you find the strength your eyes need to read freely! Your words haven’t detracted from the OP. Mindful that truth is established through division as far as men are concerned I realise that words can seem like one thing and then prove to be something else altogether. So have I written and yet I have to tell you sister I have written plainly.

Consecrate yourself unto The LORD in Holiness, as Brother Keith Daniel preached in his message "Be Ye Holy" and then with child-like humility - knowing "without Him, ye can do Nothing" and then just trust Him to be able to practice John 16:13 - to hear GOD for oneself - that He will "even show you [personally] things to come." THAT's a Promise to ALL of His Sheep and as Paul wrote - "pray that ye may be able to prophesy. Jesus-Is-God

Amen. If every one of God’s children desired and received by faith the gift of prophecy there would be an equality of speech and understanding in every place. Yet this would do nothing to stop falsehood and deception. Moreover this gift is given according to the will of the Holy Spirit. Seeking is one thing. Receiving is another. Further the gift of prophecy is not a gift to speak to gifted men it is a gift to speak to the ungifted or the unbeliever. It is given to reveal the hearts of men so that they are able to know that God is “among” men.

The gift of prophecy is become a cover for those who would call themselves prophets but realise that to do so would bring them into a different place. In it they would be more accountable both to men and to God. So they prefer to say, “Thus says the Lord” but only as a gift given to them, for the body, and not as a calling of God, in obedience, to be worked out in fear and trembling. Those who know that they have indeed been given as a gift of a prophet to the body cannot so easily speak, “Thus says the Lord”, but would rather speak from their hearts and give the Glory to God. Of these there is no need to call them prophets. By their words they are already known.

From all that I've seen since being in the Church - the few true prophets are out-numbered 1000 to 1 -- and whenever GOD does 'send' a true prophet - 700 false ones come right behind them and undoes whatever the true speaks. And that's a fact. Jesus-Is-God

It isn’t possible to undo what a true prophet speaks or else he is already proven false.

I believe the Sheep need to be empowered in their personal walks with GOD. To stay humbled before the Face of their GOD and then believe Him for John 16:13 as a very small child would trust a Good Father's word to them and trust that after that - ANY child of GOD can "prophesy" -- can speak the need of the hour and can see & tell "of things to Come." Jesus-Is-God

There are three applications in the New Testament which draws the meaning of prophecy out. Ephesians chapter 4 speaks of God’s gifts to men. These gifts are men and one of these gifts of men is prophets. So as a man can speak, so a prophet given as a gift of a man, can speak also. 1 Corinthians chapter 12 speaks of the Spirit’s gifts to the church, which is the gift of prophecy and is given according to the will of the Spirit to the one who asks and believes by faith without doubting. Finally Romans chapter 12 speaks of gifts of Grace, which is the ability through a life relationship with Christ which all believers have, to prophecy through Grace.

Those that "seek prophets" etc - will not be able to stand alone during trials and persecutions, because they've depended on 'human beings' during their Christian life and not His Word and His Spirit of Truth to guide them into All Truth and Even Show Them things to come - because they haven't trusted Him and His Word strongly enough in order to KNOW HIS VOICE - follow HIM Alone and "not follow another". Jesus-Is-God

The ability to stand comes from a life relationship with Christ. Regardless of how a believer may have been led or misled by a prophet or ten thousand prophets their ability to stand will always come from within. Either a person belongs to Christ or else they do not. Persecution strengthens and proves a true believer, whereas it makes the deluded sinner who is no believer at all, flee from Christ name, to a false peace and the company of men. In the end it will lead such deluded men to the mark of the beast.

As for those who truly believe, not only will they find the strength to stand in the day of tribulation, but God Himself will raise up strong prophets, whose strength is not their own name, whose shield is their faith and who’s faithfulness and righteous conduct will be as a fortified wall of bronze to God’s house. The faithful of God’s people will not run after them, but will trust in God Who sent them.

I'm waiting on the Two Witnesses - those Two Prophets, that when they come, there will be no doubt of who they are and if what they say is true.

If you want to see the two witnesses of Revelations you will have to be in Jerusalem during the great tribulation where they will be as witnesses to Israel and as a restraint to those who hate God and worship the beast and his image in that city. In the end they will be killed and in the presence of Israel they will be resurrected from the dead. Their prophecies will be to restrain as well as to bear witness of God. You sister do not need them because whilst you are of the household of Israel, you already have Christ and therefore Christ Himself is your witness.

Every blessing to you and your household also

The most singular reality of the Old Testament prophets which established them as true prophets was their authority. Yet it must be evident that this authority was itself established by their speech. Principally, that their words or prophesies came to pass. It is also true that all such prophets in the Old Testament were given honour among the people by and large. At times they were also feared, even as God Himself was feared. All of this however, did not hinge on the man himself, but rather of God choosing him and speaking to him in visions or else in his heart, which visions and thoughts when expressed came to pass in the sight of men. Yet for Israel having God’s prophets was not sufficient. So they asked for a king as well.

When Israel asked Samuel to pray for a king he sought God accordingly. 1 Samuel Chapter 8 through Chapter 12 covers this request for a king as well as how that king would be known and what the consequence of having a king would be, both for Israel as well as the king himself. It also covers Samuel’s attitude in dealing with this asking for a king.

It is easy to understand that once Israel had come under a king they would be thereafter subject to a king’s authority. There are many kings in the earth and they all have authority. Yet only the king of Israel can speak for God Himself, because he is in place of God. Israel rejected God as King over them but Israel did not reject God outright.

One of the strangest parts of this account has to do with Saul receiving a prophetic spirit and taking his place amongst the prophets. Samuel told Saul to take a particular journey and that when he arrived in that place, “the Spirit of the Lord will come upon (you) mightily and you will be changed into another man”. There is a real insight in this verse which points to something of the reality of the prophet. No one would say that today the gift of the Holy Spirit of prophecy causes one to change into another man. As a matter of truth all those who are born again, regardless of any gifts which they have been given, are become a new creature which is a far better thing. Many people have testified how a person was completely changed after they were born again. In revivals of God this phenomena is often more visibly evident. Sometimes a person is saved whilst in a truly wretched condition, and the change is also truly evident. Saul also changed from being simply Saul who was chosen by God to be a prince of Israel, into “one of the prophets.” He didn’t become a new creature, but he did become “another man”. It was necessary to become another man, because he would have the authority of God to be king over Israel. Something which in truth could only belong to God Himself, yet it was given to a man and so that man had to be able to speak for God, as well as be in the place of God before the people.

Today we are all chosen of God yet not all are prophets. All may prophecy, but all are not able to reflect God’s visible will and purposes both in their countenance and their speech. It may well be that all should be able to reflect in their lives the fullness of Christ. And were this to happen I have no doubt that there would be no need for prophets at all. Certainly it would be true that in the kingdom there could be no need for prophets, as Christ Himself would be both Prophet and King. In Saul’s day, as today, God’s people do not trust God, nor desire Him to be King of their lives, nor do they cease from denying Him. Not only this but many of God’s people are ever willing to go after a man rather then follow Christ Himself. As long as we are willing to go after other men in preference to God Himself we will not only cause those men to stumble, but we will have already stumbled ourselves by proving to be faithless. Just as Israel was faithless in their day, so are many saints faithless today. Just as God gave Israel a king, who also becomes a prophet, so today we, who have the True King, demand for prophets. If they speak for us, and tell us what God is thinking we imagine we will be delivered from our own faithlessness. The giving of prophets to the church has to do with dealing with this problem, just as it was of a true prophet under the law. In this regard there is no distinction. The real distinction would have to be that of false prophet and true prophet. The false will flatter and rule over, the true will stir up and serve, so as to cause God’s people to turn to Him and be faith full. Today saints do not ask for a king as this would be too blasphemous, instead they are ever willing to go after men who say “Thus says the Lord”. It is too easy to look for prophets and deny Christ who is both prophet and King; to go after a man, than to deny one’s self and follow Christ. Nevertheless God gives gifts to men. Some He gave as apostles, some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers. Amongst these gifts of God to men are prophets they are given for the express purpose of causing a growth, which when perfected is manifestly Christ Himself. By which forming God is glorified in heaven and on the earth.

There is a malady of the flesh which when expressed always denies God. There is a sickness in man’s heart which always tends to evil. There is an inclination of the faithless man to seek after other men. There is a vanity in men which always inclines to taking comfort from signs and wonders. There is a madness in men which always denies God. There is a way in men which causes others to stumble. There is an evil in men which rejects God who is Spirit, preferring instead flesh.

Keep deception and lies far from me, Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion, that I not be full and deny You and say, “Who is the LORD?” Or that I not be in want and steal, And profane the name of my God. Proverbs 30:8-9

Israel asked for a king. In the end their own conduct caused the king to stumble. His fear of the people caused him to disobey God. Saul was not a man after God’s own heart. God in His mercy and for His own name, raised up a man after His own heart, even David the son of Jesse. What God has chosen He can also reject, what He raises up he can also pull down. They that call themselves prophets cannot do as they please. If they do not serve God in obedience to God Himself, how will God overlook it. He will raise up faithful men and through them God will bring to nothing those who imagine in the vanity of their hearts that they serve God, yet in truth, they are serving themselves or else evil and faithless sons.

Brothergary: i really enjoyed your prophesy, and could hear the Lord in it, exhorting and encouraging. thank-you. This lady also saw something of the Holy bride, and this [ rather famous] prophecy has encouraged me much, as I have glimpsed that same Holy bride in vision...and received a similar word here, in the Sheepgate..

http://brideinthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/03/sheepgate.html#comment-form
PROPHECY
by Jane Leade
(A Heavenly Spy)

"There shall be a total and full redemption by Christ. This is a hidden mystery not to be understood without the revelation of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is at hand to reveal the same to all holy seekers and loving inquirers.

The completion of such a redemption is withheld and abstracted by the apocalyptic (or revelation) seals. Wherefore as the Spirit of God shall open up seal after seal, so shall this redemption come to be revealed both particularly and universally. In the gradual opening of the mystery of redemption in Christ doth consist the unsearchable wisdom of God; which may continually reveal new and fresh things to the worthy seeker. In order to which the ark of the Testimony in Heaven shall be opened before the end of this age and the living testimony herein contained shall be unsealed. The presence of the Divine Ark will constitute the life of this Virgin Church, and wherever this body is, there must the ark of necessity be.

The unsealing of the Living Testimony within the Ark of God must begin the promulgation of the everlasting gospel of the kingdom. The proclamation of the Testimony will be as the sounding of a trumpet of alarm to the nations of professed Christendom. Authority shall be given by Christ to the putting an end to all controversies concerning the true church that is born of the New Jerusalem mother. This decision will be the actual sealing of the body of Christ with the name (or Authority) of God, giving them a commission to act by the same.

This New Name (or Authority) will distinguish them from the seven thousand names of Babylon. The election and preparation of this Virgin Church is to be after a secret and hidden manner. As David in his ministry was chosen and anointed by the prophet of the Lord, yet was not admitted to the outward profession of the Kingdom for a considerable time afterward, of the stem of David a Virgin Church, which hath known nothing of a man or human constitution, is to be born and it will require some time for it to get out of the minority and arrive at full and mature age.

The birth of this Virgin Church was typified by St. John's vision where the great wonder appeared in heaven, bringing forth her first born that was caught up to the throne of God (or identified with the Authority of God). For as a virgin woman brought forth Christ after the flesh, so shall a Virgin Church bring forth the first born after the Spirit who shall be endowed with the seven spirits of God. This church so brought forth and sealed with the mark of Divine Authority will have no bonds or impositions, but the holy unction among these new born spirits will be all and all.

There is not at this day (1619) visible upon the earth such a church, all profession being found light when weighed in the balances. Therefore they are rejected by the Supreme Judge. Which rejection will be for this cause, that out of them may come a new and glorious church. Then shall the glory of God and the Lamb so rest upon this typical tabernacle so that it shall be called the Tabernacle of Wisdom, and though it is not now known in visibility, yet it shall be seen as coming out of the wilderness within a short time; then it will go on to multiply and propagate itself universally, not only to the number of the first born (144,000) but also to the remnant of the seed, against whom the Dragon will make war continually.

Wherefore, the spirit of David shall revive in this blossoming root. These will have might given them to overcome the Dragon and his angels, even as David overcame Goliath and the Philistine army. This will be the standing up of the great prince Michael, and will be as the appearance of Moses against Pharaoh, in order that the chosen seed may be brought out of hard servitude.

Egypt does figure this servile creation under which Abraham's seed groans, but a prophet, and the most prophetical generation, will the Most High raise up who shall deliver His people by the force of spiritual arms. For which there must be certain head powers to bear the first office, who are to be persons in favor with God, whose dread and fear shall fall on all nations, visible and invisible, because of the mighty acting power of the Holy Spirit which shall rest upon them. For Christ shall appear in some chosen vessels to bring into the Promised Land, the New Creation state.

Thus, Moses, Joshua, and Aaron may be considered types of some upon whom the same Spirit will come, yet in greater proportion. Whereby they shall make way for the ransomed of the Lord to return to Mt. Zion, but none shall stand under God but those who have become "tried" stones after the pattern and similitude of Christ. This will be fiery trial through which a very few will be able to pass or bear up in it. Whereby the waiters for this visible breaking forth are strictly charged to hold fast, and wait together in the unity of Pure Love. This trial will be of absolute necessity to all for the clearing away of all remaining infirmities of the natural mind, and the burning of all hay, wood, and stubble. For nothing must remain in the fire, for as a refiner shall He purify the sons of the kingdom.

There will be some who will be fully redeemed being clothed upon with a priestly garment after the Melchizedek order. This will qualify them for governing Authority. Therefore it is required on their part to suffer the Spirit of burning, and the fanning of the Fiery Breath searching every part within them until they arrive at a Fixed Body from whence the wonders are to flow out.

Upon this body will be the fixation of the Urim and Thummim that are the portion of the Melchizedek priesthood whose descent is not counted in the genealogy of that creation which is under the fall but in another genealogy which is a New Creation. Hence these priests will have a deep inward search and divine sight into secret things of Deity, will be able to prophesy in a clear ground; not darkly and enigmatically, for they will know what is couched in the first originality of all beings, in the eternal anti-type of nature, and will be able to bring them forth according to the divine counsel and ordination.

The Lord sweareth in truth and righteousness that from Abraham's line, according to the Spirit, there shall arise a Holy Priesthood. Abraham and Sarah were a type of that which would be produced and manifested in the last age. The mighty Spirit of Cyrus is appointed to lay the foundation of this third temple and support it in the building.

There are characteristics and marks whereby the pure Virgin Church shall be known and distinguished from all others and whereby the unction and true sound of the Holy Spirit shall be discerned from all others that are low, false and counterfeit. There must be a manifestation of the Spirit whereby to edify and raise up this Church, whereby bringing heaven down upon the earth and representing here the New Jerusalem state in order to which spirits are thus begotten and born of God, ascend to New Jerusalem above where their Head in majesty doth reign.

None but those who have so ascended and received of His glory can condescend and communicate the same, being thereby His representatives on the earth and subordinate priests under Him now. He that has ascended and glorified has made Himself, as it were, our Debtor. Consequently, He will not be wanting in qualifying and furnishing certain high and principal instruments who shall be most humble and as little regarded as David was, who He will dignify with honor and priestly sovereignty for drawing to them the scattered flocks and gathering them into one fold out of all nations.

Therefore, there should be a holy emulation and ambition stirred up among the bands of believers, that they may be of the first fruits unto Him that is risen from the dead and so be made principle agents for Him and with Him, that they may be, if possible, of the number of the first born of the New Jerusalem Mother. All true waiters of His Kingdom in Spirit, under whatsoever profession they may be, ought to be numbered among the virgin spirits to whom this message appertains.
"Be watchful and quicken your pace."
Jane Leade:1679
http://brideinthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/03/1679-prophecy.html#comment-form

Brother Gary your concerns as to my attitude towards you are ill founded. I had already discerned your condition when I read the prophecy and the preceding post, as well your third post which was your own part interpretation of the prophecy itself. My own labour was a labour of service to God to make the prophecy more readable as well as your interpretation more full. Having given them to you brother they are become your own possession. Do with them what you will in peace. I have not withdrawn my hand because of concerns for you Gary, but for a different reason altogether. Neither have I withdrawn from what I have done. Neither do I believe that I acted hastily in responding to your post. The only thing which matters in transparency so that others can judge freely.

There is a view about internet postings which seems to have wisdom, but in the end discernment is sufficient. The words you shared contain no heresy nor will they lead any one astray from the Lord. Only you can do that brother if you have a mind to do it. So judge yourself and then you will know your own heart and thereby have a clear conscience.

Given the time which has elapsed since the original posts and the fact that you have posted the prophecy several times, you should be seeking to understand why it is that no one other than myself and now Tom has been willing to comment. I can tell you the answer in a simple way. No one is going to endorse what they cannot discern or understand. The difficulty in understanding comes from the difficulty in the way the prophecy is written. If it had been spoken it would be equivalent to slurred speech. I don't mean this offensively Gary, but this was what first led me to read the part interpretation so carefully. It was only after setting my face to reading it that I was really blessed. Before that I simply discerned something of your attitude in writing it, which I thought was lovely.

I once said to you that if you did not repost the prophecy yourself, one day I would repost it myself. Now I will because even now there is a need for clarity. What you have posted here in this thread would sow confusion and defeat the purpose for which it was given. Beyond that anyone reading this should follow the links enclosed in order to understand the discrepancy. If you feel you should repost the part interpretation Gary which I re-wrote then let the reader understand that it also contains the original link which should also be looked at.

A Season of Separation

A Prophecy by Brother Gary
Posted on Sermon Index on the 26/05/2012

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44952&forum=35&1

A literal transposition into prosaic form,
from the original text:
By Brother Andrew 28th - 29th May 2012

Meditation and Mind of Preparation

Come! Reckon yourselves dead unto sin!
He is hanging on the Cross for us!
See the Blood!
See the Pain!
Watch! The Sacrifice of the Holy Lamb (of God)!
See how He offers Himself to God! For us!
Listen! Hear the earth quake!
And the Cry of the Lamb!
Listen! The Chords of Sin break! Whilst He cries out!
(Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani?)
My God! My God! Why have you forsaken Me?

It is finished!
He has broken the head of the snake!
The propitiation! The Offering is Complete!
The Son has set you free!
And you are Free indeed!
He has broken the Power of Sin over His people!
Truly this was the Son of God!
Who was bruised for our iniquity!
The chastisement of our Peace was upon Him!
He bore our sins! Listen to His pain!
By these stripes we are healed!

Declaration and Mind of Readiness

The chords of Sin are gone!
The leash of iniquity is released!
He has set you free from the leash of slavery!
Sin has no more dominion over us!
He condemned sin in the flesh!
You are Free. He set you Free!
Reckon yourselves dead unto sin!

Sin’s dominion was nailed to the Cross!
He, who knew no sin, became Sin!
Cursed is He who is hung on the tree!
The curse is taken from you!
Now you must leave that curse on the Tree!
Leave your old man on the Cross!
Resist the Devil, and he will flees from you!

Exhortation and Mind of Readiness

Take the grain of mustard seed on your lips!
Let it sprout, grow and bear Fruit!
Confess the Truth to one another!
HE SET YOU FREE!
THE CROSS HAS SET YOU FREE!
What was nailed on the altar is become your freedom!
Rejoice now in your liberty!
Where sin abounded; Grace abounded more!
He set you free!

Commandment and Mind of Readiness

Step out from the old traps!
Don’t let the traps entangle you!
You are made free!
You are made a new creature!
Walk by Faith!
For I know My sheep!
And they follow Me!
Endure the narrow path which I have made for you!
And you ARE saved!
No one is able to pluck you out of my hand!
Obedience has crucified the flesh and its passions!
Listen to its cries and know that therein death has come.
As the flower of the field passes away!
When I make the sun rise!
So the flower of the flesh has been cut from you!
Walk away now!
Don’t hold onto a cut rose seeing only its dying attraction!
Walk now to the empty Tomb!
Behold! See that I am not there!
I am vindicated! So are you! Come to Me! And Hold Me!
See that it IS Me!
Hold your brother by the hand also!
Bring him to Me! Pull him away from the rose which holds his gaze.
Leave him not outside the Camp.
Lead him through the (narrow) gate! To my feet!
Where I hung for you!

Two Sons’.: Two Servants’:
George Whitfield and John Wesley

Put aside your differing doctrines!
Like My two sons Whom I raised up for My sake! And for yours!
And remember my first (servant’s) funeral!
Remember the (mind of) My Spirit that was there!
That I gave myself for the Bond of Peace!
Hold each one’s hand with a Brotherly kiss. For a moment!
And look to Me. Remembering your own benefit!
Then I will lift you in My Sanctification!
Even the Sanctification which I have Sanctified you with!
Touch not My Liberties you have with (your whole) heart!
But touch my Hands and Feet! And My Side! With a full (earnest) Gaze!
Separate yourself for a season! (A time and Half a Time)!
Then you will know that I have separated you Forever!
Separate Yourselves! The season is Come!
And the season itself will separate you!

The Prophecy of Effects

It is the Season of Rain!
Come and be washed in this new rain of old!
Blow the trumpet!
There is a wet season and a flood!
This flood shall be for a narrow tributary this season!
The richness of the waters in this season will feed the Trees!
And the Trees will indeed bear fruit!
And the fruit will be stored in My Barns!
It will feed those who Thirst in the dry season!
A season which is near!
And they shall Ask! And it will be given to them!
This will be to a different Harvest!
Different from the last four!
It will be My best fruit!
In the last minute, of the last hour of My last days!
And Behold!
This will prepare My Way! And make My paths Straight!
My Prophets are coming!
For I Myself have raised them!
From before the world was!
And I will lead them! As I have led you!
And you will surly know who are olive trees in the season to come!

Commandment and A Mind of Obedience

Now I Call you! All of you to Repent!
And do not your own Works!
Even My Prophets and My Pastors!
All of you at This Time! Shall Repent!
And Hear what your Everlasting Father is saying to you!
Listen to me!
As you are My children!
I have some things more for all of you!
Some shall do the First Works!
And others shall do the Works which they have never done before!

Personal Exhortation to a son

And even My weak wayward son!
Through whom I have spoken!
He also must dig very deep and Repent!
And do the works he has never done before!
And bear fruit of deep repentance!
And Prove his love to Me!

Sufficiency of Grace, the Word and Hearing

My Grace is sufficient!
And I will supply! According to your Need!
This is what the LORD is saying to you!
My Word is in you!
And in your mouth!
Listen to what The Spirit is saying to you tonight!

Thank you brother. I know that you didn't share your concern with malice. You must see though that part of writing in a leading of the Holy Spirit brings with it a need to have confidence in serving God. Many brethren take their confidence from doctrines. This is similar to Paul having taken confidence in the Law before he was really saved. Most of the time when I am wrong I take confidence in legalistic mutterings about doctrines. Real doctrines are the possession of God. Yet we take confidence in them because this allows us to ignore our own weaknesses. Whilst doctrines are given to the church for instruction and correction we shouldn't hold them up as a barrier to hide from who we really are. Doctrines may well give us confidence if they are indeed the doctrines of God, but it is only a living faith which brings the peace of God to serve Him. I said to you in the original post that I thought your comments about the prophecy were faithful. I think this is the opposite of pride of doctrines. Courage to say what you have believed even though you realise that others will judge you and may even reject you, is something worth understanding. If you think on it where do we really get our confidence from? It comes from those moments when God touches us, because despite ourselves God's touch brings reality into our lives. Nothing else matters at that moment but the touch and the reality of God. What God Himself touches is real. And that which touches God is real. We may have every kind of difficulty in life and we may be wretched with sin. Yet when God reaches into our lives and speaks just one word everything becomes focused on God. Then we know again and we remember again that we are loved of God, and that He is ever merciful and faithful. And when we remember that it was Christ Jesus Who gave Himself to make this reality of knowing God possible, we weep and we are healed. The Lord Bless you brother.

This is the link to your original post on the part prophetic interpretation:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44975&forum=35&10

Often, true prophesy reminds me of the pomegranate: one Fruit with multi-clusters and levels of seed within. This is my experience; it cannot be proven except by witness and a bearing witness, though it must agree , or at least not defy the Written Word; the Bible.

If we consider much of the Psalms, and the amazing and colorful tapestry of Ecclesiastes,and SONG...we see entire books written in a mystic PATTERN, with layers, and hidden seed that continues to manifest, each hidden in beautiful order behind each little seed that we then see; an unfolding as it were...and a grasping of life and faith that may be beyond our grasp to define; yet experience ourselves being magnetized closer and closer to God Himself.

This is a pure spirit ministry, that certainly for each and every believer, and desired by God Himself that we display, as it is a supreme force of edification, to enlist our souls to a deeper, and more contagious devotion to our Father as He is, and all of this hidden and undefinable.

So, BrotherGary! this is how I see your utterance prophecy...[My words ].

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."

"I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."

" Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."

" For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

... And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."

I experienced comfort Gary, and what a most excellent job of translation, Andrew; Beautiful writing and interpretation.

I want to point out that this thread is about the New Testament prophet; Not the Old testament one. It appears that prophets were varied and many, and that the Apostles, especially considering the greatest, Paul, was derived by God from his first ministry as a new Testament Prophet.

"Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

" As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

... And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away."

Apostles were then named "Sent ones", which initially referred to their sending from the Prophet ranks, as a messenger; IE...Apostles are, and were; SUPER PROPHETS! with more Revelation and miracle power than the "Common prophet", which seemed prolific in number in the early church....as they must be today.

It is because of the radical and spiritual paranoia, I think, that much of the prophetic ministry is paralyzed today, and the devil has succeeded in this work to do so. Remember Jesus in His own town, Nazareth?

The King of Glory himself, the Creator of all creatures great and small, the first and last, holding all the fullness of the Godhead Himself....unable to do much of their mighty works He did before; WHY....because they refused to believe in Him, they refused to receive Him.

So, such is the mentality of the church and ministry today. Remember, the super-prophet, the Apostle, directs revelation and doctrine within the church, and is as much or more as needed within the church as the prophet, but the tradition of men and revelation itself, stripping the Priest class of it's control and power, and living; always resists the true, and I believe always will.

If prophets arose now, with perfect reliability and extreme anointing that expresses their valued endorsement of the Father Himself, this class would yet reject them, as the same spirit did reject the Lord Jesus himself, in like manner, because He would take away their power, position, and PLACE as the Nicolaitan they promote themselves to be. This is why the true prophet is always stoned to death, one way or another. Today we call it character assassination.

This was a normal and accepted ministry in the church of the Apostle Paul, both before he was ordained by God, and after he was sent by God, as a New Testament prophet.

We must admit that these are as much the Word of God as the Gospels, yet their apparent yield of manifest fruit may seem unapparent to most.

Brother, Andrew you always touch my spirit with your words. Clearly u have somewhat of a handle on the spiritual man that we need in this hour. Thank you for your inspiring comments. gators52

Thank you for your encouragement. It is a blessing to me.

a good message that I read from brother Leonard Ravenhill. I hope that it encourages you as much as it encourages me. Christopher

I did enjoy the message from Leonard. I very much agree that really exceptional needs must be met by really exceptional men. Though only because God has made it so. It can't be faked. In the end my hope and faith is that God will do it. He will remain faithful to the end.

I think that the New Testament doctrine of prophets being a part of the body was a usual as the Pastors role in the Church. It is the Supernatural aspect of the prophet; the revelatory nature of his ministry, that is generally rejected, because the larger body of Christ does not operate in a walk by the Spirit.[ The Spiritual walk is Supernatural by definition. ]

There is a perfectly good side to this; we must judge; discern what is of God and what is not, or we could believe a lie, and be damned. It appears that this one done regularly in the New Testament churches as common practice:

"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace."

For one thing, the acceptance of prophets to prophesy would by nature, annihilate the Priest Class mentality of the Pastor class dominating and controlling the "SERVICE"; ie: the "PULPIT DRIVEN" ceremony of the "message", the "offering and tithe" and the salute.

To actually accept the prophet, would throw a monkey wrench into the whole rule of order! You know, like the one on the church [ or conference ] bulletin that is handed out when you arrive at the building.

Also, if prophets were accepted and used by God, they by nature would have a handle above the Pastor, as per Ephesians 4..1st Apostles, 2nd, Prophets...

This is entirely unacceptable in their eyes, and cannot happen, lest the Priest-class crowd be forced to give up their means of making a living: IE, living upon the backs of the church, as the Professional Class. [ all anointed, of course.]

This is really why so many bristle at this thought, is it not? I agree that there is much more opportunity for error, and deception, in the accepting of the prophetic; but let me remind you, they expected to be judged, and were, intensely.

The second misconception about them, is that they are above the common thread of saints. They were, and are not; they are as common as your little sister; they are just people, who are given a gift from God, for your blessing.

Let me share a dream I had:

"A Gift From SOMEONE else, TO someone else."....A prophetic Call..[ many years ago..]

I went into a vision/dream. In it I was standing alone, dressed in the most common clothing; very non-descript and common. I held in my hand a roll, like a magazine or newspaper, and it was wrapped in vanilla wrapping paper, like you would see in a common paper sack at the grocery store.

The contents of the roll I held were not common however. There was a glory and light emanating from what I held; very bright with gold and diamond streams shining out.

Suddenly, fifteen or twenty people surrounded me and they grabbed the scroll from me, and ripped off the manila covering, and an explosion of glory occurred, as God's glory exploded throughout them. They were overcome with joy, shouting and dancing, and they just ran away in their bliss.

Bewildered, I said outloud; "Golly! Not even a thank-you!"...

And the Lord spoke to me from up above, in a very kind Voice;

"A GIFT FROM SOMEONE ELSE, TO SOMEONE ELSE!"
........................................................................dream ended.........

I understood my status more clearly. I have been given many Words from the Lord over 40 years, in my calling as a seer/prophet. In the end, however, I am as common as they come, and a no-body. God chose me against my will, and gifted me, but not that I am anything unto myself. I carry a gift for others; Primarily the Holy Redeemed Church of Jesus of Nazareth; the Crucified and Risen ONE!.......GOD ALMIGHTY!

There is no reward in this ministry whatsoever from men; Just the opposite. Mostly I am hated and despised and rejected; it comes with the territory. I cannot lay it down. It is with me until the day of my death, and may in one sense be the most miserable of gifts.

Wrapped in it is unimaginable warfare; real combat with the most powerful of devils and sorcerers that serve them. Terminal loneliness is always crouching on my doorstep, as is the satanic nature that I am also, so wicked, warring constantly for me to submit to it in unholy corruption.

The gift is about carrying His Heart above all, and MERCY and COMPASSION and LOVE.....while wielding real Heavenly authority to tear down the rule of wicked princes who rule Nations and territories above.

I have been shown the future in realms of glory to the church, and judgment to the church, and to America. I know there is a Remnant that will stand in this country to see Jesus return, and before He returns, she will dwell so close to Him in awesome maturity, that whoever touches this Holy remnant Bride, will be touching Jesus Himself!...The same way as He dwelt in the Pillar of Fire following the desert Bride of Moses' day.

Miraculous provision will be brought to her, and she will do exploits, and armies will fear her. There will be an AMERICAN BAND OF MARTYRS that will chose to GO to eminent slaughter to many nations to preach Jesus where they will surely die, yet there will be endless volunteers that will take there place, no matter the cost of their mere lives.

We will see the END OF THE AMERICAN DREAM with a total collapse of the economy, as I was shown in 2003, with an audible Word from the Lord saying "A Mortgage Greed Crisis " AS THE CAUSE......with Millions Homeless without hope.....and multitudes of Blacks and minorities RIOT ANGRY!

There will emerge the holiest company of men and women, filled with Jesus, that America has ever seen. These will be a true Apostolic company, that will emit real Glory throughout the Land, and out of these, REAL REVIVAL will flow, and it shall be unto the least of the Brethren, whoever he or she could be.

There will arise real and true American apostles of God, who will possess authority unseen before. They will manifest ALL authority over the ENEMIES of GOD, and terrify them, and exercise this power within the church, as champions of the poor and meek, and will be no respecter of persons. They will honor every blood washed child equally, with equal love, as Jesus always does.

True Churches will spring up following their preaching, as they walk among the poor as Ambassadors of Jesus Himself, with healing power, and casting out devils; right here in America. The Pharisee/Nicolaitan One-man-glory show ends when they arrive, along with the professional ministry crowd, who make their living off of the back of the church. They will refuse money and salary, and reinstate the plural, unpaid ministry Pastors, as it was in the beginning.

It will be a time without money, and hardship, but a time when glory abounds as Jesus keeps His Promises. There will be an invading army strike, and invade America after defeating her. 100 million + will die in this war, on American soil. God is in control.

This is the final judgment on America, as she has Prostituted herself unto Babylon, and her four great sins:

1. Murder: 60 million innocent children slaughtered.

2 . Sorcery and drugs: Rampant witchcraft and an America high on prescription and illegal dopa.

3. Theft: Business is taught to prey upon all, to extract more profit, no matter what. GREED. "The Banking Spirit." It is an epidemic in America.

4. Fornication and Immorality: Sextexts of 12 year olds, Lady Ga-Ga-, Madonna, "boyfriends" and "girlfriends"= sex-teddy bears, Homosexual marriages, congressmen and women, Presidential endorsement of all sodomy, Pornography covering the planet Earth, TV nudity, Movies "R" now "X"...etc.

For these four sins, we will cease to be a nation, with every American base annihilated, along with most of our major cities, and our entire National defense forces .

Then, after a short time, we will be invaded, and occupied. I stood on the reeds around the Texas/Louisiana coast, and heard a might Army marching; thunderous cadence approaching, with the ground pounding, and there, out of the Sea they came, dark haired many, with weapons and light packs...multitudes...and the Lord Spoke "20 MILLION!"

It will be the worst of times, yet the best of times. Jesus is bringing the blessing, and with it the other side of the Sword of the Lord; the Curse. Choose this day who you will serve, and give your whole heart to your Master.

I am a nobody, really, but I have seen and heard. One of the standards, of the prophetic, as I see it, is that they must never control or manipulate others because or out of the gift. We must realize that they are just men, weak and frail, just like you, and imperfect...and in the End, the Word of God trumps their word.

They are like little flashlights for the body, as the church travels through time; just reflections of the Bigger light for a season as they live and die; a gift for the mortal church. There will be no prophets in Heaven, and they can never attain to the status as the Holy Apostles and Prophets of old, who were used to frame the Word of God itself.

They are sinners too, like me, who cry out;

" But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

"Oh! wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?!!"

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

and just like you....it is simply a gift embedded in frailty, that God chose.

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are."

And it is interesting to me, that religious people, the Priest-Class crowd, that earn their living off of the church, are the ones that hate me the most.

Also, if prophets were accepted and used by God, they by nature would have a handle above the Pastor, as per Ephesians 4..1st Apostles, 2nd, Prophets...

This is entirely unacceptable in their eyes, and cannot happen, lest the Priest-class crowd be forced to give up their means of making a living: IE, living upon the backs of the church, as the Professional Class. [ all anointed, of course.]

This is really why so many bristle at this thought, is it not? I agree that there is much more opportunity for error, and deception, in the accepting of the prophetic; but let me remind you, they expected to be judged, and were, intensely. Tom

This hits the nail right on the head Tom. I have seen pastors resist all prophetic insight to the point of holding prophets in complete contempt. As a result the prophetic man has to learn to walk "outside" the church as well as be subject to the authority of elders and the elder pastor. One thing which I have come to believe very strongly is that prophets should never hold governmental authority in the church. In short they should never be elders as well. The very nature of the ministry of the prophet must be proven by God Himself. To that extent what prophets say and expose or else reveal is either fully rejected or else fully accepted. This seems to cut right to the heart of that calling. Rejection is something a prophet had better get used to. At the same time he had better learn to walk with genuine humility. Or else when God does establish his words he will stumble and cause many to stumble with him as well.

Some pastors are open to the prophetic man, but only when they agree with them. Others seeing the insight they have actually hate them because of it. The poor pastor is always getting used and abused, he struggles with difficult men and women, he wrestles with sin and unrighteousness in the flock, he is lied to and deceived by falsehood in those who will not repent and take up their cross. He labours this way for the love of Jesus and a desire to feed the sheep. The prophet on the other hand sees much, knows much, can rebuke a falsehood in an instant, he can discern the motives of men's hearts and all because he covets God's own righteousness as though it were his own. So the pastor feeds the sheep and the prophet keeps the sheep. It can never be one or the other it is always both.

There was a pastor once who for very real and difficult reasons came to draw back from pastoring. He simply didn't know how to deal with the condition of the flock he pastored. Having spent some days seeking to encourage him I eventually explained that he had only to look for those who were given as a prophet in his church and encourage them to function. As I was sharing I received a wonderful picture of the nature and relationship of prophet and pastor and how they complement and support one another in the ministry. I saw a high cliff face or rock wall made of black stone. In amongst the solid stone I could see many beautiful and precious stones. I spoke to the black stone and it was smashed down into thousands of pieces. At first I was concerned, but them I saw a pastor walking through the shards picking up the precious stones. There was a great effect and outcome. This seems to me to express the visible and spiritual relationship between prophets and pastors.

Nevertheless no prophet should ever be given governmental authority over the flock. The prophetic man should only exercise spiritual authority. Whereas the pastor who also has spiritual authority may also become an elder. In this way he may become an elder pastor. Spiritual authority has its order of effects but governmental authority is always a matter of government. So I believe.

In conclusion of this thread I am posting the following article. I truly pray that it speaks to those on SI who are still wondering about the real and difficult issue of false prophets. My sincere hope is that the true prophets of God in the New Testament church where ever they may be learn how to resist the mistakes of the past as well as the shallowness of this day. Also that whosoever has rejected God's provision for the body will realise that their is such a thing as true, not only in the prophetic ministry, but in the teaching ministry also, and that saints will learn to both test and learn from those who are given in the ministry of The Word and not reject God's gifts in the local church. No internet prophet can harm anyone. If we ourselves are not inclined to being faithless then we cannot be deceived. Going after men is faithless because we should always Go after God Himself. No true minister of the Word will ever seek to turn God's children away from the Father in heaven. Yet many have and many will continue to do so.

Although some people say that they do not seek for prophets the reality is that many people do. It is the very nature of the flesh or the natural mind to seek after those who are able to speak well and with their speech draw people into an understanding which may be sound in content, but may also be subtle and divisive. Whilst this idea is of no great substance it is nevertheless very real. Much more real than this idea is the experience of being born again and the reality of the position it places believers in if they do not hold fast to the Scriptures. When a person is born again there is a godly desire to be with other believers. Not only does this become real and tangible to the individual believer, but the individual themselves, by their confession of faith become real and tangible to others. When a person is saved at least two real outcomes begin to work in and through believers. The one is an expression of their “first love” of the Lord Jesus Himself which is something truly wonderful to witness. This initial condition will keep the new believer even as Christ Himself can keep them by the Holy Spirit. The other outcome working in believers is a need to be received by other saints. The one brings you into a life relationship with God through Christ Jesus and the other into an expression of a life relationship with other saints through Christ Jesus. The one is the Head, even Christ and the other is the body, even the brethren.

What you cannot understand at that moment of conversion is the risk which comes with the reality. As far as the Lord is concerned there is no risk at all. In fact at that moment of believing you receive to yourself everything which pertains to eternal life. Yet all that which you receive is in Christ Himself and your possession of this treasure is in your spirit as “Christ in you the hope of glory.” Even though by believing you have received the gift of eternal life, this gift is Christ Himself. Salvation is not simply a matter of your possessing the gift of life in your own spirit; it is more profoundly the same as being possessed of Christ Himself. Your mind and your body do not possess this treasure of eternal life. It is a spiritual possession and will always be a spiritual possession. The mind cannot be born again. It must be renewed. And the body itself still has the law of sin and death working in it. The power of sin in the body needs to be taken account of so that you can guard against sin. Whilst understanding that it is needful to take account of the law of sin and death working in the body, as well as the need to be renewed in your thinking, it is likely that your first love of the Lord Himself will keep you from harm in this short season of time. Your focus at this time is on Christ Himself, and even with regard to other believers, what you see is Christ in them. It is a profound and wonderful season. However unless you are taught to continue in your reliance on Christ Himself, and taught the importance of taking account of your physical body with its lusts and desires, you will soon begin to find yourself looking to yourself as you realise the struggle which is now going on in your body and mind. The struggle is nothing less than The Holy Spirit waging war against the members of your body so that you will not do the things which your fleshy mind and body are naturally inclined to do. Yet this struggle is just one reality which you will become aware of. You will also become aware of the sin itself. This awareness if it is not made sense of will lead you to look into yourself and take your eyes of Christ.

This moment is your most vulnerable moment. Not only are you aware of your own sin, but you are more vulnerable to deception than at any other time in your life hither too. It is only possible to become vulnerable to deception after you have received the Truth. Before that you were not vulnerable to deception you were in fact deceived. More than this vulnerability there is also another more difficult problem of needing to be taught those things which will turn your gaze back to Christ Himself and away from your own self. The conviction of sin and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ought to be sufficient. After all The Holy Spirit has come to lead us into all Truth. There is though no escaping the fact that every believer needs to be taught to walk by faith. We cannot teach ourselves. We may read the Scriptures and we may well begin to understand that we need to confess our sins. Or that we need to walk in the light. But what if someone says, follow me! What can you do when the man who says follow me is the pastor. Or perhaps a prophet or in fact regardless of what he is, but is just a man? What if this man is a wolf and is no believer at all? But is come into the flock to comprehend your liberty so that he can once again bring you into bondage of the flesh; a place where there is no liberty at all. How will you know that he is a wolf after he has seduced you? The reality is that this is not a fiction, nor an exaggeration. As a young believer or unlearned you are not able to make distinctions of this kind. Unless God Himself purposes to keep you from harm to the extent that He sets aside the prophets and the pastors and teachers and the wolf is destroyed, you may encounter all of these men yourself. This may well be what some saints have come to believe. That God by some means or other will set aside the ministry of the Word of God in the body and at the same time drive the wolf from our midst. That once again we will become brethren, Philadelphia the church of brotherly love. A time when we will be no longer Laodicea, the church of individuality, boastings and riches! Rather the church of the apostles where equality is sought and desired and no one lies against the Holy Spirit except that they shall taste death in the presence of the brethren.

Well one would have to say that if the Scriptures taught that God is building the church Himself without labourers, we would be able to take our place in the faithful wait on God. We do not know what the church is! It has not yet been revealed because it has not yet been fully built. Yes God is building the church, and his tools are workmen. The church may well be a mystery but the workmen are flesh and blood. More than this we have a desire to be something more than a living temple, if we knew of it; we would also desire to be the Bride of Christ. The living temple of our God is the church, but the Bride of Christ is in the Church. The Groom is in heaven and will come to receive His bride at the appointed hour. Moreover the Bride must make herself ready. She cannot be forced to dress in readiness. She is not taken by force but must come in love for the Groom and in a willingness of submission and great hope. When the Bride has made herself ready then will the Groom come to gather his Bride from the church and to the marriage feast of the Lamb..

There is a dual responsibility for every saint of God and Christ. Firstly to labour according to God’s calling, secondly to dress in readiness. The labour is collective and distributed amongst the many according to God’s own distribution and determination. The dressing in readiness is personal and carried out in secret, which is to say in the heart. It is not possible to put aside the ministry of God’s Word any more than it would be wise to refuse to dress in readiness. Neither will the labourers be put aside nor will God compel anyone to dress in readiness. Unfaithfulness of either the labourer or the member will not pass without consequence or cost. The greatest responsibility in the body of Christ lies with those who are given as men to the body in the ministry of the Word of God. Many of these men will continue in their greed and unfaithfulness right until the end of this age. Only persecution will sift them. And even then some will deny Christ rather than obey. They will not go away however and so we have to know how to walk ourselves and at the same time trust in God’s choosing of His labourers for the purpose of the building of His house. Of these labourers no one is more equipped to cause stumbling than the prophet. Not a fake prophet, but a false prophet. One who turns God’s people away from God! God Himself will permit it and by it will sift the hearts of men so that in the end those who love truth will become the visible church and those who are become faithless will believe the lie and fall away.

Dear Brother Andrew - here I am for the 2nd time on your thread. I'll tell you why. My closest friend of many yrs called today and was talking about a sermon she just listened to by Keith Daniel, where he tells of how The LORD led him to a certain house and he persisted to knock on the door and his wife was a bit on edge about it, because neither knew who lived there - but Brother Daniel persisted and rather loudly banging and finally went to the window and started to yell into the window, something like "Jeuss Loves you, no matter what you're going through" [something like that] and as it turned out, the woman inside that wouldn't answer the door, was about to commit suicide. He talked with her and gave his phone # and all.
I may not have the details down perfectly - but this thread came to mind.
Most of us would think - "Well, That's Keith Daniel - I'm not like him and GOD can't use me that way."

Brother - if you wouldn't mind - I feel to Repost what I was trying to say earlier in this thread, because it's heavy on my heart that, YES, GOD CAN USE US ALL THIS WAY and from what I know from what I've seen in regular folks - this 'is' supposed to be the normal-Christian life.
I just get tears when I think that some feel that GOD can't use them in this way. He Does speak to His Children and can give them a check in their spirit, when something isn't right, or what to do next, etc..

I just felt we all need to know this - despite my lack.

Modified repost:

If there were any message on earth that The Body of Christ needs to hear, it's to Know His Voice Yourself!

Consecrate yourself unto The LORD in Holiness, as Brother Keith Daniel preached in his message "Be Ye Holy, for I Am Holy" and then with child-like humility - knowing "without Him, you can do Nothing" - then just trust Him to be able to practice John 16:13 - to hear GOD for oneself - that He will "even show you [personally] things to come."
THAT's a Promise to ALL of His Sheep and as Paul wrote - "pray that ye may be able to prophesy."

The "prophet-class" has become just like the "priest-class" that we all complain about.

From all that I've seen since being in the Church - the few true prophets are out-numbered 1000 to 1 -- and whenever GOD does 'send' a true prophet - 700 false ones come right behind them and undoes whatever the true speaks. And that's a fact.

I believe the Sheep need to be empowered in their personal walks with GOD. To stay humbled before the Face of their GOD and then believe Him for John 16:13,14 as a very small child would trust a Good Father's word to them and trust that after that - ANY child of GOD can "prophesy" -- can speak the need of the hour and can see & tell "of things to Come."

His Sheep are buried in prayer and His Word - ever seeking HIS Face --- the True Shepherd.

When they find themselves all alone in the world, they won't fear because they Know their Shepherd's Voice and that He'll lead them completely.

Those that "seek prophets" etc - will not be able to stand alone during trials and persecutions, because they've depended on 'human beings' during their Christian life and not His Word and His Spirit of Truth to guide them into All Truth and Even Show Them things to come - because they haven't trusted Him and His Word strongly enough in order to KNOW HIS VOICE - follow HIM Alone and "not follow another". John 10. [ie - like Keith Daniel did]

Our first obligation is - To Seek GOD, and the Mind of Christ, through prayer, fasting and His Word. All of us.

eta - I believe in these coming days, that those that realize that it's all of Him and not of us - that as Daniel said - they'll be used in ways that will save lives ["do exploits" and "win many to righteousness"] - regardless whether they have a title of prophet or not and the prophets will empower the Saints with that confidence in GOD and not in themselves.

His Love to you & yours always.

I feel to Repost what I was trying to say earlier in this thread, because it's heavy on my heart that, YES, GOD CAN USE US ALL THIS WAY and from what I know from what I've seen in regular folks - this 'is' supposed to be the normal-Christian life. Anne.

Anne there is nothing in what you have shared which I don’t agree with. But this is not about you or me. It is precisely about God’s will and purposes for all men, but especially concerning those who take the name of the Lord. You obviously are concerned that by drawing attention to the prophetic ministry this will somehow denigrate or detract from the centrality of what’s on your heart, as well as others hearts no doubt. To be more precise you are concerned that if someone comes along and draws the hearts of saints away from something which is of such importance to you, as well as many others also, this will prove harmful. The single issue lies in my persistence in giving some substance to the idea that there is such a thing as a prophetic man, and that these men have a distinctive and authoritative responsibility to the body of Christ.

This thread should give anyone with an ounce of understanding a sense of the danger these men represent. It would be possible to account many instances of the type which are normally pegged as “only of some men” which would readily demonstrate that there are such men as I am asserting, both true and false, who have both a biological inheritance as well as, in some instances a calling of God in their lives. Those who have a biological inheritance only are often unaware of what abides in their natural estate. Some of them however, know very well what they have and exercise their ability to influence other people with considerable consequences. These are sorcerers and diviners and lovers of money. If such men only limited their activities to making money they would be reasonably harmless. They would be just greedy clever men. You have referred in your posts recently to the House of the Red Shield. These are more than simple money makers they are vehicles for Satan himself and they have no idea of it because they are deceived and do not know God at all. They do not know anything of the reality of Satan either. There are some who go much further than just making money and ignorantly serving Satan. They actively practice wickedness arising out of a rejection of God Himself. Men who shake their fist at God and yet who then see an entrance into the flocks of God having rejected salvation. These men are wolves. There are also men who are driven into the same madness which is in Satan and desiring to serve him for what they foolishly believe is power given them, neglect to see that their power resides in themselves and Satan is just using them for his own ends. These either kill themselves or are driven literally mad with fear and terror because they go beyond what they are capable of rationalising. These men are political sorcerers and occultists who labour in secret but have open ambitions. Then there are those who are called of God to the prophetic ministry who are able to withstand all of these men both in the spirit and face to face. Yet the same as these if they walk in the imagination of their own hearts will harm the flocks of God as well. The difference for these men is simply that they can never escape the knowledge of God’s sovereignty and know that if they do not serve God they will be judged unto death by God’s determination. To these men death is a thing to be embraced and even desired.

The reality which you are speaking of Anne is something which is lovely and precious. The thing I am speaking of is diabolical and almost beyond comprehension, because it speaks about wickedness and evil. All that goes on in this world is permitted by God. Not desired by God, but most definitely permitted. In this sense even Satan is just an instrument in the hand of God for His own purposes. The “normal Christian life” you speak off is desirable and necessary precisely because of the wickedness which is in this world and in the hearts of men. The only saints which God has directly purposed to keep from these evil men are the ones who have a heart to please God, because these yield themselves continuously to God and childishly run to Him daily.

That which is being spoken of now concerns this present time, not some prior season! It has to do with this day but more especially the troubles which are coming on the whole world. We should not fear this day or the things to come, but we will only be able to stand as individuals if we have learned to be childish and simple in our attitude towards the Father in heaven. In the end those who are of that mind will be taken out of this world to safety and the confidence of the Lord. Many will be left and they are also God’s concern as well. It is these saints which need to be encouraged and comforted in a day of blackest darkness. For unbelieving men going from wickedness to wickedness that day will seem as a day of light, but to those who cannot receive that day to themselves it will be as a terror. Yet God will not forsake them nor leave them without shepherds to comfort them. They will be comforted and those who will be called to do the comforting are they that are willing and called to remain for that day. No title or conceit will prove sufficient for that calling so it seems to me that pressing for an understanding in others has more to do with encouraging saints in this hour to resist the prophetic man by seeking Christ Himself,. It has nothing to do with desiring to see a special class of men leading the church. It is not about leadership it is a matter of God’s calling and the responsibility it carries. Neither is it about recognition either. It seems to me unlikely that I am the only person who thinks like this. For that reason and realising that such a mind would have to be restrained through weakness I would expect that a number, perhaps even many rejected and wounded men in life will be trying to work this out as well.

For this reason I take exception to the continuous reference to prophetic wannabes and so on. It is hurtful to these men because they are already weakened in life by virtue of the way they have been treated from their childhoods. Those who have been so weakened are already fully aware and believe deeply that they are nothing in themselves. They will come from the filthiness of this life and have nothing to boast in. They will be ashamed of their former life and will ask God how it was that He allowed them to be treated so badly in their childhood. The Father will tell them that He wants them the way they are; weakened by the knowledge of their own sinfulness and the continuous rejection they have known from the beginning. They may well be making mistakes and acting foolishly and even full of pride at times and given to boastings, but if they belong to Christ they will not be best served in Him by degrading their desire to speak for God. It is offensive. They can’t do any harm on the Internet. But one day they may well walk in obedience and be found faithful and trustworthy in the local church, as well as at the end of this age. It is a calling to be worked out. They will have every reason to be more confident of the love of God than many and yet they will be more likely to doubt even the calling of God in their lives, sometimes even despairing of the possibility that they will not see God and will be rejected. The best of these men will be the ones who work out their salvation well enough to be of some real service to the body today. If they do not they will still be kept for that day of tribulation because The Father has purposed it. This is my faith and true, or else I am utterly deceived.

Every believer should seek to lay hold of and be laid hold of by God’s love, which love sent the Lord Jesus Christ to the tree and to death by the shedding of His blood. A love more precious than all of our natural affections even our own children, or how else did Abraham lay Isaac upon the rock and lift his hand so as to take his life in obedience to God? If every believer had such a mind of determination there would cease to be any distinctions among us, because we would see only Christ Himself and know nothing of ourselves at all. But to imagine that this is going to mysteriously appear is wrong. It will come through suffering primarily and even in that regard it will not include all believers. Many will still go through tribulation in order to be perfected unto God because they have rejected suffering and the cross and have preferred peace peace. For anyone reading this thread there is no comfort here, save for Christ Himself. Only a fool would wait until a day of tribulation to be gathered in.

For this reason I take exception to the continuous reference to prophetic wannabes and so on. It is hurtful to these men because they are already weakened in life by virtue of the way they have been treated from their childhoods. Those who have been so weakened are already fully aware and believe deeply that they are nothing in themselves. They will come from the filthiness of this life and have nothing to boast in. They will be ashamed of their former life and will ask God how it was that He allowed them to be treated so badly in their childhood. The Father will tell them that He wants them the way they are; weakened by the knowledge of their own sinfulness and the continuous rejection they have known from the beginning. They may well be making mistakes and acting foolishly and even full of pride at times and given to boastings, but if they belong to Christ they will not be best served in Him by degrading their desire to speak for God. It is offensive. They can’t do any harm on the Internet. But one day they may well walk in obedience and be found faithful and trustworthy in the local church, as well as at the end of this age. It is a calling to be worked out. They will have every reason to be more confident of the love of God than many and yet they will be more likely to doubt even the calling of God in their lives, sometimes even despairing of the possibility that they will not see God and will be rejected. The best of these men will be the ones who work out their salvation well enough to be of some real service to the body today. If they do not they will still be kept for that day of tribulation because The Father has purposed it. This is my faith and true, or else I am utterly deceived.

Dear Brother - you wrote a very long reply to mine and all that mine was saying is that His Sheep need more confidence in His Leading - as He speaks in John. His desire for His Sheep to walk in His Spirit and be protected in that way, in the days to come and be used in the same way that their LORD exampled for them while He was in our form.

Andrew - you probably haven't been around the internet that much to see the 600,000 "prophets" that are not and that are leading lambs to a state of total dependence on themselves and not directing them to HIS WORD and His Spirit to lead them personally.

I won't stop mentioning these "wannabes" because for some reason - The LORD always takes me to witness these circus shows all over the Net - without me trying to find any.
I know there's a reason that He has me to find these websites and the number of them is astronomical.

Now, as far as me saying that, affecting a TRUE Prophet - it should definitely not faze a true one in the least.

Jesus was called a DEVIL, a fatherless son and much more.

The True Prophets in our O.T. were called everything under the sun - rejected and finally KILLED by the very ones they were sent to save.

If a person's Security-in-Christ is dependent on being acknowledged as "a prophet" - I can guarantee you that, that person needs to find their Security in Christ alone and not a calling. They need to LOVE CHRIST EVEN IF GOD gave them No Gifts at All.
Their security MUST Be in HIM and not in their calling.
To put any 'holds' on a calling, is very dangerous to their spiritual health.

A prophet delivers a word, relays anything The LORD may give him/her and lets go of it. They've obeyed Him by delivering what the LORD had laid on them and they can go on to the next thing that The LORD leads them to - without "worrying" if their "word" is accepted or not or worrying that if their "word" isn't accepted - then they are not being "recognised as a prophet".

No, I can't agree with this paragraph above and if anything - a true prophet should expect to be spit on and questioned more than most and receive the bad end of the stick more times than not.
To be thrown in prison on just bread and water - etc. etc. etc. as our O.T. prophets were and looking for "recognition" as a prophet and questioning one's security in Christ if they aren't received as being a prophet by others is not healthy for the prophet nor the people he affects.

"Die to self" applies more to prophets than any others in His Body and why Paul needed that thorn in his flesh.
One Must see themselves as Absolute Equals to ALL in Christ's Body - regardless of their calling or the number of gifts that GOD has used them in.
Having one of the 5 callings of Eph 4 brings even the more responsibility to declare "The Body of Christ" is not a bunch of lone-rangers.
Have you read that book by Nee... "The Body of Christ: A Reality"?
If a prophet would speak of that one topic alone - and show His Saints that GOD intended for His "arms, legs, eyes, ears, hands, and even the less comely parts" to work as ONE - then the prophet has done his job - even without being acknowledged by the Body as being a prophet.

We need to be just Grateful that we're part of His Body at all and not care in the least if we're "seen as Anybody" but just another sheep - according to Eph 4 as well.

Our Security in HIM is not in our callings or gifts - but in the same Security that all of His Body enjoys together, that makes us equal with all that call upon His Name.
Our security comes in no other title but 'redeemed' and from there - we just do whatever He asks each of us, individually to do and work the work that He assigns without any desire for self- recognition.

It would be no different if a Teacher teaches truth and what he taught was not received. Would he yell out - "But I'M A TEACHER. You Must believe me." ?

If HE says tomorrow - "You're no longer needed as an Apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, evangelist." --- we don't fall apart because our anchor is not in the calling but in Christ alone.
I've seen men of each of those 5 callings become More annoited and affective when they no longer felt the need to be recognized as such and just became a servant in His collective Body as equals with all.

I say this for your uplifting and no other reason. For our confidence Must be in that we are a member of and in His Body, whether you or I or any of us operate in any of the ministerial gift(s) or not. Our confidence, security and satisfaction is in HIM Alone.

His Love and Peace, that passes All Understanding.

Brother, I've gone offline after posting the one reply but these parts also stayed in my heart as a barb and wouldn't let go.

It is hurtful to these men because they are already weakened in life by virtue of the way they have been treated from their childhoods. Those who have been so weakened are already fully aware and believe deeply that they are nothing in themselves. They will come from the filthiness of this life and have nothing to boast in. They will be ashamed of their former life and will ask God how it was that He allowed them to be treated so badly in their childhood. The Father will tell them that He wants them the way they are; weakened by the knowledge of their own sinfulness and the continuous rejection they have known from the beginning.

Brother, this is not only true of prophets. Multitudes all over the world [even on this forum] have suffered more greatly than we can ever imagine, with horrendous childhoods and struggles as adults. Most especially in third world nations. We need to have the view that our Christ has - of the Whole world and not just our own little worlds or lives.
Also, do we see all prophets [ie OT prophets] coming from "filthy lives". Many are called and set apart from the time they were 3 yrs old.

they will not be best served in Him by degrading their desire to speak for God. It is offensive.

ANY child of GOD can be used in any of the gifts - and be mocked or scorned while the gift is in operation - but if they have reckoned 'themselves' dead in Christ - they don't take offense - because it's not them that are being derided if what GOD used them for is being mocked but it's HIM/The Word of GOD that is being rejected.
All attacks against anything 'From' Him/Truth - is an attack on Him and not us. To think otherwise is pride & 'self'-consciousness that the thing done or the words said are of "us" and our focus is off of "to His Glory" and onto 'ourselves'.
Jesus said that it's not us that is being attacked or hated but Him and His Truth ... so we should just die to self-focus and see it's Him that's being mocked by whomever - not us.
We cannot elevate this position higher than an Apostle, nor should we elevate them much higher than the teachers, pastors nor evangelists.
If we elevate any one calling above all else in His Body - we've missed what the definition and calling of HIS BODY is.
Any member of HIS BODY can be enabled - "as He wills" - to be used in Any or ALL of the Gifts of 1Corth 12, Romans 12, and even Ephesians 4 'whenever He needs a position filled', without them having that gift as being permenant or as a calling. Though we do know that there are those that are called to fill one of the Eph 4 callings - yet to say that Jesus can't use anyone He chooses to even function in all 5 positions sometime in their lives, is to limit GOD and exalt man/ourselves. I see Paul being used in all 5 of those ministerial callings through his life and the gifts of 1Corth 12 as well. There is no limits with what HE decides to do with 'any' Saint.
HE is the focus - not the gifts nor the callings. HE is the focus of the gifts and callings. Our 'job' as His Body is Only to lift HIM up, Draw ALL of the focus to HIM / The Word of GOD and to all fulfill Ephesians 4:12-16 by desiring and aiding His Body to see that they are ONE as 'His' Body and not lone-rangers seeking for attention but only to hide behind Him as they bring Him to the forefront of all eyes and ears to focus on as well.
We need to decrease dramatically so that we bring Him the Increase.

From my heart with no ill intent whatsoever. Just praying that HE be glorified through His Church - His Body of which He's kept The Head.

thank you and bless you and your family again.

Thank you Anne for your efforts. I hope that anyone else reading this takes a closer look at what I have actually said other wise I have wasted my time.

Bless you sister in Him

Edit Post

That which is being spoken of now concerns this present time, not some prior season! It has to do with this day but more especially the troubles which are coming on the whole world. We should not fear this day or the things to come, but we will only be able to stand as individuals if we have learned to be childish and simple in our attitude towards the Father in heaven. In the end those who are of that mind will be taken out of this world to safety and the confidence of the Lord. Many will be left and they are also God’s concern as well. It is these saints which need to be encouraged and comforted in a day of blackest darkness. For unbelieving men going from wickedness to wickedness that day will seem as a day of light, but to those who cannot receive that day to themselves it will be as a terror. Yet God will not forsake them nor leave them without shepherds to comfort them. They will be comforted and those who will be called to do the comforting are they that are willing and called to remain for that day. No title or conceit will prove sufficient for that calling so it seems to me that pressing for an understanding in others has more to do with encouraging saints in this hour to resist the prophetic man by seeking Christ Himself,. It has nothing to do with desiring to see a special class of men leading the church. It is not about leadership it is a matter of God’s calling and the responsibility it carries. Neither is it about recognition either. It seems to me unlikely that I am the only person who thinks like this. For that reason and realising that such a mind would have to be restrained through weakness I would expect that a number, perhaps even many rejected and wounded men in life will be trying to work this out as well.

For this reason I take exception to the continuous reference to prophetic wannabes and so on. It is hurtful to these men because they are already weakened in life by virtue of the way they have been treated from their childhoods. Those who have been so weakened are already fully aware and believe deeply that they are nothing in themselves. They will come from the filthiness of this life and have nothing to boast in. They will be ashamed of their former life and will ask God how it was that He allowed them to be treated so badly in their childhood. The Father will tell them that He wants them the way they are; weakened by the knowledge of their own sinfulness and the continuous rejection they have known from the beginning. They may well be making mistakes and acting foolishly and even full of pride at times and given to boastings, but if they belong to Christ they will not be best served in Him by degrading their desire to speak for God. It is offensive. They can’t do any harm on the Internet. But one day they may well walk in obedience and be found faithful and trustworthy in the local church, as well as at the end of this age. It is a calling to be worked out

Context is everything

Brother Andrew, I'm sorry that I didn't and don't understand the first paragraph and only posted to what I did understand --- the 2nd paragraph that you've quoted above.

What would you mean by, you've "wasted your time"?

I feel grieved by these words and that I don't understand your first paragraph. But don't feel any wasted time. You're my Brother.

His Best to you, Brother.

Brother Andrew, I'm sorry that I didn't and don't understand the first paragraph and only posted to what I did understand --- the 2nd paragraph that you've quoted above.

What would you mean by, you've "wasted your time"?

I feel grieved by these words and that I don't understand your first paragraph. But don't feel any wasted time. You're my Brother.

His Best to you, Brother. Anne.

Thank you Anne you are a blessing to me and a comfort. I know that I should not have said that I may have "wasted my time". This was selfish and would have served no purpose but for the grace of God. I spent four or five hours and a night’s sleep resisting my impulse to reply to your last two posts. In the end I wrote the only thing I could at that moment. As I posted I knew the flesh was in it as well as a real purpose, but I couldn’t bear to reply with a foolish construction knowing that your posts were well intended and demonstrate a concern which I do understand. This last post of yours had no less an effect on me and I went out to my front door with a cup of tea {sorry I’m English} and began to pray about it. I found myself reflecting on an episode in my life which grieves me beyond words and in it the Lord allowed me to see that even though that season is grievous to me, it was even more grievous to the Lord Himself because it was a denial of the Lord Himself. I wept and remembered that God is just and merciful. When I came back inside Travis’s post was there on my screen. I wept again because the Lord Himself had taken away the foolishness of the flesh and revealed His own hand and purposes. This is the meaning of what you are speaking about Anne, is it not? Many members, one body, one Head, even Christ Jesus our Lord.

I want to help you to understand Brother Andrew's concern for prophetic men. Men that God is equipping, through sufferings, for a time of great darkness, will necessarily be very weak in order that they will not be sufficient in themselves, but only through the grace given to them for that hour. When a very weak vessel that God has given as a prophet hears the word "prophet wannabe" they are not edified. I hope I have discerned the heart of Brother Andrew correctly in this.

Peace in Christ Jesus.

Travis

Thank you Travis you expressed my heart very well. So many saints are scattered and cast down by besetting sin. Some are wounded by false hood and some are even ravaged by wolves. In the end those who do not dress in readiness for the coming of the Lord as a thief in the night, will be found in a day of tribulation. This ought not to be, but it will be because we know that the church is become and is becoming apostate so that many saints will be caught in the net which God Himself has set to bring His children to obedience for one hour and through it perfection. This is the day in which we live not yesterday but today. We need to dress for this day and not for peace peace. There will be no peace. Those who walk in darkness will herald that day of great darkness as though it were the brightness of the sun. Its light which is no light at all will blind them to their own Peril and in it God will harden their hearts because they would not repent and believe, preferring instead the darkness itself. Those who do believe today yet are taking their ease in this world enjoying the light thereof will suddenly find themselves in a day of blackest darkness and will be appalled as they finally realise what they have done in neglecting their salvation. It may not be possible to comprehend what that day will mean for these brethren, but it is certain that in it God Himself will not abandon them nor hand them over to their enemies except that they are able to bear it. The mercy of God in this is beyond comprehension to the natural mind. In the mind of the spirit it is a cause of falling down and worshipping our God and Christ.

Dear Brothers, I do understand what is being said here. It was just this part that I don't understand - because it has to do with "some" being taken from the earth - yet a higher calling for those that are "not" taken.
"This day" as it's called in this section, that I said that I didn't understand - seems to be saying that good Saints will be taken out of this world to safety and then goes on to say that this special breed will be left behind to comfort the weaker ones that are left --- So, this is the part that I couldn't/can't understand - according to the Scriptures - eschatologically.

That which is being spoken of now concerns this present time, not some prior season!

It has to do with this day but more especially the troubles which are coming on the whole world.

We should not fear this day or the things to come, but we will only be able to stand as individuals if we have learned to be childish and simple in our attitude towards the Father in heaven.

*In the end those who are of that mind will be taken out of this world to safety and the confidence of the Lord.

Many will be left and they are also God’s concern as well.

It is these saints which need to be encouraged and comforted in a day of blackest darkness.

For unbelieving men going from wickedness to wickedness that day will seem as a day of light, but to those who cannot receive that day to themselves it will be as a terror. Yet God will not forsake them nor leave them without shepherds to comfort them.

They will be comforted and those who will be called to do the comforting are they that are willing and called to remain for that day.

It's wonderful to have you back, Brother. I had noticed your absense and have been praying and hoping others were too, that GOD would bring or call back, those that have been MIA. Isn't He GOOD!?!

Yes, I thought that was the case, as you posted the verse - but I'm not pre-trib and ALL the "good Saints" would be "raptured", even if I were of that persuasion.

Now, how I 'can' reconcile the quote that I needed the light on - is that I do believe that the majority of us will either die of natural causes because HE takes us Home that way "from the evil to come" OR we will be martyred before His Return.

In 'that' case - then YES I see Andrew's lines would be something that I also saw many yrs ago. In fact I've prayed that way since the mid-80s ... that The LORD either take me Home Soon [boy would I LOVE that] OR that He would make me a literal bridge, for those that are weak to walk over to get to the other side Safe, during these last days and the trib to come.

If this is Andrew's mind - than Yes, I agree with him.

Thank you for giving of yourself & your time to help us!!!

amrkelly wrote:

"The one who lied, lived and the one who spoke the truth died. There is profound wisdom in this passage for anyone who believes he is a prophet."

___________________________________________________________

Saint, remember - Elijah never died. If this is the prophet that you are referring to in your statement. IssacharSon

No brother this is not a reference to Elijah. If it were then it would be a claim that elijah who is presently alive in heaven, is a liar.

It is a reference to the "old man" in the passage quoted who said to the "man of God" in the same passage "I too am a prophet" and was thereby able to turn the "man of god" aside into disobedience. Which cost him his life. Reading this "old man's" words as he and the "man of God" finished their meal shows that he is a prophet. His words to the "man of God" who is also a prophet; (who rebuked a king before the altar, and was established before the altar), were themselves established by witnesses reporting that, "a man" was lying by the side of the road dead, with a donkey standing by and a lion standing by. The "old man" realised this was the "man of God" and so went to bring him back to bury him in his own grave, with the words "Ah my brother". The "old man" lied by saying that he had received an angel who had told him to bring the "man of God" home for a meal, whereas the "man of God" told the truth when asked to turn aside by declaring it was forbidden to turn aside. It was only after the "old man" said "I too am a prophet" that the "man of God" disobeyed and turned aside.

“Therefore speak to them and tell them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Any man of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the Lord will be brought to give him an answer in the matter in view of the multitude of his idols, in order to lay hold of the hearts of the house of Israel who are estranged from Me through all their idols.” ’ “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Repent and turn away from your idols and turn your faces away from all your abominations. “For anyone of the house of Israel or of the immigrants who stay in Israel who separates himself from Me, sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet to inquire of Me for himself, I the Lord will be brought to answer him in My own person. “I will set My face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from among My people. So you will know that I am the Lord. “But if the prophet is prevailed upon to speak a word, it is I, the Lord, who have prevailed upon that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel. “They will bear the punishment of their iniquity; as the iniquity of the inquirer is, so the iniquity of the prophet will be, in order that the house of Israel may no longer stray from Me and no longer defile themselves with all their transgressions. Thus they will be My people, and I shall be their God,” ’ declares the Lord God. Ezekiel 14:4-11

‘Thus says the Lord God, “Woe to the women who sew magic bands on all wrists and make veils for the heads of persons of every stature to hunt down lives! Will you hunt down the lives of My people, but preserve the lives of others for yourselves? “For handfuls of barley and fragments of bread, you have profaned Me to My people to put to death some who should not die and to keep others alive who should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies.” ’ ” Therefore, thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am against your magic bands by which you hunt lives there as birds and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let them go, even those lives whom you hunt as birds. “I will also tear off your veils and deliver My people from your hands, and they will no longer be in your hands to be hunted; and you will know that I am the Lord. “Because you disheartened the righteous with falsehood when I did not cause him grief, but have encouraged the wicked not to turn from his wicked way and preserve his life, therefore, you women will no longer see false visions or practice divination, and I will deliver My people out of your hand. Thus you will know that I am the Lord.” Ezekiel 13:18-23

Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own heart, Hear ye the word of Jehovah: Thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! O Israel, thy prophets have been like foxes in the waste places. Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither built up the wall for the house of Israel, to stand in the battle in the day of Jehovah. They have seen falsehood and lying divination, that say, Jehovah saith; but Jehovah hath not sent them: and they have made men to hope that the word would be confirmed. Have ye not seen a false vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, in that ye say, Jehovah saith; albeit I have not spoken? Therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Because ye have spoken falsehood, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord Jehovah. And my hand shall be against the prophets that see false visions, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the council of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord Jehovah. Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there is no peace; and when one buildeth up a wall, behold, they daub it with untempered mortar: say unto them that daub it with untempered mortar, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it. Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it? Therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my wrath; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in wrath to consume it. So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered mortar, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be uncovered; and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am Jehovah. Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered mortar; and I will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it; to wit, the prophets of Israel that prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and that see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord Jehovah. Ezekiel 13:2-17