cage on the mind

Bubbaguy, time would fail me to show you how false that your whole post is. But I will say this2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;You know what the Bible says, you just decide not to belive it, so I wont take the time to argue with you. Please tell me what you think a Christian is. Thank you.

Praise the Lord for that blessed single reference! Without the Word of God as our anchor in the storm what difference would a Christian be from the world?I can only say that as innocent as it may seem to disregard the Biblical literacy of creation and dinosaurs etc, giving way to one thing will lead to the giving away of another.I had a friend who went to Bible school, soon decided that the Bible was not to be taken literally, changed her views on first three chapters of Genesis, and a year down the road was questioning the blood of Jesus. I now would no longer consider her a Christian, and she needs to be delivered from drug addiction and many other things.My point is that the Bible is our anchor, and remember that Solomon warned us of the little things that destroy: "Catch for us the foxes, the little foxes that ruin the vineyard, our vineyards that are in bloom." Song of Songs 2:15Brother, as hard as it may seem, hold fast to the blessed Word of God, for in a world of non-absolutes, it is wonderfully absolute!In Christ,-Eli

Here is a story Billy Sunday once told:An old infidel said to me once, "But I don't believe in atonement by blood. It doesn't come up to my ideas ofwhat is right."I said, "To perdition with your ideas of what is right. Do you think God is coming down here to consult you withyour great intellect and wonderful brain, and find out what you think is right before he does it? " My, but youmake me sick. You think that because you don't believe it that it isn't true.

Bubbaguy the phrase "itching ears" is what comes to mind when I read your post. You have decided that the way, the TRUTH and the life is not the only truth out there and in order to propel this belief you have turned to attacking those who stand on that faith in scripture alone.You've decided, for whatever reason, that you want to marry science and the Bible. That's your choice, but the scripture speaks plainly to such people and ideas, when we are warned in I Timothy 6:20"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:"Must feel good to be specifically referenced in scripture... :-P

To oversimplyfy the matter, you have either got faith to believe it or you don't.

Bubba the tragic thing that you forget is that though the Bible was written by fallible men, you can't conceive in your mind that it was inspired by an infallible God so that it becomes the Word of God through men. Inspiration by its very nature is something beyond us. If I dictated a letter using a secretary, the words would be mine and his/hers at the same time, but the ideas and principles would be all mine, in other words, my word. The secratary would not get credit for what I had him or her write down. The inspiration of Scripture goes beyond the fallibilities of men to the infallibility of God. It is His word delivered to us through His prophets.2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; (NASB)

John 17:17a - "Thy Word is Truth"

bubbaguy wrote:The tragic part is that these fundamentalists are turning many souls away from God and Jesus because of highly restrictive beliefs about the world and life.You are right in the sense that those with a hypocritical faith cannot please God or be a fountain of living water. Those who don't believe every word of Scripture will always have and promote restrictive beliefs. Many still live under the law and not the Spirit. Many labor and put heavy burdens on others because they themselves have not believed in the power of the New Covenant. Those who live in the power will not turn away the world but they will turn it upside down. The word of God is powerful and living, the ideas of men are destructive and dead.In ChristJeff

You know it seems to me (I may be wrong and if so PLEASE correct me on this)Bubbaguy that you are constantly trying to stir up some mess on one part of the forum or another. attempting to vex our spirits by your foolishness. You know the truth, and yet you try ever so hard to discredit it. In Hebrews says that the bible is sharper than ANY two-edged sword, which cuts and separates joints from marrow, soul and spirit and even discerns the deepest intents of the hearts of men. You heart is not set on God your heart is set on dicrediting Him which is what the enemy is trying to do. The enemy is upon you and using you to spew his venom to poison some of the believers. If you do not realize this and adress it accordingly it will cost you your soul and that is the bottom line. it's up to you Bub

Hello Bub,How big is your God? It seems that your faith in him has limits. With God all things are possible including stuffing a boat full of smelly animals for about seven months.Lets look at it this way, Science says that it is impossible for limbs to grow back for eyes to grow in sockets etc, it falls outside of the realms of human explination. Have faith in the whole bible that it is indeed true. He is the God who created the heavens and the earth, who leads out paleadies, who holds the world in the palm of his hand. He is awesome in majesty, filling the heavens and the earth, he can do anything as easy as he can do anything else. There are no limits to his working power. 1 The LORD said to Job: 2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!" 3 Then Job answered the LORD : 4 "I am unworthy-how can I reply to you? I put my hand over my mouth. 5 I spoke once, but I have no answer- twice, but I will say no more." Job 40:1-51 Then Job replied to the LORD : 2 "I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted. 3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?' Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. Job 42:1-3I pray that may not happen on judgement day, but that you may see him for who he really is now.

Well Bub, you never answered my question but that is ok. It seems to me that you have convinced yourself that you now are standing up for God. You know that what you write is in complete contridiction to what the Bible says. Many have already pointed that out to you. The phrase Jesus used when talking to the woman at the well comes to mind. "you know not what ye worship"(john 4:22) and the phrase in Ecc 5:1 "sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil". I am not going to argue with you anymore you know that your beleif system is not based on the Bible. Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. Jam 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Your wisdom comes from your own self, not from above. Your wisdom is earthly, sensual, and devilish. You said that you seen a vision of yourself in a former life it was earthly, sensual, and devilish. You know what the Bible says. You have a seared conscience. You will stand before God in Judgement for every word, theological belief, rejection of Truth, and relience on self which is in complete opposition to God. You have not put off the old man. You cannot let your expeirence be the grounds of your confidence. Your beleifs are full of confusion with no absolute truth, you only use biblical terms to eaze your conscience and to decieve yourself into beleiving you are reciveing this "wisdom" from God. I dust my feet off and move to a different thread.

Jakeyou ask:Are Jesus' parables true? Of course they are. But are they factual? No. (The Kingdom of God is infinitely more than a man scattering seed.) They are stories told to make a point. This reflects on many of the lessons taught by God through the prophets.All you have done here is define a parable. It is a story intended to convey a point. The disciples initially were very surprised when Jesus began to speak in parables simply because usually He didn't.Metaphors, similies and parables are not difficult to spot. But what you are doing is turning anything into a parable that does not fit with your preconceptions. You have turned almost the whole of Genesis into a parable, but it suits your ends. Your fairy-tale version of Genesis is bizarre; no scientist or bible student would give it any credibility.There are different genres of literature in the Bible; no one disputes this. But to relegate direct revelation to a parable is to devalue truth.Jesus believed in a literal Adam and Eve, a literal Noah, and a literal Jonah. But Jake knows better! Jake knows these are parabolic stories because a spirit tells him so. Your ultimate authority is this spirit who bears witness to your notions. The Bible is a not "a fundamental document that underpins your beliefs". The Scriptures are not a foundation to your views at all; they are mere embelishments, a useful but by now means essential illustration of the truths that you have received first hand by a spirit.There are very few options as to the nature of this spirit; it is either a human arrogance setting itself up against the revelation of God, or it is a demon. There are no other options as far as I can see; it certainly is not that Spirit who came to bring to remembrance the deeds and words of Jesus to his disciples, thereby guaranteeing their accuracy and trustworthiness. It cannot be that Spirit because that would mean He was constantly contradicting Himself.Your issue Jake is in reality a moral one. You want to sit in the seat of judgment. You want to have the final word of approval. You are setting yourself up as God. You will not be able to say you were not warned. You will not be the final judge of this book; this book will be your final judge.'How is it you get the feeling that people want to put God in a box?' No doubt, that spirit told you.

It's funny jake you stake your claim to reality on a field of thought that is in a constant state of flux.Besides, who said that science doesn't back up the Bible's authoritative claims. There's a growing field of science that would disagree with you.

science and religious faith do not need to be enemies. both are from God. both express aspects of God. only when they are taken together does anything make sense.It is not science that I am contending with, but your erroneous views of it. It is your interpretation of biology, geology, physics, contintental drift theory, evolutionary science, microbiology, paleontology that I oppose.

"By insisting on the Bible’s literal, infallible truth these people corrupt the truth of Jesus’ love. They make it inaccessible to thinking people! They ask others to put a cage on their minds."Where did you learn of the "truth of Jesus' love"? Was it not in the Bible? How can you dismiss the Bible truth the same sentance that you talk about the truth of Jesus' love for us? We have to have something to believe in, and I'm a firm believer of standards. We can't be blown to and fro with false doctrines and every new thing that presents itself. It's ludicrious to try to compromise the things of the world with the things of God. If you don't have boundries and standards for what you believe, soon you will believe anything... Post-modernism I believe it's called. Everyone believes what they want and everyone goes to their own personal heaven as long as they stay true to themselves. Sorry, I believe that the Bible is true, infallable, and you can say that I turn away many souls, but the fact is I would rather have a small but PURE IN HEART church rather than a huge church that is spotted, unclean, and believes whatever they want. The Bible is my standard, and it's teachings are my boundries.-Jarrod

What an interesting perspective.One of the main reasons I reject the notion of mixing evolution and scripture is because there was no death in the world until Adam sinned. Think it through for a second...I recall in high school, being taught about our taste buds. Back then it was commonly thought that you had four taste buds on your tongue - the one on the tip of your tongue was for sweets, the one in the middle for sour, the sides were for salty tastes and the back of your tongue for bitter tastes.It was taught in all the schools.Like everyone else, I noticed that the tip of my tongue was not limited to tasting sweets - but that I could taste saltiness, bitterness, or sour things also with the tip of my tongue. I asked my chemistry instructor about it, and he brushed it off saying that my mind was expecting to taste such and such, so I was tasting it thus - or something equally as scientific sounding. He was so certain that the text books were right that he was willing to ignore the plain and obvious truth.It turns out, that the science that was being taught regarding the taste buds came from an improperly translated German study. The German study reported that the tip of the tongue was more sensitive to sweet tastes than the other tastes, but not that it couldn't taste them - likewise with the other three identified taste buds (we know now that there are actually more than 10,000 taste buds - but that isn't the point).For twenty five years North American schools taught that there were four taste buds and that each was only capable of tasting one of four things sweet, sour, salty, or bitter. You will still find people who believe it too - since it was 'common knowledge'.I bring this up by way of introduction. It is a vivid example of how popular opinion can powerfully influence the common perception of truth - even when emperical and experiential evidence point to the contrary.Evolution is no longer the respected theory it once was, and in the more sophisticated sciences, evolution is no longer a viable theory - having demonstrated itself as being an impossible presumption based on the evidence. It may be another 25 years or so before that bleeds into the classroom - yet that is neither here not there. The point isn't to demonstrate how foolish evolution is - science has already done so (you really ought to do some research) - the point is to demonstrate that evolution and scripture are incompatible.In the historical account of Adam and Eve, we see that until Adam sinned, the sentence of death had not been given. God cursed the world and man because of Adam's sin.Even if you take Adam and Eve as an historical allegory (which I might add would be foolish - since Adam is referred to as an historical figure in the NT) you would not be able to reconcile the idea that things were dying and evolving long before the penalty of death was given.Sadly, the only way to combine evolution and the bible - is to set yourself up as worthy and capable of navigating between truth and error - and doing so in absolute subjectivity - that is, whimsically.I am sure you will appreciate how your position stands to the objective observer - that is, a fanciful whim slapped together according to your own personal subjective idea of what truth is, based loosely on the passing fancy we know as evolution, and tied together with hope and good will - never the less, in contradition to the latest scientific observation, in contradiction to reason, and in contradiction to scripture.I appreciate and respect that you believe you have the truth - but I hope you will forgive us for not embracing your hope - since it is plainly built on the sandy ground of self.Dan

Jake,It's not us who are forcing people to choose between the Bible and science, it is you. And it's not science, but YOUR version of science that you make people choose between. The Bible is ok until it comes against your belief, then you set yourself in the position of judge and choose which you'll believe.The Bible has remained the same, science is a constantly changing field of observation, a perfect example of placing your faith on shifting sand. edit: Here is a link to an excellent site to read: Answers In Genesis

Actually they have a very good teaching about a global flood that answers the question better than any evolutionist. Here are a couple of links to some just a few articles:Answers In Genesis 1Answers In Genesis 2And here is a link whith articles that successfully debunk the Lucy skeleton:Lucy the chimp that fooled scientistsThe articles on this link are a little more technical but show that even on an atomic level science follows the authority of the Bible:Radio HaloesAn excellent book to pick up is one written by Jonathon Sarfati called Refuting Compromise. In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Darwin believed in God. So much so that he rejected quantum theory because it made life appear completely random. Said "God does not play dice." (an excellent book is "Finding Darwin's God)JakeI have read it and many another. As regards Darwin rejecting 'quantum theory' I think you have your centuries mixed up. Oscillating super strings were long after Darwin.

"When they discover life on Mars?"Please tell me you are joking. Will we have to take the gospel to them too?

Jake,I'd like to say that I share Ron's sentiment that, as my posts are certainly going to be diametrically opposed to yours, it's my hope that you don't take them as being done in anger.Yes I'm opposed to the way you believe and am concerned for you, but I intend no harm toward you personally. I hope that is the way in which you will take my posts toward you.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

bubbaguy wrote:holding the position that all of the Bible is literally true, or that none of it is, is a dangerous position, and it is dangerous to preach it, as well don't force people to chose between God's love and scienceActually, the most dangerous position to believe or preach from happens, not when you believe all or none, but when you pick and choose what you are going to believe.By rejecting all the scripture - you reject God.By accepting all scripture you accept all that God has to say.By picking and choosing what you are going to believe, you create your own bible, and ultimately, your own, 'home made' God.Dan

explains this. Basically, God gave us "every seed bearing plant for food" sin entered in when we began to kill and eat our fellow creatures. This led to killing each other, as well as many other very bad practices.Oh no, we're not back to this nonsense are we?

I professed Jesus for over 10 years as a hell-bound "I thought I was saved because I believed upon Jesus and said the sinner's prayer" person. From experience, professing Jesus with your mouth alone means absolutely nothing. Zilch. Nada. For me, it bore nothing but rotten fruit.

The vast majority of Christians in the US do not believe in a literal, inerrant bible.That might be debatable on two completely different angles. On the one hand you are certainly right, it seems to be exactly why there is so much confusion. So much stemming from a more or less "selected text's" ideal, that scripture has become a means to our own ends, what we would like to emphasize instead of us submitting to it in it's entirety.The other angle and glad you brought it up, as it is a problem around here;Christians in the US It may be but a guess, but I am wondering if believers in other countries have this problem. Do they even question whether it is authoritative as it states it is? Belaboring the point over and over again is convincing no one here. Just what is it that you think that you will convince us of? A couple hundred posts haven't changed any minds that I have seen here. You know what 'we' are about, what we hold to as Orthodox, what the sermons and messages speak to. Why I pray tell do you come here? That is not with ill intent. Is any of all these vast discussions causing you to reflect on or change your mind about anything?But to stress something else. This forum has believers from all over the world here and I pray that we could all keep this in mind. America is not the only abode of Christianity and in these times so much modern 'teaching' is just bad Theology that I pray the rest of the world never hears it.Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

The vast majority of Christians in the US do not believe in a literal, inerrant bible.I question whether the 'vast majority of Christians' are really 'Christians' at all, and not only in the USA.

"Warning, Warning..."Due to the fact that evolution is true and natural selection is in fact taking place at this moment, here are 5 important steps we must take to live in a evolutionary safe environment:1. Avoid killing all insects and bugs. That ant hill may very well become a future nation and we wouldn't want to jeopradize their becoming. Likewise, do not prevent misquitos from sucking your blood. By killing them you may destroy future innovations.2. Stop eating eggs, for every egg that you remove from the mother is the equivalent of murdering a fellow human being. That chick may become a man, and that man may become a ferdiolama.3. Anyone who wears leather, fur, or suede must be reported to your local police station and a warrant for their arrest will be given. Anyone caught wearing these clothing will be sentenced to 25 years in prison. They may have been wearing the next Abraham Lincoln.4. Anyone owning a pet will be eligible for prejudice charges.5. Tapeworms must be given a chance too. If someone is found with a tapeworm, then they will have to put up with it. Destruction of the tape worm may lead to more drastic consequences. Who are we to tell the worm what is right and what is wrong?And remember, be safe, be smart... the future depends on it. :-) (Disclaimer: This post was just for fun and not directed at anyone)

bubbaguy wrote:RE "the most dangerous position is when you pick and choose what you are going to believe."Everyone has to do this. It is why God gave us brains and freewill. What you are essentially saying is 'don't think for yourself,' think as I tell you to think. Don't reason! I'll do that for you for you, too.Your assertion that the reason we have brains and free will is so that we are free to ignore whatever displeases us in scripture is,... less than convincing. I appreciate the zeal you have for your own opinion, but I notice that other than your own conviction, however genuine and/or sincere, your position is otherwise empty.My position restated another way, is that God is either entirely sovereign, or not sovereign at all. Any 'middle ground' lacks teeth.