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Street pastors/ healing on the streets- gospel less evangelis

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deltadom

Galatians 1:8 KJV
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Romans 1:16 KJV
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

In England we have the street pastors and healing on the streets movement that go out on the street to help people without preaching the gospel to them, it breaks my heart as they are worried about there physical health but not there eternal souls. In our churches here we seem flooded with every other gospel other than one that talks about people going to hell without Christ for eternity. I do believe in feeding the poor and doing social justice but without the gospel it becomes nothing more than oxfam.

We in England are the home to the alpha course a course that has done more to damage evangelism than any other program as it stopped Christians from going on the street and it's false doctrine which does not talk about hell or repentance in the alpha course I know I have been through it.

A church without prayer, evangelism and bible study is no church at all.
I have worked with the homeless and used to give them bibles and food.
If you have known homeless people who have died from alcohol and heroin is not there eternal soul of value. You do not know how much time people have. The healing on the streets and street pastors movement makes me cry because people have temporary suffering but compared to eternal suffering of hell it is nothing.

People tend to use the phrase friendship evangelism in which you are neither there friend because you do not want to tell them where they are going for eternity. It is not evangelism.

The worst quote used is supposedly by st Francis of Assisi when preaching the gospel it is necessary use words, this is not a quote from st Francis.
What we do not realise is that if we do not preach we have mormans, Muslims and other groups who will convert them
We need to rely on the holy spirit as sometimes it is not right to preach.
In some churches we have people who are hungry after the bible and not getting fed or it is so shallow as I have spoken to Muslims and atheists who know the bible better than most Christians.

Church losing its meaning without the gospel, prayer and study of the word
It breaks my heart with so many modern ideas such as street pastors movements.

God help us as I do not have the strength

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sermonindex

Good admonition deltatom.

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sermonindex

In England we have the street pastors and healing on the streets movement that go out on the street to help people without preaching the gospel to them, it breaks my heart as they are worried about there physical health but not there eternal souls.
And your saying something is wrong?

What is wrong with what these people are doing, would to God that everyone was doing this.

Didn't Paul say, 2 Corinthians 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Acts 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Timothy 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Jesus would say, "Let them alone, if they be for us, they certainly are not against us".

Thank God that this group of people are doing this work. God Bless them, and I hope doors will open up from the community to give them food and clothing to help the needy.

FOR THIS IS THE GOSPEL.

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sermonindex

Are these credible healings taking place? Seems like this would authenticate the gospel message. Mormons and other cult embers cannot duplicate the work of the Holy Spirit. They cannot call on miracles to authenticate their message.

Bearmaster.

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wijnand

"Are these credible healings taking place? Seems like this would authenticate the gospel message. Mormons and other cult embers cannot duplicate the work of the Holy Spirit. They cannot call on miracles to authenticate their message."

The bible says that the devil will work incredible miracles through his servants. So that doesn't say a lot!

The problem what this topic is about I see also in my countrie. People will not get saved THROUGH healing, but THROUTH the preaching. This doesn't mean that we shoudn't heal people on the street, but that should only be a 'testifing force', not the foundation. If you preach a wrong gospel but still there is healing, then it's damnable.

So preach the gospel - the right gospel - and if the Spirit of the living God will testify with miracles, be happy!

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sermonindex

@wijnand

Exactly.

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1john316

Matthew 24:24-For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Jesus)

1 John 4:1- Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Mark 16:15-20- 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

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Etuna

Scripture says we should go out and preach the gospel, scripture says we should help the needy and when the people see, they will repent of their ways (also a form of preaching I believe), scripture says signs and wonders will follow and scripture also says false prophets will do the same. False teachings, we can definately rule out unscriptural.

Perhaps we shouldn't be too quick to generalise (or judge even) seeing as we too maybe deceived if we're not careful in our observations. (just my 2cents.)

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sermonindex

Moslens are brought to Jesus Christ through dreams and visions. This is occurring in the 1040 window. In India people are brought to Christ after a healing miracle has taken place. Yes you can argue that false signs and wonders will take place in the end times. And because of that fear you relegate the gospel to nothing more than a polemic belief system. Nothing more than a belief system among many.

Jesus authenticate his ministry by miracles. The New Testament church authenticated the gospel by miracles. Paul wrote to the Corinthians that he did not come to them in eloquent speech but in the power of the Holy Spirit. And that was the miracle working power of the Holy Spirit

The fact is most of us on this forum are from a Western nationalistic mind set. Mainly in North America. We know nothing of the power of God . We certainly know nothing of the miracle working power of God. Our understanding of God is still rooted on reformation doctrine that has no power of the Holy Spirit.

When we speak of signs and wonders we cry false prophets. If you are going to decry every sign and wonder as false. Then you better call every report of Moslems coming to Christ through dreams and visions as false. Then you better call every report of healing out of the third world as false. But Jesus said wisdom is judged by its fruit. The fruit being people are coming to Christ.

Some are saying we need to get back to reformation doctrine. I disagree. We need to get back to Jesus and what he did in the first century. The third world church has the Spirit. We don't.

Posted by Bearmadter.

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sermonindex

I don't think anyone is saying that miracles don't/aren't happening today. But they are saying that they are not, and should not be the litmus test of anyone's ministry.

Jesus said an adulterous generation seeks a sign. Signs were given as the Lord saw fit. Though we see many saying that they did signs and wonders in Jesus's name, yet never having salvation to begin with. etc. etc.

The test of orthodoxy is the purity of the Gospel message as it was delivered. God has, does, and will use miracles if He sees fit to use them, but they're not the standard we judge any ministry by. If one withholds the Gospel and instead presents only good works, it's no different than a doctor withholding treatment from a sick person well within their means to give life to, and instead buying them lunch and sending them on their way, thinking they've done them some sort of favor, because the person was also hungry.

The fruit is not people converting. Jesus never said to make converts. Jesus said make disciples. The fruit would be people being discipled into and persevering in the truths of Christ, as it does them no good to be "saved" into a lie. That is if they're getting saved at all.

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sermonindex

"God has chosen to save men through the foolishness of preaching"

The root word for "preaching" means to open ones mouth and declare publicly.

Yes, signs and wonders shall follow apostolic ministry of them that believe. Our preaching should not only be in word, but in demonstration of the Spirits Power!

HOWEVER, if the Gospel isn't preached (that means the saving message of faith in Jesus Christ through what he did in bearing our sins on the cross), then where is the power in feeding people only? Red Cross does that (& the Red Crescent, by the way). And, if we only perform miraculous signs and wonders and no Gospel is preached, how will men be saved? That's a major set up for "lying signs and wonders" spoken of in scripture (The Todd Bentley, gold dust, angels wings, gold teeth, halo garbage).

I agree, our Gospel should be preached and when God ordains, demonstrated with power TO CONFIRM THE WORD PREACHED, but just feeding the poor and signs/wonders with no Gospel preached? The devil would love to gladly allow those imitations to occur, especially since "there is no other name under heaven by which men must be saved" & "God has ordained to save men through the folloshness of PREACHING (that means declaring the Gospel message of Christ on the cross paying the penalty of our sin, which we can believe and receive justification by faith). Take that away, and you've taken everything.

In love, are we reading our Bibles, or chasing around "wow" ministries?

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sermonindex

I ask again are these authentic miracles taking place? Are people being healed in the name of Jesus Christ? If so then this would be the grace of God in England itself. Because England is in that same nationalistic mind set. The gospel is a polemic belief system that appeals to the intellect but has no power to back it.

I am reminded that Jesus told Phillip in John 14 believe on the evidence of the miracles them selves. This is what is taking place in the third world. Miracles are taking place in the name of Jesus. Because of the miracles people are brought to saving faith and life in Jesus.

Would that God deliver us from our theological arrogance. And we walk in humility before him doing signs and wonders in his name. And testifying of his love and sacrificial death and resurrection for the sinner.

Posted by Bearmaster.

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SkepticGuy

Would that God deliver us from our theological arrogance.

i have observed and learned on this forum that its only 'theological arrogance' when its a theology that we dont agree with. if its theology we like then its correct, but if we disagree with sum1 then they arrogant. i think thats arrogant.

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Solomon101

Deltatom stated

In England we have the street pastors and healing on the streets movement that go out on the street to help people without preaching the gospel to them

Are they praying for them "In Jesus name" and thereby Jesus is getting the credit and honor for it?

You also stated

the alpha course a course that has done more to damage evangelism than any other program as it stopped Christians from going on the street and it's false doctrine which does not talk about hell or repentance in the alpha course I know I have been through it.

I am quiet surprised by that. Week 8 of the Alpha course is specifically about sharing your faith with others. It does encourage people to share with those they already have connections and relationships with. In essence tell your family, friends,coworkers, and acquaintances about Christ. I can't personally see the problem with that. It may not be on the street but it is often the first time many of these have witnessed for Jesus. Telling your friends, family, anf coworkers is often much more difficult and requires more boldness as it actually carries risk of rejection by those we love. If those we do not know on the street reject us there is no personal relationship loss. I encourage everyone to witness about what Jesus has done in their lives to those who actually know them! Then also share with any of the general public that God brings into your path.

Jesus sometimes did the same. Remember the demoniac of the Gadarenes after he was delivered? Jesus said pretty much the same thing in Luke 8 when He stated

The man from whom the demons had gone out begged to go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying, “Return home and tell how much God has done for you.” So the man went away and told all over town how much Jesus had done for him.
Luke 8:38-39 NIV

The guy just went back home and told folks about what God had done in his life.

If people are prayed for in Jesus name and healed.... if folks are sharing what Christ has done in their lives with family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, and acquaintances.....well THANK GOD!

THANK GOD they are out praying for the sick and sharing their faith and taking ground from the enemy. THANK GOD they are not back at the church house with a few folks doing end times Bible studies, bemoaning how bad things are, complaining how no one is serving God, and criticizing the others who are out actually praying for the sick and sharing their faith!

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sermonindex

The greatest miracle has and always will be the saving of a mans soul, the transformation and regeneration of a former sinner into a saint and a child of God. Signs and wonders will follow that. The declaration of the Gospel, of the Truth, has always been and will continue to be the front line of the battle. It does take courage to stand and tell a person that they have an eternal destiny with hell outside of Jesus. It takes as much courage to tell them just how much Jesus loves them despite the fact that they are so far from Him.

There is a balance in this and the balance comes from the Holy Spirit and abides in love. Yet in all of that there is a requirement of boldness and an unashamedness of the name of Jesus. If the name of Jesus is not being lifted up, no matter where in the world, then physical miracles are meaningless. Its the Gospel that is the power of God unto Salvation.

We see from history that Wesley and Whitfield and others were often physically attacked when proclaiming the truth of Jesus publicly. As one who travels home to Scotland every couple of years and knows what is going on locally in this movement and others, it is my opinion that it is powerless. I agree with Delta's assertions, and I do so with sadness. As for verifications of actual miracles from Britain, this verification process is always murky at best.

In the Scriptures we see blind eyes open, we see paralytics stand and walk, we see the dead raised to life. I personally have not heard of nor seen these kind of miracles either happen or authenticated in the West. I believe if they did happen, God would probably keep it hidden from general view because of the circus we may make of it. In the West we would bottle it and sell tickets to the show. We have all seen the circus shows like Benny Hinn and the claims that he and others had made about seeing the dead rise in places like India and so on, only to fall apart when these claims were closely looked at. There has been a deep fascination with signs and wonders for some time now, I personally believe that this is so we will fall foul to the anti-christ and lying signs and wonders when he comes. In these circles, all I hear is talk about signs and wonders. Yet there is no greater wonder than the love of God expressed through Jesus on Calvary and the victory we have because of Calvary. Lets see that march forward every time and whatever follows that we shall praise God for............bro Frank

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sermonindex

Great word brother Frank.

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sermonindex

Agreed that the saving of a man's soul is the greatest miracle that can take place. But is God using the miracle power of the Spirit to bring people to saving faith and life in Jesus Christ? Are we going to call that false? I posted earier Jesus told Phillip, believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

I state again God is bringing Moslems to Christ through dreams and visions. People are coming to Christ through healings. Yet we in our rationalistic western mindset say show me proof. The thing is our arrogance will prevent us from having the faith that God can do miracles. This is why the hucksters and the false prophets are coming forth. Because we are denying the power of the Holy Spirit. We have relegated miracle power to the demonic.

Jesus, the Messiah of Israel went into his home town. He was despised and hated by his own people. Be could not do many miracles in his home because of tbeir lack of faith. Is this not what we are doing to Jesus today? We are despising his power, even excoriating those who believe in miracles. And because of our lack of faith we are not seeing the miracles of God in the American church.

And we wonder why the power of God Is being displayed in the third world and not in the west.

Posted by Bearmaster.

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sermonindex

@Bearmaster

Most respectfully, I'm not sure if you're seeing/understanding the position that's being presented. I don't think anyone is discounting or dismissing the miraculous. They're just not saying that it's any selling point.

The OP was talking about a specific movement in the UK where miracles were the focus, and not the preaching of the Gospel. Not all the other stuff.

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Etuna

Oh sorry Deltatom, I had also missed a point. Only now realising that the original post was in reference to a specific movement that I happen to know nothing about, so *no comment* lol...

XOXO

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AbideinHim

"Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen." (Mark 16:14-20).

Jesus Christ has given the Church a commission to preach the gospel to every creature. All those that believe the good news of Jesus Christ will be saved. The healings, miracles, signs and wonders are not seperated from the preaching of the gospel but should accompany it. The Lord will confirm His Word with accompanying signs when the gospel is preached through the annointing of the Holy Spirit.

We have not seen this done all that much in this nation but it is happening quite frequently in the third world countries.

The Lord rebuked His own disciples when He appeared to them because of their unbelief and hardness of heart. Today, we are faced with the same unbelief and hardness of heart, and just as the Lord could not do many miraculous healings because of the unbelief of the people in his own town, the same applies to us today.

Mike

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sermonindex

HI Bearmaster. My post was not about despising His power or denying that miracles happen today. My post was based upon what I know to be a fascination of this particular movement in Britain. What we know is that the Word of God never changes. We can stand upon the Word of God, its our solid foundation. The Truth of the Gospel never changes. The authenticating work of the Spirit of God is manifested in an actual changed life and miracles follow after that. This has nothing to do with Jesus authenticating Himself through signs and wonders when He presented Himself to the Israelites and they rejected Him thus fulfilling prophecy.

Secondly, signs and wonders, unlike the Word of God can be and will be, according to the Word of God, used to fool people in the end times. So discernment is called for. Now discernment does not equate to despising God's power. I think many of us agree that the Lord's return is near? If that is actually so, then we must expect to see the counterfeit movement increase culminating in the great whore church. Part of this great deception will include lying signs and wonders. So, if a man's faith is based on signs and wonders, he will be particularly vulnerable to deception in those day.

Can I also add that no one did more miracles than Jesus. The crowds loved Him and followed Him everywhere. Yet Jesus, according to John 6, knew why they were following Him. So when He gave them the hard Truth, almost all of His " followers," fell away. Again in John 8 we see " believers," ultimately reject Jesus and even try and kill Him because of the Truth that He spoke to them. Brother, I would like you to read this passage of Scripture and see what the Lord says about this situation...........

Joh 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
Joh 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
Joh 2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

Now brother, the faith that comes from seeing miracles is not the saving faith of Jesus. It can be, some may be genuinly saved after experiencing or witnessing a miracle but I want you to compare that with the speech that Peter gave after Pentecost. 3000 were saved and Jesus did commit Himself to them. Where were all the crowds who wooed Jesus because of His miracles when He was being crucified? What about the crowd that welcomed Him in and lauded Him as King as He rode into the city on a donkey? What about the man who was healed at the pool but then informed on Jesus to the authorities? What about the lepers who were healed and only one came back to praise Jesus? No brother, the emphasis, and I think this is what this post is all about, the emphasis must be on Jesus Himself and the Gospel truth. No matter what one puts before Jesus, good or bad, unless Jesus Himself has the pre-emminance in everything then we are out of whack. The horse must go before the cart, the signs will follow the Scriptures say. This is simply the word of God that never changes.

You can imagine what it is going to look like when the Anti-Christ comes and is confirmed by the false prophet and all of that is confirmed with great signs and wonders and miracles. So my caution for discernment is not in any way a lack of faith or a despising of God's power, it is simply a caution for discernment. I love you bro.........bro Frank

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richrock

In response to the OP, I had already done some looking around on the whole idea of Street Pastors, and was put off by what I saw, and heard from brothers and sisters who have gone through the training program...

I dug up this on my travels to find something of a statement of faith (there is none on their main website):

"Street Pastors go out on Friday and Saturday nights. Teams of between four and six Street Pastors are out on the streets between 10pm and 2am on a Friday and 8pm to midnight on a Saturday visiting those areas where we know people will be. .

Once out on the street, Street Pastors interact with whoever they meet – exchanging a friendly word or getting into a deeper conversation. The Street Pastor is there to get to know people in the community and to build relationships in order to find out their needs and what can be done to help them.

Someone may want prayer because they are trapped in prostitution.

Someone may be given help to get home safely.

A person who is addicted to alcohol or drugs may be set on the road to recovery by a referral to Crossroads.

A person who is angry and aggressive may be calmed down by a combination of gentle talking through and resolving of their problems and silently offered prayer.

A homeless person may be given some food and a drink and we are grateful to Subway for the support that they give us with this.

The role of a Street Pastor is not about preaching, but is one of caring, listening and helping—working in an unconditional way sharing God’s love."

I'll be posting a general response on the rest of the OP after.

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richrock

We in England are the home to the alpha course a course that has done more to damage evangelism than any other program as it stopped Christians from going on the street and it's false doctrine which does not talk about hell or repentance in the alpha course I know I have been through it.

There's problems with Alpha - it does not show a complete gospel. It's true they do not teach true biblical repentance, nor is it taught that we are inherently evil (Psa 51:5, Eph 2:3, Isa 48:8, Psa 58:3, Gen 8:21, John 3:6, Rom 7:18).

My other personal issues concern the emphasis on the gifts, even considering the fact that the Holy Spirit is given a weekend, yet the gospel is touched on in chapter three.

It's great to hear people working with homeless, giving food, bibles, etc, is very encouraging.

The worst quote used is supposedly by st Francis of Assisi when preaching the gospel it is necessary use words, this is not a quote from st Francis.

I have heard this preached so many times, so much so that I believed it. Now I don't, and personally I am trying to re-educate myself, studying the word, looking at the examples of those who are doing God's will in these areas. Sadly, I have to resort to a street-preaching series on Youtube.

We need to rely on the holy spirit as sometimes it is not right to preach.

I'm confused, aren't we to preach in season and out of season? I would love to hear what you mean in context...

In some churches we have people who are hungry after the bible and not getting fed or it is so shallow as I have spoken to Muslims and atheists who know the bible better than most Christians.

Church losing its meaning without the gospel, prayer and study of the word
It breaks my heart with so many modern ideas such as street pastors movements.

God help us as I do not have the strength

Straight up! I will pray for your strength, deltadom. There is certainly a passion there for the gospel. We are not fed, echoing the words of Tozer (I think) - 'The sheep look up, and are not fed.' and yet, as Spurgeon would say on this topic, that the emphasis is on the entertainment of the goats.

In many ways I can echo the issues in the UK, I was going to join street pastors - what people told me they do, although commendable, did not get the gospel out there, even in tract form.

A great admonition, and surely one the church in the UK needs to hear.

D
deltadom

There is so much I have to respond to as for doctrine it is important as much as the difference between a Jehovah's witness and a Christian,
What breaks my heart about these two movements specifically it is deceptive and people are specifically prohibited from speaking about there faith, some do.
What I find is people do not do is question the absolute obvious the courses and general meetings that happen against scripture,
One thing that I want to make obviously clear I believe in miracles and good works but simply if Christ does not get the glory or if you, but I do not believe in socialism or a social gospel as we become no better than mormans or most of the world who do good works to get into heaven or think they are. Why do churches spend time and money helping people on the street if they die in a car crash next day and end up in torment for the rest of eternity. It is like putting a band aid or plaster on cancer.

1 cor 13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned , and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4 Charity suffereth long , and is kind ; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself , is not puffed up , 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly , seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked , thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth : but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail ; whether there be tongues, they shall cease ; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away . 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come , then that which is in part shall be done away . 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly ; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known . 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Most people I speak to on when I am preaching the gospel have not done a biblical study on love nor have seen the quotes Jesus states about hell
As love rejoices in the truth and does not rejoice in iniquity, thinketh no evil.
These movements only offer temporary hope not everlasting hope.

Revelation 20:15 KJV
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Mark 9:43 KJV
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off : it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:44 KJV
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched .
Mark 9:45 KJV
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off : it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:46 KJV
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched .
Mark 9:48 KJV
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched .

I am not doing a comprehensive study of how many times Jesus spoke about hell, these movements lack real love because real love would tell them the truth.
I know I am a sinner and a greater mess than most of you.
To me it breaks my heart with this movement. As it lacks the power of the gospel and the offence


Romans 1:16 KJV
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 15:19 KJV
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Romans 16:25 KJV
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began ,
1 Corinthians 9:12 KJV
If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:18 KJV
What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel , I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
/>
1 Thessalonians 1:5 KJV
For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
2 Timothy 1:8 KJV
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;


2 Corinthians 2:16 KJV
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

As Christians we need Jesus and we have a powerless message without the gospel and one that is not grounded in biblical love
My heartache is that our churches are brimming full of program's that our not wrong in themselves but not scriptural.
It is wood, hay and stubble which will be burnt by gods consuming fire, works that our of no heavenly value.
One of my personal prayers as c s Lewis stated help me know the real Jesus and the real me as we are going to meet him and he is real. We better not have an imaginary thing we have made up from our imaginations but a biblical Jesus based in time and space and who lives now. The Jesus of biblical texts is who we worship and the thing he said about knowing are selves as the scriptures are a mirror on our soul that shows us what we are truly like as it is us and Jesus standing on judgement day.
This is what I hate about these movements a false facade and many others that are masked in Christian love but lack the love of scripture and more likely from hell.
As Denny Kensington put it the greatest deception is self deception, deliver us from that. As I know we all can be deceived in areas that our obvious and it is only the grace and truth of the lord Jesus that opens our eyes.
From a wretched sinner who needs a greater saviour

D
deltadom

Richrock I have serious problems with alpha as said I am one who has gone through it, to me the churches in the uk are full of so called movements like this or fads that do not hold up to any type of scriptural scrutiny and taken for granted. It is also safe to say most books that people read or handed out are not questioned either

S
sermonindex

The bible says that the devil will work incredible miracles....
This is misinformation. The devil is a liar and the only miracles that he can muster up is through "lying wonders".

Satan cannot heal the sick, he cannot heal a broken heart, he cannot because there is no life in him. He works behind religion, that is his disguise. He gives the illusion that God is bringing people together without the cross.

He will never produce a miracle that brings life or produces life, never.

In order for him to do that he would need the Holy Ghost.

S
sermonindex

What I find is people do not do is question the absolute obvious the courses and general meetings that happen against scripture,
I take it that you read hearts brother?

Only God knows who is searching and asking questions. We just don't know what is going on in peoples minds and what they are praying at their bedside.

Paul met up with a company of men while travelling in Asia Minor and he found out through their conversation that these types of believers were not followers of Christ but followers of Johns baptism. They had some sort of an understanding of the scriptures but they were desperately lacking in knowledge. Paul spoke to them of the One that John's ministry was all about, preparing the way of the Lord was his mission. Once they understood that it was Jesus Christ they were to believe in, they immediately dropped John and opted for Jesus and were baptized and received the Holy Ghost.

The way people come in sometimes can be a winding path until they come into contact with power and something ignites with themselves.

People that search, whether it's through the Alpha program or some other source, will find themselves in all kinds of different situations. When we are looking for something we'll look everywhere, not just the "safe" places that we have come to know. Most people don't know any better that is why they take these courses, they are just following everyone else because the knowledge that we have is not readily available to them, otherwise, they would hear what we'd have to say and therefore bypassing something that may or may not do them any good.

Even a little truth is better than nothing. And it's surprising to hear testimonies from people that started off with just hearing a verse of scriptures in a dead Church.

D
deltadom

2 Thessalonians 2:9 KJV
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

If you study the cults and other things, the devil can produce miracles in scripture. Walter Martin says other groups have miracles


Revelation 13:13 KJV
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

The bible states that the Antichrist will bring fire down from heaven. I believe in miracles but the greatest is a sinner turning to a saviour .
2 Timothy 3:8 KJV
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
In the scriptures jannee and jambres perform miracles in the exodus copying miracles Moses did.

There are examples in other religions, but our faith is based in the fact of the resurection.
Miracles are used to lead people to Jesus not like the prosperity preachers to themselves and profit, the biblical miracles give glory to Jesus and to his word. There is a vast chasm between demonic miracles and Christian miracles.

There are so many in the church who are chasing after miracles rather than Christ and the gospel. Even I am guilty. We live in an age of flashing lights, attention deficit disorder. With the healing on the streets movement the gospel should be Primary as his miracle of ressurection on the cross.

It seems we are drawn to anything in christiandom other than the power of gods word

S
sermonindex

There are so many in the church who are chasing after miracles rather than Christ and the gospel
Nothing has changed since the time of Christ, they did it then, they are doing it today and why not?

I mean wouldn't you chase after a minstry who is doing miracles when we simply don't see anything like that today? I would! But my motives are different. I KNOW in whom I have believed, but at the same time, I would love to see a something spectacularly miraculous. I even would love to see someone get saved in a spectacular way. Everything seems to be hush hush. Even in my city, there are no miracles, nothing happens here. I see more people leaving Churches and finding home support groups instead and I am for all that, but it still a shame just the same.

D
deltadom

I mean wouldn't you chase after a minstry who is doing miracles when we simply don't see anything like that today? I would! But my motives are different. I KNOW in whom I have believed, but at the same time, I would love to see a something spectacularly miraculous. I even would love to see someone get saved in a spectacular way. Everything seems to be hush hush. Even in my city, there are no miracles, nothing happens here. I see more people leaving Churches and finding home support groups instead and I am for all that, but it still a shame just the same.

People are looking everywhere but there prayer closet, one scholar recently documented miracles that are credible. What I mean is that everyone wants god to work in miracles yet they forget most men of the past spent time with god and did not have the distractions

One thing I disagree is on is that many people can find Truth through other sources as Jesus says I am the way, the truth and the life

John 4:24 KJV
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 14:17 KJV
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive , because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:26 KJV
But when the Comforter is come , whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
/>
John 16:13 KJV
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come , he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear , that shall he speak : and he will shew you things to come .
Ephesians 1:13 KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed , ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 5:9 KJV
(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
2 Thessalonians 2:13 KJV
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Peter 1:22 KJV
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

The church is called the pillar of truth, holy spirit is the spirit of truth, Jesus is the truth, it says that the truth shall set you free

What I mean is that people can come to Christ in dead cults and dead churches that preach half truths but always the other half is a lie.
Sometimes it is so dangerous as we have heard people say that they find truths other than in scripture. Then we lose them as the rabbi is better or some heretical teacher.
God can use every possible method to reach people this does not verify the cult such as Mormonism they are in as they have to turn to Jesus and the truth

S
sermonindex

Heh. 2:4
God also testified to it by signs, wonders, and and various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his willI


Gal. 3:3
ODoes God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law or because you believe what you heard.

Rom. 15:18-19
I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done----by the power of signs and miracles through the power of the Spirit.

Acts 4:30
Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.


The above verses and others speak of the reality of miracles. If one is going to deny the reality of miracles then rip up your New Testament. Forum I hate to break it to you. Paul did miracles in his ministry. This is his testimony unless we are going to call him a liar.

I ask can anyone set forth a case that miracles have ceased? Can anyone say that the miracles taking place in the third world are false? Moslems who come to Christ through dreams and visions. Are their conversions false? People in India who are healed and come to Christ. Are their conversions false?

What I am hearing is that any miracle that is don in the name of Jesus is false. Because we cannot rationalize in our paradyne. Any talk of God's power is relegated to the demonic or false prophet. And frankly that may be right for believers in the west. Mainly because the western Christians have rationalized the Holy Spirit right out if the window.

Why do we see the power of God moving in the third world. Simply like the first century Christians, they believed. Why do we not see God's power on the western church. Mainly because we do not believe. We believe correct doctrine but have no power. And somewhere it says that the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.

Posted by Bearmaster.


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sermonindex

I must ask if you do not believe in miracles. Then why bother to pray. Any answer to prayer is a miracle in itself. Just wondering.

Bearmaster.

S
sermonindex

delete, double post

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sermonindex

Brother Bearmaster, did I miss something? Did someone say they did not believe in miracles?...........bro Frank

S
sermonindex

This is misinformation. The devil is a liar and the only miracles that he can muster up is through "lying wonders".

Satan cannot heal the sick

I'm sorry, but your assertion is misinformation. I'm not sure where you're getting your info from, but there are plenty of testimonies of the demonic bringing physical healing into peoples lives. Read or listen to the testimony of Johanna Michaelsen sometime. She was heavily involved in this before her salvation. "Lying signs and wonders" does not refer to them not happening, they're lying because they do not originate from the Truth or testify to Him, just like the works of Jannes and Jambres. Their source is a lie (just like their father) and a deception, and they lead people astray. We're going to see this more in the end days than ever before. Jesus said to watch out for them.

Nothing has changed since the time of Christ, they did it then, they are doing it today and why not?

I mean wouldn't you chase after a minstry who is doing miracles when we simply don't see anything like that today? I would!

That's sad news to hear. Here's what Jesus said about that;

Matthew 16:4

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign."

This word for "sign" in Greek means an attesting miracle, which Christ also says in Matthew 24 that the false prophets will do (same word).

S
sermonindex

@Bearmaster

Brother, again, who here is saying that they don't believe in miracles? Can you direct us to a quote from this thread of someone saying they deny the miraculous happening still today?

S
sermonindex


Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

S
SteveHale

This whole discussion reminds me of John going to Jesus and saying that he saw someone driving out demons in Jesus' name and he told him to stop it. But Jesus said " Do not stop him"( Mark 9:39 )" No one who does a miricle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly be rewarded."

H
HeartSong

I will pray that the LORD give you strength.

S
sermonindex

Brother Steve, you maybe should give some thought that there are Brothers that research things before they post them and are not against healings - as long as it leads to the main purpose of people's salvation - as was the case in The Word.

There are going to increasingly be times when discernment and a pause will be needed to find out what we're dealing with.

Deception will be more subtle and rampant in the last days and Jesus through His Apostles warned us to test all things .. lest we be deceived.

Maybe you could bring up some research on these groups that proves your post.

Watchman Nee even taught to wait on GOD to prove things out.
I know some of these Brothers and they have a long history of having done their homework before they'll post anything contrary.

Peace.

E
elected

1. Workers of iniquity

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?'

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Matthew 7:22,23

Many will go to hell because they did not know Jesus as their personal Lord & Savior, even though they performed miracles, their heart was wicked and their life ungodly.

Its clear from this Scripture that someone in the name of Christ can perform and do all the things mentioned above and still be without the Spirit of holiness.


2. Supernatural gifts without agape love = nothing

"If I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." 1Corinthians 13:2

Prophesying or performing miracles its not a proof that you are a christian. Its the fruit of the Spirit that makes us like Christ in character and godly in life. God is love.

3. Holiness makes us fit for heaven

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

Its personal holiness not power that really distinguishes us from pseudo-christians.


These verses from the Scriptures simply prove the possibility of exercising extraordirary charismata
(gifts)and still be found without the grace, love and holiness of Christ in out hearts.


S
sermonindex

And we wonder why the power of God Is being displayed in the third world and not in the west.

because we are too sleek and fat, because we can flick a switch and get electricity on demand, because we can take a thin plastic card, and swipe it thru a machine and walk away with rich food, that 85% (est) of the worlds population can only dream about.

because....we have the time and ease in Zion to fuss and argue on an internet forum.

(and dont think beloved, i'm cutting myself any slack, as i am more guilty than all)

but, patience, all this 'luxury' is going away in the 'west'.

as the LORD says,

"If you have raced with men on foot, and they have wearied you,
how will you compete with horses?
And if in a safe land you are so trusting,
what will you do in the thicket of the Jordan?"

Jeremiah 12:6 (ESV)

this is not DIRECTED at you specifically Bear, but you do you know what i find so wearisome?

all this contention on an internet platform...anonymous and faceless. It's easy to thunder about on ANY internet discussion forum. and again i say, i have been more guilty than most, a sin that craters me in soul and heart.

if we were all face to face, like friends, would we address each other as such?...reason with each other as such?

One expects such dialogue on secular platforms....have any of you seen it? the comments after news articles?....poison keyboards, terrible...the pornography of the poisoned mind and dark heart.

we who have tasted of the Word of the LORD, should be different, peculiar, "look how they love one another".

again, i say Bear, my post here was not directed at you...or anyone in particular.....no. Its just that we have this marvelous resource at our disposal, and it seems we spend so much unprofitable time in contention, rather than encouraging one another...or loving one another, or in secret prayer.

maybe we would do well, to PRETEND, the saint we address is sitting next to us, because this forum is GLOBAL...this forum IS a "witness" and we should not despise it, but rather show the world, we are a 'look how they love one another' 'peculiar' people.

thats my prayer. neil

S
sermonindex

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?'

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Matthew 7:22,23

Many will go to hell because they did not know Jesus as their personal Lord & Savior, even though they performed miracles, their heart was wicked and their life ungodly.

Its clear from this Scripture that someone in the name of Christ can perform and do all the things mentioned above and still be without the Spirit of holiness.

There's something particularly interesting I always find about this passage. For a long time I held onto the same interpretation, with the ungodly performing miracles in His name, simply because of the power of His name and what it represents, despite the fact that the ones employing its use are unsaved. And in one sense, I still can see that interpretation/understanding as holding true to a degree.

There is something else to consider however. Note how Jesus never acknowledges/affirms their claims that He was the source of the miracles. He just tells them that He never knew them. I find that interesting. Especially considering the context and content of the verses directly before that were about false prophets. And even more interesting considering what Jesus said about false prophets later on in Matthew 24, and by what means they'd try to deceive the elect. I don't think the elect could be deceived by a lying sign and wonder done in anyone else's name than Jesus's. Do you?

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sermonindex

not meaning to derail the thread, i do believe i must beg your forgiveness, because i THINK our last discourse was one of discord. please forgive me for any intemperate or sinful words, i am sorry.

also i pray for you now in Japan, these are very difficult times there, and i ask Jesus to lay His Hand over your heart and soul, may you bring forth much fruit, neil

S
sermonindex

It's cool, man. I try not to keep tabs (to the best of my ability :P), so you really have nothing to repent for (as I don't think that personally you and I have butted heads either). Your prayers means more to me than I can relate in text, however. Thank you.

-Grant

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sermonindex

my brother, for your love and grace. i keep tabs, i KNOW my sins ALL too well......and sin unconfessed, unrepented for....remains...what it is...sin, a bad thing...and i believe that we must be honest and transparent with each other and MOST IMPORTANTLY before God, fearless and humble in confessing to one another, shining a brilliant light on the darkness of our own nature in the flesh, said Light, Jesus, and God the Holy Ghost.

so you and i made news in Heaven this morning...well morning here in the Driftless region of Wisconsin.

Grant, i know Japan, i posit it might be easier to preach the Gospel in Indonesia, or Nigeria, than Japan.

so, i will continue to pray for the Church in Japan, and you, my dear Grant, neil

S
sermonindex

Grant, i know Japan, i posit it might be easier to preach the Gospel in Indonesia, or Nigeria, than Japan.

Tell me about it! It's the rockiest soil I've seen in my life. But there are cracks where the Seed can fall and take root. Your prayers are most appreciated.

E
elected

Quote from EverstoSama:

[b]There is something else to consider however. Note how Jesus never acknowledges/affirms their claims that He was the source of the miracles. He just tells them that He never knew them. I find that interesting. Especially considering the context and content of the verses directly before that were about false prophets. And even more interesting considering what Jesus said about false prophets later on in Matthew 24, and by what means they'd try to deceive the elect. I don't think the elect could be deceived by a lying sign and wonder done in anyone else's name than Jesus's. Do you?[b/]


Sorry for this late reply. What we know from this passage (Matthew 7:21-23) is that Jesus did not deny to this group of professing christians the reality of their miracles, healings, or casting out of demons. But he will judge them for being workers of iniquity and for being lawless, fruitless and ungodly in their life.

A good tree will bear good fruit and a bad tree will bear bad fruit, simple as that. They were unfaithful to God, disobeyed his greatest commandments of loving God with all their heart mind and soul and loving their neighbors as themselves. Jesus was not Lord of their lives and they did not walk in the light of God as he is in the light or live in a personal relationship with their Savior that resulted in a holy conversation and life.

They either did not have or did not persevere in the grace of God or endure to the end. I believe that some of those apostates from Hebrews 6 and 10 will be found in this group of people who were gifted with supernatural gifts, as we know from scriptures the gifts of God are without repentance.

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” —Matthew 7:21-23

These verses from the gosple of Matthew are very prophetic, especially for the end times. When there's gonna be a great falling away and apostasy. The elect of God who are conforming to the immage of Christ and living or walking in the Spirit, are the ones who God grants the gift of final perseverance. Those who backslide and turn away from Christ, denying him and his work on the cross and who never repent of their sins are the ones who are going to the broadway that leads to death and eternal seperation from God.

Jesus, Apostles and early church Fathers testify that a
true christian is someone who repents of his sins (and turns away from them), believes Jesus as his Lord and Savior, picks up his cross, denies himself to follow his Lord and to live a life wholly consecrated to Him and acceptable to God. To the early christians being a christian and a disciple of Christ meant the same thing.

There is a great contrast between the profesing christians and the faithful christians. The former may show a form of godliness but deny its power, may know and speak the right doctrines and be orthodox but void of experimental (heart) knowledge of God. They may be charismatic and have soulish power to sway the audiences and perform miracles but their heart is empty of the sanctifying grace of God or without the true anointing of the Spirit.

In 1 Kings 19 : 12 & 13 the Lord was not in the great and strong wind, not in the earthquake, or in the fire but in a still small voice. It is those who hear and obey the voice of the Spirit and the Word of God who are truly christians, not those who perform signs and wonders but walk in the flesh.

11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:

12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice


- edited


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sermonindex


Good points, elected, regarding the great falling away or apostasy.

Also see what EverestoSama is saying by that one word "Never" - ουδεποτε G3763

Strong's - From G3761 [not] and G4218 [ever]; not even at any time, that is, never at all: - neither at any time, never, nothing at any time.


He, in His omniscient foreknowledge, knew before the foundation of the earth, those that would be "faithful unto the end".


2Ti 2:19-21 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His.
And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


I know that we all would love to be able to perform the miracles of transforming tares into wheat and goats into sheep -- do you think it's possible? I'd like to think so.

Or to share some oil with those that didn't store up while they could.

And pray that we all, myself included, [Luke 21:36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape [flee out of] all these things that shall come to pass,
*and to stand before the Son of man.

Amen, to you both for your posts.

S
scotsbaker

deltadom makes the assumption that everyone who does Healing On The Streets in the UK neither knows the true gospel nor preaches it.

I go out regularly doing Healing On The Streets and always will try to give the gospel to whoever will listen.

See my website whatisthegospeldotorgdotuk which clearly illustrates the biblical gospel preached by both Peter and Paul in the New Testament.

N
notlongnow

I have also heard recently about a church in my town that goes to the Psychic/New Age Fair, sets up a booth and offers 'prayer for healing'. I do not know the exact wording they use or how exactly it is presented, but am I the only one who finds this disturbing. I believe after the 'prayer' is given they then give the option to recite the 'sinners prayer'.

There is something extremely off and dangerous about this approach. At least that is what I felt when I heard they were doing this. There is some kind of unholy mixing going on. Instead of being bold and outright with the gospel, they are pretending to be just another booth offering some kind of a supernatural experience.

Does anybody else find this strange?

U
used4him

Hi scotsbaker,

I have read some of the articles on your website, and the "what not to do" in evangelism struck a cord in me. You say we should not use the sinners prayer, also you say not to use phrases like "ask Jesus into your heart". Do you know how many millions of people have been saved by saying the sinners prayer? I am one of them,and of all those people decades later, many of them are still walking with Christ. Also how many people who evangelize successfully use the forbidden phrases you mentioned? John 1:12 says "as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God." So they RECEIVED him, and this is not a passive thing, on the sinners part. This is active, an act of faith. We are not to be passive as you suggest. We must use our will. I did enjoy the videos part 1 and 2 on your site, which talked about how to evangelize. That man told us to use the sinners prayer, and also mentioned you could say "ask Jesus to come into your heart". Obviously, you did not make these videos, because they contradict what you wrote. How do you recommend that a person become born again?

D
deltadom

----------------------------------------------------------
deltadom makes the assumption that everyone who does Healing On The Streets in the UK neither knows the true gospel nor preaches it.

I go out regularly doing Healing On The Streets and always will try to give the gospel to whoever will listen.

See my website whatisthegospeldotorgdotuk which clearly illustrates the biblical gospel preached by both Peter and Paul in the New Testament.
-------------------------------------------------------

What I go on is there writings, literature and the people that I have met


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