Southern Decadence - Large gay event in N.O. and ISAAC are scheduled for the same day.

Hurricane Isaac

http://www.weather.com/weather/hurricanecentral/tracker/2012/isaac

Wednesday before Labor Day is around the time that ISAAC should be hitting the area.

Here's what the Southern Decadence website says about itself (you don't want to wade through looking at the site):

"Southern Decadence started forty-one years ago as a simple going-away party. As a top gay Labor Day Weekend destination, it has evolved into one of our world's major annual events. One of the largest annual celebrations and festivals in New Orleans, it has become known as the "Gay Mardi Gras." People begin to arrive on the Wednesday before Labor Day, and generally don't even think about stopping or going home until the following Tuesday. With over 120,000 gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender participants, and an economic impact estimated to be in excess of $125 million, the city has recognized the festival's importance with an Official Proclamation to welcome the event."

This is happening exactly 7 years (to the day) after KATRINA hit N.O.

The sad thing is, that when a person/persons don't believe in Christ, they will just write it off as a normal happening. I would find it hard to believe that any of those folks would even entertain the thought it was from God, at least not verbally. For the record, I am not sure it's from God either,but even if it's not, the hurricane has perfect timing for ruining this event.

Hurricane Gustav also hit Louisiana and cancelled various events
on the Southern Decadence agenda in 2008.

I don't know of a greater stronghold than the bondage of homosexuality
because it is so engrained in the personality of those that have believed
that God made them this way.

Voodoo is also a stronghold in the New Orleans area.

There are still Apostolic, prophetic, and intercessory ministries in this city
that are fighting the good fight of faith.

Mike

The Spirit of God within me has been crying out to the Father to work in this hurricane to make it clear to this rebellious society that God is unmistakably dealing with the issue of the sin that is being flaunted rebelliously "in His face". I've been begging God to direct men toward repentance in the midst of this situation.

I just went to lunch. I got in the car. I happened to have the radio on when I cranked the car (I don't normally). The radio station was BBN, and it was time for Bible reading. This is what I was hearing when I cranked the car:

" Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it. " Jer 30:23-24

Brethren, God is about to do a work in His great mercy to show His righteous judgments upon wickedness! It is His mercy that brings judgment upon wickedness during this time on earth. When there is no mercy left, men go on undisturbed in their wickedness and are surprised with all of God's fury at the judgment day. THANK GOD for manifesting such mercy with these hurricanes.

its a storm. they happen. it isnt even a big storm as far as hurricanes go. tsumani hit japan that was 100 times more devastating than this hurricane will be. was God pouring out his anger and punishment on the people of japan? blizzards hit the northeast and midwest. is that God punishing them? i never hear christians talking about those storms. think about this; christians said that katrina was God's punishment on new orleans. nothing has changed in new orleans, in fact its worse as far as morals go. so God is going to punish them again with a weaker hurricane that is just barely above tropical storm level? that is nonsensical. its hurricane season and hurricanes happen during hurricane season. and sometimes they hit near new orleans. it happens. new york city is a decadent city but i dont ever hear christians calling down the wrath of God on new york when there is a blizzard.

its a very weak hurricane during hurricane season. there is nothing miraclulous about that. here is what IS miraculous that you all are missing: christians have been praying for drought relief all up the mississippi valley and into the midwest. your prayers are answered! they are going to get rain!

u have to look at the positive side of things once in a while. not everything is doom and gloom and judgment of God.

Lordoitagain..
Brethren, God is about to do a work in His great mercy to show His righteous judgments upon wickedness! It is His mercy that brings judgment upon wickedness during this time on earth. When there is no mercy left, men go on undisturbed in their wickedness and are surprised with all of God's fury at the judgment day. THANK GOD for manifesting such mercy with these hurricanes.

We are all wicked, we are all sinners, no closet is totally clean, so remember this when the hurricane is knocking on your door. It's just God doing a work in His great mercy to show His righteous judgments upon wickedness!

the only reason a big deal is being made about this tropical storm/hurricane in the media is becuz the republican national convention is happening at the same time. its a great diversion and they can run film loops of katrina over and over and keep every1s attention away from the convention. if the convention were not happening, or the democratic convention was happening we would barely be hearing about the storm becuz its barely a cat1.

Dont agree with everything you say SkepticGuy but i like the way you think.

Blessings and mercies to you from Lord Jesus!

elias, how boring life would be if we all agreed on everything.

by SkepticGuy on 2012/8/28 10:20:44

the only reason a big deal is being made about this tropical storm/hurricane in the media is becuz the republican national convention is happening at the same time. its a great diversion and they can run film loops of katrina over and over and keep every1s attention away from the convention. if the convention were not happening, or the democratic convention was happening we would barely be hearing about the storm becuz its barely a cat1.

____________________

You may be right about the media and their intentions for hyping this storm.

I still think that Issac does have the potential to cause damage because of the amount of rain that is going to fall. I was shocked after Irene went through were I live last year. While my town barely had any damages the cities along the cost were heavily damaged. Vermont was hit very hard. Irene was a huge storm in size just like Issac but it was already loosing its strength when it came across the Sound in CT. and was a tropical storm when it hit Vermont. Even so 56 people died in Irene and it cost billions of dollars in damages.

All this to say that while the media does hype stuff up these storms still can produce a ton of damage and to those affected it can be devastating. I pray that won't be the case with this storm.

God bless
mj

Edit: I just wanted to say I was not trying to argue your point about the media skepticguy. I am sorry if my post came across that way. If I offended anyone please forgive me.

MaryJane
All this to say that while the media does hype stuff up these storms still can produce a ton of damage and to those affected it can be devastating.
God bless
mj

Mary, have you been watching the weather channel any at all? They have gone into a total drama mode, I can't even watch it anymore it's got so bad. last night I really thought the two weather guys on there was going to have a stroke, trying to get the storm up to the point of a hurricane. O and the guys out in the storm on the beach standing in the storm, this is so funny, I just have to laugh.If drama sells, which it does, the weather channel should be able to pay the rest of the years bills, thanks to Isaac.

by MrBillPro on 2012/8/28 11:40:09

MaryJane
All this to say that while the media does hype stuff up these storms still can produce a ton of damage and to those affected it can be devastating.
God bless
mj

Mary, have you been watching the weather channel any at all? They have gone into a total drama mode, I can't even watch it anymore it's got so bad. last night I really thought the two weather guys on there was going to have a stroke, trying to get the storm up to the point of a hurricane. O and the guys out in the storm on the beach standing in the storm, this is so funny, I just have to laugh.If drama sells, which it does, the weather channel should be able to pay the rest of the years bills, thanks to Isaac.
____________

no Mr. Bill I don't really watch the weather channel. Although the few times that I have in the past I know they can really hype up storms. I realize they are probably doing that again.

I get most of my weather off of a couple of bloggers I follow. I know this storm is being hyped but I also know that there is the potential for there to be a lot of rain with this storm. I saw the effects of what rain can do to entire towns in Vermont and I just pray that those in Mississippi and Louisiana don't have to go through that. You being from Texas have probably gone through a few storms yourself so you know how quickly water levels can raise and flood areas.

Anyway just been praying that Issac saves some of its rain for the drought affected states :)

God bless
mj

I am not making light of this event at all, this is a serious event, that needs to be taken seriously. I was right in the middle of Hurricane Carla back in 1961, it hit Houston like a ton of bricks, but we never had the drama on tv, and we never saw or heard of any Pastors or anyone, blaming Carla on anything period, to everyone back then, it was just hurricane season and these events were expected. I personally think most Christians want to relate these disasters to the wrath of God, because most don't want to stand up themselves and take back our country, so they get some sort of gratification thinking it's Gods wrath. It may very well be Gods wrath, I don't know, and no one else knows, unless God has personally spoke to them, I sure am not going to relate or blame any disaster period on God, "unless" he personally told me Mr. Bill this disaster was from me. I have never and will never try and figure out God, his ways are not our ways, and his thoughts are not our thoughts.

hi, as i sit here and wait for the storm to hit in baton rouge i recall an incident that happened at the "gay" event 14 years ago. my wife and i got a call at 3:30 am from new orleans. it was from a gay dance instructor who said he was lying in the gutter and would we come and get him. we got up and drove to new orleans to pick him up... we found him on the outskirts of the french quarter(esplanade)he had an argument with his 'partner' and was drunk and wept the whole way back to br... he then had to visit his mothers gravesite where his weeping turned to sobbing.he told us of some of his activities that are too decadent to repeat.he now is delivered and happily married to a woman.praise the Lord. it is a sad lonely lifestyle.these people need Jesus for He alone can change us.jimp

by jimp on 2012/8/28 12:54:46

hi, as i sit here and wait for the storm to hit in baton rouge
______________

jimp I will be praying for you and your family. That is a wonderful testimony that you shared with us. I give thanks to GOD for HIS work in this mans life.

_____________________

Mr Bill I knew you would understand how dangerous these storms can be since you live in Texas.

God bless
mj

MrBillPro said:

"We are all wicked, we are all sinners, no closet is totally clean, so remember this when the hurricane is knocking on your door. It's just God doing a work in His great mercy to show His righteous judgments upon wickedness!"

It is precisely that kind of gospel mentality (void of repentance) that is taking this country to the depths of corruption and destruction.

Your statement is contrary to what Paul writes to the Corinthians:

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul says of many different kinds of wicked people (including effeminate and sodomites -v.9) "and such WERE some of you"

We are either WICKED, or we are WASHED (in the blood), SANCTIFIED, and JUSTIFIED.

Mr. BillPro, obviously, you by your own confession are still wicked. I urge you to open the door of your heart to Jesus. Confess to Him your wickedness! He WILL wash you, sanctify you, and justify you, if you sincerely desire him to. His Word states: 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

When He cleanses, He doesn't do a halfway job leaving some in the closets!!!

Here is the way He explains it in Romans ch. 8:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

In Galatians He explains it like this: Gál 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

If we are as Paul "crucified with Christ" and Christ is living in us ... He is an excellent house keeper. Before a thought gets the chance to turn into a lust, and conceive and turn into a sin (James 1:14-15), He is there shining the spotlight on it and commanding that it go, and every submissive repentant believer obeys and cooperates with His cleaning and preserving blameless:

1Ts 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Ts 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

He IS faithful, and He WILL do it! If you haven't ever felt the deep exceeding greatness of ALL sin in your life, and CRIED OUT to God for forgiveness, and abhorred your sin until God worked a work of repentance in you that continues daily in your life ... you can easily join up with the rest of wicked people in claiming that God will not ever really judge and damn a person because of one "little" sin in his life.

Here is a perfect example: http://youtu.be/7XXUfTNCkzc

America's Number One pastor to your type of theology Joel Osteen explains it very well. In the end, he admits here that homosexuality is a sin, but he makes it very clear that gay people will be in heaven. He uses the same tone that you do in discussing it. The mentality of this heresy can be summed up in this: "Because of the fact that God doesn't categorize sin, and no one sin is any bigger than another, if we have somehow 'believed on Jesus' and we are in a process of change, God will let us ALL into heaven ... regardless if we have been cleansed from sin or not"

jimp said:

"he told us of some of his activities that are too decadent to repeat.he now is delivered and happily married to a woman.praise the Lord."

THANKS FOR SHARING, brother! This is a clear example of what God wants to do with all of the 135,000 who were planning to go to the gay celebration tomorrow. Jesus died for each and every one of them, and it has been my earnest heart-wrenching prayer since the beginning of ISAAC that their bodies would be saved from the hurricane, and their souls would be saved from their sin.

I have been following the weather forecasts on the web closely. The last reports I have heard is that there could be heavy flooding in the area. But will see.

Flooding is nasty. Dirty. Filthy. Muddy. All this filth permeates wherever the water seeps into. You get marine life stuck in tight places in your buildings and when the water recedes they die and stink like something fierce! It would have been better if the buildings had burned or been blown to splinters then to have to deal with a standing building that was flooded.

According to the same reports, this rain could also hurt the corn and cotton crops in Louisiana.

I would be delighted if people would take this as a warning from God and then repent.

All we have had so far in east central MS is a drizzle.

May God bless and may this storm have its desired effect on people wherever they may be.

Here in North Louisiana, the moon is brightly shining upon the outer edges of the formation as they circle above us like low lying bright patches of cotton. How awesome is our Creator who keeps those tons of water up there until just the right moment when they are to fall to the earth.

Job 38:28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
Job 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
Job 38:34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?

Mr. BillPro, obviously, you by your own confession are still wicked.

and this is helpful becuz?

i talked 2 friends this morning that live near new orleans and there is wind and rain, but they still have power and compared to hurricanes in the past this one is very tame. of course there will be damage, its a hurricane. but mr bill makes some very good points. back in the 50s and 60s before the media hurricanes happened and no one was declaring the wrath of god. hurricane agnes was very destructive across the northeast in 1972. i suppose that if the media that exists now existed back then all of u people would blame the woodstock festival for hurricane agnes.

christians have the ability to be incredibly gullible. amazing for people who claim to be based in truth. all of these prophecies and doomsday sayers are simply falling prey to the hype of the national secular media. sum of u sound like uncivilized man who sacrificed humans to the gods to prevent volcano eruptions and other natural calamities that r just part of nature. they happen. they are designed 2 happen. much of the chatter here is nuthing more then superstition.

many people here are beginning 2 sound like pat robertson. i say look up! rejoice! the drought in the midwest is about to get sum much needed rain. praise the lord and pray for the people on the coast.

skeptic guy wrote:i talked 2 friends this morning that live near new orleans and there is wind and rain, but they still have power and compared to hurricanes in the past this one is very tame.

_______________

that is exactly how the storms that came through our area were. Some towns were not touched, they had rain, minor wind, and never lost our power but towns that are not even twenty miles away had terrible damage.

The weather has always amazed me.As you also mention this storm will end up being an answer to many peoples prayers when it begins to rain in drought stricken states further inland. I don't speak for GOD and say this is judgement...but I don't think anything takes GOD by surprise either. Through it all GOD is in control. I just leave it to the LORD and pray. When I lived in Nevada I will admit I was kind of oblivious to really how destructive these storms can be, then when we moved here and I saw first hand the damage and peoples whole lives flipped upside down in a matter of a few hours it just caused me to have a great understanding for what they are going through.

So in this time I pray for those who are HIS to be comforted in HIM and for those who are lost to seek the LORD and repent.

God bless
maryjane

glad u are ok maryjane.

we should all pray for those who have sustained damage, not declare judgment on them. those who are busy declaring wrath on people need to load up food water and clothing and head down there and be jesus' hands and feet. want to make a change? stop condemning and start feeding and taking care of those people. they wont listen to a word u say without some kind of action to back it up. self proclaimed keyboard prophets are not needed in a disaster area.

SkepticGuy....many people here are beginning 2 sound like Pat Robertson.

I would like to say that's funny, but it's not funny, it's TRUE! "BUT" let Pat say something off the wall, and we get a 20 page thread on how looney Pat is.

Lordoitagain...Mr. BillPro, obviously, you by your own confession are still wicked.

It's really a sad day when folks have to mix personal attacks with God's word to get their message across, at least make the personal attack in a separate post. You can personalty attack me all day long, they did the same to Jesus, so I am in good company. :)

Pat better watch out, I think some folks here are after his Job. :)

skepticguy/Mr Bill:

I couldn't agree more with your sentiments on this topic.

Skeptic, how bad does it have to get before you would assume that such an “act of nature” would be the judgment of God???

If you go to the Southern Decadence “2012 DJ SCHEDULE FOR THE BOURBON PUB / PARADE” page (I don’t suggest going there), you see that the first thing planned for midnight Thursday was a contest of comparing sexual body parts (putting it in laymen’s terms).

Do you not think that our Loving Creator would be interested in stopping such events? In order to stop further corruption of minds and hearts … I believe that Our God loves the souls involved enough to stop their event and stop the further sinking of lives into such a very sad deceptive lifestyle.

If they were planning an event Thursday to bash the heads of babies against hard rocks just for the thrill of it … and God sent a hurricane … would you then realize that it was an act of God’s judgment?

Open, brazen, in God’s face wickedness invites God’s judgment. If God doesn’t send judgment, the spread of evil is worse, and more souls are contaminated and destroyed just like God says:

Ecl 8:11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

God cares enough to stop or deter such an event!

Nah 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

He is STILL having His way in the whirlwind!

What about when the Palm Sunday tornados in 1965 wiped out Mennonite areas in northern Indiana- was that God's judgment?

It is not hard to understand. There are always fires, there are always earthquakes, there are always blizzards, there are always hurricanes, there are always tornados, there are always floods.

They are no respecter of persons; they kill the godly and ungodly alike.

does it make sense to u that god issued forth wrath upon new orleans 7 years ago in a massive hurricane, and nothing changed there. so god comes back 7 years later and sees that nothing has changed and so he decides to hit them again with a hurricane that is barely more than a tropical storm? that does not make any sense. i do not believe that god wants that sort of behavior to take place. he can stop it if he wants to. i doubt that this storm stopped it since the biggest part of the storm is past now and there was not that much destruction in new orleans. funny thing is that most of the destruction from the storm didnt happen in new orleans, but about 70 to 90 miles from there. people who had nothing to do with whats going on in new orleans this week took the brunt of the destruction. so apparently god missed. whoops.

can god use natural disasters to issue wrath? the good book says he did at times. but sometimes nature works the way god designed it to work. hurricanes are part of nature. if there was no natural explanation for hurricanes then it would be reasonable to think that god sent them to punish mankind. but hurricanes have been battering the coastline of the north american continent since the beginning of time. the only difference now is that people choose to live in the path of hurricanes. if every1 moved to nevada then we would have nothing to talk about, unless god is issuing wrath on the alligator population. sum would probably argue for that. sinful crocs. was this hurricane meant to stop the southern dacadence thing? maybe, maybe not. my question is why didnt god try to stop it the past 7 years? see how unreasonable the thinking is?

Skeptic, TMK,

Do you guys believe the Bible? "the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm"

Nah 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

I choose to believe the Bible! Even if the storm hits a Mennonite camp, a Baptist camp, a Pentecostal camp, a Sodomite city ... He is actively working His perfect will in every storm.

Why are we so eager to defend brazen wickedness? When a storm stops a party of evil, and we don't want to believe that God did it (on purpose) we openly brazenly don't believe the Bible (Nahum 1:3)!

hi, i would like to make you aware that the only undamaged area in katrina was the french quarter, where the gay fest is held.jimp

Skeptic, you keep talking about "making sense". What DOESN'T make sense is that God hasn't already wiped the USA off the map! We deserve to be HISTORY already for our wickedenss!

When God deters evil a little bit with a storm or other means (like HIV) it is His act of kindness toward wicked men who deserve to be in hell already.

Lordoitagain, I think your getting God mixed up with Government. Only Governments take out or deal out harm to thousands of innocent people when going after a few evil doers. The God I serve, could pin point and take out one ant in a mountain of ants as big as Mt. Everest, from anywhere in the Heavens, without harming another ant,if he wanted. That should provide you with a little prospective. :)

Lordoitagain, why do you keep providing scripture? yes scripture can tell us what God is capable of, and what is to come, but it does not mean every little hiccup in life is Gods wrath.

The God I serve "hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm" regardless of whether mere mortals believe he does or not.

Mortal...A human being subject to death, that would include you, we all are subject to death, but life after death is what matters most. I think Pat has a job opening. :)

Lordoitagain....Why are we so eager to defend brazen wickedness? .(Nahum 1:3)!

Please point out were "anyone" on this thread has defended or even condoned the Southern Decadence celebration.

hi, i would like to make you aware that the only undamaged area in katrina was the french quarter, where the gay fest is held.jimp

that is an interesting fact that i had forgotten.

no one is defending wickedness. there are just differening opinions and some of them do not agree w/u, lorddoitagain. why can we not disagree w/out getting huffy? its probably true that any storm stops a party of wickedness sumewhere. blizzards, hurricanes, tornados. i will be watching this winter when a blizzard hits minnesota to see if u call down the fire on the dairy farmers and meat packers and cheese makers. while there is certainly sum damage in new orleans proper from this hurricane, the bulk of the destruction is not in new orleans. how do u explain that? how do u explain why the french quarter was spared during katrina? i have been to the french quarter and to mardi gras in the past. if these hurricanes were gods wrath then why did he spare the most decadent part of the city? twice? if the hurricane had hit tampa florida or the outer banks of north carolina or savannah georgia would u be declaring gods wrath on those cities? there is homosexual activity in those cities too. hurricane season is long from over, u may get a chance yet.

Lorddoitagain will u be taking clothes and food and water to the victims of this hurricane? what a wonderful opportunity this will be to help feed and take care of those who are dealing with the aftermath. u could talk to some homosexuals about your belief in god. dont miss an opportunity.

i did a google search on hurricane issac wrath of god. seems every1 is claiming this to be the wrath of god. most of the things google pulled up were articles declaring issac to be gods wrath on the republican party. look it up 4 urself. every1 wants this storm 2 be gods wrath on whoever it is that they hate. i think this is gods wrath upon zydeco music.

Nahum 1:2-4:

"The Lord is a jealous God,
filled with vengeance and rage.
He takes revenge on all who oppose him
and continues to rage against his enemies!
3 The Lord is slow to get angry, but his power is great,
and he never lets the guilty go unpunished.
He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm.
The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet.
4 At his command the oceans dry up,
and the rivers disappear.
The lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade,
and the green forests of Lebanon wither."
_________________

Lorddoitagain:

I was going to say that the above passage seems to be poetic to me but I know that would just upset you. The oceans have never dried up, to my knowledge. And no, I am not saying that God could not dry up the oceans if He wanted to. He could do it in .2 seconds.

No one here is arguing that God cannot or does not control the weather, although I believe in the great majority of cases He just lets nature take its course.

And no one here is saying that the USA in general is not a pretty wicked place.

But every time something bad happens in nature you can't just say that God did it to punish the wicked.

Why can't you just admit that in this case this storm did not seem to be a direct judgment on New Orleans and instead was likely an answer to prayer from drought stricken farmers? AFter all it would take tropical storm type rain (many inches) to even touch the rainfall deficit.

I guess a person can try to make a lot out of the 7 years passing between Katrina and Isaac, but to me it is just coincidence. It is storm season after all.

(Psalms 86:15 NIV) But you, O Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.

(Psalms 100:5 NIV) For the LORD is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations.

SkepticGuy

(Psalms 86:15 NIV) But you, O Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.

(Psalms 100:5 NIV) For the LORD is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations.

O no! you posted some good, uplifting, encouraging, Love of God, Praise the Lord! scripture, isn't that going against the grain? :)

Mr. Bill and Skeptic,
You guys are only displaying your ignorance of both the sovereignty
and the judgement of God by the statements you have made. Three
hurricanes have hit the New Orleans area during Southern Decadence.
You don't even have to be that spiritual to see that this is more than
coincidence or chance. The guys I work with see it and recognize
that this is the judgement of God and not many of them are in
fellowship with God.

Mike

hi, aren't you glad that Jesus took all of the wrath for our sin on the cross athat romans 8:1says that there is therefore no judgement(krino) condemnation(krino)for those who are in Christ Jesus.jimp

To those who dispute God using natural calamities to undermine ones security in order to force them to face up with their own mortality, what do you think God will use to bring about repentance in hearts and minds of people given to perversion?

hi, aren't you glad that Jesus took all of the wrath for our sin on the cross athat romans 8:1says that there is therefore no judgement(krino) condemnation(krino)for those who are in Christ Jesus.jimp

I am so thankful that Jesus took the wrath for my sin. Oh, I was so deserving of that wrath, but there is now no condemnation (damnatory sentence) on me because of the blood of Jesus. I don't deserve it. It is His grace. Wow!

I would like to throw out a couple of items to consider.

In New Orleans, the sin is flaunted in the open. In my part of the country, people do these same things all the time. They just do it in their houses. The sin is not different. The manifestation of the sin in actions is no different. It is just the location of the manifestation that has changed from outdoors to indoors. Why would God judge New Orleans with a Hurricane and not judge all other places where this same sin exists? Why is New Orleans considered so much worse when the same sinfulness and the same actions of sin are being committed all over the nation / world. Is it just because they are doing these things on the street rather than in houses?

Did not Jesus bear God's wrath on the cross? Is God not now, under the new covenant, dealing with man in grace? Does God now, under the new covenant, judge man, cities, nations for individual acts of sin (homosexuality vs. lying for example)? Or is God reserving judgement until the return of Christ when He will judge the living and the dead based on how they have responded to the offering of Jesus Christ?

You see, these are some questions that I simply must deal with when I am considering whether Katrina, Isaac, the Joplin tornado, the Japanese tsunami, etc..

Homosexuality is sin. Homosexuals who do not repent of their sin, be born again, and follow Christ will go to Hell. But then again, so will any other sinner. The consequences of homosexuality on society, the body, the psyche, relationships, etc. are far, far, far greater than the consequences of many other manifestations of the sin of man, but ultimately won't the homosexual, the liar, the thief, the adulterer, etc. be judged based on what their refusal to turn to Christ and receive the offer of grace so freely given?

Just some questions to consider.

Blessings.

twayneb ... some things to consider regarding your questions:

Why did God strike two upstanding "believers" Ananias, and Sapphira dead right in the church house? They were trying to hide sin. Remember, this is after Jesus' death, burial and ascension.

Why ... a few chapters later (12) ... did God strike Herod dead right in front of a huge crowd eaten with worms. His flagrant sin was in the open.

God did not stop performing random acts of wrath after Jesus' coming. Throughout history other similar things have happened.

By the way ... "there is now no condemnation (damnatory sentence) on me because of the blood of Jesus" only if we fulfill the rest of the verse and "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Random acts of wrath? :-)

I know it has become popular among some circles to claim that every natural disaster is a new instance of the judgements of God being poured out in the earth. I know of some rather recent movements that are gaining popularity in the body that focus a great deal on these events. They prophecy them, and proclaim them seemingly continually.

I find it difficult to use Ananias and Sapphira and Herod as justification for saying Katrina was the judgement of God. Yes, God did take the life of all three of these individuals. I cannot begin to say I know God's mind in these incidents. I do know Herod was a threat to the early church. Ananias and Sapphira are not called "upstanding" believers. We simply know that they took it upon themselves to lie to God and man so that man would look upon them as something that they obviously were not.

But I think we have to be careful in going beyond what is clear in the word. We have no Biblical justification, that I can see, for claiming that Katrina or Isaac were sent by God as a judgement. How do we know that these things were the judgement of God? Did He tell us? Or is it our opinion? We live in a world corrupted by sin. Weather systems that produce storms of any sort are a perversion of nature brought about as the result of the catastrophic destruction of the earth by water about 4000 years ago. Can we really say that one storm was God's judgement upon homosexuality, another upon abortion, and etc.?

I realize that we cannot base our doctrine on personal experience. It must come from the Word. When the tornado destroyed 1/3 of Joplin a year and a half ago, a local pastor said in no uncertain terms that the tornado was God's judgement on abortion. He was echoing a popular voice in the movement he sought to be a part of. Yet there were several churches where spirit-filled people were meeting that were destroyed, and there were saints who were killed. So I must ask myself the question, "Did God kill believers to make a point to unbelievers that abortion was wrong?" You see, to me it gets pretty convoluted pretty quickly.

If we are going to claim that God sent these things to judge New Orleans, what of Las Vegas? The wickedness of that place is no less is it not? Why has it not been destroyed? One might say, "because God's ways are beyond us." Yet we are so sure that we do understand God's ways when we claim that New Orleans was His judgement. That seems to me a bit inconsistent.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't think it a good idea to quickly proclaim that this or that tragedy was sent by God to judge this or that sin. We do not know that. To say we do is, in my opinion, to step over a line we need not be stepping over. We might be of that opinion, but then I am of the opposite opinion, and who is right? We could argue about it all day long, but really, who is right? I say perhaps neither of us.

AbideinHim
Mr. Bill and Skeptic,
You guys are only displaying your ignorance of both the sovereignty
and the judgement of God by the statements you have made.
Mike

So Mike, what are you showing by your personal attacks? why can't folks just post a word from God, if they have one about the storm/storms or any disaster. It's not necessary to call folks ignorant, over things that are not facts or have no proof, it's all hypothetical so for. If some want to believe all this wrath is from God, I am not going to call you names if you believe this, why can't I and skeptic get the same respect? Like my old Pastor used to say, "You ain't never been beat up until your have been beat up by a Christian". it's unbelievable now I am ignorant, because someone post their personal opinions with no proof, I sure hope and pray that you are never on a my jury if I were ever to be in a court room. Mike did you really need to resort to name calling to promote your opinion? you know normally when folks do this, their opinions are taken less seriously. I guess this is Mikes version of iron sharpens iron. :)

bearmaster
Read Romans 1:15-31. New Orleans and the rest of the nation are already under judgement. Because we have turned away from God to worship creation. God has given us over to our base desires. Thus the rise in homosexuality. The fact this perverted sin is running rampant is indicative of God's judgement.

Bearmaster.

Bear, I can live with this, why? because your "generally" speaking about what the word does say about things to come because of the direction America and the world has taken. Bear, I have a problem with the "Pat Roberson" type off the wall responses, without any word from God. I can't even believe anyone would even blame God for something that they are not sure is from him, I mean "THEIR BLAMING GOD" this is pretty powerful. I would never even think of blaming God for anything, unless he personally told me, Bill the next hurricane that hits New Orleans will be from me. Does God still speak to us?

Three hurricanes have hit the New Orleans area during Southern Decadence. You don't even have to be that spiritual to see that this is more than coincidence or chance.

i agree completely. it is not coincidence or chance that this Southern Decadence event is hit by hurricanes 3 times. they hold it during hurricane season in a city that has been hit or brushed by a hurricane 62 times in the last 140 years. it is hit by a hurricane every 2.26 years. the longest gap between hurricanes in the new orleans area was 7 years between 1936-1944. compare that to florida or the bahamas or cuba though and u realize that new orleans has faired pretty well.

so no coincidence or chance involved at all. in fact it should be expected. its like saying its a coincidence that sum1 who eats at mcdonalds everyday ends up fat.

no1 has said god doesnt speak through weather or meat out justice through storms. i think sum r saying we should not play the prophet and speak for god. and just becuz sum1 doesnt see eye to eye on sumthing does not give sum1 the right to call sum1 else ignorant. thats 1 of the things i hate about christians. lack of dialogue. just call names and right people off. why can there not be civil discourse? isnt there sumthin in the good book about drawing more flies with honey? (niv) proverbs 15:1 A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

“Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.”
(Galatians 1:10, NIV)

mr bear, just becuz sum1 has a different perspective than u on things duz not mean they dont believe in god or love jesus. if that were the case u would be the only real christian on this website and every1 else is going 2 hell. is it any wonder there are so many denominations? not really. and each denomination thinks they have the keys to heaven and all others are hellbound. it would do u good mr. bear 2 break loose of ur medieval ways of thinking. how can u learn anything if u have to be right all the time? i appreciate u wanting 2 save me. jesus has already done the job. if u desire to show people god then i would like to make the friendly suggestion that u tone down ur approach. u remind me of street preachers i see in waikiki who turn people off and invite criticism by their words and actions, and when they get it they cry presecution. not judging u. just offering sum friendly advice.

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QUOTE:
"no1 has said god doesnt speak through weather or meat out justice through storms. i think sum r saying we should not play the prophet and speak for god. and just becuz sum1 doesnt see eye to eye on sumthing does not give sum1 the right to call sum1 else ignorant. thats 1 of the things i hate about christians. lack of dialogue. just call names and right people off. why can there not be civil discourse? isnt there sumthin in the good book about drawing more flies with honey? (niv) proverbs 15:1 A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."
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Sir, before you comment any further on this issue, I would beg of you to study the scriptures beginning at Genesis 1 and read all the way through to Revelation. Do not read any other theological, philosophical works. But do ask the LORD to show you what He wants you to know.

Please do so, and start now.

ginnyrose

ginnyrose wrote:

"Sir, before you comment any further on this issue, I would beg of you to study the scriptures beginning at Genesis 1 and read all the way through to Revelation. Do not read any other theological, philosophical works. But do ask the LORD to show you what He wants you to know.

Please do so, and start now."

What in the world was in skepticguy's post that you quoted that led you to tell him the read the Bible cover to cover?
It seems very condescending to say the least.

TMK, let's go farther,I would like to know what has been in any of Skeptic's posts period that has brought on all the judgements towards him? I am thinking it might have something to do with his name, if he is being judged because of his name, it had become a sad day at SI. What gives anyone here the right to judge another over opinions? Don't judge! Or call folks names, unless you have the ability to see the heart from cyberspace. Some here act like SI is some sort of place for a cage match, it's become sickining, for lack of a better word.

Approved, I hope that you will read the "IS THIS "HATEFUL"?? by Andrew Strom" at this link:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=46480&forum=34

Jesus' ministry was preceeded by John the Baptist's ministry with a fiery condemning message. Jesus himself continued with the same message:

Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

He was saying this to the religious of his day! The problem modern homosexuality is that it has become a religious movement to ACCEPT it as OK.

If the SCHOOLMASTER is never allowed to do its work, then the love of Christ can NEVER be experienced:

Gál 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gál 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

approved and mrbillpro get what i have been saying. what would u who are quick to condemn done with the woman caught in adultry? would u have acted like christ?

lorddoitagain, where has any1 on this website indicated that they accept homosexuality as ok? i have not seen it. ur setting up tin soldiers and knocking them down while ignoring the battle raging outside ur door, my friend.

i've been told not to speak anymore by the person who told me to read a bible. i can take a hint. i luv u all! please stay civil w/ea other. christians fighting is uglier than homosexuality could ever be.

peace out.

Ginnyrose

How are you doing? Has the storm done much damage in your area? I have been seeing the flooding in Mississippi as well as Louisiana. I also wanted to check in on those others who live in the area? Been praying for everyone. Hope the storm passes soon and waters recede quickly.

God Bless
mj

i hear what skepticguy is saying...he's not trolling, he's just not yes and amening what other posters have to say.

neil

Neil, you nailed it! God Bless a brother that can see through the fog, and is not afraid to speak the truth.

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QUOTE:
"What in the world was in skepticguy's post that you quoted that led you to tell him the read the Bible cover to cover?"
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If you check to see what I responded to, you will know.

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QUOTE:
"It seems very condescending to say the least."
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If this is your opinion, so be it. I will not retract what I said.

Scripture is the best antidote for ignorance. I did not write the WORD and neither did anyone else on this forum. Most people on here adhere to its authority; it reveals the mind of God, gives life to its devotees.

The issue at stake is one discussed throughout the WORD. For one to not see it...well, what else can one conclude?

I am thinking it might have something to do with his name

if i changed my name to 'septicguy' maybe people will stop judging my spiritualaity and start asking me for advice about their plumbing. :-)

i'm only up to genesis 3 so i need to be quiet now. :-)

(jk ginnyrose)

peace out.

This whole thread has got so far out into left field, I think we all are now setting in the bleachers with the Pharisees. :)

ginnyrose wrote:

"if you check to see what I responded to, you will know."

This is you quoted that skepticguy wrote that you were responding to:

""no1 has said god doesnt speak through weather or meat out justice through storms. i think sum r saying we should not play the prophet and speak for god. and just becuz sum1 doesnt see eye to eye on sumthing does not give sum1 the right to call sum1 else ignorant. thats 1 of the things i hate about christians. lack of dialogue. just call names and right people off. why can there not be civil discourse? isnt there sumthin in the good book about drawing more flies with honey? (niv) proverbs 15:1 A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."

I have now read his post about 5 times. I must be really dumb, because I see nothing in what he wrote here that would cause any reasonable person to tell him not post anything further until he reads his Bible cover to cover.

Please show me what he said that warrants such a response from anyone.

TMK,

There are many moderns that will discount the effect of natural catastrophes as being under God's control and tools he will use to undermine people's security. In the OT these events were called judgments; in the NT it is called chastisements. God is not limited to using floods, earthquakes, droughts but will also use war to bring about the same effect.

Isaiah writes a lot about this, pronouncing judgments upon the wicked. Revelation does as well - all with the idea of bringing people to their knees in repentance for sin. All judgement is redemptive in nature, and purpose. Hell is the final one from which there is no release. These others are not so.

God will not be mocked, contrary to many moderns wishes. God is not willing that any should perish, including homos, lesbians, liars, cheats, adulterers, etc. It is not only the wicked who are chastised it is God's people as well. Consider Hebrews 12:6-13:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

TMK, the reason I advised Skeptic to study the WORD is because this principle permeates scripture. To be able to read it and not see it would indicate either blindness or poor comprehension skills. It is far better for a person to read for himself and see it then it is for another to interpret it for them.

God bless.

ginnyrose

ginnyrose i have not mocked god. and i have not defended devient behavior as i have been accused of doing simply becuz i have not agreed with everything a few people have said. i have made factual observations and then asked meaningful questions. people asked questions of jesus all the time. instead of acting like a lot of christians, he actually answered their questions and didnt accuse them of being ignorant or not believing. the ones he accused of being ignorant and not believing were those who thought they had all the answers. i will always remain friendly with people here. i am not always right but i hope others can learn from my example that there is no need to get upset or call down fire on others. we are all in this together.

Approved, have you ever asked a homo whether he has ever felt in his spirit what he is doing is wrong?

I never have, but I have worked at a Crises Pregnancy Center for fifteen years and talked with sinners of all kinds. I say we have encountered every kind of sin known to man and imagination except for homosexuals/lesbians - they do not need a pregnancy test. With the exception of one person (I suspected there was something wrong with her mentally), they all knew they were living in sin, that their lifestyle was wrong, that they were away from God - some cared but most did not. The ones who wanted abortion knew it was wrong but did not care or expected God to forgive them after the fact when they asked him to.

My point? I suspect these people in their spirits know it is sin. For many, I suspect, they have hardened their hearts to this still small voice where they barely can hear Him anymore, hence no conviction. This can be evidenced when there is no shame in the displaying, flaunting of their bodies in perverted manners.

Hebrews 8:10-13 says it well:

10 “FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

11 “AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,
AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, ‘KNOW THE LORD,’
FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,
FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

12 “FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”

13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

I suspect we do not realize the depth of the promise of this scripture. On the other hand, it provides one with a lot of hope - hope for those who are so desperately lost in wickedness. Reconciliation happens when they realize their lost condition, but it usually is a process, does not happen all at once. Some have to fall deep into the gutter before they tire of it.

One more point to consider, why do they fight Christians so much? Is it not because we remind them of what they have heard in their spirit but have worked to dismiss it? It works this way with anything you want to discount in the WORD. When you see someone who lives it, people will work to discredit them.

Something to think about...

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QUOTE:
"i have not defended devient behavior"
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Good.

God bless.

ginnyrose i apologize 2 u for making u feel hostile towards me. i hope that there will come a time when u can answer the questions i have asked here. i just want to know the answers and nuthing more. so far instead of answers i have received judgment and terse responses like 'good'. but my questions go unanswered.

i dont think using a derogatory name like homo is helpful. the dictionary defines homo as:

NOUN: A member of the genus Homo, which includes the extinct and extant species of humans.

ETYMOLOGY:
Latin hom, man; see Indo-European roots

according to the dictionary you are a homo.

Approved wrote: "Most homosexuals have no clue what is truth. I do not believe for a moment that Romans 1 apply to sinners. It applies to people that know the truth and have pleasure in unrighteousness."

If they have no clue what is truth, it is because THE CHURCH is sending them such a mixed message. If they were in a language group that hadn't yet received God's Word, you might have a point. Oddly enough, in those groups, there is very little homosexuality. Homosexuality is most rampant in societies that have been exposed to truth and are rejecting it. Because Satan knows that children growing up in society where the gospel has been sown have the potential of becoming a big threat to his kingdom, he starts on them early.

For those who don't know what homosexuality is like, let me describe it to you from firsthand experience. When I was a young child for some odd reason I wanted to play with dolls with my sister. At the time I couldn’t have told you why, but later on in life I realized why. Later, as a young child, I would play a game of “doctor” with guy friends where we would see each other’s nakedness. I was drawn to the same sex as a very young child. I wanted to kiss and hug boys. Later, around the age of 9, an older cousin of mine molested me (I was a willing participant) and taught me the whole thing. Thank God it was before puberty and I was not physically developed enough to have the full blown experience.

Thank God I went to a good church as a child, and had a good understanding that GOD HATES THAT SIN! At the age of 11 I gave my life to God. The problem didn’t stop there. From that point there was a WAR on the inside of me. I would never wish that inner conflict on my worst enemy. When you know that it is wrong to lust after girls, and yet you are doing worse, you are having lustful thoughts toward boys, you can only cry out to God for deliverance and for mortification of the flesh. THANK GOD he is faithful to His promise to WASH, SANCTIFY and JUSTIFY those who sincerely cry out to Him. I needed a miracle of deliverance. THANK GOD He is faithful! So many times as a teenager I sincerely asked God: “Why didn’t you make me girl”? Thank God He affirmed to my soul and life that He had made me a MAN for a purpose, and that he would deliver me from those evil thoughts. And He did! He is faithful.

I later came to the conclusion and realization that there had been a demon (at least one but probably many more) assigned to from the time I was born with the purpose of destroying what God wanted to do in my life. That is exactly what my wife said to me when I explained all of those struggles to her before we were married. I later learned to resist the devil and he would flee from me with all of his WICKED evil thoughts and dreams.

BROTHERS AND SISTER, HEAR ME WELL: If I had had “softie” Christians around me giving me a little bit of hope that maybe it wasn’t such a bad thing … I WOULD BE DESTROYED AND PROBABLY IN HELL TODAY HAVING DIED WITH AIDS!!! If this flesh had been loosed to fulfill its passions, there was no limit to what I would have done!

The demonic stronghold of homosexual action takes the natural fountain of natural sexual desires, and reroutes those feelings and emotions toward the same sex. The feelings are just as deep and strong as heterosexual desire, but they are channeled to the same sex. Then it mixes a hefty dose of curiosity to want to try WHATEVER to find fulfillment that can only be found in God’s natural way (one man with one woman ‘til death do us part). If someone had given me the slightest hope that I might be able to have made it to heaven that way, I would NOT have submitted to the painful crucifixion of the flesh and I would have never been ABLE to repent!

Now I have the REVENGE in me that 2Cor. 7:11 mentions:

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

I HATE that sin, and I hate the devilish “Christian” deception that wants to make it “not so bad”. As with ALL sin, if there are not preachers of righteousness proclaiming the utter wickedness of it, then there is no hope of anyone repenting of it. I had hoped that sermonindex was a place where people understood God’s extreme wrath toward all sin, including sodomy.

I’ve seen documentaries of people dying with AIDS in their last months THANKING GOD for giving them AIDS and stopping their wild lifestyle before they died so that they could repent and come to know His love. I am glad in my case, that there were preachers of righteousness around to explain God’s wrath to me as a young person, and I didn’t have to go the route of experiencing it in part while on earth in order to come to know His love and forgiveness.

I HATE that sin, and I hate the devilish “Christian” deception that wants to make it “not so bad”. As with ALL sin, if there are not preachers of righteousness proclaiming the utter wickedness of it, then there is no hope of anyone repenting of it. I had hoped that sermonindex was a place where people understood God’s extreme wrath toward all sin, including sodomy.

thank u for sharing your story. my heart goes out to u.

i must say that even though i am new to this website i have not seen one single instance where any1 here has wanted "to make it “not so bad”." when u say "I had hoped that sermonindex was a place where people understood God’s extreme wrath toward all sin, including sodomy" u leave me scratching my head. do u say this becuz there are sum that may question u whether god used a hurricane to bring judgement this week? i never said he didnt. i just have questions. can we not ask questions?

please show me where any1 here has made it "not so bad". why do u accuse ur brothers and sisters of such when there is no evidence? i can understand ur passion for this topic, but i think ur passion runs away with u. show sum evidence so that any1 guilty may repent.

im really not being a smart alleck. i fail to see where the accusations against people on this website are legitimate. please advise.

Brother, thank you for sharing this testimony. I believe that it
really could help some people that are struggling with this sin.

I believe that homosexuality is not only a work of the flesh,
but once yielded to repeatedly opens the door to unclean spirits
of perversion.

Mike

Homosexuality is most rampant in societies that have been exposed to truth and are rejecting it.

thats bible right there. god gave them over to a perverse mind. u have to reject god be4 he gives up on u.

Homosexuality is most rampant in societies that have been exposed to truth and are rejecting it.

I'm not too sure about it. I thought that in the old days in Rome and so on, homosexuality was common?

SkepticGuy wrote: “i must say that even though i am new to this website i have not seen one single instance where any1 here has wanted "to make it “not so bad”." ”

Here is one example: “We are all wicked, we are all sinners, no closet is totally clean, so remember this when the hurricane is knocking on your door. It's just God doing a work in His great mercy to show His righteous judgments upon wickedness! ”

If that’s the kind of Christianity that Christ left us with, then I am not really free from my sin. I’m still a homo, if that’s the case! I’m still a sissy that can’t help himself.

This is the first time that I have ever so openly shared publicly what I went through as a younger person for the very reason that most people don't know that there is COMPLETE deliverance from sin; whatever the sin may be. Society has put the stigma on that particular sin as though a person is “born with it” and even many Christians have swallowed that lie. I haven't read it yet, but my brother sent me a link to what he said was an excellent exposure of that lie:  http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/08a/born_gay_hoax/TheBornGayHoax.pdf

One of the main reasons that I hate that particular sin so much is that I know from my own life the misery and mental torment that it puts on a person, and how hard it is to come to a complete personality change. It takes a miracle … the miracle of death to the old man and life in the new man. In all of my personal efforts to act masculine, I still often couldn't hide what was happening on the inside. Even as an older teen, when I started learning Spanish and crossed over into another culture, my Mexican friends would tell me: “Don’t say it like that … it sounds sissy”. I was SO bound, but now I’m free! But if Christianity is a thing where “no closet is totally clean” then I’m still bound. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therin. (Rom. 6:1-2)

My sin, Oh the bliss of this glorious thought,
My sin, not in part, but the whole
Is nailed to the Cross and I bear it no more
Praise the Lord, Praise the Lord Oh my soul!

Here is another way to look at it that might help you understand. This is not an unrealistic situation if you are in Mexico. There are assassins there who kill as a way of life.

If you were to watch your mother or grandmother get brutally hacked to pieces while screaming until she died by a group of Zeta gangsters, and the gangsters were planning a big bash in New Orleans where 135,000 planned to be there and they were going to be showing off their “trophies” … skulls, finger bones, leg bones, etc. … and you found out that a deadly hurricane stopped their celebration, wouldn’t you be able to realize that it was the hand of God deterring their evil? Then if 7 years to the day, another one happens to stop the same celebration, would you not see it as a statement from God?

How evil is evil to us?

Then if you were to get on sermonindex, and read such things as:

“I would find it hard to believe that any of those folks would even entertain the thought it was from God, at least not verbally. For the record, I am not sure it's from God either,but even if it's not, the hurricane has perfect timing for ruining this event. ”

“I can't even believe anyone would even blame God for something that they are not sure is from him, I mean "THEIR BLAMING GOD" this is pretty powerful. ”

“its a storm. they happen. it isnt even a big storm as far as hurricanes go. tsumani hit japan that was 100 times more devastating than this hurricane will be. was God pouring out his anger and punishment on the people of japan? blizzards hit the northeast and midwest. is that God punishing them? ”

Since YOUR life was so personally devastated by that brand of wickedness, you would automatically link the storm to your loving Heavenly Father trying to stop the spread of such brutal evil … you wouldn't want others to be hurt by becoming contaminated with the evil. You would KNOW that it is such a horrible thing that God would certainly be wanting to show His divine display of displeasure.

What if you read something like this:

“YES He would. He wouldn't even judge anyone. He would go with so much mercy that He would have gone right to the core of the issue, the need for God. He would have so much love for those assassins that from all over they would be drawn to this love, why? Because it's love they seek and they seek it in all the wrong places. They would swarm around Jesus.”

To you, the sin of brutal murder would be SO horrible that you would want the assassins to realize that it is HORRIBLE and they need to repent and stop doing it.

I've been praying earnestly for the many habitual assassins throughout the Hispanic world for a while now. They NEED the love of Jesus, but first they need an understanding of the law of God and the TERRIBLENESS of their sin. To many of them, killing your grandmother would be no different than killing a dog. Seriously!

Personally, my life was SO tormented, traumatized and hurt by the sin of homosexuality that I see it as just as HORRIBLE as brutal murder.

Actually the more we come to know God and get closer to Him, the more we see ALL sin in that fashion. Our loving Creator watched His own Son get brutally tortured to death by OUR sins! He feels that way toward ALL sin. We feel strongly against sins that have caused us intense suffering. We don’t see the big picture. We can only truly repent when we feel that way about ALL sin! Our society is making such an effort to make ALL sin so normal and commonplace that it is hard for people to come to true repentance these days.

Learn wrote: "Quote:

Homosexuality is most rampant in societies that have been exposed to truth and are rejecting it.

I'm not too sure about it. I thought that in the old days in Rome and so on, homosexuality was common?"

Rome had much more of exposure to truth than the societies that I was writing about. I've met people from Indian tribes who barely speak Spanish who had never seen a homosexual until they came to the USA. I'm talking about jungle tribes who have never known what we call "civilized" life.

Rome had a lot of knowledge of the God of Israel and His laws ... but many of them rejected Him.

AbideinHim wrote: "Brother, thank you for sharing this testimony. I believe that it
really could help some people that are struggling with this sin."

Thanks, Brother. To be honest it wasn't easy. It is actually a painful part of my past like a nightmare that I wish never existed, but I felt compelled to shed some light on the issue here. I hope that it can help others to see that we who hate the sin, but love the sinner ... some of us can honestly say as Dwight L. Moody: "There, but for the grace of God walks me"

Michael,

Your testimony is powerful. I needed to hear this.

It is so refreshing to hear how God does deliver those caught in the snares of sin.

May God richly bless you and your wife and may his face shine upon you and give you peace...

ginnyrose

Approved said: "Besides you brother, I am now marked as "one of them"."

I realize the sad reality of what you are saying, because I know how people are. The sadder reality is that any "Christian" who would mark someone that way because of their testimony, doesn't really know the resurrection power of God, and if they don't come to know His resurrection power they will not go to heaven.

Alcoholics Anonymous teaches people to say that they are a recovering alcoholic ... but always for the rest of their lives, an alcoholic. I am NOT a "recovering homosexual". I am a NEW creature in Christ.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

I liked what you said: "When I realized that my sin was not what defined me and my new identity was Christ I was able to shake that off"

I'd like to even take it a step further ... "When I realized that my sin was GONE, I realized that I was a new creature!"

Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Most of the theology that I hear from modern "Christianity" doesn't present victorious deliverance from sin ... just a rehab mentality toward our old nature. The old man can't be rehabilitated. It has to die! Jesus paid the awful cost to mortify our old man and to resurrect us to a new man:

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Later, I learned when thoughts came to my brain to not accept the guilt for them but to RECOGNIZE who gave them to me and rebuke him in the name of Jesus! When the devil would come trying to wake up the dead man ... I've even told him: "that old man is dead! Get out of here in the name of Jesus!" After a while, he "departs for a season" and the seasons get longer and farther apart, the more you assure him that you know that the old man is dead and you are a new creature!

A few years ago, God gave me a song regarding the struggle that I went through when I was younger. I've never sang it to anyone but myself, but here are the words, in case they can be a help to someone:

As a little boy growing up,
I played with dolls and girly stuff.
My parents had no clue
Of what my mind was going through.
But there were things I could not hide
To act like a boy I really tried.
“Why didn't you make me a girl?”
To God I sincerely cried,

But He said:
I made you a man,
And for your life that's my plan
In spite of all your confusion,
Look to me and take a stand.

As I grew older it got worse,
An older boy made a scar that hurt.
He called it “having fun”
But on my life he put a curse.
At that young age my mind was warped
Inside my heart was a constant war.
Attraction for “the same as me”
Was enticing me insanely,

But God said:
I made you a man,
And for your life that's my plan
In spite of all your confusion,
Look to me and take a stand.

Thank God He saved me,
He saved my soul,
But my mind was a battle out of control
“Lord I want to think like a man,
But I'm wondering if I can”
And then I looked at a rugged cross.
He said: “boy I've paid it. I've paid the cost.
You're delivered, you're set free,
and now you can think like Me”.

I made you a man, and for your life that's my plan,
In spite of all your confusion,
My way is the perfect way!
I didn't make you to turn out gay!
When the devil tells you different,
Tell him here's what God has to say:

I made you a man, and for your life that's my plan,
There's victory over confusion.
Look to Me and take a stand
as a MAN!

Thanks, Jesus-is-GOD.

I realize what you are saying when you say:

"With the unsaved, Love and gentleness 'is' the best way but I only wanted to say that, there are degrees of sin.

If someone is hurting others - as in children or non-concenting adults, as in rape or any other means of hurting a living creature - even the hurting of animals - now that's when I wouldn't be so gentle."

My normal general manner with the unsaved is kindness, as Jesus showed; however, if someone is carrying their iniquity under a guise of goodness ... a mixture of cold and hot ... I have to start defining things (as Jesus did).

Our society teaches us to accept all people as they are as good fellow human beings because none of us are perfect. The Bible teaches us to accept all people as deplorable wretched, rotten horrible human beings whose only hope is to be redeemed. The humanistic mindset has to be defeated if repentance can take place.

Approved,

I hear what you are saying brother about loving the sinner, and homosexuals know if you truly love them or not. They will not open themseleves up to anyone but those that they know love and care about them.

Speaking the truth in love is the only way that the homosexual is going to be set free, and this is as the Spirit leads. The problem with many Christians and churches is the extremes that they find themselves in. On one hand there are some churches that do teach not only hating the sin but hating the sinner also. On the other end of the spectrum there are churches and Christians that tolearte the sin, and never speak the truth to the one that is in bondage. The stronghold of lies that has been weaved by the enemy in the fabric of every homosexual's life must be pulled down and destroyed by speaking the truth. Only the gospel of Jesus Christ will set the captives free. This is a wonderful gospel, because it not only provides for forgiveness of sin, but also total deliverance from the bondage of sin.

I want to thank you brothers for having the courage to share your testimonies. God has made us new creations in Christ Jesus. The old things have passed away and all things have become new. The old fleshly nature has been crucified with Christ, and now it is no longer I that lives, but Christ lives in me. That fact is what the Holy Spirit is wanting to work out in our lives.

Mike

[by Lordoitagain
I later came to the conclusion and realization that there had been a demon (at least one but probably many more) assigned to from the time I was born with the purpose of destroying what God wanted to do in my life. That is exactly what my wife said to me when I explained all of those struggles to her before we were married.

Can anyone besides Lordoitagain verify this. I can't think of any scriptures on this. Your post here reminds me of something. Thanks.

Lordoitagain,
It was very brave for you to share your testimony. Same goes to Approved.

learn, are you talking about Michael's reference to demon possession?

A little background perhaps may be in order in what I am about to share.

Our pastor used to say this and he still would... In the marriage relationship there is a spiritual dimension that is not fully understood. We know it is there and it operational. It is what binds a couple together. Sexual intercourse will facilitate this event - it is this act where a couple becomes 'one'.

It is also known that when one has sex with a person who is possessed with demons this act will work to transfer demons to the other partner. I had a client whose boyfriend was into the occult, etc...she did not like what he was into but still 'she was with him'. This female carried with her an awful odor - she stank so bad that this odor lingered after she left the building. We did not know the source of it until later we learned that demons sometimes emit a terrible odor.

My point is that since sex involves a spiritual dimension it is not unreasonable at all to believe that its perversion is demonic which is why it is impossible to shake this sin on willpower alone.

No, I have no scriptures to prove what I wrote, but I do know sexual sin is so bad the WORD tells us to "not let it once be named among you." (Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints) While all sin is horrible, no other sin has been singled out like this in its denouncement.

My understanding...

[by ginnyrose on 2012/9/1 7:10:59
learn, are you talking about Michael's reference to demon possession?]

Ginnyrose,
Thks for sharing. I don't think Michael (Lordoitagain) was demon possesed. I think the demons were just around him when he was young? And I suspect God was with him also at the same time (before and after 11 yrs old) although he was not saved yet before 11 years old?

Lordoitagain, can you clarify your childhood? Thks

post reedited for clarity

QUOTE:
" While all sin is horrible, no other sin has been singled out like this in its denouncement."

More on this...

This is NT: "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints.." Eph 5:3

But did you know that in the OT adulterers, homosexuals, people AND animals involved in bestiality were to be killed? There was no sacrifice one could give to atone for this sin? All other sins could be remedied with a sacrifice, but not this. Something to think about.

OT - the law stipulated the capital punishment. In the NT - God says to not let it ONCE be named among you. But He also says this:

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

God is very merciful in our dispensation in that he offers forgiveness. In doing so it means one can be delivered from its snare, its bondage.

God is so good...and people are not.

Thanks Neil! Your post touched my heart. Although I know in Whom I have believed, and I know that I am a new creature in Christ, and it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks about it … still it is comforting to know that there are others who KNOW that Christ makes all things new.

As far as my childhood, and scripture for the issue of demon(s) following me. … Jesus said:

Luc 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Captives … comes from this word:

G164
αἰχμαλωτός aichmalōtos aheekh-mal-o-tos'
Fromαἰχμή aichmē (a spear) and a derivative of the same as G259; properly a prisoner of war, that is, (generally) a captive: - captive.

Maybe something like “held at spear point” or (for our understanding) “held at gunpoint”. When you're held at gunpoint, they can tell you “raise your right hand” and you do it … without thinking … “march forward” … you do it without thinking

A prisoner of war … what war? Who is fighting?

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Here is another one that describes the warfare:

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

There are different spirits of different types of bondage:

Acts 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

When people think of demon activity in a life, they think of the manifestations in the gospels where children fell on the ground frothing at the mouth. In the case of the damsel in Acts 16:16, she obviously didn't do any of that. They wouldn't have had clients.

As a child, I never fell in the floor frothing at the mouth … but I was bound (held at gunpoint) by a spirit that caused me to do things that were not normal. Even after I gave my life to God, that spirit followed me CLAIMING ownership, and there were times when my wobbly faith went through oppressions that affected my actions. There were times when I was going through my normal day, and all of a sudden, my imagination would start carrying me away with some thoughts, and then right in the middle of those thoughts would be suddenly something of that sin. I finally began to realize that those little imagination trips CAME FROM DEMONS, and I would flat-footedly rebuke that wicked spirit.

Do you remember reading where the demons asked Jesus: “Art thou come to torment us before the time?” (Mat. 8:29). I got to where I would start crying out to Jesus (out loud so they could hear me) “Lord torment them before the time, please, send them on to their torment before their allotted time … don't let them torment me again EVER …” Guess what. God hears the earnest desperate cry of his children! Resist the devil and he will flee!

I remember a good illustration that my uncle gave one time: you can have an animal inside an electric fence pen, and you can cut the wires and set him free … and even remove the wires … but still, when he gets close to the place where the wire was in the past, he will often slow down and pull back in fear. That is kind-of how such bondage is. The demons come back flashing their spears and guns “I still own you!”. Later, you learn to LAUGH IN THEIR FACES! NO YOU DON'T, YOU WICKED SPIRIT, JESUS BOUGHT ME!!!

Here's something that I wrote a long time ago, trying to figure out how it all works ...

THE TEMPTATION PROCESS:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

1Ts 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

1Ts 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Ts 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

The Bible teaches in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 that we human beings are made up of 3 parts: spirit, soul and body.

The spirit of man which was made for communion with God, conscience open to God, and intuition from God is dormant or basically dead before a person is converted. The soul of man is made up of the mind, the emotions, and the will of man. The body of man has 5 senses (sound, look, smell, taste, feel) and various appetites which are developed in an effort to gratify those 5 senses which are all connected with the mind and the emotions of the soul.

In their initial state as God created them, such appetites are pure and useful to sustain the body and to continue the human race. Appetites for food and drink and other such substances are for the nutrition of the body that it may be sustained. When handled in a pure and wholesome manner these appetites help to preserve the body. The sexual appetite is for the preservation of the human race. When handled according to God's perfect plan (one man with one woman until death), the human race is preserved by the procreation and family nurturing plan that is perfect and best for all involved. Appetites for possessions which gratify the sight of man on a continual basis are good when handled in a manner of contentment with the basic necessities of life.

Before conversion, an evil spirit works from the inside residing in the soul and body of the person. At an early age, that evil spirit starts influencing how the mind and emotions will react to the stimuli that it comes across in life. At an early age such evil spirit starts twisting and distorting the appetites of the person warping them against God's natural plan, enslaving the individual in misused appetites. Due to the fact that such a twisting of appetites begins at such an early age, the person often concludes that he was created in that fashion, as David put it in Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. We inherited our our weakness and inclination toward sin from our parents (or rather from Adam and Eve), but God never created nor designed anyone to sin.

That evil spirit knows every button to push in the mind and emotions in order to bring about action from the will of the person. Each person is responsible for his own will, but the evil spirit who knows us from an early age knows very well how to influence our will. He knows by heart the mind's entire archive of image files, sound files, smell files, taste files, and feeling files. Over the years, he develops methods with the individual to temporarily gratify the appetites that he has helped to twist and distort against God's perfect plan.

At conversion, the spirit of man comes ALIVE and is in connection with the Spirit of God. At that point, the man chooses to allow his will to be led by the Spirit of God. His conscience alerts him of any possible danger. He is in communion with God continually, and God even gives him an intuition to avoid future dangers and to guide him into all truth. At that point, that evil spirit is abruptly ousted from his soul and body. He no longer has permission to enter, and is refused access to the heart or emotional center of the person.

After conversion, having years of knowledge and experience of all of the files (image data and emotional wiring, etc.) in the mind and having played the emotions like a master musician plays a harp, and having total knowledge of the control panel of the will, after conversion, he works from the outside, trying feverishly to gain control & entrance again.

In the temptation process, that evil spirit has permission to influence the mind and the emotions which are by nature connected to the body, therefore he can even cause the body to react with physical cravings for the sin, but it is up to the person whether we surrender the will in that intense moment. Many, at that point, give in because they consider the effect on the flesh a signal that God no longer resides inside and they go ahead and give way letting their will be controlled again by the evil spirit. On the other hand, if regardless of the outcry of the flesh, they cry out to God in that moment for help, and resist and reject those sinful inclinations of the flesh, God responds from heaven, and gives the POWER to overcome the temptation.

The flesh will ALWAYS have the ability to crave whatever form of perversion that it was introduced to at youth. It has to be crucified by being DENIED access to the pleasure that it craves.

When the will gives permission to the mind & emotions to cooperate with the distorted appetites of the flesh and gratify the flesh with sinful, already stored memories (whether images, tastes, smells, sounds, or feelings), at that point lust has conceived and brought forth sin, even if the physical act hasn't taken place. For example, the person who once was a drunkard is reminded by the evil spirit of the parties that he once participated in. When the evil spirit drags that memory out of the mind's trash, the person can either continue the train of thought and revel in the past, or reject and refuse it, and throw it back in the trash where it belongs. The same is true of whatever inordinate and twisted appetite: sexual sin, covetousness, bitterness, hatred, etc.

When the evil spirit gets new images, or stimuli to work with, he immediately goes to the trash and tries to revive all of the emotional habits of the past, and connect it with the presently offered perversion. For example, a young man who once wallowed in whoredom is in town. A seductively dressed woman passes by. Immediately, the emotions are alerted. Images and feelings of the past are pulled out of the mind's trash by the evil spirit(or his backup copies) and they are all exploding on the forefront of his attention. The body reacts with cravings for the misuse of an appetite that God created for holy and pure use. AT THAT MOMENT, he can choose to continue to look at her and entertain those feelings and thoughts. When he does so, he has sinned (Mat. 5:27-28). OR, he can cry out to God for help, resist those thoughts, and look the OTHER direction. When he does so God is faithful (1Cor.10:13) to give him the power necessary to look the other direction instead of looking upon her to lust after her. Often, the new Christian feels that because of the explosive moment of temptation, and the reaction of the flesh, he has already sinned. NOT SO, if he rejects and refuses the temptation. Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin. He is our example in how that we can reject the temptation and overcome our adversary through His power.

When we are saved, our memory is not erased. Those inordinate and ungodly well formed appetites are still in place for our enemy to try to stimulate (from the outside). As time goes on, and we learn the tactics of our enemy, we learn to immediately reject his temptations, thus continually crucifying the flesh with its affections and lusts, and living and walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

The comforting reality is that after we reject his offers, the evil spirit has to depart for a season. Intense temptation is a passing thing:

Luc 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Another wonderful thing is that when we form the habit of rejecting temptation, the intensity and the attempts of the (once controlling) evil spirit eventually become less frequent, and overcoming becomes a way of life.

Thanks, Approved. Yes, it's copyrighted. Maybe some day I can record it and pass it on to others. GOD GIVES US VICTORY!

I haven't read this entire thing yet I don't think I need to do so either. I wonder though, for those who believe these acts of nature of act of God are in response to sin what can then be said of typhoons which hit the far east. Even as I speak there is a hurricane headed to Bermuda as well. Some hurricanes form and fade away and pose no threat to land at all.

I am wondering why everything, like this, gets spiritualized because it sounds to me it justifies 'something'. I don't know what or maybe it seems to show that God is doing something? And in these cases a judgment? Please enlightenment on this because I really do see through a fog in understand the mindset on this. It is also a reason why many, who are not Christians, look upon Christianity as ridiculous.

John

john this is what i have been saying in this thread. good to meet sum1 who gets it. thats all i will say as this thread got strange once every1 started talking about demons getting transferred from person to person, etc.

skepticguy

I question alot of things myself and I believe it is too easy to call a devil under every rock every time something 'bad' happens. There has to be a balance because I have seen a number of people go nuts thinking 'the devil did it' type of thing while taking no responsibility for their own actions as well. There has to be that balance.

I made another post about psychology and spiritual warfare goes a little further into a similar but different issue.

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