Outward manifestations accompanying Revival!

I have seen a recurring decimal in the history of Revivals with regards to the accompanying outward manifestations and I seek to state them here. So we can find explanations for them even as we prepare for major the Outpourin in the weeks and months ahead.
The same day Revival broke out in Northern Ireland 1859 under d ministry of James Mcquilkin and his Prayer patners, the Prayer meetins in Fulton Street New York under Jeremiah Lamphier also experienced the Blessing.

Also in the 1904/5 Welsh Revival,the same night the break came in Loughor South Wales under Evan Roberts, Dr R.B Jones' voice was drowned out by a simultaneous audible Prayer of the congregation in thE middle of a sermon.
But despite the spontaneity of these outbreaks,a remarkable difference existed in thE intensity of the outward manifestations and Power that prevailed.
Its on record that during the 1859 Awakenning, the physical phenomena accompanying Revivals were very little in the US,almost non existent in Endland and Scotland, but very predominant in Northern Ireland.
Its also on record that the outward phenomena that prevailed in South Wales under Evan Roberts' ministry was far greater than what R.B Jones and other had in the North.
Now what is the common denominator? Could this be another fact of God,s Sovereignty of could it be accurately interpreted.
Now in my opinion,I think this occurence could be inextricably connectEd to the Spirit of Prayer that prevails in a locality relative to the other at the other end of the spectrum.
Its obvious -in my ooinion- that the Spirit of Prayer prEvailed more in Evan Robert's life bofore thE Revival than it did in R.B JonE's. I also feel James Mcquilken and his friends did a far greater knee-work than the noon Prayer meetings of Fulton Street.Hence the Spirit Prayer and d outward phenomena was far predominant in Nothern Ireland 1849.
This is my humble opinion in this matter and I'll like you to let me know your perspective along these lines. uzosikeemyjoe@yahoo.com, on facebook or @ +2348034365429. Bro Emeka Joe Uzosike is a Revival enthusiast and writes rrom the heart of Tropical Africa (Nigeria)

I beg to take exceptions to your opinion Sir, that these Phenomena are extra biblical., not associated with past Revivals and also may bE considered the enemy at work. Obviously Acts S:1-5 and Acts8:7 show that the Apostolic Revival had its own measure of outward phenomena that terrified outsiders. Its also on record that the first outward impact of Pentecost was so much noise enough to gather the whole city of Jerusalem and confound bystanders. Obviously no one would assume that Acts2:6 suggests that the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues in a gentlemanly manner ,conducted themselves with utmost decorum and dignity and still generated enough noice to attract a whole City.
Whereas the influence of d enemy durin Revivals cannot be completely divorced as we saw in Acts8:18-20, even the chaos they seem to create is for the common good.
As touchin the outward Phenomena accompanyin Revivals, Its clear that different people react differently when they're invaded by Divinity since we do not all react simillarly to the same Stimuli.
Afterall, in the Revival that broke out in Ramah under Prophet Samuel,the three detachments of soldiers Saul sent simply prophesied and kept their dignity, yet under simillar stimuli, Saul prophesied as d others did but went further to strip himself and was in coma for 24hours.
So its not fair to divorce outward phenomena completely and label them extra biblical..

If you guys are so sure they are full of devils, why not go cast them out and show some "real" signs and wonders by delivering these poor deceived fellas.

Russell

hi, one thing i know for sure ... if revival breaks forth from God it will be at our place and done our way. many false revivals might come in those other places.jimp

great post jimp!

Russ

I respect all of you but most of you are judging one generation’s standards by your own standards of today. I wasn’t at Azuza Street but neither were you! And what was written about it was "one" persons piece of the pie and how many pieces of the pie is there usually? 8? 12? But I know that God was there and yes, as well as a few evil spirits but does that dismiss what God did? It’s the same thing for the Wales Revival and we all know that God was there too. And it’s even the same for these “other” revivals, God was not 100% absent.

AND I plead with you to not deem something that the Bible is silent on to be “of demons” just because you don’t agree with the practice (i.e. falling in Spirit). We need to tread lightly what we teach others to hate especially when the Bible is silent on it. Far too many people on SI write their own Bibles where the Bible is silent on an issue. Shame on you. It’s pride and vanity.

God said and yet we still do not understand.... For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55.8-9

God bless,
Lisa

I feel so sad to acknowledge that the line of thought had drifted way beyond what I had in mind. Had wanted us to trace d common denominator that defines d intensity of outward manifestations during Revivals. But now we seem to be criticising. This is my first time of chatting in a social media site on an International level tho I'd registerd here for two years. I now know that I assumed some things which I should have clarified. I thnk my use of the Word REVIVAL has put me at variance with some of our brothers due to difference in nomenclature. I was rather taken aback when Brother Greg mentioned the Modern miracle crusades and Tv programs because I cant imagine myself thinkin about Mega miracle/healing crusades when thinking about.They're totally miles apart to me. Also For instance am not used to the word "Real Revival" which our American Brothers use again and again. I understand our brethren in d US had to add d prefix "real" because of what some Pastors there do. As soon as a guest preacher preaches a sensational sermon, d host Pastor rushes to d Press d next day to announce " we're havin a Revival". Am afraid thats not the kind of Revival I recognise.

Can't imagine myself thinkin about Mega miracle /healing crusades when thinking about REVIVAL. They're both miles apart. The one is man made, the other is Divine.

God bless you Sis Lisa. Flesh and Blood had not revealed this unto you...

I've heared that sermon by Brother Wilkerson Sir. He's been a BLESSING to me.

If the scriptures validates your stand that strange outward manifestation are always demonic or for those who're severely backslidden, then I'll find it somethin to worry about since it doesn't sit properly on my mind. I still maintain that the Apostles generated a noise that attracted a crowd. And when those rational humans gathered,what they saw the Apostles do made them conclude that they were drunk.It could be some of the Apostles staggered, while some lay prostrate on the floor thereby showing signs of intoxication. I maintain that had the Apostles simply conducted themselves in a slightly dignified manner while speakin those foreign languages, they won't have generated that noise that attracted the crowd and they wouldn't have been called drunks. The behaviour of the Apostle's was so strange that Peter deemed it necessary to begin his sermon by explaining the phenomena.And no one would say for sure that the Apostles were either demon possessed or "severely backslidden". Even though they'd backslidden at Gethsemane before our Lord's death,the 10 day retreat they'd spent bofore Pentecost should've been enough to revive them. I'd quoted Acts8:18-20 to buttress the point that Sorcerers and Satanists could still stick around durin Revivals. Whether King Saul was in a coma or simply in an unconscious state, the bottom line is that he came in contact with the Revival in Ramah, and the Spirit's impact on him put him in an emotional state or which he had no control whatsoever. If the Spirit did it in Ramah and on Pentecost, He may do it again in our Time.

I sincerely feel we've hyped this matteer of signs and wonders. Thought I won't talk about it again but am forced to ask you my Brother Bearmaster, do you think you can "downplay signs and wonders" and still "stay within the bounds of New Testament scriptures"? Are you referring to the same New TestamEnt which chronicled d accounts of men whose shadows healed the sick and castout demons. Are you really saying you're going to "DOWNPLAY" genuine signs and wonders without qualms as to whose axe is goad, even if you qUench The Spirit in d process?

I don't have time to read all these posts, and scanned Greg's, so hopefully I haven't missed anything important. What I want to say is that I agree with Greg's belief that Saul was knocked off his horse because he was a sinner, and under conviction. We don't know for sure if the disciples were acting drunk or not, scripture doesn't say one way or the other. What I have experienced is an 8 year old girl, who went up for prayer at a children's retreat, and received the Baptism with speaking in tongues. Her friends brought her to me because they were concerned that she couldn't stand up well. She was weaving back and forth as if she was drunk, with a big smile on her face. She knew nothing about what she was supposed to experience before she got prayer. So was this from God? I believe it was.

Evan Roberts book "War on the Saints" co-authored by Jessie Penn-Lewis and "The Spiritual Man" by Watchman Nee are good books on this subject.

God bless you Brother Used4Him for your wonderful contribution especially the story of the little innocent girl whose mind had not been corrupted by our Theology.

She came to the Lord on a "tabula rasa",received the baptism in the Spirit and it made her sway back and forth.

Though her experience is not our standard,afterall -bless her heart- she could've had a demon,but what am sayin is that when The Spirit comes upon a person as He regularly does in Revivals,there could be a physical reaction beyond the individual's power to control.

Whatever form these physical reactions take,whether its falling,rising, crying,shouting, prophesying or "stripping"(King Saul) may differ from person to person.

Like I said earlier, the three detachment of soldiers King Saul sent, came in contact with the Revival in Ramah,and the Spirit's influence on them made them to prophesy and abandon their mission.This to me is a far greater feat than getting someone to "fall under the Anointing" .

I feel this great FEAT deserves more attention than it had enjoyed.I've seen soldiers in our streets in Nigeria and I know it'll take extra terrestial powers to get a soldier- hardened by training and experience -to Prophesy and abandon his mission.

Only The Spirit can do that when He moves in a Revival. That's why am bent on praying for Revival.

If you say Saul was knocked off because because he was a sinner or had a demon,I'd question d wisdom behind his prophesying. Why prophesying -obviously under the influence of the Holy Spirit- instead of recieving deliverance from the demon and forgivenness of sins.

Am increasing aware of the fact that during Revival seasons,The Spirit's influence upon the human mind could be so strong that the individual is led to do things in the natural that they wouldn't ordinarilly do.

I have reasons to believe the Apostles in Upper-room maintained order and decorum because Scriptures say they were sitted, till they lost control to the Rushing Mighty Wind. This made them all to speak in languages obviously unintelligible to any of them and probably at the top of their voices without stopping to follow order,allow one person to speak per time or question what has come over them.

This is the Revival I recognise. When the Spirit takes over and under His genuine influence we lose our self restraints , dignity and PRIDE.

ok a question was art kats possed by demons in this disription of his baptisim in the spirit

I have also been greatly shaped by experiencing the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I once had a great experience, probably the profoundest in God, in preparing the message on mercy. In Ma Brogger’s trailer up at the farm, the Lord lifted the veil, so much as a crack, and beams of light came forth in such a way that I was found two hours later when she returned with a friend, stretched out on the floor, on my face and unable to move. I was surrounded by wads of soaking kleenexes from my tears, and she went right to the phone to call for an ambulance; I could only gesture that it was not necessary, but I could not speak, I was so overcome by the power and the glory that had issued from this little crack of God’s revelation. Finally, they put me up on a seat, and I tried to explain what had happened. It was now time for me to speak, so they wanted to drive me down to the camp. I said that I could not get into a car, nor could I even ride on my bike. I could not touch anything made by man, and I could not even walk down the regular road to the camp; I said that I had to go the back way, so as to not see anyone before I went up onto the platform. That is how profound an experience that was

im sure iv also herd of others who were estemed men of god ,who were out postrait on the ground

johnnathan edwards wife was another

iv read edwards writings about afections of the soul,,he said that slaying in the spirit can and does happan from god spirit

the great vesel in the first great awkening says this

It is a stumbling to some, that religious affections should seem to be so powerful, or that they should be so violent, (as they express it,) in some persons. They are therefore ready to doubt whether it can be the Spirit of God; or, whether this vehemence be not rather a sign of 368 the operation of an evil spirit. But why should such a doubt arise? What is represented in Scripture as more powerful in its effects than the Spirit of God? Which is therefore called “the power of the Highest,” Luke i. 35. and its saving effect in the soul is called “the power of godliness.” So we read of the “demonstration of the Spirit and of power,” 1 Cor. ii. 4. And it is said to operate in the minds of men with the “exceeding greatness of divine power,” and “according to the working of God’s mighty power,” Eph. i. 19. So we read of “the effectual working of his power, ” Eph. iii. 7“. “the power that worketh in Christians, ” Eph. iii. 20. the glorious power of God in the operations of the Spirit, Col. i. 11. In 2 Tim. i. 7. the Spirit of God is called 2 Tim. i. 7. “the Spirit of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”—So the Spirit is represented by a mighty wind, and by fire, things most powerful in their operation. Many are guilty of not taking the Holy Scriptures as a sufficient and whole rule, whereby to judge of this work. They judge by those things which the Scripture does not give as any signs or marks whereby to judge one way or the other, viz. the effects that religious exercises and affections of mind have upon the body. Scripture-rules respect the state of the mind, moral conduct, and voluntary behaviour, and not the physical state of the body. The design of the Scripture is to teach us divinity, and not physic and anatomy. Ministers are made the watchmen of men’s souls, and not their bodies; and therefore the great rule which God has committed into their hands, is to make them divines, and not physicians.—Christ knew what instructions and rules his church would stand in need of, better than we do; and, if he had seen it needful in order to the church’s safety, he doubtless would have given to ministers rules for judging of bodily effects. He would have told them how the pulse should beat under such and such religious exercises of mind; when men should look pale, and when they should shed tears; when they should tremble, and whether or no they should ever be put into convulsions. He probably would have put some book into their hands, that should have tended to make them excellent anatomists and physicians. But he has not done it, because he did not see it to be needful.—He judged, that if ministers thoroughly did their duty as watchmen and overseers of the state and frame of men’s souls, and of their voluntary conduct, according to the rules he had given, his church would be well provided for as to its safety in these matters. And therefore those ministers of Christ, and overseers of souls, who are full of concern about the involuntary motions of the fluids and solids of men’s bodies, and who from thence are full of doubts and suspicions of the cause—when nothing appears but that the state and frame of their minds, and their voluntary behaviour, is good, and agreeable to God’s word—go out of the place that Christ has set them in, and leave their proper business, as much as if they should undertake to tell who are under the influence of the Spirit by their looks, or their gait. I cannot see which way we are in danger, or how the devil is like to get any notable advantage against us, if we do but thoroughly do our duty with respect to those two things, viz. the state of persons’ minds, and their moral conduct; seeing to it that they be maintained in an agreeableness to the rules that Christ has given us. If things are but kept right in these respects, our fears and suspicions arising from extraordinary bodily effects seem wholly groundless. The most specious thing alleged against these extraordinary effects on the body, is, That the body is impaired, and that it is hard to think that God, in the merciful influences of his Spirit on men, would their bodies, and impair their health.

But if it were in multiplied instances (which I do not suppose it is) that persons received a lasting wound to their health by extraordinary religious impressions made upon their minds, yet it is too much for us to determine that God shall never bring an outward calamity, in bestowing a vastly greater spiritual and eternal good. Jacob in doing his duty in wrestling with God for the blessing, and even at the same time that he received the blessing from God, suffered a great outward calamity from his hand. God gave him the blessing, but sent him away halting on his thigh, and he went lame all his life after. And yet this is not mentioned as if it were any diminution of the great mercy of God to him, when God blessed him, and he received his name Israel, because as a prince he had power with God, and had prevailed.

But, say some, The operations of the Spirit of God are of a benign nature; nothing is of a more kind influence on human nature than the merciful breathings of God’s own Spirit. But it has been generally supposed and allowed in the church of God, till now, that there is such a thing as being sick of love to Christ, or having the bodily strength weakened by strong and vigorous exercises of love to him. And however kind to human nature the influences of the Spirit of God are, yet nobody doubts but that divine and eternal things, as they may be discovered, would overpower the nature of man in its present weak state; and that therefore the body, in its weakness, is not fitted for the views, and pleasures, and employments of heaven. Were God to discover but a little of that which is seen by saints and angels in heaven, our frail natures would sink under it. Let us rationally consider what we profess to believe of the infinite greatness of divine wrath, divine glory, the divine infinite love and grace in Jesus Christ, and the infinite importance of eternal things; and then how reasonable it is to suppose, that if God a little withdraw the veil, to let light into the soul—and give a view of the great things of another world in their transcendent and infinite greatness—that human nature, which is as the grass, a shaking leaf, a weak withering flower, should totter under such a discovery! Such a bubble is too weak to bear a weight so vast. Alas! What is man that he should support himself under a view of the awful wrath or infinite glory and love of jehovah! No wonder therefore that it is said, Exodus xxi. 20 “No man can see me and live;” and, 1 Corinthians xv. 50. “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” That external glory and majesty of Christ which Daniel saw, when “there remained no strength in him, and his comeliness was turned in him into corruption,” Dan. x. 6-8. and which the apostle John saw, when he fell at his feet as dead; was but a shadow of that spiritual majesty of Christ which will be manifested in the souls of the saints in another world, and which is sometimes, in a degree, manifested to the soul in this world. And if beholding the image of this glory did so overpower human nature, is it unreasonable to suppose that a sight of the spiritual glory itself should have as powerful an effect? The prophet Habakkuk, speaking of the awful manifestations God made of his majesty and wrath, at the Red sea, and in the wilderness, and at mount Sinai, where he gave the law; and of the merciful influence and strong impression God caused it to have upon him, to the end that he might be saved from that wrath, and rest in the day of trouble; says, Hab. iii. 16. “When I heard, my belly trembled, my lips quivered at the voice, rottenness entered into my bones. I trembled in myself that I might rest in the day of trouble.”. This is an effect similar to what the discovery of the same majesty and wrath has had upon many in these days; and to the same purposes, viz. to give them rest in the day of trouble, and save them from that wrath. The psalmist also speaks of such an effect as I have often on persons under religious affections of late, Psal. cxix. 131.

God is pleased sometimes, in dealing forth spiritual blessings to his people, in some respects to exceed the capacity of the vessel in its present scantiness; so that he not only fills it, but makes their cup to run over; Psal. xxiii. 5.) and pours out a blessing, sometimes, in such manner and measure that there is not room enough to receive it. (Mal. iii. 10.) He gives them riches more than they can carry away; as he did to Jehoshaphat and his people in a time of great favour, by the word of his prophet Jahaziel in answer to earnest prayer, when the people blessed the Lord in the valley of Berachah, 2 Chron. xx. 25, 26. It has been with the disciples of Christ, for a long season, a time of great emptiness on spiritual accounts. They have gone hungry, and having been toiling in vain, during a dark night with the church of God; as it was with the disciples of old, when they had toiled all night for something to eat, and caught nothing, Luke v. 5. And John xxi. 3. But now, the morning being come, Jesus appears to his disciples, and 369 takes a compassionate notice of their wants, and says to them, Children, have ye any meat? And gives some of them such abundance of food, that they are not able to draw their net; yea, so that their vessel is overloaded, and begins to sink; as it was with the disciples of old, Luke v. 6,7. and John xxi. 6.

We cannot determine that God never shall give any person so much of a discovery of himself, not only as to weaken their bodies, but to take away their lives. It is supposed by very learned and judicious divines, that Moses’ life was taken away after this manner; and this has also been supposed to be the case with some other saints. Yea, I do not see any solid sure grounds any have to determine, that God shall never make strong impressions on the mind by his Spirit, that shall be an occasion of so impairing the frame of the body, that persons shall be deprived of the use of reason. As I said before, it is too much for us to determine that God will not bring an outward calamity in bestowing spiritual and eternal blessings; so it is too much for us to determine how great an outward calamity he will bring. If God gives a great increase of discoveries of himself, and of love to him, the benefit is infinitely greater than the calamity, thought the life should presently after be taken away; yea, though the soul should lie for years in a deep sleep, and then be taken to heaven: or, which is much the same thing, if it be deprived of the use of its faculties, and be as inactive and unserviceable, as if it lay in a deep sleep for some years, and then should pass into glory

anyone interested in reading the whole thred i bumped it in the articals and sermons sections ,,

but ijust relised i can post the link

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41909&post_id=334509&order=1&viewmode=flat&pid=303901&forum=34#334509

God bless you Brother Gary. I recieved Your line of thought hook,line and sinker. I'd come back online in the next few hours and take time to copy your write up into my diary word for word. It'll take me time and energy since I browse with a phon but I'll be better for it. Or Better stil, if you can forward it to my email uzosikeemyjoe@yahoo.com, I wil be grateful. Wil then print it anyday I go to d cybercafe. Thanks for going out of ur way to rightly divide d Word of Truth. I can only praise God who's given such gifts to the Sons of Men. Bro Emeka Joe Uzosike writes from d Heart of tropical Africa (Nigeria)

I have seen outward manifestations of many kinds.

Some were of the flesh. The particular part of the body had developed a culture in which certain manifestations were "expected" to happen by past experience or by the culture. So, people "manifest" of their own flesh, sometimes convinced that it has something to do with the Spirit of God. These manifestations range from a certain "tic" during worship as a particular hand motion during worship to falling "under the power".

Some were, I believe, of the enemy. In such cases I had a very strong witness of the Holy Spirit that what was happening was not God. In most of these cases the fellowships has other things that were way off base as well.

Some were of God. For instance, a pastor friend of mine had a young lady, deaf from birth, fall unconscious on a concrete floor as he prayed for her. When she hit, she bounced. He said it was quite alarming. Soon she rose in wonderment as she, for the first time in her life, heard sounds. I have seen miraculous healing. I have seen almost all of the gifts of the Spirit in operation. I have seen people "fall out" when it was genuine.

There is a movement in the body right now that seeks to focus heavily on signs and wonders. I am of the opinion, quite strongly, that this movement is off base and is not going to yield good fruit in the end. I say this because the focus is on the signs and the wonders and on prophecy, and not on Christ. Any time we turn our gaze, even one degree, from Jesus Christ, we will eventually wind up deceived in some area of our life. We will wander from sound doctrine and begin chasing after things that appeal to the flesh of man rather than the spirit.

I am all for signs and wonders, prophecy, and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit. But I am not all for them as the focus of the Christian life. I am for running hard after Jesus Christ, being firmly rooted and grounded in the Word of God, and filled with the Holy Spirit so that the dunimas power of God is active in my life. And as a result, that I might be used of Him to be used in any way He desires. I believe that legitimate signs and wonders will follow me as I run after Him and am used of Him to minister to others.

Amen to your post Brother Greg, I posted the name of that book because I noticed some talking of and desiring the experience of Evan Roberts and I don't think they are aware of what he learned in that Revival with Mrs. Penn-Lewis.
Nevertheless, the Lord Jesus used that book as light to deliver me. It was a tough and very dark road at first, though I had not had any Charismatic influence at the time, and my heart was to be truly surrendered to the Lord in all things, in my ignorance and being young in my walk I fell into "passivity of my body" and strange and confusing manifestations started happening apart from exercising my will and reasoning powers and sound judgment, which the Holy Spirit ALWAYS expects us to exercise in agreement with Himself.
Nevertheless, the Lord gave me "War on the Saints" and the deliverance process started, when light was given the enemy multiplied the attack. One thing I learned is that the enemy hates to be exposed, he would rather "look like God" and show up as an "angel of light" than to be exposed as he really is, as the "usurper of the throne". I was also able to speak with Stephen Kaung, briefly at this time and he was very helpful to me to not let the book cause me to be too introspective and cause me to not look up to the Throne, which a younger believer may have a tendency to do in reading that book. Anyways, it was tremendously helpful and the Lord was faithful.
I won't go into any more detail here but perhaps we can chat about that the next time we talk. I've never really talked about that to anyone who understood. I have also noticed that those of the modern Charismatic movement absolutely do not like to talk about or even hear about the Lord Jesus delivering someone from counterfeit manifestations from evil spirits. And the average fundamentalist doesn't seem to believe much in experiencing the presence of God, therefore they don't pay much attention to the true or the false, or else they call the true false.
God bless you Brother,
Rich

i was interted what the modertors and greg think of arts kats experance of losing self control ,this quote from an interview gos like this ,,,,,this is the seconed time im posting this ,this seems to contradict the idea that god always is gentile and gives self controle ,,,,,i find it strange that this is being ignored by people who are againsts this type of manfestation ,because art kats is highly estemed by the moderators

I have also been greatly shaped by experiencing the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I once had a great experience, probably the profoundest in God, in preparing the message on mercy. In Ma Brogger’s trailer up at the farm, the Lord lifted the veil, so much as a crack, and beams of light came forth in such a way that I was found two hours later when she returned with a friend, stretched out on the floor, on my face and unable to move. I was surrounded by wads of soaking kleenexes from my tears, and she went right to the phone to call for an ambulance; I could only gesture that it was not necessary, but I could not speak, I was so overcome by the power and the glory that had issued from this little crack of God’s revelation. Finally, they put me up on a seat, and I tried to explain what had happened. It was now time for me to speak, so they wanted to drive me down to the camp. I said that I could not get into a car, nor could I even ride on my bike. I could not touch anything made by man, and I could not even walk down the regular road to the camp; I said that I had to go the back way, so as to not see anyone before I went up onto the platform. That is how profound

I'm not a moderator, nor can I speak for them, but I have never read or heard them speak anything against experiencing God's presence such as Brother Katz did, nor have I heard them speak against a true manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
I think the point is that seeking signs and wonders or some experience and not the Lord Himself is likely to get someone deceived. And the false is way more prevalent in what is "seen" of the eyes of men than a simple walk by pure faith. Certainly there are true experiences and just as true there are false ones. Those of the large crowd seeking signs and wonders are likely to be or are already deceived by signs and wonders that are not of God. Even Jesus Himself said that. The very ones that seek after these signs and wonders do not see with the "eye of faith" for they walk by "sight", lacking in faith, missing the greater miracles of the Lord who heals all our spiritual diseases, fevers, and palsies, and being "bent double", with an infirmity that had our faces "earth bound", is able to stand us up with our affections set on things above, not on things on earth.
I saw nothing in Brother Katz testimony where it shows any lack of self control or anything where his bodily movements were not sound or against his will, he had no bodily movements. I can identify with the presence of God being so powerful that it seems we simply seem to not move, but simply lay there "as dead", but that is not something against the will. Furthermore, one could even seek Art Katz' experience and get deceived, my recommendation for those who would desire the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is to NOT seek Art Katz' experience, but to seek his Lord.

i agree with you ,,but if one doesnt have the control over his body and needed somebody to pick them up off the ground , i think that is laking in a little self control ,,,dont get me wrong im not saying its not a reaction he got from the spirit ,,,,eary in theis thread im sure people were spekng againts this type of manifestation
but brother it would be bias to rule out bodly movements like tremblings and shakings ,,weasly saw these happen ,so did edwards and whitfield ,,and so did other proment men of faith filled revivles

i think history of revivles shows that the true and false manfestations are similar

edwards wrote much about what he concidered bodly manfestations that were reactions to the spirit ,,and this saint was used dare i say humbley more then all of us here moderators included ,,so it would be hard for the averge christan to not take him seriously

in charles finneys biography he talks of a chap an elder able clary who when the spirit of prayer and suplication would come upon him he often would not have the control over his legs to stand ,but would be on the ground writhing ,in agony ,making grones

d,l moody ,,lost control of his legs when he was baptised in the spirit ,and held on to a pole so he never fell over

self control ,is an obvious issue in many many instances

blessings ,brother

Thanks Brother Gary for your comments. Especially the first one which I feel was a "classic." Didnt know this our debate would've continued after your first comment. Am gettin concerned that we may leave d weghtier matters of prayin for Revival and dwell on d triviliaties like "manifestations."

sonsoflevi said: seeking signs and wonders and not the lord will likely get someone deceived. i could not agree more. we must seek to know the lord. it must be the absolute central goal. Greg's post of the article by poonen was spot on. when the things of god be it ministry or miracles or provision or even church meetings become or focus, our eyes are no longer on Jesus and we begin a walk in the wrong direction. if we continue we find ourselves further and further from the truth. i know of a young man caught up in the prophetic movement and signs and wonders who came to say the Bible was a good guidebook as far add that goes but what we really need are direct words from good. now i have and do have god speak to me as all believers can and should. but the next step in this young mans path could very well be deception by a spirit other than god. miracles signs wonders and prophecy are tools that the matter uses to accomplish his purposes. we focus on the lord and allow him to use the tools. but to focus on the tools?

The Great Awakening was a revival in which manifestations were a common occurence. One of the major theologians that was highly respected at that time, Charles Chauncy, apposed the Great Awakening calling it "religious enthusiasm". He did this because he did not believe that the manifestations that were taking place were of God. He was paritally right, because there were some such as James Davenport that went to the extreme of making manifestations the proof of one's salvation.

Jonathan Edwards, who defended the Great Awakening, wrote much on the manifestations and to sum it up, he implied that the manifestations were not to be taken as proof or disproof that the work was of God.

Many of the great revivals throughout history were apposed by the religious leaders of their day. It was the men that were well versed in the scriptures that in general criticized the revivals.

In every true revival there is to be found the true work of the Spirit of God, the work of evil spirits that would attempt to sidetrack the move of God, and the work of the flesh. One of the major errors has been to not discern the difference.

Mike

Thanks Bro Greg for postin d link to Evan Robert's book.

Have been there and saw its d whole book. Thought its just a page or two. Will go back and take time to study it thoroughly.

Bro SonsofLevi feels that book should serve as a caution for me in desiring Evan Roberts' experience. Whereas I feel Bro SonsofLevi cautions me out of Love and genuine concern, I'd want to kno Evan's Roberts' stand in all these.

Would want to kno if he (Evan Roberts) realized that the supposed "Revival" was a farce and a work of d Devil. I'll read d book to see d page where Evan Roberts wil tell me that Satan helpd him pioneer that Revival and therefor would want me not to pursue and pray for a Revival. (Am sorry am talkin like this).

If Evan Roberts' discovery had been that there were a lot of counterfeit manifestations durin dat Great Revival, then its perfectly ok. In fact, I'd have been surprised if there weren't any counterfeit manifestations and amazed if he didnt discover it.

D devil I kno has never allowd God to enjoy all d attention without coming up some form of distraction.

In Mark1:21-25, our Lord was enjoyin all d attention but d devil wil have none of such attention go by default. Apostle Paul had it with d Slave girl and Moses had it with d magicians in Egypt.

So who said Evan Roberts' discovery of d enemy's counterfeit durin d Revival means the Welsh Revival of 1904/5 must be dismissed in its entirety as a farce.

I love you Brother Sonsoflevi and I want you to know that I understand your genuine concerns for me. I also understand that we must not all agree in doctrine.
Afterall, some must be Apostles to d Jews while some Apostles to d gentiles. But the One must not deny the other his right hand of fellowshp.

Though in ideals, principles and doctrines we may be as separate as our fingers, lets remain as united as d hand in all things essential to our mutual progress.

Sorry for my poor tenses. Should've told you English is not my mother tongue. Once teased an American that I deserve to be treated with a smile each time I successfully communicate an idea in simple English. +2348034365429.
God Bless you Sir!

Brother "endlessjoe",
I think you desire a good thing in desiring revival, you will be glad to see that Evan Roberts and Mrs. Penn-Lewis testify that the Welsh Revival was of God, but I think it will be of high spiritual benefit to study the book and see for yourself what all the Lord taught them concerning true and false manifestations during and after that revival. It will only serve to increase in discerning between the two. And may the Lord bless you, as well, my friend.

Brothagary,
I don't doubt the experiences that you just spoke of, I just think there is a huge difference in "losing our own strength" or "being powerless" in and of ourselves, and losing self-control. Loss of physical strength and the body moving uncontrollably are quite opposite.

hi endless joe ,that link you have for your email doesnt seem to work

and i think when you mentiones my coment being a clasic ,,you speaking about johnathen edwards clasic writings on the first great awkening ,i just cut and pasted form a thred i posted monthes ago that had no responces ,,blessings to all

endless joe english is my mother toung ,and your english is better then mine ,,dont be ashamed at that brother

i came a cross an artical that mentined some of the people that are being spoken of here ,and raises the same conserns that are raised here ,,,permit me brothrs to post it ,its seems to have all the refrences to suport the quotes and implications

Supernatural Physical Manifestations in the Evangelical and Holiness Revival Movements

by Paul L. King, D.Min., Th.D., Oral Roberts University

Presented at the 32nd Society of Pentecostal Studies/Wesleyan Theological Society. Joint Conference, March 21, 2003. History Interest Group

With the phenomena associated with the "Toronto Blessing," the Pensacola/ Brownsville revival, and the ministry of Rodney Howard-Browne, such as falling under the power of the Spirit, trembling, holy laughter, etc., people have tended to either completely accept or completely reject all such phenomena. However, when we study the history of the church, in particular the evangelical and holiness movements of the eighteenth to early twentieth centuries, we see that many of these manifestations have occurred in these movements, but such phenomena were neither accepted out of hand, nor dismissed summarily. As an ordained minister with the Christian and Missionary Alliance (C&MA) who also serves on the faculty of Oral Roberts University, through this study I desire to provide a bridge and a buffer between the evangelical/holiness and the Pentecostal/charismatic camps. This study explores the experiences of evangelical and holiness revivals, and how such manifestations were viewed.

Falling Under the Power of the Spirit

The phenomenon of falling under the power of the Spirit occurred in the revivals of Jonathan Edwards. His assessment was that a person may "fail bodily strength" due to fear of hell and the conviction by the Holy Spirit or due to a "foretaste of heaven."1 John Wesley recognized falling to the ground as a manifestation from God, and records many such instances in his ministry. In fact, George Whitefield criticized Wesley for permitting the phenomena until it began happening in his own meetings.2 The Kentucky revivals of 1800-1801, which involved Baptists, Methodists and Presbyterians, was replete with similar demonstrations.3 In the early 1800s, the revivals led by Methodist circuit riding preacher Peter Cartwright (who was converted in the Kentucky revivals) were often accompanied by people falling under God's power, including some Baptists.4 Finney's ministry also frequently manifested fainting or swooning, what he called "falling under the power of God."5 The Welsh revival of 1859 was accompanied by swooning as "waves of power often overwhelmed" people.6 In the 1860s, Andrew Murray's church started to speak out against people who began to shout and cry and swoon in a revival in his church, until a visitor from America told him about similar manifestations in American revivals.7 Decades before holiness evangelist Maria Woodworth-Etter's involvement in the Pentecostal revival, many people in her meetings fell under the power of the Spirit, including Carrie Judd (Montgomery), an early leader in the C&MA.8 Moody's associate R.A. Torrey testified of people falling under the power of God due to conviction of sin.9 Torrey himself fell under power of the Spirit when baptized with the Holy Spirit.10 Presbyterian missionary Jonathan Goforth makes reference in his book By My Spirit to the phenomenon occurring in his revivals.11

Instances of falling under the power of the Spirit also occurred periodically at C&MA meetings for two decades before Azusa Street. In 1885 A.B. Simpson, the founder of the C&MA, received what we would call today a "word of knowledge" that someone was resisting the Lord. A woman responded, saying it was her. She came forward, and as Simpson anointed her for healing, she was overcome, falling under the power of the Spirit seemingly unconscious for about half an hour, and she received a healing.12 In 1897 at a joint C&MA/Mennonite camp meeting in Allentown, Pennsylvania, C&MA General Field Supt. Dean Peck preached six services in three days and described: "At service after service . . . I saw people fall as dead under the power of God." He said it was a genuine revival from God and talked about such things happening among the Methodists 50-60 years ago, but are not frequent now because many revivals are of human manufacture.13 Manifestations of falling also occurred during the 1907 revival at Simpson's Gospel Tabernacle, apparently with his approval.14 Presbyterian Greek professor T. J. McCrossan, who joined C&MA in 1923, while serving as interim president of Simpson Bible Institute, wrote in his book Bodily Healing and the Atonement: "Hundreds are healed, who do not fall under this power, because they simply trust God's promises; and it is the prayer of faith that heals. Going under this power seems, however, to bring an extra spiritual blessing. . . . This power is not hypnotism. . . . This is not devil power."15 McCrossan spoke out of the experience of his own life, for not only did he frequently assist Charles Price in laying hands on the sick with people falling, but he himself fell under God's power and was enraptured with visions when he was baptized in the Spirit in 1921 through Price's ministry.16

Holy Laughter

Holy laughter also occurred in early evangelical and holiness circles. Jonathan Edwards describes the reaction of some who were converted in the Great Awakening revival: "Their joyful surprise has caused their hearts as it were to leap, so that they have been ready to break forth into laughter, tearing often at the same time issuing like a flood, and intermingling a loud weeping."17 E. M. Bounds records Wesley saying, "The power of God came mightily upon us, so that many cried out for exceeding joy, and many fell to the ground."18 Charles Finney wrote that after he testified about his experience of being baptized in the Spirit, a usually serious elder of his church "fell into a most spasmodic laughter. It seemed as if it was impossible for him to keep from laughing from the very bottom of his heart."19

Jessie Penn-Lewis recounts manifestations of holy laughter and being drunk in the Spirit taking place during the Australian Keswick Convention of 1891:

The Convention was marked by clean-cut surrender to God for all His will to be done at all costs, and by an overflowing joy which followed in hundreds of hearts, so that, as Mr. George Soltau wrote, "Literally 'our mouths were filled with laughter and our tongues with singing'. . . . It was impossible to restrain one's heart, the Lord giving us such a foretaste of heaven. Talk of "fleshly excitement," I wish to bear my testimony that it was nothing less than the fulness of the Spirit. We were verily drunk with the joy of the Lord, and with the vistas of the possibilities of faith opening up to the fully surrendered life of the believer. But it was equally manifest to us all that this joy and blessing is only to be received and retained and increased by the death to self and of self and the most painful crucifixion of self.20

In 1897 A.B. Simpson wrote that one of the effects of being filled with the Spirit is "fullness of Joy so that the heart is constantly radiant. This does not depend on circumstances, but fills the spirit with holy laughter in the midst of the most trying surroundings."21 Simpson himself records in his diary on September 12, 1907, that he experienced holy laughter for more than an hour.22

Oswald Chambers also recorded in his diary on April 19, 1907: "Last night we had a blessed time. I was called down by the teachers to pray and anoint a lady who wanted healing, and as we were doing it God came so near that upon my word we were laughing as well as praying! How utterly stilted we are in our approach to God. Oh that we lived more up to the light of all our glorious privileges."23 Chambers evidently believed that laughter could be a sign of revival and, like Simpson, a result of the baptism in the Spirit.24

Praying John Hyde, the great intercessor and missionary to China also experienced holy laughter in the summer of the same year. His companion relates of a low caste Punjabi intercessor:

How often has G_____, after most awful crying seemed to break through the hosts of evil and soar up into the presence of the Father! You could see the smile of God reflected in his face. Then he would laugh aloud in the midst of his prayer. It was the joy of a son reveling in the delight of his father's smile. God has been teaching John [Hyde] and me that his name is the God of Isaac—laughter. . . . Rejoicing, laughing, the same word as Isaac. This holy laughter seemed to relieve the tension and give Heaven's own refreshment to wrestling spirits."25

Even C&MA leader A. W. Tozer also spoke positively of holy laughter:

Now I say that worship is subject to degrees of perfection and intensity. There have been those who worshiped God to the place where they were in ecstasies of worship. I once saw a man kneel at an altar, taking Communion. Suddenly he broke into holy laughter. This man laughed until he wrapped his arms around himself as if he was afraid he would bust just out of sheer delight in the presence of Almighty God. . . . So worship is capable of running from the very simple to the most intense and sublime.26

Spontaneously Dancing for Joy

During the Welsh revival of 1859, "many leaped and danced in the exuberance of their rapture."27 Sometimes related to the laughing phenomenon is a spontaneous dancing for joy. Praying Hyde, a staid Presbyterian, is described after a time of intense prayer at the Sialkot Convention (similar to Keswick), "He begins to sing, 'Tis done, the great transaction's done,' and he is so full of joy that his whole body begins to move, he claps his hands, then his feet begin to move, and look! he begins to dance for joy, and others join him until the whole place rings with God's praises."28 Such dancing also occurred upon occasion in C&MA meetings. Simpson writes of an African-American C&MA meeting he visited in 1895: "We witnessed a sacred dance by about fifty of the women." They swayed and moved arms and feet, keeping time to the music. "The effect was truly grand."29 As Vinson Synan notes, for some holiness groups, spontaneous dance or holy laughter was considered an evidence of Holy Spirit baptism.30

Physical Sensations

Such manifestations of laughing or falling were sometimes accompanied by unusual bodily sensations. Charles Finney avowed his baptism in the Spirit was "like a wave of electricity, going through and through me."31 Early C&MA pastor Dr. E. D. Whiteside's testimony of healing in 1888 included both physical sensations and falling under the power of the Spirit: "Like a flash of electricity, I was instantly thrilled. Every point of my body and nerves was controlled by a strange sensation that increased in volume, until I bowed lower and lower to the floor. I was filled with the ecstatic thrill. My physical frame was unable to stand the strain."32 Reminiscent of holy laughter, he reported that he felt he was on the verge of "dying from overjoy."33 The C&MA journals record many instances of physical sensations like heat, electrical shocks or bright lights accompanying healing.34

Trembling, Shaking, and Convulsions, Strange Sounds and Behavior

Along with swooning, such phenomena as trembling, shaking and convulsions occurred in the ministry of Jonathan Edwards and the Great Awakening. Quakers received their name because they shook. At the outset of the Welsh revival of 1904, Evan Roberts experienced the manifestation of shaking on several occasions: "In the spring of 1904, Evan found himself, as it were, on the Mount of Transfiguration. In his own home and out on the countryside, his loving Heavenly Father revealed Himself to His child in an amazing overwhelming manner which filled his soul with divine awe. At these special seasons, every member of his body trembled until the bed was shaken."35

A more intense form of trembling or shaking is a convulsing or jerking of the body in contortions, characteristic of some under intense conviction. Jonathan Edwards described a child in this condition, "She continued crying, and writhing her body to and fro, like one in anguish of spirit."36 Speaking of the revival of 1740-1742, Edwards writes, "It was a very frequent thing to see a house full of outcries, faintings, convulsions, and such like, both with distress, and also with admiration and joy."37

Sometimes strange sounds accompanied some of these manifestations, such as groaning or weeping. A companion of Praying Hyde relates of Hyde and the Punjab Prayer Convention of 1906 (similar to Keswick), "We began to pray, and suddenly the great burden of that soul was cast upon us, and the room was filled with sobs and cries for one whom most of us had never seen or heard of before. Strong men lay on the ground groaning in agony for that soul."38 In 1902, after being anointed by C&MA pastor Peter Zimmerman, a woman who had been an invalid for 18 years received a gradual healing over three days accompanied by jerking sensations. She described it as, "The quickening power of God began to come into my body until it seemed every bone in my body would unjoint. . . . For weeks I felt the quickening power four or five times a day, until I became strong in body."39

These types of phenomena also occurred in the ministries of Finney and Wesley and other holiness groups, as well as Pentecostals.40 In holiness and some Pentecostal circles some of these manifestations were regarded as the work of the Holy Spirit, others of the flesh, and still others as demonic in origin.41

Trances, Visions, and Dreams

Trances, visions, and dreams occurred frequently in early Methodist camp meetings, and in Maria Woodworth-Etter's meetings, as well as other denominations and movements.42 Presbyterian missionary Praying Hyde, it is recorded, "began to have visions of the glorified Christ as a Lamb on His throne—suffering such infinite pain for and with His suffering Body on earth."43 Torrey recalled that a man praying for revival in Australia saw a prophetic vision of crowds of people coming to hear Torrey speak.44 Street evangelist Jerry McAuley experienced a trance and a vision that led to his founding of a rescue mission.45 Prophecies and visions were also features of the Welsh revival.46 Amy Carmichael, Anglican Keswick missionary to India, also received prophetic dreams and visions.47 Likewise, Charles Spurgeon recognized the validity of dreams and visions from the Lord.48 His friend and colleague, F.B. Meyer, a Baptist Keswick leader, also recounted a vision.49

Such manifestations occurred in the early C&MA as well. In fact, the missions emphasis of the C&MA was established on Simpson's response to a vivid dream in which he awoke trembling.50 In 1883 early C&MA leader John Cookman had an experience in which "the Lord appeared to him in a vision, and said, 'I am thy Healer, thy Sanctifier, thy Savior, and thy Lord.'"51 C&MA missionary statesman Robert Jaffray experienced several dreams with strong impressions from the Lord.52 Visions preceding or accompanying healing were not uncommon in the ministry of A.B. Simpson and the early C&MA.53

But Not All Such Manifestations Are from God

On the other hand, not all such physical manifestations were automatically accepted among holiness leaders and some Pentecostals to be a result of the Spirit's workings.54 Classic evangelical and holiness leaders understood that God can lead by impressions, visions, and revelations, but they needed to be tested.55 Moravian leader Count Zinzendorf, who was open to supernatural movings of the Holy Spirit, witnessed a man falling into an "inspired fit, jerking and convulsing, and prophesying. Zinzendorf did not hesitate to reject the inspiration."56 John Wesley's counsel was: "Do not hastily ascribe things to God. Do not easily suppose dreams, voices, impressions, visions, or revelations to be from God. They may be from Him. They may be from Nature. They may be from the devil. Therefore believe not every spirit, but 'try the spirits whether they be from God.'"57 Even though people fell under God's power in Cartwright's meetings, he also discerned false falling, visions and trances.58

Evangelical and holiness leaders recognized that some laughter is"fleshly excitement" and some may even be demonically inspired. John and Charles Wesley discerned that some manifestations were unholy laughter.59 In 1912, Jessie Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts in their book War on the Saints also write of demonical inspired laughter with twisting and jerking.60 Even Catholic exorcists have cautioned that the devil may cause laughter to distract and disrupt.61

Peter Cartwright regarded the jerking movements in his meetings as the judgment of God or fleshly manifestations of superstitious people, which would subside through fervent prayer. Likewise, he considered manifestations such as jumping, barking and other wild exercises, often accompanied by falling, visions, or trances, to be delusions.62

Evan Roberts and Jessie Penn-Lewis comment, "No one can with safety accept all the supernatural manifestations which accompany Revival, or believe all seeming 'Pentecostal power' to be of God."63 They recognized that gifts of the Spirit such as prophecy, healing, and tongues could be genuine or false, saying that counterfeit tongues were only a fraction of the counterfeit manifestations.64 They cautioned, "Counterfeit manifestations of the Divine life in various ways now follow quickly; movements in the body, pleasant thrills, touches, as glow as of fire in different parts of the body, or sensations of cold, or shakings and tremblings, all of which are accepted as from God."65 However, they did not dismiss all such manifestations as demonic, for Roberts himself experienced some of these manifestations authentically during the Welsh revival, and was by experience able to recognize the counterfeit.66 Pentecostals like Carrie Judd Montgomery warned about unusual phenomena and motions which have been accepted in some Pentecostal circles are really a form of witchcraft.67

Many animal-like sounds and behavior have been recognized throughout church history as demonic.68 Such exhibitions were often considered demonic, both by Pentecostals and non-Pentecostal holiness people. A.B. Simpson, who believed in supernatural gifts and manifestations, nonetheless observed, "There have been many instances where [seeking for] the gift of tongues led the subjects and the audiences in to the wildest excesses and were accompanied with voices and actions more closely resembling wild animals than rational beings, impressing the unprejudiced observers that it was the work of the devil."69 Paul Rader, pastor of Moody Memorial Church and President of the C&MA after Simpson's death, writes of casting out a demon from a man who came down the aisle of Moody Church barking like a dog.70 Pentecostal leader Charles Parham also described as demonic manifestations of barking like a dog, braying like a donkey, and crowing like a rooster, and contortions and fits.71 Woodworth-Etter admonished to "try the spirits," citing a woman who "commenced to go about on her knees, twisting about like a serpent" and speaking in tongues. She said, "Everyone knew it was not of God," and that the devil had gotten hold of her.72

That is not to say that in every instance animal-like sounds and behavior are demonic. They may be of the flesh, or they may be a response to something God is doing in a person—like the unutterable groanings of Romans 8:26-27. Cartwright described a man who "roared like a bull in a net" under the conviction of the Holy Spirit.73 The phenomena may even be misinterpreted by observers. A colleague of this writer who is a researcher of the Campbellite/Christian church movement determined through his research on the 1801 Cane Ridge revival that what was reported by the media as "barking up a tree" and "treeing the devil" was, in reality, people under such conviction and emotional distress that they were heaving and groaning in such a manner that it sounded like barking and all the while feeling faint so that they were holding themselves up against a tree.74

This calls for caution in automatically branding all such phenomena as demonic. There may be occasions in which sounds are made that are from the heart and soul that cannot be articulated clearly, which may fall under the category of "groanings too deep for words" (Rom. 8:26). Nonetheless, the preponderance of evidence would indicate that the vast majority of such animal-like manifestations are either demonically inspired or originate in the flesh. Those which are demonic in nature may be Satanic counterfeits meant to deceive, or they may be already existing demonic influences being exposed or brought to the surface by the moving of the Holy Spirit in revival, like a birddog flushing out a pheasant.

Conclusion

These are just a sampling of the occurrences of such manifestations in evangelical and holiness movements. Supernatural physical manifestations such as holy laughter, falling under the power of the Spirit, shaking, etc., have occurred outside of Pentecostal and charismatic circles among holiness and evangelical movements in the eighteenth, nineteenth, and early twentieth centuries, hence, both prior to and simultaneously with the Pentecostal movement. My own study of John Wesley's journal has turned up numerous instances of dreams, visions, trances, falling, trembling, voices and heavenly sounds.75 My research of Christian and Missionary Alliance history has discovered in the period of time before the Azusa Street revival that references to charismatic phenomena before Azusa Street in C&MA and other holiness and evangelical groups included: 36 visions, 15 dreams, 16 records of falling under power of Spirit (sometimes masses of people), 3 occasions of sacred dance, 11 instances of shaking or trembling, 10 testimonies of electrical-like shocks, and 9 records of holy laughter.76 Further, these phenomena occurred among many denominations, including Methodist, Baptist, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Campbellite/Christian, Episcopalian, Adventist, Quaker, Lutheran, C&MA, etc.

Hank Hanegraaff claims some of these phenomena are indicators of counterfeit revival.77 While some such manifestations could be counterfeit, in the light of these examples it would be more accurate to say that there are counterfeits in the midst of revival. In most every revival in church history—Wesleyan, Great Awakening, Cane Ridge, Welsh Revival, Azusa Street, charismatic—there has been mixture. Where there is counterfeit, there must also be the genuine. Wesley warned of a two-fold danger: 1) to regard them too much, as essential to revival, 2) to regard them too little, condemning them altogether.78 The position of many of the early evangelical and holiness leaders was one of a "middle ground,"79 one that neither accepts nor rejects such phenomena without further discernment. The viewpoint of Jonathan Edwards (which both critics like Hanegraaff and Toronto blessing supporters sometimes have seemed to ignore) is perhaps the wisest counsel:

A work is not to be judged of by any effects on the bodies of men; such as tears, trembling, groans, loud outcries, agonies of body, or the failing of bodily strength. The influence persons are under is not to be judged of one way or other by such effects on the body; and the reason is because the Scripture nowhere gives us any such rule. We cannot conclude that persons are under the influence of the true Spirit because we see such effects on their bodies, because this is not given as a mark of the true Spirit; nor on the other hand, have we any reason to conclude, from any such outward appearances, that persons are not under the influence of the Spirit of God, because there is no rule of Scripture given us to judge of spirits by, that does either expressly or indirectly exclude such effects on the body, nor does reason exclude them.80

Through studying the history of revivals, Martyn Lloyd-Jones came to much the same close:

I would conclude that the phenomena are not essential to revival. . . I believe that in their origin they are essentially of the Spirit of God, but we must always allow for the fact that because of the very frailty of human nature, and of our physical frames, you will have a tendency to an admixture, partly along the physical, partly along the psychic, and partly s the result of the Devil's activity. But there is nothing more foolish or more ridiculous than to dismiss the whole because of a very, very small part. . . . expect this, and . . . be on guard against the false and spurious. . . . But we must not seek phenomena and strange experiences. . . .What we must seek is revival. . . . Anyone who tries to work up phenomena is a tool of the Devil, and is putting himself in the position of the psychic and the psychological.81

Generally among holiness and evangelicals of the eighteenth to early twentieth century such manifestations were accepted as genuine but not sought or emphasized, and caution was exercised in not accepting all such manifestations as from God. Non-charismatic or non-Pentecostal people today can thus be assured that such manifestations can be recognized as from God, with use of discernment. At the same time, Pentecostals and charismatics need to be careful to exercise discernments and "test the spirits," not accepting uncritically all such phenomena as genuinely from the Spirit of God.

ENDNOTES

1 Jonathan Edwards, "The Distinguishing Marks of the Work of the Spirit of God," Jonathan Edwards on Revival (Edinburgh: The Banner of Truth Trust, 1984), 91, 92. He gives as biblical examples the fainting of the queen of Sheba, the trembling and falling of the Philippian jailer, and others (pp. 91-94).

2 John Wesley, The Journal of John Wesley (Chicago: Moody Press, n.d.), 76. For other incidents of falling, see pp.81, 99, 293. See also Ann Taves, Fits, Trances, and Visions (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1999), 72-74, 76-117.

3 Eddie L. Hyatt, 2000 Years of Charismatic Christianity (Lake Mary, FL: Charisma House, 2002), 114-117.

4 Peter Cartwright, Autobiography of Peter Cartwright (New York, NY, Nashville, TN: Abingdon Press, 1956), 68, 88-89, 102-104, 130, 143, 161.

5 Charles G. Finney, The Autobiography of Charles Finney (Minneapolis: Bethany House, Inc., 1977), 100-101; also 23, 37, 46, 57-58, 63, 116, 120, 125, 131, 139, 163.

6 Eifion Evans, Revival Comes to Wales (Bryntirion, Bridgend, Wales: Evangelical Press of Wales, 1959, 1967), 70.

7 Leona Choy, Andrew and Emma Murray: An Intimate Portrait of Their Marriage and Ministry (Winchester, VA: Golden Morning Publishing, 2000), 85-90.

8 Wayne E. Warner, The Woman Evangelist: The Life and Times of Charismatic Evangelist Maria B. Woodworth-Etter (Metuchen, N.J. & London: Scarecrow Press, Inc., 1986), 82, 83, 95.

9 R. A. Torrey, The Power of Prayer (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1971), 46-47.

10 Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, Feb. 10, 1906, 84.

11 Jonathan Goforth, By My Spirit (Minneapolis: Bethany Fellowship, 1942, reprint 1964), 9-10.

12 "Healing of Mrs. Williams," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, May 9, 1890, 295-296.

13 "Alliance Notes," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, Aug. 11, 1897, 137; Dean Peck, "Field Notes," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, Aug. 11, 1897, 137.

14 W. A. Cramer, "Pentecost at Cleveland," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly 27 (April 27, 1907), 201; A. B. Simpson, "Editorial," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly 27 (June 8, 1907), 205; Stanley H. Frodsham, With Signs Following, rev. ed. (Springfield, MO: Gospel Publishing House, 1946), 51-52.

15 T. J. McCrossan, Bodily Healing and the Atonement (Youngstown, OH: Clement Hubbard, 1930), 109-110.

16 Charles S. Price, See God (Pasadena, CA: Charles S. Price Publishing House, 1943), 80; compare T. J. McCrossan, Speaking with Other Tongues: Sign or Gift—Which? (Harrisburg, PA: Christian Publications, 1927), 34.

17 Edwards, 91.

18 E. M. Bounds, The Possibilities of Prayer (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1979), 138.

19 Finney, 22.

20 Mary N. Garrard, Mrs. Penn-Lewis: A Memoir (Hants, Eng.: The Overcomer Book Room, distrib. Ft. Washington: Christian Literature Crusade, 1947), 36-37.

21 A. B. Simpson, Days of Heaven on Earth (Camp Hill, PA: Christian Publications, 1984), June 27.

22 A.B. Simpson, "Simpson's Nyack Diary," Sept. 12, 1907, cited in Charles W. Nienkirchen, A.B. Simpson and the Pentecostal Movement (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1992), 145.

23 Oswald Chambers: His Life and Work (London: Simpkin Marshall, Ltd., 1947), 103.

24 Again Chambers records in his journal May 6, 1907, "It is an unspeakably blessed thing to see souls come out under the blessing of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire. Some simply laugh, peals of the heartiest and most blessed laughter you ever heard, just a modern edition of 'Then was our mouth filled with laughter.'" A third time Chambers writes on May 27, "Many souls cut loose, there were tears and laughter and all the blessed signs of those revival times the Lord brings so mysteriously and suddenly upon His people. It is a great business to open up all the windows of the soul to heaven and live on the Hallelujah side." (Ibid., 104-105).

25 Capt. E. G. Carre, ed., Praying Hyde: A Challenge to Prayer, (Asheville, NC: Revival Literature, n.d.), 26.

26 A. W. Tozer, Worship: The Missing Jewel (Camp Hill, PA: Christian Publications, 1992), 20-21.

27 Evans, 70.

28 Ibid., 31.

29 A.B. Simpson, "Editorial Correspondence," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, April 17, 1895, 248.

30 Vinson Synan, The Holiness-Pentecostal Tradition: Charismatic Movements in the Twentieth Century (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1971, 1997), 95, 108-109.

31 Finney, 21.

32 Irene E. Lewis, Life Sketch of Rev. Mary C. Norton: Remarkable Healings on Mission Fields (Los Angeles: Pilgrim's Mission, Inc., 1954), 27.

33 Ibid.

34 George P. Pardington, Twenty-five Wonderful Years, 1889-1914: A Popular Sketch of the C&MA (New York, NY: Christian Alliance Publishing Co., 1914), 216; John Cookman, "Divine Holiness," The Word, The Work, and the World, Dec. 1885, 336; John E. Cookman, "A Testimony of Healing, The Word, The Work, and the World, Sept. 1886, 160-162; Mrs. George W. Ford, "Testimony of Divine Healing," The Word, The Work, and the World, May 1887, 267; Mary A. Manning, "Healed and Kept," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, Feb. 11, 1905, 85; Mrs. M.J. Clark, "Testimonies of Healing," The Word, The Work, and the World, Jan. 1887, 33; Rev. McBride, "Testimonies of Healing," The Word, The Work, and the World, Sept. 1886, 164; R.E. Jeanson, "Divine Healing: A Testimony," The Word, The Work, and the World, Apr. 1887, 215. These are just a few of the many testimonies of physical sensations of warmth, electricity, power, light, etc.

35 James A. Stewart, Invasion of Wales by the Spirit (Asheville, NC: Revival Literature, n.d.), 29.

36 Edwards, 64.

37 Ibid., 151.

38 Carre, 23-24.

39 Mrs. James Gainforth, "Consumption," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, May 31, 1902, 317.

40 Finney, 23, 163-164; Wesley, 76, 293.

41 See Cartwright, 45-47, 66-67; Maria Woodworth-Etter, Marvels and Miracles (Indianapolis, IN: M.B.W. Etter, 1922), 503, 505-508. For instance, Maria Woodworth-Etter wrote:

A woman came to me and said, "I am afraid this spirit on me is not of God; I was baptised [sic] in the Holy Ghost; I went into a mission where they did everything by tongues and they got me so mixed up I did not know where I was; then this spirit got hold of me; it shakes my head and makes my head ache." That is spiritualism. Some people, when they pray for anyone and lay on hands, throw their slime off. That is spiritualism. . . . Be careful who lays hands on you, for the devil is counterfeiting God's work. Woodworth-Etter, 508.
42 Taves, 132-135, 152-165, 206, 226-234, 241-247.

43 Carre, 22.

44 Torrey, 48.

45 "The Jerry McAuley Mission," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, Jan. 28, 1911, 275.

46 Stewart, 31-33, 36, 43, 46, 51, 61, 76.

47 Elizabeth Elliot, A Chance to Die: The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael (Old Tappan, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1987), 89-90, 99, 168, 181, 193, 210, 221, 222, 235, 253, 276, 292-293.

48 Lewis Drummond, Spurgeon: Prince of Preachers (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel, 1992), 81, 167, 173, 181, 184, 221, 235-236, 271, 281, 285.

49 F.B. Meyer, Five Musts of the Christian Life (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1927), 122.

50 A. W. Tozer, Wingspread (Harrisburg: Christian Publications, 1943), 62.

51 Pardington, 216.

52 Louise Green, "Robert Jaffray: Man of Spirit, Man of Power," His Dominion, 16:1, 10, 11.

53 For example, C. H. Gootee recounts a healing service led by A. B. Simpson and Henry Wilson in which he received a miraculous healing. When Wilson anointed him with oil, he saw a vision of the blood of Jesus sprinkled on his breast and body. C.H. Gootee, "The Miracle of My Healing," Triumphs of Faith (March 1926), 62.

54 For instance, Maria Woodworth-Etter, who circulated both in holiness and early Pentecostal circles, advised, "Don't take up with every vision that comes along." She gave an example of one such spurious revelation: "In the midst of a vision she heard a voice say to her, 'You are going to die.' But it was the devil." Woodworth-Etter, 503, 506.

55 Martin Wells Knapp, Impressions (Cincinnati: Revivalist Publishing House, 1892), 15.

56 Thomas Upham, The Life of Faith (New York: Garland Publishing, 1984 reprint Boston: Waite, Pierce, 1845), 85.

57 Knapp, 34.

58 Cartwright, 76-77.

59 B. J. Oropeza, A Time to Laugh: The Holy Laughter Phenomenon (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1995), 158.

60 Jessie Penn-Lewis with Evan Roberts, War on the Saints: Unabridged Edition (New York: Thomas E. Lowe, Ltd., n.d.), 320, 324.

61 Adolf Rodewyk, Possessed By Satan, trans. Martin Ebon (Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1975), 152.

62 Cartwright, 45-47.

63 Penn-Lewis and Roberts, 131.

64 Ibid., 297-298.

65 Penn-Lewis and Roberts, 285.

66 Stewart, 29.

67 Carrie Judd Montgomery, "Witchcraft and Kindred Spirits," The Alliance Weekly, Oct. 15, 1938, 660-661, Oct. 22, 1938, 676-677, see also Taves, 231.

68 Oesterreich, in his monumental work Possession, writes of many examples of possession by animal spirits, such as cats, badgers, tiger, ox, dogs, monkeys, snakes, lions, and foxes. T.K. Oesterreich, Possession: Demonical and Other (New Hyde Park, NY: University Books, 1966), 144-145. A person with a fox spirit, for instance, "adopts the habits of foxes" (224). A person with a tiger spirit would get on his hands and knees and growl (274-275). Another woman would glide like a snake and speak in tongues (144). He also records that a demon roared (184). In another instance, St. Francis cast out roaring demons (182). Jerome reports in his biography of St. Paula that possessed persons in Samaria "howled like wolves, barked like dogs, roared like lions, hissed like serpents, bellowed like bulls" (162). In Algiers dancers are possessed and imitate voices of lions and camels (263). In another instance, a monkey spirit caused a child to swing to and for and to climb supernaturally (276). John Wesley also spoke of roaring taking place in demonized people. Frederck S. Leahy, Satan Cast Out (Edinburgh: The Banner of Truth Trust, 1975), 121. Nineteenth century Presbyterian missionary John Nevius writes of demons with a voice like a bird and twisting of body. John L. Nevius, Demon Possession and Allied Themes (Chicago: Fleming H. Revell, n.d.), 46, 53. Johann Christoph Blumhardt describes a demons roaring or howling during deliverance. McCandlish Phillips, The Bible, the Supernatural, and the Jews (Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1970), 199; Friedrich Zuendel, The Awakening (Farmington, PA: Plough Publishing House, 1999), 58.

69 A. B. Simpson, Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, Feb. 2, 1907.

70 Paul Rader, "At Thy Word—A Farewell Message," The Alliance Weekly, Nov. 20, 1920, 532.

71 Charles Parham, The Everlasting Gospel (Baxter Springs, KS: n.p., 1911), 71, 72.

72 Woodworth-Etter, 507-508.

73 Cartwright, 102.

74 A missionary friend in South Africa reported that on two separate occasions he observed two different pastors apparently roaring. Believing the phenomena to be demonic, he attempted to cast out demons without any response. When questioned about it, in both instances each pastor responded that he was crying out in words for the nations to repent, but the listeners only heard roaring. This could be a similar phenomenon to the incident when God the Father spoke to Jesus and some thought it thundered (John 12:28-29), or when Paul heard Jesus speak but others only heard a sound (Acts 22:9).

75 Wesley, 71, 76, 81, 99, 207, 213, 215, 222, 234, 239, 293, 331-333, 378, 389.

76 See Paul L. King, Accepting the Supernatural with "Candor and Caution": An Annotated Chronological Catalog of Charismatic History of the Christian and Missionary Alliance (Tulsa, OK: Paul L. King, 2002).

77 Hank Hanegraaff, Counterfeit Revival (Dallas: Word Publishers, 1997).

78 Wesley, 239.

79 McCrossan, Speaking in Other Tongues, 42.

80 Edwards, 91.

81 D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Revival (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 1987), 146-147.

Thanks for your kind remarks Brother Gary. I really appreciate and treasure it.

Thanks also for this meticulously researched write-up. Must have cost precious hours to gather. This is a service not just to God but to d rest of humanity.

Thanks brothergary, that was a great article on revival. I do believe there is the genuine, and also the counterfeit, and we need to discern the difference. And we should not dismiss the gifts of the spirit, and the manifestations of revival, just because of fear of the counterfeit. America has not had a great revival in some time, we are hungry for it. These "psuedo" revivals that have broken out make people pessimistic. Let's continue to pray, though, for another outpouring.

bless you endlesjoe you and used for him ,, endless joe somebody else did the hard work i just found the artical and copied for the edafictan of us all

there is a revevivle and an awkening coming ,we do realy need to be prepared and seek this reviving of his spirit

i wrote a sprit led message in conection with the reveivle that we know is coming ,that points to what i and others will need to do to prepareand be found exceptable ,,i must admit am strugling to prepare

also ,,,i recieved a prophecy in direct conection with the message that i wrote ,,that i feel others like your selfs and me should read ,,it was deserned and excepted by two other witnesses ,who said it was from god ,,,,these two men of god have a prohetic calling and are matured saints unlike my self ,,and nobody else directly critased it and said it was from the flesh ,or anunclean spirit ,,

permit me to post it here for a reminder to me and you what is coming and what we must do to recive this blessings

one of the two brothers who bore witness to the prophecy ,also gave a deep exposision of what some of it meant and he spent hours doing that

blessings

Wow! Brother Gary I didnt tel you I've been longing to meet someone with relevant information concerning ds forthcomin Revival that wil set d stage for d Last Awakening.

You not only have relevant information, but u're also taking relevant steps to prepare 4 d task ahead. That really humbles me I must say.

I've been prayin and preparing for ds Revival also until d pursuit has become my only job description for d past 6years. Nobody told me Revival costs this much. In fact, it costs everything. But the Price must be paid.

Now I understand why Evan Roberts was so worried that at 26, that all his mates seem to have left him behind and he seem to have no goal or direction in life. Also Frank Bartlemann was literaly stripped down to his vitals while prayin for Revival that he had to trust God to feed his family & pay his rent.

My major challenge had been to anchor on d Spirit of Prayer who is d prelude to every major move of God.

Evan Roberts lent me a helpin hand recently when I came across a line in a lecture he gave at d peak of d Welsh Revival. He said "without the readiness to work the Spirit of Prayer wil not come." By 'work' he meant evangelizin lost souls. Thats been my problem! Not been evangelizing.

Didnt know there is a conection btwn d passion for souls and ultimately recievin d Spirit of Prayer. This tip is a breakthru I hope to consolidate on in d days ahead.

My ultimate motivation in d pursuit of Revival had been to see God glorified & d gospel become relevant again in Church Street, Maine Street & also in Wall Street.

I've been guided by d light of my heart, not Prophecies. Though eventually D Lord in His mercy has brought some prophecies my way, they were not in d original what pushed me into d pursuit.

D Revival am workin towards is particular for Nigeria. I now want to lay hands on other Prophecies, like d one you have Brother Gary, so I can stretch my hands of Prayer across d World.

NB: I believe that d absence of a particular Prophecy for any Locality is not a deterrent for desiring Revival, since God's Word is a more sure word of Prophecy. And d Word says "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." (Psalm 2:8).

Let me share one of such Prophecies that's become an anchor for my soul. I feel Isaiah 18 predicts a Revival that wil hit Nigeria before d Rapture. We may differ on this but we'll stil be Brothers.

Isaiah 18:1 says that country is beyond d Rivers Ethiopia. Meaning its an African Nation.

"Go, swift messengers, to a people tall and smooth-skinned, to a people feared far and wide, an aggressive nation of strange speech, whose land is divided by rivers." (Isaiah 18:2). NIV

Nigeria is a natiön divided into 3 parts by Rivers Niger and Benue. Its d natiön with d highest number of spoken languanges in Africa(if not d World), with over 250 spoken languages and over a thousand dialects & deeply divided along Religious, ethnic & Geopolitical lines. An aggressive nation of strange speech?

"A people feared far and wide." Am ashamed to accept that no other nation "beyond d rivers of Ethiopia" rivals my beloved Country in this vivid description due to corruption & widespread dishonesty. In fact, its almost suggested in certain quarters that being Nigerian increases one's propensity towards criminality. Maybe thats why we need this Revival anyhow.

Its my humble opinion that that aggressive nation of strange speech beyond d rivers of Ethiopia, whose Land is divided by rivers Niger & Benue and whose nationals are dreaded far & near is Nigeria.

Am also open to a more balanced interpretation of this scripture. Let no one think they'll burst my bubble by differing in opinion.

Verse 7 predicts a Revival that wil hit that country before the Rapture and wil make international headlines accordin to verse 3.

"At that time gifts will be brought to the LORD Almighty from a people tall and smooth-skinned, from a people feared far and wide, an aggressive nation of strange speech, whose land is divided by rivers- the gifts will be brought to Mount Zion, the place of the Name of the LORD Almighty." (Isaiah 18:7).

"At that Time..." -which Time? The 'Time before the Harvest' (Rapture) referred to in verse 5 - there wil be a mass movement of people in this country back to God.

This and other precious Promises from d Lord has animated my desire for years. They've called me all sorts of names. Some say am mad. Some say I lack any future ambition. My family says am under a "grandiose delusion."

But none can take from the man what he has heard.

I believe we're on d brink of d biggest move of God in recorded history. What God will do in His Church in d months ahead wil baffle historians. The Church that wil emerge wil crush d serpent's head.

I can't see d link to d Prophecies u promised to post Brother Gary. Kindly post it again or send it to me @ uzosikejoe@facebook.com or uzosikeemyjoe@yahoo.com if you want to keep it confidential.

The Lord's richest blessings!

Revival is the preaching of the cross. The message of the cross is encapsulated in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The response to the message is turning to God in repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. Evidence if such heart conversions will flow forth in deeds f repentance.

So called outward manifestations are irrelevant or at best secondary to the gospel message. And the heart change that message brings.

Bearmaster: The heart of the gospel, the almost too good to be true news, is that we can be set free from the bondage of sin and have right relationship with God through what Christ did for us. God desires that every man repent and turn to Him through faith in Christ. And I agree totally that this is to be the focus of the body of Christ.

I also agree that outward manifestations are secondary. They are NEVER to be the focus.

I assume when we say outward manifestations we are speaking only of things like "falling out", "shaking", and etc. and not the gifts of the Spirit such as healings, miracles, prophecy, etc..

Physical manifestations can be, at times, simply the reaction of a limited, fleshly body and emotions to what God is doing in the particular person. (see also my previous post on where I believe manifestations come from) I recall a few sweet times in the presence of the Lord when I could not help but laugh for joy. I must make the statement that I did not lose control. Has I wanted to remain stoic, I could easily have done it. But there was a physical reaction in my body and emotions to the presence of the Lord.

However, if I were a very carnal person I might seek to recreate the emotion in an effort to have another "high" so to speak. This, I think, is where some people miss it. They become centered up on the manifestation and seek it for its own sake. This is dangerous and leads to error. And, in my opinion, can open one up to the enemy coming in with a false manifestation, a fleshly substitute that will titillate the senses with no corresponding fruit.

We seek God. We walk by faith. We desire Him and to be more like Him. The manifestations that are so fleeting are not necessarily irrelevant, but are absolutely secondary if we should give them much thought at all. Perhaps they do not even deserve secondary mention. Yet at times, a genuine manifestation is a positive thing.

Brother Tom: I also am very concerned about the Elijah list phenomenon that seems to be sweeping the body right now. It is coupled with a movement that actively seeks the signs, wonders, and manifestations as well as the Apostolic / Prophetic movement. I have had some (actually quite a bit of) contact with this movement and have been carefully comparing its core beliefs and doctrines with the Word of God. I fear that this movement is leading many astray. I cannot say that those caught up in this move are not born again and do not love the Lord. I can say that there is some very grave foundational error. I just do not know where that error is going to lead in the future. I have my guesses, but time will have to bear that out. I would advise any believer to avoid that movement.

"Revival is when Heaven kisses d earth." @Brother Tom: what a practical definition.

Wish I saw this 3hours ago when I sent a mail to a Brother in Kampala Uganda, who'd askd 4 my definition of d term "Revival."

Told him am more interested in havin a Revival than its definition.

Told him that d half-hour spent prayin for Revival is of far greater Eternal consequence than the half-hour spent on a theological debate on d subject.

Told him that one lesson I learnt from d Psalmist (Psm85:6) and d Prophet Habakkuk (Hab3:2) is that these two heroes of Faith askd God for Revival without stopping to offer us a balanced Theological definition of d word they employed.

Wish I'd simply told him that "Revival is when Heaven kisses d Earth"

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44952&forum=35&2

i have about three more threds to post endlessjoe regaringd preparations ,revivle ,and awkening,,,

this was a prophecy ,another is a exortation ,,another is a interprattion of some of the prophecy ,and another is a brothers intrepration and transposisin and testamony about the prophecyand interprtation

blessings brother for zeal

an exortation

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44951&forum=35&0

interprataions coments and testamony

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44975&forum=35&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=1

i had to copy this from my email dont kjnow how to post a link to that
A literal transposition into prosaic form, By Brother Andrew. 28th - 29th June 2012

Meditation and Mind of Preparation

Come! Reckon yourselves dead unto sin!
He is hanging on the Cross for us!
See the Blood!
See the Pain!
Watch! The Sacrifice of the Holy Lamb (of God)!
See how He offers Himself to God! For us!
Listen! Hear the earth, quake!
And the Cry of the Lamb!
Listen! The Chords of Sin break! Whilst He cries out!
(Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani?)
My God! My God! Why have you forsaken Me?

It is finished!
He has broken the head of the snake!
The propitiation! The Offering is Complete!
The Son has set you free!
And you are Free indeed!
He has broken the Power of Sin over His people!
Truly this was the Son of God!
Who was bruised for our iniquity!
The chastisement of our Peace was upon Him!
He bore our sins! Listen to His pain!
By these stripes we are healed!

Declaration and Mind or Readiness

The chords of Sin are gone!
The leash of iniquity is released!
He has set you free from the leash of slavery!
Sin has no more dominion over us!
He condemned sin in the flesh!
You are Free. He set you Free!
Reckon yourselves dead unto sin!

Sin’s dominion was nailed to the Cross!
He who knew no sin, became Sin!
Cursed is He who is hung on the tree!
The curse is taken from you!
Now you must leave that curse on the Tree!
Leave you old man on the Cross!
Resist the Devil, and he will flees from you!

Exhortation and Mind of Readiness

Take the grain of mustard seed on your lips!
Let it sprout, grow and bear Fruit!
Confess the Truth to one another!
HE SET YOU FREE!
THE CROSS HAS SET YOU FREE!
What was nailed on the altar is become your freedom!
Rejoice now in your liberty!
Where sin abounded; Grace abounded more!
He set you free!

Commandment and Mind of Readiness

Step out from the old traps!
Don’t let the traps entangle you!
You are made free!
You are made a new creature!
Walk by Faith!
For I know My sheep!
And they follow Me!
Endure the narrow path which I have made for you!
And you ARE saved!
No one is able to pluck you out of my hand!
Obedience has crucified the flesh and its passions!
Listen to its cries and know that therein death has come.
As the flower of the field passes away!
When I make the sun rise!
So the flower of the flesh has been cut from you!
Walk away now!
Don’t hold onto a cut rose seeing only its dying attraction!
Walk now to the empty Tomb!
Behold! See that I am not there!
I am vindicated! So are you! Come to Me! And Hold Me!
See that it IS Me!
Hold your brother by the hand also!
Bring him to Me! Pull him away from the rose which holds his gaze.
Leave him not outside the Camp.
Lead him through the (narrow) gate! To my feet!
Where I hung for you!

???? New Heading (relevant to the meaning of the two sons and first funeral)

Put aside your differing doctrines!
Like My two sons Whom I raised up for My sake! And for yours!
And remember my firsts funeral!
Remember the mind of My Spirit that was there!
That I gave myself for the Bond of Peace!
Hold each one’s hand with a Brotherly kiss. For a moment!
And look to Me. Remembering your own benefit!
Then I will lift you in My Sanctification!
Even the Sanctification which I have Sanctified you with!
Touch not my liberties with all your heart!
But touch my Hands and Feet! And My Side! With a full Gaze!
Separate yourself for a season!
Then you will know that I have separated you Forever!
Separate Yourselves! The season is Come!
And the season itself will separate you!

The Prophecy of Effects

It is the Season of Rain!
Come and be washed in this new rain of old!
Blow the trumpet!
There is a wet season and a flood!
This flood shall be for a narrow tributary this season!
The richness of the waters in this season will feed the Trees!
And the Trees will indeed bear fruit!
And the fruit will be stored in My Barns!
It will feed those who Thirst in the dry season!
A season which is near!
And they shall Ask! And it will be given to them!
This will be to a different Harvest!
Different from the last four!
It will be My best fruit!
In the last minute, of the last hour of My last days!
And Behold!
This will prepare My Way! And make My paths Straight!
My Prophets are coming!
For I Myself have raised them!
From before the world was!
And I will lead them! As I have led you!
And you will surly know who are olive trees in the season to come!

Commandment and A Mind of Obedience

Now I Call you! All of you to Repent!
And do not your own Works!
Even My Prophets and My Pastors!
All of you at This Time! Shall Repent!
And Hear what you Everlasting Father is saying to you!
Listen to me!
As you are My children!
I have some things more for all of you!
Some shall do the First Works!
And others shall do the Works which they have never done before!

Personal Exhortation to a son.

And even My weak wayward son!
Through whom I have spoken!
He also must dig very deep and Repent!
And do the works he has never done before!
And bear fruit of deep repentance!
And Prove his love to Me!

Sufficiency of Grace, the Word and Hearing

My Grace is sufficient!
And I will supply! According to your Need!
This is what the LORD is saying to you!
My Word is in you!
And in your mouth!
Listen to what The Spirit is saying to you tonight!

Thanks Brother Gary!