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SDA Salvation

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DEADn

I recently learned that my nephew, by marriage, got baptized into the SDA church. I found this from his facebook page that was posted onto mine. He also posted a few scripture references to it but it doesn't say much at all about being born again. He is 12 years old.

I have read up on SDA and actually went with them, a number of times to the SDA church, but through it all I have never taken time to understand how a person comes to salvation under the SDA banner. I just know that they adhere strictly to dietary laws and emphasize the Sabbath out of all the 10 Commandments.

I have also learned that when a kid hits 12 they are pressured to join the church. He is 12 and he is an aunt and uncle who are missionaries and very evangelical who live around the corner from them. I am wondering how much of an influence they had on this situation. As for me, I have to ask my wife to ask her sister about the circumstances behind this decision.

I find the whole the whole thing fishy but also an opportunity, as well, to talk about the gospel.

Has anyone ever had a similar experience with SDA or even some other religious ideology with family or friend and how did you react to it?

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roadsign

Has anyone ever had a similar experience with SDA or even some other religious ideology with family or friend and how did you react to it?

Yes, I can relate. I’m sure we could each add a long list of similar concerns about questionable religious ideologies. But in doing that we put our own ideologies at risk. We focus on that which we can do nothing about, while our minds drift away from what IS our calling. Here’s what I would suggest. Write all your concerns about other people and their ideologies on a list. Grieve over these symptoms of the loss of a perfect, sin-free world. Yet grieve as one who has hope, not one who has become embittered and despairing. After all, all is not hopeless when we see through God’s promises.

Leave this all in his hands – and symbolize your commitment with a burning ceremony. Burn the list.

And then begin afresh – seeking rather, the insurmountable blessings of God through his Son. When your life overflows with the fullness of Christ – you will be a light for Christ in this fallen world - and also an encourager for fellow believers.

“Set your heart (focus your attention) on things above.” Col. 3:1

Diane

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DEADn

Diane

I agree with your comments and it reminds me to just separate myself from so much irritation involved in religious ideology and go my way.

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roadsign

I agree with your comments and it reminds me to just separate myself from so much irritation involved in religious ideology and go my way.

Yes, we need to encourage each other to see our world through the blessings of God’s goodness – no matter where we are. God has not given up on humanity. He continues to offer his forgiveness through his new Life. And that is filled with beauty beyond measure.

Right now I’m reading a book called “One Thousand Gifts: A dare to live fully right where you are” by Ann Voscamp. In her creative literary style, Ann paints “a thousand” pictures of blessings which she sees in her every day world. What a way to praise the Lord, nourish the soul, and build up others in their faith!

Diane

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SkepticGuy

4give my ignorance; what is SDA? from what i gathered from this conversation they hold to the 10 commandments, and thats the issue? shouldnt we all? please help me out with this. not sure what the issue is.

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proudpapa

Hi SkepticGuy you asked ///4give my ignorance; what is SDA///

I believe that they are referring to seventh day adventist.

I used to listen to Amazing Facts ministries by Joe Crews I never heard one bad thing said.
Some of there end times literature that I have read seems a bit off.
I am sure I will pay for saying this but as pastor Don Cole of moody has said I would not consider them a cult.

Edit: I wrote bob I meant Don

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DEADn

skepticguy

SDA is Seventh Day Adventist church. Most people know of them because they go to church on Saturday which they say is the 'true' Sabbath. They also want promote keeping the Commandments but Keeping the Sabbath often time seems to be the most important.

Periodically they will do weekly seminars about bible prophecy. If you go to each one you will gently watch as they steer you to the knowledge that the SDA church is the true church on the Earth. They do it through a series of time lines.

The people are nice and well meaning but I think the doctrines are messed up. Also, they do not believe in Hell as a place of eternal torment. Essentially, the soul will be come null and void if the soul goes to their teaching of hell.

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SkepticGuy

ok, thank you for the information. i drive by one of their churches a lot, just had not heard of them being called 'sda' before.

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proudpapa

Hi Deadn

RE: Deadn wrote /// a number of times to the SDA church, but through it all I have never taken time to understand how a person comes to salvation under the SDA banner.///

. Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

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DEADn

I am really amazed how SDA can go from what you posted , proudpapa, to what they practice afterward but you know something? I am not going to worry about it unless it lands on my doorstep. Part of it is a little but at a distance.

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sam09

Hi DEADn

Might be helpful to check out previous sermonindex posts dealing with this topic.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18613&forum=36&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41432&forum=36&21

God bless you

Sam

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PaulWest

An excerpt from one of those old SDA threads:

"Seventh Day Adventist doctrine espouses annihilationism, soul sleep and investigative judgment. Annihilationsim denounces a literal hell. Soul Sleep defies the belief that the soul is eternal. Investigative Judgment teaches that the judgment of believers has been in process since 1844. They abstain from meats, teach others to do so, and place a legal emphasis on sabbatarianism. They also view their church as the true "remnant", a similiar belief held respectively by the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, the Roman Catholic Church, United Pentecostal Church, etc.

This is not to to libel any one particular denomination or movement, but I would encourage you to honestly investigate fully the claims and beliefs of the SDA church, and weigh what you find in light of Holy Scripture. Do this with any religious movement or belief system which is purporting to follow Christ. And especially investigate any movement which apostacizes other churches that do not share in their convictions."

Brother Paul

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proudpapa

Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.


1. Holy Scriptures:
The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)

2. Trinity:
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)


3. Father:
God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation. He is just and holy, merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Rev. 4:11; 1 Cor. 15:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:17; Ex. 34:6, 7; John 14:9.)

4. Son:
God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)

5. Holy Spirit:
God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ's life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)

6. Creation:
God is Creator of all things, and has revealed in Scripture the authentic account of His creative activity. In six days the Lord made "the heaven and the earth" and all living things upon the earth, and rested on the seventh day of that first week. Thus He established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial of His completed creative work. The first man and woman were made in the image of God as the crowning work of Creation, given dominion over the world, and charged with responsibility to care for it. When the world was finished it was ``very good,'' declaring the glory of God. (Gen. 1; 2; Ex. 20:8-11; Ps. 19:1-6; 33:6, 9; 104; Heb. 11:3.)

7. Nature of Man:
Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do. Though created free beings, each is an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit, dependent upon God for life and breath and all else. When our first parents disobeyed God, they denied their dependence upon Him and fell from their high position under God. The image of God in them was marred and they became subject to death. Their descendants share this fallen nature and its consequences. They are born with weaknesses and tendencies to evil. But God in Christ reconciled the world to Himself and by His Spirit restores in penitent mortals the image of their Maker. Created for the glory of God, they are called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:7; Ps. 8:4-8; Acts 17:24-28; Gen. 3; Ps. 51:5; Rom. 5:12-17; 2 Cor. 5:19, 20; Ps. 51:10; 1 John 4:7, 8, 11, 20; Gen. 2:15.)

8. Great Controversy:
All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary, and led into rebellion a portion of the angels. He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. (Rev. 12:4-9; Isa. 14:12-14; Eze. 28:12-18; Gen. 3; Rom. 1:19-32; 5:12-21; 8:19-22; Gen. 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6; 1 Cor. 4:9; Heb. 1:14.)

9. Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ:
In Christ's life of perfect obedience to God's will, His suffering, death, and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator. This perfect atonement vindicates the righteousness of God's law and the graciousness of His character; for it both condemns our sin and provides for our forgiveness. The death of Christ is substitutionary and expiatory, reconciling and transforming. The resurrection of Christ proclaims God's triumph over the forces of evil, and for those who accept the atonement assures their final victory over sin and death. It declares the Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. (John 3:16; Isa. 53; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4, 20-22; 2 Cor. 5:14, 15, 19-21; Rom. 1:4; 3:25; 4:25; 8:3, 4; 1 John 2:2; 4:10; Col. 2:15; Phil. 2:6-11.)

10. Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

11. Growing in Christ:
By His death on the cross Jesus triumphed over the forces of evil. He who subjugated the demonic spirits during His earthly ministry has broken their power and made certain their ultimate doom. Jesus' victory gives us victory over the evil forces that still seek to control us, as we walk with Him in peace, joy, and assurance of His love. Now the Holy Spirit dwells within us and empowers us. Continually committed to Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, we are set free from the burden of our past deeds. No longer do we live in the darkness, fear of evil powers, ignorance, and meaninglessness of our former way of life. In this new freedom in Jesus, we are called to grow into the likeness of His character, communing with Him daily in prayer, feeding on His Word, meditating on it and on His providence, singing His praises, gathering together for worship, and participating in the mission of the Church. As we give ourselves in loving service to those around us and in witnessing to His salvation, His constant presence with us through the Spirit transforms every moment and every task into a spiritual experience. (Ps 1:1, 2; 23:4; 77:11, 12; Col 1:13, 14; 2:6, 14, 15; Luke 10:17-20; Eph 5:19, 20; 6:12-18; 1 Thess 5:23; 2 Peter 2:9; 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:17, 18; Phil 3:7-14; 1 Thess 5:16-18; Matt 20:25-28; John 20:21; Gal 5:22-25; Rom 8:38, 39; 1 John 4:4; Heb 10:25.)

12. Church:
The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruction in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord's Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are the written Word. The church is God's family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new covenant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. The church is the bride for whom Christ died that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish. (Gen. 12:3; Acts 7:38; Eph. 4:11-15; 3:8-11; Matt. 28:19, 20; 16:13-20; 18:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1:22, 23; 5:23-27; Col. 1:17, 18.)

13. Remnant and Its Mission:
The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)

14. Unity in the Body of Christ:
The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children. (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)

15. Baptism:
By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)

16. Lord's Supper:
The Lord's Supper is a participation in the emblems of the body and blood of Jesus as an expression of faith in Him, our Lord and Saviour. In this experience of communion Christ is present to meet and strengthen His people. As we partake, we joyfully proclaim the Lord's death until He comes again. Preparation for the Supper includes self-examination, repentance, and confession. The Master ordained the service of foot washing to signify renewed cleansing, to express a willingness to serve one another in Christlike humility, and to unite our hearts in love. The communion service is open to all believing Christians. (1 Cor. 10:16, 17; 11:23-30; Matt. 26:17-30; Rev. 3:20; John 6:48-63; 13:1-17.)

17. Spiritual Gifts and Ministries:
God bestows upon all members of His church in every age spiritual gifts which each member is to employ in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity. Given by the agency of the Holy Spirit, who apportions to each member as He wills, the gifts provide all abilities and ministries needed by the church to fulfill its divinely ordained functions. According to the Scriptures, these gifts include such ministries as faith, healing, prophecy, proclamation, teaching, administration, reconciliation, compassion, and self-sacrificing service and charity for the help and encouragement of people. Some members are called of God and endowed by the Spirit for functions recognized by the church in pastoral, evangelistic, apostolic, and teaching ministries particularly needed to equip the members for service, to build up the church to spiritual maturity, and to foster unity of the faith and knowledge of God. When members employ these spiritual gifts as faithful stewards of God's varied grace, the church is protected from the destructive influence of false doctrine, grows with a growth that is from God, and is built up in faith and love. (Rom. 12:4-8; 1 Cor. 12:9-11, 27, 28; Eph. 4:8, 11-16; Acts 6:1-7; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; 1 Peter 4:10, 11.)

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

19. Law of God:
The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. (Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)

20. Sabbath:
The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

21. Stewardship:
We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources. We are responsible to Him for their proper use. We acknowledge God's ownership by faithful service to Him and our fellow men, and by returning tithes and giving offerings for the proclamation of His gospel and the support and growth of His church. Stewardship is a privilege given to us by God for nurture in love and the victory over selfishness and covetousness. The steward rejoices in the blessings that come to others as a result of his faithfulness. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:15; 1 Chron. 29:14; Haggai 1:3-11; Mal. 3:8-12; 1 Cor. 9:9-14; Matt. 23:23; 2 Cor. 8:1-15; Rom. 15:26, 27.)

22. Christian Behavior:
We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)

23. Marriage and the Family:
Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship. For the Christian a marriage commitment is to God as well as to the spouse, and should be entered into only between partners who share a common faith. Mutual love, honor, respect, and responsibility are the fabric of this relationship, which is to reflect the love, sanctity, closeness, and permanence of the relationship between Christ and His church. Regarding divorce, Jesus taught that the person who divorces a spouse, except for fornication, and marries another, commits adultery. Although some family relationships may fall short of the ideal, marriage partners who fully commit themselves to each other in Christ may achieve loving unity through the guidance of the Spirit and the nurture of the church. God blesses the family and intends that its members shall assist each other toward complete maturity. Parents are to bring up their children to love and obey the Lord. By their example and their words they are to teach them that Christ is a loving disciplinarian, ever tender and caring, who wants them to become members of His body, the family of God. Increasing family closeness is one of the earmarks of the final gospel message. (Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 19:3-9; John 2:1-11; 2 Cor. 6:14; Eph. 5:21-33; Matt. 5:31, 32; Mark 10:11, 12; Luke 16:18; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11; Ex. 20:12; Eph. 6:1-4; Deut. 6:5-9; Prov. 22:6; Mal. 4:5, 6.)

24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

25. Second Coming of Christ:
The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour's coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ's coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times. (Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; Matt. 24:14; Rev. 1:7; Matt. 24:43, 44; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8; Rev. 14:14-20; 19:11-21; Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 1 Thess. 5:1-6.)

26. Death and Resurrection:
The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)

27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Rev. 20; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)

28. New Earth:
On the new earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen. (2 Peter 3:13; Isa. 35; 65:17-25; Matt. 5:5; Rev. 21:1-7; 22:1-5; 11:15.) Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

D
DEADn

by PaulWest on 2012/9/11 20:36:16

An excerpt from one of those old SDA threads:

"Seventh Day Adventist doctrine espouses annihilationism, soul sleep and investigative judgment. Annihilationsim denounces a literal hell. Soul Sleep defies the belief that the soul is eternal. Investigative Judgment teaches that the judgment of believers has been in process since 1844.
(quote)
They abstain from meats, teach others to do so, and place a legal emphasis on sabbatarianism. They also view their church as the true "remnant", a similiar belief held respectively by the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, the Roman Catholic Church, United Pentecostal Church, etc.

This is not to to libel any one particular denomination or movement, but I would encourage you to honestly investigate fully the claims and beliefs of the SDA church, and weigh what you find in light of Holy Scripture. Do this with any religious movement or belief system which is purporting to follow Christ. And especially investigate any movement which apostacizes other churches that do not share in their convictions."

Brother Paul
(/quote)

Their doctrine of hell is one which tells me what is there to worry about. They way I see it we would either go to heaven or the soul would be no more as you a person had never been born. If this were true then what is the point of believing in God as SDA would believe in Him?

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PaulWest

Their doctrine of hell is one which tells me what is there to worry about. They way I see it we would either go to heaven or the soul would be no more as you a person had never been born. If this were true then what is the point of believing in God as SDA would believe in Him?

This is precisely why the enemy has provoked men to espouse a disbelief in hell. It's not just a question on doubting scripture in whether or not a loving God could allow men to be tormented for all eternity; embracing annihilationism actually does incalculable malevolence to the soul.

The natural inclination of man is to reject the truth which pertains to hell – that is, eternal consignment to a place of excruciating punishment. This, unconverted man argues, is contrary to logic if we are to believe that God is loving and sees all human beings through the eyes of benevolent grace. Once a person disbelieves the notion of an actual period of tortuous retribution spanning into the realm of infinity, the mind becomes liberated from the unthinkable and concessions are immediately made available to the flesh.

If wicked men are simply annihilated, as many "Christian" groups purportedly claim, the worst punishment imposed for the criminal is, in fact, no punishment at all. Merely ceasing to exist after a lifetime of soul-debauchery is most egregiously unfair; it is a colossal injustice; it is a crooked ruling intended to benefit the criminal. It provides a soft pillow for the mindset of the Epicurean: “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we cease exist.”

Pensively in Christ,

Brother Paul

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proudpapa

I am not a seventh day adventist and I disagree with much of there teaching just the fact that they allow women to have such a leadership role in itsself is highly disturbing but I can not say that I am convinced that they are so heretical as to make a claim that they are a cult.

do they claim that they are the only true movement or remnant.

///Relationships with Other Christian Churches and Religious Organizations

To avoid creating misunderstanding or friction in our relationships with other Christian churches and religious organizations, the following guidelines have been set forth:

1) We recognize those agencies that lift up Christ before men as a part of the divine plan for evangelization of the world, and we hold in high esteem Christian men and women in other communions who are engaged in winning souls to Christ.

2) When interdivision work brings us in contact with other Christian societies and religious bodies, the spirit of Christian courtesy, frankness, and fairness shall prevail at all times.

3) We recognize that true religion is based on conscience and conviction. It is therefore to be our constant purpose that no selfish interest or temporal advantage shall draw any person to our communion and that no tie shall hold any member save the belief and conviction that in this way the true connection with Christ is found. If a change of conviction leads a member of our church to feel no longer in harmony with Seventh-day Adventist faith and practice, we recognize not only the right but also the responsibility of that member to change, without opprobrium, religious affiliation in accord with belief. We expect other religious bodies to respond in the same spirit of religious liberty.

4) Before admitting to church membership members of other religious organizations, care shall be exercised to ascertain that the candidates are moved to change their religious affiliation by religious conviction and out of regard to their personal relationship with God.

5) A person under censure of another religious organization for clearly established fault in Christian morals or character shall not be considered eligible for membership in the Seventh-day Adventist Church until there is evidence of repentance and reformation.

6) The Seventh-day Adventist Church is unable to confine its mission to restricted geographical areas because of its understanding of the gospel commission's mandate. In the providence of God and the historical development of His work for men, denominational bodies and religious movements have arisen from time to time to give special emphasis to different phases of gospel truth. In the origin and rise of the Seventh-day Adventist people, the burden was laid upon us to emphasize the gospel of Christ's second coming as an imminent event, calling for the proclamation of Biblical truths in the setting of the special message of preparation as described in Bible prophecy, particularly in Revelation 14:6-14. This message commissions the preaching of the "everlasting gospel to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people" bringing it to the attention of all peoples everywhere. Any restriction which limits witness to specified geographical areas therefore becomes an abridgment of the gospel commission. The Seventh-day Adventist Church also acknowledges the rights of other religious persuasions to operate without geographic restrictions. ///

http://adventist.org/beliefs/other-documents/other-doc5.html

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sermonindex

@proudpapa

If they were teaching something defined specifically in the Bible as a "doctrine of demons" would you then consider them heretical or a cult?

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proudpapa

Hi EverestoSama

RE: EverestoSama wrote ///If they were teaching something defined specifically in the Bible as a "doctrine of demons" would you then consider them heretical or a cult?///
I would guess that you already have something in mind I might be mistaken but I would guess that you might be referring to the Doctrine of Hell.
I will have to ponder on that for a while EverestoSama.


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sermonindex

Not what I was thinking of specifically, but here's something to consider:

1 Timothy 4:1-3 (emphasis mine)

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and ADVOCATE ABSTAINING FROM FOODS which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

I don't know about you, but if Paul said (though he was literally dictating the Holy Spirit's Words as by the preface in verse one) that an official SDA teaching was a doctrine of demons, personally I don't think I could define it as anything else than a cult. The Holy Spirit through Paul says right off of the bat that they're no longer even part of the faith.

On another note, SDA officially teaches the latter doctrine of demons as church doctrine. Who teaches the former? :)

Edited for clarity.

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proudpapa

Hi EverestoSama

RE: //Not what I was thinking of specifically, but here's something to consider //

I miss read you, I have pondered 1 tim 4:1-3 in relation to SDA some. Let me ponder it some more and research their view about it some more. good point

RE: //On another note, SDA officially teaches the latter doctrine of demons as church doctrine. Who teaches the first? :)//

I am not understanding what you are asking here?? Oh I probably am misunderstanding you here again but are you referring to the RCC

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sermonindex

Oh I probably am misunderstanding you here again but are you referring to the RCC

Bingo! But remember, I didn't even have to mention any names, and the RCC came to your mind in light of what Paul wrote. ;P

E
elected

Proudpapa I read a little what you posted about SDA and my historical understanding of them is that they grew out of the Millerite movement that was born during the second great awakening in America.

William Miller was a baptist preacher captivated with the doctrine of the second coming of the Lord. He "predicted on the basis of Daniel 8:14–16 and the "day-year principle" that Jesus Christ would return to Earth between the Spring of 1843 and the Spring of 1844. In the summer of 1844, Millerite Adventists came to believe that Jesus would return on October 22, 1844, understood to be the Biblical Day of Atonement for that year. When this did not happen, most of his followers disbanded and returned to their original churches." - Wikipedia

A minority persisted and came to understand the year 1844 to be not the Advent of Christ but they:

"arrived at the conviction that Daniel 8:14 foretold Christ's entrance into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary rather than his second coming. This new awareness of a sanctuary in heaven became an important part of their thinking. Over the next few decades this understanding developed into the doctrine of the investigative judgment: an eschatological process commencing in 1844 in which Christians will be judged to verify their eligibility for salvation and God's justice will be confirmed before the universe." - Wikipedia

Their understanding of Heavenly Sanctuary is confusing, they say that, "At his ascension, Jesus Christ commenced an atoning ministry in the heavenly sanctuary. In 1844, he began to cleanse the heavenly sanctuary in fulfillment of the Day of Atonement."

Their doctrine of investigative judgment that supposedly started in 1844, has no biblical basis at all and its a theological innovation.

Their teaching of annihilation of the unrighteous or conditional immortality is unscriptural and their abstinance from pork or unclean food, together with their observance of the Sabbath makes them partly "old covenant keepers".

Despite their sabbatical legalistic tendency or dietary laws of OT, on the essentials of faith necessary for salvation Adventists are orthodox christians. To quote from Wikipedia,

"Adventist doctrine resembles trinitarian Protestant theology, with premillennial and Arminian emphases. Adventists uphold teachings such as the infallibility of Scripture, the substitutionary atonement, the resurrection of the dead and justification by faith alone, and are therefore often considered evangelical.[19] In common with certain other Christian churches, they believe in baptism by immersion and creation in six literal days."


Two influencial evalgelicals from the last century had this to say about SDA:

"They are sound on the great New Testament doctrines including grace and redemption through the vicarious offering of Jesus Christ 'once for all." -Donald Barnhouse

"...it is perfectly possible to be a Seventh-day Adventist and be a true follower of Jesus Christ despite heterodox concepts..." - Walter Martin

Walter Martin was an expert on cults and he is considered the father of counter-cult apologetic movement within evangelisalism.

**edited

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sermonindex

Their teaching of annihilation of the unrighteous or conditional immortality is unscriptural and their abstinance from pork or unclean food, together with their observance of the Sabbath makes them partly "old covenant keepers".

Unfortunately, what this makes them are a people severered from Christ.

(NASB) Galatians 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Paul wrote that they've departed from the faith.

(NASB) 1 Timothy 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

(NASB) 1 Timothy 4:2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

(NASB) 1 Timothy 4:3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

Two influencial evalgelicals from the last century had this to say about SDA:

"They are sound on the great New Testament doctrines including grace and redemption through the vicarious offering of Jesus Christ 'once for all." -Donald Barnhouse

"...it is perfectly possible to be a Seventh-day Adventist and be a true follower of Jesus Christ despite heterodox concepts..." - Walter Martin

Walter Martyn was an expert on cults and he is considered the father of counter-cult apologetic movement within evangelisalism.


No matter what great theologian or expert says they're orthodox, it would be great disservice to any SDA to not tell them that they're following the works and words of a false prophet, and have been severed from Christ.

We're not allowed to make a further distinction or exception on something the Spirit has explicitly said, that I'm aware of.

E
elected

Brother I think you are being hasty in your judgment concerning this matter. I am not an Adventist and I dont agree with them on certain doctrinal points but on the fundanmentals of faith they are evangelical to the core.

I copied and pasted for you this from Wikipedia about the fundanmentals of their faith:

1. That God is the Sovereign Creator, upholder, and ruler of the universe, and that He is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.
2. That the Godhead, the Trinity, comprises God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
3. That the Scriptures are the inspired revelation of God to men; and that the Bible is the sole rule of faith and practice.
4. That Jesus Christ is very God, and that He has existed with the Father from all eternity.
5. That the Holy Spirit is a personal being, sharing the attributes of deity with the Father and the Son.
6. That Christ, the Word of God, became incarnate through the miraculous conception and the virgin birth; and that He lived an absolutely sinless life here on earth.
7. That the vicarious, atoning death of Jesus Christ, once for all, is all-sufficient for the redemption of a lost race.
8. That Jesus Christ arose literally and bodily from the grave.
9. That He ascended literally and bodily into heaven.
10. That He now serves as our advocate in priestly ministry and mediation before the Father.
11. That He will return in a premillennial, personal, imminent second advent.
12. That man was created sinless, but by his subsequent fall entered a state of alienation and depravity.
13. That salvation through Christ is by grace alone, through faith in His blood.
14. That entrance upon the new life in Christ is by regeneration, or the new birth.
15. That man is justified by faith.
16. That man is sanctified by the indwelling Christ through the Holy Spirit.
17. That man will be glorified at the resurrection or translation of the saints, when the Lord returns.
18. That there will be a judgment of all men.
19. That the gospel is to be preached as a witness to all the world.

They believe in total distruction of sinners in the lake of fire (annihilation) and not in an everlasting conscience hell. Erroneous and unscriptural is their view of annihilation of the sinful soul after the last judgment but are they going to be rejected by Christ one day if they believed him as their Lord and Saviour, only because they kept the Sabbath or believed the wrong teaching of annihilation?

Absolutely not, the bible tells us loud and clear that whosoever believes on the Lord Jesus will be saved. It does not say brother, unless you believe all the correct doctrines of the bible, you will not be saved.

The gosple is Jesus Christ, its a PERSON and his work on the cross that we are commended to believe, in order to be saved. Whoever believes according to the Scripture, the gosple of Jesus Christ will be saved.

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sermonindex

So then the Holy Spirit and Paul must have been mistaken in saying that those who teach and practice these types of SDA doctrines have fallen from grace, departed the faith, and are separated from Christ, yeah?

But purity of doctrine (didaskalia, the teachings of Jesus) isn't that important I suppose. 99% water, 1% arsenic. Thirsty? (You can just drink the water and spit out the poison.)

:P

E
elected

"Galatians 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

Thats true everyone christian who seeks to be justified by the law submits again to the yoke of slavery. The law cant justify but only condemns us, since their is no one who has kept the whole law of God perfectly, except our Lord Jesus Christ.

Brother understand that Paul was writing the Galatians who were in danger of being deceived by a false gosple. The gosple that says, "do this and you shall live and be justified", the gosple of works based on the law of Moses. Those Judizers in the Galatian Church were trying to convince the gentile christians to circumcision and keep the Law in ordor to be justified.

Now you are applying the doctrine of justification by the Law to SDT but they made it clear in their fundanmentals of faith that Justification is by Faith in Christ. Where do they say that to be saved you have to keep the law apart from faith?

Ok, they try to keep the 10 commandments, the Sabbath included. But tell me where does it say in the NT that if you keep the Sabbath and not Sunday, you will not be saved?

Or their choice to be vegitarien or not to eat pork, does that mean they are not under grace, because in their conscience they believe this OT teachings are still applying to them?

You know that there are born again messianic jews who keep the Sabbath but they know that they are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus.

Even in the apostolic church their were alot of jewish christians who were still keeping rituals and dietary laws of OT. Peter was one of them that seperated from Gentile converts when some brethren from James came to meet them. It was thanks to Paul who had the courage to withstand him in from of the others of his hypocrisy, so that others will know the freedom of Christ.

What about the Jerusalem Council that prohibited the gentile christians, "eating meat containing blood, or meat of animals not properly slain?"

What about Paul who conformed sometimes to the proscription of the law when occasion required? (1Corinthians 9:20)

He even circumcised Tithomy because of the Jews(Acts 16:1–3) and he was himself observing mosaic ritual in the Temple before he was arrested in Jerusalem (Acts 21:26).

Does that mean that Paul was bound by the law? Absolutly not, is was his way of becoming all things to all men that by all means he might save some.

I have a question for you brother. A christian who believes he is justified by faith In Jesus Christ, even though he keeps the Sabbath or is vegetarian, do you think he will lose his salvation?


- edited

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proudpapa

RE:///I have a questioan for you brother. A christian who believes he is justified by faith In Jesus Christ, even though he keeps the Sabbath or is vegetarian, do you think he will lose his salvation?///


Romans 14
King James Version (KJV)

1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

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proudpapa

the Manichaeans Gnostics forbid both certain meats and marriage they fulfill 1 Timothy 4:3
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth they also could not believe the Christ came in a literal flesh.

I wounder If Paul as John where both warning of the future infilteration of Manichaeans Gnostics doctrines into the Church.

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sermonindex

I have a questioan for you brother. A christian who believes he is justified by faith In Jesus Christ, even though he keeps the Sabbath or is vegetarian, do you think he will lose his salvation?

Nope. But a choice is one thing (ESPECIALLY if it's for the sake of one's testimony to those that they're reaching out to, IE, the examples you mentioned), a church doctrine is another. Those in the SDA, have swallowed these things as doctrine. And it goes much deeper than what you'll find on Wikipedia. These are not recommendations by the SDA, these are requirements.

I've heard enough testimonies from former SDA members who also state that it is something that they've been saved OUT OF, and that it's not in line with the full council of Scripture (especially the more you know if it's teaching and history).

I mean, at core, the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, and even the Roman Catholics will all say that they're saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. But are we all really meaning the same thing?

Brother understand that Paul was writing the Galatians who were in danger of being deceived by a false gosple. The gosple that says, "do this and you shall live and be justified", the gosple of works based on the law of Moses. Those Judizers in the Galatian Church were trying to convince the gentile christians to circumcision and keep the Law in ordor to be justified.

Explain how this is any different than members in the SDA being told that they have to keep the dietary laws and the Sabbath in order to be justified? One thing they forgot to mention is that Sunday observance is considered the Mark of the Beast by Seventh Day Adventists. Yes, if you worship on Sunday, you've received the mark of the Anti-Christ. Since we're on the subject of false gospels and all...

Also, lets not even get started on the false prophet Ellen G. White that they follow.

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sermonindex

I wounder If Paul as John where both warning of the future infilteration of Manichaeans Gnostics doctrines into the Church.

Most certainly. But they were also warning about anyone, in any time to come who would teach such things.

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PaulWest

The Holy Spirit definitely saw this issue regarding meats and Sabbath days posing a real difficulty to believers at some future point. This is why He inspired Paul to write verses such as:

I Corinthians 10:31 "So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God"

Colossians 3:17 "And whatever you do or say, do it as a representative of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through him to God the Father"

I Corinthians 8:8 "It's true that we can't win God's approval by what we eat. We don't lose anything if we don't eat it, and we don't gain anything if we do."

Romans 14:17 "For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Romans 14:21: "It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble."

I Corinthians 8:13 "So if what I eat causes another believer to sin, I will never eat meat again as long as I live--for I don't want to cause another believer to stumble."

These and other verses bring me great relief, for they bring the focus back down to where it belongs: Liberty in worshiping God from a clear conscience and unfeigned charity towards our neighbor. To the pure all things are pure. The enemy is forever trying to distort this and bring the focus of our attention exclusively down to an object like meat or a Sabbath day and make the object a law unto itself. It is a very subtle shift, yet extremely effective. It throws everything out of kilter and perverts the glory of the New Covenant. It kills. All those scriptures I posted above (and there are many others than bespeak of the same freedom governed by a heart right with God) are encapsulated within the umbrella of Colossians 2:16-17:

"So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths, for these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality."

And Hebrews 10:1:

"The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves..."

What we need to determine is whether the SDA is teaching man cannot be saved unless he abstain from meats or become a sabbatarian. If it is, then the "doctrine of demons" accusation applies. If they do not, but acknowledge the New Covenant liberty for man to "do all things to the glory of God" and still be accepted in the beloved, then we can have fellowship. It is when a group legalizes these things (in other words, makes it a crime to either partake in or abstain from), where serious error comes into play.

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proudpapa

Hi Brother Paul

RE: Brother Paul wrote ///What we need to determine is whether the SDA is teaching man cannot be saved unless he abstain from meats or become a sabbatarian. If it is, then the "doctrine of demons" accusation applies. If they do not, but acknowledge the New Covenant liberty for man to "do all things to the glory of God" and still be accepted in the beloved, then we can have fellowship. It is when a group legalizes these things (in other words, makes it a crime to either partake in or abstain from), where serious error comes into play.///

good thoughts. I am open to any official Statements offered by The SDA.

I will repost my previous post from there official websight

/// Relationships with Other Christian Churches and Religious Organizations

To avoid creating misunderstanding or friction in our relationships with other Christian churches and religious organizations, the following guidelines have been set forth:

1) We recognize those agencies that lift up Christ before men as a part of the divine plan for evangelization of the world, and we hold in high esteem Christian men and women in other communions who are engaged in winning souls to Christ.

2) When interdivision work brings us in contact with other Christian societies and religious bodies, the spirit of Christian courtesy, frankness, and fairness shall prevail at all times.

3) We recognize that true religion is based on conscience and conviction. It is therefore to be our constant purpose that no selfish interest or temporal advantage shall draw any person to our communion and that no tie shall hold any member save the belief and conviction that in this way the true connection with Christ is found. If a change of conviction leads a member of our church to feel no longer in harmony with Seventh-day Adventist faith and practice, we recognize not only the right but also the responsibility of that member to change, without opprobrium, religious affiliation in accord with belief. We expect other religious bodies to respond in the same spirit of religious liberty.

4) Before admitting to church membership members of other religious organizations, care shall be exercised to ascertain that the candidates are moved to change their religious affiliation by religious conviction and out of regard to their personal relationship with God.

5) A person under censure of another religious organization for clearly established fault in Christian morals or character shall not be considered eligible for membership in the Seventh-day Adventist Church until there is evidence of repentance and reformation.

6) The Seventh-day Adventist Church is unable to confine its mission to restricted geographical areas because of its understanding of the gospel commission's mandate. In the providence of God and the historical development of His work for men, denominational bodies and religious movements have arisen from time to time to give special emphasis to different phases of gospel truth. In the origin and rise of the Seventh-day Adventist people, the burden was laid upon us to emphasize the gospel of Christ's second coming as an imminent event, calling for the proclamation of Biblical truths in the setting of the special message of preparation as described in Bible prophecy, particularly in Revelation 14:6-14. This message commissions the preaching of the "everlasting gospel to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people" bringing it to the attention of all peoples everywhere. Any restriction which limits witness to specified geographical areas therefore becomes an abridgment of the gospel commission. The Seventh-day Adventist Church also acknowledges the rights of other religious persuasions to operate without geographic restrictions. ///

http://adventist.org/beliefs/other-documents/other-doc5.html

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sermonindex

What we need to determine is whether the SDA is teaching man cannot be saved unless he abstain from meats or become a sabbatarian.

From the official Adventist.org Fundamental Beliefs page (You guys should have really just checked their website):

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a CONTINUING AND AUTHORITATIVE SOURCE OF TRUTH which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Here's a personal favorite quote of mine from their "prophet" Ellen G. White. (And I've heard a testimony from someone from the former academic circle of SDA pastors that this statement is actually hers, despite their efforts made to pass the blame)

"Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men."

19. Law of God:
The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. (Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)

20. Sabbath:
The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

22. Christian Behavior:
We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)

So these are a part of their OFFICIAL FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS.

John 4:24

"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit AND truth." (Potentially the most important usage of "and" in the Bible IMHO).

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proudpapa

Hi EverestoSama

I am not finding by what is posted that the SDA is teaching man cannot be saved unless he abstain from meats or become a sabbatarian..

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sermonindex

Perhaps you didn't read the fundamental beliefs page? These are beliefs that are CORE to the SDA. These are a package deal. What do the SDA have to do to "maintain" salvation? Notice that Paul says that those who give heed to doctrines of demons have fallen away from faith, he didn't say they never had faith, but that they have fallen away from it. This is what the SDA teaches. I've posted from their official site.

These are the Holy Spirit's Words through Paul calling this the doctrine of demons. I didn't write them.

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proudpapa

EverestoSama you may be right, I have to go to work now and will look into it more later. I thank you for your consern and zeal for the truth.

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sam09

Dear all,

I had some dealings with the SDA church (in UK) for about 2 years while at university and also was engaged to a SDA. I also attended their church for a short period and went to their bible/sabbathstudies. I would say you would have to go through their church and ministry to truly understand their beliefs. You cannot really understand what they believe just from looking at their belief statements.

There are many nice people I met at SDA church, but I came to see but the utter mercy and grace of God from the scriptures that they believe another gospel . Are there truly born again people in SDA church?- only God knows, if there are it would be a very dangerous place to remain as a believer (just my opinion). The book of Galatians I feel deals thoroughly with the problems I found in the SDA church - ultimately salvation by works: e.g keeping the Sabbath(which is seen as the seal of God).

Other areas of real concern:

-Ellen G White is seen as one of the founders of SDA church, alot of her writings are intertwined with the beliefs of the SDA, she is held in very high esteem, not all who go to SDA church know to much about Ellen G White, but sooner or later you will come across are writings, either quoted from the pulpit or through their sabbath studies.

-Investigative Judgement doctrine (which is not at all supported by the Bible).
'The Investigative Judgment is a complex doctrine, unique only to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It is complex because the Scriptures have been twisted and manipulated to make this doctrine appear Biblical. Most SDA Church members probably would not be able to explain it without SDA/EGW material in front of them to guide them. 
The doctrine of  I J has been the most controversial and debated doctrine within the SDA Church since it's invention. Ellen White put her visionary stamp of approval on the I J. and the SDA Church cannot discard this doctrine without admitting Ellen G. White was a false prophet' -Robert K. Sanders
-Failed prophecies - attempting to predict the coming of the Jesus, of which the Bible says no one knows, only God.

helpful books

The cultic doctrine of the SDA by Dale Ratzlaff
The White Lie by Walter T. Rea
The Truth About Seventh-day Adventist Truth, by Dale Ratzlaff
Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff

God bless you

Sam

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sermonindex

Thank you so much for posting, Sam.

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PaulWest

What do the SDA have to do to "maintain" salvation?

Friend, do you know the answer, or are you just asking rhetorically? I can actually provide statements from SDA publications that say many believers in other protestant systems not sharing in the SDA's convictions, though wrong, are yet children of God and saved. Granted, there are many things I do not agree with in SDA theology, but I am not finding salvific exclusivity being put forth in their literature (and this is very important when we are wanting to level cultistic and demonic accusations at them). I am in disagreement on a few mainline Pentecostal tenets as well, such as the ordination of women, the doctrine of uniform initial evidence, the obligatory tithe, pre-tribulation rapture. If the SDA church doesn't eat meat, that is fine; let them abstain from meat and go to church on Saturday and do it as unto the Lord. If they do it as unto the Lord, it is really none of my business what they do. I do not judge their salvation in this matter, yet I will tell others I cannot endorse their errant theology (bordering on heretical even on some points). 1 Corinthians chapter 8, I feel, speaks into this situation with inspired precision.

Ellen White is their prophetess from which came the error of Investigative Judgment among other things; likewise I believe Charles Fox Parham is the Pentecostal prophet from which came the error of Uniform Initial Evidence among other things (I understand he also adhered to annihilationism). I can fellowship with a Pentecostal believer, but not with a UPC-er. This is because the UPC is a cult and professes exclusivity in that only those baptized in the Holy Spirit with tongues are saved. If the SDA denomination is teaching that believers who eat meat and go to church on Sunday cannot be saved, then they should be labeled a cult as well.

From what I understand, these points are not clear. The experts in Christian apologetics are divided on the topic. This is why, in some evangelical Christian cult books, the SDA denomination is not considered a cult. They are, however, in error on many crucial points - the most weightiest probably being the doctrine of annihilationism. Walter Martin, a prominent Christian apologist and the author of the book "The Kingdom of the Cults" does not label the SDA a cult, though he has done extensive research on Adventist theology. Dr. Anthony Hoekema in his book "The Four Major Cults", however, considers the SDA a non-Christian cult system. So there is a division. Martin persuasively refutes Hoekema's assertions in the "Kingdom of the Cults".

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sermonindex

Just go down to any SDA church, and tell them that you'd like to join, and be a full fledged member. But then tell them that in good conscience you're going to continue eating pork, and worshiping on Sunday ("Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible." (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23)
"The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark." (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281.), and that you know for a fact Ellen G. White is a false prophetess (who you are required to acknowledge as an authoritative source of doctrine and further revelation beyond Scripture), and that the doctrine of Investigative Judgement is Scripturally insupportable. See if they'll still let you become a member.

When they deny you, look up the Greek definition of "heresy" (αἵρεσις), and tell me that the SDA is not a cult.

Or you can just save time and read the things that their "prophetess" taught online, or check out numerous testimonies of former SDA members. Either or.

Just because they "officially" acknowledge that there are people saved outside of their group doesn't carry much weight. The Catholics and Mormons officially state the same as well.

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PaulWest

Just go down to any SDA church, and tell them that you'd like to join, and be a full fledged member. But then tell them that in good conscience you're going to continue eating pork, and worshiping on Sunday

1 Corinthians 8:9; Romans 14:21. To do what you propose would be selfishly wrong on many different levels, not to mention contrary to God's Word. You seem to be missing the point, and I will be locking this thread before things get more skewered.

Someone joining the SDA church would obviously have to already be in agreement with their doctrine (or doctrinally neutral and thus able to acquiesce). It would therefore be disingenuous to join any movement you disagree theologically with, while fully intending in "good conscience" to rebel and observe ordinances that you know will put them at odds with you. It's a sham.

Friend, we all know the SDA church has serious theological errors on several points. This thread will now be locked. In the future when discussing debatable topics among the evangelical Christian community, it would go better for you if you remained scholastically objective and refrained from the emotional pronouncements of anathema and the demonic. There is definitely a time for the latter, but it needs to be pronounced within the context for which Paul originally intended.

Brother Paul

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