Who needs delivarance, casting out of evil spirits?

E

Etuna Sep 19, 2012

Hi,

Are things of "spiritual husbands" and such really true? Can one's life really be in shambles because of spritual bondage that can only be cast out through delivarance? In Jesus's name of course. I watched a channel that just mostly deald with casting out of demons but it jist led me to have many questions.

Some of these people are born again Christians, even pastors that seem to be living by the word, yet were still in "bondage".

Please assist? I have a brother that showed so much promise but suddenly started behaving extremely strangely and was later diagnosed schizophrenic since 2005. (please mind spelling). We've prayed and fasted and still are praying and we believe that he will be freed, and will live normally in Jesus's name.

I know that God frees many through delivarance, Yes, but is that sometimes the only way? And are there only a few people that can do this?

E

Etuna Sep 19, 2012

Might i add that sometimes these "spirits" speak back through the person and can even reveal that the entered the person through sex, anger etc.

I would add a youtube link but im not sure that that would be very wise.

J

Jeremy221 Sep 19, 2012

Blessings and Curses by Jacob Prasch

Topic: Curses

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=11881

This might help.

M

mguldner Sep 19, 2012

Might i add that sometimes these "spirits" speak back through the person and can even reveal that the entered the person through sex, anger etc.

These are called soul ties, I'm reading in Joel right now and we can see Israel was tied to their sin, they broke fellowship with God. But we also see an awesome thing Chapter 2 verse 11-16 These verses reveal biblical repentance is a rending of the heart and not just outward grief and sorrow and that God is much stronger than the sin we struggle with. It also reveals who God is in all this verse 13"...He is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding in Lovingkindness"

There is an old song I use to sing "Trust and Never doubt Jesus will surely bring you out! He's never failed me yet"

God is still in the delivering business and He does it His way and in His timing.

D

DEADn Sep 19, 2012

I do not have any answers to the issue at hand but it is a good time to ask this question. Is this condition demonic or is it a sickness? If it is a sickness how they does the person react and work out the power of God in his life? If it is demonic then it may come down to a matter of prayer and fasting but you have to seek the leading of the Holy Spirit in such a case.

E

Etuna Sep 19, 2012

O, thank you very much for that audio Jeremy... I like how he began "Ours is not a God of confusion".

He teaches that the old has died when we confess and become born again Children of God. The old has passed so any curses or demonic bondage has died with the past.

E

Etuna Sep 19, 2012

Thank you for your responses as well mguldner and Deadn, they are very much appreciated as well.

I'm still hoping some more responces come through:-)

S

sermonindex Sep 20, 2012

You know, it's easy to talk down about this subject now or listen to sermons from preachers that have no clue what they are talking about because they themselves don't have the gifts of the Spirit, but when Revival comes, we may as well mark it in stone now, the Church is going to be equipped with the gifts of the Spirit and they are going to be shocked to see that Christians need some devils cast out of them.

Right now, we can debate, talk about it, listen to sermons from dead beat preachers, and the like. But right now, we are just playing with toys, when the real stuff comes along, it won't be toys we are playing with, it will be real lives, real people, needing real deliverance.

If a preacher doesn't have the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I can't even lend my ear to him because he has nothing to offer. His offering is philosophy and theological education. Spirit must impart Spirit, if he doesn't have it, he is wasting peoples time. They talk great swelling words about the gifts of the Spirit and they themselves reject it. They talk about order and won't allow the moving of the Spirit of God in their midst.

It's easy to say that Christians can't have spirits yet look at us today. We can say it and sit back and relax in our OSAS position and not have to be bothered with 'false teachings', yet, no where in the entirety of the Old Testament did anyone start casting out devils until the Kingdom of God came near in the day of Jesus Christ, when He was casting out devils out of His own people.

Why?

Because what Jesus was doing was spiritual. It wasn't like His Old Testament counterpart where everything that was fleshy to show a spiritual application to which we can see now, but then, it was not seen but only a rare few. Up until John, it was the law and the prophets after that the Kingdom of God was being preached.

The only thing that changed was the way we enter into the Holy Place. No longer by the law of sin and death, namely the flesh but by the Spirit by faith we are justified in His sight.

I am not talking to the old ears that won't budge, but I am talking to new ears and ears that should consider everything before casting it down because of some preacher that doesn't know anything about the subject.

Isn't God wonderful?!

S

sermonindex Sep 20, 2012

Blessings and Curses by Jacob Prasch
Topic: Curses
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=11881
This might help.

Best sermon I've heard on the subject. I have the extended more in depth version as well by the same speaker on my hard drive. If anyone wants to listen to it, shoot me an email and I'll host it for you.

S

sermonindex Sep 20, 2012

they are going to be shocked to see that Christians need some devils cast out of them.

I'd like to see a Scriptural example of anywhere in the NT were we see a Spirit-filled believer having anything cast out of them. Just one. That's all I'd need.

S

sermonindex Sep 20, 2012

I'd like to see a Scriptural example of anywhere in the NT were we see a Spirit-filled believer having anything cast out of them. Just one. That's all I'd need.

Oh but you won't get one brother, there are none. Nothing direct mind you, only hints and warnings given by our Lord and the Apostle Paul.

Just so that we are on the same page, the preacher that was mentioned in this thread regarding "Blessings and Cursings", I was in no way referring to him in my postings about dead beat preachers.

If your Spirit FILLED, there is no room for the presence of other spirits. I personally hate the way this is worded because it's just not right. Paul tells us to be filled with the Spirit, not, "Spirit filled", it gives the impression that a person has arrived and not the way the Apostle tells us to be continually filled with the Spirit all the time.

Since he words it this way, and if we should ever let down our guard it will leave a gap in the field. Being filled with the Spirit is the same as putting on the whole armour of God. Many people end up in the pigpen if left too long eating what the pigs are eating, thus enter the deliverance ministry.

Brother, only the person who is seeking deliverance and obtains it is the most grateful. If he was filled with the Spirit, we would never see him for there is no need because he is filled with the Spirit. But if he loves the Lord but can't understand why he finds himself in so much filth and the oil that is in him is being drained, than through discernment are these things exposed.

Now, let me be perfectly clear about something. Paul said, "In me, that is my flesh, dwelleth no good thing".

The casting out of devils out of a Christian, is the casting out STRONGHOLDS that are too strong for the believer to overcome and it's being cast down from this "flesh". Some brethren can actually overcome this, while others need other brethren to pray with them and still others need more help and this is where the power to exercise authority over these strongholds that reside in the place that Paul says, "dwelleth no good thing".

What is being done here is the devil that is causing so much havoc in a brothers life through a habitual sin is weakened so that the brother can overcome and stand on it. The problem is still in his flesh, but it's no longer the predominant thing that is ruling in his mind. He can pick it up again if he wants to that is his choice, but strongholds will appear because they want to fortify the situation so that it will be much harder for anyone to get rid of them, the last state of that man is worse than the first.

To say that a Christian can have devils in his spirit is completely wrong. These devils work through the flesh and harass the mind so much that the believer can't think straight.

U

used4him Sep 23, 2012

OK, I will settle this argument, because I personally as a Spirit baptised, tongue-talking believer have had a spirit cast out of me. I am sure I have had more than one, but the obvious one was a spirit of despair. I was still walking with the Lord but somewhat discouraged. I had this heaviness in my chest, I believed it was a spirit. I had just started going to a new church. I went and spoke to the pastor and woman's leader about this. The woman suggested I see a medical doctor and get my heart checked out. (I never did) They did share scripture with me and pray a healing prayer over me. Nothing much changed. Then months later, I went to a retreat, and I went forward for general prayer. The next thing I know, my hands are being annointed with oil, they start shaking uncontrollably, and as the person is praying for me, I feel completely suffocated, my chest was getting heavier and heavier like I couldn't breath. As soon as I heard the words "spirit of despair come out in Jesus name", a heaviness came off my chest, my breathing was normal and my hands stopped shaking. That was years ago, and I have been free. I have other stories too, of other believers I have known, who could testify of things like this. Think of it this way: when we get saved, the Holy Spirit seals our spirit-satan can't get in. However, he can still influence our body, our soul (emotions)and our mind. When one gets saved, can they still have physical ailments? yes! And these can also be caused by demons.

M

MPS Sep 23, 2012

This is a very interesting subject for me.

I'm fairly sure that I too have something "demonic" going on about me. I've been to a deliverance ministry recently and came home from there just as much oppressed as I did before I went to the deliverance folks. Not to slight them at all, but it didn't seem as if anything really happened. I totally clammed up and there were no manifestations that appeared.

I have never been nearer to Christ in all my years of being a Christian as I am now, but I back slid a few years ago and am struggling more than I believe I should be with an out of control thought life and obsessive and sometimes suicidal thoughts that I have no control over at all.

Any suggestions appreciated.

S

staff Sep 23, 2012

Hi Mps,
My first meeting as a christian was a healing and deliverance type meeting 24 years ago.The man who lead the meeting was a man of God and recorded in writing the testimony of any one that was healed or delivered at the meeting.He had at that time 3000 written testimonies.He sold all that he had and gave to charity,so he was no sham artist and not in it for money.My time their ended and I went home and went to a pentecostal church and only last year did I began to think about deliverance.I am a big fan of Yacob Prasch also.
To the best of my understanding a believer can have a demon in the outer court sort to speak but not in the holy of holies.What I mean is that a demon can attach himself to your body and soul but not your spirit.
Think about this if a christian cannot have a demon then all demons have to leave the exact moment a person becomes born again.As I have said before the likes of Billy Graham has brought thousands and thousands to Christ but we didnt see any demons leave(demon activity) not even on a few .
Also if a blind person who is blind because of a demon comes to Christ then that person should see immediately the Holy Spirit entered the person.After I realized this last year I realized that a Christian can have a demon.
On the other hand I have been delivered from depression without anyone laying on hands.The thing is though whatever door is open to allow a demon have domain would have to be closed otherwise you end up worse than you began.
One poster mentioned that he was looking for one scripture to show a Christian being delivered from a demon but I could ask for an example of a person being saved and indwelt and a demon leaving them immediately after the indwelling but their isnt.The new testament is not exhaustive with examples.
Unfortunately the con artists of this world are drawn to where the money is.Healing and deliverance is a an area they can exploit just like the people exploiting girl delivered by Paul who was foretelling the future.
Go to your local pentecostal type pastor(not a grab it and blab it type) and explain your situation,
Yours Staff

M

MPS Sep 23, 2012

Thank you for your comments. I do appreciate it a lot.

Due to the lack of deliverance ministry types in my area, I'd really like for someone to refer me to "self help" prayers or techniques that I could rid myself, through Christ, from these spirits.
My wife is the only other person who believes unclean spirits can inhabit a believers outer court, as you mentioned, Staff.

I know my spirit is safe, but it would be nice to have one day without an 800 lb gorilla standing on my head, you know?

To the sister? who was delivered from a spirit of despair.
I know EXACTLY what that feeling is when your chest feels as though it's going to explode from all the anxiety and pressure that's built up. I also get heart palpation with this at times too.

S

sermonindex Sep 24, 2012

I have spirits afflicting me too. I am a born again believer. The way you put it clicks with me: spirit is sealed but outer court/body/soul is afflicted. Derek Prince said the word translated "demon possessed" in the greek is "demonized". He says its a mistranslation. It makes sense to me.

Also Jim Logan who has sermons on this site wrote a book called "Reclaiming Surrendered Ground" and he has a ministry in Sioux City Iowa called Biblical Restoration Ministries. It is a donation based ministry, no set cost to see him. Its a week long counseling session from 8am till noon everyday for 5 days. His sermons on Spiritual Warfare talk about some of his "war stories" and it is good to know there are genuine spiritual warfare counselors out there still (he is getting old though). I've talked to him on the phone, he seems like a wonderful minister.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=1168

bless you guys

S

sermonindex Sep 24, 2012

I totally clammed up and there were no manifestations that appeared.

You have to want to be free.

I know that sounds awful, I know. I've had the same words spoken to me and I just wanted to scream. But he was right. Did I really want to be free? At the time, I had my reservations because there was pleasure in sin for a season and I wanted to return to that whenever that season came around. What I didn't like was the guilt that came afterward. And then I would seek deliverance. That is when he told me that I wasn't serious enough. And he was right.

So really think about your situation. And take into account all the varibles. Jesus said, "If anyman would follow after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross". That is a heavy saying. At the time, I didn't want to take up that cross, I still don't. However, God has caused me to do it in ways that I never thought possible, to be frank, I really didn't know how to take up the cross.

Remember the woman with the issue of blood? She was desperate! She spent everything she had on doctors, and it wasn't getting any better. Her last ditch attempt of getting better was to crawl on her hands and knees and jostle between the legs of the mob following Jesus to get at the hem of His garment. She was no doubt stepped on but she pressed (scripture is silent but the hem of his garment was probably down by his feet).

The mother who had a daughter who was demon possessed was desperate. Faith kept Christ there, He was mesmerized by her faith. He could have left at any time but here she was crying out to the Lord for deliverance and they that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. It was an irresistable moment for God to act. "Oh woman great is thy faith".

When your desperate enough, you won't clam up.

S

sermonindex Sep 24, 2012

good word Approved. thank you. that applies to me too but differently. years ago, falling back into sin and abusing grace got me back under the law. I was just reading Galatians today and I realized what a blessing all this is! I am under the tutor to lead me back to Christ!!! I'm getting closer... once I learn to take up my cross, etc... I believe the "houses" the demons live in will be destroyed and can be cast out.

S

sermonindex Sep 24, 2012

I am convinced that the presence and influence of demons is vastly underestimated in the lives of many believer. And then to make matters worse well meaning theologians play these things down and call them natural sicknesses, mental problems and a host of other things. Demons are very, very real. And they are in the business of discouraging and kicking the stuffing out of christians. Make no mistake about it.

Most of us are loathe to speak about these things though because we don't want to be labelled as one of those folks who "see a demon under every bush". But in so doing we unwittingly play into the devils hands.

There are many scriptures that clearly show the devil is defeated and that christian CAN live in victory. But very few actually live in victory, always full of the Holy Spirit. Our walk with the Lord involves being a soldier in a battle. It is a daily struggle, a wrestling that we endure, but not without hope, because we know that our wonderful Father has given us His Spirit and His armor, so that we may be strengthened in the inner man and protected and made able to stand in the intense battles that come our way. This is the pilgrims lot, and as we follow the narrow way, we must expect opposition and we must expect it to NEVER CEASE. Do you think satan takes a rest or runs away forever when you win a battle against him? Do you think that he will not try again and again to defeat you and to bring you down? He will never relent, he is cunning and cruel and will never show remorse.

The first thing is to know that this is a real fight, a fight to the death. The second thing is to know that Christ has won the victory for you, and in Him you are already victorious and through your faith you will appropriate and see the freedom and deliverance that you seek. You can be an overcomer, but you overcome by faith. If you have accepted your defeated state as "fait accompli", then satan has already won. You must rise up in faith, believing that Christ defeated satan and his power over you, on the cross. You must believe that His blood has power of the devil and his demons and plead the blood on your own life.

Years ago I was sick in bed and in the grip of what I later saw as a demonic attack on my life. I was just lying there, moaning and complaining of my plight, settling in for a long, drawn out sickness and long recovery, as if that was my predetermined plight. Where did that thought come from? To accept defeat, to accept depression, to accept bondage, to accept sickness? It certainly did not come from my Father in heaven. Anyway, with time the sweet voice of the Holy Spirit began to break through the darkness of my soul and the words of a chorus started to warm my heart.

"I cannot be defeated, and I will not quit,
I'm redeemed by the blood of Jesus
and I am loosed from Satans grip,
Jesus fought and He won the battle
and He gave it all to me,
I cannot be defeated,
I'm saved, I'm healed, I'm free!!!"

As I heard these words, I began to quietly mouth them, then I began to sing them and eventually I threw off my blanket and stood to my feet, singing them with great gusto, as faith filled my heart. I began to sing and shout and rebuke the enemy and plead the blood of Christ over me and to thank my Father for His provision to me through Christ.

After several minutes of pray and singing, all of a sudden it was as if a heavy blanket just leaped off me. The heaviness of soul fled away, my sickness and fever vanished and I was completely healed and set free.

Many believers today are bound by demons at some level but they have come to accept this as their lot in life. They have also been confused by teachings about "God will" etc but they have not spent time in the presence of the King, because if they did they would hear Him say, "I have come to give you life and life more abundantly"!!!

The Kingdom of God is obtained not by the casual onlooker, but those who take a "violent" approach to their faith and will not accept the bile and vomit that satan pours upon them. I pray that you will rise up in Jesus name and claim by faith your healing spirit, soul and body and by faith seek God for the overflowing of the Holy Spirit, casting off all traces of the enemies hold on your life and your loved ones.

Brother Mark.

S

staff Sep 24, 2012

Hi MPS and Others,

I do have a scripture I believe from the Lord that will help you,I have posted it before but it has come to my mind again.
In the passage below Jesus casts out demons into pigs.
Note one thing-THAT PIGS/ANIMALS HAVE NO SPIRIT!
That means that the Spirits must have been inhabiting the body of the Pig not the Spirit for that brief period of time.That then means that they also can inhabit the body not the Spirit of a person.They cannot inhabit the Spirit of a Person probably anyway whether it is Filled by the Holy Spirit or not whether the person is saved or not.

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" 30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs." 32 He said to them, "Go!" So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water

yours Staff

M

MPS Sep 24, 2012

By "clamming up", I meant during the deliverance, nothing came forth. I just sat there. They said to NOT try and make something happen, so maybe I didn't do my part.

As an aside, what you mentioned about wanting to be free really hit me. I believe Jesus asked the invalid at the pool of Bethesda if he "wanted to be well".
I will prayerfully consider these things.

Wilt thou be made whole?

Thanks for the comments!

S

staff Sep 24, 2012

HI MPS and Other,
I just noticed that the scripture below shows that after the demons were cast out the person was in his RIGHT MIND.That means that the demons were affecting his mind as well as his body;a thing we know anyway from his behaviour but this scripture shows that theologically demons can effect/possess both body and mind and not spirit.

15 They came to Jesus and observed the man who had been demon-possessed sitting down, clothed and in his right mind, the very man who had had the "legion "; and they became frightened.
Yours Staff

U

used4him Sep 24, 2012

Dear MPS: I really do relate to you in your statements. I had gone to a few genuine deliverance ministries, and nothing happened. I wanted something to come out, so I could be free. Funny how I went forward that one day, not for deliverance, just for general prayer...and then I got it! I believe the best books on deliverance were written in the 70's. Wasn't the church in a type of revival then? Now in most churches, even charismatic, they know nothing about it. Derek Prince, Don Basham, Frank Hammond are a few. Neil Anderson has written a great book called The Bondage Breaker, it's probably over 10 years old. You can get deliverance yourself, however, best to go to a few strong believers and have them pray over you. I agree, some ministries out there are hokey. Pray for discernment, they must be balanced. Deliverance is biblical, it was one third of Jesus's ministry.

Here is a scripture I wanted to share. It was brought to my attention years ago. We could apply it to why we are not "instantly" delivered of everything. "I will not drive them out from before you in one year, lest the land become desolate and the wild beasts multiply against you." Exodus 23:29&30.

R

rufnrust Sep 24, 2012

The Syrophenician woman in Mark 7:24-30 who's daughter had a devil and was healed and delivered as it says the devil went out of her. Jesus called this "the children's bread"

Only the desperate need apply.

Ruf

U

used4him Sep 24, 2012

I wanted to add on to what Awakened had to say earlier. He said that he was sick, felt it was demonic, and started to sing to the Lord. It reminded me of a story (true) that a sister told me years ago. She had dabbled in satanism. Then she got gloriously saved, but was going to a church who thought the gifts, including deliverance, was not for today. She was sitting at home, and started praising the Lord out loud. All of a sudden she saw demons come out of her, screaming! She was totally freaked out, not knowing what was going on. Unfortunatly, she went to a pastor who told her that her mind was playing tricks on her. When she told me the story, I was still not a christian, and didn't have any real advice, but thought it was interesting. Now of course, I know what happened. She got miraculously delivered! Thank you, Jesus!

L

Lordoitagain Sep 24, 2012

Here's an interesting video where Donnie McClurkin tells of being delivered from the bondage of homosexuality even after many years of being a gospel singer:

http://youtu.be/K7RgNzr1RKM

I found some other videos where he appeals to a national convention for the youth of the Church of God in Christ regarding his own struggles:

Part 1
http://youtu.be/7hcRHrTpYh8

Part 2
http://youtu.be/b3PWB4aDSHU

Part 3
http://youtu.be/dY_tIkP2BIs

S

sermonindex Sep 24, 2012

By "clamming up", I meant during the deliverance, nothing came forth. I just sat there. They said to NOT try and make something happen, so maybe I didn't do my part.

Ah yes, I do understand. I was told the same thing and nothing really happened, though I did begin to weep and this feeling of despair had left me. But as for some manifestation, nothing happened.

Now, I know God works against me when I imagine that He is going to do it this way or that way. It never happens the way I expect it to happen. So I have had to train my mind to stop premeditating on how something is going to pan out. When I pray about something, I have to just forget about it and leave the whole thing to the Lord and to let Him surprise me. I find that when I forget about what I prayed for and believed that what I had hoped for He will take care of it, and I will see the results of that when I have forgotten about it.

He has always done that with me, you may think the same way as I.

The one thing that He always reminds me, and that is,`your flesh will not glory in my presense`. And I know what He means. I have a servants heart. If I see that you need something, I will do everything that I can to get it for you or if I see that you don`t have enough, I`ll try to make up for the lack. I`d be the first one to get the tool before you ask for it. And I can see why God would want me to drop off the request to Him and leave it there and not conjure up the answer myself. For years the way I prayed and the trying to bring it about myself plagued me until I had to let it go and let God work the miraculous behind the scenes while I wait.

S

sermonindex Sep 24, 2012

"I will not drive them out from before you in one year, lest the land become desolate and the wild beasts multiply against you." Exodus 23:29&30.

Amem and Amen!

This verse has been a great comfort to my walk with the Lord.

If the land was completely cleared out of all it`s problems at the onset we`d become desolate because we`d forget the Lord that bought us and pride, stiffneckedness would set in and the last state of that land would be worse than the first.

But little by little causes us to continually call upon the Lord for deliverance and each time He becomes the strength of every province He takes in our lives so that in the day that we have completely conquered the Land, we can say, it`s no longer I that liveth and the life that I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God.

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

M

MPS Sep 24, 2012

Amen!

God has already done so much and delivered me of a truck load of sinful refuse and I will continue to believe Him for more and more!
Thanks for the encouraging words!

(Edited for glaring spelling error.)

E

Etuna Sep 24, 2012

Wow, thank you all so very much for your responses brothers and sisters, bless you for sharing!

I had a bit of a situation at home so i didnt log in these past few days.

MPS, You are blessed (She who is forgiven of much, loves much - Luke 7:47) - Seek him and you will find him, Be assured and courageous in your return to your father's arms and know that nothing, Nothing can ever separate us from his love (Rom 8:35).

Thank you for that scripture about pigs/ body/spirit Staff, Perhaps the "greater things" than he, that Jesus prophesied are also these of casting out demons from believers as well?...

If casting out of demons from my brother can be done in our Lord Jesus name than i'd really love to see him get such a chance because right now he's in a pitiful state. I find it hard to believe that its God's will for him to be the way he is right now, disconnected from us, and more importantly from Him.

Thank you again lovely siblings:-) Kindly continue to engage (if you will) please, it's almost always a pleasure to read your thoughts.

In the end, May the Holy Spirit advice our spirits in this matter.

Tina/Etuna

C

crusader Oct 7, 2012

Hi All

I would like to say that i really apreciated the spiritual maturity of these posts. along time ago i raised a similar subject and i didn't get the discussion or awnsers that i was seeking (my fault at the Time) Recently the Lord showed me more areas of my life that i needed to surrender to him, as i sat for months trying to surrender this area i was unable to which lead me to a darker place and yet my understanding and direction was more focused towards God then it has ever been.

Anyway to cut a very long story short i was frightened to go through deliverence by my self that i had organised a pastor to fly down to my city and help me through this (i knew this man personally and now his walk and authority in Jesus to be genuine. before i was going to fly him down. a father of the faith crossed my path and i said the matter to him and he said to me what a wonderful opportunity for me to stand in the power of jesus christ and learn to trust him and stand in him. After this i felt that i wanted to trust Jesus that he will deliver me and truley believe that i am his and that through my faith i would be delivered. i fasted for 4 days in total. on the 3rd day i felt a leading to listen to dereck princes sermon on expelling demons. as i was listening to him and trusting that the Lord would deliver me, i started saying the renouncing prayer he was going through and i felt my whole body go into an electric shock. God showed me later that the electric shock was excactly like when i was at the dentist getting a root canal the dentist put a needle in my nerve and the shock of the pain went right through my body like an electric shock. Then my jaw opened and i yarned out what ever it was but durring this the Lord said to me don't be afraid so i went through this with all of my will. Since that time ive noticed a massive difference in my understanding of the Lords relationship with me. I trusted him in faith acted in him in faith and his strength carried me.

All i know is this that what happened to me has strengthened my relationship with christ and i truley apretiate deeper undersanding for what he did for me on the cross and he showed me this love the other night personally. My faith has increased knowing that Jesus knows what i need and will keep me safe as i humble my self and surrender things to him that are eluminated by the light of his truth as i push fourth into his presence. be blessed brothers and sisters. Jesus is alive, he has authority and is willing to move in those that surrender their lives to him.

T

Trekker Oct 7, 2012

QUOTE: "One poster mentioned that he was looking for one scripture to show a Christian being delivered from a demon but I could ask for an example of a person being saved and indwelt and a demon leaving them immediately after the indwelling but their isnt."=Staff

Legion. At time of conversion.

S

staff Oct 7, 2012

Hi Trekker,
You know that sounds like a good answer but it isnt.
a.The demons of legion were cast out at time of conversion and didn't leave without Christ intervention compares lets say to a person who at a Billy Graham crusade gives their life to Jesus and becomes Born again that moment they come forward.
b.At time of Conversion the Holy Spirit had not been given and the two men were not indwelt of the Holy Spirit at that time.
Yours Staff

S

sermonindex Oct 7, 2012

As I posted earlier, there is no pin pointed scriptures that we can turn to and say, "Aha, there it is". But I will say that it is hidden in the scriptures and ONLY the seeker who is seeking deliverance will find it for God will illuminate them.

For the person who does not believe that such things are there, then to them it does not exist. We must remember that whatsoever a man thinketh so is he. If he doesn't believe that these things are so, let him be. But he too should let it be as well, because people are finding freedom and the devil is not in the business of setting people free.

S

staff Oct 7, 2012

Hi Approved,
I dont think sidelining the correct teaching is the answer.
Ministers who correctly believe the teaching that a christian can have a demon will be marginalized by those in the body who have in my opinion the wrong teaching.
Either it is correct or not we cannot sweep it under the carpet just in case we offend?This is not a matter of dietary beliefs or sabbaths etc.
What happens then is a division in the body where one preacher cast out demons and another says he is a false teacher but in reality the one that cast out demons is correct.
We cannot water down the bible we must preach the whole gospel whether it suit our palate or not,
Yours Staff

S

staff Oct 7, 2012

Hi all,
I have put this on the other post "PIGS HAVE NO SPIRIT" as well,

The person who has a deaf and dumb demon could not become a Christian according to some peoples belief without prayer and fasting.And only if the prayer and fasting is successful.The belief I am talking about is that "a Christian cant have a demon"
I wonder how the Christian Deaf Association would respond to that?
Yours Staff

...........................................................
Mark 9:17
And one of the crowd answered Him, "Teacher, I brought You my son, possessed with a spirit which makes him mute ; 18 and whenever it seizes him, it slams him to the ground and he foams at the mouth, and grinds his teeth and stiffens out. I told Your disciples to cast it out, and they could not do it." 19 And He answered them and said, "O unbelieving generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him to Me!" 20 They brought the boy to Him. When he saw Him, immediately the spirit threw him into a convulsion, and falling to the ground, he began rolling around and foaming at the mouth. 21 And He asked his father, "How long has this been happening to him?" And he said, "From childhood. 22 "It has often thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, take pity on us and help us!" 23 And Jesus said to him, " 'If You can ?' All things are possible to him who believes." 24 Immediately the boy's father cried out and said, "I do believe ; help my unbelief." 25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was rapidly gathering, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "You deaf and mute spirit, I command you, come out of him and do not enter him again." 26 After crying out and throwing him into terrible convulsions, it came out; and the boy became so much like a corpse that most of them said, "He is dead !
...........................................................

S

sermonindex Oct 7, 2012

What happens then is a division in the body where one preacher cast out demons and another says he is a false teacher but in reality the one that cast out demons is correct.

There are going to be divisions. We can't escape them.

Christians who struggle with a stronghold the demon spirit is not in their spirit, it's in their flesh where no good thing as Paul said, dwelleth.

I do not subscribe to the idea that if a preacher does not believe that Christians cannot have a demon spirit in their flesh that it will water down the word or the gospel. Every man must be convinced of the truth and if he is not convinced of this teaching, than he is not convinced, let him go on preaching the gospel.

There will always be divisions. Even in the revivals that come there will be divisions, it's inevitable. Paul gave himself to the Church weeding out these things but then he said that when he was gone, ravenous wolves would come in and they would not spare the flock. Those wolves exist today in the form of Denominational-ism.

S

sermonindex Oct 7, 2012

I wonder how the Christian Deaf Association would respond to that?

First off, I'm not sure this is a large organization or not, but Google rendered no hits on the name.

Secondly, are you implying that all deafness is caused by demonic activity? And that these Christian members of said association are all deaf because they are afflicted with a demon?

S

staff Oct 7, 2012

Hi Everestosama,
No of course not i am not implying that all deafness is caused by demon (i noticed you used demon activity;possession is the term used in scripture)activity as you can have sickness caused naturally and sickness caused by demons.I dont know how much deafness is caused by demons but certainly some is.
Their are many Christian deaf organisations of one type or another on the web.

However you missed my main point.
Which is: Jesus said that this type of demon -can not go out but with prayer and fasting-

If you believe that a Christian cannot have a demon then this person who had a demon that caused deafness cannot be saved but by prayer and fasting as the demon would have to be expelled and that could only be done by prayer and fasting.Which would be ridiculous....
Yours Staff

S

sermonindex Oct 8, 2012

i noticed you used demon activity;possession is the term used in scripture)

I used this term simply because possession is never used in Scripture with a born again believer. Not even once.

If you believe that a Christian cannot have a demon then this person who had a demon that caused deafness cannot be saved but by prayer and fasting as the demon would have to be expelled and that could only be done by prayer and fasting.Which would be ridiculous....
Yours Staff

What's ridiculous is the idea that the Holy Spirit would share residence. He doesn't take up room mates. Especially with His enemies.

S

staff Oct 8, 2012

Hi Everesttosama,
Sorry it is totally your right you dont have to answer if you dont want but you have side stepped the point.I have put forward these points earlier
A-Demons dont occupy a Christians Spirit so the Holy Spirit is not a room mate(pigs dont have spirits)
B-If some demons can go only as Jesus said after prayer and fasting then the people with those type of demon can not be saved according to the logic of those who say"Christians cannot have demons" until the demon is removed by prayer and fasting.

Your qoute-
What's ridiculous is the idea that the Holy Spirit would share residence. He doesn't take up room mates. Especially with His enemies

The book of Acts deals with the time after Jesus assended and it primarily deals with how the gospel spread and in doing so shows how the apostles declared the gospel to Jew and Gentile unbelievers,a great part of this was evangelizing which is only done with non Christians and in evangelizing the Apostles cast out demons.If it were to be recorded it could only be recorded in Acts and Acts mainly deals with evangelizing.
Another point Why bother casting out demons if a demon is automatically leaves when we become saved?We should just lead them to the Lord and the demon will be gone except Jesus doesn't say that in fact he commissions us to Cast out demons,
Yours Staff

S

sermonindex Oct 8, 2012

The book of Acts deals with the time after Jesus assended and it primarily deals with how the gospel spread and in doing so shows how the apostles declared the gospel to Jew and Gentile unbelievers,a great part of this was evangelizing which is only done with non Christians and in evangelizing the Apostles cast out demons.If it were to be recorded it could only be recorded in Acts and Acts mainly deals with evangelizing.
Another point Why bother casting out demons if a demon is automatically leaves when we become saved?We should just lead them to the Lord and the demon will be gone except Jesus doesn't say that in fact he commissions us to Cast out demons,
Yours Staff

I didn't say that we're not to cast out demons. Simply that we don't see any evidence of them ever being cast out of a Spirit filled believer in the Bible. None. You will continue to keep coming back to this point. Acts gives us accounts, but the epistles give us doctrinal examples of the Christian life. Acts and the epistles mention nothing of casting demons out of believers, yet they address every other possible issue that a believer will come up against. If it was such a big deal in normal Christian living, Paul and the apostles kept awfully quiet about it, which would seem strange.

-If some demons can go only as Jesus said after prayer and fasting then the people with those type of demon can not be saved according to the logic of those who say"Christians cannot have demons" until the demon is removed by prayer and fasting.

Yeah, I don't see what's wrong with that. We don't see any record of conversion and then casting out. It's always first the casting out, then salvation. Unless I missed a passage where the opposite happened. If I can be shown in the Bible where someone had first received salvation and then had to have the demons cast out of them (in Greek "ekballō") where there is no record of them backsliding or apostasy, I will seriously reconsider my stance on the issue (honestly).

S

staff Oct 8, 2012

Hi Everestosama,
As regards examples my point is that their are precious few examples of demons being cast out in the first place as Acts largely deals with the evangelism and the spread of the gospel.Its called after all the "acts of the apostles"
Acts and the epistles addresses giving but it does not address tithing.
Also where does it say that we are not to cast out demons out of Christians.Where is that scripture in acts or the epistles?Paul has kept very quiet about it.Surely nothing is new under the sun and if we have Christians casting out demons out of Christians now then the same thing must have happened then and Paul says nothing of this problem.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Acts gives us accounts, but the epistles give us doctrinal examples of the Christian life. Acts and the epistles mention nothing of casting demons out of believers, yet they address every other possible issue that a believer will come up against.
-----------------------------------------------------------

As to Conversion what you are saying a-is that some people can not get saved unless a demon is cast out
b-some other people like the person with the deaf and dumb demon cannot get saved unless their is prayer and fasting and then the demon is cast out.

So this type person with a deaf and dumb demon cannot for instance go to a Billy Graham type meeting and give their lives to the lord at an Altar call??and be filled with the Spirit.Why did we see many thousands come to Christ in these meetings and no casting out?
Yours Staff

L

LUVRULZZ Oct 8, 2012

I have a friend who needs deliverance from demons.. Please pray for him that God delivers him.. In your prayers please lift him up by name -> Avinash Victor

C

crusader Oct 8, 2012

Hi Staff

I appreciate what you are saying in fact i appreciate everyone's comments on this subject as it helps me to chew the cud and really ask those hard questions in my heart as to what foundation of teaching i have and if it lines up with the word of God and letting it be strengthened. (this is directed to no one on this site) I can say this that i work in a place with Christians that don't believe Christians can have a demon and that they are locked and sanctified the day they became Christians. They forcefully stand and try to push this on me regularly. so i have learned that i need wisdom approaching this. the fruit i see with these guys all of them! is the lack of awareness of Satan workings in the church, there families and work place. Many times they say things in the flesh proclaiming that it is from God. they constantly use the law against each other and lack understanding of Gods Grace and mercy working in someones life and put burdens and condemnation on those around them.

I love these guys with all my heart but there ears are closed to any discussion in this area. is it really that bad that as Christian's we sit before the God almighty to ask the Lord to search our hearts and remove any unclean thing that may there causing us to fall or being blocked in our spiritual walk with Jesus. Many strong preachers that have been tried and tested in the past and their fruit have been from God believed that Christian's can have demons, much of this believe came about because of the need in churches at the time to cast the demons out. They didn't use this understanding for their own benefit but for the benefit of those that came to them with problems asking for freedom. Dereck Prince and Milton green where a couple of these christian's. I hope i haven't up set any one with this reply as it seems to hit a raw nerve in many people that have drawn a line in this area.

J

jimp Oct 9, 2012

hi, many years ago my dear friend steve and i were part of a church where revival was going on and miracles were happining... steves dad was dr. harvey bostrom who was the dean of trinity evangelical divinity col. after serving as dean at moody. he was coming to visit us the next weekend and come to church . we prayed that nothing wild would happen during the service, then sunday came and we were in the second row and in the middle of worship a woman sitting in front of steve started to shake and scream obsenities and the pastor said "jim,steve take care of that"we jumped the pew and cast the demon out of her and prayed for her to be filled with the spirit. she calmed down immediatly.many got saved and healed during that service.at lunch i asked dr, bostrom what he thought of the service... he said that it was the most new testament service he had been in in years. in my life time i have been in many great services where the Holy Spirit delivered ,healed masses of people , saved many,one dead man raised so i know that Jesus is alive and still writing the book of acts .jimp

U

used4him Oct 9, 2012

Wow Jimp, thanks for that awesome testimony. As I have shared in a previous post on this thread, I was a born again believer, and had a spirit cast out. Acually, it happened months after I was saved, then again about 29 years later. (I also believe some could have come out without me knowing it, such as during praise) As far as a scripture to back this up, there are few, and there are also few describing born again believers being healed, but we know that Christians can and do get healed. Technically, there were no born again believers before Jesus ascension. Try substituting the word possession with demonized, or the greek word which is "daimonizomai". The demons cannot be in man's spirit, only the "outer courts" as one poster said, or the body or mind.

S

sermonindex Oct 10, 2012

Whoever is saying that Christians can have a demon in their spirit is grossly in error. When we receive the Holy Spirit we are sealed.

Imagine bacteria getting into your pickle jars AFTER you've sealed them, the whole batch would be no good. The principle applies here. There is no way that these unclean spirits can enter that part of man who has been cleansed and sealed by the Holy Ghost. Jesus speaks of that regarding the wineskins. The old wineskins is not the flesh of man but the spirit of man which was dead in trespasses and sins. (Dead meaning we were separated from the life of God). And it wasn't enough to repent, no, the whole creation of man had to change, it had to be born again, to raise it from the natural to the spiritual. The new wineskins if you like is the new man that has been born from above and now can hold the fullness of the Godhead bodily (our spiritual body).

This flesh on the other hand, John is instructed not to measure it but to leave it out. It's not to be apart of the spiritual Temple of God. In that outer court is what we wrestle with daily. Paul says that nothing good dwelleth. It's here that demons can attach themselves.

No, your not going to find direct scripture quotations from the word regarding this subject, but as I said before they are hidden and can be drawn out if one is willing to see it. And if your not, well your not. Praise God, lets serve God together.

A believer who is overrun by these hindrances and feel quite swallowed up by a besetting sin, once he has knowledge of what is going on in his flesh, he can immediately arrest the operation of these evil spirits and cast them down to the ground as David did with his enemies and ground them to powder and threw them to the wind. Sometimes a brother may need help. He should seek out brethren that are spiritually stronger who have experience in exercising their faith.

I am giving you knowledge about that besetting sin that many have in their lives today. Don't hide from the facts, face them in Jesus name. You have more power than you think. They do not want you to become the man of God that God has called you to be, because that would mean defeat for them. So stand up and stand firm against it and in Jesus name they will have to come out.

For others more power will need to be exercised and prayer and fasting is a must. Why does God want us to pray and fast?

Prayer and Fasting is like a sacrifice.

When Jesus was in the wilderness for forty days, He was in prayer and fasting. The setting was set, was He going to be like Esau and sell His birth right for a piece of bread (for He was starving) or was He going to sacrifice His flesh and deny it?

There is great power when a man sacrifices his life for the cause of Christ. God can use that man wonderfully.

Notice it says, "Your disciples "tried" to cast him out". This tells me they were casual about it. "This kind cometh not forth but by prayer and fasting". We have to get serious with these things. They will just sit back and laugh us to scorn when they do not see that we are serious. We can use the name of Jesus until we are blue in the face, but when we get serious about it, and coupled with faith in the name of Jesus, than they will shake with fear.