Can an Evangelical Christian Vote for a Mormon? by Franklin Graham

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sermonindex Oct 11, 2012

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2011/December/Exclusive-Franklin-Graham-on-Voting-for-a-Mormon/

As Newt Gingrich makes gains in the polls, GOP candidate Mitt Romney is speaking more about his faith and the role religion has played in his life.

Speaking Friday in Sioux City, Iowa, Romney said there needs to be more discussion of religion in the public square.

Romney is a practicing Mormon and even shared with voters his experience as a young missionary in France.

But many evangelical Christians have reservations about Romney's beliefs. In a recent poll, 41 percent of evangelical voters said they would not vote for a Mormon.

Should Mormonism be a deal breaker for Christian voters?

Rev. Franklin Graham spoke with CBN News Sr. Reporter George Thomas about this. Graham also talked about God's judgment on America, how the country is off-course, and the need for a "new kind of politician."

Click play to watch. Read the transcript below:

Thomas: The Washington Republican establishment appears that they are gunning for Mitt Romney. Can a Christian vote for a Mormon as president?

Graham: Yes, the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon doesn’t bother me. I think when we are voting for president we need to get the person who is absolutely the most qualified. You can have the nicest guy and he can be a Christian and just wonderful but have absolutely no clue as to how to run a country, you don’t want that. You want somebody who understands Washington, who understands government, who understands how to bring people together so that we can move this country forward. Mitt Romney is a very capable fellow, I know him; I know Newt Gingrich, another very capable person; Michelle Bachman, a very capable lady; Rick Santorum, I like a lot, very gifted guy, a very sharp and so there are some good candidates out there.

Thomas: How would you encourage Christians in the United States to pray for the upcoming elections?

Graham: Well, we need to pray that God would give the right man or right woman to lead this country. I believe we are, that this is probably the most critical election in my lifetime.

Thomas: Why?

Graham: Because our country is heading on the wrong course and we are going the wrong direction. There are millions and millions of people out there that are out of work and there are people out there now that have been out of work so long they are not even looking for work because they are so discouraged. People have lost their homes, they’ve lost their livelihoods and the politics in Washington right now is not helping. We are not solving these problems and this is from the president right on down through Congress.

Thomas: How do we pray then, how do we pray specifically?

Graham: We pray that God would, and this could be God’s judgment and He could be judging this country for the rejection of His Son and our government, our government leaders have turned their back on God and His laws and His statutes and we need to pray that God would give us a new crop of politicians, I don’t care if they are republicans or democrats, but who fear God and who will put God’s standards above everything else and who will take us back to the God of our fathers and that’s what we need to pray but right now our country is going in the wrong direction we need to make a change.

Stay with CBNNews.com, Tuesday, for part two of Franklin Graham's interview with George Thomas.

Graham discussess his views on Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, the resurgence of political Islam and what the United States should be doing to protect minority Christians in the Middle East.

Originally aired on Friday, Dec.16.

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InLove Oct 11, 2012

This bothers me because first he says that, " I think when we are voting for president we need to get the person who is absolutely the most qualified", but then goes on to say that. "our government leaders have turned their back on God and His laws and His statutes and we need to pray that God would give us a new crop of politicians, I don’t care if they are republicans or democrats, but who fear God and who will put God’s standards above everything else and who will take us back to the God of our fathers and that’s what we need to pray but right now our country is going in the wrong direction we need to make a change." Which is it? Sure someone can be both, but most won't be.

The problem is, I believe that no true Christians are in these positions and I pray that if one does stand up, us as a Christian people would stand together and put him in office. I don't care if he is the best qualified by this world's standard! David was qualified by God and that's the type of person we need desperately.

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sermonindex Oct 11, 2012

Yes, an evangelical Christian can vote for a Mormon and be quite comfortable with it. But then.the average evangelical, Christian has compromised his faith with the world. And feels no grief over his sin.

Now can one who denies himself, takes up his cross daily and follows Jesus Christ vote for a Mormon? My answer would be no. Because one who follows Christ in this fashion realizes his citizenship is in heaven. Such a person has crucified himself to the world and is cleaving as unto Christ.

Such a disciple will not grieve his Lord by voting for a cultist controlled by an antichrist spirit.

Bearmaster.

.

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InLove Oct 11, 2012

Are we to vote then? I believe we should vote even if it is a non-Christian. I don't want the one whose in to stay in, but I don't want the one that's running in, but I have to choose.

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sermonindex Oct 11, 2012

Why do you feel the need to vote? Why do you feel the need to choose? Where is this found in tbe New Testament? You are a citizen if heaven. You are an ambassador of Christ. An ambassador does not get involved in the affairs of the nation he is stationed in. An ambassador represents the interest of his home nation. You represent the interest of Jesus Christ. Your mandate from the King is to preach the gospel and make disciples. Not vote in ungodly elections.

Bearmaster.

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InLove Oct 11, 2012

Bear,

I won't post anymore about this because I believe it will not profit anyone. I'm not mad or anything like that, but we just see it differently and I'm ok with that. I want to say this thought, I want God to effect everyone and I'm sure you do as well, but I want to get involved with as much of the world as I can. I mean, to be holy, righteous, justified, all by Christ, and in the world to be that light upon a hill. I know this though, the Spirit of God is in me and I'm surrendered to His will! He is leading me down His paths and I'm trying to follow as clearly as I can and if He shows me to do something or not do it I pray I do those things.

Blessings!

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 11, 2012

Bearmaster,

As I have pointed out previously, there are many sincere believers here who will vote. You shouldn't make suggestions or insinuations about our spiritual conditions.

Please season your posts with the grace to at least acknowledge that many believers do not share your opinion. Please refrain from suggesting that we have compromised our faith, feel no grief over sin...or that we don't preach the Gospel and make disciples...or haven't been crucified with Christ or retained our citizenship in Heaven.

Do you understand how your opinion can come across as condescending when it includes such insinuations or assumptions?

There are many sincere believers who meet with Christ daily in intimate prayer, worship and study of God's Word who might still feel a need or liberty to vote for one candidate over another in the election.

We may not agree on something like this. However, we should not conclude (especially in public) the worst of those with whom we may disagree on these (or other non-essential) matters.

We should encourage others to pray about it all...before they vote...and let the Holy Spirit lead and guide others in all such matters.

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sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

Chris if you chose to participate in the election then that is your perogative. But seeing that these two candidates are controlled by an antichtmrist spirit I will raise my voice and cry an alarm. I will encourage those who will listen to flee Babylon.

But brother are you aware of tbe urgency of the hour?. Chris do you see tbe reality of the world around you? Are you not aware of the coming storm of persecution? Does it not cross your mind that either one of these candidates will accelerate that persecution? Are you not aware of the deception of tbe evil one.

Chris you seem to think that this is a matter of political opinion taking place in an academic environment. Chris this is a matter of spiritual warfare and demonic forces. These forces are real. I say again these are demonic forces at work and they are real.

Satan is weaving a deceptive web over evangelicals and they are falling for it hook, line, and sinker. Some even prepared to call Mormons brethren in Christ. And that is wrong.

As long as I have breath I will cry alarm. Though my voice will fall on deaf ears I will cry aloud for God's people to not participate in an election where two candidates controlled by demonic spirits vie for tbe highest office in tbe land. The answer is simple. Flee Babylon and cleave unto Jesus.

Bearmaster.

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ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 12, 2012

Chris if you chose to participate in the election then that is your perogative. But seeing that these two candidates are controlled by an antichtmrist spirit I will raise my voice and cry an alarm. I will encourage those who will listen to flee Babylon.

I encourage you to join me as we all flee Babylon. However, this includes the SPEECH and LANGUAGE of Babylon -- including the insinuations, assumptions and condescending remarks that are reminiscent of the children of Babylon.

But brother are you aware of tbe urgency of the hour?

Of course. I mention this in many of my posts, yet you continue to ask.

Chris do you see tbe reality of the world around you?

Of course.

Are you not aware of the coming storm of persecution?

Again, I have voiced as much in many of my posts. Why do you ask a question that should be obvious by the content of my posts on the subject? It is as if the question itself -- and each question like it -- is an insinuation.

Does it not cross your mind that either one of these candidates will accelerate that persecution?

One of these candidates already has.

Are you not aware of the deception of tbe evil one.

Again, this is a ridiculous question. How would you appreciate it if I asked you these same questions in many threads on this and other topics? Would you feel like the question itself is assuming the worst in you?

But, in answer to your question, YES. Yes, I am aware that Satan is a master of deception and the father of lies.

Chris you seem to think that this is a matter of political opinion taking place in an academic environment.

No, I don't.

Chris this is a matter of spiritual warfare and demonic forces.

The same is true of EVERYTHING in life -- including work, paying taxes, educating your children, etc... There is a spiritual war going on...but that doesn't mean that I get out of taxes or can sit around on SermonIndex collecting a government check (or living off of other believers) instead of getting up and working for my wife and family.

These forces are real. I say again these are demonic forces at work and they are real.

You don't have to tell me. I know that such things are real. I have seen things that I don't post here; however, please understand that I -- like all believers -- know such things are real.

Satan is weaving a deceptive web over evangelicals and they are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.

He has been doing this for thousands of years. Thankfully, through much intimate prayer and study of God's Word, I will not fall for his devices.

Some even prepared to call Mormons brethren in Christ. And that is wrong.

No one ever said differently. In fact, many of us have stated this same thing repeatedly. Yet, many of us feel that we can vote for Mitt Romney despite his religious views.

As long as I have breath I will cry alarm.

There is a difference between "crying" an "alarm" and insinuating that those who disagree with your opinion are guilty of the types of things that you insinuate. It would be helpful if you could make a distinction.

Though my voice will fall on deaf ears I will cry aloud for God's people to not participate in an election where two candidates controlled by demonic spirits vie for tbe highest office in tbe land.

Oh, believe me, we aren't "deaf." We hear you do this over and over again. However, it doesn't mean that we necessarily will agree with your opinions or that you are right. It also doesn't give you a right to insinuate or suggest the worst of those with whom you disagree.

The answer is simple. Flee Babylon and cleave unto Jesus.

Amen! It would help if you understood that we ARE fleeing Babylon. It would also help if others didn't try to insinuate that those with whom they disagree are refusing to do so.

Chris

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rainydaygirl Oct 12, 2012

by bearmaster on 2012/10/11 16:10:39

Yes, an evangelical Christian can vote for a Mormon and be quite comfortable with it. But then.the average evangelical, Christian has compromised his faith with the world. And feels no grief over his sin.

Now can one who denies himself, takes up his cross daily and follows Jesus Christ vote for a Mormon? My answer would be no. Because one who follows Christ in this fashion realizes his citizenship is in heaven. Such a person has crucified himself to the world and is cleaving as unto Christ.

Such a disciple will not grieve his Lord by voting for a cultist controlled by an antichrist spirit.

Bearmaster.

---

bear, i don't vote because i follow the conviction of my heart but none of us has the right to say these kinds of things to another brother/sister in Christ because they are following their conscious before Christ and voting. You have said these kinds of things before and brother it just is not demonstrating the love of Christ to imply that other believers are less devoted to God or not grieved over their sin because they vote. You are judging the hearts of others based on your conviction and that is not right. How do you know that those who vote do not grieve over their sin? Has God given you a special word of knowledge, has He reveled the heart of another for you to see into? Please i ask you to consider, reread what you wrote here and think about what you have said, do you really know the heart of every brother and sister in Christ who chooses to vote that you can really stand by this post?

rdg

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sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

2 Cor. 11:3.......But I am afraid that just as Eve wa deceived by tbe serpents cunning, your minds nay somehow be ked astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

2 Cor. 11:14-15.......And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end eill be what tbeir actions deserve.

In light of the above verses Mit Romney is far mire dangerous and deceptive then Barrack Obama is. One knows tbe policies of this president. But a man comes out of a deceptive Satanic cult and speaks morality and the evangelical church goes Gaga over him. He is moral they say. Saints it was the moral majority who put Jesus to death.

I have no doubt many will get Mitt Romney to be tbeir leader. And you will rejoice. But remember Israel when they asked for a king. And remember Israel again when they told Pilot we have no king but Caesar. Israel paid dearly. And so will tbe evangelical church in tbeir support of Romney.

Saints I implore you. Please do not give in to the deception. Listen to tbe SI messages of the conference. Heed tbe urgency of tbe hour. Flee Babylon and cleave as unto Christ. For God is calling a people to be separate as unto him.

I remind you again that it was the moralist of Jesus day who out him to death. And it will be the moralist of our day who will persecute the saints of God.

Bearmaster.

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rainydaygirl Oct 12, 2012

bear, how can you say Mitt Romney is more dangerous or deceptive, both men are fallen, both are sinners living for self, both are enemies of God and children of the enemy so how can one be worse then the other. both are in need of prayer, you speak of praying for the lost how many times have you prayed for either of these two men? Mitt Romney is not past saving, pray for him and president Obama both need prayer for their salvation. you say Mitt Romney is the leader of a cult religion, president Kennedy was the follower of a cult religion and God used him for his purpose and he will use whomever wins the next election for his purpose as well. nothing takes God by surprise, after all the one who wins is put into power by God.

i have appreciated much of what you have shared but i still ask you to reread your other post, your words were very judging toward other believers.

rdg

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ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 12, 2012

Bearmaster,

You are making assumptions again. No one is going "gaga" over Governor Romney. No one is endorsing the cult that he belongs to. Some people just think that he would be a better president.

You don't know whether or not Mitt Romney will be elected (regardless of the lack of doubt that you claim).

You can share your opinion...but you need to face the fact that many believers will listen to your opinion and disagree with it. You have no right to dismiss our faith and make vile suggestions about the condition of our faith.

It is a good thing to listen to the messages from the conference. It is a good thing to flee deception. It is good to understand that there is urgency in this hour. It is a good thing to "flee Babylon." However, you need to understand that this is true of ALL of us. To suggest otherwise can be a sign of spiritual pride that is publicly raised over those who you don't agree with.

None of us are being "moralists." If you are accusing anyone of this, then you need to stop. You also need to come to the realization that there are many believers here who want all of the things that you do in your life...but they may have a difference of opinion with you in regard to voting in November or deciding that one person might be better suited for the job of president than the other.

M

Miccah Oct 12, 2012

Bearmaster,

On this topic, it may be wise to "dust off your feet" and move along. Speak to those who will listen and hear.

Nothing personal against my Romney voting brothers and sisters, but it pains me too much to see deception fall inside the family.

I love you all, but this is deception.

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 12, 2012

I agree, Miccah. I often feel like dusting my feet on this matter too. However, it is continuously brought up.

Long ago, I pondered why we couldn't just share our view (making note that it is just that -- our view) and ask the brethren to PRAY intently before they make any decisions.

I do understand that you and some others think that it is "deception" if a person decides that Mitt Romney might be a better choice for president and, after prayer, feels the liberty or unction to support his candidacy. I understand.

Clearly: I hate Mormonism. I hate Catholicism. I hate Liberation Theology. However, I also pray long and hard about this -- as do many of the believers for whom some very condescending words are spoken (or, in this case, typed).

I do love you, Brother Miccah. However, we must leave some things up to the Holy Spirit. Let the Lord lead us. There is nothing wrong with sharing our view...especially when backed with Scripture...and then allowing the Lord to have His work.

After all, many of us are sincerely praying. We spend much time in prayer...daily. As a believer, the election is not high on my list or priorities when I go to God in my prayer closet. I long for HIM. I want to know HIM. I want to please HIM. I hunger and thirst to see HIS face. I desire to do HIS will. Yet, I do bring this up to Him. I search His Word to ascertain His thoughts as well.

The election will be over in a month. After that, I suspect that many believers will turn to squabbling over specific eschatology, Calvinism, Bible versions, the gifts of the Spirit and other such matters. One of the top two candidates will likely be the president. Yet, this doesn't change our need to go to God in prayer or present the Gospel to this lost and dying world.

I love you, brother. I just hope that you understand that this isn't nearly as significant as some would make it out to be...and that it is unlikely that all of us will agree upon this issue. Yet, before and after the election, we can still encourage one another in the faith as we each seek to walk with God.

May the Lord guide each of us.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

I'm not voting for a pastor, I'm voting for a president.

We tend to look back on American history with nostalgia, sort of like David Barton does. It's nothing more than revisionist history. The vast majority of presidents this country have had were not Christians.

The following presidents were members of the KKK at varying degrees of involvement:

Warren G. Harding, Woodrow Wilson, McKinley, Calvin Coolidge, and Harry S. Truman.

Many have claimed that Abraham Lincoln was a Christian, but the fact is that little is known about Lincoln's faith. He was a life long non-church goer. That much we do know. His wife Mary dabbled in spiritualism and astrology.

The same is true for Ronald Reagan, and ironically his wife Nancy also dabbled in spiritualism and astrology. So much so that a lot of Reagan's travel schedule while president was dictated by Nancy's involvement with astology and fortune telling. I'm old enough to remember hearing about this in the secular media, this is not just speculation.

JFK... a Catholic... and a womanizer (adulterer).

Bill Clinton... a Southern Baptist... and a womanizer (adulterer).

Ulyses S. Grant never claimed to be a Christian. Good thing because his administration was one of the most corrupt in all of American history.

Thomas Jefferson was no friend of God's. He was a diest, but denied that Jesus rose from the dead. He took scissors and cut out every single miracle in the Bible. It's called the "Jefferson Bible" and you can see it today on display.

Many of our founding fathers were Christians, there is no doubt. But many were diests and Masons.

So I ask you folks... you who do not wish to vote for a Mormon... what is the difference between a Mormon and any other heathen who has held the office of president?

This much I can tell you: not voting for Romney, or not voting at all... is a vote for Obama. Obama is more than happy to see you sit this one out.

We are not voting for a spiritual leader, altho your religious freedoms are at stake.

The funny thing is that when JFK was running for office everyone freaked out because he was Catholic... and people tried to scare others into thinking that if he got elected the Pope would be the one calling shots for America. That never happened.

Now we are repeating history... vote Romney in and the LDS will control America!! C'mon... no it wont.

If America is in sad shape spiritually it is because of the CHURCH... and not because of who is president. We dont need to vote in a president who is a Christian... the church needs to get on it's knees and get serious about revival!

Besides, knowing this forum the way I do... if someone who was a born-again Christian ran for president there would NEVER be a concensus on here about him! Everyone would pick apart his doctrine, his theology, the denomination he belongs to... and then some here would be upset that he's even involved in politics in the first place... why isnt he a missionary??

So there ya go.

Krispy

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Miccah Oct 12, 2012

Deception: the fact or condition of being deceived.

By definition, those under deception do not know they are deceived.

Sorry if my non-vote will not help get your guy in office. A no vote is a no vote. And I would rather not vote, then fall under deception.

R

rainydaygirl Oct 12, 2012

(krispy quote)This much I can tell you: not voting for Romney, or not voting at all... is a vote for Obama. Obama is more than happy to see you sit this one out.
--

i was agreeing with most of your post until this part. are you trying to "guilt" another believer into voting? some clarifying please??

i don't vote and yeah maybe by not voting Obama wins but its not my responsibility as a christian to vote, it is my responsibility to follow Jesus leading. all i know is i have to follow my conscious just like you are doing. i have prayed hard and long about this and i do not believe God wants me to vote. i will not push my understanding off on another believer and call them a sinner for voting, hope those who do vote can give the same consideration to those of us who feel led to not be involved with this worlds governments affairs.

rdg

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sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

Sorry if my non-vote will not help get your guy in office. A no vote is a no vote. And I would rather not vote, then fall under deception.

So if I vote for Romney I'm being deceived?

ugh... c'mon. Times like these not only call for faith and trust in the Lord... but also for common sense.

Common Sense: Something a lot of Christians dont seem to be able grasp sometimes.

Krispy

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sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

i was agreeing with most of your post until this part. are you trying to "guilt" another believer into voting? some clarifying please??

A preface to everything I say here should be "if the Lord convicts you to a different conclusion than mine... by all means obey the Lord!"

I've been around here long enough sometimes I assume people understand that.

That is a disclaimer to anything I say on this forum, henceforth and forever more.

I never said anything about anyone sinning whether they vote or note. Let's try and stay focussed here and not get hysterical.:-)

Krispy

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

meaningless, vapors, mist, vanity, all of it.

yes, the state of the body politic, as evidenced by that CNN article i pinned up the other day, about how people are turning AWAY from God...away from. that fact is grievous enough, heart breaking enough as these are all like foolish children playing beneath a smoking volcano....what really has me has me smoking like volcano...is this, WHY does anybody with one whit of wisdom, love, mercy....let the fact that we now have, at least, (IIRC) 85,000 of our boys and girls, in uniform parked in that unwinnable hell called Afghanistan, and for what?!?

friends that support the President? i ask them, you scream and holler about this and that, and when i tell you, that your President promised to END our involvement in Afghanistan, and yet says they stay till the end of 2014...and you say NOTHING?....friends that support Governor Romney? they follow the talking points of the Republican candidate, and say the President is weakening the military.....to which i have respond, spending a trillion dollars a year on defense, and maintaining 750 overseas bases is weak? this nation spends more on their weapons, than all the countries of the world combined....but forget about all that...what about the 85,000 troops STUCK in an unwinnable hell called Afghanistan?

to me, that is issue ONE, and nobody speaks about it.

it was much like this in mid 2002 ON THIS FORUM, when many posters HERE, were cheerleading the all too obvious ramp up to the invasion of Iraq in 2003....i kept asking 2 questions, and NEVER got what would even mimic a coherent response,...two questions....why?..and.....what does 'victory' in iraq "look like", what are the conditions of victory?

and many posters, many of whom, say "Lord, Lord"...went head to toe with me, but gave no answers that resembled reality....just mindlessly cheerleaded a President, who was under a cloud of delusion, as they were.

and if any of the posters that went head to toe with me in 2002, remain...what say you NOW about Iraq?....hmmmm?

i'll stop there, with one final sentence, the Judgement that is coming upon this country, will be shattering, and i write that with no joy, neil

L

Lysa Oct 12, 2012

bearmaster wrote:
Yes, an evangelical Christian can vote for a Mormon and be quite comfortable with it. But then the average evangelical, Christian has compromised his faith with the world. And feels no grief over his sin.
Now can one who denies himself, takes up his cross daily and follows Jesus Christ vote for a Mormon? My answer would be no. Because one who follows Christ in this fashion realizes his citizenship is in heaven. Such a person has crucified himself to the world and is cleaving as unto Christ.
Such a disciple will not grieve his Lord by voting for a cultist controlled by an antichrist spirit.

Bearmaster,

I respect you as a brother in Christ but we could not disagree MORE with each other on this issue!!

I would beseech you to be careful on the tones of your words and back-to-back questions because you’ve already run off InLove! :) More important than anything, we are to love one another before we run each other off! Just saying, brother.

I said this when this thing began, I am voting for whoever is running against obama, period. That is my God-given right as an American and heavenly citizen and I’m exercising it! :) And I know that you know the Lord loves you and He still loves me!

Love you in Christ brother!
God bless you my friend,
Lisa

L

Lysa Oct 12, 2012

krispy wrote:
We are not voting for a spiritual leader, altho your religious freedoms are at stake.
The funny thing is that when JFK was running for office everyone freaked out because he was Catholic... and people tried to scare others into thinking that if he got elected the Pope would be the one calling shots for America. That never happened.
Now we are repeating history... vote Romney in and the LDS will control America!! C'mon... no it wont.

Another topic we agree on Krispy!! I think that’s two now!! LOLOLOOLOLOL (forgive me brother, I could not resist!)

God bless you,
Lisa

C

Compton Oct 12, 2012

I have to confess that for myself personally, committing to any of these political platforms dulls the prophetic imagination. I often recall to myself the line "Youre so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshanks' table that you've missed your God-given right to something better."

Blessings,

MC

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

And this is exactly why we are not supposed to debate politics on this forum.

Now we have bearmaster adding works to salvation by stating that no one who takes up their cross daily and follows Christ can vote for a Mormon. So now who we vote for is the litmus test for who is saved and who is not? No he didnt say that in those words, but that is certainly what is implied.

It's fun to come here and pontificate and say brash and bold things. It's easy. I've done it, you've done it... we've all done it.

Nothing brings out foolish talk like politics... and this thread prooves it... once again.

If you vote then vote! Pray before you vote and make sure you know all the facts before you pull that lever. If you dont vote, then dont vote... dont vote as unto the Lord. And if you dont vote please dont post negative stuff about whoever wins the election.

If you're Canadian... keep making maple syrup, y'all got that down to a science!

Krispy

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Lordoitagain Oct 12, 2012

Krispy wrote:

This much I can tell you: not voting for Romney, or not voting at all... is a vote for Obama. Obama is more than happy to see you sit this one out.

Regardless of how any of us stand in this issue of whether or not to vote, Krispy has stated a simple reality that CANNOT be refuted! The political and voting set-up of the United States of America leaves NO room for neutrality.

The only way to avoid voting, or to avoid putting someone in office (by not voting) is to renounce your citizenship and move to another country. If you are talking about fleeing Babylon, I hope you have your passport ready. I have mine ready for that very purpose. This nation WILL crumble one day. I am just praying for God to have mercy on me and allow me to flee to another country (that has mountains --- “flee to the mountains”) before the crash that is coming.

While I am still living in Babylon, I am forced by the laws of Babylon to either vote, or put someone in office by choosing not to vote. Quite frankly, those of us who face that reality are looking at those who are screaming “don’t vote for Romney!” as screaming “keep Obama in office!” Obama has some great supporters in this thread (whether they want to admit it or not)! If you can feel good about putting Obama back in office by not voting for Romney, that is between your conscience and God. I am not trying to pass eternal condemnation on anybody. I am just re-stating the reality that exists in the USA.

We will all give an answer to God for how we handle these important situations. That should strike our hearts with awe and the fear of God, and cause us to pray for our brethren instead of trying to condemn them.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

What does voting for a Mormon has to do with anything?

That is the man's religion.

Obama said that he was a Christian and Christians voted for him left right and crooked.

Obama hid his true identity, he hid behind Christianity and entered through flattery and we were flattered by his flattery.

We know now that Barack Obama is not at all Christian.

But Romney is not hiding behind Christianity, he is more specific. He is a Mormon.

I am not an American.

But if I were voting there, I would vote for Mitt Romney.

Because he is Mormon? No!

Because he is the better choice than all the unrighteous, abominable anti Christian acts of the current administration.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

If you're Canadian... keep making maple syrup, y'all got that down to a science!

Well, not so much all that. That stuff they sell in the stores today is not the real stuff. It's something like politics though, or modern day Christianity, a water down version.

The best maple syrup (which is hard to find) is what they call "Dark Amber. You kind of have to go *ahem* way back up into the back of beyond where a still, er..a..I mean where the sap is boiled to get this. This is the way it was made back in the day, they boiled it down, I mean down down (not bam bam). This thicker ooze that has the consistency of Corn Syrup is what true old fashioned maple flavour that we (at least this canuck) crave for.

R

rainydaygirl Oct 12, 2012

by KrispyKrittr on 2012/10/12 7:41:15

i was agreeing with most of your post until this part. are you trying to "guilt" another believer into voting? some clarifying please??

A preface to everything I say here should be "if the Lord convicts you to a different conclusion than mine... by all means obey the Lord!"

I've been around here long enough sometimes I assume people understand that.

That is a disclaimer to anything I say on this forum, henceforth and forever more.

I never said anything about anyone sinning whether they vote or note. Let's try and stay focussed here and not get hysterical.:-)

Krispy
--

hey Krispy i was so tempted to come back after reading this response and say something like "you are only saying not to get hysterical because i am a woman" but then i figured it might not get taken as the joke i would mean it to be;)

thank you for the preface, thank you for the response. i did not mean for my words to imply that you were saying it was sin to vote or not vote(although I have heard that from both sides) i was just sayin maybe we could all step back give each other room to follow the Lord leading in this and not get caught up in accusing or throwing stones.(again not saying you are)just a reminder for me and some who might need it:)

rdg

M

MrBillPro Oct 12, 2012

After watching the VP debate last night, this scripture comes to mind. :)
Proverbs 29:9
(9) If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

Bill... did you steal that from my Facebook status this morning??

Krispy

(Yes... I have a Facebook page. Another new sin in some people's eyes!...lol)

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

thank you for the preface, thank you for the response. i did not mean for my words to imply that you were saying it was sin to vote or not vote(although I have heard that from both sides) i was just sayin maybe we could all step back give each other room to follow the Lord leading in this and not get caught up in accusing or throwing stones.(again not saying you are)just a reminder for me and some who might need it:)

Rainydaygirl... I'm right there with ya. I think we will be surprised when we get to other side and all things are revealed to us, and we find out what was really sin... and what was not.

We are such narrowminded (a nice way of saying ignorant) people. We want so badly to judge each other, and this forum... frankly... is a breeding ground for judgementalism. Most everyone who comes here considers themselves to be slightly more spiritual than the average Christian, and thats a bad place to start from. It can only go down hill from there. And from those ivory towers upon which we place ourselves we can only look down on everyone else.

I know this because I am guilty of doing this!

The majority of people here, altho they will never admit it, think they are speaking the very oracles of God... and so they speak harshly and judgementally to and about those who may not agree with their every whim. You dont agree with me? Well then you're not a Christian... or as spiritual... or as mature. I see that on a daily basis here.

So much so thats why I disappeared. Made me want to puke. And I was ashamed to realize how often I have been sucked into the same exact thing myself!

So we bawk at fundamentalists with all their rules and laws, and we call them legalists.... and then we turn around and do the VERY SAME THING. "If you vote for a Mormon then you can not call yourself a Christian!", it is said!

I say "Chapter and verse, please!"

I know believers who will be voting for Obama. I dont get that at all... but far be it from me to judge their relationship with the Lord based upon that!

We judge each other over even more stupid things, like music... or hair length... or whatever it might be. And then we have enough gull to judge and label fundamentalists as "legalists". It's laughable and sad all at the same time.

Most here see themselves as more "mature" Christians. I'm going to offend some here, but I believe the fact is that most folks here are actually quite immature.

I include myself in that number at times as well.

I think we all need to talk less and listen more. Pontificate less and pray more. Prophecy less (not that any real prophecying happens here) and worship more. Judge each other less... and serve each other more.

Until we do that we are nothing but a marching band made up of 5 year olds that cant play a lick of music... but sure make a lot of noise.

Krispy

M

MrBillPro Oct 12, 2012

KrispyKrittr
Bill... did you steal that from my Facebook status this morning??
Krispy

Not on FB anymore, I am not going to set and judge FB I am sure it has it's pros and cons. I left, because I had two different "married" women stalking me, and ones husband is a wonderful person, that just has a wife that likes to fool around.I got off the day this woman ask me to visit her at their ranch one weekend, maybe I should not have let these women cause me to delete my account, but my buddy's friendship was more important than FB. I won't even get into the private emails I got from her, and pictures she sent me, I will let you use your imagination. For me personally, FB was not a good experience.

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 12, 2012

Hi Neil,

and many posters, many of whom, say "Lord, Lord"...went head to toe with me, but gave no answers that resembled reality....just mindlessly cheerleaded a President, who was under a cloud of delusion, as they were.
and if any of the posters that went head to toe with me in 2002, remain...what say you NOW about Iraq?....hmmmm?

First of all, I think that you are speaking about the discussions that went on in 2003 (into the 2004 election). If I remember correctly, the forums themselves didn't begin until 2003 (Greg can correct me if I am wrong). I joined in 2003, lost my password, and then created this account sometime later in 2003.

Secondly, I don't remember anyone who was "mindlessly cheerleading" a president. Nor should you have the ability to introduce an accusation at him and say that he was "under a cloud of delusion." This is the type of rhetoric that does remind me of some of those debates in 2008.

If memory serves me correctly, you were very much against the war in Iraq and President Bush in 2003 and 2004. In addition, I remember that you indicated support for John Kerry/John Edwards (although you can correct me if I am wrong about that).

While the war in Iraq was a much-heated debate, it was just one facet of the general discussion over the 2004 election. Many Christian voters were concerned about abortion, support for Israel, the increasing embrace of homosexual activism by the Democrats among a few other issues.

Others, like the late "Pastorfrin," were against the concept of "war" conducted by secular governments given his strong "Christian non-resistance" sentiments. We had many long debates and discussions over such issues and many of those debates were much more civil and friendly when they took place via PMs.

Also, if I remember correctly, you indicated that you were supporting Barack Obama in the 2008 election. You stated your reasons and I truly respected you for having reasons, even if I disagreed with you on those things. In hindsight, those things that I felt concern with regarding Barack Obama all came to pass.

Now, I understand that you feel concern with those who might support Mitt Romney. However, you are the same believer who supported Barack Obama less than four years ago. While your reasons against supporting Mitt Romney might be very valid, wouldn't it be expedient to show the same grace to us that you desired in 2008?

As for your points/questions about Iraq and Afghanistan:

I would certainly be willing to discussion those issues with you. I don't remember your questions from 2003; however, I do have some thoughts on those issues that I would be willing to share with you. If you like, you can contact me via email and I can give you my home phone or cell phone numbers.

Like I said, I think that this debate will continue until the election next month. Then, when someone is elected or reelected, many believers will turn their focus on other pressing issues. I guess that since it is difficult to get believers to agree on issues like music, eschatology, calvinism, Bible translations, etc..., it would be difficult to get us to all agree on something like the election.

One thing is clear: I very much treasure the fellowship here on SermonIndex. While I participate in these sort of discussions (too much I feel), I value the believers here on SermonIndex more than words can say.

Brother Neil, you are welcome in my home. and I would extend the hand of fellowship to you regardless of any disagreements that we might too often focus upon.

I truly believe that we agree much more than we disagree. We just tend to focus on the points of contention. I often neglect participation in threads where I agree, follow to learn or simply don't feel that I have much to add. Yet, I often agree with much of those things that are written.

I think that the same is true of most of us. We all want to know God, walk with Him and see His face. We all want God to refine us and to rid us of any chaff in our lives that is unpleasing to Him. We all see the times for what they are...and that they are growing darker as time grows shorter.

If you would like to talk, please feel free to write me an email. I will send you my phone numbers, brother.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

Then Elisha came to Damascus. Now Ben- hadad king of Aram was sick, and it was told him, saying, “ The man of God has come here.” The king said to Hazael, “ Take a gift in your hand and go to meet the man of God, and inquire of the Lord by him, saying, ‘Will I recover from this sickness? ’” So Hazael went to meet him and took a gift in his hand, even every kind of good thing of Damascus, forty camels’ loads; and he came and stood before him and said, “ Your son Ben- hadad king of Aram has sent me to you, saying, ‘Will I recover from this sickness? ’” Then Elisha said to him, “ Go, say to him, ‘You will surely recover,’ but the Lord has shown me that he will certainly die.” He fixed his gaze steadily on him until he was ashamed, and the man of God wept. Hazael said, “Why does my lord weep?” Then he answered, “Because I know the evil that you will do to the sons of Israel: their strongholds you will set on fire, and their young men you will kill with the sword, and their little ones you will dash in pieces, and their women with child you will rip up.” Then Hazael said, “But what is your servant, who is but a dog, that he should do this great thing?” And Elisha answered, “ The Lord has shown me that you will be king over Aram.” So he departed from Elisha and returned to his master, who said to him, “What did Elisha say to you?” And he answered, “He told me that you would surely recover.” On the following day, he took the cover and dipped it in water and spread it on his face, so that he died. And Hazael became king in his place. 2 Kings 8:7-15.

This passage of Scripture is comprehensible because it shows the relationship between God’s will and the wicked actions of men. The US election is much less clear. “My God given right to vote!” Or God’s sovereign right to choose no matter what the cost. What do we believe in? The right to vote! Or God’s right to choose! And if God chooses a man to be the head of the most powerful nation in world history; a man who believes that Jesus is the brother of Satan, what will that really mean for men? Or does not God have a sovereign purpose for a nation that added the declaration “One Nation Under God” within living history to its national conscience? Perhaps saying this is just theatrics! Perhaps God is not sovereign after all! Perhaps it will really come down to "my God given right to vote". If it does then who will be accountable then.

M

Miccah Oct 12, 2012

Wow. Speaking truth is now considered hate speach... Deception. Deception. Deception.

Synapsis of this thread...

--If you don't vote Romney, you are casting a vote for Obama.

--If you do not vote, you should leave America (one of my personal favorites btw)

--Not voting is actually voting

Brothers and sisters. I say this in love. A vote for Romney means you are deceived. It does NOT mean that you are not saved or are going to Hell if you do vote for him. After the vote, you will still very much be my brother and sister in the Lord, but deceived on this issue.

Sorry if this bothers you folks. But it would not be love if I let you move in deception and not say something.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

A vote for Romney means you are deceived.

*sigh* ... why do I bother with this forum??

Krispy

M

Miccah Oct 12, 2012

*sigh* ... why do I bother with this forum??

Why do you bother with this forum? It seems to me that you are just looking for people to agree with you and not rock the boat (on this issue). Sorry brother, I'm not the guy. It is as if you would rather have brothers and sisters in Christ who care about people not falling into deception, just hush up and stay in the corner (or vote Romney).

Krispy. I find it very hypocritical of you to speak your mind on this subject with no qualms about your stance, but when others take a similar opposite stance, you begin to huff and puff.

Let me ask you something... Do you think that I, or any others that beleive that a vote for Romney is deception, think that stating this fact to our brothers and sisters in Christ is fun? I dislike it VERY, VERY much. But my love for my brothers and sisters is more important than any uncomfortable feeling that we get by speaking the truth.

Fact. Romney's president will legitimatize the Mormon faith and will in turn help Mormon missionaries bring people to the Mormon faith. They can say to the uneducated, "If the POTUS is a mormon, it must be ok." And you know what... People WILL FALL FOR IT.

This in itself should be enough for any thoughtful Christian to stay as far away from this election as possible. The thought that we can legitimitze the mormon faith by-proxy is sickening.

Another thing that bugs me about (most of) my brothers and sisters in the Lord who are voting for Romney is the following. Usually, these men and women will be the first and loudest to speak against heretics and deception like Hinn, Olsten, White, etc... with no heistiation and with a fevered passion. Why not now speak out against the same deception that is overtaking this election?

The only answer that makes sense, is DECEPTION. Christians actually beleiving that a vote for a Mormon is no big deal.

Writen in love with no malace.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

Then Elisha came to Damascus. Now Ben- hadad king of Aram was sick, and it was told him, saying, “ The man of God has come here.” The king said to Hazael, “ Take a gift in your hand and go to meet the man of God, and inquire of the Lord by him, saying, ‘Will I recover from this sickness? ’” So Hazael went to meet him and took a gift in his hand, even every kind of good thing of Damascus, forty camels’ loads; and he came and stood before him and said, “ Your son Ben- hadad king of Aram has sent me to you, saying, ‘Will I recover from this sickness? ’” Then Elisha said to him, “ Go, say to him, ‘You will surely recover,’ but the Lord has shown me that he will certainly die.” He fixed his gaze steadily on him until he was ashamed, and the man of God wept. Hazael said, “Why does my lord weep?” Then he answered, “Because I know the evil that you will do to the sons of Israel: their strongholds you will set on fire, and their young men you will kill with the sword, and their little ones you will dash in pieces, and their women with child you will rip up.” Then Hazael said, “But what is your servant, who is but a dog, that he should do this great thing?” And Elisha answered, “ The Lord has shown me that you will be king over Aram.” So he departed from Elisha and returned to his master, who said to him, “What did Elisha say to you?” And he answered, “He told me that you would surely recover.” On the following day, he took the cover and dipped it in water and spread it on his face, so that he died. And Hazael became king in his place. 2 Kings 8:7-15.

Aram is the ancient name for Syria. King Ben-Hadad who though sick, is still king. It is Hazael who murders him by soaking a bed cloth in water and putting it over the face of the king who though still sick, has gone to sleep believing he is going to recover. Thus weakened by sickness and unaware by sleep he falls easily under the hand of his murderer. Thus is Hazael become king of Aram.

Elisha first tells Hazael that the King of Aram, will “surly recover”. Not just recover, which would be true regardless, but surly recover. Yet Elisha having declared God’s righteous will tells Hazael that God has shown him that Ben-Hadad will “certainly die”. Then Elisha fixes his gaze directly on Hazael until he expresses his shame because of the unrighteous desire, which he holds regarding his masters sickness. Once his heart is revealed he becomes ashamed in his own understanding and in visibility of Elisha, then Elisha weeps for all that which is coming on Israel. After revealing all the wicked deeds that Hazael will do against Israel, Hazael still does not acknowledge that Elijah had anointed him King of Aram. Elisha then tells Hazael that God has shown him that he will be King over Aram.

No Thus saith the Lord; no command of God, all is a contradiction to God’s righteous intent in that hour, yet Hazael is provoked by the words of Elisha into making his move. Thereby is he exposed in his own heart and is become without excuse. After hearing these things Hazael simply declares to King Ben-Hadad the thing that is given him by Elisha. “Go say to Him, you will surly recover”. On the next morning Hazael suffocates Ben-Hadad as he sleeps with a wet blanket.

Does anyone really think that Mr Romney doesn’t want to be President? Or that he has not been told on the mission fields of France that he is false? Or that he does not desire to take a nation in its weakness and while it sleeps, to make it strong as Aram was strong? Perhaps his own hearts knowledge about what he believes does not make him consider the falsehood of accepting the crown of a nation which does not comprehend what he truly believes because it is so blind with pride in its rights and liberties. The temple rituals of Mormonism may be hidden from the gaze of most men, but they are not hidden from God. To the Mormon who is true to the deep things of his religion believes that America is [to] become Israel. If Mr Romney is to become president it would be better that it were by the hand of God than one child of His were to lend their hand to it. Let Mr Romney and those who are truly for him lend their hands to the blanket and let it not be the hands of the saints. Let their part be the voice which understands why this will be so, If it is indeed to be so.

No thus says the Lord. No prophecy. Just a few words for future reference and understanding.

M

MrBillPro Oct 12, 2012

Everywhere in the world were there are Christians living in places, were their leader is not Christian, I am sure exercise their right to vote. But yet! in America folks get slammed by other Christians for voting for a Mormon, I am sure there are a lot of Christians in the world that would take a Mormon over their leaders any day. Would someone please show me scripture were we are supposed to vote for for a Christian only. I think I would rather get beat up by an atheist or an agnostic than a Christian, their not near as rough on you, as most Christians, and probably know the word of God better than most Christians.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

No Miccah... it's the blanket statements you are making about your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that I find to be in error.

Where does this come from? This "If you do this, then you are that" mentality?

Basically what you're doing is adding to the gospel. You're basically saying "Salvation is Jesus plus not voting for a Mormon". Or "Jesus plus anything...".

You're being judgemental, deciding who is deceived, etc. Thats not you're place. You dont know the heart of men and women any more than I do.

I dont particularly care if people vote or not. People can not vote if thats what they feel called to do... and while I might not agree, I'm not going to call them decieved.

By calling people decieved you're trying to manipulate people to agree with you. You're no different than a televangelist who plays on peoples fears or lusts to get them to send him money.

By the way, I love ya, man.

Krispy

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

Would someone please show me scripture were we are supposed to vote for for a Christian only.

I asked for chapter and verse earlier, Bill. No one here will ever give you one because there isnt one. There in lies the problem... this entire thread is about opinions and not scripture.

I hate to sound like Neil, but I hope the mods enforce their own rules against political debates and lock this thread. It's stupid.

(No offense Neil!)

Krispy

R

rainydaygirl Oct 12, 2012

I hate to sound like Neil, but I hope the mods enforce their own rules against political debates and lock this thread. It's stupid.
--
ok i will cast my vote. this thread needs to shut down:)

rdg

M

MrBillPro Oct 12, 2012

Dr. David Barton - on Obama

Respect the Office? Yes.

Respect the Man in the Office? No, I am sorry to say.

I have noted that many elected officials, both Democrats and Republicans, called upon America to unite behind Obama.

Well, I want to make it clear to all who will listen that I AM NOT uniting behind Obama!

I will respect the Office which he holds, and I will acknowledge his abilities as an orator and wordsmith and pray for him, BUT that is it.

I have begun today to see what I can do to make sure that he is a one-term President!

Why am I doing this?

It is because:

- I do not share Obama's vision or value system for America ;

- I do not share his Abortion beliefs;

- I do not share his radical Marxist's concept of re-distributing wealth;

- I do not share his stated views on raising taxes on those who make$150,000+ (the ceiling has been changed three times since August);

- I do not share his view that America is Arrogant;

- I do not share his view that America is not a Christian Nation;

- I do not share his view that the military should be reduced by 25%;

- I do not share his view of amnesty and giving more to illegals than our American Citizens who need help;

- I do not share his views on homosexuality and his definition of marriage;

- I do not share his views that Radical Islam is our friend and Israel is our enemy who should give up any land;

- I do not share his spiritual beliefs (at least the ones he has made public);

- I do not share his beliefs on how to re-work the healthcare system in America ;

- I do not share his Strategic views of the Middle East ; and

- I certainly do not share his plan to sit down with terrorist regimes such as Iran .

Bottom line: my America is vastly different from Obama's, and I have a higher obligation to my Country and my GOD to do what is Right!

For eight (8) years, the Liberals in our Society, led by numerous entertainers who would have no platform and no real credibility but for their celebrity status, have attacked President Bush, his family, and his spiritual beliefs!

They have not moved toward the center in their beliefs and their philosophies, and they never came together nor compromised their personal beliefs for the betterment of our Country!

They have portrayed my America as a land where everything is tolerated except being intolerant!

They have been a vocal and irreverent minority for years!

They have mocked and attacked the very core values so important to the founding and growth of our Country!

They have made every effort to remove the name of GOD or Jesus Christ from our Society!

They have challenged capital punishment, the right to bear firearms, and the most basic principles of our criminal code!

They have attacked one of the most fundamental of all Freedoms, the right of free speech!

Unite behind Obama? Never!

I am sure many of you who read this think that I am going overboard, but I refuse to retreat one more inch in favor of those whom I believe are the embodiment of Evil!

PRESIDENT BUSH made many mistakes during his Presidency, and I am not sure how history will judge him. However, I believe that he weighed his decisions in light of the long established Judeo-Christian principles of our Founding Fathers!!!

Majority rules in America , and I will honor the concept; however, I will fight with all of my power to be a voice in opposition to Obama and his "goals for America ..."

I am going to be a thorn in the side of those who, if left unchecked, will destroy our Country! Any more compromise is more defeat!

I pray that the results of this election will wake up many who have sat on the sidelines and allowed the Socialist-Marxist anti-GOD crowd to slowly change so much of what has been good in America !

GOD bless you and GOD bless our Country!

M

Miccah Oct 12, 2012

Maybe you forgot that I said this a few postings ago.

It does NOT mean that you are not saved or are going to Hell if you do vote for him. After the vote, you will still very much be my brother and sister in the Lord, but deceived on this issue.

On the other hand, you ARE deceived if you are a Christian and vote for Romney.

By calling people decieved you're trying to manipulate people to agree with you. You're no different than a televangelist who plays on peoples fears or lusts to get them to send him money.

That is just low Krispy... I am embarrassed for you. If this is how you feel about me, then so be it. If warning my brothers and sisters in Christ about them being deceived is compared to mimicking a heretic who only wants your cash...

Embarrasing.

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 12, 2012

On the other hand, you ARE deceived if you are a Christian and vote for Romney.

I strongly disagree with your opinion. But, I still love you, brother. I also thank you for your concern.

G

ginnyrose Oct 12, 2012

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"Besides, knowing this forum the way I do... if someone who was a born-again Christian ran for president there would NEVER be a consensus on here about him! Everyone would pick apart his doctrine, his theology, the denomination he belongs to... and then some here would be upset that he's even involved in politics in the first place... why isn't he a missionary??"
______________________________________________________________

Well...so some humor still remains in this discussion! :-) At least I chuckled..

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

For me personally, FB was not a good experience.

I was so much like you brother. But there are ways to harness that beast. I wanted only friends to contact me, and unfriend everyone that I am not in contact with even family members. I went into the account settings and customized everything. I turned off the email settings, I don't get anything from facebook in my email. I've limited the few that I do have to just friends or myself. I've stopped all traffic for "friends of friends". No one can tag my pictures or tag me in anyway. I was getting all these sleazy messages from the family who had friends of their friends of their friends and so on and I had people on there that I didn't even know. So I wanted to put a stop to all that and narrowed everything down to a science, zeroed in on what I wanted and who can see my page and who can contact me and who can write on my wall.

S

sermonindex Oct 12, 2012

Voting for Romney is deception? How? Because he is a Mormon?

Is this an American thing that the person that you vote in HAS to be a Christian?

Let me say this, Jesus said that the children of this world are wiser than the children of God in their generation. Why would we want a Christian in government if they are less wiser in the affairs of this world than the children of God?

I would vote for anyone who knows how to govern properly, NOT on the basis that he attends Church every Sunday. That holds nothing in the equation of good government.

S

sermonindex Oct 15, 2012

Miccah, I just wanted to say that I love you brother. Always have. We’ve always had some good discussions on here and have not always seen eye to eye, but have always walked away friends. I still feel that way. I was not intending to liken YOU to a money grubbing televangelist. I was simply saying that I personally find your words to be over the top and manipulative… much the same way a televangelist uses manipulation.

I don’t think you are intending to manipulate. I simply think you don’t realize how your words appear to others outside of yourself.

I respect you as a friend and love you like a brother… even when you are wrong. :-)

Krispy

S

sermonindex Oct 15, 2012

By the way, I will be voting for Romney... and I am not deceived. I know full well what he believes in regards to Mormonism. I probably understand what he believes better than 90% of the people on this forum.

By voting for him I know full well where he is coming from spiritually. Cant say that for a lot of those who voted for Obama last time around.

I know when it comes to national security and the economy his platform is way more in line with what I think it should be than his opponent's is.

I also know he is too soft on the abortion issue, but that could change.

I could go on... but I would be interested in hearing a further explanation from you about how I will be deceived if I vote for Romney.

And by the way... Romney certainly is not my first choice, but at this point he is the only choice.

Krispy

PS: All the pontificating in the world will not change the fact that God has a plan... and He will put the person He has decided on in the White House. His perfect will is going to take place.

S

sermonindex Oct 15, 2012

Micah brother, a very wise man told me to leave this thread. I encourage that wise man to do tbe same. Come on our call tonight and join in praise for what God is doing in his faith remnant bride. For surely exalting Jesus is far mire edifying then political discussions.

Bro let us go after Jesus. For sure he is far more satisfying than any political candidate.

Bearmaster.

M

murrcolr Oct 15, 2012

Quote: "Youre so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshanks' table that you've missed your God-given right to something better."

Hold on if I am not mistaken thats a William Wallace/Braveheart quote...

Here is another "Men don’t follow titles, they follow courage"

And I can't see any courage in the current American President.

M

Miccah Oct 15, 2012

Krispy. I love you too.

bearmaster. Miccah standing down.

I may join the call tonight, but do not count on it. The twins have been having a fun time not sleeping lately, which in turn means that my wife and I have been having lots of "fun" not sleeping as well. Trying to catch up on some sleep, but not likely.

Blessings my brothers and sisters.

T

TMK Oct 15, 2012

Miccah wrote:

"Miccah standing down."

I hope you don't stand down quite yet-- I was hoping you might define what you mean when you say someone is "deceived" if they vote for Romney.

I know the definition of "deceived" but perhaps you are using it in a way that I am not familiar with.

To me, deception involves trickery, or slight of hand, or, well, deceit.

If someone votes for Romney KNOWING that he is a Mormon, I am not sure how that is deception. Deception would be if he tried to convince us that he wasnt really a Mormon and people fell for it.

I think you can legitimately say that, in your opinion, people are MISTAKEN if they vote for Romney, but I don't see how you can call them deceived.

Unless you are saying that a Christian is deceived if he believes it is ok for a Christian to vote for a Mormon; but again not sure if that is deception vs simply being mistaken.

But as KK has pointed out, if that is what you mean then it is simply your opinion.

For example, I have friends wrapped up in the charismatic movement that i believe are deceived on some points because they dont know all the facts about certain aspects of the movement. Once they know all the facts, but still persist in following certain elements of charismatic-ness, they are no longer deceived but merely mistaken, perhaps egregiously so.

S

sermonindex Oct 17, 2012

TMK... I love Miccah, and we have rarely ever had any kind of heated disagreements. He is a godly brother, to be sure.

Unfortunately tho there is a trend on forums like this to make statements like he has... and then refuse to explain the statement.

Like you I wish he would expand upon his statement too. Maybe he will.

Normally tho there will be no explanation.

It's unfortunate too because the prophets of God in the Bible would announce God's judgement is coming, and then spend almost half of a book of the Bible explaining why God's judgement is coming... and then explain what the people must do to turn away God's judgement upon their nation... and then describe God's promises of blessings if they do turn away from their sin and turn to God.

(Remove Miccah from this next part. I dont think for a minute that Miccah views himself as a prophet on this forum)

All of these things, except the judgement part, are missing from the "prophecies" of judgement on this forum. People come and declare judgement on America... or judgement on His church... no real explanation of why, no real exhortation or explanation of how to turn it away... and no promises of His blessings if people turn from their sin.

Just an observation.

Krispy

D

DEADn Oct 17, 2012

I am not concerned about Romney's Mormonism as far as the Presidential thing is concerned. After all, wouldn't the media be all over him if he started to spout Mormonism?

The Flaw I see in Romney is he is hiding something and dances around certain things. It is almost as if he doesn't know how to answer simple questions without having to go into some big speech about it. Such would be a typical politician OR big time businessman. The common people have to jump through hoops to understand what he says sometimes. Obama does the same as well. I keep hearing the 5 pt plan but what is that? Is it Nancy Pelosi's thing in which we need to vote for Mitt in order to see what is in it?

Most people don't care about a President's faith or religion. They have voting on how government is going to have the impact on their lives such as the economy, healthcare and defense. All else doesn't matter.

John

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sermonindex Oct 17, 2012

Brothers and Sisters,

May I humbly suggest our eyes on focused on the "seen" and not the "unseen?"

On the one hand, we Saints pray for revival, and on the other, we get snagged in to an earthly political debate. Rather than focus on who is Mormon or Muslim, we should be praying that God's Will be accomplished throughout the United States.

God may decide that the best way to wake up a slumbering, worldly, backslidden church in to a revival is to allow a president who ushers in persecution. A cursory read of the NT speaks much of the benefits of trials, tribulation, and refining fire. Not that we seek it out, but I Peter 4:17 reminds us that judgment first begins with the house of God.

Neither politician will lead us to repentance, but their actions may. Now is the time to repent and ask God what His will is for the US, the church, and ourselves. We know what's coming, so let's keep our eyes on the prize.

Blessings.

D

dspks Oct 17, 2012

I am a passenger in this government (just passing through)... I have a unique responsibility to maintain it... NOT TRUST IT... Just as I allow my car to carry me down the road... This government was designed to carrying my family down a moral path (laws), an economic path, and a international path .
My responsibility is to look "under the hood" AND "down the road" and make the necessary repairs, and replacements, being mindful of the direction it is taking me.
Just as when I ignore the needs of my car I put my family in danger... so also when I ignore the needs of my government I put my family in danger.

In biblical times there was NOT a government of the people by the people and for the people... designed to be accountable to God fearing people.

Sadly, some God fearing people have chosen to leave the responsibility of "looking under the hood" to the godless... and then complain about the direction of the government.

Again, I trust the government about as much as I trust my car... but, I DO get involved with both of their maintenance... because they carry my family down the road at lethal speeds.

M

Miccah Oct 17, 2012

Krisper and TMK, I respect you and your concerns, hence the answer that I am going to give. I stand by what I have said.

I have explained my views on this subject in different threads before, and in this thread. At this time, I am feeling (best word that I can use to describe) that the Lord is leading me to leave this thread. I would love to come on and defend my views more and more, but it would not be edifying to my brothers and sisters, whom I love much.

Please know that I am a sinful man who stumbles daily. I do not wish or intend to have any brother or sister stumble or fall because of my words or on my account. There are times that things just need to be brought up to prayer, and prayer alone. NOW is one of those times.

I love you all.

If you would like to get a hold of me or jump on my facebook, look me up at Christiaan Hanson or email me at christiaanhanson@gmail.com

Blessings brothers and sisters.

Christiaan

M

Miccah Oct 17, 2012

Double post. :P

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sermonindex Oct 17, 2012

Luv ya, Miccah!

Krispy

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ThyKingCome Oct 18, 2012

Blessings to you in the Name of the King of Kings, Jesus Christ - the blessed and ONLY Potentate.

Certainly Jesus is a much better subject than politics, but I think we truly must be led by the Spirit not only in "if" we are to vote or "how" we are to vote, but also the tones we take with one another if we are truly led differently than one another. "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty, and in all things-charity" - Augustine

I would like to share a video with you from Pastor Jack Hibbs which I believe is sound Biblical counsel concerning politics and voting.

http://vimeo.com/49043625

Please brethren, I humbly exhort all of us to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Love in the Lamb,

S

sermonindex Oct 18, 2012

We are locking this thread because it has definitely run its course.

We want to encourage no arguing about political issues on the site, any political items posting on the forums of this nature are for biblical discussion and prayer.

This thread is being locked.