God hates and loves the sinner.

I know the American culture sees God as, He hates sin, but loves the sinner. In light of Ps 5:5 and believing the Bible is the word of God I have had to conform my mind to this. Something else that might be of good is a video on Youtube of David Platt about God loves and hates sinners. Any other thoughts?

"For God so loved the world..."

world - Greek: Kosmos

This is the same word for which we derive the word "cosmos" or "universe." This seems to indicate a far-reaching love rather than just a remnant that is "chosen" by God to be saved.

After all, we are all sinners.

hi, Jesus said that if you had seen Him you have seen the Father. Jesus spent His life with sinners and loved them wherever He went. He hated the pompous religeous people (scribes, pharisees,saduceesetc.)He said that He came not to condemn the world but to save those who believe into Him.He died for sinners like you and me.jimp

The problem with most of Jesus loves sinners preaching is, they miss to stress on the point of Repentance that Jesus preached to sinners. The problem in preaching Repentance is, you have to tell the people what sins they need to repent from, and this will hurt people and hence the reduction in number of converts.
Jesus forgives only Repented sinners. If you take repentance out then faith is of zero value. Repentance is required every time we fall. The Prodigal son had to turn back to his father from pigs food, then only Father came running after him. When the prodigal son was longing for Pigs food, was the father loving him? Yes he loved his son. But did he give him his inheritance in his (fathers) house? No he did not until the son turned away from pigs food.

The father in the Prodigal son's story is the representation of God the father.

InLove, I would agree with you that God both loves and hates sinners simultaneously. More than once we read, "Holy,holy,holy is the LORD God Almighty", not love,love,love. Holiness is His highest, ultimate attribute. All His other attributes must be seen in light of His holiness.

While God's Word declares that God is love, it also declares that His holy wrath remains on all those that remain unrepentant. Those two truths are crystal clear in the Bible. What troubles me is when I see Christians trying to deny either one of those clear truths of the Bible. If someone is shown clearly from scripture that God's wrath remains on unbelievers, for them to still deny it is concerning. Likewise any who would deny God's love.

The fact that so many churches and Christians today deny God's wrath is to me just another sign of the days of apostasy we are living in.

hi, repentance is turning the rule of your life from your rule to His rule and dying to self gal 2:20 wrath of the father was poured out on Jesus at the cross Is.53.rom.8:1.God IS love.he that knoweth not love, knoweth not God.Jesus dealt with the sin problem at the cross and conquered sin ,death,and hell for us who believe. we live under a new and BETTER covenant then the jews of the old for He no longer covers sin ,but removes it. we are a new creation with BETTER promises. all this because of the greatest gift of Love ever given;Jessus and Him crucified.jimp for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believe into Him shall have zoe (everlasting life.)

"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”-John 3:36

I don't think it's safe to say that that verse applies only to Old Testament times? Nowhere in God's Word are we told that God changes His attituded toward unrepentant sinners. The cross shows how serious God takes sin. He does not punish the sin but the sinner in hell if he does not repent and trust in Christ.

There are so many New Testament verses that warn about God's wrath.

Jesus said, “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!-Luke 12:4-5

"26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."-Hebrews 10:26-31

"6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”-Rev.14:6-7

“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."-Prov.9:10

"In mercy and truth Atonement is provided for iniquity; And by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil."-Prov.16:6

Edit: included the scripture reference(John 3:36) after first verse posted.

hi, then only the father would go meet him.you are dead wrong in putting more emphasis on what the son did or did not do (which the father did not know about) than the love of the father for his son.MERCY is what the new covenant is all about.jimp

I remember that decades ago it was common for Christians to say to a stranger "Jesus Loves You". But after a while it changed. I guess they figured out that if you tell a lost person that Jesus Loves You and just leave it at that, the lost sinner would get comfortable in there lost sinful condition. So it changed to "Jesus Loves You and has a wonderful plan for your life". Or perhaps you have heard the other one, "Jesus loves you where you are at but loves you too much to leave you there". These revised sayings go a long way in getting the message across that Jesus loves you, but not your sin.
I've heard Christians point out that the Bible says that God hated Esau. I suppose they want to justify there own hatred for the lost. I think that even though Esau was a real human being, in the Bible he is a Type. In this case he represents the flesh (and the self-life) so that is why hate is directed toward him.
The tension in the dual truth of God hating sin but loving the sinner is so great that it beggars belief. Except for the fact that Jesus the sinless only begotten Son of God died to save lost sinners when he hung on that Cross.

As Christians, it is us who are to hate the sin and love the sinner and have no feelings of hatred toward them. Only God has the authority to hate both the sin and sinner.

"Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord."-Romans 12:19

One important way to express love to lost souls is by sharing the gospel with them, warning them of God's wrath, just like the prophets, our Lord Jesus, and the apostles and disciples did, as well as sharing the good news of God's mercy and grace with them. Hope that wasn't too long of a sentence :)

God hates the sinner as much as the sin. Sometimes we view things from the wrong perspective. God is holy, He has the right to hate the sinner. There's nothing wrong with that. Or dont you know man is sinful?

hi, if God hates the sinner why would He give His only begottenSon to die in the sinners behalf?why would He pour out His wrath upon Jesus as He bled and died on the cross for sinners? that is the greatest gift of love ever given. in that one act on the cross, Jesus conquered sin, death,and the grave. He did not cover our sin but took away the sin for us. Jesus said that He did not come to condemn the world but through Him the world might be saved. the world was nothing but sinners from then til now. the statement that God hates sinners has no place in the gospel message because it is an obvious mistatement of the truth.God is love. i can hear Him saying "niether do I condemn you, Go and sin no more.jimp

hi, we can try to reason away the clear teaching of scripture on God's wrath from the both the old and new testaments, but it won't change that truth one bit. To deny the reality of God's wrath upon unrepentant sinners after being shown that truth clearly from the New Testament is dangerous ground. It is border-line heresy at best and complete apostasy at worse.

Jimp,
Please understand that I simply stated what I believe. If you disagree,(which I think you do) there's nothing wrong with that.
" if God hates the sinner why would He give His only begottenSon to die in the sinners behalf? why would He pour out His wrath upon Jesus as He bled and died on the cross for sinners?"
In one word: grace. There wasn't anything I did to give God a reason to save me from the wrath I deserve.

hi, take a look at how Jesus treated the sinners He met in the bible and you cannot find any hatred. if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.it is impossible for Love to hate.jimp

Okay, I'll play the game of logic or reason for a moment. If God is not wrath-filled or angry with the wicked everyday like Psalm 7:11 tells us, why does He cast them into eternal hell-fire? Again, He does not only punish the sin but the sinner if he does not repent.

The word wrath means fierce anger and it is found throughout the new testament in reference to God. Why would you want to deny something so clear in God's Word?

Many folk make up a nice santa clause god in their mind(an idol)who has no wrath, because it makes them feel comfortable in their sins. That is the way of the world, false religions, cults, and apostate Christianity. Don't go that route which leads to the damnning of your soul.

Embrace the one true living God of the Holy Bible. He offers mercy through the cross of Christ, but will by no means clear the unrepentant sinner if he dies without repentance.

hi, because they were condemned already. the rejection of the provision of the cross,even the eating of the wrong tree and rejecting the tree of Life.we condemn ourselves and sentence ourselves by not putting on Jesus.God does not hate (hate is evil) God is not evil.God is more than just...he is merciful.that is not hate.think about hating your own children of which i have8...i have seen mothers and fathers go get on a bus to go to a prison every week to visit someone who tortured a man to death. if you being human will give gifts that are good, how much more shall your heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask.jimp

hi, take a look at how Jesus treated the sinners He met in the bible and you cannot find any hatred. if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.it is impossible for Love to hate.jimp

hi, Jesus' message was not all about God's love. What did He do in the temple to those who sold religion? Jesus warned about God's wrath more than any other preacher who has walked this earth. Don't just take one side of Jesus and run with it while ignoring the rest of Him. The Jesus of the Bible is far different than most people have in mind. Jesus is coming back in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God -2Thess.1:7-9. Many will fall under the wrath of the Lamb. Read Revelation 1 and you get a picture of the real Jesus. Don't worship a false Jesus who is only about love. Embrace the real Jesus of the Holy Bible.

Jimp, I will take it that you are a Bible believeing person. That if the Bible says it you won't try to explain it away?

Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

I want to add that God loves sinners as well. Why can He not do both at the same time? Because we can't? Lets try not to bring God to our limitations.

Regarding God hating and loving sinners at the same time, years ago I read it explained this way by John MacArthur and thought it made a lot of sense. He compared it to a husban/wife relationship. If a wife cheats on her husband, or vice versa, the betrayed spouse will feel hurt and angry toward his/her spouse, while at the same time still have feelings of love toward them. In many cases the offended spouse will hope that the offending spouse sincerely repents of his/her infidelity.

Similarly, God loves every unrepentant sinner and it is clear by the way He is patient with them. At the same time, He is hurt, grieved, and angered by the way sinners rebel against Him. He offers forgiveness of sins on the condition of repentance and faith in Christ.

Edit: double post, deleted one.

Jimp,I know I'm jumping in here, but I have read this entire thread. Are you sure that it is impossible for love to hate?

~You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions." (Heb 1:9)~

This very Scripture is speaking of the Lord Jesus.

If you love children you will hate abortion

If you love Africans you will hate slavery

If you love Jews you will hate the Holocaust

If you love righteousness you must hate iniquity

Please don't confuse God's righteous anger and hatred with the wicked and corrupted anger of fallen men. Man was made in the image of God, with personality, reason, and emotion. But upon the fall the image of God in man has been defiled in every way. Therefore the anger you see expressed in this world, from man to man, is unrighteous. But God is Holy and good and He truly loves righteousness. He truly loves all that which conforms to His own character. Therefore He hates every and all sin and those who remain in it. If God loves everyone then no one is going to hell right? If God's love is impure and not so holy then won't even hitler and stalin be allowed into heaven? Because surely He would love even those who refuse Him. If He loves everything and everyone why would He even send folks to hell? If God is all love and cannot hate why did Christ even have to die? But the truth is that all, apart from grace, are like hitler in heart including myself and all have turned from God. All are guilty of hating Him! So the real question is how can a good just God love wicked men?

I'm glad that you want to emphasize the love of God. But it's impossible to do if you ignore the justice of God. You can throw out all kinds of Scriptures which speak of the love of God however you must reconcile them with other Scriptures which clearly say that God hates those who do evil. Wrongly dividing the Word of God is dangerous business.

jimp, in an earlier post on this thread, pasted below, you said that Jesus hated the "religious people etc,

"Jesus spent His life with sinners and loved them wherever He went. He hated the pompous religous people (scribes, pharisees,saduceesetc.)He said that He came not to condemn the world but to save those who believe into Him."

So Jesus does hate, if he didn't He wouldn't have had to come and be a willing sacrifice to satisfy the wrath of God in the place of His people. Man could have continued on in sin just fine and "god" who loves anything, wouldn't have minded a bit. Jesus wouldn't have needed to come.

Jimp, religious people and pharisees are sinners too. Self righteousness is just as much a sin as adultery or murder. The pharisee Saul was a sinner.

Jimp here is another previous post of yours,

"hi, take a look at how Jesus treated the sinners He met in the bible and you cannot find any hatred. if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.it is impossible for Love to hate."

Is it really possible for love to hate? That is not the teaching of Scripture. Scripture clearly states that God is love, and Scripture clearly says that there are things and people that God hates.

Jesus wept over sinners, Jesus pleaded with sinners, Jesus told the truth and warned sinners. Jesus told sinners that the righteous judgment of God was coming. Jesus suffered and died in the sinners place proving that God is just and righteous Rom 3.

The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD is avenging and wrathful; the LORD takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies. (Nah 1:2)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. (Rom 1:18)

Jesus had severe warnings to all who persist in sin and unbelief. Repent or perish! Broad is the way that leads to destruction. Fear not man, but God who can destroy body and soul in hell Matt 10:28. This same Jesus spoke of wielding the winnowing fork and baptisms of fire.

His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Luk 3:17)

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. (Psa 2:12)

Yes Jesus love sinners to, but it is always a pure and redeeming love. The very reason Christ came was to save His people from their sin. Jesus had to come and die and bear the punishment from a just God that sinners like you and me deserve. He had to bear the curse of the law in our place. The curse which was from God! This is indeed amazing grace and love that no tongue can ever proclaim. But this love is a holy love that does not contradict righteous hatred. Everyone who comes to repentance and faith in Christ will be poor in spirit, their mouth of self justification will be stopped, and they will be contrite in heart. And everyone who has been convicted of sin, righteousness, and judgment knows that God has righteous wrath. Everyone who is broken in spirit knows that God's justice is good and it is only in this light that the love of God is so wondrously displayed in the cross of Christ.

hi, you gave examples of opposites.sinners are sinners.jimp how did Jesus treat sinners He met in the bible?

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Pharisees are sinners and Publicans are sinners.

But just for clarity's sake, before further discussion, what is your definition of the word sinner?

hi, a sinner is one who has one sin that is not under the blood.jimp

Jimp, thank you, but still more specific, what is sin?

Approved,

If all of mankind is now under the blood of the Lamb then what exactly is the point of missions and Gospel preaching? From what you wrote it sounds like it is safer to remain a pagan then to actually become a christian. It is true Scripture makes it clear that those who hear the Gospel but remain unconverted are in even a worse plight than those who never hear. But those who have never heard the Gospel are still guilty of sin and without excuse before God and under His wrath. When Paul in Romans 1 speaks of wrath being revealed he is talking about all of mankind, not just the Jews. Romans 1-3 is an indictment upon the entire human race. Jew and Gentile both are guilty of having the truth but yet suppressing it in unrighteousness. Did the Jews have greater light, yes, but both have vigorously rejected what light they had and are without excuse.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

One of the sermons promoted by SI clearly speaks to this issue of the condition of the lost pagan. Paris Reidhead's "Ten Shekels and a Shirt"

I would argue that not all men are under the blood of Christ, if this is so then all men are no longer under condemnation. If this is true then all men are part of the body of Christ. This would be universalism.

It seems to me that according to Scripture that all men are not under the blood until they do, savingly see the glorious light of the Gospel and repent and believe in Christ alone. The ones under the blood are the christians, not the unbelievers. It is the church that Christ bought with His precious blood. As in the first passover, it was only those with blood on their own doorpost and lintel who were saved.

And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, (Rev 5:9)

Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, (Heb 13:20)

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, (Eph 1:7)

whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. (Rom 3:25)

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. (Rom 5:9)

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. (Joh 6:53)

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. (1Jn 1:7)

Surely the all in the "once for all" written by the author of Hebrews is speaking of all who believe in Christ. It is those who believe in Christ and by faith are justified by His blood. It is for whosoever believes.

God's winking at sin doesn't mean that it is a light thing to remain in unbelief. It definately shows His great forbearance. But at the cross God showed that He is indeed just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Christ Jesus. Not the justifier of those who have not faith. Christ didn't say that those who haven't heard of Him were under His blood. He said repent or you all likewise will perish.

hi,of course; the only people under the blood are those who are in Christ.all others are under condemnation.you still become a sinner with the first sin.you become a liar with the first lie.jimp whatsoever not of faith is sin. faith is hearing from God ,believing what God said, and obeying what God said.

Approved,

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

In Romans 1 it seems to me that it is clear that Paul is talking about all mankind. Jew and Gentile. Near and Far. They are guilty not because they have rejected special or gracious revelation but because they have rejected even natural revelation, verse 20. This is a clear description of the pagans in the text. It says that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. People go to hell because they have sinned against God, not because they haven't heard the Gospel.

Chapter 2 brings this out even more clearly

Rom 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,
Rom 2:10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For God shows no partiality.
Rom 2:12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

As Paris Reidhead said in "Ten Shekels in a Shirt" he found out when he got to africa that these tribal people weren't poor innocent folk who were just waiting to hear about Jesus, but rather they didn't want to hear about Christ. They hated the One true God and they loved their sin and wanted to stay in it.

"Ten Shekels in a Shirt"
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282&commentView=itemComments

Approved,

I'll will attempt to, with the help of the Lord, apart from Him I can do nothing. I'll try not to be too long, but I struggle with conciseness :).

Lets start with this. The teaching of Scripture is that man's first parents Adam and Eve rebelled against God and followed Satan instead. They weren't victims of Satan but rather willfully disobeyed God. They didn't even ask to be created yet God graciously created them for His glory that they might worship Him and glorify Him forever finding complete satisfaction in Him. What a priviledge to worship the Awesome, glorious, pure, all powerfull, loving God forever. The Lord didn't give them a choice but rather He gave them a command and they revolted against it. There were soo many other good trees and why someone would rebel against an altogether Holy, Righteous, and Beautiful God I do not know (but yet I know I would have done the same). But that day mankind spiritually died and God's curse came upon Satan and mankind. It was a terrible sin full of ungratefulness, selfishness, pride, unbelief, coveteousnes etc. It was rebellion against Christ, the one by whom and for whom they were created (Col 1:16).

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--

Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Upon the fall of Adam and Eve all mankind of been guilty of sin. There are no good or innocent people. Rom 3 9-20 says this well. There are no good atheist. Those who appear to be good on the outside have wicked hearts and they dont do their "good" works for God's glory, but rather for their own reputation's sake or for pride.

The fall is the reason for the beginning of temporal judgments from God, such as physical death, disease, thorns, floods, sweat etc. But all the outward judgments of God point to the greater inner reality that mankind is spiritually dead toward God and turned against Him. It not merely what men do, but the very state of their hearts and minds toward God.

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Rom 8:6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Mar 7:20 And he said, "What comes out of a person is what defiles him.
Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,
Mar 7:22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

Isa_64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? (Jer 17:9)

The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies. (Psa 58:3)

Gen 6:5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.

The greatest sin is the breaking of the highest law and the highest law is this.
Mar 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
All sin hangs upon this great law. All sin is rooted in not loving the Infinite God as His is worthy to be loved. We live in a world that smiles at sin and frown upon Christ. To be perfectly righteous one must every moment of his life obey this good command from the heart all of his life. But no one except Christ has done this. This is how far we have fallen short of His glory. We were all made in the image of God but now now it has been though not eradicated greatly defaced and twisted in every way. Lying isn't wrong just because is breaking some rule but rather because God is Truthful and to lie is not to rightly reflect His image. Rather it reflect the image of the devil instead. Adultery is wrong because God is not an adulterous but He is faithful to His bride etc. Everyone is a murderer and an adulterer at heart. Man if he could would storm the very throne of heaven and kill God and sit in His place( Tower of Babel). This is the heart of man. Christ frees a man from a demon and others try to push Him off a cliff. The One by whom and for whom all things were made. All men are haters of God. Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,

Because of all this all mankind is rightly under the wrath of God. As Jesus said on the broad way headed to destruction. This is why the flood came and why Sodom was destroyed, great examples of God's judgment. All men have something of God's law written on their heart and have a conscience. They know that there is a God and they know they should do good, but what they do know about God they suppress because they hate Him and they want to continue in unrighteousness. Every soul that sins will die. Everyone apart from conversion is marching into hell. 1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I believe there is a principle of greater and lesser punishment. Those who recieved not only natural revelation but Gospel revelation will be held to even greater punishment, more stripes. However nonetheless all are guilty of countless sins against God and to face eternal damnation with fewer stripes than others is a prospect to horrifying to imagine. Who knows the power of His anger? God is just and He cannot pass over any sin. For Him to pass over just one sin would ungod Him. It would defraud His character. His own throne is upheld with righteousness and justice.

This may be helpful. A Jew(physical descendant of Abraham) is simply a Gentile with greater revelation. God in grace gave the Jews written revelation and knowledge of the coming Messiah. But every Jew who only had the letter of the law, but not saving faith in Christ nor the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was in all reality no better then any of the gentiles. This is why many of the Jews were so wicked, because they were the same as the gentiles, just with a little "religious" exterior". Some just flat out were lawless and altogether pagan. Other Jews thought they could earn their own salvation by their own works and twisted the word of God they had received into a religion of works. They werent good people, but god haters. They looked "good" on the exterior but like Jesus said on the inside they were filthy. They tried to look like believers on the outside, in order to satisfy their own pride, but on the inside, in their hearts they were gentiles. But praise be to God's grace there were some Jews who truly knew their own sinfulness and wretchedness before God and they had the Holy Spirit and were cast upon the coming Christ by faith alone looking unto Him for redeemption. These Jews were the ones who realized that all the sacrifices were only shadows and types. God in grace saved some of the gentiles as well. But most of the Jewish nation was just as unrighteous and the pagans around them. And any Gentile, apart from God's saving grace, would have acted just like the lost jews did. They would have either remained lawless with a little religion or they would have become self righteous monsters, but lost nonetheless. This is why the pharisees in the NT hated Christ. Because they were haters of God and they had twisted the revelation that was given them. They thought they were good when they were wicked. They did't want Christ or His salvation.

This is to prove that all men are the same at heart. Give any Gentile what the Jews had but without conversion and they would end up either lawless wicked Jews or proud pharisees. This is why it is not physical circumcision that matters but the inner circumcision of regeneration and conversion.
Rom 2:28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical.
Rom 2:29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

It could be said this way. I don't want to be presuming on what you have said. But it sounds like you are saying that all of mankind is now under the blood of Christ and if they don't hear the Gospel in this life God will still allow them into heaven. That faith is only neccesary for them to enter into the full benefits of the Gospel. As Platt said if this is true the worst thing we could do is take the Gospel to the nations, because doubtless some who hear it will reject it and if they would have went to heaven had they not heard it it would have been better never to have taken it to them. But surely this is wrong, for Christ said to take the Gospel to the nations, no one can have faith without the hearing of the word. Scripture says that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ and His blood. Christ's blood has no benefit to anyone redemptively unless that person has saving Gospel faith in Christ. People aren't innocent until the day they first hear the Gospel, they are guilty every day of their existence for every sin they have committed and their only hope is to find pardon for sin and righteousness in Christ. Man is not in a neutral state, but either a slave to Satan or to Christ. Luk_11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

If people don't have faith then they are relying on the works of the law and no one will be justified by the works of the law.

Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

If one has not faith in Christ then in order to be righteous before God they have to have a perfect record of righteousness and no one in this world has ever had that, except Christ.

Maybe this helps,,

praise God for Jesus Christ
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"--
Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Approved,

If all of the sins of mankind have been atoned for then how can God send any individual in this group to hell? How would that be just? If all sin of all peoples has been atoned for then that even includes the sin of unbelief and of spurning the Gospel of Christ. When God justifies someone they cannot be condemned. If their sins are paid for then they are paid for. God's justice is satisfied and the demands of His law fully met. Hell would be empty.

Thanks for the question, I'm sorry, should have clarified. That which makes a man righteous is Christ and Him crucified, His blood and righteousness. Not Faith. It is not faith that makes righteous, but the object of faith. Faith is the eye which cannot look at itself.

hi, thank God we don't live under justice;we live under mercy.Jesus did come to save the world not to condemn it.Jesus defeated sin,death and hell at the cross. why do christians want everyone but themselves to go to hell. we serve a risen ,victoreous saviour.believe into Jesus and you are hid with Christ in God.jimp if you want to please the church folk just tell them that everone but us is going to hell.

Those that are to be saved, restassured they will be saved. This has nothing to do with man except to believe through faith given to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Making Him by God in us our wisdom, reighteousness, sanctification and redemption. This is our glory and knowing that we are saved, "He who has the Son has life and he who does not have the Son does not have life.

1 John 5:9-13 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

There is only one way to get the Son; As the Father gives his own chosen children, the offspring of God to the Son, they are saved and saved and none will be lost.

oh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

This is who the Father sees in me; Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Praise God He will complete this good work He has begun in us. Praise God He will not fail, as I have, as I do and as I will fail, but in Christ by the Fathers Seed I am perfect by the Christ that has been birthed in me and Jesus Christ will not fail either.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Christ is all of Chapter 13, we are all of Chapter 13 because of Christ that is in us and He is now our life. He is come.

1 Corinthians 13:10-13 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

His Spirit is come in us and the Holy Spirit is come in us to perfect our minds to the mind of Christ, there is only one left to be perfected as He is perfect and that will be changed on resurrection day with our new bodies, just like His, being revealed to all of God's Kingdom and heavenly host and us living in His house that Jesus is preparing for the offspring of God.

In Christ: which is Gods plan even before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

With The Holy Spirit in us and The Son and Father making their abode with us, we are truly the offspring of God.

In Him the Three and One by Christ in us:

Phillip

Those that are to be saved, restassured they will be saved. This has nothing to do with man except to believe through faith given to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Making Him by God in us our wisdom, reighteousness, sanctification and redemption. This is our glory and knowing that we are saved, "He who has the Son has life and he who does not have the Son does not have life.

1 John 5:9-13 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

There is only one way to get the Son; As the Father gives his own chosen children, the offspring of God to the Son, they are saved and saved and none will be lost.

oh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

This is who the Father sees in me; Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Praise God He will complete this good work He has begun in us. Praise God He will not fail, as I have, as I do and as I will fail, but in Christ by the Fathers Seed I am perfect by the Christ that has been birthed in me and Jesus Christ will not fail either.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Christ is all of Chapter 13, we are all of Chapter 13 because of Christ that is in us and He is now our life. He is come.

1 Corinthians 13:10-13 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

His Spirit is come in us and the Holy Spirit is come in us to perfect our minds to the mind of Christ, there is only one left to be perfected as He is perfect and that will be changed on resurrection day with our new bodies, just like His, being revealed to all of God's Kingdom and heavenly host and us living in His house that Jesus is preparing for the offspring of God.

In Christ: which is Gods plan even before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

With The Holy Spirit in us and The Son and Father making their abode with us, we are truly the offspring of God.

In Him the Three and One by Christ in us: Our Father in us, our sonship by the Son and Parakleet Teacher in us sealed forever.

Phillip

Jimp, I hope you don't think I want folks to go to hell. I certainly don't, I feel the burden of the necessity to take the Gospel to the world. I am grieved over my own family and community of how so few love Christ and so many are caught up in vanity and filth. But I live in the reality that I was a brand plucked from the fire by God's grace. That Christ died for me while I was yet His enemy. I am what I am by the grace of God. Amazing grace! Love so Divine and free! I've been saved from the wrath of God through His only begotten Son. I'm just trying to make the point that those who do not believe are still in danger. God doesn't play with sin and to those who persist in it He has drawn His bow and Christ will tread the winepress of His wrath. It is biblically false to say the the sinner is not under God's wrath.

You are right that christians don't live under God's wrath but under grace. And for us Christian who have been redeemed and are what we are by grace alone we must burn with compassion for our lost and dying race. We must take the Gospel to them and speak of God's redeeming love in Christ. But we must take the whole sword of His word and not just half of it. It has two edges. The Gospel has both warnings and promises. For those who are proud and self righteous we must warn them to flee the wrath to come! We must with truth and tears persuade them knowing the terror of the Lord. We must be constrained by the love of Christ. We can't simply tell sinners that God only loves them and has a great plan for their life. This is but to deceive them and leave them comfortable in sin. We must tell them He has wrath toward the wicked and yet in great grace has provided one way of salvation in Christ. Jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else. True church folk know that everyone outside of Christ is headed for hell, because they have been saved from that very plight, but this won't make them smug and indifferent, it will humble and compel them to go preach Christ that others might be saved too and God be glorified.

For whatever reason this thread reminds me of a sermon that Bill Wilson gave a while back. He said he was at a conference the person before him spoke about how God loves people equally. His message was that God doesn't love people equally because those who are really down and out and at the end or their rope need more love from God then the person who has a house, a job, family and life seemingly going great for them. It would be a great find if I could find audio to that. I happened to see Bill at Without Walls church in Tampa some 15 years ago. I wondered why he would preach there given the nature of who the pastors were but I figured that Bill doesn't turn any invitation down if he can preach the Gospel and speak from his heart about Metro Ministries.

Dear Approved,

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be cryptic about it. The way I understand it is that christians are saved by grace through faith alone. Faith in Christ alone. It's not faith itself that saves or justifies us. We don't have faith in our faith, but rather in Christ the object of our faith. However faith is the sole means, avenue or channel by which we apprehend or behold Christ.
It is not in works at all but by faith alone which is a beholding or being totally cast upon Christ. Christ and Him crucified is the ground of our justification; faith is the sole avenue or instrument by which we receive the righteousness of Christ. Faith has to have an object. No one is covered by the blood of Christ unless they have faith in Him.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it--
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Act_20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Act 16:31 And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Col_1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

about the error of Korah,
Many of them I believe went through the outward observance of the passover; but they didn't have true spiritual faith in the coming Messiah. The passover lamb was only type not the real substance. Because they didn't have true faith they weren't covered by the blood of the True Lamb. They had a form of godliness but not the power.

hi, we all agree that God loves the sinner.show me a new covenant example of God hating someone.jimp

Jimp,

Surely God did not change between the OT and the NT. I the Lord do not change. Are you saying that God did hate in the OT and does not in the NT? If so then according to your thinking did God not love in the OT? And that certainly is not true. Exodus 34:6-7 Has always been true, the only place to find refuge from our sin and God's wrath is Christ. In Christ there is no condemnation; outside of Christ, nothing but condemnation.

Jimp, isnt all of God's word "breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness"? God has not changed in His character in the OT to something different in the NT, so Old testament verses should be of value to you.

Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Rev_6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."

Jud 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

2Pe 2:9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,
2Pe 2:10 and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones,

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luk 3:17 His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire."

Mat 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire."

Luk_12:49 "I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled!

Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

1Th_1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Eph_5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Eph_2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Rom_13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Rom_9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Rom_12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Rom_1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom_2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Mat_3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

2Th 1:8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
2Th 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

As a preacher has said, if you don't think God hates sinners then look at calvalry. The one covenant keeper, the only righteous man who ever lived, the Spotless Son of God, yet when sin was imputed to Him, God the Father smote Him and crushed Him. He turned His face away from His Son and made Him to bear the sting of death and the curse of the law. He became a curse. Christ was cut off from the Father and bore His wrath.

If God did that to His own Son what then will he do with those who remain sin?

There is no change in God's Plan, set forth even before the foundation, but there is new revelation in that the Spirit of Christ after His resurrection and asention, the mystery hid from all generations is now revealed to Paul and given to usward, "you-ward", "Christ in you the hope of glory".

2 Corinthians 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

2 Corinthians 13:3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

That being the mystery;

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

I praise God, I am dead in trespasses and sin, but because of Christ in me, I am alive unto God. If I sin I am readily forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness because of Christ and Him alone, "If we confess", "God is faithful and Just to forgive", because of His Son that is birthed in us, to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness.

The Mystery revealed;

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

The mystery now being accomplished by the Son of God in us; "Christ in you the hope of glory".

In Him that is alive an in us, who is True:

Phillip

I am so pleased to hear the full message. The reason is more souls will be saved. Paul was a great believer in preaching both Love and Hell.

The great revivalists preached both, it is almost like we are serving up a big mac version of the gospel.

If a soul is saved because he is made uncomfortable about his sin then shouldnt we become uncomfortable at times, and hopefully by the leading of hte Holy Spirit to speak directly to the consequences of sin and the only remedy.

TheRick2018 Thanks regards Oskar.

dear the rick, in the old COVENANT that God cut with abraham law and sacrifice to cover sin was in affect by the shedding of animals blood and it was for jews only.we live under a new and BETTER covenant based on Jesus and Him crucified with better promises based on grace and His faith tht takes away sin. the old lived under the wrath of the Father andin the new;the wrath was poured out on Jesus.i am hid with Christ in God and have full security based on the what Jesus has done for me even tho i am as unworthy as a worm.jimp