Sinner's Prayer...

Can someone please show me the "sinner's prayer" in the Bible. I thought the purpose of the reformation was to stick with Scripture? Why do we still promote this tradition?

Please, if you know you can't be objective with this topic then pass.

hi, for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.jimp

Romans 10:9-10 is a favorite verse that is twisted by those who promote that ritual.

This is a video that deals with the real meaning of that scripture...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s19TU7F6QfI

"God be merciful to me a sinner."

Lk 18:13

Nowhere in the Bible will we find any example of a "repeat this prayer after me" kind of prayer.

Every God-honoring prayer recorded in God's Word is seen as coming from the heart of the person/s praying, without any repeating of any words after someone else.

hi, this place sometimes drives me crazy...no place in the bible will you find a repeat after me. and Jesus said "when you pray, say Our Father etc." the sinners prayer has been used to lead millions and millions of people to Jesus.do you think Jesus rejected these peoples plea as they recognized the grace provided by His death on the cross?He said that He came not to condemn the world but to save it.Jesus put the cookies on the bottom shelf so that even a child could be saved.those who come to Jesus ,He will not cast out. i am glad you are not the Lord so i would have to follow your formula.i have seen thousands saved in my life time and i weep every time one gets saved and cannot understand the hardness of hearts here.jimp

Jimp is right. I used to be this way. I saw the flaw in the form and failed to see the heart of the matter. I went on a crusade against altar calls and sinner's prayers...etc. but I didn't know what spirit I was in. When I became honest with myself, I realized that I was only trying to replace what I saw as flawed with yet another form!

I understand the frustrations with the 'church-in-a-box' approach. But what is accomplished by proving my point on an internet forum? or even winning an argument with a brother who disagrees with me about this?

Serve the Lord in Spirit and in Truth and love the brethren, even the messed up and weak ones...Our love for them will be more effective than our correctness will be.

Let me be specific... After the Gospel is preached, the preacher will usually ask if anyone wants to be saved. Those who do will repeat the sinner's prayer, at which point the preacher will usually tell everyone to rejoice because all these people got saved... Are all those people who sayed the prayer saved?

jimp wrote:

"Jesus put the cookies on the bottom shelf so that even a child could be saved"

I love this-- might have to copy it some time!

Steve--

to your question, i would say they are saved if they were truly seeking to be saved, and not just doing it because everyone else was, out out of some other motive.

Think about it- if a person is being convicted by the HS during a message, or whatever, they may need some guidance as to what to do. The Phillipian jailer asked Paul and Silas what he had to do to be saved-- and they told him simply to believe on the Lord Jesus.

All that being said, a true convert will begin to evidence fruit. I think your concern is that having a person say a sinner's prayer may produce false converts and this is true. It is the Church's responsibility to follow up with and disciple these people. I believe there is a lot of failure by the Church to do this. But it is not necessarily the fault of a "sinner's prayer." This is because a person has to start somewhere.

To be honest, in the NT at least, it seems that baptism was a huge if not essential part of the "formula." I am not saying that baptism is required for salvation, but in the NT converts were baptized so soon that they really were intertwined.

I, and untold thousands, have entered salvation by saying some version of a sinner's prayer. I do not think that everyone who says a sinner's prayer is saved, but nor would I say that no one who says one is saved.

steve, are you a whosoever?whosoever that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. what shall i do to be saved ? believe on Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved. you tell me. this is where almost everyone drops the ball. so now you have a baby and we ususally send them on their way to live or die, to fail or to succeed... you wouldnot do that to a baby... the great commision says to make disciples of these believers... they need baby sitters who can lead them step by step. they need a bible and someone trained to guide them and answer their questions.personnal follow up from the start is what we do.jimp

THK,
thanks for your reply. I've been thinking a lot about salvation in regards to regeneration. I myself have said a sinners prayer(more than once), but was that prayer the start, or a result? You said, "I would say they are saved if they were truly seeking to be saved". One who isn't saved, would they seek to be saved? Or are you saying one gets saved which initiates the seeking resulting in the experience?

hi, just my two cents again. The Lord's prayer is meant to be an example of what Christians should be praying about, not a word for word formula ritual prayer.

I acknowledge that by God's grace and mercy there have been some who have been saved through this unbiblical formula of the sinner's prayer. Likewise there may be people who are saved under the ministry of people like Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, etc. God is rich in mercy and will save anyone who's heart is turned toward Him in sincere repentance and faith in Christ. That doesn't give anyone an excuse to continue harmful practices and teachings.

On the other hand, there have been millions more who have been deceived and harmed by the sinner's prayer. They have been deceived into thinking all they need to do is repeat a prayer and that's it, their in; that they can continue as things were before they said the prayer; that the prayer is their fire insurance.

These are just of few testimonies of people who were harmed by the sinner's prayer....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQsGlS0sQ4&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvDAygfVVX0

This is a clip from Paul Washer on this topic...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4axy22oTkA&feature=fvwrel

Oracio,
My intent with this thread is to be objective, please don't try to target and discredit.

steve83, I'm not sure what you meant in your last comment there.

I agree with Oracio that many people have been deceived by the sinner's prayer. But that is not the fault of the "sinner's prayer." It is the fault of a Church which in many cases drops the ball once a person "goes forward" or raises their hand in a meeting while everyone's heads are bowed and eyes are closed. (if we dont know who raised their hand, how can we disciple them?)

I believe public declarations are important, which is why I believe baptism is important. The NT evidence seems to be that actions speak louder than words.

But in all honesty, I dont see how we get around some sort of a "sinner's prayer" if someone is ready to repent and submit to the rule of Jesus Christ. From a purely theoretical standpoint, I believe that a person can be legitimately and fully "saved" w/o uttering a word, if they repent and submit themselves to Christ and begin evidencing fruits of the Spirit. However, from a practical standpoint, I believe that it is important for a person to make some sort of statement of faith, need and commitment.

Think about it, if we are sharing the gospel with someone and lo and behold they are convicted and want to turn their lives over to Jesus, what should we do? I think we should of course tell them what that means (count the cost)but I think ultimately they should say some sort of a prayer. What exactly form that prayer may take will vary, but God knows the intent and the heart.

I see it differently. If a "convert" doesn't produce fruit, it's because he wasn't regenerated/made alive in the first place. There is no prayer or act of will that can make someone a new creation in Christ. If I'm regenerated, fruit is a natural result. Jesus said, make the tree good and it will produce good fruit. He who began a good work in you will complete it

hi, it is not genuine to think some one walks out on a platform and says repeat after me...the preaching of the gospel of the bloody death of Jesus Christ. the knowlege that He is risen. the knowlege that He took the wrath meant for us upon Himself...the knowlege that He did this because He loves us and wants us to be saved.the Holy
Spirit then woos the lost and makes the lost realize that today is their day of salvation... the obedience to the wooing of the Holy Spirit by coming forward and professing publickly Jesus as their LOrd and saviour.dont tell me millions of these folks are lost.jimp as i stated earlier, this is when the church comes in to disciple this person by making sure they have a bible, felloowship,direction(beginner classes). the true meaning of repentance.etc

hi, yes, the vast majority of the people going forward at these kinds of events, crusades, services, etc. are absolutely lost. An old friend of mine used to do follow-up work for a huge well-known crusade where thousands came forward over a weekend. They would collect many "decision" cards and call these folk up to do "follow-up".

If my memory serves me right he said out of the many follow-ups he did he never got in contact with one single person who seemed interested in following Christ afterward. He said he was discouraged and confused because so many of the people that came forward wanted absolutely nothing to do with Christ, His Word, or church afterward. He then realized it was mostly a sham, the whole crusade. The people going forward had many alterior motives for going forward.

Some went forward just to get a close look at the baseball field, some because of an emotional high, etc. Very few actually got saved out of the thousands. I am convinced that this whole sinner's prayer business is one of the reasons there are so many false converts today.

It's like when they answer yes to all the questions, say the prayer, and write the date on the front of their new bible to remind them that "this was the day I got saved". When they were never made alive in the first place, because there is no prayer, right answer, or hearts desire that can do it.

hi, the church that i am associated with baptizes an average of 50 plus per week in a separate service after a class on baptism and how it shows the picture of what is really happening in the new believers life.we have thousands of home groups and a youth program where 7000 students meet every week.; dont tell me what somebody said . i seeGod moving in power in my area.jimp

may I ask what church this is?

hi,the name of the church is bethany and it is in baker la.(baton rouge).jimp

Example of Sinner's prayer- Luke 18 - 13:-
1 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be [f]merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; ”

The thing is this man went home justified. He did not go home justified because someone took a class to him and said if you tell this prayer you will be justified. No he knew in his heart that he is justified. To be justified means God looks at him as if he has not sinned at all. All these methods of conducting classes to tell people how they should feel is to bring a cheap grace where you put a false belief into their hear.

Secondly the tax collector was justified, but was he saved? I don't think so. Here the tax collector did not pray to Jesus or even said that Jesus died for him. Still God justified him. The point here is forgiveness of sins was there even before Jesus came to earth and being forgiven from my sins is not a salvation. Forgiveness is not the grace that Jesus bought. It was there even before him. So all these Churches who relay on Sinners player are taking people to old conventant life where you get only forgiven but not saved.

What is salvation? To be saved from Sin. Matthew 1-21:-
She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for ]He will save His people from their sins.

To be really saved from their sins, they need to seek sanctification, they need to workout what God is willing to work inside them. Not everyone who are forgiven are saved. And it is sad that salvation is today reduced to just being forgiven, which was there even before Jesus came to earth. How many churches preach true salvation which is not just going from Hell to heaven but to be saved from Sin.

God is not interested in numbers, Jesus said large number of people are on their way to hell. Only few will find the narrow way. Devil has blinded people to believe that if I have large number of people getting converted then there is God presence. But it is not true.

sree, what happened on the day of pentacost? why did they mention the large number. which were saved ,which were not saved?each number represents someone who misses hell. it would be nice if those numbers include your family and dear friends . sanctification comes from faith in the cross also.either you are dead and buried with Him or not.either you arein Christ or not.i am glad that i am one included in the numbers.jimp

sree, what happened on the day of pentacost? why did they mention the large number. which were saved ,which were not saved?each number represents someone who misses hell. it would be nice if those numbers include your family and dear friends . sanctification comes from faith in the cross also.either you are dead and buried with Him or not.either you arein Christ or not.i am glad that i am one included in the numbers.jimp

I am not against mentioning number. I am against saying that just because the number is high it is work of God. God is not interested in numbers. It is true that only a reminiscent will be saved. The day of Pentecost is not about numbers it is about people (Apostles) who were once afraid of Jews (to stand for Jesus) stood in-front of them, speaking boldly about Jesus, whom the Jews crucified. This boldness and change of nature is the evidence of work of the spirit.

Again you keep thinking that Salvation is escaping Hell, no it is not. There is not a single verse in Bible that says Salvation is escaping hell and Going to Heaven. Heaven is a by product of being saved from Sinful nature. These are ideas of people who want more men to get more money. Anyone will be interested in Heaven, if you ask one do you want to go to heaven he will say yes, tell this prayer, he will say yes. Does that mean he is saved? How can God save someone from his Sins if he still loves living in Sin?

Sree,
You cant be justified/forgiven apart from being regenerated and the result of that is glorification. You make it sound As if God can forgive sin but not deliver from the power of it.

You make it sound As if God can forgive sin but not deliver from the power of it.

In every miracle that Jesus did he always made sure the person he healed has both faith and hunger to be healed. If the blind man answered Jesus that, I am happy being blind, do you think Jesus will forcefully give him sight? I believe he would have walked away from the blindman. But does that mean Jesus cannot heal the blind man?

dear sree, where does it say God is not interested in numbers?he promised abraham that his seed would have the numbers like the stars. thoughout the scriptures, eveything was numbered,their is even a book of numbers. each number is someone that Jesus died for. why do you think that these people are going to live in any more sin than you live with. why do not see that Jesus conquered sin for those who believe.your statements are not true because they are based upon you working to keep yourself saved. Jesus is the One who saves and keeps us saved.He is our redeemer. He is the one who cut the covenant in His body for God and man for us. He is the one who interceeds for us. we are born into Him.He died for the whole world and came not to condemn the world. He wants the biggest number posible.jimp

I never said salvation is by work. Salvation is by faith alone . But that does not mean that I deceive my self that I am saved when I love living in Sin. Christianity is not a theory that cannot be lived. It is a life, Christ really saves us from the power of sin. Eternal life can be experienced on this earth, it is not something that starts only after death. If I say this practical aspect of Christianity why does that appear like work?

If someone is really interested in salvation he will search the truth further. For example Romans 10-13 says - Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Matthew 7 -21 is also true,
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

If a person is really interested in salvation he will not base it on one misquoted verse but will compare verse with another to understand the complete truth. Satan tried to deceive Jesus by misquoted verse from bible, same thing he does to today's so called Christians, but we can overcome only by quoting back scriptures like how Jesus did.

I think I made my point clear here, if I continue answering then it will only lead to more arguments. I am done posting in this thread.

Do you realize when someone is born again they're delivered from the power of sin? If a person continues to live in sin, it doesn't mean he took his will back, it means he wasn't born again

I haven't read hardly any of the comments, so my comments are not pointed toward anyone, they are just my experience, praise His holy name!

Approximately nine months to a year BEFORE the Sunday the Lord spoke to me and I was “saved....” I had a conversation with Him where I stated off handedly that “I can give up drinking, cussing and smoking cigarettes but I wasn’t give up smoking pot because I loved it, I smoked it several times a day everyday and in my logic, I had to quit for me, not Him. Well, I totally forgot making that declaration and a week before Easter Sunday in 1978, I gave up smoking pot to “get my head together” and my friends were like, “You what? Why?” LOL

Then somehow I promised my granny I’d go to church with her that coming Easter (and the church was 45 minutes to her house and then 45 minutes to church from there!) I was sitting there in the back row when I audibly heard His voice, “You quit for you.” I even looked over my shoulder to make sure someone wasn’t there and He said it again, “You quit for you.” I started weeping b/c I knew it was Jesus and that I had a decision to make. We had what seemed like a five minute conversation in a nano-second; every problem I came up with not to get ‘saved’ was solved and finally I said to Him, “If this doesn’t work, I’m coming back.” And I felt this huge smile over me and peace flooded my soul.

I was converted in that seat that day; I walked out of there a new creature in Christ without going up front, without anyone leading me in a “prayer,” and like the old hymn goes, “What He’s done for me, He’ll do for you, it is no secret what God can do.”!!!

To God be all the Glory!
Lisa

PS: I've considered that requiring people say the ‘sinner’s prayer’ was more for the leader of the prayer and not the person getting saved. Too many can quote “numbers” that they've lead to the Lord through the sinner’s prayer (seemingly for their glory and not God’s).

Hi TMK

RE: TMK wrote
///But in all honesty, I dont see how we get around some sort of a "sinner's prayer" if someone is ready to repent and submit to the rule of Jesus Christ. From a purely theoretical standpoint, I believe that a person can be legitimately and fully "saved" w/o uttering a word, if they repent and submit themselves to Christ and begin evidencing fruits of the Spirit. However, from a practical standpoint, I believe that it is important for a person to make some sort of statement of faith, need and commitment.

Think about it, if we are sharing the gospel with someone and lo and behold they are convicted and want to turn their lives over to Jesus, what should we do? I think we should of course tell them what that means (count the cost)but I think ultimately they should say some sort of a prayer. What exactly form that prayer may take will vary, but God knows the intent and the heart///

The Biblical statement of faith or outward expression of what has happened inward is Baptism. But the church has gotten so afraid that some might trust in the Baptism rather than Jesus that they have replaced it With other outward expressions in which the same result often happens, Probably more so, they trust in what they have done rather than in Jesus. We should go back to Baptism on conversion. (not regenerational baptism)

As the inspired scriptures declare in order

Acts ch 8
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

verse 37 is very important if it is missing it confuses everything.

hi, the church that i am associated with baptizes an average of 50 plus per week in a separate service after a class on baptism and how it shows the picture of what is really happening in the new believers life.we have thousands of home groups and a youth program where 7000 students meet every week.; dont tell me what somebody said . i seeGod moving in power in my area.jimp

Brother, after prayerful consideration of your church's website(checking out some of it's messages and things it stands for)I will post the following which I believe are some pros and cons. I do this hesitantly here, but I do it because this is a public discussion on a public forum where some things here have been posted for all to see.

Pros:

the leaders seem sincere in seeking after the Lord and praying for revival.

the leaders acknowledge great revivals of the past like the great awakening and seem to try to learn from them. I was encouraged and challenged in listening to some of their recent messages on past revivals.

they heavily encourage small groups.

there is some good Bible teaching coming from the pulpit in some areas.

Cons:

there is some mixture when it comes to understanding what true and false revival is. on the one hand they endorse the real revivals of the past but on the other hand they endorse false revivals of today such as toronto and brownsville.

there is exaggeration and hype in stating large exact numbers of how many people got born again in past revivals.

They recently gave a platform to a certain false prophet who is linked with word of faith false teachers.

They seem to have no concern for exhorting the Body of Christ to evangelize the US, they only encourage evangelizing or going on missions to other countries(that is the message that the main pastor gave in one of his sermons I heard).

The pastor acknowledged that most of the people who attended the church there are not really on fire for God but are only going through the motions of churchianity. he seemed very discontent with the lack of passion for God among church members there.

Brother, I will tell you this in love as a brother. Things are not always the way they seem to be outwardly. As long as they endorse a mixture of true and false revivals the Lord will not be pleased. I used to be deceived by a lot of the hype of the charismatic word of faith movement, and by large crusades that gave the appearance of many being saved. The Lord graciously set me free from much deception and He will do the same for any believer who is hungry for Him and His truth at all cost.

sincerely,
Oracio

if you would like to discuss any of these things privately I have my email on my profile.

Oracio... not sure why you took it upon yourself to critique jimp's church, but oh well.

You wrote:

"on the other hand they endorse false revivals of today such as toronto and brownsville."

Shouldn't blanket statements like this be avoided? I know there were some serious issues with these revivals, but in the case of Brownsville I think you have to be very careful about making such a statement. There WAS deep repentance and salvation during this time period down there. Obviously there were some issues but that is likely true of every move of God because people are fleshly. The leaders would admit that some things got out of hand at times.

I have listened to many many sermons by some of the speakers associated with the Brownsville revival. If you would do the same, I think you would have a differing viewpoint. These men are not false.

For starters you might listen to "Holy Desperation" by Michael L. Brown, which was spoken during this revival, and which is available on this site along with many of his other sermons.

Perhaps you can provide us with your ten point critique of what is wrong with his message.

TMK, I am very familiar with that "revival" and believe it was clearly not a genuine revival that honored the Lord. It was similar to toronto in many ways. A lot of hype and weird manifistations. I have listened to messages from the person you mentioned and would consider him to be a brother, but would not recommend his ideas on revival at all. We will have to agree to disagree I suppose.

TMK wrote "Oracio... not sure why you took it upon yourself to critique jimp's church, but oh well."

I think it is a fair thing to do if someone is claiming a church is moving in revival and seeing large numbers saved.

jimp claimed 50 people a week are being baptised at his church. Wow! 50 x 52 weeks = 2,600 folk a year! That is some number and would have a significant effect on the city after just a few years if they were all truly born of God. Has the crime stopped there? Have the bars closed down? Now if 2,600 folk said a prayer.... well! I just hope that the Pastor is careful who he baptises.

Oracio... not sure why you took it upon yourself to critique jimp's church, but oh well.

I'll tell you why. I have noticed a trend over the years here on this forum. Many times when someone posts something regarding concerns they have with the state and practices of the modern church, the brother often tries to quench that concern. And he will make these claims that his church is experiencing a powerful revival and therefore those of us who voice our concerns are just doom and gloom preachers who don't see the positive side of things.

So I thought I would finally take it upon myself to do a little homework to see for myself if his big claims regarding his church are actually true. Unfortunately, the evidence seems to be what I suspected originally, that the claims were exaggerated and hyped up as has been the usual case with many sincere believers who have promoted false revivals and manifestations in the past.

So because I am thankful that someone took the time to share their concern about false revivals and and false conversions when I was caught up in a lot of this type of hype, I thought I should return the favor to others who may be in the same boat I was once in.

Hi, I don't know if this helps but I got saved and filled with the spirit after repeating the sinners prayer.

I wanted Jesus in my life and I thought that was how you got him.
It was at an outdoor preach and someone asked me to repeat the prayer of asking Jesus into my life and asking him to forgive me. The devil immediately questioned what I had just prayed and I told him I didn't care what he was telling me I believed Jesus would come to me. Just then I received the spirit and was filled with an amazing joy.

TMK wrote
- "but in the case of Brownsville I think you have to be very careful about making such a statement. There WAS deep repentance and salvation during this time period down there." -

A short testimony: At that time (Brownsville) I attended a Church in Johannesburg, RSA. Mostly students with a few "older" believers as well. Though all seemed well, the Pastors wife (American) was burdened for the state of the Church, and went to Brownsville during a visit home, and was greatly ministered to. On her return she shared about her experience and while she was sharing something precious happened. People suddenly were on their faces repenting, weeping and being refreshed. I myself had a sudden revelation of my condition before God (I thought I was fine) and managed to straighten my course from where I had wandered, and like many others had a season of refreshing.

Unfortunately it all petered out in the end. Why? There were tares of unforgiveness towards white believers that sprung up and choked (wearied down) the work, and also something that is on my heart lately - the old wineskins were never replaced. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins.

Blessings

Hi, I don't know if this helps but I got saved and filled with the spirit after repeating the sinners prayer.

I wanted Jesus in my life and I thought that was how you got him.
It was at an outdoor preach and someone asked me to repeat the prayer of asking Jesus into my life and asking him to forgive me. The devil immediately questioned what I had just prayed and I told him I didn't care what he was telling me I believed Jesus would come to me. Just then I received the spirit and was filled with an amazing joy.

Your testimony reminds me of the blind man in John chapter 9 who said that, I don't know whether Jesus is a sinner or Prophet, all I know is I was born blind and he made me see. What an amazing bold testimony it was.

Again, for every testimony of people being saved through repeating the prayer there are countless more who were harmed and deceived by it. Yet many believers will resort to pragmatism(if it works, do it) to defend it instead of examining it in light of God's Word. The norm in the Bible is that the gospel was preached and the lost were exhorted to repent and believe in Christ. We see this over and over, not "repeat this prayer after me."

A huge problem I have with this formula is that it has become the standard of success for many when it comes to reaching the lost. If you get someone to say the prayer you are seen as having succeeded and if you don't get them to say it you didn't succeed. Yet biblically our job is to sow the seed of the gospel and leave the results of conversion with God. The sinner's prayer is used to manipulate the lost, to produce conversions in the arm of the flesh for the most part.

For a time I went door to door and it was fairly easy for me to get someone to repeat the prayer after me and then pronounce them saved. Yet afterward I found that these same people who repeated the prayer wanted nothing to do with God. I was responsible for manipulating and deceiving many people, which I deeply regret. The Lord had to open my eyes to this grave error.

Just for those who do not know this story-
The story goes that Charles Spurgeon, was walking down the street one day when a man who was drunk and leaning on a lamppost yelled out to him:
Hey, Mr. Spurgeon, do you remember me?
No, why should I?
Because I am one of your converts
Spurgeon’s response? - “Well, you must be one of mine; you’re certainly not one of the Lord’s.”

"The greatest heresy in America today is the thought that if someone asks Jesus to come into his heart that He will definitely come in."

Simply because a man says a prayer to be saved does not mean that this man will be regenerated. How can I say this when Romans 10:9 seem to so clearly state the contrary? Simply because we don't know the heart of the one saying the prayer.

Say there is an unregenerate young man sitting in a church service, and his conscience begins to get active. The young man knows that he is living in sin and knows that his fate is Hell if he doesn't do something about it. He hears the minister says something wonderful however,

"If anyone will accept the Lord Jesus into his heart, he will be saved and go to Heaven to live forever rather than be separated form Him."

The altar call is given the young man immediately goes to the front to partake of this wonderful free pass from his punishment that is offered in Jesus Christ. He truly doesn't desire to go to Hell, so he thankfully walks to the front and repeats the words sincerely after the minister.

After the prayer the minister looks the young man in the eyes and says, "If you were sincere, you are now saved, and when Jesus comes back or you die, you will go to heaven with Him."

The young man leaves the church, and everyone is so thankful that there was salvation in the church that day, "Oh, how the Lord moved in our midst."

What however is the issue with this story? Consider this:

The young man did not see himself as an anarchist against God's just law, he simply saw that that his skin was going to be singed if he didn't do something about. The minister told him of a get out of jail free card, all he had to do was confess with his mouth that Jesus was Lord, and he would be saved. The young man leaves the church (possibly with the intention to live a little better and give up some bad habits), but has not been made a new creature. His mind has not been changed from "pleasing self" to "pleasing Christ." Yet he now has assurance, because he said a prayer, that if he lives a better life morally and comes to church pretty regular, he's been born again.

This young man may spend the next 50 years of his life sitting on a pew in church listening to sermons, but always believing that he is born again. When he feels the conviction of the Holy Spirit from a message, he brushes it off as the Devil attempting to bother him. The thought goes through his mind that he has already "said the prayer and gotten saved" there is no need to seek after a salvation he already has.

This is the danger of the sinner's prayer. Rather than a man coming to the minister to tell him that God has saved him, the minister tells the man that God has saved him, and he has no right whatsoever to do such a thing. Salvation is an issue between God and the sinner.

Preach the Gospel, explain how a man is to be saved, and tell him to go seek after God till He saves him. Be gracious and loving, pray for the man, but do not step in and do something that God alone has the right to do.

I don't say these things to be controversial... Only that we as ministers and servants for Christ might deal with the souls of men the way that Christ would have us to, which is to preach the gospel and give them to the Holy Spirit to convict and convert.

Blessings
givensdj

hi, did someone tell you to say a prayer so that you will not go to hell?is that the gospel message?the gospel is the cross with all the blood,the death while taking the Fathers wrath on Himself, thtaking captive those who died in faith, the resseurectionwhich demonstrated the total victory over sin ,death ,hell and the grave.the provision is there to be grasped if you make Jesus your Lord.the problem is not the sinners prayer at all. the problem is we do not make it clear that we are inviting people to come and die.jimp

There is POWER in the BlOOD!

Jesus is the perfect Lamb of God, the Paschal Lamb whose blood, shed on a cross, washes away all sins of every person who accepts Jesus Atoning blood washes away all their sins - past, present, and future.

The only way we are saved is through accepting Jesus death on the cross as paying the penalty in full for all our sins. Jesus kept God's entire Mosaic Laws in our place.

Not having sinned, Jesus becomes the perfect Lamb of God One sacrifice of the LAMB OF GOD, for all time, His shed blood washes all our sins away forever, to all who accepts the blood that Jesus shed on the cross as atonement for all our sins: Past - Present - and Future. One Scarifice sin offering for all time, no need for another blood sacrifice of another perfect Lamb to wash away our sins for only another year.

The blood Jesus shed on the cross washes away all sins of all who accept this atoning blood of Jesus.

Upon His death, God annihilated the Mosaic Covenant, a covenant no human could ever keep, except the only begotten Son of God, who died on a cross on our behalf, that His righteousness is accounted to us Christians, who have accepted His atoning blood as washing away

Our part, we are to simply believe Him, enter into fellowship with Jesus ("he who abides in me I will abide in him"), upon which we receive the Holy Spirit, 'God in me', and we become a child of God. It is as if we are back in the Garden of Eden, through the indwelling Holy Spirit in us, God in us, whom works in us daily to change our very nature, that we may be transformed that we may naturally do the good God created us to do. It is through this sincere daily walk with God, Whom loves us dearly, that our nature becomes transformed to be a people who does the good that God created us to do. And Not by threats of punishment and rejection if we disobey, but by His wonderful love and mercy for us, His children.

What man can't do, God can do. We were too weak to save ourselves by obedience to the whole Mosaic Law. Upon Jesus death, God annihilated the Mosaic Covenant with its' 613 laws. A LAW no man could keep, except Jesus, God in the flesh.

What man can not do, Jesus did for us on the cross, a true gift of God to all who accept this wonderful gift.

This New Covenant we have in Jesus, wherein humans are not saved by the works of the Law, but as a gift of God to all who accept Jesus and believe in His finished work on the cross, we are saved by His faith, all our sins are forgiven for all time, and that we have indwelling the Holy Spirit, knowing that if we confess our sins, God will always forgive their sins, and HE will cleanse them from all unrighteousness.

What God says He will do in us, His children, it will get done.

A pretty good deal for us, heh!!

And all true Christians, regardless of denomination, believe that God's work in us will produce His good nature in us and the fruit of this will be shown in our good works that we will do naturally, having had our inner nature be changed from a spirit of rebellion to Godliness, God's work in us as we walk and rejoice in Him daily.

And we shall have eternal life, the promise of the abundant life partialy now, but mostly when God takes us to His Kingdom, a true gift from God to us through Jesus, and the indwelling Holy Spirit, God in us. Even now, I am at peace because what God has accomplished for us through the Finished work on the Cross By His only begotten Son Jesus, and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

This is longer than what I hoped it would be, and if I was somewhat redundant, forgive me.

The question I should've asked: if someone prays the sinners prayer, are they saved?

if they just mouthed the words;no. but if they truly got the message of the cross;yes.jimp

agreed, if they just mouth words, no, but if they repent and trust in Christ yes.

Here's the problem. Multitudes are invited to come forward and say the prayer in crusades, church services, and one on ones, and we automatically pronounce them saved on the spot. We hear, "3,000 came forward and got saved, 100 got saved, 40 got saved, etc." What's wrong with that? What's wrong is that the vast majority of those people are absolutely lost and have now been "gospel-hardened" by this unbiblical "formula/ritual". If all those people were really being saved we would be in the midst of a massive awakening, but instead there is a massive amount of false conversions being produced by the hour.

We prefer to keep the delusion so that we can say that God is using us and we are adding more numbers.

Why don't we just do what Jesus and the prophets and apostles did? Why not pray and fast and preach the gospel and let God convert them without us trying to convert them with our manipulating methods?

Quote: Simply because a man says a prayer to be saved does not mean that this man will be regenerated.

So what do you have to be saved then?

It seems very subjective to me. Just like I can't declare one to be save, I can't declare one not saved

Quote: Simply because a man says a prayer to be saved does not mean that this man will be regenerated.

So what do you have to be saved then?

To be saved you must repent(turn from your sins to God) and believe in Christ(trust in Him alone to save you).

Jesus said by their fruit you will know them. Repeating a prayer or going forward at an altar call is not sufficient fruit to indicate someone is saved. If someone seems to be bearing the fruit of the Spirit then we can safely say they seem saved and call them a brother or sister in the Lord.

Quote: To be saved you must repent(turn from your sins to God) and believe in Christ(trust in Him alone to save you).

Do you mean that I must stop sinning to be saved?

If not the what do you mean?

Edited to ask second question.

murrcolr wrote:

"Do you mean that I must stop sinning to be saved?"
_____________________________

As the scriptures indicate, even if sinless perfection is not necessarily a description of the Christian life, it is nonetheless the DETERMINATION of the Christian life. A true believer really believes that Jesus is the Lord, and gladly embraces that reality with a determination to actualize and demonstrate that lordship in his/her own conduct.

I am "saved," or not, insofar as I have, or have not, truly "changed my mind" (repented, metanoia) from its original inclination. From birth, our minds are set on doing our own thing, gratifying our own lusts, and manipulating all people and circumstances to serve our own interests. The mind must change in this respect. The mind must choose to renounce all this self-interest and embrace Christ's Lordship as the defining paradigm for all of life. When such a change of mind has genuinely occurred, the believer's life will be directed toward obedience and righteousness—but not flawlessly.

Many people, to commemorate this action, say something along the lines of a "sinner's prayer" wherein they thank God for saving them, a sinner, through faith in what Jesus did on the cross, commit to following Him from that point forward. But is not NECESSARILY the sinner's prayer that saves them, although it MIGHT be depending on their heart condtion and motive at that moment.

In the film, "The Robe" the character of Marcellus Gallo makes this pronouncement: "From this day forward, I am enlisted in His service. I offer Him my fortune, my sword, and my life. And this I pledge to you on my honor as a Roman."

That is as good a sinner's prayer as any, because it was simply a statement and confirmation of the heart transformation that had already taken place.

Amen TMK. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote: A true believer really believes that Jesus is the Lord, and gladly embraces that reality with a determination to actualize and demonstrate that lordship in his/her own conduct.

Quote: I am "saved," or not, insofar as I have, or have not, truly "changed my mind.

Quote: That is as good a sinner's prayer as any, because it was simply a statement and confirmation of the heart transformation that had already taken place.

So let’s review what you have said.

1. I am saved because I changed my mind.
2. Make a simple statement to confirm that change
3. Show that Jesus is Lord by "determination" to "actualize and demonstrate that lordship.

I hope I have been fair to your post.

I must go back to the first time I encountered God, as I sat on my bed I said a simple prayer that “ God I am fed up being like this please change me” As I lay down on my bed a wind left me and then a wind entered into me. After which I sat up and spoke in a funny language, I ask what that was and the answer that came to my mind was tongues.

All it was simple faith in a God who could hear and answer prayer… I didn’t have to show any “determination" to "actualize and demonstrate that lordship”. I was changed and all that knew me before could see the change there was no self-effort on my part.

I must go back to the first time I encountered God, as I sat on my bed I said a simple prayer that “ God I am fed up being like this please change me”

All it was simple faith in a God who could hear and answer prayer… I didn’t have to show any “determination" to "actualize and demonstrate that lordship”.

In saying that prayer from the depths of your heart("God I am fed up being like this please change me"), you did what TMK is speaking of, he simply explained it in more eloquent words. You were "fed up" with the way you were living apart from God and "determined" to let God change you("please change me"), to "actualize and demonstrate that lordship."

Quote: you did what TMK is speaking of, he simply explained it in more eloquent words.

Lol well at least God liked them...