The most deadly judgment

M

makrothumia Oct 30, 2012

Dear Saints,

I have no desire to take away from the sober reality that severe physical judgments will be poured out upon the face of the earth, possibly even soon and perhaps even upon our own nation. That is why I started a new post rather than comment on another recent post. We should take heed to the reality of physical retribution from God upon all ungodly acts and attitudes of wickedness.

However, the deadliest form of judgment is not visible, and for those who receive it, there is no remedy. I refer to the judgment of being given a "strong delusion" or "working delusing" that Paul referenced in his letter to the church of Thessanolica. This judgment is not corrective but completely destructive, an anihilation for taking pleasure in unrighteousness.

Those who refuse the love of the truth so as to be saved will receive a damnation that they will never see coming. They will be completely destroyed without having any sense of the impending judgment already upon them.

Severe physical, visible, reprisals may be on the horizon for our nation, but the condemnation for those who have refused the love of the truth is already being poured out. The strong delusion is not on the horizon, it is presently at work as is the mystery of lawlessness.

makrothumia

S

sermonindex Oct 30, 2012

However, the deadliest form of judgment is not visible, and for those who receive it, there is no remedy. I refer to the judgment of being given a "strong delusion" or "working delusing" that Paul referenced in his letter to the church of Thessanolica. This judgment is not corrective but completely destructive, an anihilation for taking pleasure in unrighteousness.

Amen dear brother. And sadly this judgement currently is more prevalent but less talked about because many are deceived that they can claim to know God but deny Him by their life's actions. Many also think that 2 Thessalions chapter 2 can apply to believers who will be "given over" as they have been deceived by the spirit of antichrist and finally the antichrist himself.

These are indeed sobering times to be living and we must be on guard as our Saviour stated:

Matthew 24:4 - And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.

Thank you for the timely post dear brother.

S

sermonindex Oct 30, 2012

Perhaps tbe most deluding spirit of all is believing that God is not speaking through certain events. That in looking at the last 10 years. We have seen a terrorist attack upon this nation, tsunamies and earthquakes killing hundreds of thousands of people, a drought not seen since the thirties, an economic recession to revive tbe great depression, and now a superstorm striking the Northeast, etc.

The biggest delusion is not believing God is speaking through these events. Believing they are not judgements of God. Yet many professing Christians will blow off these events as random. And that is a dangerous deception.

Bearmaster.

J

jimp Oct 30, 2012

hi, worrying about judgement again and again and again... about delusions... about ending and current events...this is not what we should be doing . we should be resting in the only provision that was provided and not seeking after anything new...JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED is our provision for salvation,sanctification,deliverance.nothing added... no works... no worry..nothing!jimp

S

sermonindex Oct 30, 2012

Then Jimp why were the signs given in Mathew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21? That is the signs pointing to the return of Jesus Christ.

Bearmaster.

J

jimp Oct 30, 2012

hi, why did jesus say to take no thought of tomorrow?did you know that tomorrow everything at wallmart is 90%off. tomorrow never comes... today is your day for salvation... choose this day whom you will serve...His mercies are new every morning... the foolish vergins were going to get oil tomorrow.we live by faith and faith is now... we hope in the future.rest in Jesus and His love for He has already come in my life.jimp judgement is the opposite of grace and we are sozoed by grace and not judgement.

S

sermonindex Oct 30, 2012

Jimp you are looking for an argument. You will mot get one from me. You must do what you see best in following Jesus.

Bear standing down.

S

staff Oct 30, 2012

Hi All,
Carter Conlon this evening
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
--------------------------------------------------------
I agree with him,he came not to condemn but to save
In all difficulties God will speak to people and like 9/11 this will make people for a while think about the real future.
God wants to pour out his Grace not his Judgement but if he does Judge then that judgement is true.However Grace is greater than Judgement.
It is a great opportunity to shine in the darkness,
God bless all Christians involved in relief efforts around the affected states,
Amen Staff

D

dbiser Oct 31, 2012

Physical judgments and spiritaul judgments are one thing; But the most deadly judgment is not delusion presently. The most deadly judgment is 'the second death'. For it is final; it is everlasting; no reprieve; no tomorrow.

J

jimp Oct 31, 2012

hi, i am never looking for an argument.i know nothing among you save Jesus and Him crucified.excuse me while i wallow in His finished work.jimp

S

sermonindex Oct 31, 2012

Sorry. No post.

S

sermonindex Oct 31, 2012

Good original post. Very true.

O

Oracio Oct 31, 2012

jimp, for once I will have to agree with you on this one brother;) If we truly know the Lord we should bask in the grace and mercy of Jesus, giving praise and thanksgiving to Him for who He is and what He's done. God's Word is filled with admonitions to have a joyful spirit in light of our relationship with Him.

However, I also agree with the original post that spiritual judgments from God are worse than physical ones, and that there is a serious danger that many are in of falling under that kind of judgment.

I do believe it's wise for us to be aware of the strong delusions that are prevalent in this day and age. This type of awareness brings to light the holiness of God and helps us to walk in fear(reverence) and trembling before him.

But we must be careful that as blood-bought children of God we don't bring unecessary fear of God's judgment upon ourselves, that we don't foolishly apply certain kinds of warnings to ourselves which only apply to the unsaved.

So maybe there should be a balance.

I also agree with dbiser:

Physical judgments and spiritaul judgments are one thing; But the most deadly judgment is not delusion presently. The most deadly judgment is 'the second death'. For it is final; it is everlasting; no reprieve; no tomorrow.

Consideration of that most-awful and dreadful fate of the ungodly should cause us to have compassion for them and reach out to them with the everlasting gospel that is able to save them to the uttermost.

S

sermonindex Oct 31, 2012

But we must be careful that as blood-bought children of God we don't bring unecessary fear of God's judgment upon ourselves, that we don't foolishly apply certain kinds of warnings to ourselves which only apply to the unsaved.

Quite true, however this is not the case with Paul's warning in 2 Thessalonians 2. The context was in relation to the great falling away (apostasy from the faith). Of course it applies also to unbelievers being given over, but the context is not referencing unbelievers. One cannot fall away from something they were never a part of.

We would do ourselves, other believers, Paul, and the Holy Spirit who inspired it to be written, a great disservice if we dismissed it as a caveat simply for the unsaved. We're already seeing the beginning of this.

If you're curious for a recent example I've seen, just go to Google and type in "Brian McLaren gay son wedding", and prepare to be dumbfounded by how much support he has, and compare it to what Romans 1:32 has to say of such things.

It would appear that the falling away is already beginning. To put ones head in the sand and say, "I could never be deceived!" is a deception in itself. Time for all of us to make sure we know Jesus in both spirit and in truth.

B

brothagary Oct 31, 2012

gee jim the warnings about judment come from the lords mouth ,the apostal paull warned day and night for three years ,about a strong delusion ,jesus ,alked about hell more then heaven

sure we sould never worry

but jim you are i believe falsely implying that the brothers in this thread are comiting sin by worrying about judment and delusion

can you even prove that any of these presious saints are comiting the sin of worrying

satan job is to falsely accuse the saints of sin

paul said warning every man and teaching every man with all wisdom that we may precent them perfect in christ

concider that this is what is being done ,,unless you know they are comiting sin for sure

soboring warnings ,,,,

and bibilical doctrine ,,,,,add that to salvation ,sancitification,deliverence that you mentioned ,and then we are geting closer to what the bible exorts us to believe and teach

no works you say ,,whattt

paul said be carfull to mantain good works

god bless us

S

sermonindex Oct 31, 2012

Honestly, we deceive ourselves with a spirit of delusion to not take heed to the physical signs of judgement that God is bringig upon this planet. God has laid out in tbe gospels, the letters of his servants, and the book of Revelation tbe things that take place prior to his coming. And these come from a mericiful loving heavenly Father to warn us that the time is near and we are to be about the business of his kingdom. That business is to tell men that must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

God has warned us, consustantly, in the New Testament to watch and pray. Paul admonished us to understand the present time and to wake up from our slumber. For our salvation is nearer now than we first believed. God is telling us that an hour of urgency is here. Not panic but urgency. To be about tbe things of Christ. And yet some of you still want to debate this.

There is a tendancy on the part of some to dismiss those who say take heed to tbe urgency of the hour. They are accused to revelling in judgement and condemnation. Those who warn are accused of being unloving. Dwelling on gloom. And s forth.

Those who dismiss tbe watchman say focus on tbe liove and finished work of Christ of Christ on tbe cross. He has born our judgement. Those who dismiss the watchman are implying the watchman does not belueve that God has born our judgement upon the cross.

Saints tbe watchman believes in tbe work of redemption and the finished work of Christ kn tbe cross. But tbe scriptures teach that God is returnng to this planet and has given signs to tell of his coming. And because of that urgency the watchmen cry for the redeemed to wake up and tbe unsaved to flee to the finished work of Christ. To find salvstion in him.

Tell me, was the weather forcaster who warned people in the Northeast about Sandy and its destruction accused of giving bad news. Were the meteoroligist accused of gloom and doom when they warned tbe people to prepare for tbe coming storm. I can hear it now. Oh nan. I wish that weather person would stop talking about a superstorm and focus on a sunny weather picture.

Indeed Jesus was right when he said that tbe people of this age are more shrewed then are tbe sons of light. At least tbe people of this age will heed tbe weather reports. They will take physical preparations.

Tragically Christians, and perhaps some in this forum, dismiss the warnings of scripture about tbe soon return of Jesus Christ. They will relegate tbe warnings to some far off fictional event. They will be tbe ones saying peace and safety. Yes, they will say they are saved by Jesus. But ignore tbe urgency of tbe hour and the things that are happening.kn tbe earth. To speak of these things one will be accused of gloom and doom.

Dear saint. Wake up. A sjperstorm has devastated tbe Northeast. Scientist call it tbe storm of a lifetime. I know, many will say, Bear storms have always happened. They will rebuild and life will go back to tbe way ut was. But a few will awake and ask what are you saying in tbis hour dear God? How do I respond to what transpired? Holy God what would you have me do? This will be the remnant Gos is calling to himself.

Bearnaster

S

stevet83 Oct 31, 2012

How can anyone say this is referring to Christians?
2 Thess.1:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The warning is warranted, but Christians don't need to worry they will be the ones who God does this to. This is a judgement upon those who aren't saved & had no love for the truth.
1 Cor.1:8-9Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

J

jimp Oct 31, 2012

hi, in no way have i ever on this site accused anyone of sinning.Jesus took away our sins on the cross. if you love Him you will keep His commandments.it is the goodness of God that brings salvation.if we take a look at the history of His people who made it a habit of sinning against Him.it is always His deliverance through judgement .no plagues in the land of goshen.deliverance through the red sea with the treasures of egypt.through the wilderness in their unbelief.deliverance through the jordan.miracle victory in battle as soon as they enter land....deliverance through the firey furnace and the lions den.although i walk through the valley of the shadow of death i will fear no evil.many other examples of God taking care of those who love Him...He is my abba and He loves me ;even sent His Son to die for me, i am seated with Him inheavenly places.judgement is on the earth and those who refuse Him.i live by grace ,not judgement.jimp

S

sermonindex Oct 31, 2012

How can anyone say this is referring to Christians?

By reading the first part of the chapter. Paul is talking about Christians falling away in concordance with the activity of the antichrist and Satan through lying signs and wonders.

It's referencing and expounding on the warning Christ gave in Matthew 24.

M

makrothumia Oct 31, 2012

Dear Saints,

There is no greater security than making our calling and election sure. One can not read Paul, the writer of Hebrews, James, Peter, John, or Jude without seeing that every writer warned of the danger of spiritual carelessness and possible deception that the original readers were vulnerable to.

Giving all diligence to add to our faith, keeping ourselves in the love of God, praying in the Holy Spirit and making every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with Him will produce genuine eternal security.

Blessed are those servants whom Jesus finds doing His will when He returns. He Himself will serve them and reward them with every blessing He inherited from the Father.

The prudent servant appointed to provide food for his Master's servant corp became the evil slave after the long delay. His good beginning ended horribly. This is the mindset Jesus sought to instill in His own handpicked disciples. We would do well to take heed to our Lord's own warning ourselves.

makrothumia

S

sermonindex Oct 31, 2012

hi, in no way have i ever on this site accused anyone of sinning.Jesus took away our sins on the cross. if you love Him you will keep His commandments.it is the goodness of God that brings salvation.if we take a look at the history of His people who made it a habit of sinning against Him.it is always His deliverance through judgement

Dear Brother and Sisters,

I want to apologize for the lack of charity in my first post in this thread. Brother Alan clearly has given us a warning and exhortation from Scriptures that I feel was good for myself to read. I agree that Jesus Christ saves us from our sins and transforms us from sinners to saints. But we still sin and that is why 1 John 1:9 says for us to confess our sins, and James tells us to purify your hands sinners! He is speaking to those who are born-again. So I believe there is always a need to confess our sins and stay in close communion with our Lord.

I also believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross and that His death and blood bought men back to God. Our only true surety even above doing good works and allow our character to conform to His is for us to have a hope and trust in His blood and death on our behalf and to trust in it. Yet if that trust and hope does not work in us any change of life, desires, character toward the image of Christ it might be a false hope. A true hope in the atonement of Christ will make us daily to see how sinful we are yet give us hope to see how also he is cleansing us and making us more holy, calling us saints! We need both aspects and views.

I cannot save myself by good works or by choosing to die to self daily. But if I am to be save I must do these things. One comes from a moral desire to save one's self. The other comes from a response to saving grace which exhibits the soul has received such grace.

O

Oracio Oct 31, 2012

makrotumia wrote:

Giving all diligence to add to our faith, keeping ourselves in the love of God, praying in the Holy Spirit and making every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with Him will produce genuine eternal security.

Well said. That is to how to overcome and have full assurance of our salvation. If you are abiding in Christ, dying to self daily, mortifying the deeds of the flesh, you can have 100 percent assurance that you are one of His and rejoice that your name is written in heaven.

Again, my concern with the OP is that there may be some true believers here who may come under a false fear which is not from God. But I guess if the shoe fits wear it right?

And again, while there are so many scriptures which speak of being watchful and walking in holy fear, there are just as many that speak of rejoicing in the Lord and praising him for His salvation in our lives.

Regarding true believers 1John4:17-19 says, "17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us."

As I have studied a little bit of church history I have noticed an interesting trend among those whom God has used mightily. Most if not all have seemed to have this deep, abiding, full assurance of their salvation as a powerful anchor and motivation for what they have done in the cause of the kingdom of God.

What I would probably disagree with jimp on here is regarding the need to warn the unsaved of God's spiritual and eternal judgment. God's Word seems crystal clear that there is an important place for those types of warnings to blatant, non-churched sinners as well as to deceived church-going hypocrites.

B

brothagary Oct 31, 2012

also oraco in reality these warnings alpy to gods elect whom he may be drawing by his spirit towards the new birth ,,,gods rod

blessings

J

jimp Oct 31, 2012

hi, i warn the sinner of the wrath to come;eternal damnation being the most important problem.if you are dead to self and alive inChrist, what is judgement going to do for you?make do works so you can be under judgement.law is the leven that takes away grace.i choose to live resting in Gods grace.jimp

O

Oracio Oct 31, 2012

amen brothagary, agreed.

jimp, my apologies if I have misunderstood you on that issue.

J

jimp Oct 31, 2012

hi,one more thing before i stop on this subject...is Jesus the redeemer of your soul or not? is your security in what He has done or in your ability to live up to some standard?did He not promise that He was able to keep that which was comitted...?are you then saying that your salvation rests in your hands or His?who makes intercession for you daily before the Father?who is your faith in?what is your faith in?mine is in Jesus plus nothing.if i sin i confess it for He is my advocate. we live under a covenant. that is something our culture does not understand at all.Jesus cut the covenant for God and man.when the Father looks at us He sees Jesus,because of the covenant.study covenant instead of judgement and your life will be better and full of joy unspeakable and full of glory.jimp

O

Oracio Oct 31, 2012

another thought came to mind on this subject. There is clearly a place for true believers to work out their salvation with fear and trembling-Philippians 2:12.

I have heard it explained that God uses certain warnings to "keep" His saints on the straight and narrow. In other words, one of the means by which God preserves His elect is through warning them of the possibility of apostasy. And I can see how effective that is as I have seen how it has kept me in check sometimes to consider such a thought. I definitely don't want to be found a hypocrite on Judgment Day. At the same time I have full assurance based upon the blood of Christ shed on Calvary for my sins.

So bottom line for me is that scripture teaches a balance in such matters of faith and conduct. God is sovereign and all-wise and knows what need to hear and understand about Him, ourselves, and the world around us.

S

sermonindex Nov 1, 2012

Jimp - just to say, I always love your contributions here. They are like little nuggets of grace.

S

stevet83 Nov 1, 2012

Oracio,
That is an Interesting thought...
But a christian life lived apart from apostasy is a result of true Life in the Christian. A warning of "thou shalt not" to a Christian is insufficient to keep the Christian from doing it. I'm not supposed to lie but I find myself at times doing it. One who professes faith but does not posses it will inevitably "fall away"

I guess it comes to, can a Christian simply choose to not be one?

Your thoughts?

O

Oracio Nov 1, 2012

stevet83, I guess you could say I've been on both sides of the eternal security issue throughout my Christian walk. Since there seem to be good scriptures for both views I'm still not completely sure about it, though I tend to lean more heavily toward the perseverance of the saints.

I would agree that one who professes faith but does not posses it will inevitably "fall away", but I would also add, unless they are awakened and quickened to true conversion by the Holy Ghost.

S

stevet83 Nov 1, 2012

Oricio,
Sometimes it's hard to believe God did it all...does our lack of faith nullify His faithfulness?

B

brothagary Nov 1, 2012

yea i agree with your seconed last statment oracio

warnings of apostacy have realy helped me fear god and judment ,have led me to repentance ,noing that the goodness of god leds to repentence ,,god is showing us mercy by convicting our concences and give us much more then ample time to repent of known sin in our life even as believers ,,,i smoked pot for many years after being born again ,i was set free from hard drugs like meth,,but i would not let my marawana go ,,,,, the conviction got so strong and the idea that maby im not realy a christan if i continue in this type of rebelion ,was sickning ,till now iv also repented from that and he truly has set me free

but like you said a balance is needed ,,,

i tuly believe with all my heart that the other thing that has caused me to indure is eturnal security of the elect ,,the inevadable persaverence of the saints ,,through the reality of gods predestanation

this has played a huge part in my life ,,even tho iv only believed it for the last 3 years or so

iv been saved for about 12 years

i think only those who bare the fruits of a deepening repentance can claim that they have truly been saved

so many are called by gods spirit ,in the contex of the father drawing them to christ
but few are chosen in the contex of baring much good fruit that remains

many have tasted of the lord ,
but few have consumed the bread of life

many have met god

but few know ,and have a real relationship ,with him

many have walk on the boundary wall of repentance faith and sangtification ,,,but only few have crossed of into the property of the kingdom

untill we cross ,we should not presume we are saved

the flesh has a talent to mimic spirtual things an experances and decieve many people

and demons that run with the prince and the power of the air are keen to operate with the fleshly fallen adamic nature ,,giving sensations of joy and a scence of the presence of a higher power ,,it is there job to decieve the multiudes of religious persons in christiondom
and all other religones ,,,

people must be aware of the deception

regardless of those that say ,,,ohhhh dont worry about all that we dont need to think about all the nasty stuff ,neither gods wrath nor judgments in this age

it all about grace ,grace ,grace ,,and mercy and love and forgivness

there two sides to gods nature
and two sides to that powers that be in this world

and we should take head lest we fall

if we are gods elect he will make us stand again

but that will also be becasue we took head to the warnings

and did not just wallow face down in a figment of a loving god ,in our own imagenation

his rod
and his staff ,comferts me ,,,amen

blessings brothers and sisters

S

stevet83 Nov 1, 2012

Amen brothagary! Heroin was my thing. Make the tree good and the fruit will be good. He appoints to bear fruit and that fruit will remain. Oh that Paul Washer sermon was on point! He saves to the uttermost! Thanks Lord!

B

brothagary Nov 1, 2012

amen steve i praise god to hear that ,, he is mighty to save ,,even us brother ,,and he can sangtfie to the end ,,we can trust those things ,and rest in his faithfulness

blessings