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Again, do we call tbem brethren?

S
sermonindex

At this point I feel constrained to revisit this question. Many know from.my posts where I stand in the issue if tbe gospel and thr cults. I gave argued quite strongly, in this forum, that Mormonism is a Satanic quote. And those inside that cult are in demonic bondage.

Yet some, maybe in this forum, are saying that Mormons should not be judge so harshly. They hold to Biblical values, use tbe King James Bible. Even the Billy Graham association has removed Mormonism from their cult list. Their young adults go on missions, clean cut. Certainly don't drink, smoke, or chew.

We know Mormons are fiercely loyal to tbe republic. Holding to tbe Constitution. Probably good Republicans. After all us not Glen Beck a solid God fearing man.

Ali right forum. I ask you. Let us say I am wrong. Do we regard tbe Mormons as our brother's and sisters. But maybe worshipping the same God. Maybe we are harsh to call then s cult. Maybe they are saved.

What are your thoughts?

Bearnaster.

P
proudpapa

no, but do we call them neighbour ??

S
sermonindex

No absolutely not. If we do then we are become complicit in their unbelief. Being a member of the Republican Party is no more beneficial or true than being a member of a Cricket Club that happens to hold to family values and manages to promote decency by and on behalf of its members.


Mormonism is a religious spirit.


When push comes to shove a Mormon missionary will avoid at almost all cost telling you what it is that they truly believe. If you ask them who is Christ they are quiet capable of saying “Christ is Lord”. They will do this simply because from past experience of having been challenged as to their authenticity, they have learned that those who do truly believe in the Risen Lord, are foolish enough to take the words as proof of something more substantive than hot air.

“No man can say that Christ is Lord, except by the Spirit”.


This verse speaks of reality not a mere fact of words. In short only one who has been born again can declare in truth that Christ is Lord because only the Spirit of Truth is able to reveal it. It is not a form of words, but a living declaration borne out of revelation of God, the conviction of sin and faith in The Risen Lord.

S
sermonindex

Again: No.

S
sermonindex

dear brother,

One who does not believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior, and believe He is the only Son of God and the only Mediator between God and man who died for their sins is not born again and cannot be our brother or sister in Christ.

As one who came out of Mormonism I have to tell you, if you become born again while in Mormonism, then you come out of it because Mormonism is a false religion with a false prophet. Pretty clear.

All that said, I agree with some above, they are our neighbors, they are the lost whom we must share the truth of the gospel in love.
Sister Leslie

Sister Leslie

C
Christinyou

What is the Incorruptable Seed? The same Seed that was put in Mary to bring forth the Savior of the World, Jesus Christ. Any birthing takes an act of The Father of the one being birthed. This Living Word, that is the incorruptable Seed that God our Father has birthed in us. Paul states it in all his epistles, "my gospel", as the statement "IN CHRIST", over 150 times in verious ways.

Just a few; Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ro 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
2Co 13:3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

This is still a mystery to Mormans and sadly to a great percentage of the Body of Christ the Church. These who must work themselves into the Kingdom by their own works are a cult. "come out from among them".

A new birthed one, a new creature, with the mind of Christ, being the direct offspring of God our Father by Christ Jesus who lives in us:

Phillip

S
savannah

"Re: Again, do we call tbem brethren?"
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

"Even the Billy Graham association has removed Mormonism from their cult list."
Billy Graham and his association are absolutely wrong about this,as well as a number of other things.

"Do we regard tbe Mormons as our brother's and sisters."
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

"But maybe worshipping the same God."
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

"Maybe we are harsh to call then s cult."
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

"Maybe they are saved."
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

"What are your thoughts?"
See above and what follows.


What Do Mormons Believe: The Primary Differences Between Mormonism & Christianity (from a cults website)

What Do Mormons Believe: Divine Authority

The Mormon church uses two sources as its primary authorities: the Book of Mormon and the Bible. The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price are also viewed as divinely authoritative.

In contrast, the Christian church (also called biblical Christianity) uses the Holy Bible alone as its authority from God (2 Timothy 3:16). Joseph Smith is not recognized as a prophet.

What Do Mormons Believe: The Nature of God

The Mormon church sees God as the Supreme Being of the universe. However, He gradually acquired that position over a long period of time by living a perfect and righteous life. God the Father has a body (flesh and bones). 1

In contrast, the biblical Christianity proclaims God as eternally and infinitely supreme (Isaiah 44:6; Psalm 90:2). He is the same today as always (James 1:17). He is a spirit Being (John 4:24).

What Do Mormons Believe: The Nature of Man

The Mormon church teaches that humans exist as spirit beings before their birth.2 At physical birth, bodies are given to these spirits. They are also given an opportunity for free-will choice. The physical world represents a period of probation. The status of a person in the afterlife is determined by the way that person lived his/her life on Earth. If the person lived by a satisfactory standard, (including the fulfillment of Mormon temple obligations) that person has the potential to become a god in the after-life.3 The person can also produce "spirit children" to populate a world of his own (like God did with the earth).4

In contrast, the Christian church holds that humans do not exist as spirits prior to being born into the world. Humans cannot attain godhood or populate other worlds with "spirit children."

What Do Mormons Believe: The Nature of Jesus Christ

The Mormon church views Jesus and Satan as spirit brothers and sons of God.5 God put forth His plan of salvation for the world, and Satan proposed his own plan. Jesus accepted the Father's plan and offered to implement it as the Savior.6 The Father chose Jesus, and the spirit of Jesus was given a body through the virgin Mary.7 He was crucified on a Roman cross, and rose from the dead three days later to establish His deity. The character and life of Jesus is attainable by anyone who performs at such a righteous level.

In contrast, biblical Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ has existed eternally as the Son of God, the second "person" of the Trinity (Colossians 1:15-18; John 1:1, 3). Jesus took on human flesh about 2000 years ago and was born into the world through the virgin Mary (Luke 2). He was crucified on a Roman cross for our sins (Romans 5:8), and rose from the dead three days later to establish His deity (Mark 16; 1 Corinthians 15:13-17).

What Do Mormons Believe: How do we Achieve Salvation

The Mormon church holds that Jesus Christ overcame physical death and guaranteed physical resurrection to all mankind. However, spiritual death can only be avoided through personal obedience of God's commandments.8 Forgiveness of sins requires faith, repentance and baptism by an approved Mormon priest. The practice of baptism for the dead is an extension of this belief, in which Mormons are baptized in proxy for those who have died without proper baptism.9

In contrast, the Christian church teaches that we are unable to live a life righteous enough to meet God's perfectly holy standard (Romans 3:23; 6:23). Therefore, we establish a relationship with God by faith in the work of Christ on the cross, not by our own works (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5). Baptism and good deeds are acts of obedience to God, but not the means for gaining eternal salvation.

What Do Mormons Believe: Life After Death

The Mormon church maintains that although there is temporary punishment for those that are most wicked, Jesus Christ will establish a new kingdom that will consist of three levels: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom.10

In contrast, biblical Christianity holds that there are only two possible fates after death, heaven or hell. These locations are final, both physically and spiritually (Matthew 25:46).

1 Doctrine and Covenants 130:22, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p 3., Articles of Faith, p 38.
2 Journal of Discourse, vol 4, p 218.
3 Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p 590.
4 Gospel Principles, 1992ed., p 243.
5 Mormon Doctrine, p 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p 15.
6 Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through The Ages, 1945, p. 15; Gospel Principles, 1992ed., pp 17-18; Mormon Doctrine, p 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p 8.
7 Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50; Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith (who later became 10th Prophet), Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, 1976, p 18.
8 Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p 134.
9 Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, 1976, pp 356-357; Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p 601.
10 Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp 784, 778, 351.

S
sermonindex

One who does not believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior, and believe He is the only Son of God and the only Mediator between God and man who died for their sins is not born again and cannot be our brother or sister in Christ.

As one who came out of Mormonism I have to tell you, if you become born again while in Mormonism, then you come out of it because Mormonism is a false religion with a false prophet. Pretty clear.

Perfectly stated.

P
proudpapa

Again, do we call tbem brethren?

I agree no,

but do we call them neighbour ??

P
proudpapa

as EverestoSama in a past thread compared mormons to the Samaritans, Lets look at Luke 10 with that same perspective

S
sermonindex

as EverestoSama in a past thread compared mormons to the Samaritans, Lets look at Luke 10 with that same perspective. proudpapa


Obviously I can't say what EverestoSama intended by his comment as I have not read them, but there is no correlation spiritually between the Mormons and Samaria. The Samaritans biblically are those who live on a hill. The hill was purchased from a man called Shemer hence the name Samaria. It became the new capital of Israel after the division of the kingdom of Israel, into Israel and Judah. The women at the well in Samaria was expecting or at least thinking about the coming Christ and so on. My point is this. If you give so much as a thread of credibility to Mormonism you will have given the whole ground to it. Like Satan who is behind it, it will come as an angel of light and then devour your understanding mind. One word which in their sight sounds like "brother" will be sufficient to take away any need for Christ in their understanding. Unlike Samaria who was Israel according to the flesh though despised and cut of from the temple worship, they were nevertheless Israel according to the flesh. Mormonism is not Israel, it is not the Church and it never has been.

There is no truth whatsoever in Mormonism. It is completely devoid of truth. The conduct of individual Mormons is of no consequence either. In fact it amounts to a deception of incomprehensible proportions that so many souls could be so active in deceiving so many that they speak well of them.

For those who say we should pray for them is rather stating the obvious. They also need resisting in prayer and resisting again and again. The warning about this false religion have been going out strong and clear for nearly 50 years. Yet still America's liberties blind men's eyes to the danger of this wicked cult. Sitting back and taking no action is no longer an option. Today there are Mormon's leading prayer revival meeting, with true saints attending and going along. Such blindness and deafness and lack of discernment is truly fearful. Now it is to grow and flourish and if those who know the truth don't learn to resist this spirit in prayer as well as contend with the men and women with tears it will eventually consume many millions more in its train down into hell.

Edit by a man "from a man" called Shemer.

T
Trekker

10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject ; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted , and sinneth , being condemned of himself.

TITUS 3: 10-11

P
proudpapa

I am not saying give them anykind of credibility, only the love and respect as the Bible calls us to have for fellow humans.

S
sermonindex


The church itself is made up of all unbelievers and cults throughout time. Mormonism is just one in a long line of lying spirits, and many, many of them have came out, and believed in Christ Jesus alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08RXs6_HJJc


To get an idea of how perverted and powerfully complex that this demon is, and what it teaches men to believe, watch this. Not exactly Biblical......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk

S
sermonindex

Based in tbe posts I am reading here. It seems that the Mormons are not to be acknowledged as our brothers and sisters? Am I correct in assuming that Mormonism is just as false a religion as Islam? That both Mormons and Moslens need to believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and need him alone for salvation. I am speakng of Jesus as revealed in the New Testament?

Forum I want to be 100% clear on this. If I speak of Mormons as being nonbelievers in Christ who need to believe in tbe person and work of Jesus Christ. Am I correct?

Again the Billy Graham Association has removed Mormonism from its list of cults. Thus implying Mormonism is credible. St least my understanding. There were those, en in this forum, who said we needed to vote for a candidate who cane out of Mormonism . Because this candidate stood for Biblical values. Thus implying Mormonism has some degree of Biblical truth.

I am asking for honesty in this forum. If we are to acknowledge the Mormons as brethren, say so. If not then please clarify once and for all this is a false cult who do not hold to the gospel of Christ.

Bearmadter.

Y
Yeshuasboy

Mormons can't be our brothers and sisters if they are not born again of the Spirit.
And, yes, they are our neighbors, and we are commanded to "love our neighbors as ourselves", and this too must be done in the Spirit, or we will fail God.
We must be led by the Spirit in all things, because we "see in part" here on Earth, most of the time, unless the Lord grant us revelation into some mystery. Example: A mormon can be awakened by the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Spirit can be striving with a Mormon, as well.
The Lord wishes all men to be saved. That doesn't mean we compromise the Gospel of our Lord Christ Jesus; but, that does mean, that we do all things in love, and again, through the Spirit. Are weapons are not carnal, but Spiritual, and mighty to the pulling down of strongholds.

R
rbanks

Article Calling Mormonism a 'Cult' Removed From Billy Graham Website
Tue, Oct. 16, 2012 Posted: 04:51 PM EDT

An article describing Mormonism as a "cult" was removed from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association's (BGEA) website following Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney's visit with Graham last week.

The article described The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly referred to as Mormonism, as a group that "teaches doctrines or beliefs that deviate from the biblical message of the Christian faith." Other groups identified as cults in the article include Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, the Unification Church, Scientologists and Spiritists.

The article was removed sometime after Romney, a Mormon, visited Graham at his Montreat, N.C., home last week. Ken Barun, chief of staff for BGEA, said in an emailed statement on Tuesday that the organization removed the article in order to avoid a debate, though he did not specify whether or not the candidate's visit had anything to do with the timing of its removal.

"Our primary focus at the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association has always been promoting the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We removed the information from the website because we do not wish to participate in a theological debate about something that has become politicized during this campaign," said Barun.

Following his meeting with Romney, the 93-year-old Graham said he was honored to have met the candidate, with whom he had the opportunity to pray.

"What impresses me even more than Gov. Romney's successful career are his values and strong moral convictions," said Graham.

He later added, "I will turn 94 the day after the upcoming election, and I believe America is at a crossroads. I hope millions of Americans will join me in praying for our nation and to vote for candidates who will support the biblical definition of marriage, protect the sanctity of life and defend our religious freedoms."

During his meeting with Romney, Graham said he would do "all I can" to help the Republican candidate, The Asheville Citizen-Times reports.

Issues surrounding Mormonism – and whether or not it should be defined as a Christian belief system – have stirred up strong emotions and some debate in Christian circles this election season. Some have even questioned whether or not it is acceptable for Christians to vote for a Mormon at all.

Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son and the president and CEO of the BGEA, told The Christian Broadcasting Network in December 2011 that Romney's Mormon faith "doesn't bother me at all." The most important thing, he said, is for Americans to select the person who is most qualified to be president.

"You can have the nicest guy and he can be a Christian and just wonderful but have absolutely no clue as to how to run a country, you don't want that … Mitt Romney is a very capable fellow," he said.

He was also asked in an interview with MSNBC in February if he considers Romney a Christian.

"Most Christians would not recognize Mormonism as part of the Christian faith ... Now, of course they believe in Jesus Christ, but they have a lot of other things that they believe in too that we don't accept theologically," he said.

Jeff Schapiro
Copyright © Christianpost.com. All rights reserved.

R
rbanks

Now whether Billy Graham association did right should ultimately be judged by God and not us. I do think though that in their attempt to not cause divisiveness actually did cause some divisiveness among Christians.

Now that they have explained their reason of doing what they did and whether we agree with it or not we should as Christians forgive them if it has offended us. I will in the love of Christ move on from this and not let what they did cause me to be divisive and continually try to stir up strife with the Billy Graham association and other Christians.

Blessings from brother rbanks!

G
Goldminer

It seems to me this is spoken very clearly in Galatians.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

If they did believe the KJV bible they would forsake the other gospel.

Still we are to love them and pray for them to be saved. I do not believe they hold correct views of Jesus and many other important doctrines.

M
MaryJane

orum I want to be 100% clear on this. If I speak of Mormons as being nonbelievers in Christ who need to believe in tbe person and work of Jesus Christ. Am I correct?

Again the Billy Graham Association has removed Mormonism from its list of cults. Thus implying Mormonism is credible. St least my understanding. There were those, en in this forum, who said we needed to vote for a candidate who cane out of Mormonism . Because this candidate stood for Biblical values. Thus implying Mormonism has some degree of Biblical truth.

I am asking for honesty in this forum. If we are to acknowledge the Mormons as brethren, say so. If not then please clarify once and for all this is a false cult who do not hold to the gospel of Christ.

Bearmadter.

_____________________________


Bear, why would you go to men for their opinions when the BIBLE speaks clearly about this matter. I ask you honestly didn't you really already have your answer on this matter weeks ago? Mormons, Catholics, Muslims, Buddhist, Jehovah Witness are all false religions and none are following BIBLICAL JESUS. Knowing this to be true what should our response be toward those lost inside these dead man made religions be...to pray for them, to love them, and to share JESUS with them, right? How often do we stop and pray, really serious seek GOD for those who are lost? I know you have prayed for those lost souls in the Muslim religion maybe consider adding those millions lost in the Mormon religion as well.

Just something to think about

God bless
mj

S
sermonindex

Sister you are correct in that I do call out for tbe Moslems to ve saved. That naturally comes up when we are paying for persecuted nations on our persrcution watch prayer calls. And yes, I do need to call out to God for Mormon salvations as well as for the lost in general.

But the way some were going on about voting Biblical values. And that coming from respected evangelical leaders. I had to ask are we ackniwkedging what I understand to be a Satanic cult, to be brethren in Christ.

So I am getting two different messengers from tbe forum. One is Mormonism is a cult. Two is anyone coming out of Mormonism can hold to Biblical values. Sounds line an oxymoron. Anyone care to clarify?

Bearmaster.

S
sermonindex

How would Paul deal with a Mormon?

Would he rail at them for believing in a false god?

Or would he be more stealth at his approach?

We go about it the wrong way. We come in with guns a blazing shooting everyone in our path.

The way Paul would have approached Mormons is by adding to whatever faith they already have. They believe in God, great, a good starting point. They believe in Jesus Christ, great, another good starting point. By adding to what they already have, and if they can grasp what is being spoken of, in time they will abandon the false. But if we start tearing their faith down, we are going to lose them. The walls instantly go up and they feel justified that they are being persecuted.

Some would think that this approach is compromising. I can understand why. If our speech isn't filled with the wrath of God we think that we are being soft. Not so. We can be wise as serpents and at the very same time be harmless as doves. And Paul took this approach.

The people that we are to be hard with is the people of God. The people of God that should no better but choose ungodly ways of doing things. Jesus came unto His own and His own received Him not. They knew who He was and yet they chose their wicked ways and Jesus came down hard on that bunch. Mormons are not children of God, they are not born again, how can we upbraid them when they are not even in the boat yet?

We have to do things Gods way and Gods way is not always thunder and lightening, sometimes it's the gentle rain, or the warm south wind.

The judgments that we see coming upon the world is not so much to wake the world up, but to wake us up. We are sleeping. Once we are awake, this world will know that there is a God in heaven and He lives and rules in the hearts of men down here on earth.

P
proudpapa

Hi Approved good post, they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

S
sermonindex

Then brothers, if this type of reasoning is to be given to the Mormons. Then you would have to include tbe Roman Catholic Church. They are a lot closer to tbe Jesus of tbe New Testament then the Mormons are.

If this type of rezoning is implied to cults, one goes down a slippery slope and the truth if the gospel is lost.

Bearmaster.

P
proudpapa

D.L. Moody acctually preached in the Mormon tabernacle, I wonder what his sermon was? I am not bringing this up for any reason other than this subject caused me to remember reading that he had. and I thought that it seemed odd

P
proudpapa

Again, do we call tbem neighbour ?? Or should we do as Orthodox religion has historicaly always done to those whom are considered heratick and persecute them ??


S
sermonindex

I imagine Moody would have preached a gospel message. That all he knew. I think David Jerimiah preached st the Mormon Tabernachle a few months ago. As I understand it h received a standing ovation.

Bearmaster.

P
proudpapa

Hi bear
I had not heard of David Jerimiah preaching there but I know Ravi Zacharias Did a few years back

S
sermonindex

Sorry Papa. It was Ravi and not David who preached there. Got my preachers confused. Don't think Paul Washer will be invited to tbe Mormon Tabernacle, do you?

Bearmaster.

P
proudpapa

If he was, and he went, there would be definately be no applauding

W
wombat1

Hi Approved, that approach of acceptance of love and warmth is admirable. I would like to ask you to consider a slightly different mindset on this.

Before i do may I say that God speaking in a still small voice is a great thing to promote.

Addressing poor or particularly heretical teaching however does not need to be done with a sledge hammer.

however the first real issue is if a person is a mormon then first they need to be saved. This then means bringing them into faith. Whilst they may have had teaching I do not believe that we are stripping away their faith by bringing correction or in this sense redirection as opposed to punishment because this is not what i mean.

If the reteaching is done with the obvious love of a brother or sister the medicine is easy to take. I would see that false teaching needs to be addressed at the same time as bringing light on the true meaning of the word of God and Sola Scriptora - scripture alone.

We must remember that these are the doctrines of demons we may not be wise to let them wait for the person to see the error of their ways.

i am not saying we should jump on them or bible bash them, but they will need special care as one coming out of a cult. I have seen the damage to hundreds of people coming out of a cult and the need to be "restored".

My point is that wisdom is not just avoiding the obvious error like pour coals on peoples heads but it can also see the extra need of care and reteaching.

In keeping with the spirit of Approved's comment. It is my belief that where the scripture talks about i will have a people who are not my people etc, this relates to as I understand at the moment, to people who respond to the call of God "to come out of her my people". i think Joel is an example if not prophetic of this because the Holy Spirit falls on all people and so we will, i believe see anyone who has a heart after God repsond to him.

In this crowd will be Mormons JW's Jews, Muslims etc. yes they are not saved now however if we consider the call to the wedding guests it would appear that we not them are less likely to respond to that particular call.

I agree that we are the ones that are asleep, however if David Wilkersons sermons and Denny Kenasten and Poonan are right then we are at the end and the call to respond has allready started so we need to understand how to respond to these as they enter the family. I am not so confident of the ability of the church to withstand so radical a change but that is the message of the wedding guests anyway.

I have tried to give an example of being loving and direct in bringing a minor correction to the method of how we interact with Mormons or those coming out of a cult or another religion as opposed to adding and waiting.

Any response or suggested alteration from Approved or anyone else is invited as I still see through a glass dimly

Regards Oskar

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