The new Bible - Refuel Magazine

Sounds like another one of the World's prize winners. :-P That advice about the party "It's illegal for now" made my jaw literally drop open. First the praise alcohol's 'benefits' "it might calm your nerves and make you forget your problems", then toss a bone at parents like us by saying it's illegal so you shouldn't do it...Unbelievable. How would they respond to the issue of fornication? "Oh man, sex feels GREAT!! and it'll raise your esteem in the eyes of some of your friends...but you could end up pregnant or in other trouble so don't do it for now.[/i]

They have a top ten list of cool things God made. Number one is girls, just edging out jagged mountain peaks and soaring eagles. Nice. Also is a list of reasons to avoid pre-maritail sex. Mentionined were getting preganant and STD's. Never anything about the Holy Spirit. Never anything about obeying the Lord. We seem to be raising a generation of youth that are illiterate about the teaching of the Bible.

Well, All I could say from your post, was: DEAR GOD, HELP US.I lead a Christ Centered Recovery Support Group at my church, and I was shocked to read what that book said."But for now, drinking is illegal" ???!!!!!Then what, after you get older, get smashed???I'm an EX Alcoholic, drug addict, set free by the power of God. That junk all but ruined my life, and many others I might add.It's only by the saving Grace of God, and the Blood of Jesus Christ and the Power of the Holy Spirit and many prayers that I'm here today. (that was a mouthful) :-) That magazine or bible or book or whatever you call it greatly disturbs me. Our youth need a true revival today...they need the Word preached with conviction, they need to see something real for a change.Heavenly Father, please forgive us for our stupidity. Re-kindle the Fire in our hearts, and give us passion for the lost.AMEN

This sounds very similar to the girls magazine/bible that has been out since 2003, it is called Revolve and was discussed previously here on SI in the following thread;Revolve MagazineIt certainly does stir up a sadness and an anger within to see these things, we really need to intecede for this young generation.In Christ,Ron

We have two large "Christian" book stores here. They are both run by National Chains. I'm sure they have the book you mentioned. I just never pay attention to that junk. I think I will look around a little more.I usually frequent another Christian book store that is locally owned and operated by a wonderful Christian lady.I know stuff like this exists, I guess it just kinda hit me wrong. I feel like crying.This is sad.

To defend my generation -This magazine isn't a cry to the younger generation, it's a cry to parents for easy answers. I wouldn't have put my nose in this thing for very long at all without a parent's help. That and there are plenty of teen study bibles out there of various translations, and bibles are still useful on a nightstand.So, uh, bottom lines aren't the only major issue this magazine addresses. The endorsements are scary, but it might be interesting to get the picture of collateral damage attached to this sucker.

at this point I must ask, of all of you who expressed some righteous fury, how many of you have cable or satellite dishes enabled to your TV's?How many of you read Scripture with your children?How many of you pray with your children?How many of you study the Word more hours in a week, than you do parked in front of the TV?How many of you teach children the Word of God in a positive uplifting Christly environment? First, I must answer "ME!" to all of these questions. The Cable we used to get the best reception for Seasame Street. Other than that, our TV is on perhaps 3 hours A WEEKAs for the rest of your post, and the general attitude of "well it gets teens to share the gospel, etc..." I must say that is just a shame for parents of today, because the teens in 1897 DID NOT HAVE some cool imitation Bible yet they shared their faith openly with each other. They did not need a "lamp under bushel" version to hide their shame of God's Word before they'd take it to school. They took the Bible (the KJV in almost 100% of cases) very seriously and thought it was "cool"Why not for teens today?Ummm...parents. I know teens...plenty of 'em in my church, who carry their Bibles to school, "cool" or not. They'll share their faith at the drop of a hat and don't need any fancy dressing up to do it.FIE FOR SHAME ON THE PARENTS, I SAY and again, I say SHAME on the parents and yea, even on the older teens themselves for feeling they need the Word of God watered down before it will be acceptable to their social peers.Yes, it's encouraging some to get out and share, but as I said elswhere on this message board, God gets His glory despite the evil that some men do...that doesn't make it, (this so-called 'bible'), right.

Refuel and Revolve (the girls version) then there is the Book of James by it's self. they have a mag-bible for Young Adults (20-somethings) that is coming out soon. I work around this stuff all day. I've seen every side of it and heard all the different sides of this one.Let me just say this. Look at the thing, I mean go and take a look at it. I work with youth and have for the past 5 years. When you look at it, where are the heavy girls at? The boys with acne? The plain looking girls that where regular clothes, not designer stuff? Cool or not, I think that we as Children of the Most Hight have enough to contend against from the image driven an sex saturated ads and junk that the world rubs in the face of out teens without giving them a Bible full of what one of my teens deems "the beautiful people" You can win them with something like this but what do win them to? I don't have a youth group full of models. They are all beautiful! Fat skinny, acne, awkward builds, lower or higher intellignce, all of them have been beautified with salvation. They want to be differnt not to blend in. Why not carry a Giant Black Bible to school?? Those that are lost make no bones about carrying thier Wicca or Yoga books nor do they have a problem carrying secular trash books. Why shoould we give our kids the impression that a little comprmise is o.k., again we may win one but to what?Sorry if i seem a little animated about this subject, I'm only 26 and have been working with teens since i was 21. they are all good kids but they get so concerned about thier appreance ans what other people think about them at school that they need affirmation through scripture,, thier pastors, and thier leaders. They DO NOT need to be handed an "undercover" Bible that says it IS right to be concerned with what people think of you (please understand I know we are living epislte.)--so carry this "cool" bible full of "beautiful people"--full of articles about "who to date" and "how to be cool". These are in the midst of the scriptures--"lest by any means satan beguile you as he did eve and corrupt your minds from the simplicity or purtiy that is in Jesus-- by any means even something that looks Godly. I've said it once and I'll say it again, we must be a counter culture and alternitive not a subculture subject to the whims of worldly popularity. What ever happened to reading your Bible because you loved Jesus? It didn't take a trip to Kings Island or an Ice cream social to get me saved OR to keep me saved (do stuff with your youth, I'm not railing against those things) the point is this---We'll never win this "no fear shirt wearing, no esacape pants wearing, I know what you did Last summer watching,bungie jumping, fear factor loving, i love being rebelious" generation with a comprimised Gospel that looks so much like them they can;t tell the difference. Nelson can keep thier Gospel According to Cosmo.

I could say alot about this, having children, but all I feel like saying is LORD JESUS PLEASE COME AND SAVE MY CHILDREN FROM THIS WORLD. But in the mean time I will teach my children the Bible and that God is living and watching and that shame is not something you have to have if you keep the Lord God in mind before you do something. To remember that they invited a Holy person in to there hearts and that that guest is not comfortible with the things of this world. :-?

at this point I must ask, of all of you who expressed some righteous fury, how many of you have cable or satellite dishes enabled to your TV's?How many of you read Scripture with your children?How many of you pray with your children?How many of you study the Word more hours in a week, than you do parked in front of the TV?How many of you teach children the Word of God in a positive uplifting Christly environment?I have no TV period, I cut cable off.Christian Music is played around the clock.I have a 20 year old and a 15 year old.They complained at first when the TV went away, but have adjusted fine, (us too) :-) We try to read the Word of God with the younger son. I hardly ever see the 20 yr. old...with girlfriend and job. :-D I guess I just don't see why we have to change the packaging or worse yet, the package, to get the Gospel out.We had a Revival some years ago at our Church.The Evangelist preached "Holy Ghost and Fire" and didn't hold back.This Revival went on for 21 days straight, and the youth were flocking to the place...among adults also.When there is a fire, people come from miles around to see what's going on.People want the truth, they want something REAL.Anyway, you won't find a copy in my house...but that's just my two cents worth.I will, however, give it another look when I return to the bookstore, I'm just curious about what I'll find.

at this point I must ask, of all of you who expressed some righteous fury, how many of you have cable or satellite dishes enabled to your TV's?How many of you read Scripture with your children?How many of you pray with your children?How many of you study the Word more hours in a week, than you do parked in front of the TV?How many of you teach children the Word of God in a positive uplifting Christly environment?I believe I felt some anger with this magazine so I will answer your questions. I can tell you that we have no cable or broadcast TV at my home, what tapes or DVD's my children do watch are closely monitored and only on weekends.I watch no TV myself other than what I may catch of the kids stuff. My family spends time together in the Bible first thing each morning and we pray together daily.Also, I think I will let the words of one of our younger SI members (chosen7stone) speak here. She was 18 years old in '03 when she wrote the following comments on the Revolve magazine.I was completely appalled when I read this for the first time. Disgusted, dismayed, shocked, disappointed, upset…the list can go on. I wasn’t happy, and it’s because I just know that this is going to appeal to some Christian girls who aren’t strong in their faith and it’s going to just put a cap on their growth. They’re not going to get fed at all through this magazine, they’re going to be hindered in their walk, and that’s incredibly angering...Without a doubt, it detracts from the message; it takes the focus off of God, and that should NEVER be done by anyone or anything claiming to be Christian. He deserves the glory, not our physical appearance, celebrities, boyfriends, etc. How DARE they call it Biblical yet draw attention to worldly things that obviously drag us down? Satan's laughing so hard right now, and it's disgusting...There is a difference between rash anger and righteous anger. There is a difference between feeling it and acting upon it. When Jesus fashioned a whip and drove those people out of the temple, He wasn't smiling. In the instance of this magazine, I am angry and upset. Really. Am I going to go and burn down the building where they print these magazines? lol No. But they're blaspheming my God, my Savior, the Love of my life. And I'm angry, and I think I have every right to be.You can read her complete comments and others if you click on the link I offered in my previous post in this thread.In Christ,Ron

(Note: I have edited this post to take alittle of my edge off while leaving the point intact.)Christianity in America has produced it's share of pop culture. Now we come to these "teen" bibles. Perhaps the most compelling point against these bibles is made by inotof. Cool or not, I think that we as Children of the Most Hight have enough to contend against from the image driven an sex saturated ads and junk that the world rubs in the face of out teens without giving them a Bible full of what one of my teens deems "the beautiful people"This is a really good reason for me to not buy this bible for my little girl. However, I do not doubt that the Lord could make use of this product for someone else. For instance, I've used Lord of the Rings to help my 11 year old better understand lessons found in the bible. I've even used SpongeBob Squarepants. (Spongebob isn't just absorbent, or selfish, he is also pourus, or giving. Forgive me Oswald Chambers...)Do I think that Jonathan Edwards or Charles Wesley would like my contemporary life style? The clothing I wear? The music I listen to? I am reminded of a line from the movie My Brother Where Art Thou: "Jr. it's a good thing your mamma died givin' birth to ya, or else she woulda died of shame." :-( MC

In a reply to Neilgin1,Pharisees were not faithful. They did not open their hearts to God, and they decided that the law was more important than intent. Was Aaron faithful when he fashioned the calf?There is a reason Jesus called them out so many times, just as there was a reason they were drawn to test him so many times.To say that all the pharisees were unfaithful and unbelieving is about like saying that all chickens lay white eggs, but there were in the number many who were. Many of them profited from the church to a personal extent, and I see no reason for any follower of the law to pay someone to betray their master. Just as with Jeremiah, those who persecuted Him did not "love God." Lip service is a wonderful thing, but is by no means real.And to slam American evangelicals in such a fashion... well, that perfectly describes the state of the pharisees. God knows we don't all lay white eggs.

Sounds like you had it with all the in fighting, welcome to my world... I went down that path and let me tell you Neil it ain't pretty. Don't get dismayed by all that you hear and see JESUS will finish the GOOD work he has started in all who LOVE him and All who will one day LOVE him but don't know it yet...Now as for your last thread I gotta say the following ;-) the Pharisees were the faithful, they were the "separated" onesThe Pharisees were not faithful at all..Jesus called them sons of Satan and white washed coffins.I know from experience that with all the false prophets of our day that it can be confusing at best, but Please don't start calling the Pharisees the Faithful.but they were so faithful, they couldn’t see MessiahThey were not faithful cuz if they were they would of seen the Messiah.JESUS said that Abraham wanted to see his day so he would of Loved JESUS and Abraham was faithful.Most of the church today expends enormous amounts of heart and mind capital tearing into one another over stuff that will be viewed from a heavenly vantage point as trivialThat may be so, however with so many different doctrines and so many False doctrines there must be voices who call the way of Truth. JESUS warned about false teachers in the last days, also Paul, Peter and John warn us in the Bible about these false teachers. (there are more than that who warn like Jude, James, Isaiah, and Ezekiel to name a few. My point is that at times it gets me really frustrated that there is so much fighting among those who claim to be the Church, however I have come to understand that the church is not a person's theology it's his and her relationship with JESUS... That is the Church.So Please try not to become offended or hurt by the War that we are in, Rest in the knowledge that You Love JESUS and leave the rest to HIM.PS. Some peeps need to be warned or they may die in there sin, and some men and women are chosen to Warn Peeps, like Wilkerson and others.Cuz I care Michael 8-)

(Note: I edited this post to remove a little of the abrasive edge to it while still leaving the point. Sorry about that.)I think I understand where Neilgin is coming from. Regarding the Pharisees, from a human standpoint they were faithful. Or at least faultless.If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.Sometimes I wonder if we are too worried about our own righteousness to be of much good to people. Our vision of holiness is too small. Take this hullabaloo over a teen bible for instance. Have we become holy dandies; never feeling outraged over the social injustice and suffering of others; just teen bibles and rock music? On the other hand, maybe this has nothing to do with what Neilgin was saying and I just wasted everyones time!:-P MC

You know what modern day American evangelicals are?Cannibals.they love to eat each other.I witness it on this forum all the time.Does this apply to said writer as well?Not trying to get your goad, but some backtracking could be revealing brother.

Not me brother ;-) Personally offended, no. Still haven't been able to shake the thoughts behind T. Austin Sparks "Blessedness of the Unoffended"A truly great discourse in my opinion (begining to hate that word)Audio/Text CojoiningJust something grevious... what was behind the whole rant earlier on humilty, besides the stench coming out of my own pores.What I meant was one can see the depths of the fractures in the unity of the Body of Christ.That could have saved me a lot of ink right there.Well said.

do you honestly believe, that the people that put out such translations are doing it for the money?(let me interject, that this magazine Bible would not be a purchase I make for my boy...he has the DK Illustrated Bible, its perfect for a nine year old)Do you honestly believe that it was done for the money? Misgiuded as it might be, these folks probably did it coz they thot they were being REVELANT to todays generation.Neil, I'm trying to understand your argument here, are you implying that good intentions are all that is required? As long as we believe we're being relevant than everything is OK?I'm glad you "met" all my questions, thats good.So you can be angry at this magazine/Bible.Again, forgive this simple man but I'm a bit confused by your reasoning, if you're implying that meeting your questions has nothing to do with justifying righteous indignation then why did you ask them in the first place? (by the way, I don't think meeting those questions justifies me or anyone else, to be angry about anything)I seem to remember how angry the Pharisee's were at Jesus healing on the Sabbath, or Jesus dining and interfacing with the fouliest fonkiest sinners of his day. We have this assumption, or should I say presuppostion that the Pharisee's were just these evil horrible guys.....no, these were the "faithful" of the day, they loved God, with all their heart mind and soul, they would get angry and upset when people would blaspheme their God....just like your girl.This is not a good analogy. The Pharisees were hypocrites, they thought they had a head problem (law) with Jesus but the way in which Jesus dealt with them proved they really had a heart problem, they did not love God with all their heart, mind, and soul.You know what modern day American evangelicals are?Cannibals.they love to eat each other.I witness it on this forum all the time.This seems a bit self-refuting to me, kind of like saying to someone, "you shouldn't force your morals on me" and when they ask you why you proceed to lay your own morality on them.In Christ,Ron

Regarding the Pharisees:It was never the letter of the law, but the intent that mattered. God really did put the first two commandments first for a reason, and the Mosaic law had a way to become clean again as a matter of course.The pharisees weren't even faithful in a human standard because they put the law above the Lawgiver - doesn't that contradict the first point?

PTymama3,You are of course correct. I certainly agree with you and appreciate your patience and reasoning on this point. I think what we are looking for is a way to distinguish the life of the Spirit from outward religous zeal. In fact Neilgin may be expressing the same conclusion that you have expressed, except from another vantage point. Perhaps his question is this: Are we putting the "gods" of our conservative churchianity ahead of God's desire to reach those kids who may not be attracted to a normal bible? It's not an easy question for me to answer.Blessings!MC

I think it is safe to say, that in the end we can all agree to this: our God is quite a bit more capable and calculating than our adversary and ourselves.Although I don't agree that presentation makes much of a difference, because in the recesses of my mind I'm stressed to believe that one searching is going to be drawn by motive and life before appearance, I can certainly appreciate that God will use this book in His own way for His own purposes.I'm not saying that the Church should advocate this publishing by any means, and may even fight it with legitimate concern. But the stressing of both points primarily made in this thread (expressed above) don't mutually exclude each other.And Krispy: It is unfortunate to say that many Christian businessmen do not apply their ideals to a business setting, but by the same respect, Jesus cast his lot in with tax collecters and criminals. By that I take it to mean that He paid attention to them and listened to their arguments as if they were legitimate, no matter what their content. And he, too, had to buy bread to eat (well, his disciples anyway) every morning that provided money that would work its way into the pharisee's pockets because the law was still the law.All this to say that yes, while I agree that there is a lot of room for improvement amongst scruples and legitimacy in American business, there are resources out there for us to use because of it. And I don't believe that God would have us ignore that point. If reading the KJV is based primarily on the fact that an American corporation doesn't hold a patent on it and isn't making a buck then please consider this: every press ever made has to make money to be successful. I don't care what bible you buy, somebody is making a buck. KJV's cost just as much in almost every place I've ever looked because someone is publishing them, too.If we Christians are to ostracise ourself from society based on the fact that it doesn't operate by our standards, then where does Paul get off saying we are supposed to be "in the world, but not of the world?" In my view, God sets us apart, and us trying to do so only takes that control away from His perfect handling. This wasn't meant to be rhetoric, and I'm open to your response.I don't believe that just because a legitimate Godly resource is not published by the office of a perfect organization does not mean that it cannot be used as what it is within the Church. Somebody, and for the most part people of the Body, have spent a great deal of time and resources (probably years of personal experience) gathering information and insight for many of these study bibles. I do not doubt that they have something valuable to offer to many people from a thousand backgrounds, conservative Christian whole families notwithstanding. However, they do have more potency with families like mine, where the Word is a tool that can bring as much retribution and constraint for what I believe in this setting. I am forced to find other times and methods to gather information and for release.I know many young women that have (in Christian homes) gotten magazines like seventeen, teen, etc. How can a bible that helps relate God to their world be bad? Is it really a moneymaker, or did someone design it specifically so that they (some in very weak walks at the time) could get legitimate information from the bible in a comfortable setting because they just don't know how to find a better source?And the question that should be here: at what level of our spiritual growth will God request us to change? Methinks thats His job, but is a question that needs to be brought up. Everybody here has has some valid arguement, but at which end do they apply? Where did someone, somewhere make a mistake? Why do I not have the background of a conservative Christian when I am one? Why should I believe in miracles? These are all understood dillemas in most circles in the Church, yet for some odd reason we're missing them at the moment right here. They have to do with time and progressive growth, something I feel a strong, strong need to hammer right now.Please, sir, don't condemn something just because your current situation places you beyond its legitimate impact.And Compton, thank you very much for your reply.

PTywama3,You raise some good questions...hammer away!Krispy, one day I hope they come up with a bible for someone like me...The Millionaire Male Super-Models' Bible. :-P MC

Great post, PTywama3.

Great post, PTywama3!Even just going by the excerpts in the first post, I think some of the supposedly errors of this Bible-magazine were quite exaggerated:1. Excerpt on AlcoholI do not think going to a party is necessarily a sin, nor am I aware of a commandment, "Thou shalt not party." Moreover, the emphasis of the cited passage seems to be that Christians should not get drunk, which to me is a correct advice.2. Reference to "Big Guy upstairs"In all fairness, the quote says, "it’s a popular idea that all religious people run to the same Big Guy upstairs." The passage is referring to a popular idea, not actually encouraging the reader to use the phrase.In fact, the following sentence which refers to the Christian God says, "the God of the Bible". It did not say "the Big Guy upstairs mentioned in the Bible!"3. Excerpt on LitteringI do not see any problem with this excerpt at all -- stewardship of the earth is the commission that God gave to Adam and Eve in Genesis 1, and many would argue that this includes taking care of the environment. Some would argue that social issues such as environmental problems and poverty are just as important as the issue of homosexuality. 4. Excerpt on Radical FaithNeither do I see any problem with this passage. In fact, it describes a fact -- it does not take long for one to realize that "Bible-thumpers, Scripture-screamers, unforgivers, grace-stealers" are not uncommon in the ranks of believers.

Excellent points PTywama3 & Agent001! I guess we can all agree that God will use what He sees fit to use. I can only pray that we will be found in the center of His will.I have done much reflection on this thread and others of late and have come to the conclusion that as much as I would like to think I have lots of discernment in spiritual matters, I am often just tossed about like a wave in a sea of presuppositions and assumptions. O Lord, give us eyes to truly see!In Christ,Ron

“If we Christians are to ostracize our self from society based on the fact that it doesn't operate by our standards, then where does Paul get off saying we are supposed to be "in the world, but not of the world?" In my view, God sets us apart, and us trying to do so only takes that control away from His perfect handling. This wasn't meant to be rhetoric, and I'm open to your response.”I would like to reply to this, but not in a biting argumentative way, so please do not take it as a personal attack on you by any means. I posted my opinion and do not feel the need to rant again, however I work around this and other Christian trends and this is by far a disturbing one. I believe that when Paul was emphasizing that we be “in and not of” that we are in the world. We are here and we live our whole lives awaiting the return of our great King or our own personal rapture. However just because we are in it does not mean we are of it, sounds redundant but let me make my point. We have to operate under the judicial system, we must abide by its rules and drive the speed limit etc. However where do we draw the line? When do we say to popular trend and culture that you can come only this far!? We not supposed to be influenced by our feelings, or least that is what I have been taught, how much more so should we shun the influence of culture? I’m not suggesting that we go stick our head in the sand and forget about this world, I agree Jesus was called the friend of sinners, he engaged the culture, not embraced it. The problem is that we embrace the culture. We use the guise of “let’s get them in with. . . .” Food, games, gags, gimmicks, anything that we can think of, what ever happened to praying them in? We preach whole confernces about “Jehovah Genie” to win the lost and draw folks but to what? When we ‘search for the old paths and walk therein’?My generation (I’m 26 anyone younger?) however continues to be influenced by pop trends and the world. This Mag-Bible is just another example of the laziness in the church. We don’t want to take the time to mold our teens to the image commanded by the Word, so we mold the word to fit the image that our teens will find appealing. Sorry if this next part sounds ugly, put the cross is not convenient, it is death to our flesh and though resurrection awaits, we must first embrace the timbers of the cross. We turn the “image of an incorruptible God into corruptible man.” by slowing letting the culture of the day influence the church. This is evident by many of the churches around. Am I an alarmist that is insisting that this Mag-Bible is the devil and cannot be of any merit whatsoever, no, Moody said even the devil is God’s devil, am I saying that the church is going to the dogs, no there will always be a remanant of passionate people who fear and love God. I’m just saying that this is another small step toward the world, one more push of the world in the church one more sign that culture is invading the body instead of the other way around. Beware the leaven of the Pharisees and the Saducees the Herodians and of Ceaser. . .the culture of the day, don’t let it bend you–you bend it, hence we become a counter culture that engages but does not embrace the world. Hence we become in not of. (Or inotof)

nicely put, inotof :-)

Let me clarify:I don't disagree with you. Where do we draw the line? Quite honestly, I don't like this magazine, either, which I addressed farther up in my post.This was meant more to refute the argument that purchase of a bible from a large corporation is a negative thing. I cannot ignore the fact that I live in this world. I don't wish to embrace it, and I intentionally remove myself from certain aspects of it in an effort to better maintain my accountability to God. But I buy food, I pay taxes, and I purchase references based on the quality because I cannot control whose pocket every dime of my money ends up in. Certain organizations I will not support, but others I see no reason not to. Albertson's and Safeway aren't separate by my concern of parent outfits any more than Borders and Walden. That was the point I think I was more trying to make, which was more expressed later in the post.Oh, and Gen. X is 22 and above? and Gen. Y is 21 nd below I believe. I'm Y, pretty much at the top end of the spread. My 16 month older sister is X.Thank you all for reading this thread with clear thinking and reasoning responses. It is a blessing to come across a community where this is the norm. 8-)

Didn't mean to imply you were a geez(joking) krispy, just curious to see if there was anyone my age out there. :-P

Sure, I understand the rest of you point. I was just replying to the open ended nature of the comment in the middle of the post. To be sure though there are those out there that are not out to make a buck, they print the word and give it away. As far as the whole Wadens/Borders issue, I see a little cause for concern. I see consumers run to places like Wal-Mart to save a buck, Wally World can afford to sell books that I sell at cost because they have a million other products to generate revenue. I care for my customers and want to minister to them thorough quality retail merchadise, I want to make sure they leave with what they need, not something in thier hand so I made a sale. There have been many people who have bought nothing but left encouraged and give God the glory. If people keep adopting the attitude of the chain stores, mine will be out of business. Hope some of the Walden guys know who David Brainerd or E.M. Bounds is, because if we don’t pay attention to where we invest our money and purchase our resources, you’ll be left to pilfer through the latest works of Max Lucado (who is fine just a little fluffy).

it's a winner with me too. ;-)

I've seen your type before in many many venues, I'll let my Father deal with you.... :-o

I want you all to know i second the brother PTywama3'sopinion and regaurless of wether you agree or disagree i love you all and love the oppertuinity to share my thoughts..God Bless you all!

Fascinating.Slander, accusations, back bitting, pride, discenscenions....anger, 'offense's'.Two links:WARNING Missing: Humility“Lead me, O Lord, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies.”- Psalms 5:8Very bitter is the enmity of the world against the people of Christ. Men will forgive a thousand faults in others, but they will magnify the most trivial offence in the followers of Jesus. Instead of vainly regretting this, let us turn it to account, and since so many are watching for our halting, let this be a special motive for walking very carefully before God. If we live carelessly, the lynx-eyed world will soon see it, and with its hundred tongues, it will spread the story, exaggerated and emblazoned by the zeal of slander. They will shout triumphantly. “Aha! So would we have it! See how these Christians act! They are hypocrites to a man.” Thus will much damage be done to the cause of Christ, and much insult offered to his name. The cross of Christ is in itself an offence to the world; let us take heed that we add no offence of our own. It is “to the Jews a stumblingblock”: let us mind that we put no stumblingblocks where there are enough already. “To the Greeks it is foolishness”: let us not add our folly to give point to the scorn with which the worldly-wise deride the gospel. How jealous should we be of ourselves! How rigid with our consciences! In the presence of adversaries who will misrepresent our best deeds, and impugn our motives where they cannot censure our actions, how circumspect should we be! Pilgrims travel as suspected persons through Vanity Fair. Not only are we under surveillance, but there are more spies than we know of. The espionage is everywhere, at home and abroad. If we fall into the enemies’ hands we may sooner expect generosity from a wolf, or mercy from a fiend, than anything like patience with our infirmities from men who spice their infidelity towards God with scandals against his people. O Lord, lead us ever, lest our enemies trip us up!Charles Spurgeon

Hi all,In my previous post I suggested that the criticisms in the first post concerning the content are overly exaggerated. I stand by my statement.I invite you to read the full context of "Radical Faith on 1 Cor. 4:10" --Like everybody else, Christians can sometimes act dumb. They come in all shapes and sizes—Bible thumpers, Scripture-screamers, unforgivers, grace-stealers-the kind of people you wouldn’t want to be in a group with because they’re ruining it for the rest of us. But there's a whole category of Christians that Paul calls "fools for Christ's sake." The apostles were laughed at and thought of as fools. Their relationship with Christ was so real, but so unusual, that some people laughed at them. Is it possible that some of the "nerds" get ridiculed because they really are trying to live like Jesus -- pursuing purity and holiness, giving grace? If that's the case, sign us all up. Let people call you anything as long as God calls you faithful.a. Excerpt on "Radical Faith"I personally find this piece quite well-written. It is important to encourage teenage boys to stand up for their faith even if they are ridiculed. I do not understand why the initial post quotes only the first line: "Like everybody else...for the rest of us," (just the italicized part) and then proceed to say:(Wow... guess if your serious about the Lord and contending for the faith, you're not invited to Refuel's party! Oh, but wait... earlier they didnt seem to have a problem with teenagers going to parties where everyone is sloshing beers! - Krispy)It seems to me that the italicized statement was taken out of context and the conclusion seems to be just the opposite of what the passage is making!I would add that I understand "Bible-thumpers, Scripture-screamers, ..., grace-stealers" as those who misapply the Bible in a rigid and legalistic manner in order bludgeon other people, including Christians. In light of the full context, I would not understand the note in Refuel as referring to "Bible believers! Preachers! Those who take a strong stand for holiness." (Krispy's interpretation).b. Excerpt on "Gambling"The first post failed to mention its somewhat tongue-in-cheek title, How (Not) to Gamble Away Your Life's Savings. Now that gives the following text a whole different meaning!In light of this, I honestly do not think the text is meant to endorse gambling as a casual entertainment. "Okay, some Christians see casual gambling as a form of entertainment. If that’s where you’re at..." c. Excerpt on "Godliness" That column is intended to be humourous. Note the title says, "Random Things to Know About Being a Godly Guy". I have no problem with a little humour. Jesus was a rather humourous person himself.d. Excerpt on Littering There is nothing wrong with that excerpt. The only problem cited was that "the entire magazine does it address, condemn or warn about homosexuality.I find that interesting... and weak. - Krispy ". Is that implying that the publisher is pro-gay or something? Arguing from silence is weak. And you seem to have ignored the various references to the need for sexual purity wihtin the book. I do not think the notes of a Bible need to contain an exhaustive "sin list". And do not forget that the New Century Version is quite clear on its stand against homosexuality. See its Romans 1:26-27 --Because people did those things, God left them and let them do the shameful things they wanted to do. Women stopped having natural sex and started having sex with other women. In the same way, men stopped having natural sex and began wanting each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and in their bodies they received the punishment for those wrongs.TestimonyI personally find Refuel a little too elementary for use with the kids at my church. However, I have an opportunity to talk to a youth leader who organized an evangelistic "coffee house" event for youth, many of whom from broken families and were totally turned off by church. Refuel was one of the resources used.The youth leader also emphasized to me that while they are using all kinds of resources, they want everyone in the church to engage in serious spiritual battle. All the volunteers have spent much time over the weeks to pray for the event, because they understand that true conversion is ultimately brought about by the Holy Spirit. I was quite moved that night. I thought the Spirit was really moving. The packaging of Refuel to a certain degree disarmed these kids from their disgust of the Word and I thank God for this resource, but of course, I know it is the Spirit who sowed the seed of the gospel in these youthful hearts.God can draw a straight line from a crooked stick.

Yes, sir, Godliness is not a joke.But the point was that humor can be involved, not ever that it should be all of it (the former not implying the latter). In my particular opinion, this statement is not without its merit or proper place.

KrispyKittr,Thanks for your comments.The biggest problem I have about the "Bible-thumpers" quote is not what you think it means, but the fact that you took the sentence completely out of context. You can legitimately question what "Bible-thumpers" mean, but in light of the full quote (which somehow got left out in your original post) in my previous message, I still find it hard to understand why you chose to take issue with one obscure line from a great passage that concludes with "Is it possible that some of the "nerds" get ridiculed because they really are trying to live like Jesus -- pursuing purity and holiness, giving grace? If that's the case, sign us all up. Let people call you anything as long as God calls you faithful," yet you conclude with: "guess if your serious about the Lord and contending for the faith, you're not invited to Refuel's party!" Now that completely contradicts with what was actually said in the passage!This is very puzzling to me, to say the least.

"Like everybody else, Christians can sometimes act dumb. They come in all shapes and sizes—Bible thumpers, Scripture-screamers, unforgivers, grace-stealers-the kind of people you wouldn’t want to be in a group with because they’re ruining it for the rest of us. But there's a whole category of Christians that Paul calls "fools for Christ's sake." The apostles were laughed at and thought of as fools. Their relationship with Christ was so real, but so unusual, that some people laughed at them. Is it possible that some of the "nerds" get ridiculed because they really are trying to live like Jesus -- pursuing purity and holiness, giving grace? If that's the case, sign us all up. Let people call you anything as long as God calls you faithful. (Refuel, "Radical Faith" column on 1 Cor. 4:10)Perhaps others can read the above quote and provide some feedback on whether it is really that problematic?KrispyKittr:I take your word for it that you did not do so intentionally -- and I was certainly not inferring that you did in my last post. I'm sorry if my words caused such misunderstanding.God bless!