Menu

Christian Marine kills Police wife on Christmas Eve

S
sermonindex

Watch the video about his supposed transformation by Christ
of a marine soldier who killed his wife.

Watch the testimony of his supposed changed life in 2010.

http://www.jsonline.com/multimedia/video/?bcpid=557970742001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAGgk8Us~,dLqgruaIT6p0-bOvkmnTqxgp_tjv2Dsg&bclid=0&bctid=2054803896001

Then a couple of years later he kills his wife with on Christmas eve.

Where was God here?


A 10-minute video posted more than a year ago on YouTube makes it clear that former Marine Benjamin Sebena, who has been charged in the shooting death of his wife, a Wauwatosa police officer, left Iraq a profoundly affected man.

"My experiences in Iraq were that of having to watch over 50 of my friends, that are good friends, die. Having to kill people. Having to kill a child who tried to kill me," Sebena says as a camera moves toward him in the back of his church, sitting in his favorite seat, the one in front of a pillar so his back is always covered.

"I was a Marine," Sebena's voice says over the video of him sitting alone and staring downward. He has a crew cut and wears an olive green long-sleeved T-shirt.

"We're trained to kill. We're trained that death is OK. Wasn't trained how to deal with the death, but we're definitely trained to kill."

His wife, Jennifer Sebena, was shot to death early Christmas Eve while on duty. Charges against Benjamin Sabena are expected to be filed later Thursday.

The video, which was made for Elmbrook Church's No Regrets Men's Conference in 2010, shows Benjamin Sebena talking about his experience as a Marine in Iraq and how the church helped him after his two tours of duty were finished. The conference's purpose was to empower men in the church.

The conference, which posted the testimony on YouTube in late October 2011, made the video private late Thursday morning. The Journal Sentinel made a transcript of the video before public viewing was disabled.

As the video continues, Benjamin Sebena looks up, and the clip flashes to combat scenes in Iraq with explosions, a machine-gunner firing from behind sandbags, helicopters lifting the wounded. Civilians crying.

A picture of the teenage Sebena appears on the screen. It is followed by family pictures and he talks about how he felt before he joined the military - lost.

"I just wasn't feeling 100% loved. I wasn't feeling important," he says.

"Before I went in, I was pretty much like a hippie. I was very laid back, but the anger was there. It was just very hidden. Then when I went into the Marine Corps, they really taught me how to centralize the anger. After my training, it definitely amplified . . . .It got worse."

The scene flashes back to explosions in Iraq and soldiers running down streets with guns drawn and masked Iraqis on the street holding their own machine guns, barrels pointed up.

"The first time I came back from Iraq, I was extremely angry and very lost in my ways," he says. "I was running red lights. I was taking my motorcycle 150 miles an hour down the expressway. I was scared out of my mind and I was angry all the time. It was a dark, lonely world."

In September 2004, Sebena says, he returned to Iraq for his second tour. The violence at the time was so rampant that he says he and his fellow Marines were shot at every time they left their encampment.

"We were losing guys left and right . . . .I lost over 50 friends to combat injuries. Basically we had to find a release."

It was the Internet.

A picture on the screen flashes to what looks like a social media site with the image of a 22-year-old woman. Her black hair is pulled back behind a big smile. The name on the screen says Jen.

"On MySpace, I found a girl that I used to go to high school on there with and she was cute so I sent a little thing like, 'Hey, I'm a Marine. I'm in Iraq. How ya doin?' And she sent back like, 'Ok, I'm good.' So that didn't work, but I'm a Marine, so I kept on trying. So every day we kept on writing each other emails back and forth, if not two or three of them a day. And then Feb. 3 of 2005 happened."

That's the day during his second tour in Iraq when he says a friend asked him to step outside for a smoke. He declined, and moments later a mortar round struck and killed the friend. Sebena was also severely wounded and was eventually taken by C-130 to Germany and then to California, where his recovery continued for injuries to his leg and arm. He also continued his courtship.

"We just kept on writing back and forth every day and slowly building our relationship up," he says.

On the mend, Sebena left the military and returned to his home state.

"I came back home to Wisconsin and started spending more time with Jen and our love flourished. We became actually infatuated with each other and then one day I asked her if she would be happy to spend the rest of her life with me and she said yes."

They got married and started attending Elmbrook Church and taking classes for young couples. That is apparently where he met Rob Adams.

"Ben really shared his heart with me, and I developed an appreciation for the impact that war had had on his life. For the impact that war had had on his marriage," Adams says on the video.

Pictures appear on the screen of Sebena meeting with a small crew of men from the church.

"I felt loved. I felt protected and I felt safe - for the first time," Sebena says.

"I realized I had to rededicate my life to God."

"What anyone will see when they meet Ben is he's a delightful young man. He's had some challenges in his life, many of which came from being at war. He gave me a deep appreciation for the sacrifice that he and a lot of other young men have made to defend our country," Adams says.

Another image from Iraq flashes on the screen of Sebena in combat dress, wearing a black headband and holding a machine gun. It's followed by a picture of him with pursed lips, a pistol cocked in the air.

Sebena decided to start his own group to help fellow veterans.

"What better way than to reach out to veterans that have come back from combat. A lot of them are in a deep dark world of pain, and the only people that really can relate to a combat veteran is another combat veteran," Sebena says.

"I've been there. I've done it. I've been to the same places as them. I've been into the dark places, and I want to help bring them into th

http://www.heavy.com/news/2012/12/charge-cop-killed-by-marine-husband-while-on-patrol-on-christmas-eve/

Where was God here?

S
sermonindex

Watch the video about his supposed transformation by Christ
of a marine soldier who killed his wife.

Watch the testimony of his supposed changed life in 2010.

Then a couple of years later he kills his wife with on Christmas eve.

Where was God here?

It isn't really possible to say if this young man was in any way really converted and born again. Perhaps it is a case of the psychology of God and not a true revelation of Christ the risen Lord. The anger he expressed as arising out of his childhood when he says "he never felt loved" even though he lived in a christian family etc, is deepened by his experience in the Marine Corp because his anger is channeled and he even kills a child at one time for fear of his own life. His anger seems to have been centred on God Himself and would appear that his action of killing his wife may have had the same root as well. Clearly his anger didn't go away.

You ask the question where God is in all of this! I presume you mean where is God in this young man's life or perhaps you mean where is the evidence of his conversion. One thing is for sure when we are willing to make a show of God in the lives of others by encouraging them to speak as though they truly were born again then we may simply become a stumbling block to them and they will end up paying the price in their own bodies. It demonstrates the utter foolishness of boasting in the flesh, even the flesh of religion and having no discernment to really comprehend the condition of the man. Where were the elders and leaders when his relationship to his wife fell to pieces? Where were the prayers and the keeping of the flock? May God keep us and deliver us from religious nonsense and vanity.

S
sermonindex

A couple of things. This is why I'm so against the teaching of the modern church. 99% of the modern church has false converts like this. They probably gave him an emotional experience and gave him the pressure to do a testimony. The conversion wasn't a real one even though he was genuine.
But now he has to act like a converted person which causes more trouble and makes him a pharisee.

This is why I hate modern church teachings like this quiz

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=47876&forum=48&14

And where was God in this? Obviously, this guy was trying to seek God. He didn't start this search for God cause of any other reason. And God let him down.

Where was God in the Holocaust. Where is God when there are millions dying of starvation admist all unanswered prayers.

I've been seeking God all my life and I have never had an answered prayer.

G
ginnyrose

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"Where was God in the Holocaust. Where is God when there are millions dying of starvation amidst all unanswered prayers."
______________________________________________________________


Why blame God?

Man - including you- are endowed with a freewill. If you make bad choices you will reap. If you choose God, the devil will work to distract you from that choice. It is up to you. God seldom interferes in the choices man makes but will use them to prove to you how stupid and bad the devil is. Who you choose to believe is up to you.

S
sermonindex

with much respect to you ginnyrose.

So the jewish people who died in the holocaust freely chose a horrible death? They made poor decisions and their punishment was to be apart of one of the most gruesome displays of hate and injustice in history?

I got a friend who died in his 20's. He did not "choose" to die.

I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguement. But I've been following God for decades and really intensely following God for the last 3 years and God has said absolutely nothing. The only constant in my life is suffering, despair and uncertainty. The worst part is not the suffering but it's me continually putting everything on the line to find Christ, only for him to not even respond.

Sometimes "Free will" is just a christian cliche. We bring it up any time God doesn't show up or when a christian messes up. Then when we need prayer and a miracle, we don't bring up "free will", we say that God is sovereign and in control of everything.

Your free will is not as free as you think. If you really think about it, outside events and other influences control most of your life. I can't create a job out of thin air, right now. I can't change the economy.

As a person, I found out that we control very very little, after all don't christians say that "god is in control" all the time.

M
MaryJane

I am editing my post to further pray. I am not sure if I expressed what the LORD was putting on my heart in such a way that I hoped to.

God bless
mj

Edit: Codek if you have happened to read my response to you then please know I am praying for you. I want to share some things with you but want to be prayerfull of my wording and felt perhaps to pray more before I return to post again.

God bless
mj

S
sermonindex

I read your post and found nothing wrong with it. But it was like a foreign language to me. Yes I agree that bitterness and anger is a sin but there are reasons for that anger.

When I wasn't bitter or angry, he never answered my prayer either. I only became bitter and angry when he continually lied to me and left me for dead. I kept trusting him and having faith in him, only to get annihilated for following
Christ. Did I not have enough faith? How am I suppose to be ok with a God that constantly tortures me, leaves me hanging and expects so much of me? What am I suppose to do?
I ask God and he doesn't say a word. I tried everything and he still won't say it.

I've also asked God to show me how I'm bitter or angry and how to overcome it with no avail.

If I told my son that I would be there for him and guide him and that he is the apple of my eye but refuse to answer him, reject his prayers, not guide him at all, and set up traps for him, HOW DO I EXPECT MY SON TO REACT? Is he going to PRETEND that I love him and that I care? This is not out of bitterness or anger, not this part. How does that work? I'm really curious. Cause it sounds ridiculous.


If God is suppose to be loving, and he is suppose to answer prayer, and we're suppose to find him when we seek him.

How would you react if he doesn't do any of that when I've been seeking him all my life?

What am I suppose to do? Pretend that God answered my prayers and he cares? Pretend that he is here with me?

Does God really need for me to pretend that he is good?

I'm not saying this out of anger but out of confusion.

Then if people pretend to accept christ, will God accept that pretend acceptance at the judgement table?

Why do I have to be true when he is pretending?

Where is this God? Where? I'm literally dying to meet him.

M
MaryJane

by codek on 2012/12/30 12:02:41

I read your post and found nothing wrong with it. But it was like a foreign language to me. Yes I agree that bitterness and anger is a sin but there are reasons for that anger.
________

Codek I don't think there is really anything more that I can share with you at this time. Its seems "you feel" you are justified in your sins, as you said you have "reasons" so anything I try to share will be of little use.

I will pray for you as the LORD gives me leading.

God bless
mj

S
sermonindex

I understand that

But if God doesn't answer your prayer for decades and doesn't do anything. If He doesn't do what he is suppose to do, How are you NOT suppose to be angry?

God can't do anything he wants, he is bound by his word, no?

he said seek and you shall find, he said prayers are suppose to be answered. I'm not asking for answered prayers for all of them. But to have nothing answered is ridiculous.

I'm suppose to lie to everyone and say he answered my prayers? Do you want me to give a false testimony? That's what probably happened to the marine.

where is his kindness that leads us to repentance? Isn't that in the bible. There was no kindness shown to me.

G
ginnyrose

QUOTE:
"I got a friend who died in his 20's. He did not "choose" to die."
______________________________________________________________

We had a 25 YO daughter, Regina, who was married with two little ones who died of a glioblastoma (brain cancer). She did not choose to die either, but we released her to our LORD and Savior to do as He wills so He took her and we are content with that. How can we be content? Because we know she was ready to meet her Maker. And her children? In two years God provided a spouse for their dad and a mother for them. God was good and still is.

Did I grieve? Sure! But God was there to comfort me. Codek, I chose to throw myself onto the LORD for his comfort and mercy and he did that. I surrendered Regina to him. There was nothing I nor anyone could do to heal her - back then a glioblastoma victim had a 5% chance of recovery. If God would have chosen to heal her I would have been one happy mother. He did not but instead comforted me in ways that far, far surpasses anything you can imagine. I promise. If God would have healed Regina I would never have experienced the comfort He gave me...Think about that! I would never have seen this side of God...

I have also written a lot of how God helped me deal with tragedy...I am not the only person on this planet who can testify to God's faithfulness. God does not exist to make life 'happy' as moderns define happiness. True happiness comes a a result of surrendering our will,our life to the will of the LORD Jesus.

Did our SIL grieve? Yes! If you will, you can read how the LORD provided a new wife for our son-in-law here:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7247&forum=36&1

God bless you, Codek. I am trusting you will find what you are looking for.

ginnyrose

PS: BTW, my handle is the nickname I used to call Regina - Her name was Regina Rose. :-)

G
ginnyrose

Perhaps I should share with you how I surrendered Regina to the LORD for his healing.

I was at her house when Dr. Field called telling me she will likely be dead in 4 weeks. Since she is pregnant, he wants to take the (30 week gestation)baby next week because he knows he can save it but knows he cannot save the mother. After taking the child by C-section he was going to remove the tumor in her brainstem which may prolong her life. Glioblastoma cells are very active, virulent, defy medical treatment - at least so it was back in 1995.

I cried hard, very hard. Every bit of two days. At the end of two days I saw I could not live like this, I am going to have to have it out with God. After putting my granddaughter, Carmen, to bed I took my Bible and I studied it about divine healing, having the faith as a grain of a mustard seed and prayed all the while I was in meditation - that is what meditation entails, praying and studying all at the same time.

At the end of this time spent with God, surrendering her to Him for his care and healing, He gave me the sense that I was to live life to the full each and every day and not worry about her dying because if she was going to, He would be there to comfort me when I need it. I did this. I finally learned to live. I lived life to the full, knew she will die unless God intervenes but also knew God would comfort me if He chose to take her. And He took her 10.5 months later.

Codek, there are worse things in life then dying - it is living in rebellion to the LORD. We have two prodigals and that grief far surpasses any we ever had in dealing with Regina's illness. I promise. I would a whole lot rather deal with cancer in the life of a Believer then deal with sin in the life of an unrepentant child. I find it very distracting when people wring their hands at a Believer's cancer who is ready to die. We are given the promise that we will die - someday. Since this is the case it is up to us to get ready for that event. Failure to do so will be the most foolish thing a body can do and there is no repentance for it after the event.

Hope this helps.

ginnyrose

G
ginnyrose

One more issue: After Regina died, I was faced with the question, "how will I respond when or if I hear of a report of someone who was supernaturally healed of glioblastoma?" Think about that. Our only daughter died of it, I miss her, and now here is someone who the LORD healed, why did God not heal my daughter? God knows I loved her as did her husband and children. How am I going to react?

As I mulled this issue, I also knew the LORD was forcing me to face this question before it became an issue with me. I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt the LORD heard our prayers and those of others offered on her behalf. I knew that. Gina's dying did not take God by surprise. This is reality. He was in charge from the get go, from the day she was conceived. It was not like as though she suddenly appeared before the gates of heaven and God looked up in surprise and asked, "Oh! why are you here?"

NO! God does not act like this. He had decreed her mission on planet earth to be completed. To live beyond that would be counter-productive and cause more grief. She belonged to Him and when her job was completed God had the right to call her home. Simple. And it is in my best interest to cooperate with that decision.

Now if someone had glioblastoma and the LORD supernaturally healed them it meant they still had work to do in which He will be glorified. It is all in God's hands and knowing this removes all bitterness when God does not act according to our personal wishes.

These principles have far-reaching implications for all of life. They are fundamental to all issues when God does not act according to our own will or logic. We do well to allow God be God - he has no obligation to explain to us the reason for his decisions. None. I used to think one of the first questions I will ask God when I get heaven is why did he take her in the glory of her youth? But I have since decided knowing this is totally irrelevant. I do not have to know now or ever. I am just glad God allowed her to be born to me and grace our family for 25 years! Now that was a blessing, I promise!

You see, Codek, we can choose whether to trust God for the things he allows or we can get resentful and bitter. We will not change God's modus operanti so it is in our best interest to submit to Him. Doing so will enable us to get a glimpse of his wisdom which far surpasses ours.

Yes, God is good ALL the time.

EDIT: Can you find any incident in all of Scripture where a person fought against God and won? I do not know of any. And neither will anyone else. God always wins.

S
sermonindex

Thank you for sharing that ginnyrose. I'm sure that event was a very real and painful one for you and your close ones.

I'm still trying to process all these things. Everything has gone wrong in my life when I sought God, I feel numb to it all. I will keep rereading your posts and try to get some understanding from it.


"EDIT: Can you find any incident in all of Scripture where a person fought against God and won? I do not know of any. And neither will anyone else. God always wins."

There is no proof that God is winning. In fact it's quiet the opposite. God is motivated by his glory and for his love for humankind but ultimately for his glory. He is a meglomaniac but you can argue that he deserves to be. Most people will end up in hell, which supposedly God doesn't want but he makes it impossible to follow him.


The only way to fight God is to do what Satan is supposedly doing. You can't hurt a being that you can't feel, see, or touch. You can only hurt his heart by sending all his people that he loves to hell. And you can also persecute these people or put them at war with each other until they give up and 99% of people are doing what Satan wants.

God is not winning the war of souls. It is the worst defeat in history. I'm not saying that to bash God. It's the truth. I don't know any real christians in my life and I've met thousands of church goers.

D
davidkeel

Hi Codek, it is terrible being in that position of wondering where God is in your life. You said you have been seeking God all your life. Are you able to share how you have been seeking him? Have you ever experienced Jesus?
There is a way that God has made for us to come to know him. It is through faith in Jesus Christ. If you had God you might not be feeling so tormented and alone like this.

H
hoohoou

codek,

Oh man, please believe I know just how you feel. While I haven’t had to experience a lot of misery first hand, I know the feeling of trying so hard and everything falling apart around you. I sought God for years and felt anything but the peace He promises. I saw a hurting world and a God who did nothing. I remembered the preachers telling me how horrible and sad and lost sinners were. I saw people having a good time and succeeding in things that I failed at. Nothing made sense.

Then I met Jesus. I mean really met Him and understood what He did for me. Upon that meeting I was able to look at the world in a completely different way. Yes, there was pain when I thought God should be taking care of it, but now I understood that God was not the cause of it all. Satan and ourselves were the cause of the pain and suffering in the world. God causes it to rain on the just and unjust, which means that good and bad things happen to good and bad people. God’s ways are not our ways. That means that they are not our ways at all. When we don’t see the logic in what God is doing I think it means we are placing ourselves as equal with God. We get angry with loved ones and friends when they don’t do something that we think is obviously the right choice. We do that because we feel as qualified, or more so, to make that judgment. We are NOT qualified to make that judgment with God. I don’t say this to attack you, but instead to release you from that burden. It’s not our job to understand the ways of God because we never will.

I would highly recommend listening to some of the better known Reformed preachers around right now. I’m Wesleyan/arminian personally, but guys like John Piper, Matt Chandler and Tim Keller have really helped me recently understand the sovereignty of God. They have helped me let go of some of the things that were holding me back, namely, my ability to do any good. If I’m incapable of doing good without the Holy Spirit then certainly I’m incapable of knowing what God should be doing. On the website Monergism I found some Tim Keller sermons that really helped. I can’t remember the exact name of them but there weren’t a whole lot by him. It was a series so it shouldn’t be too hard to find if you’re interested.

Like I said in a post to you in a different thread, please don’t give up. God is teaching you even now and deepening your understanding, if you don’t give up. You don’t have to spend every waking minute reading the Bible or in focused prayer, but you’ve got to keep your heart on Him. Guard your heart, but let God take you through this time of doubt. If you’ve truly believed then God will not let you wander far if you choose to stay, and I don’t doubt that you have truly believed. Not only that, but when He brings you out of this time you will have a testimony that He can use. It could be that He wants you to understand these questions so you can help others who are struggling. He will reveal Himself if you keep knocking and asking.

Matt

L
lylewise

Ginny Quote: "If God would have healed Regina I would never have experienced the comfort He gave me....Think about that! I would never have seen this side of God."

If more could understand what you experienced. This is possibly one of the greatest truths I have ever read since being saved. At the cost of even one of our own, God is revealed more clearly and that is treasured above all things. That is infinitely more valuable than this physical life. For what is life if it is not the opportunity to see something of Him revealed that was not know before and to feel His overwhelming presence and all that accompanies it. I believe your daughter would laud you when you join her at the feet of Christ, that is if she were not so awed by his presence which we know is something she will truely never recover from. Sounds like her Mom.

S
sermonindex

lylewise Quote: "If more could understand what you experienced. This is possibly one of the greatest truths I have ever read since being saved. At the cost of even one of our own, God is revealed more clearly and that is treasured above all things. That is infinitely more valuable than this physical life. For what is life if it is not the opportunity to see something of Him revealed that was not know before and to feel His overwhelming presence and all that accompanies it. I believe your daughter would laud you when you join her at the feet of Christ, that is if she were not so awed by his presence which we know is something she will truely never recover from. Sounds like her Mom."

I respect ginnyrose's experience but that could be hogwash in many other cases. People can just say that as an excuse for God when he doesn't answer prayer. Obviously, he doesn't answer prayer because I don't know of anyone that has been healed.

You are led to believe if you read the bible, that God will heal. But in reality God never heals. If God did heal, John MacArthur's beliefs would be proved false.


So the bible is lying and creating false expectations. God should've been clear and have Jesus heal no one and tell them your gift is in the afterlife, but he didn't do that, did he? If God is not going to answer 99.999% of all our prayers here. He should've never answered prayer in any of the bible stories and told everyone that he will answer them in the afterlife. Then this would make sense.

There is no peace from God. Everyday, I wish that I get run over by a truck. If it wasn't against the rules, and the impact to my immediate family, I would've already ended my life(I'm not asking for sympathy by saying that, ending my life would be the only logical choice).

I need to also add that I'm no slouch either. I was at a decent income level(around 100k) and I had lots to look forward to in my life. I'm not saying that to boast, I just don't want you guys to think I'm some loser who is just blaming god because he is a loser. I'm not all that either. I gave it all up(401k, savings, social life, im in 32k credit card debt now) because God told me to do and I'm paying for it.

What if you never received blessings from God and only received curses. How am I suppose to trust Him? When all the evidence in my life is pointed against Him. Is this really about how great I am, how great my faith is? Isn't this about how great HE is?

Trusting Him with my experiences is utter stupidity. And you don't think I ever trusted him before? How do you think I end up this angry? By NEVER trusting him? Of course I trusted him, why would I give up so much, try so hard and be so angry if I never trusted him. THIS IS ALL BECAUSE I TRUSTED HIM.

If I could kill God right now, I would.


B
brothagary

codek it was satan you were trusting not god ,you have been decieved by satans spirit ,,,,wanting to kill god is the greatest sighn of that becasue that is what he wants ,,

S
sermonindex

brothagary

and guess who let me trust Satan thinking I was following God? WHO?

brothagary, I don't think you know enough about my situation.

B
brothagary

friend i do remeber reading your account of your church life and all fasle christans you expereneced ,you were decribing an apostate movment ,that has a fasle gosple ,with suducing spirits ,, you would never had herd the true saving gosple in that type of church

S
sermonindex

so brothagary, if you read my account, why are you not answering my question. I'll ask again

WHO ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN?

I never knowing followed Satan. In the apostate churches I attended, I genuinely thought I was following God.

And I'm genuinely seeking him now. I don't attend churches anymore because they are all apostate now, pretty much.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi codek,


Trusting Him with my experiences is utter stupidity. And you don't think I ever trusted him before? How do you think I end up this angry? By NEVER trusting him? Of course I trusted him, why would I give up so much, try so hard and be so angry if I never trusted him. THIS IS ALL BECAUSE I TRUSTED HIM.

First of all, you weren't "trusting Him" with your actions here. The "utter stupidity" was in placing faith in the words and teaching of man, leaning on your own "understanding" and fancying yourself intelligent enough to "out think" God.

The "trust" that God is after is unconditional. It isn't "what will I get" or "how will I benefit" type of "trust." That isn't trust at all. That is theoretical "investment" as if God were a Divine Negotiator. So what is "trust?" It is believing -- having faith -- in God.

After all, those who please God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. But what does He reward us with? It isn't money, fame, comfort, health, etc... If it were, then the apostles (most of whom died as martyrs) weren't "rewarded" with such things. Rather, God rewards you with a relationship with Him.

You go to God just like you are supposed to give -- expecting nothing physical in return. He gives you access to Him. It is an awesome thing to know that we can go to Him! This faith...this trust...can give someone perfect peace when the world comes crashing down around them! It is called "perfect peace."


If I could kill God right now, I would.

These words cause me to feel compassion for you. The Pharisees felt this way. I suspect that they KNEW the written Word well enough to know that Jesus Christ was the Son of the Living God. Yet, they trusted in themselves...in their ability to reason...and dismissed the God who stood before Him. They wanted Him dead and did what they could to do that.

I urge you to not rely on your own mind, understanding or sense of logic when it comes to God. It is futile to do so, because His ways are NOT our ways. Instead, trust Him regardless of the outcome. Life is so short that our current Hell or private paradise that we may live in is nothing and short by comparison.

I consider all of the years of my education, my intelligence, my sense of logic and my capacity to think as nothing more than dung compared to knowing Him. If necessary, I would give it all up to Him...again.

I am praying for you, Codek. He is faithful. Life may feel like a mountain has collapsed upon you. However, that is nothing to the void of an eternity without Him.

S
sermonindex

Chris, you are missing the point.

I'm not asking for prosperity. I had that on my own. I wanted to find Him. And he doesn't even answer my prayers. He never tells me anything. The worst part is that he is silent in all of this. I've said this MANY MANY times before. If you read my posts, ALL of you would understand this.

He doesn't guide me at all. He doesn't do anything. I'm on my own. I read the bible and listen to sermons 7 times a week at least. I ask him for guidance on what I need to do. And do you know what kind of answer I get back? NOTHING
Not even a "NO". Just nothing, like I'm talking to superman and asking superman for help.

And I gave it all up willingly, I chose to give it up to follow him. I'm looking for A RELATIONSHIP with God,(how do you not understand this?)I'm a pretty capable guy. If I wanted prosperity, I would just get it on my own! But obviously, that's not what I want.

And about faith, what you are describing is BLIND FAITH. No one is stupid enough to have BLIND FAITH because that would mean, we would be stupid enough to think Batman or Superman would save the day.

Your faith in God, if it's genuine, was not just derived out of thin air. If it was, you would be an idiot and I don't think you are. There are reasons why you trust God and it has to do with your relationship with God. Relationships are made through experiences. If I can't trust him with the small things, HOW AM I GOING TO TRUST HIM WITH MY AFTERLIFE. For all we know, he could send all of us to hell.

If I was your dad and all I did was lie to you, trick you and never deliver on my promises since you were a little kid, and NEVER TALKED TO YOU, HOW WOULD YOU TRUST HIM?

If you went through that, YOU WOULD NOT TRUST HIM EITHER, CHRIS. that wasn't my fault.

And I tried to trust Him. I did trust Him but after the DECADES of no answers and no guidance, no responses, what am I suppose to do?


Btw, your post could be interpreted as xian gobbledygook. Very eloquently put but you can say that about Budda, Allah, Batman or Superman. None of that, you can prove. You need to relate it with experiences or testimonies of how you can rely on God. Otherwise, it's just christianese.

About Hebrews 11:6, yeah but isn't it his "kindness that leads us to repentance"

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

Romans 3:10-12
As it is written:“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away,they have together become worthless;"
there is no one who does good,not even one.”

The faith that is required to please God doesn't come from thin air. It's a process. He seeks us first and none of us ever sought him first. I can't just have faith. That is a copout answer and you know this.

Give me experiences where God you built your faith? Surely if there is a relationship here, between you and God, it isn't devoid of experiences.


"These words cause me to feel compassion for you" - Chris

If you really feel compassion for me, do you also feel compassion for all the people that will supposedly end up in hell everyday. Most of the time, when I'm at the mall, or a large store, I walk around and look at them and realize that MOST OF THESE PEOPLE WILL END UP IN HELL. Some are searching for God but God makes it nearly impossible to find him. If you have compassion for people who are not saved, what have you done tangibly to alleviate this issue? I have gone out street witnessing, trying to heal the sick, talking about jesus every chance I get to the point of exhaustion.

Do you like Paul "wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people"? Do you love like that? If so, give me some real life examples. I find that even on sermonindex, I find many that is so excellent with their theology but their actions don't back up what they say.

B
brothagary

codek when you say you would kill god if you could ,and then say your seeking god genuinly ,,,,this is a huge contradiction,, those who hate god to the point of wanting him dead ,are not seeking god friend ,,dont decieve your self in to thinking you are ,,

god is sourven so he alows all things to happen

but the bible says he works all things for good to those that love him and are called according to his pourpus

friend youve never loved god and you certainly dont love him now

B
brothagary

codek you must rember before a true conversion takes place ,we are under the power of the evil one ,,the prince and power of the air the spirit that works in the children of disbodence says the bible

he has been deciving and tricking all of us at one point

the bible says he who is born of god keeps him self
and the evil one does not touch him

friend all the evedence in your words and previous posts ,point to a fact that you are not born of god ,,,,,but dont loses heart at that fact

if you will stop blaming god ,and blame your self

there is hope

S
sermonindex

Brothergary

LOL, please just butt out of this thread.

This is not a Brothergary vs Codek thread. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings with my responses, that why you said "friend youve never loved god and you certainly dont love him now" which is not an attempt at replying to the thread but just a dig on me.

Obviously, you have not read my prior threads, been there and done that to all your suggestions. DIDN'T WORK.

Until you can add meat to this thread, I have no choice but to ignore your responses.

Thank you for trying to help me out.

B
brothagary

that fine ,but your words were you want to kill god

my feelings have never been hurt by you friend dont fell that way

if you dont reliese that you hate god by looking at your own words you posted here ,theres no chance you will repent ,,,,,you can ignore these words , im fine with that ,,the gosple of repentenece wont tikel you ears ,,

it will hurt us , but it will then bring forth fruit


blessings

S
sermonindex

How can you guys be so obtuse? Have NONE of you guys ever brought anyone to the Lord? Does spewing a bunch of theology and bible verses ever work? Even with my posts, I always bring in experiences. If I just spew some verses, would any one of view be dense enough to believe me?

You can say all the christian cliches and dress up all the christianese you want but you need to back it up with experiences.

Ginnyrose shared an experience and Jeremy Lin does it below. He doesn't just repeat Romans 8:28 until he is blue in the face. He gives real life examples. I'm not saying everyone has to have a Jeremy Lin miracle happen in his life. I'm saying you need to back up your verses with some tesimonies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zn_PeaJQR8

If it was so easy to follow Christ, why are so many struggling with it, today?

brothergary, what is your testimony, not only when and how you got saved? but how do you continually believe in God when the whole world is stacked against you even your own flesh?

I'm sorry if I'm being rude and demanding. This is only a reflection of how God treats me EVERYDAY of my life. No grace has been shown me.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi codek,

What are you praying for? At this point, your prayer should ONLY be to know Him. Period.

I met the Lord when I was standing alone in a field one night at a summer camp. I was a popular, honor roll high school student and had been quite agnostic leading up to that point. That night, my unbelief began to erode. The words of Matthew 11:28-30 (which I had read for the first time earlier that day) were replaying in my head. Yet, there was plenty of confusion too. I was convinced that I still didn't truly believe that God existed.

After all, I had known so many phonies...so many hypocrites...so many Christian know-it-alls (who still boasted in their ignorance)...so many people who claimed to know Him but of which I really doubted because of the manner in which they lived. Did I really need God anyway? What if He didn't really exist? Was I going to waste my life serving a make-believe "God" that I would never see, hear or know? What if I lived 100 years serving a myth?

My mind raced.

While standing along in that field, there was something else happening. I felt my whole being longing for the Lord. I felt a deep-seeded desire to know Him as others claimed to know Him.

Suddenly, I heard it.

"You don't know me."

I am not aware that these words were physically audible. Yet, deep in my heart, I knew that these words were from God. I did NOT know Him. In fact, I didn't even know much about Him.

At this point, I poured out my entire life to God. I cried out to God from the deepest depths of my soul KNOWING that He was real. I wanted to Know Him more than I wanted to breathe! I cried out telling Him that I would trade all that I was and all that I would ever be if I could just know Him and be His friend. There was nothing left for me to offer. I conceded the end of my life to Him. I poured out every fiber of my soul to God -- expecting nothing in return and not even understanding why He would want me.

Yet, I felt the arms of God. I knew He was there. I knew that He was real. I knew that He heard me. And, I knew that He wanted me even more than I wanted Him.

You see, codek, God is not a liar. His Word is clear in that He wants you. He wants to know you. He wants to hold you in His arms and comfort you in a way that is unimaginable. His love for you cannot be measured, defined or even explained. It transcends the universe, science, time and even our sins. He cannot love you more than He loves you now. You can only endeavor to know and please Him. Yet, it is HIS pleasure when you do this!

Codek, my life changed on that night. Now, on the surface, I was still Chris. I still earned good grades. I was still a person that people recognized in high school. However, I was now dedicating my life -- my grades, reputation, character and all other things -- to Him. I didn't want these things to come between us.

On the night that I met the Lord at that summer camp, I remember returning to our dorm. I remember laying on my bed (the top bunk) and weeping as I stared at the ceiling. How could I -- a sinful young man -- know and have the attention of the one true Living God who created the entire Universe? I remember not caring if I lived or died. In fact, I even told the Lord that it would be good if He took me to Eternity that night -- because I didn't love the world anymore and longed so deeply to be with Him face-to-face.

Since then, I have learned many things in my walk with the Lord. I went on with my education, graduating multiple degrees from college and graduate schools with highest honors. I married a godly young woman that I met in college. Since that time, I have known what it is to hunger and to have plenty and then to hunger again. I have had jobs. I have been unemployed. I have had other jobs. I have been hurt deeply and I have hurt others.

More times than I can count, that "sinful man" that I thought died the night that I met the Lord suddenly resurrected and caused inner havoc and turmoil. I have led people to Christ. Unfortunately, I fear that my example may have led people away at times too.

While I have made plenty of mistakes, I have never had a moment where I wanted to walk away from God. My heart beats for Him. My wife is aware that I want Him more than I want to please her. I desire Him above all things.

This is not "blind faith." Why? Because I "see" the Lord when I speak with Him. I learn from Him by sitting in His presence -- knowing that He hears me even when I don't "feel" Him with my flesh or intellect.

Codek, God is here...right now. He sees you reading this very post. He knows all of your thoughts -- even every hidden thought. Nothing in you escapes His notice. There is no place in this world where you can escape His knowledge. Yet, in all of your humanity, doubt, pride and sinfulness, God still has unfathomable love for you. He longs for you. He longs to know you -- even more than you want to know Him.

So, how do you come to the point where you know Him?

It takes giving up yourself. It isn't "gobbledlygook." It isn't the rantings and ravings of a man with a low IQ. It also isn't coming from a man who is so "heavenly minded" that I float above the earth. I am still Chris. I still wrestle with myself daily...and not placing the things of this world ahead of my desire to know Him.

Let me be clear: God has not lied to you.

There could be a misunderstanding about what it is that God wants for you. However, He doesn't promise us the world and a care-free life. He simply promises you Himself if you willingly give yourself up to Him. You have to come to Him though -- willing to give up this entire world and anything and everything that you would ever be. It isn't a slot machine type of prayer. It is giving yourself and your future to Him expecting nothing but the opportunity to know Him in return.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for...and the evidence of things not seen. So, it takes faith to know that God hears you (*even if you hear or feel nothing). Be assured: God is there. God hears you. God sees you. God longs to comfort you. Yet, you must be willing to surrender it all regardless of whether you ever feel anything at all or not. When I gave my life to Him, I didn't do so expecting Him to embrace me or speak to me. Yet, my cry was real. It was honest and pure and came from every ounce of my being. I urge you to do what I did -- because God does not favor either one of us over the other.

I will be praying for you, codek. I apologize if my words are confusing or seem to amount to nothing more than silly or meaningless babel. I know that I will be accountable for the things that I am writing and I want these things to mean something or trigger something in your heart. I do want you to know Him too -- as much as I have known Him (and still long to know Him more). I do hope that we can meet and know Him in Eternity too.

If you would like to chat (via telephone), just send me an email. My email address should be in my profile.

Again: I will be praying for you tonight.

S
sermonindex

Chris please email me at codek1424@yahoo.com

Thank you

D
davidkeel

Hi again Codek, I never believed in God until the time I attempted suicide. I was in the bathroom and 16 years of age. I was blaming God for all the things that had gone wrong in my life. I was a very successful athlete but everything fell apart and everyone had deserted me.

As I raised my hand to my mouth with a hand full of tablets a presence came from somewhere and into the bathroom. Then I became aware that God was about to speak to me personally.
I heard Gods voice rumbling like thunder. I hadn't read a bible and I never knew his voice sounded like that, so it wasn't something I invented. And I hadn't known of his existence before that.
The love in that voice for me was totally incredible.
Though He did tell me that I was to blame for my life being so bad. That stunned me as at that time I had always blamed my mother.

I believe that you really want God. God does love you and loves you amazingly. Those aren't just words from me it's something I know of his heart. I have love and compassion for you. Saying you want to kill God is not what you really want, you just want things to be right in your life.

I am recovering from a ten year mental breakdown just now. But I am just returning back to a life of trusting God by faith and because of his promises and his grace.

I had been through many years of striving to find God through my own obedience and works.

Do you think you might have been doing works to try and please him ? I'm only making a suggestion, to see what you think about this idea.

This discussion is archived and closed to new replies. Start a new discussion to carry the subject on.
Archived
1 of 31 posts

Everything we make is available for free because of a generous community of supporters.

Donate