2 Timothy 3:16 - 17
All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness so that tbe man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Is this true? Are tbescriptures sufficient to instruct us in the ways of Christ? If they are not then why?
Bearmaster.
Yes, the Scriptures are suffcient..
andy
Yes, the Scriptures are suffcient. I like to quote someone that understands our time and 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
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The Mystical model of Christianity in these last days of strong delusion and great apostasy has replaced the Biblical model. So-called ministers are idolized and even worshipped because they give spiritual experiences that are NOT OF GOD. Many who would claim to be Christians are NOT. Many so-called Christian ministers promote a mystical model of Christianity that is NOT OF GOD. The mystical model is based only upon two things, rather than the three things in historic Christianity. The mystical model has only the spirit and one's human spirit. Few today realize that the spirit transmitted is called the holy spirit by the Hindu and Buddhist as well as the Christian. The spirit in the mystical model of Christianity is NOT OF GOD.
The Biblical model of Christianity is based upon the Word of God, the Spirit of God, and the renewed regenerated mind of man. True faith says that I only accept and believe what is based upon God's written Word. The only Faith that is OF God is measured by its determination to DO what God said, just because God said so. There is really NO place for the Word of God in the Mystical Model of Christianity. IT IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, but rather the mystical model is Christian OCCULTISM.
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hi, ask the pharisees...jimp
by bearmaster on 2013/1/4 14:32:08
2 Timothy 3:16 - 17
All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness so that tbe man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Is this true? Are tbescriptures sufficient to instruct us in the ways of Christ? If they are not then why?
Bearmaster.
___________
This is a difficult question and I am giving my answer tentatively although I may come back and add to my thoughts as the LORD shows me more on this topic. I plan to spend some time in study on this but my initial response to you is yes the Scripture is sufficient, "however" the Scripture itself(the words written) can not do anything with out the power of the HOLY SPIRIT working in a persons life. So yes the Scripture is sufficient to teach, admonish, encourage and train me in the ways that I should go to follow CHRIST but with out JESUS in my life, with out the working of the HOLY SPIRIT then they are only words on pages in a book. There is life to be found within the pages of GODS HOLY WORDS but only to those who seek HIM and HE gives understanding to. IF I were an unsaved person with no desire to know GOD then the BIBLE sadly would just be literature for me to read...This is my understanding as best as I can explain at this moment, the Scripture is the very WORDS of GOD given to us to point us to JESUS with the end result being a relationship daily living in submission unto KING JESUS as LORD of our lives. They are sufficient and useful as is said in the verse you shared but GOD has used other tools in the lives of believers as well. On many occasions GOD has used the words of other believers to encourage me, admonish me, and instruct me in the ways that I should go to follow CHRIST. GOD has also used events and things that happen in the world around me daily to teach me HIS ways...I believe HE is always using life experience, people, and events to point us to JESUS and help us grow in our walk with HIM. These things are not a replacement for the WORD and should never conflict with HIS HOLY WORD but they can be tools HE uses to grow us and help us walk closer with HIM.
This is my understanding :)
God bless
mj
Hi Jimp
Brother Jimp wrote ///hi, ask the pharisees...jimp///
I will add to Jimps question and ask everyone,
according to scripture did the Pharisees believe their scriptures??
it depends exactly what you mean by saying sufisfent ,and if the sufishentcy is kept in contex with scripture its self ,,,scripture also says that he has givern some to be apostals ,propherts evenglests pasters teachers for work of the ministery and the edafing of the body of christ ,,, scriture is sufishent along with teachers preachers, proherts , ectra
paul was telling the evenglist and paster timothey to use scripture, expound it ,explan it ,use it to rebuke and reprove ,,
he wasnt telling timothey to go tell all the christans they dont need teachers or propherts ects , to go and get your bible just read it and reject all athority and teachers becasue scriture is all you need
no he wasnt saying that
but it is sufishent in the way of not needing any other philoshys or theorys or science or self help councleing ,or what ever the lost world can come up with
it is sufishent alright
blessings
proudpappa i dont think the pharisees believed the scripture ,they never undertood it
Q. Are the scriptures sufficuent?
A. YES!
Yet,in saying so,I do not negate the necessity of the Spirit of God.
Also,if the Spirit of God has given men wisdom to draw out truth from the Scripture,I will gladly and humbly listen and search the Scriptures to see if what they say or write is so or no. And this with the help of His Spirit.
Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Approach and be joined to this chariot." So Philip having run up, heard him reading aloud the prophet Isaiah, and he said, "So do you understand what you are reading?" Then he said, "For how could I unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip, having come up, to sit with him. Acts 8:29-31
He answered, "For how could I unless someone guides me?"
"Which shows that he was of an excellent spirit and temper; since instead of answering in a haughty and disdainful manner, as great men are too apt to do; and instead of charging Philip with, impertinence and insolence, in interrupting him whilst reading, and putting such a question to him, he expresses himself with great and uncommon modesty; with a sense and confession of his ignorance and incapacity and of the necessity and usefulness of the instructions of men, appointed of God to open and explain the Scriptures: and though he wanted such a guide, and could have been glad of one, yet he was willing to use all diligence himself in reading, that he, might, if possible, come at some knowledge of the truth; which was very commendable in him; and no doubt but the spirit he was in was much owing to his reading the word, and to the Spirit of God disposing his mind in this manner." - Gill
"He puts a fair question to him: Understandest thou what thou readest? Not by way of reproach, but with design to offer him his service. Note, What we read and hear of the word of God it highly concerns us to understand, especially what we read and hear concerning Christ; and therefore we should often ask ourselves whether we understand it or no: Have you understood all these things? Matt. 13:51. And have you understood them aright? We cannot profit by the scriptures unless we do in some measure understand them, 1 Cor. 14:16, 1 Cor. 14:17. And, blessed by God, what is necessary to salvation is easy to be understood." - Henry
"The eunuch in a sense of his need of assistance, desires Philip's company (Acts 8:31): “How can I understand, says he, except some one guide me? Therefore pray come up, and sit with me.” He speaks as one that had very low thoughts of himself, and his own capacity and attainments. He was so far from taking it as an affront to be asked whether he understood what he read, though Philip was a stranger, on foot, and probably looked mean (which many a less man would have done, and have called him an impertinent fellow, and bid him go about his business, what was it to him?) that he takes the question kindly, makes a very modest reply, How can I? We have reason to think he was an intelligent man, and as well acquainted with the meaning of scripture as most were, and yet he modestly confesses his weakness. Note, Those that would learn must see their need to be taught. The prophet must first own that he knows not what these are, and then the angel will tell him, Zech. 4:13. He speaks as one very desirous to be taught, to have some one to guide him. Observe, He read the scripture, though there were many things in it which he did not understand. Though there are many things in the scriptures which are dark and hard to be understood, nay, which are often misunderstood, yet we must not therefore throw them by, but study them for the sake of those things that are easy, which is the likeliest way to come by degrees to the understanding of those things that are difficult: for knowledge and grace grow gradually." - Henry
"Note, In order to our right understanding of the scripture, it is requisite we should have some one to guide us; some good books, and some good men, but, above all, the Spirit of grace, to lead us into all truth." - Henry
hi, very well composed. in business the greater the man ,the easier to talk to.in all things to do with Christ an christianity ,nothing happens until the Holy Spirit show up.You must be born from above.jimp tarry in jerusalem until...
Perhaps I should refine my question. Can a simple babe in Christ grow in tbe grace and knowledge of Jesus through reading and listening to tbe New Testament? Can a simple child of God do this without the need of commentaries or systematic theologies? Understanding tbeir dependence is on the Holy Spirit.
Bear.
hi, 40 years ago, i moved to baton rouge from new orleans to be a part of the great church i still call my home.i quit a great job in n.o. and found a job here working in a gas station. the owner wanted to be open at 5am and i was his man. he paid me for 2 years from 5 to 8 every day to read my bible. what a wonderful gift from God.i would only have 2 or 3 customers during that time.yes God can open the heart of man and fill him with truth with him only reading the Word.jimp
I also believe that God uses teachers to clarify things that our sin nature keeps us from learning.. Teachers were instituded by God also to help the Church grow, whether they be dead or alive..
As a father I teach my young boys (3 and 1 ) the scriptures but also teaching them systamaticlly about God
such as: God is Holy.. God made everthing...GOd is one; from the scriptures..
I hope to God that my teaching about God are not stale, because they are systamatic..
I think we must all agree that God uses the Holy Scripture, The Holy Spirit, and The Church to teach us about Himself ( plus an open heart).. If you take one of these out of the equation you run into problems
andy
by bearmaster on 2013/1/5 3:41:06
Perhaps I should refine my question. Can a simple babe in Christ grow in tbe grace and knowledge of Jesus through reading and listening to tbe New Testament? Can a simple child of God do this without the need of commentaries or systematic theologies? Understanding tbeir dependence is on the Holy Spirit.
Bear.
_______
I believe of course that a new Christian can grow in their faith and walk with the LORD by reading the Bible(although I would not limit it to just the New Testament) however I also know from my own walk that GOD does not limit HIMSELF to just using the Bible to mold and shape us into HIS imagine. GOD has used many other wonderful brothers and sisters testimonies in my life to help me, to encourage, admonish, and strengthen me in my daily walk. I also believe as another pointed out that in the WORD the LORD gives some to be teachers, elders, and apostle so HE must want us to be involved in one anthers lives daily. For example could I really learn what it means to be servant, putting another persons needs above my own if I were locked away daily just reading my new testament...I think I might have understanding of the concept of what JESUS is teaching but until I am out there in the world, living with others and actually putting those things into practice then they are just concepts. We are the body of CHRIST, net together to encourage, and admonish each other daily so that none would stumble into sin and I believe that there have been many times GOD has used another to come up in my life whether it be through a teaching, or a book, or even an email to show me sin in my life, and to help me grow in HIM. My take on how best to answer your question, yes GOD can and does use the BIBLE to teach us and grow us but I do not believe HE limits HIMSELF to that one tool so why should we limit ourselves then??? Honestly there are so many wonderful teachings here on this site and all around us that GOD has placed on the heart of men and women through out the years and I would not want to miss out on the things HE might have for me because I put HIM into a box by thinking that "only the New Testament" can be used to cause me to grow in HIM.
Again I remain open to hearing from HIM on these things. Thanks for the topic, just curious what brought up the question for you and what are your thoughts on the topic??
God Bless
mj
Hi MJ,
Thus thrrad was started as an off shoot if the systematic theology thread. Sister by now you know my thoughts on tbis topic. I do believe the scriptures are sufficient for one to grow in understanding of Jesus. I do believe a simple child of grace can learn about Jesus through the New Testament with dependence on tbe Holy Spirit. And yes. One most act on what they hear.
Bearmaster.
by bearmaster on 2013/1/5 6:43:33
Hi MJ,
Thus thrrad was started as an off shoot if the systematic theology thread. Sister by now you know my thoughts on tbis topic. I do believe the scriptures are sufficient for one to grow in understanding of Jesus. I do believe a simple child of grace can learn about Jesus through the New Testament with dependence on tbe Holy Spirit. And yes. One most act on what they hear.
Bearmaster.
__________
Greetings bear
I have not read through the other thread that you mentioned but I will stop by and check it out. Do you not see any value in other teachings that are shared in helping Christians grow in their faith and walk with CHRIST? I only ask because I thought I remembered that you had shared from some other teachings that you had found to be a blessing. I could be confusing you with another though...sorry if that is the case. I believe we agree that a Christian can and does benefit and grow by spending time in the BIBLE. Do you see that there can be opportunity for GOD to use other teachings to cause us to grow as well?
God bless
mj
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Who is parakleet? intercessor, consoler:--advocate, comforter. Who is sent to teach us all things? The Comforter, Holy Spirit, Teacher.
What good is the Word? 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
reproof; Strong's Greek Dictionary
1650. elegchos
Search for G1650 in KJVSL
elegcoV elegchos el'-eng-khos
from 1651; proof, conviction:--evidence, reproof.
correction; Strong's Greek Dictionary
1650. elegchos
Search for G1650 in KJVSL
elegcoV elegchos el'-eng-khos
from 1651; proof, conviction:--evidence, reproof.
instruction; Strong's Greek Dictionary
3809. paideia
Search for G3809 in KJVSL
paideia paideia pahee-di'-ah
from 3811; tutorage, i.e. education or training; by implication, disciplinary correction:--chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.
righteousness; Strong's Greek Dictionary
1343. dikaiosune
Search for G1343 in KJVSL
dikaiosunh dikaiosune dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay
from 1342; equity (of character or act); specially (Christian) justification:--righteousness.
All these works are done by the Comforter, which is to bring us to the understanding the now, that we have Christ rebirthed in us, and the Scriptures are Christ alive and put into our hearts and minds by bringing the mind of Christ to our teaching and understanding of who we are in Christ.
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Without the Mind of Christ, The life of Christ, the Faith of Christ, The Grace of Christ, the Wisdom of Christ, the Righteousness of Christ, The Sanctification of Christ, the Redemption of Christ, and on and on, the Word alone is not understood by the World.
God's Word will never return void, but it is by His decree that we by His Holy Spirit and the born again life of His Son in us that we can do nothing without this revelation from above and in us.
Philippians 4:6-8 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
It takes the Living Word in us Himself that the Word is alive in us that we understand the Scriptures unto the Glory of God our Father.
1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
He is our life in the Word. This how powerful the Word is;
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Who's Sword is used to put The Spirit of Christ in us and teach us the Mind of Christ that is in us also, which if we don't have we are none of His.?
In Christ: Phillip
Blaine, you wrote:
Thus thrrad was started as an off shoot if the systematic theology thread.
NO?!?...really?.....sorry, a lil sarcasm....and i'm not "blaming" YOU, but we all saw how well that thread went...i do think it was one of the most heart rending threads i've seen here.
Blaine, my feeling is this, its between you and the LORD, you can lead a mule to water, but you cant make it drink.
head knowledge about God has been going on for centuries......and head knowledge is head knowledge, heart knowledge is heart knowledge, ego and pride are ego and pride. Its like rotting meat smelled afar....you dont need a PhD to discern the rank odor of rotting flesh......your nose TELLS YOU that truth....much the same way that Jesus said those who are near to the Kingdom of God, will have the faith of a child....and what is the faith of a child, a child is absolutely DEPENDENT, hence when an "adult", usually a parent says, 'dinner will be served shortly', the child BELIEVES.....it doesnt need "PROOF", the child KNOWS the parent loves it, and wants to feed it, so it is with God. i know God loves me, i'm his child, i believe Him, in ALL His Promises......."doubt" doesnt even creep into my heart, and THAT in itself is a Gift, the Gift of Faith.....now for me to explain this Gift to ANYONE, would be like trying to descibe the smell of wood smoke....what do i say?
uhhh, its smells like wood smoke.
i pray this thread doesnt go awry like the other.
and brothagary, you made this rash statement:
proudpappa i dont think the pharisees believed the scripture ,they never undertood it
what do you mean?
maybe you should read Deuteronomy 13...or consider what Gamaliel said to those who wanted to stomp the disciples for preaching the Ressurected Messiah, before you write as such.....and i DO write that in humility to you.
Hi brothagary
I asked 'according to scripture did the Pharisees believe their scriptures??'
brothagary wrote //proudpappa i dont think the pharisees believed the scripture ,they never undertood it//
That is the right answer, Jesus said that they did not believe the scriptures. You are right had they believed the scripture they would have understood it but instead they believed the Jewish Orthodoxy of their day wich had done gymnastics with the scriptures. Had they truly believed the scripture they would not have been blind to that reality.
calm down neil your staring to freak out bro take a few deep breths , i was answering a question from our brother pappa ,,,there was no rashness or malis,,,i felt i did not want pappa to think i was ignoring him
brother please don let your jewish roots casue you to misjudg my intentions regarding the pharrisees
blessings
Phillip I believe you have brought some very rich truth in your post for us to meditate on. One thing that did grip me was Jesus is the Word. And his words are the Word. One can not separate the two. Thus can it be said the more of his words you have in you the more of Jesus you have in you? Or am I sipping on some Arkansas shine assuming this?
Bearmaster
Don't mean to butt in, but the new testament tells us that we should be encouraging, rebuking, exhorting, etc(2 Tim 4:2, Titus 2:15, Heb 3:13, etc)
So then the Word is sufficient yes, AND the word says that when fellowship is available we should seek fellowship to help us grow in Him. So if you believe the word to be sufficient then you will seek out biblical council.
That's my 2c anyways. Love you guys
Hi Bear,
You wrote; """ One can not separate the two. Thus can it be said the more of his words you have in you the more of Jesus you have in you? Or am I sipping on some Arkansas shine assuming this?"""
I would say you cannot have parts and peaces of The Person of Jesus Christ in you, He is whole and He that is in us is One. I would say the more we in our soul/mind have the words and understanding of what He says and is, the more our soul/mind will agree with our Spirit which is Christ.
1 Peter 1:21-23 Who by Him do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
So it takes the Spirit of Christ in us to be able to purify our souls, by obeying the truth in compliance and and submission through the Comforter Teacher that Jesus said He would teach us all things whatsoever Jesus has said.
We have all of Christ in us, we are being conformed to that image by the Holy Spirit Teacher that reveals the truth of the Word in our soul/minds bringing us into conformity to the Mind of Christ.
So it can be said that we have all of Christ in us and the more of His Word taught us and revealed to us, are we conformed to that image, which is ordained by God.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
His likeness is what the Word accomplishes in our soul/mind, His Spirit is by rebirthing in us, which is eternal life and complete by He that is in us which is our Glory.
Ro 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
In Christ: Phillip
calm down neil your staring to freak out bro take a few deep breths , i was answering a question from our brother pappa ,,,there was no rashness or malis,,,i felt i did not want pappa to think i was ignoring himbrother please don let your jewish roots casue you to misjudg my intentions regarding the pharrisees
blessings
why does your entire response ring wrong with me?
first, i was totally calm, when i wrote it, even to conclude it with "and i DO write that in humility to you", so your response to me, "your staring to freak out bro take a few deep breths" is the antithesis of humility, its assumption mixed in with more than bit of arrogance, telling me to "take a few deep breathes".
that would be the same as me telling you to do some book learning, and give this spelling business the attention it deserves.././...which i would not do.
secondly, what you term as my "jewish roots", just underlines how you dont understand. i have no "jewish roots"....i AM a Jew who follows Jesus, and please dont use the Pauline "there is no jew or gentile" out of context, as SO MANY are wont to do.
Once a Jew apprehends that Jesus is Messiah, they do NOT STOP being a Jew, and anyone who says this is a liar, and does not grasp WHY Jesus came down in His Earthly ministry, nor went to the Cross, nor shed the blood of the LAST Passover Lamb....it is because of this LIE, and 1700 years of hellish "church" history, that it is so hard to preach Christ and Him crucified to the Jews.
Thanks to this LIE, a Jew believes that to believe Jesus is the long awaited Messiah, Jews actually believe they can no longer be Jews, but must become "christians". turn their backs on Yahweh, and i can tell you in no uncertain terms, most observant Jews would rather DIE, and all too many "christians" in their inquistions and forced conversions have been all too eager to see this happen.
Rest assured, these children of darkness will have to answer before a wrathful God at the Judgement Seat....and answer they WILL.
and as it turns out, i agree with almost everything Bearmaster Blaine has spooled out in these two threads.i said nothing because i have no desire to spend time bandying words with tightly wound up religionists, who have not the courage or intimacy with God to query Him, in loving trust, but the safe and sure course to parrot mere men, which in the final analysis is idolatry. But what can one expect from romanist ground plowed up, generation after generation....its safe, it sure, and it means you'll fit right in, and be approved by other men, who dare not make waves...perfect example being Martin Luther, starting strong and annointed, taking on the roman institution, and finishing off with his sulfur stinking tretise entitled "On Jews and their Lies".
i'm not going to be in the business of handicapping somebodies chances of heaven or hell, but seeing that hitlers nazi lutheran church used "On Jews and thir lies" as a main tretise to buttress their murder of 6 million Jews, ill give Martin Luther a 50/50 chance.
Blaine, you speak out as the LORD leads, dont worry if your most popular kid in the church square. Better to have the crowd against you and the LORD with you any day of the week.
hi, i received a great deal of wisdom and love by going to a messianic service every friday night for over a year. the bible was writen by jews(seed line) to jews until pauls writings. and most today do not understand or know the culture and beauty of the jewish people.i loved that time in my life.jimp
Brothers the gospel goes to the Jew first then to tbe Gentiles. Paul has clearly laid out In Romans 9 -11 that God has not abandoned Israel but is calling forth a remnant out of that nation as out of the nations of tbe world. Indeed he is building up that remnant of Jew and Gentile beluever into the one new man which us tbe church, his bride. But then that would be a discussion for a whole new thread.
As I have pondeted this topic and what each has brought to this thread I have wondered if perhaps we should not think more in terms of the word of God and not just the scriptures themselves. Now I believe the scriptures are the word of God. But the word of God seems to be far more encompassing. That being Jesus is the word of God. And his words are the word of God. Thus I ask again can Jesus being tbe word of God be separated from his words. They seemed to be intertwined.
In Revelation we read the saints were martyred for the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. Is this for tbe book only or him who is the word. Rich food here to chew in.
Also Phillip is bringing some fresh mana from his post. I am having to read them reflectively. Marvelous insights from God.
Bearmaster.
neil i was being light hearted a little sarcastic
there was no aragence what so ever in my heart , that would be only your usumption ,your are intitle to that
brother by all means tell me to go get a education ,but do it with the same light heartedness ,i wont take it the wrong way
brother all i ment was you are jewish ,,nothing else, you must believe that ,it was just a way of saying your are jewish , that i understand from previous posts ,,that is all tthere was to me saying that
why would i even concider to use paul statment about there is nether jew nor gentil ,it never crossed my mind ,it had absalutly nothing to do with why i said what i said ,,,brother that would be an ausumption againg
brother is no point in me talking about what you said after that ,,because i never said anything about a jew becomeing a gentile , i wasnt thinking in any way shape or form
brother are you saying im a wound up religenous,that has no itimacy with god ,,,,,,,brother if you saying that about me ,that would be yet another asumption ,,because brother in all gentelness ,,you dont know the mercy and grace the lord jesus has showen me ,,
i dont no why you would even concider me an iolarter ,would you explain how you come to this conlusion ,,
after all that is said ,,,i think the bible is verry clear that he has givern the body of christ teachers and pasters for the work of the ministery
can the foot say to the hand i have no need of you
god bless us
Galatians 3:22-29 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Galatians 3:28
The apostle's design is to show the common right of believers, of every nation, condition, and sex, and to encourage the Gentiles, and demolish the pride, vanity, and boasting of the Jews, their men especially, who valued themselves upon these "three" very things which the apostle here makes no account of; as that they were Israelites and not Gentiles, freemen and not servants, men and not women; and in their public prayers they give thanks to God in this form,
"blessed be the Lord our God, the King of the world, that he hath made me an Israelite; blessed be the Lord, etc. who hath not made me a Gentile; blessed be the Lord, etc. who hath not made me a "servant"; blessed be the Lord, etc. who hath not made me a "woman";''
instead of which last the woman say,
"blessed be the Lord, etc. who hath made me as he pleased5:''
for ye are all one in Christ Jesus; being alike chosen in him, united to him, redeemed by his blood, justified by his righteousness, regenerated by his Spirit, the children of God by faith in him, and heirs of the same grace and glory, they make, both Jews and Gentiles, bond and free, male and female, as it were but one new man in him; one body, of which he is the head, one spiritual seed of Abraham and of Christ. end:
As man sees' I am an Oklahoman, an American, and Caucasian.
In Scripture, I am seen as a Gentile, a Heathen, or a Greek, possibly.
In the kingdom I am a son of God, a child of God, His offspring, an heir to the kingdom with Jesus Christ God's Son, I have Christ birthed in me by the Father, and I am now a seed of Abraham, "not as seeds" but the Seed, Jesus Christ the promise. I am a Christ person. I was first called a Christian in Antioch. Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
I am a Christ-one first to God and then by men all that my earthly birth contains. I read that in the dispersion there were many jews in Denmark of which my ancestors are from, I don't know if any of them were Jews or not, my last name means Peters-son or a son of Peter. But that does not matter, for now I am a Christ-one, simply a Christian.
In Christ: Phillip
ok, i get ya...i understand......y'know this mode of communicating is fraught with all kinds of pitfalls.
you cant HEAR a person speak...i CANNOT LOOK into your heart.....we dont KNOW each other face to face......many many pitfalls.
the only reason i brought up Paul's, "neither Jew nor Gentile" reference is that its been zinged my way MORE than a few times, forgive my assumption, and please forgive any ill tone i might seem to use, or any accusations....because i really dont believe that about YOU...
when i start to get twiggy,is when folks tell me to "calm down"....or "why you so emotional?".....or, as you said,."take a deep breath"....ect....which i KNOW you didnt mean in offense......but these dark days, i DO get emotional, my heart is grieved on SO MANY levels, both personal, and looking at the state of the world, or at the state of the Body of Christ......
that said, i did not intend on being nasty,or insulting about ANY way you write....i understand you just fine, please forgive me for any insult or ill spoken word in that regard, as i esteem you and all men higher than myself.
walk with me for just a second, and look thru my eyes....here i am, not only born PHYSICALLY a Jew, but also as a child and young man raised in the Faith, in the synagogue, as a Jew.
Now, as i testify that Jesus is Messiah ALREADY COME, that His Blood cleanses US from all sin, and the Door to Yahweh has been opened by Jesus for Gentiles, to be considered Sons of Abraham, the man of Faith......do you realize that my own people, those of the tribe of my flesh......consider me a rip roaring apostate?....THEY dont even consider me a Jew....not that i would even CARE ONE WHIT, the opinion of fallen man, nor have any calling to GO BACK to the synagogue....even to do stealth 'evangelism"...God has not made that call on me.......nor has He called me into what can be termed a "messianic Jewish" synagogue (slash "church)......which is a half and half cultural construct in many ways, God bless the saints who worship in such an ekklesia.....i dont feel at "home" there either......so then we have the various denominations of the New Testament church.
MANY MANY denominations,each with their own particular "traditions", or "theologies"....."what we believe(s)"...etc.."some follow Calvin", "some follow Finney"....do you get me?....it's almost like a copy of a synagogue........man TRIES to institutionalize,and organize THE BODY OF CHRIST and unless you "yes and amen" the ABC's of the "what we believe(s) of the various denomonations....forget it.....either you keep your mouth shut, and "play along with", hide behind a pillar, or sit frozen in a pew....just a passive walking wallet, to drop a check into the offering plate, so some seminary trained , properly credentialed, "ordained" hireling ...i mean pastor, can give "HIS flock", a nicely prepared 3 point 27 to 45 minute long sermon to a group of passive listeners.....and i'm not even covering the once vibrant "mainline" denominations......i'll get to them in a second...i'm speaking now of what can be called "evangelicals"....those who traffic in "decisions"....."with all heads bowed, and every eye closed". etc......i do bless God for every sin laden soul that comes to Jesus....dont mistake me, but we've now got into a pro-forma, by the numbers "religion"...complete with its own vocabulary, "christianese", so that other members of the club both can identify each other, but also maintain "order" AND exclusivity........"evangelicals" also can serve "caesar" as well come election time, and they dont even NEED a 'church', when a high profile "parachurch" will do just as well....these are high profile media types, who go on constantly about "taking back America for Christ"...or "having a Biblical worldview"....to do that, they need equally loud, high profile targets.....such as the vaunted "homosexual agenda"....or the "liberal media bias".
(btw, its a dream relationship, because the "homosexual agenda" the "liberal media elite", the ACLU, love to be in the crosshairs of "dominionist christian reconstructionist" evangelical parachurches, because this "battle" ensures that both get the attention they crave, because "attention", equals publicity, equals 'coverage', which equals a constant stream of MONEY, whether it be thru donations, all tax deductible, it can be the small donor, driven to fear and angst by the constant prattle over the radio, TV or internet...or large donors, whose real motivation is commercial, business driven advantage given to those who get ACCESS to elected officials, or unelected perma-government types in the national security/ military state we live in....BIG money for the taking there, and dont think for a second these multi-media "parachurches" dont want to grab every penny they can lay their hands on, while easing their seared consciences with the delusion,they're doing it all for Jesus, because after all, we have to "take back america for Christ")
i stay as far as i possibly can get from this twisted enterprise.....just as i stay as far as i can from the once vibrant mainline protestant denominations, who believe in THEIR current delusions, that God is "okay" with ordaining homosexual clergy, "okay" with the spectacle that is called "high religion", yet is empty and devoid of the Holy Spirit.....but make sure you dress well for Sunday service, and please sign the petition out by the door calling for the denominations financial divestiture of any company that does business with Israel, because after all, the UN says "Zionism is racism".....and it is Israel that stands against any peace in the middle east.....dont we all know THAT?!?....and by the way, right next to the petition are invitations to Jim and John's upcoming "Life Commitment" ceremony, which will be led by pastor Barbara in the basement fellowship hall, with a potluck meal to follow this 'ceremony'.....ALL INVITED!!!
i'm sorry to go on like such, but as the LORD leads everything i wrote above, is true and happening now....much to my grief. oh course, in many aspects, i'm making generalizations. and not EVERY SINGLE church is either a rabid fleshly babylonian dominionist american imperial hell hole, nor a backslidden, sin soaked main line sham, but i know this, that right now in America, the church is in disarray....division.....scandal,....and for years has been regarded by outsiders as justa place where self righteous hypocrites go to hide on Sundays.
its that bad....just now as i was closing my eyes, praying what to write in conclusion, what we "can do", i had a vision of my bare back getting ready to recieve the scourge,that old roman whip, where they would imbed old pieces of metal and stone.....its what they opened Jesus' back with....it was just a 10 second vision.
Because i dont know what to say anymore, or do....EXCEPT what God Himself laid on my heart, have a 20 by 20 very simple wooden bldg put on my front pasture as a house of prayer, ask Jesus to Pastor these prayer meetings and to send other desperate, hungry followers of Messiah to be of one accord and JUST PRAY, until our desperate hunger is answered. God is not going to let this all go on much longer, the time grows short, and there are thousands of nuclear tipped missiles just waiting in their silo's, ready for release....it could all happen in the next five minutes, we've killed 40 million babies in this nation, you know their blood crys out to Him.
is this the first time you ever used Gill's commentary?
the prayer Gill chose to use, and referenced is from am ultra othrodox(haredi) siddur, siddur being a prayer book. non-canonical.
as far as i can tell, Gill was the only theologian to use this Haredi prayer to expound on that portion of Galatians.
i'm just wondering why YOU chose to use Gill's commentary complete with a prayer, i have never prayed in MY LIFE...or ever even heard of....some message you wish to convey?....as i've had Galatians 3:27-28 hurled at me many times.....do you believe i'm conferring on myself that i am above any one here, or more esteemed?
if so, you are sadly in error. but if you desire to "demolish the pride, vanity, and boasting of the Jews", as Gill wrote by quoting that obscure prayer, i have ten times the amount of degradations visited upon the Jews BY "christians" either via prayer or the "Oath More Judaico"...i'll just stick with the "Oath More Judaico", which is a LOT, and MAYBE, just maybe, you can get an idea WHY its so hard for a GENUINE Bible believing, Jesus filled Christian to witness the Gospel to a Jew:
The Oath More Judaico or Jewish Oath was a special form of oath, accompanied by certain ceremonies and often intentionally humiliating or dangerous, that Jews were required to take in European courts of law until the 20th century. More Judaico is Latin for "on/by the Jewish custom."There were, however, some older laws that prescribed certain practices intended to mock Jews in court. These examples illustrated the kinds of humiliating rituals that accompanied the taking of the oath:
Byzantine Empire, 10th century: the Jew would wear a girdle of thorns around his loins, stand in water, and swear by "Barase Baraa" (Bereshit Bara), so that if he spoke untruth, he would be swallowed by the earth just like Dathan and Abiram in Numbers 16:1–27.
Arles (c. 1150): a wreath of thorns would be hung on the swearer's neck, others would grovel at his knees, and a thorn branch five ells in length would be pulled "between his loins" while he swore and called down upon himself all the curses of the Torah.
Swabia (13th century): the Jew would stand on the hide of a sow or a bloody lamb.
Silesia (1422): the Jew would stand on a three-legged stool and have to pay a fine each time he fell, finally losing his case if he fell four times.
Dortmund: the Jew would be fined each time he halted in repeating the oath.
Vrbové, Hungary (1517): the Jew would stand barefooted and swear with his face turned to the east, holding the Pentateuch in his hand.
Breslau (c. 1455): the Jew would stand bareheaded and pronounce the name of Yahweh.
there's much more Philip.
Brothers I think the thread has gotten off track. The original question was are tbe Scriptures sufficient for one's growth in Christ Jesus. Might I ask can one come to Bible with onky the Holy Spirit as his teacher and grow in tbe things of Christ?
Bearmaster
Hello, Hezwelling, no it is not the first time I have used Gills elligance in writing, for I am uneducated as it comes to pros. By the time I was 50, I had only read one book, "Thirty Seconds over Tokyo".
I use many commentaries and concordances and Greek and Hewbrew studies, and am always seeking the revelation of
God in all I put on this forum, when it is me, its a mess.
I understand a little of what a Jew must go through to follow Jesus Christ and I must say I am jealous, for The Word of God says We are to Glory in our trials and tribulations and imfermities. All I know is that I am no longer what I use to be, ethnic, origin, what ever I might be labeled, I am now by the Christ that is birthed in me a son of God, His offspring, I am no longer labeled by what man wants to see and make judgement of, for no man can judge me and I judge no one. I do rejoice in that God has seen in His Grace and Wisdom to bring you, a Jew into His Kingdom, the same way He has me. I marvel that God would bring any into His KIngdom. There is not enough ground for me to fall on or knees capable of nealing, for me to rejoice in my salvation and yours.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Co 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
2Co 10:17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
Jesus came to His own and You Have Received Him.
You were His own and praise God, now, so am I.
No one can come to the Word without the Holy Spirit who seals us into Christ and then bring us into His image, conforming by Word and Truth.
In Christ, both of us: Phillip
no worrys neil ,i waas going to say what you said about comunacation via keyboard ,,it is surely not the best way ,and misunderstandings will accour ,,iv defienity misunderstood ,,,,,,,i no what you mean and i see what u are seeing in the sin soaked liberal church
blessings
Only Jesus Christ is sufficient! All the scriptures point to Him.
On another thought...
There are many who spend their time teaching the word and then there are many who spend their time hearing the word taught.... but a very small number who do the word!
Many of the synods and councils and thier divers and strange doctrines that they created has done nothing but cause divisions and blood shed. the worship of theology has done nothing but fill the belly with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
William Law, the English theological writer (1686-1761). indicted the state church of his time for being marred by: “(1) intellectualism—‘the direct mental assent to a sum of doctrines’; (2) formalism—‘battalions upon battalions of unbelieving believers’; and (3) Pharisaism—‘a herd of hypocritical clergy that ignore the Christianity they were hired to preach.’” (Kierkegaard , Provocations , p. 11) http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/calvarymessenger-theologians-review.html
bearmaster wrote:
1. Perhaps I should refine my question. Can a simple babe in Christ grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus through reading and listening to the New Testament? Can a simple child of God do this without the need of commentaries or systematic theologies? Understanding their dependence is on the Holy Spirit.2. The original question was, are the Scriptures sufficient for one's growth in Christ Jesus. Might I ask can one come to Bible with only the Holy Spirit as his teacher and grow in the things of Christ?
Being new to the Lord (late 70’s), I really didn’t know what a commentary was until one day at work a Pharisee tried to tell me that speaking in tongues wasn’t in the Bible BECAUSE Matthew Henry said it wasn’t in the Bible! I was like who is M.H.? (I have never looked up to see if what he said about M.H. was correct or not. I’m not putting down M.H. I’m just relating what the Pharisee said that he said.)
I learned much sitting at the feet of Jesus during this time and I praise God that He led me to a little church that believed in and taught the freedom of the Spirit instead of a certain set of denominational rules and dogma. I will always praise Him for that!!
God bless you brother,
Lisa
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