Gun control debate and what may lay ahead?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/09/vice-president-to-meet-with-gun-safety-groups/

The above news story talks about how the president might use executive action as a part of the governments response to gun control. As I have been reading on this topic and reading about all these people buying guns because of it I almost feel a sense of dread about what could happen if the government does attempt to force people to give up their guns?? Just wonder if anyone else was following this story and your thoughts? I for one am praying that God's will be done in all of this other than that I don't know what the answer is.

rdg

I don't follow Gun Control to closely but I do remember reading a quote made by Hitler "To conquer a nation first disarms its citizens" Am I going out buying guns? No but I know many people who own guns that aren't going to just hand them over and I know even more police officers who wouldn't dare enforce a law that took guns away for no reason.

rdg,

This gun ownership issue is merely a tip in the iceberg. The gov is rapidly working to disarm the citizens in many ways and most have nothing to do with gun ownership. The second amendment gives Americans the right to bear arms - do google search on this. Because of the school shooting recently this is galvanizing the anti-gun forces to outlaw certain weapons.

What will we do? Live like we did before. My husband and I do not own any guns although according to gov records I own quite a few because I signed so our boys could have them for hunting reasons. But at present we have none in the house and do not plan on getting any. We believe our physical lives are in God's hands and we do not need any weapons to protect it.

To live our lives free from gov interference is becoming history. Be prepared for more restrictions in how you can live your faith. I get the sense that how we work or when we work will come under federal scrutiny...just be prepared for the worse and expect it get worse yet. It is not a matter of if but when.

Sorry, rdg, that I can not be more optimistic... but we are entering into an era in which our faith will be sorely tested: will I stand up for principle or will I compromise and cave in. Here are some issues:

1. Nurses have been fired because they refused the flu immunization.

2. Girl told in TX she must accept the chip in her ID.

3. Hobby Lobby will be fined for not providing medical insurance that will pay for abortifacant meds for their employees.

4. Illegal to sell raw milk.

5. If you own an inn and have chickens, you are not allowed to use their eggs in this inn's kitchen.

6. In the UK Christians have no right to refuse to work on Sunday because of religious convictions. (Wonder how this law will apply to Muslims's holy days.?)

rdg, things are getting stupider all the time...while some of these prohibition may not be widespread yet, they are issues citizens have had to deal with in the course of business.

Take care and stay close to the LORD because this is the ONLY way you will survive the coming persecution. Remember it starts in little things and as they progress they will become bolder - after people's will and power has been broken. And God sees it all, do not forget that.

God bless.

ginnyrose

ginnyrose said:

"Take care and stay close to the LORD because this is the ONLY way you will survive the coming persecution..."

So true ginnyrose. The persecution is coming - not if; but when.

I am suprised that the Scriptures have not been outlawed yet. It will be!

It is labeled as a hate book full of violence and wrath.

Freedom of the press will not matter when they begin to censor the Holy Bible.

When you join the military you are sworn to FOREVER, uphold and "defend the Constitution of The United States Of America" against enemy's both foreign and domestic. Only question here is do we have to right "according to the Constitution to own/possess a firearm?

If only the North would have allowed the south to succeed more American Lives would have been spared than what any other War Cost and the Blue States could have had their socialism and the red states could have preserved their freedom.

The courts have already ruled on this issue many times, what part of the 2nd amendment don't these folks understand? I will give up my gun one bullet at a time.

Obama and his banker masters want us disarmed before the economy collapses and will stop at nothing to disarm us. Obama knows that his policies will soon collapse the economy, and he does not want 80,000,000 plus armed citizens ticked off and looking for him.

Biden says they can just go around congress again and just use executive order to pass gun control,uncle Joe and Obama better be careful, or they may have a revolt in America. They are not kings,we still have a constitution even though the Obama administration wants it gone and rendered useless, these people work for us and they are acting like rulers of some third world country. Wake up people these guys are more dangerous than so called assault rifles or any gun, we are losing our freedom, the people messed up electing this anti American administration, our freedom is at risk!

I live in rural Kansas and I will say this again you will be hard pressed to find anyone that will actually enforce the gun control laws should they get passed. You can't disarm a citizen if the police don't enforce the law. Maybe making it harder to buy a gun but again I live in rural Kansas everyone around here already owns like 3 to 5 guns already and Kansas is a mild one when it comes to rocking the boat on gun control don't even get me started on how hard it will be to disarm Texas and Oklahoma.

The second amendment that enshrines the responsibility of American citizens to keep themselves as a well armed militia ends with a phrase. It states that right, "Shall not be infringed upon". THAT is the current key.

The Obama administration has stated this week that they may well bypass congress and the constitution by enacting gun control through "Executive Order". For those unaware this has been the weapon of choice more and more for presidents who want to bypass congress. However, this case is in a league of its own as the Obama administration is threatening to directly violate the second amendment to the constitution in his action.

In essence, the Constitution clearly contradicts their desire for gun control. Congress will not pass the laws to tighten them as it is political suicide. It is one of the key reason the mid terms in Clinton's presidency were the largest landslide victories ever for his opposition. Folks who voted with Clinton's gun control measures were voted out en masse at the next midterms. That is not a lesson lost on current house members regardless of the party they are part of.

So a few factoids-

1. The Obama administration can not take guns as the constitution strictly and specifically forbids it.
2. The congress will not vote in such a way to do so. They could not enact a law overriding the constitution either.
3. The current president has indicated he may use "Executive Orders" to do this. Executive Orders are just "laws" the president makes up on his own because he can't get them passed for whatever reason. So..since he wants it he just says it is so and hires armed government officials to enforce it.

That leaves us here. If the Obama administration attempts to enact gun control, seizure, or registration contrary to the constitution there will be blood all over the streets of America. Many, many, many Americans will not allow the moving from a Constitutional government to a dictatorship.

I, as a follower of Christ, do not think I could take up arms in such a case. Only to protect my life, safety of another from harm, or invasion of my homeland would cause me to take up arms. However, that is not the case with a great many Americans. If there is an attempt to "go emperor" by Obama by usurping the second amendment then many Americans will meet the attempted implementation of that with deadly force.

Perhaps this is the way that much of the forseen fall of America will happen. Maybe it comes by a nation divided that goes up in the flames of civil war. I pray not....I pray cooler heads and Constitutional government prevail.

If Obama were to go this route I would also expect some congressmen to start immediate impeachment and treason proceedings against him. I fear that if Obama does "go emperor" on this issue he will have personally ushered in the end game for the U.S. I am unsure at this point but there are many who think this has been the Obama administrations plan from the beginning.

"If only the North would have allowed the south to succeed more American Lives would have been spared than what any other War Cost and the Blue States could have had their socialism and the red states could have preserved their freedom."

Please tell me that you are being sarcastic, please. Please tell me you are not placing "american" lives above the lives of countless men and woman, who were created by God, that would have been subject to slavery.

I'm having a hard time understanding the rhetoric coming from folk on this subject. I know I'm a Brit and so I'm looking on the outside, but really 'y'all need to wake up and smell the coffee!'

If you belong to Christ your citizenship is heavenly, not the USA and your alliegence is to Him and not the constitution.

Why are some 'Christians' so concerned about the right to 'bear arms'? Do you want to be part of an armed militia? Would you be comfortable with thousands of ungodly 'crazy' militia activists controlling the American streets with guns etc?

Don't you realise that the USA has more freedom for Christians than probably any other country? That's why you have all the crazy money preachers and cults allowed to flourish in your land. Rather than fight for your constitutional rights, use this freedom to live the gospel and impact the nation for revival! You know, once upon a time there was not one nation that was 'Christian' and had any godly constitution, but the gospel changed those pagan societies. Just think what you could do in such a much better starting place than then!

***Solomon101 said: "Only to protect my life, safety of another from harm, or invasion of my homeland would cause me to take up arms."
Ony in the USA woud you hear a Christian say this.

Now about the 2nd ammendment, so it says you have the right to bear arms. Does nobody have the right to define 'what arms'? If not,then there is a whole arms industry out there where you can buy everything from RPGs to land mines etc. Why not let every citizen chose whatever arms they would like!
So being sensible, why not ban all automatic and semi automatic assault guns and let the hunters have their shot guns and riffles for legitimate use.

HezWelling.... I am not right wing, i am not left wing, i'm not even a "christian"...i'm a Jew who follows Messiah Jesus, which i regard as a miracle, and a Gift from Jesus....to open my eyes, and walk in New Covenant Reality.

Well you might be interested in this:
Three primary goals drive the Wisconsin-based human-rights group Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO):

Destroy so-called “gun control” (code words for disarming innocent people).

Expose the misguided notions that lead people to seek out so-called “gun control”.

Encourage Americans to understand and defend all of the Bill of Rights for all citizens. The Second Amendment is the “Guardian” of the Bill of Rights.

Founded by Jews in 1989, JPFO initially aimed at educating the Jewish community about the historical evils that Jews have suffered when they have been disarmed. JPFO has always welcomed people of all religious beliefs who share a common goal of opposing and reversing victim-disarmament policies while advancing liberty for all. It was the brainchild of Aaron Zelman (1946 - 2010), a leading national civil-rights activist.

Hi Heydave

Heydave wrote/// Now about the 2nd ammendment, so it says you have the right to bear arms. Does nobody have the right to define 'what arms'? If not,then there is a whole arms industry out there where you can buy everything from RPGs to land mines etc. Why not let every citizen chose whatever arms they would like!
So being sensible, why not ban all automatic and semi automatic assault guns and let the hunters have their shot guns and riffles for legitimate use.///

The second amendment was not implemented so as to protect the right to hunt it was implemented so as to keep the Government accountable , and the ability for the people to succeed from a corrupt government

Dave, if we are just going to give up rights to Americans provided in the US Constitution by the 2nd Amendment, lets not stop there, lets do away with the First Amendment..Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Trust me this one will be next, and on and on and on...till we have "NO" rights.

“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson

Please tell me that you are being sarcastic, please. Please tell me you are not placing "american" lives above the lives of countless men and woman, who were created by God, that would have been subject to slavery.

Fun fact the civil war wasn't started because of slavery but "State's Rights" Slavery was really secondary to this one issue.

Hi mgulder thankyou so much I did not even catch what was written untill you responded

you answered correctly ///Fun fact the civil war wasn't started because of slavery but "State's Rights" Slavery was really secondary to this one issue.///

Very true statement about the primary reason for the civil war.

On a related note, there is a really interesting article in World Net Daily today dealing with Sheriffs departments standing up against federal agents in matters relating to the citizenry of their respective counties.

hi hoohoou

I wrote "If only the North would have allowed the south to succeed more American Lives would have been spared than what any other War Cost and the Blue States could have had their socialism and the red states could have preserved their freedom."

hoohoou wrote ///Please tell me that you are being sarcastic, please. Please tell me you are not placing "american" lives above the lives of countless men and woman, who were created by God, that would have been subject to slavery.///

What the Civil War did was increase the Federal governments power ,It was a war that cost more American lives than any other war in history and increased racism through out the south for many years to come. The outcome was that the black slaves had no education no skills no jobs, no where to go but the citys where they where pushed to the slums of the city creating the Black ghetto which is still today very difficult for them to escape had the North just allowed the South to succeed the slaves would have through time been educated and integrated into society,

The war was not about Slavery, Abraham Lincoln's first inaugural address proves this, He supported the Corwin amendment to the Constitution, The south was fed up with the federal government over stepping their boundries they wanted to succeed regardless of the slave issue

hi hoohoou

I wrote "If only the North would have allowed the south to succeed more American Lives would have been spared than what any other War Cost and the Blue States could have had their socialism and the red states could have preserved their freedom."

hoohoou wrote ///Please tell me that you are being sarcastic, please. Please tell me you are not placing "american" lives above the lives of countless men and woman, who were created by God, that would have been subject to slavery.///

What the Civil War did was increase the Federal governments power ,It was a war that cost more American lives than any other war in history and increased racism through out the south for many years to come. The outcome was that the black slaves had no education no skills no jobs, no where to go but the citys where they where pushed to the slums of the city creating the Black ghetto which is still today very difficult for them to escape had the North just allowed the South to succeed the slaves would have through time been educated and integrated into society,

The war was not about Slavery, Abraham Lincoln's first inaugural address proves this, He supported the Corwin amendment to the Constitution, The south was fed up with the federal government over stepping their boundries they wanted to succeed regardless of the slave issue

had the North just allowed the South to succeed the slaves would have through time been educated and integrated into society

speculative at best! have u been learning history at the feet of HK Edgerton or 'sons of confederate vets'? this is the type of lies that are pushed by the modern kkk and neo-nazi groups like storm-front. the civil war had everything to do w/ slavery. have u never heard of the 'border-wars' and the fights over 'free-state' and 'slave-state' that existed 20 yrs b4 the war? have u never heard of john brown? hariette tubman? maybe fredrick douglas? lincoln made it absolutely about slavery in 1863 w/ the signing of the amancipation proclamation, but it had everything to do w/ slavery b4 that.

i can not believe sum1 would come to a website like sermonindex and propogate these revisionist history lies used by hate groups like the kkk and storm-front. its almost as if u pasted word for word from those groups. shameful.

yes the war was about states rights, but the right the states were concerned with was SALVERY. there would not have ever been a war if there had not been slavery.

"The war was not about Slavery, Abraham Lincoln's first inaugural address proves this, He supported the Corwin amendment to the Constitution, The south was fed up with the federal government over stepping their boundries they wanted to succeed regardless of the slave issue"

The reason is far less important than the result. I would gladly trade a portion of my freedom so that others could attain a vast amount more. And lets not forget that our Faith grew under some of the most oppressive governments the world has known and did so at a much faster rate than it does here in America. God is not boxed in by freedom of religion, speech or the right to bear arms. To in anyway place a form of government, no matter how good, in front of the value of a people is to disregard much of what Christ spoke of and how He lived. To say that slaves would have been better off being slaves is, besides being ridiculous, unknowable. What has hurt the descendants of slaves more than the overt racism of the southern states is the quiet racism of welfare. I'm sure we would agree on that point.

Proudpapa wrote: "The second amendment was not implemented so as to protect the right to hunt it was implemented so as to keep the Government accountable , and the ability for the people to succeed from a corrupt government".

Ah, you mean like what is happening in Syria? That's looking good!

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there’s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don’t constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that’s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn’t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn’t both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation … and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

"Fun fact the civil war wasn't started because of slavery but "State's Rights" Slavery was really secondary to this one issue."

While that may be true but debatable, the reason is far less important than the outcome. Also, it was the state's rights issue it was because of slavery.

Mr Bill,

What rights are you talking about losing? As I understand it, it is not about taking away the right to bear arms, but defining what arms are reasonable to bear. Assault weapons are not reasonable to most.

Do you think that citizens should have a right to bear any armament including misiles, bombs etc? If not then you are defining an interpretation of the 2nd amendment. If yes, then I'll leave you to the consequences.

Not really debatable it's historical there were other issues other than slavery at the time but all those issues rooted from the debate of should individual states have more control or the federal government have more control. There were even many nonslave owners in the south at the time. The Southern confederates wanted to act more independantly with little federal control while the North wanted the overall federal government to have control.

hi hoohoou

hoohoou wrote ///While that may be true but debatable, the reason is far less important than the outcome///

I do not believe that it is debatable for anyone that has researched the facts this is the reason I brought up lincolns first inaugural address and his support of the Corwin amendment to the Constitution

We are still suffering from the ramifications of the Civil War

Take care and stay close to the LORD because this is the ONLY way you will survive the coming persecution. Remember it starts in little things and as they progress they will become bolder - after people's will and power has been broken. And God sees it all, do not forget that.

God bless.

ginnyrose

___________________________________________

Greetings ginnyrose

I appreciated what you had to say. I have to share with you I have been feeling really frightened over this past week with all that has been in the news, the gun control issues, the forcing people to get flu shots, and the continuing talk about economic melt down and taxes. I was thinking all of these seem like the perfect ingredients for a very dark and lingering storm that is brewing above our country at the moment. As you said I see things getting much worse...so what can I do, what does lie ahead for us here in this country??? After spending much time in prayer GOD gave me the most wonderful answer! I read what you wrote "Take care and stay close to the LORD" That really is the best advice "to stay close to the LORD, pray, and keep my Bible at hand!!" GOD is in control so what is going to happen, will happen and that is the answer to my prayers, GOD is in control, HE knows what lays ahead, I just need to stay close!! :)

Thanks for your encouraging post in this thread. Just wanted to take a moment and let you know how it blessed me.

God bless
mj

Heydave ...Mr Bill, Do you think that citizens should have a right to bear any armament including missiles, bombs etc?

I don't know Dave, back when the 2nd amendment was drafted, they had cannons. To answer your question,of course I don't think folks should be allowed to possess missiles,bombs, the 2nd does say bear arms, what does arms mean? you would have to take that up with a constitutional lawyer, your really getting out yonder now. Lol

Heydave responded to my post by saying

"Only to protect my life, safety of another from harm, or invasion of my homeland would cause me to take up arms.- Solomon101

Heydave responded - "Only in the USA woud you hear a Christian say this. Now about the 2nd ammendment, so it says you have the right to bear arms. Does nobody have the right to define 'what arms'?

a couple of specific issues to address for me-

1. I take the first comment as a bit of a slight. So you then are certainly saying you would not save your wife or daughter from rape and murder with use of deadly force if necessary? Can't have it both ways mate. It's yes or no. Are you then further saying you would not join your countrymen in repelling the Germans in WW2? You would just let them waltz in and take your country setting up ovens and gas chambers to genocide your countrymen. Can't have it both ways mate. It's yes or no.

2. As to the question you posed of

Now about the 2nd ammendment, so it says you have the right to bear arms. Does nobody have the right to define 'what arms'?

A- All citizens were to be armed in such a capacity that they could be called upon in a moments notice to form a militia, CARRYING THEIR OWN ARMAMENTS, in order to repel another nations army that might invade. it was to be a firearm possession capable of meeting a foreign army in battle at a moments notice!

B- The citizens are to have armaments of sufficient numbers, quality, and technology to overthrow the federal government if they become despotic and assume themselves now "kings" infringing upon the rights of the populace. They were to have the same arms in their hands as any that were available to the federal government.

These facts are irrefutable. I, or many others here, can produce them in the Constitutional authors own words by the volumes. The colonists were to be able to overthrow the federal government if the government did not mind itself closely. Again, irrefutable proof of this in written documentation.

I have several British friends. We have had this discussion many times trying to see why we view it so differently...and we do view it in a vastly different light. In the final analysis we decided that the cultural differences were just to great for someone in the UK to understand our position.

It boils down to this really....Americans are free citizens. Brits are subjects of the monarchy. Americans are not willing to put their freedom on the chopping block and settle for being mere "subjects" just because some despot wants them to.

That is why we will not see eye to eye on this issue. We value freedom far more in the US than it is valued other places.

Many view it this simply - The 2nd amendment states - "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". It means exactly that. When politicians begin to infringe, in any way, upon those rights they have crossed the line and entered into despotism and subverted the rule of law.

Dave, you need to really think "outside" the box here, this is not about killings of innocent people, if so we would not be dropping bombs on innocent men, women and children in other countries, or killing "millions" of children through abortion. It's about disarming the American public.

I mentioned this in an earlier post....Obama and his banker masters want us disarmed before the economy collapses and will stop at nothing to disarm us. Obama knows that his policies will soon collapse the economy, and he does not want 80,000,000 plus armed citizens ticked off and looking for the folks that are responsible.

Dave, wake up! this kind of stuff is on the horizon, even "GOD" said so in his word.

bearmaster....I believe Mary Jane spoke the wisest word when she said stay close to the Lord and keep your Bible near you. For really the only weapon we should carry is the sword of the Spirit dwelling in our hearts.

Bear, I do carry my "sword" the word of God everywhere I go,but God also wants us to use our wisdom. So my wisdom tells me that when someone invades my home, there may not be any guarantee that reading him a few Scriptures will stop him from killing my whole family, especially if he is on drugs. So for my backup, I will use my 357 magnum, maybe your opinion differs from mine, but in my opinion I feel God would approve of me protecting my family whatever the means, but by all means I also respect your opinion, so pull your Bible on him and if it works out for you, just sing hallelujah, praise the lord.

By the way, remember this, rhetoric is an opinion and not fact.

bearmaster....Brothers do you worship tbe Constitution.

HezWelling...British Dave, brother i love you, but what are you all doing arguing the validity of the 2nd Amendment with a subject of the Queen of Britain?? he's NOT going to understand....and no amount of cyber squabbling is going to accomplish that.

I agree! if were all going to debate lets at least keep it apples to apples, rules and laws of other nations have no dog in this fight. American was built on independent thinkers not stereotype thinking, and this is what make us the greatest nation on earth, and if you don't feel that way and live here, why are you still here?

Dear MaryJane,

I understand perfectly what you are feeling, struggling with/against. I understand the other posters desire to arm themselves against what they perceive as a threat to our physical security. But...there is that but...and you have sought the LORD and I understand it so, as well. The bottom line is what does the Scripture say about bearing arms for the purpose of self-defense?

Whether it is logical or not, the best thing is to abide in the vine...if the devil works to chop it down, know that your destination will be far superior to your present abode. And this should give us a sense of delight, does it not?

Actually, MaryJane, it is not that I would be afraid of being shot it is the possibility of being tortured that cause my flesh to cringe.

But...I will choose, with the LORD's help, to not worry, live one day at a time because there are enough issues to deal with each and every day. If what I perceive could happen and it does, the LORD will be there to give us wisdom. He showed me this when I was dealing with Regina's impending death and He was so faithful, oh, so good, and based on my experience back then, I know He will do it again. In the meantime, study the WORD and delight yourself in the LORD...

God bless you, MJ!

ginnyrose

amrkelly stated

The queen is not a despot and this is not the 1800's

Ha! Made me chuckle. I did hear the queens speech from Christmas. It was refreshing indeed!

I did not mean to insinuate that the current queen in necessarily a despot or that it is the 1800"s.

However, you must also know that there have been a great many kings throughout history that indeed were despots.

My statement, in its context, was referring in the difficulty that my British friends and I have determined exists in their understanding the American position. Don't take it personally or as an affront. It is just an acknowledgement of the cultural and mindset differences that exist in the two nations.

The Brits are a "Kingdom" and "Monarchy". They regard themselves as such and have many years of history with it being engrained in the psyche of who they are as a people. I am not saying it is necessarily good or bad. It just is.

Conversely These United States are exactly that. A cooperative union of United States. There is no kingdom or monarch. We do not see the world from that perspective. We see ourselves as free men and women not subject to a national ruler or a national figure that is seen as the head of the state or church. In fact the original colonists did not consider themselves subject to much of anything except their conscience. Again, I am not necessarily saying that is good or bad. It just is.

I hope I have cleared that up a bit. No personal affront intended. I was just trying to accurately convey what we have found to be the actual differences in psyche and mindset in the two nations. I am American...but a couple of my dearest friends are British and Canadian. By discussing this openly and calmly as friends we have uncovered much of the reason for misunderstanding between the groups. We don't always agree... but we do understand and love each other.

I send the same love and understanding to you my friend!

You know, I truly believe we all here Love the Lord, and want to try and do everything we can through Love. If God thought Love would be enough, he would have given us a mind that only knows Love, but God knew that there is evil in this world, so he also mixed up a little wisdom and reasoning and common sense into our brains. This is a true story, I use to go to Church with the person that would not take out insurance on his home because he said God would protect it, sure enough he had a fire, but I never said a word, some folks you can't reason with, they are like the folks from Missouri, they need to be shown. :)

These quotes state the problem:

Solomon101 says: "It boils down to this really....Americans are free citizens. Brits are subjects of the monarchy. Americans are not willing to put their freedom on the chopping block and settle for being mere "subjects" just because some despot wants them to".

Hezwelling says: "and British Dave, brother i love you, but what are you all doing arguing the validity of the 2nd Amendment with a subject of the Queen of Britain??".

MrBillpro says: " American was built on independent thinkers not stereotype thinking, and this is what make us the greatest nation on earth, and if you don't feel that way and live here, why are you still here?"

You are talking like mere men of this earth, not as sons of the kingdom of God. As Bearmaster said, Is your faith in Christ or your earthly nation? You can't have it both.

Neil, I love you too, but I am subject to Christ above any earthly leader. As scripture teaches I will honour the govening authorities in eathly matters as long as they do not compromise my obedience to Christ. If they do, then I choose obedience to God and accept the consequences.

I'll leave it there because we seem poles apart in how we see things. I'm a stranger and pilgrim on this earth. God's rule on earth is not yet. It comes later!

HezWelling...i truly love you all, and think a freewheeling discussion is great, but i do think the wisest thing the moderators could do is shut down this thread, AND if possible make the whole thread disappear from the archives.

and if you think that's cowardly, so be it. dont worry, everybody will have ample opportunity to show their heroism, but be wise. loose lips....

Neil, why can't you just leave peacefully from the discussions you don't condone? Have you ever thought of others? What some read here "especially in this thread" might be a life or death matter, take your ball and go, we still Love you, but don't make folks feel under condemnation that might want or feel the need to be a part of this discussion.

So i feel like i needed to come back and say some things. First i posted this thread because honestly i was more surprised at the idea that the president was considering using an executive order and bypassing congress. i was thinking if the president does this with this issue what other issues might this be done with and where might that lead in relation to religious freedoms in this country. perhaps there was some fear in my thinking as well, i have been feeling some dread about where this might all lead but am encouraged by the reminders to stay close to the Lord Jesus. i did ask for everyone's thoughts but in doing so i was naive in not realizing what a hot topic this would be for some in the forum so for stirring anything up with my thread i am very sorry. i posted looking for assurance that everything is going to be fine but i know the truth is unless this country turns from its sin and repents things will not be fine so i will keep praying. praying for our leaders, praying for the lost, and praying for each of us to find strength in Him no matter what happens at the end of the day.

rdg

HezWelling wrote ///UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

why would anyone, with any wisdom, CHOOSE, to even INTRODUCE, "the civil war", "slavery" and "seccesion" into this thread?...is beyond me.

what are you thinking? dont you realize this PLAYS RIGHT INTO THE HANDS of anti-2nd Amendment types?!

they think anybody that owns a weapon is a race hating cracker fascist anyway....and you just FEED that notion by such ill advised rhetoric, unbelievable///

SkepticGuy wote ///speculative at best! have u been learning history at the feet of HK Edgerton or 'sons of confederate vets'? this is the type of lies that are pushed by the modern kkk and neo-nazi groups like storm-front. the civil war had everything to do w/ slavery. have u never heard of the 'border-wars' and the fights over 'free-state' and 'slave-state' that existed 20 yrs b4 the war? have u never heard of john brown? hariette tubman? maybe fredrick douglas? lincoln made it absolutely about slavery in 1863 w/ the signing of the amancipation proclamation, but it had everything to do w/ slavery b4 that.

i can not believe sum1 would come to a website like sermonindex and propogate these revisionist history lies used by hate groups like the kkk and storm-front. its almost as if u pasted word for word from those groups. shameful.

yes the war was about states rights, but the right the states were concerned with was SALVERY. there would not have ever been a war if there had not been slavery.///

Wow you guys say these things because I do not believe that the Civil War was a Just War. and that I believe things would have worked out for the better for everyone had the Union simply allowed the South to succeed.

QUOTE:
"person that would not take out insurance on his home"

We do buy insurance but I cringe every time we have to pay it. :-/ Got a huge bill right now on top of property taxes. Seems like the only thing we accomplish is paying taxes and insurance...

Actually, we have used so little insurance in our married life that I do consider it a waste of resources.

My opinion...

For Mary Jane and other females,

I know that all this talk of impeding gloom concerning our country's future is really unsettling to us because we cannot do a thing to fix it: for moms this is hard because we are called upon to fix everything!

Jesus expects us to occupy until he comes. This means to live and work, do the essential things to keep life rolling along. As moms this means we make a home where our families can come and feel secure, a place of peace and refuge from all the nastiness that is out there. If you are an orderly person, your house is well swept, clean, beds made, dishes washed, laundry done and put away. So what does one do with the rest of your time? May I suggest you check out Proverbs 31, study it and ask the LORD if there is anything you can do to brighten your home, your community using the talents God gave you - doing all this without shorting your family.

What I do to occupy is sew. I love to sew. My sewing room looks like a factory to an uninformed person. This is a gift the LORD gave me - to sew. At one point - just before Regina died - I had lost interest in sewing, it was almost total. After she died, I took it upon myself to sew for her daughter. This resurrected my interest and it mushroomed from there. Today I wish my days were 36 hours long and would not have to sleep - such a drag on my desire to sew some more. I have accumulated lots of remnant pieces of fabrics and have sewn for little girls including my granddaughters plus other projects. Sometimes I weary of one project so I will lay it aside and do something else until my enthusiasm returns - and it always does. My goals are to finish a project sometime, no time limits. Relaxing this way.

Mary Jane, when one does this all this talk about national security comes across like a bunch of naughty boys that love to fight that need some woodshed therapy!

So, I would encourage you to get busy with something that really absorbs your mind, creativity (this comes for God, you know). Life will become interesting and very enjoyable.

God bless.

ginnyrose

ginnyrose...So, I would encourage you to get busy with something that really absorbs your mind, creativity (this comes for God, you know). Life will become interesting and very enjoyable.

God bless.

ginnyrose

That's good advise for anyone. :)
Thanks!

Ginny rose thank you so much for the great advice keeping busy is what I have been seeking to do. I had some really wonderful interesting time with the LORD on Wednesday night and into Thursday morning. All I can say was that I finally let go of some things and instead of falling to my doom, HE lifted me up and carried me until the morning light!! HE is faithful and I need to keep my eyes on HIM!!
_____________________________________
Neil you wrote:and in conclusion, just consider this..isnt it ODD, that the loudest voices on a gun ban...their reasoning, is "we have to make the children safe"....yet, these very same voices are THE loudest on a woman's "right to choose"....said "choice" being the terrible sin of abortion......doesnt that strike anyone as slightly OFF kilter, and hypocritical?

Neil its almost as if you read my mind. Living here in CT. this tragedy is being used to push agendas big time and yet these same lost and deceived politicians that call for gun ban to "protect" the children are the very ones who keep promoting and ensure the killing of hundreds of thousands of unborn children every day...this is truly mans wisdom and honestly it is frightening to see!
________________________________________
Thank you both for sharing. Ginny rose you really hit the heart of it as a mom the caring for and desire for the family is always in the back on my mind in these things but I realize I am just not capable of doing it all I have to relinquish and let go...HE is there and HIS arms are surly big enough and capable to deal with everything!! Thank you so much for the things you have shared with us

God Bless
mj

Yes, Neil, I understand your love for Israel. I may not be a Jew like you, but we love Israel, too. We also believe God has his eye on her and that He will show Himself mighty to her for all the world to see. Neil, I am not the only Gentile Believer who believes thus, there are many like us.

I have relatives whose churches take the stand [officially] that the church has displaced Israel in end-time prophecy. However, as events are unfolding, even some of them are questioning their position on this issue!

The future of Israel is precarious, at best. We expect to see warfare before long. Will there be guns used? Likely. Nuclear weapons? Likely. But we do not know all about it; just have strong hunches - but know God is in control and I for one want to stay out of their way.

It does no use to wring our hands in dread. If something bad happens to us, God will not be taken by surprise, remember that. He will give us whatever we need to remain faithful - we may get uncomfortable, even suffer, but his sustaining power over our souls and spirit will be there, just like it is now. God will not abandon his people.

God bless and may you continue to abide in His love, mercy and grace.

ginnyrose

the second admendment gone right.

There is an interesting thing that happened a few years ago close to where I Lived.

A woman almost a hundred years old was at her home alone when she heard someone breaking in thru a window, She screamed as loud as she could for her husband to get the gun and get in here fast, The intruder immediately left. What is funny is that the woman not only did not have a gun but her husband had been dead for 20 years.

Unfortunately stories like this one never make it past the local news.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/09/vice-president-to-meet-with-gun-safety-groups/

The above news story talks about how the president might use executive action as a part of the governments response to gun control. As I have been reading on this topic and reading about all these people buying guns because of it I almost feel a sense of dread about what could happen if the government does attempt to force people to give up their guns?? Just wonder if anyone else was following this story and your thoughts? I for one am praying that God's will be done in all of this other than that I don't know what the answer is.

rainydaygirl,

what people don't realize is how many people actually defend themselves and others each year in America and prevent horrible crimes.

I spoke to a Spirit-filled Nigerian Pastor recently and knowing about all the attacks by Muslims on various villages I asked him what they would do if their villages (wives and children) were attacked and he told me quite forthrightly and unapologetically that they "would defend themselves". I wanted to get the perspective of someone who is actually living in that type of environment since much of what we talk about is just "theory".

But for the people in these stories, it is definitely not theory. Stories that you seldom if ever see on the news.

896 Stories of self-defense
http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/

10 Stories That Prove Guns Save Lives
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2013/02/02/10-stories-that-prove-guns-save-lives-n1503549/page/full

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

3.6 per 100,000 in 2010 (homicides)
7.0 per 100,000 in 1993 (homicides)

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/7/#appendix-1-additional-tables-on-firearm-deaths

Interesting book.
More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws by John Lott. (except for Chicago and D.C. "No guns, more crime)

If you don't want to read it, at least read the first 3 of 144 reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493660/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369422192&sr=1-1

Then of course there is the fact that police officers cannot possibly protect 330 million people.

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away"

Woman, threatened with rape, calls 911 only to be told: "there are no officers on duty to help her"

A terrified woman from Josephine County, Oregon, dialed 911 to report that her violent ex-boyfriend is trying to break into her home, but in response she was told that there are no officers on duty to help her. . . .

Safety crisis: Sheriff Gil Gilbertson said that due to lack of funding, citizens are not guaranteed protection simply because there are not enough deputies on hand to respond to every emergency call

'Uh, I don’t have anybody to send out there. You know, obviously, if he comes inside the residence and assaults you, can you ask him to go away? Do you know if he’s intoxicated or anything?' the officer, who identified himself as Ray, told the caller.

(google the story if you want to read the whole thing).