Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?

In these dark times of great apostasy Satan has certainly been working overtime to deceive the masses. The devil has largely succeeded in blinding multitudes of professing Christians with a certain teaching that has infiltrated a large number of evangelical churches. I am referring to the belief that one does not need to turn away from their sinful lifestyle to be right with God; a teaching that says one only needs to "believe” in Christ and His finished work on the cross. It is a clever deception which sounds good. It sounds good at surface level because the Bible does teach that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and not by works(Rom.3:28; Eph.2:8-9; Gal.2:16). The devil has taken that truth and twisted it to mean something that God never intended, namely, that one can be a true born again Christian while living a lifestyle of willful, habitual, unrepentant sin. Yet God’s Word clearly warns us about that kind of false teaching(Jude1:3-4). This teaching is sometimes called "easy-believism” or "cheap grace”.

God’s Word is crystal clear that both repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ are necessary for salvation(Acts 20:21;Mk. 1:15). Jesus said, "but unless you repent you will all likewise perish”(Lk.13:5). Acts 3:19 declares, "Repent therefore and be converted, so that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.”

There are multitudes who sit in our churches week after week who claim to know the Lord who have not truly repented of their sins against God. They have bought into a lie which has told them that God only requires for them to give "mental assent" to the sacrifice of Christ as payment for their sins. They are not sorry for their sins but are very comfortable in them and are not willing to depart from them with God's help. Jesus will tell many of these people, "depart from Me, for I never knew you, you who practice lawlessness"-Matt.7:23.

True biblical faith in Christ is always accompanied by true repentance, which involves a change of mind about our behavior which offends God. It begins in the mind and heart just like trusting in Christ's finished work begins in the mind and heart.

Those who promote "easy-believism” would have us think that when the Bible mentions the command to repent it is referring only to a change of mind about trusting in one’s own works or goodness for salvation, without any reference to any change of behavior. However, while biblical repentance does include a change of mind about trusting in one's own works for salvation, it also includes a change of mind about the way one has been living in open rebellion against God.

True repentance begins with an awakening to the dilemma of our sins against God like never before. It begins with a godly sorrow over our sins. We realize that we have turned our back on God all our lives after all of His mercy and goodness toward us. We begin to hunger and thirst for righteousness(being right with God and pleasing Him) as Jesus spoke of in the sermon on the mount(Matt.5:6). We are willing to do whatever God commands us to do in order to be in right standing with Him. We realize that we cannot continue to live the way we have been living, doing what is right in our own eyes.

At first the true believer may try to turn from sin in his/her own strength and soon realizes that he/she is too weak in the battle over sin. We soon learn that it is Christ in us and the Holy Spirit that enable us to overcome sin and temptation, not we ourselves in our own strength. And we learn immediately that Jesus Christ has paid the penalty for all of our sins and that we are saved by God's grace(undeserved favor), so we look to Christ alone for salvation, not to our efforts to please God. We also realize that we cannot be perfect in this life even though we sincerely desire to please God in all things. We learn that God does not expect us to be perfect in this life in order to be in right standing with Him, but He does expect us to hate sin and confess and forsake it continually with His help. We heartily embrace God's command to strive for holiness in the fear of God(2Cor.7:1; Heb.12:14).

Again, true faith in Christ will accompany true repentance which involves a turning from sin. James 2:20 tells us that faith without works is dead faith, it is not genuine saving faith. We cannot have friendship with our sins if we are to be right with God. We cannot justify our sinful lifestyle and expect to have the forgiveness of our sins. We must be broken over our sins and cry out to God for His mercy and deliverance from sin’s bondage. We must agree with God and hate our sin like He does. That is not trusting in our works but simply believing what God has said about sin and obeying His command to repent and trust Christ. Repentance(a sorrow which entails a change of mind and behavior) and faith in Christ are the two channels through which we humbly receive God's free gift of salvation. They are not works that earn salvation for us.

The following are some Scriptures that warn us about being deceived into thinking we can live a lifestyle of willful, habitual, sinful behavior and still be right with God.

"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death”-Revelation 21:8.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God"-1Cor.6:9-10(see also 1Cor.5 whole chapter)

"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God"-Gal.5:19-21

"But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them."-Ephesians 5:3-7

"Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."-1John 3:4-6

"Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God"-1John3:5-9

"Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them"-Acts 14:15

"but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance."-Acts 26:20

"For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God"-1Thessalonians 1:9

"Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the Lord, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon."-Isaiah 55:7

"Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: "Repent, turn away from your idols, and turn your faces away from all your abominations."-Ezekiel 14:6

"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin."-Ezekiel 18:30

And then there is Revelation 2:23: "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

This concept is demonstrated throughout the entire book of Revelation. One cannot say this idea is an OT one, that we live in grace and lifestyle is irrelevant.

I fear for those who live with this belief of easy-believism - imagine the horror they will experience when they find out they did not have their sins under the blood come judgment day.

Where does repentance come form?

Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

What is repentance for?

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Who leads us into repentance?

Ephesians 2:1-22 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Tearing down this wall and giving us His Spirit making us one new man. He, Jesus Christ that is birthed in us is the One that leads to repentance. I of myself can repent of nothing, Only by the Christ that is birthed in us can we repent and do the good deeds God has built together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

If we are in Christ, repentance is of Him and we are the work being finished in Him, unto repentance.

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Being made perfect in Christ is the only path to true repentance.

Who makes us perfect?

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ repenting by His strength and His working in me mightily:

No one can be saved or repent unless it is of God.

Phillip

Hi Christinyou

good post.

I will add

Whom is called to repent??

all men every where

Act 17
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth (all men) every where to repent

Hi Oracio,
Repentance is required for Salvation but....
I was saved and I am being saved and I will be saved when Christ comes or I die.
Turning to Christ and accepting him as Saviour is repentance.
Most brothers n sisters(i realize I am generalizing) I thread with on SI believe in post trib, hyper persecution ,ten shekels and a shirt type Christianity,they believe wrongly in my opinion in an un biblical term called "cheap grace" which is the same as easy belierverism.
I think most brothers/sisters who believe this way are very genuine but their end time view is normally reflected in the hardness they have towards Christians who are at a different stage of development or are immature.
I also think their views are a reaction to the crazy tv evangelist,blab n grab it false teaching that has been going on for the last few decades.I totally understand the fustration however God does have a plan for these Christians caught up in the world.Paul did the things(sins)he did not want to.What happens if on the last day of Paul's life he sinned and did not repent!You see where is the cut off?I understand the true concern you have for these people but I would be pleasantly surprized if you do not hold to at least one of the beliefs outlined,
yours staff

The answer is yes and always yes and we know this is a necessary and essential component not only of salvation but also of the continued sanctification which accompanies the new life. The question preceding the posted question should be what is true repentance? It should not be without fear and trembling that Saints would join this thread for all are accountable in this process that God uses to conform his children.

For every original of great worth, there is the counterfeit. There is both a counterfeiter who creates the copy and the one who is deceived by the copy. The deceived is willing to pay even a great sum for what they are led into believing is true. Cheap easy believism, the cheap gospel, the false gospel, the partial gospel, the man centered gospel, and every other phrase or term identifying it will have enough of the original that it can be passed off as the real thing. So much so, that even the copy gains a much greater popularity than the original by virtue of the sheer number possessing it.

With such a vast number of those who have been deceived into buying the copy, the copy will come to redefine the work of the original for now the copy has become the standard. The fake's inferior paint will not hold its color over time. The canvass will deteriorate and not stand the test of the years. Even the technique and stroke of the con artist will now define how men will recognize the master. So what was the previous standard by which all things were measured and judged, is usurped by the new criteria formed by and based on the imposter and his counterfeit. It will change everything yet maintain a close semblance to the original.

What was The Good News, repentance, worship, regeneration, sanctification, the testimony of the changed life, baptism, communion, the gifts, the priesthood of the believer, prayer, discipline, evangelism, faith, confession, etc..... will all have to be redefined through doctrines born in hell. Scripture will have to be seen in a new light or rather an old darkness. To those who have bought into the work of the fraud, their only hope is to know the True Artist so that they can value His work alone. Then and only then will they come to recognize the fraudulent works of the deceiver. May his works be exposed.

Hi staff,
You wrote, "I was saved and I am being saved and I will be saved when Christ comes or I die."

If you are referring to the process of sanctification where we continually repent, confessing and forsaking our sins, I completely agree with you.

You also wrote, "Turning to Christ and accepting him as Saviour is repentance."

I would also agree with you there if you mean to say turning from sin to Christ is repentance. My concern is that Satan has used terms like the one you used to get multitudes of professing Christians to believe in easy-believism. Many pastors are afraid to preach on God's command for all men to turn from their wicked ways. The Gospel has been largely watered down. I am convinced we need more John the Baptist style preachers these days because of so much apostasy and deception.

Also, there is another aspect to this false teaching which says one can have Christ as Saviour without having Him as Lord of their lives. I tell you that is straight from the pit.

You also wrote, "Most brothers n sisters(i realize I am generalizing) I thread with on SI believe in post trib, hyper persecution ,ten shekels and a shirt type Christianity,they believe wrongly in my opinion in an un biblical term called "cheap grace" which is the same as easy belierverism.
I think most brothers/sisters who believe this way are very genuine but their end time view is normally reflected in the hardness they have towards Christians who are at a different stage of development or are immature"

I will have to apologize for my slowness because I'm not exactly sure what you mean there. Many true believers hold to different end-time views but it does not affect their salvation. I have met many on-fire-for-God true believers that hold to various end-time views. Also, I'm not sure how holding to a view of "hyper persectuion or ten shekels and a shirt" type of Christianity would equal "cheap grace".

I would agree with you that in those matters we should show each other much grace and patience and acceptance, for they are matters that are not essential to salvation.

You also wrote, "I totally understand the fustration however God does have a plan for these Christians caught up in the world."

I would hope that you mean to say that these "Christians" are false Christians, since God's Word warns us over and over about that kind of deception. A true Christian may struggle with a certain sin but he/she will not be comfortable with it or try to justify it. There is a difference between struggling or battling with sin and comfortably running to and justifying sin.

Good article. I want to share this message that I heard from SI recently of Brother Zac Poonen that blessed me so much.

'Repent first ' http://media.sermonindex.net/24/SID24330.mp3

Hi Sree, thank you so much for sharing that link. I too was really blessed by that message! Zac Poonen gives many great insights on repentance in that message!

Hi Oracio,
My apologies on looking at the way i Wrote that Paragraph I can see its confusing let me rephrase:
"Most brothers n sisters(i realize I am generalizing) I thread with on SI believe in post trib, hyper persecution ,ten shekels and a shirt type Christianity.
They use in my opinion un biblical term called "cheap grace" which is the same as easy belierverism(which is the opposite of the above)to describe Christians that have still attachment to the world of a sinful nature.
What I mean is that the bible teaches being under grace or not under grace,its one or the other but no such term as cheap grace.
No I dont see them as false Christians(once they have accepted Jesus as Saviour and are indwelt with his Spirit)I do see them as "prodigal sons and daughters" that are involved wrongly with sin for a season or seasons and are Christians acting falsely.I do think that God has a "John The Baptist" type plan for these people.He doesnt give up the way we do.It is very difficult to distinguish between a Christian struggling/battling with sin and a false Christian.I am not saying their are no false Christians(people who have no revelation of Jesus but attend bible believing Churches and have all the bells and whistles of Pentecostal Christianity as a learned behaviour)
Jesus waits to kill the fatted calf for his prodigals and robe them with a royal robe.
Paris Reidhead was as (far as I can remember)around fifteen years a born again spirit filled Christian before he became to believe what he writes about in "ten shekels".
It can take time before we become what the father wants us to be,
blessings staff

Absolutely..

Peter puts it like this.

'Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost'.
(KJV)

this applies to both pentecost, but also the indwelling presence of God or, as we put put today, being born again.

Matt 3 v 1-2

In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

& v 5-6

Then Jerusalem, all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,went out to him and were baptized of him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. (KJV)

also Acts 17 v 28-31

28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” (KJV)

the list goes on and on.

If repentance is given by God and Faith is given by God to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Life is given by the Life of Christ in the believer, Then salvation depends upon God and His Grace which He also gives with Faith to believe.

If all is given by God, when are we to repent and what are we to repent of? The only repentance I see is turning to Christ, turning away from death and turning to Christ the Life God has birthed in us, making us son's of God. Then if we sin God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins when we humbly confess sin in our lives. Overcoming sin by the power of the risen Christ and the Holy Spirit quickening and revealing Christ in us and also revealing sin that we might confess and be cleansed from all unrighteousness.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; (((((if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;))))) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and (((((the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God,))))) who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I do not frustrate the Grace of God by repenting in the righteousness of the Law, for repentance has already been given me to believe and enter into the new life, Satan out and Christ in with the Father and the Holy Spirit all Three in One in me.

Now repentance flows in me unto the righteousness of Christ that now lives in me. Now as at first I believe I am a sinner, but much more now repentance takes me into the greater things of Christ and my salvation by the Holy Spirit power in me.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

Repentance is one of God's great gifts but it is not a requirement for The Grace of God giving Christ to those that are His which He bought and paid for on the Cross, those whom only one was lost, "Judas".

By Grace through Faith which is not of ourselves we now rejoice in our repentance which flows from the gift of God and the life of Christ through His Cross and precious blood, payment in full.

To the knowledge of the truth We may learn from this what is the actual repentance we have received, who for a time were all disobedient to God; for Paul declares that it begins with "the knowledge of the truth," "peradventure", that God give repentance to whom He wills, not by mans repentance that the understanding of man is blinded, so long as it stands out fiercely against God and his doctrine. He can only receive repentance and salvationn by the Hand of God, by His mercy and Grace through faith given to believe in the truth.

In Christ; Phillip

I like the way you see the book, or hold to the teachings in the book. I would be happy to hear you preach, so maybe you should.

Maybe get some prayer support and take gentle steps forward looking of a leading of some sort and in the meantime gather some friends and start sharing together if you are not doing so already.

You will be hated for his name sake, in the name is the character just as in the old testament. The character of God will bring persecution and from our own ranks first but keep going. I also liked your comment on the bride preparing herself, look into that.

There are others who also deserve encouragement.

Kind regards Oskar.

Yes Oracio,

I believe Repentance is absolutely a must for salvation.

It is the Grace of God,...His Devine inffluence upon our heart,drawing us to Himself,...showing us that we are lost sinners,In need of a Saviour,...lost and undone.

Mt.3:3,(where John the Baptist came preaching)
...,Repent;for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND,....prepare ye the WAY of The Lord. (Lord: meaning,one who is ruling in our life)
,..make His PATHS straight".... we were WALKING on a crooked path of our own choosing / our way, but now;repent,." Repent : a turning from our old way and go toward the Lord...Go in the WAY that He will led us.

( seeking the kingdom of God ) ..(what would Thou have for me to do Lord?)

Jesus said," I Am the WAY," .....which is through His Truth,..so that
we may / can have Life.....His life flowing from us.

V 7 ,But when he (John) saw the Pharisees ( Pharisees: pretenders,actors)
and the Saddusees come to the baptism,he said unto them,O generation of vipers,who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
V 8,..Bring forth,therefore fruits [ befitting] [meet for] repentance.

V10 ,..And now also the axe is laid unto THE ROOT of the trees;therefore,every tree which bringth not forth GOOD FRUIT is hewn down,and cast into the fire.

(Now, in our old walk/ flesh, ,did we have good fruits? )..and when we turn
around / repent,doesn't He start working these fruits in us: ...?

Gal.5:22," But the fruit of the Spirit is love,joy,peace,long-suffering,
Gentleness,goodness,faith,meekness,self-control;...
V24,..and they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections
and lusts.

Lovingly always,
elizabert

Elibeth wrote

"I believe Repentance is absolutely a must for salvation."

Is this repentance pre or post the salvation of the believer being birthed by the incorruptible Seed of the Father, Jesus Christ, "Christ in you the hope of glory".

In Christ: Phillip

///Is this repentance pre or post the salvation of the believer being birthed by the incorruptible Seed of the Father, Jesus Christ, "Christ in you the hope of glory".///

'I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.'

repentance toward God is what initiates salvation, this repentance unto life is granted from God.

edit. for clarity

Philip,
You ask :
" Is this repentance per or post the salvation of the believer being birthed
By the incorruptible Seed of the Father,Jesus Christ. "Christ in you,the hope of glory"

Actually I have never considered it.

But I believe in repentance in the beginning (pre) and a continual attitude of repentance.

( I do know, that the Word says," except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" .

So, for that order,..to save us from perishing,repent must come first.

I had wrote up about coming to The Lord,in step form,...lost it one time and canceled it the next,thinking not to do that.

Sorry, I wish I could answer more satisfactory.

Sincerely,
elizabeth

Some people do not like to hear much of repentance; but I think it is so necessary that if I should die in the pulpit, I would desire to die preaching repentance, and if out of the pulpit I would desire to die practicing it.

~Matthew Henry~

The Christian who has stopped repenting has stopped growing.

~A. W. Pink~

Luke 24: 45-49: NASB

45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,

47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

48 “You are witnesses of these things.

49 “And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you;

Note the phrase "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins" in verse 47. Can't get any plainer then this, can you?
No repentance, no forgiveness, no salvation.

In whose name is repentance proclaimed, whose minds are opened that we might understand what and where repentance comes from, in our minds being opened to understand these scriptures?

Who is sending this repentance forth unto the believer, which is the preordained promise of the Father of Jesus Christ.

I AM Not saying that repentance is not what should happen in the life of the believer, I am saying that this repentance comes with salvation that we might attain to repentance in our lives by the power of God the Father, through the Holy Spirit and in the Name and Life of Jesus Christ that is birthed in us by the incorruptible Seed of the Father, which is "Christ in you the hope of glory".

In Christ through His proclaimed and given repentance:

Phillip

My repentance has no effect on salvation, only His repentance given me by the Father can open my mind to the truth of Jesus Christ who is now my life and repentance and oneness with The Father as a son and brother to the Christ that is in me, which Paul proclaims in all his epistles.

Philip,
I don't know if I can explain this very well,..because I am not so good at that sometimes,..but maybe I could go in steps,hoping to help.
You ask:
In whose Name is repentance proclaimed ?

It is the Name of Jesus,..the Name of God.
We must remember that His Name Philip,is everything that is in that Name
Which is the Whole Word of God,...Truth,and Truth is everything as God Himself see's it ,..the righteous judgments of God,...how He judges in everything. In Rev.,it says "and His Name is called,The Word of God" .
We are called by His Name.

We cannot come to the Father,except He draw us. So in due season,He
sends forth the Seed,which is 'the Word of God into our heart ( which is the Word of the kingdom) and through His Grace: the Devine influence upon the heart, (the hearing of the Word ) now ,what are we going to do with the Seed,(word) ?..that He is showing us ( that we are hearing )that He is righteous,..and we are dreadful sinners,...this Grace drawing,...striving with us to repent,..we have been going in the ways of the world / flesh,now turn and go in His WAY,..who IS the WAY,and go toward the beckoning of His Spirit / Word. ( we were clothed in filthy rags but NOW He want us to cast off the filthy rags, and be clothed in righteousness by His Spirit.

We remember the Seed example: some hear the Word of the kingdom ,and understandeth it not,then cometh the wicked one,and catcheth away that
which was sewn in the heart. (Seeds fell by the wayside )

we were going after the way of the earthly kingdoms,now He is drawing us to His Heavenly Kingdom,..and what do we do in a Heavenly Kingdom?
This Word / Seed ,through His Grace, is drawing us to come and die to self-will and to seek the King' will...." What would Thou have for me to do Lord? "
We now,have the opportunity to turn around, ( repent )

Philip, there are some here that could edit and do a much better job of explaining,I'm sure, than I can.

Forgive me
now please salvage what you can....
elizabeth

"My repentance has no effect on salvation, only His repentance given me by the Father can open my mind to the truth of Jesus Christ"

No, that is simply not scriptural doctrine. It's not "His repentance" that opens your mind Phillip. It's His grace that will lead You to repent.

You want everything happen externally to you with you as a person claiming no active participation. That's not salvation, as your original 'you' will remain the same, 'uncracked' and untouched in the pocess. The 'self' part has to repent and change, you cannot adopt the new creation without giving up the territory of old 'self'. If that would be possible, God would simply given us an upgrade - Adam 2.0.

God has made the gospel message so simple that even a child can understand it. We don't have to understand the deep things of theology such as Calvinism vs Arminianism to be saved or to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus and the prophets and apostles kept it simple so that the people who didn’t know God could understand the basic salvation message; repent or perish, repent and believe, turn from your sins and trust in Christ, turn or burn. Judgment Day is coming, heaven or hell. Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God that he may exalt you in due time. Believe that Christ died for your sins, was buried and rose from the dead on the third day.

I believe in the drawing of the Holy Spirit and that salvation is of the Lord, a work of the Holy Spirit in the heart. But unbelievers don't necessarily have to hear and understand those deep truths to be saved. They need to hear the basics of the gospel most importantly. After they are saved they start being acquainted with the deeper things of God as they begin the discipleship and sanctification process. I’m not saying there’s no place for the preaching of the deep truths of God in evangelism but I’m saying it’s not always necessary to preach those deeper truths. If you feel led to preach certain deep truths to the lost that’s fine, I sometimes feel led to do that. But don’t make it a binding requirement for every single gospel message.

I still don't see how anyone can repent and receive salvation without that repentance being of God. Yes it is of Grace through faith, this I understand. It is like John's baptism of water and Christ's baptism in the Holy Spirit. One is earthly and the other is heavenly. Which one brings salvation to the spirit and which one brings salvation to the soul? It must be the spirit first that the soul/mind can come to the things of God. Without this, "being born again", we cannot understand the things of God, that includes repentance, unless it is of God, it means nothing. Now because it is of God, "peradventure God would grant me repentance", then if we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse from all unrighteousness." Repentance comes from forgiveness and cleansing after confessing.

Sorry, but this is the only way I see it. Christ in me first then faith upon faith from precept upon precept wrought in me by the Holy Spirit and the Mind of Christ, then I understand what true repentance, not just me saying I repent, with no turning or hatred of the sin that is in me.

IN Christ: Phillip

I still don't see how anyone can repent and receive salvation without that repentance being of God.

I see lot of worldly wisdom in your arguments. If one comes with his own intelligence he cannot understand the things of above. That is why there is no respect for simple scripture like Acts 2-38 :-38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Your logic is something like this, if God is the one who is creating life then why should man and women unite after marriage? I used to think like this when I was a Child. It is through a willful union of Man and women God brings life on this earth. Which I understood when I grew up.

Same way though repentance is from God it is man accepting and yielding to it is what causes one to repent. Bible says we need to yield to our temptations to produce sin leading to death (James 1-14). How much more can repentance be produced without a man yielding to it?

An unrepentant man cannot be born again. Why? to be born again you need to die to our old self. It is God who causes us to die to our past life when we repent from our sinful life. By repenting from our past life and turning to God, a sinner proclaims to God that he hates his past life like how Jesus asked his followers in Luke 14:25. If God can cause an unrepented man to die by force then he becomes a murderer because he has killed someone who did not want to die. So by proclaiming that without repentance a man can be born again you are proclaiming God to be a murderer.

A simple 12 min audio from Zac Poonen on repentance explains the need for repentance for Salvation. Please listen to it acknowledging that our human intelligence is worth zero, then God will show the truth.

http://www.cfcindia.com/tbsaudio/25_Basic_Christian_Teachings/07_Repentance.mp3

Forgive me if I sounded harsh.

Sorry, but this is the only way I see it. Christ in me first then faith upon faith from precept upon precept wrought in me by the Holy Spirit and the Mind of Christ, then I understand what true repentance, not just me saying I repent, with no turning or hatred of the sin that is in me.

Philip, it seems like we have more in common on this issue than we may think. I am not saying we can just say we repent, with no turning or hatred of the sin that is in us. That's one of the main reasons I posted the op, to try to explain biblical repentance as a turning from and hatred of sin.

I understand your concern regarding a "fleshly" or "earthly" repentance and I would agree. The Bible speaks of a sorrow of the world that leads to death. True repentance entails a God-centered or God-focused sorrow and hatred of our sin, and it is a work of the Holy Spirit in one's heart.

But our job is not to just tell the unbeliever that God must first work that work in their heart before they can repent and believe in Christ. If we do that they will become complacent in their sins and their blood will be on our hand in a major way.

As Christ's witnesses we are to tell them that God commands them to repent and turn to Christ while there is still time. We are to warn them to flee from the coming wrath, to flee to Christ for forgiveness and salvation.

My main concern in the op was the watered down gospel of no repentance, of no turning from and hatred of sin. And it seems you agree that genuine repentance has those elements. Another concern was to try to make it as simple and understandable as possible, because I was dealing with the basics of the gospel. Those basics are what we are to preach to a lost and dying world all around us.

Just got done reading Matthew Henry's Commentary on Proverbs 1:23 and thought it was very relevant to this discussion.

"Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you."-Proverbs 1:23

"Turn, that is, return to your right mind, turn to God, turn to your duty, turn and live. (2.) The promises are very encouraging. Those that love simplicity find themselves under a moral impotency to change their own mind and way; they cannot turn by any power of their own. To this God answers, "Behold, I will pour out my Spirit unto you; set yourselves to do what you can, and the grace of God shall set in with you, and work in you both to will and to do that good which, without that grace, you could not do." Help thyself, and God will help thee; stretch forth thy withered hand, and Christ will strengthen and heal it. [1.] The author of this grace is the Spirit, and that is promised: I will pour out my Spirit unto you, as oil, as water; you shall have the Spirit in abundance, rivers of living water, John vii. 38. Our heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those that ask him. [2.] The means of this grace is the word, which, if we take it aright, will turn us; it is therefore promised, "I will make known my words unto you, not only speak them to you, but make them known, give you to understand them." Note, Special grace is necessary to a sincere conversion. But that grace shall never be denied to any that honestly seek it and submit to it.-Matthew Henry's Commentary

Who will honestly seek and sincerely submit to the grace of God?

Who can read the Word and take it aright on their own? It takes the Holy Spirit to teach us the Word and make it the telling portion that divides it rightly and makes it from above and not below.

Galatians 3:19-24 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Before faith came all were, especially the Jews were all shut up unto the faith that was to be revealed after the Cross. WE know that the faith of Abraham was given to keep the old testament saints able to stay in God's Grace, but this was not the Faith revealed after the Cross. Now to believe by faith which comes from above revealed in us that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and when He said, "It is finished", all that compasses from the foundation of the world this faith that God intends to be the vehicle by which salvation is come, is birthed in the believer when God gives the believer to the Son and places the incorruptible Seed of the Father in us, we are saved and if Christ be in you, you are saved indeed.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Faith was not yet revealed, not because the fathers wanted light, but because they had less light than we have. The ceremonies of the Law might be said to shadow out an absent Christ, but to us he is represented as actually present, He being the only way of achieving the fullness of His Faith as we grow up into Christ and thus while they had the mirror, we have the substance.

We have received the Holy Spirit by simply believing. We were sealed by that Spirit and knew thereby that We are redeemed and the sons of God. If they possessed this seal of divine righteousness why should they add to it the works of the law? They acted, indeed, foolishly.

Is it finished or not. Is it grace by faith and adding repentance, completely finished or Grace plus asking for the Holy Spirit, finished or do we have to add the moral law, If repentance is necessary for salvation then God must grant repentance unto salvation when He, "1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Who is the Word, that is living, who is birthed in us?
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

This is He that is in us, He that makes us son's of God and fellow heirs with Christ. He is our only hope of Glory.

(Strange, unscriptural doctrines concerning the Holy Spirit are taught in different sects and parties. Some teach that the Christian should earnestly seek this gift, and the baptism with the Spirit. They claim that each individual must make a definite experience of receiving the baptism with the Spirit. That we must repent first before we can receive the gift of salvation from God. This seeking includes, what they term, a full surrender, etc., and after enough seeking, surrender, giving up and praying, they claim to have received the power of the Holy Spirit. The argument here refutes this teaching. The Holy Spirit is given to every believer in Christ.) At the same time we are born again into the sonship of Christ Life, we receive the Holy Spirit of Promise by the prayer of the Son to the Father.

Now that I am now saved I rejoice in repenting and confessing and begging for the strength of turning and being blessed by the cleansing of all unrighteousness.

Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, then repentance means something to me for now I have the MInd of Christ and know how to repent.

In Christ: Phillip

Is it finished or not. Is it grace by faith and adding repentance, completely finished or Grace plus asking for the Holy Spirit, finished or do we have to add the moral law, If repentance is necessary for salvation then God must grant repentance unto salvation when He, "1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

It is not faith and adding repentance, it is a faith that is connected with repentance, as you cannot have one without the other in salvation according to Jesus and the testimony of the whole counsel of God's Word. They are two sides of the same coin in salvation. The problem comes when we do not consider the whole counsel of God and hone in on one aspect above the other, ignoring other clear truths of God's Word. We err when we say that one can believe unto salvation without repenting of one's sins. For in doing so we end up with this "hyper-grace" licentiousness of which we are warned over and over in scripture.

Again, if the preaching of repentance was good enough for our Lord, the prophets, the apostles and disciples it is good enough for me.

Oracio Wrote: """It is not faith and adding repentance, it is a faith that is connected with repentance, as you cannot have one without the other in salvation according to Jesus and the testimony of the whole counsel of God's Word."""

Yes, I totally agree, I thought that is what I said.
"If repentance is necessary for salvation then God must grant repentance unto salvation when He, "1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

They both, grace and repentance come from God. Grace and repentance comes with salvation. We get the whole bucket of Grace, which entails all that God has done in Christ Jesus, "It is truly finished" In Christ.

I think we are splitting hairs, but the same hair.

By the way, what is hyper Grace? Is it something man has added to God's Grace to fit his mold of salvation, if so where in the bible is it's warning touched upon.

In Christ, by Grace through Faith, repenting and confessing opposition to God, being cleansed from all unrighteousness by the Blood shed on the Cross, finishing God's plan;

Ephesians 1:3-23 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Thank you Oracio for your understanding of God's Word that we might; 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Phillip

2 Corinthians 6:1  We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

there you have it, it is possible to receive the grace of God in vain.

Some people want to be saved in their sins, not saved from their sins. Here sin apparently does not defile anymore, and heaven is also for the unholy. Repentance then lost its meaning and necessity,

someone called that hyper-grace, a fictious grace that stretches and corrupts the true grace of God according to the vain imaginations and not-regenerated minds of its victims.

So it really does not exist, except as a perception. That promotes spiritual ignorance and death on part of the deceived. Yet claiming to be the original. No living and submissive faith required, just a flat legalistic understanding of grace. Once mentioned, always guaranteed. No further commitment or interest required. Overcoming is optional or even better for other people, and what happened in Sardis stays in Sardis. No blotting out of names, ignored or replaced with osas.

Why is the last church of the Laodiceans, also the last church in the timeline of churches not called 'the church in Laodicea'? Because it's not Jesus' church, it belongs to the people, they teach their own doctrines and only include His name within Their allowed contexts. Just because someone wakes up when 'it's all gone too far' to detect the perversion of "hyper-grace" can still potentially mean that one follows a popular Laodicean "cheap grace" gospel instead, that offers added 'future benefits' but otherwise leaves 'the old you' intact. No cross, no conversion, only always learning, never coming to understanding of truth.

How do you know when the majority teaches watered down half-truths? Minimum, or no persecution, the world doesn't hate its own.

Matthew Poole's Commentary on the Holy Bible
2 Corinthians 6:1
Chapter Summary
2Co 6:1-2 Paul entreateth the Corinthians not to frustrate God's grace, 2Co 6:3-10 setting forth his own inoffensive, painful, and patient demeanour in the discharge of his ministry, 2Co 6:11-12 of which he telleth them he spake more freely out of the great love he bare them, 2Co 6:13 challenging the like affection from them in return. 2Co 6:14-15 He dissuadeth from any intimate connections with unbelievers, 2Co 6:16-18 Christians are the temples of the living God.

Ver. 1. We then, as workers together with him: ministers of the gospel are fellow workers together with Christ; though but as instruments, serving him as the principal Agent, and efficient Cause: he trod the wine press of his Father's wrath alone, and had no partner in the purchase of man's salvation; but in the application of the purchased salvation, he admits of fellow workers. Though the internal work be his alone, and the effects of his Spirit upon the souls of those whose hearts are changed; yet there is a ministerial part, which lieth in exhortation and argument, by the ear conveyed to the soul; thus ministers work together with Christ. And without him they can do nothing: they are workers, but they must have Christ work with them, or they will find that they labour in vain.

Beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain: grace signifieth any free gift; and it is in the New Testament variously applied; but here it signifies, the doctrine of the gospel, held forth in the preaching of it, which these Corinthians had received with the ears of their bodies. And this was Paul's, and should be every godly minister's, work, not with roughness, but with all mildness and gentleness, to beseech those to whom they preach the gospel, that they would believe and embrace it, and live up to the holy rules of it; without which, (as to their souls' benefit), all the kindness of God, in affording them the gospel and means of grace, is in vain, and lost: though God yet hath his end, and his ministers shall he a sweet savour to God, as well with, reference to them that perish, as those who shall be saved. For the effectual grace of God in the heart, that cannot be received in vain; nor is that here spoken of.

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible
2 Corinthians 6:1
7. The Example of the Apostle Paul; His Testings and Trials.

CHAPTER 6:1-13

He beseeches the Corinthians as coworkers, in view of the ministry of reconciliation, not to receive this grace of God in vain. This is not a contradiction of the doctrine of the security of a true believer. The apostle evidently was uneasy about some of these Corinthian Christians and feared that some had not received the grace of God in their hearts. Their conduct led him to this questioning. If the grace of God comes to man it may be received in vain and lead not to the blessed results in quickening power and real salvation for which it is given. "The security of His children is unquestionable, not so much through their perseverance, as men say, but by His power through faith; but the Corinthians needed and received faithful entreaty, for their ways were not such as became the gospel. They were compromising His glory, who had called them to the fellowship of His Son; and the apostle instead of comforting them with the blessed assurance of the close of Ro 8, would here exercise conscience as well as affection in presence of God's grace" (William Kelly).

Isaiah 55:1-6 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

The Grace of God will not return void, what He has sent will accomplish His plan that He has set apart for His great pleasure and the giving of the Son in those that He has chosen to believe, They will hear it: Isaiah 55:9-13 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

Even Paul says the elect will hear and turn to His Father and ours, that the Christ in us makes us all brothers and sisters in Christ and son's and daughters' to His Father.

These in vain; Ac 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Ac 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

These by the Grace from His hand and Spirit given:

Acts 28:28-31 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

This by True Grace will bring perfect salvation to God's elect, If the Son will set you free, we are free indeed, the children of God in His House that Christ prepares for the offspring of God. Christ will not loose any the Father has given Him.

In Christ: Phillip

Man hates the fact that he has no say in seeking Gods face.
Man wants so badly to see himself as good enough to seek God and it be his reward to acquire his own salvation.

Salvation and Repentance are a God thing. If it were not for God all mankind would be destroyed and in the hands of Satan's kingdom. Numbers 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

None does good, if none does good how can man repent and achieve salvation unless it is given by God?

Ecclesiastes 8:17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.

Even a live dog has a chance that God would grant him salvation as with the dead lion.

Ecclesiastes 9:2-4 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath. This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

It is God who is in charge when it comes to all that are chosen in Christ or in Satan, one unto eternal life and the other unto eternal separation from God.

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Ecclesiastes 9:4

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope,… That is, who is among the living, is one of them, and, as long as he is, there is hope, if his circumstances are mean, and he is poor and afflicted, that it may be better with him in time; see Job 14:7; or of his being a good man, though now wicked; of his being called and converted, as some are at the eleventh hour, even on a death bed; and especially there is a hope of men, if they are under the means of grace, seeing persons have been made partakers of the grace of God after long waiting. There is here a "Keri" and a "Cetib", a marginal reading and a textual writing; the former reads, "that is joined", the latter, "that is chosen"; our version follows the marginal reading, as do the Targum, Jarchi, Aben Ezra, the Septuagint, Syriac, and Arabic versions: some, following the latter, render the words, "who is to be chosen"1, or preferred, a living, or a dead man? not a dead but a living man: "to all the living there is hope"; of their being better; and, as Jarchi observes, there is hope, while alive, even though he is a wicked man joined to the wicked; yea, there is hope of the wicked, that he may be good before he dies;

for a living dog is better than a dead lion; a proverbial speech, showing that life is to be preferred to death; and that a mean, abject, and contemptible person, living, who for his despicable condition may be compared to a dog, is to be preferred to the most generous man, or to the greatest potentate, dead; since the one may possibly be useful in some respects or another, the other cannot: though a living sinner, who is like to a dog for his uncleanness and vileness, is not better than a dead saint or righteous man, comparable to a lion, who has hope in his death, and dies in the Lord. (Jesus Christ)

In Him: Phillip

Yes, repentance is necessary.

One must turn to The Lord to be saved. They are "turned" in a different "direction" before salvation.

Leviticus 19:4
4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods:I am the Lord your God.

2 Kings 17:13
Yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.

It's all about who we turn our hearts, towards.

Repentance is turning away from all that is not of God, to God. Turning from your own way to Him. This requires an act of one's will to choose to turn away from self and the world.

Before Christ, we are children of wrath by nature. We are turned away from Him. To come to Christ we must choose to turn towards Him and all who come to him (turning away from self), He will in no wise cast out.

Repentance is an act of the will and we must choose to turn from our wicked ways, towards The Lord. That is repentance.

This is not a one time decision. Staying "turned" towards The Lord is your new life, daily.

Pilgrim

This is not a one time decision. Staying "turned" towards The Lord is your new life, daily.

Pilgrim

_______________

yes living each moment in HIM, trusting and walking in HIM daily is what new life is all about. Sad to think so many believe that they made a choice at one time, had a little talk with GOD got that whole eternity thing taken care of so now they can go on living as LORD of their own life doing their own thing...they have no understanding what it means to take up their cross, to follow JESUS and live unto HIM.

God bless
mj

Quote: """This is not a one time decision. Staying "turned" towards The Lord is your new life, daily."""

We are the Bride of Christ. How does a bride become a bride?

Someone has to ask the bride to be, will you marry me?
The bride to be has to answer; YES. Now comes repentance, no more dating other persons, all turning is towards the Husband, always putting the Husband first, learning in love always to be in subjection to the Husband who loves me and gave Himself for me, Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 5:24-33 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Who has left His Father and has joined Himself to His Bride?
Then take her to His Fathers house, where we will live forever.

My repentance is when I turn away from my Husband that in repentance I would always return to the One That is my Loving Husband, Christ in me, Now living in my flesh, Who's Spirit is now my spirit, Who's mind is now my mind and who's body will be my body in the resurrection.

Not only a pillar of marriage, but a great mystery: speaking of Christ and The Church, His body, His Bride, giving it all to God the Father that God may be all in all.

May we all repent knowing that God by His Holy Spirit and the incorruptible Seed of His Son birthed in me, Know that our Husband is presenting unto Himself by His Work, a perfect Bride unto Himself, no spot or wrinkle.

In Christ: Phillip

Quote: """...they have no understanding what it means to take up their cross"""

There is only one cross I must take up;

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The only cross I have is His Cross that I am crucified on with Him.

My new life depends on His Cross and now life, my life in the flesh I live by faith in His Cross and what it did for all believers, "Christ liveth in me".

In Christ: Phillip

Growing up I had attended many types of services that 99% of the time wound up telling me I was going to hell if I didn't repent, so if I got saved once growing up, I got saved 100 times... all through fear tactics of the presenter, which never KEPT ME so called saved.

Then on my yearly Easter visit with my granny to her church 35 years ago along with no sleep and a huge hangover (I only went because I promised her). Christ spoke to me in an audible voice and I can tell you that He didn't demand that I repent. He wooed me there in my back-row seat and when it was all said and done, I said “Yes” and walked out of there a new creature in Christ. Repentance really did come later after I got into reading the word and found out that some things didn't fly with Him!

So, to answer the subject's question - repentance wasn't necessary for my salvation but it is one of the factors that keeps me close to him still.

I’m not saying repentance doesn't come first for some people; I don’t judge how other people come to the Lord... what really matters is that we let God woo people. I think we are so focused on our own theology of “how” to lead people to the Lord that we don’t let God be God in each person’s life, that there is a formula to follow instead of believing that it’s “the kindness of God LEADS us TO repentance,” The Creators kindness to His creation.

God bless you,
Lisa

There was a time when I thought I got right with God but years later I realized it was a "false conversion" experience which lasted a few months. I had not truly repented and trusted in Christ. I went through religious motions with false motives.

When I got soundly saved and was confronted with the idea that my prior religious experience was possibly a false conversion in which I had been deceived, my flesh resisted that thought. In my flesh I did not want to admit that I had been deceived. After all, my prior religious experience had seemed so real. But God clearly showed me it had not been genuine and I couldn't deny that.

Religious deception can be so subtle and it can be so hard for us to recognize it.

Lysa, if you're reading this I'm not saying for sure that your testimony or experience was that of a false conversion. But couldn't it be possible that you may have actually repented without realizing you did, since repentance is a deep work within the heart and is not always clearly noticable? Isn't it possible that when you said "Yes" to Christ you were at the same time saying "No" to your old self-life(repentance), though at the time you did not really understand all the ramifications of that decision?

If you did not repent when you came to Christ I highly doubt you could have been saved at that moment because it would go against the Word of God. If you did not repent, it is likely you were not born again yet and later on got saved when you repented. Otherwise Christ lied when He said that unless you repent you will perish. Just some thoughts.

Brother Oracio,

“If you did not repent when you came to Christ I highly doubt you could have been saved at that moment because it would go against the Word of God.” (huge grin) Brother, I am a new creature in Christ, no matter what you say or think. Maybe one of all those 100 or more times I ran to the altar worked, I do not know. Who knows? And by saying, "Otherwise Christ lied when He said that unless you repent you will perish. Just some thoughts," your assuming that I have never repented since then. Reread my original post past what you disagree with, pls.

But onto the most important point... let me see if I hear you correctly, you’re saying that when I said yes to Christ and no to my old self-life, that I repented and did not know that I repented? So if that be the case, you’re purporting there is a “new” foundation for repenting now? If this be the case then how many people in the world are saved by your new standards? I’d say tremendous amount which will challenge your theology a whole lot more than my example!!

God bless,
Lisa

“If you did not repent when you came to Christ I highly doubt you could have been saved at that moment because it would go against the Word of God.” (huge grin) Brother, I am a new creature in Christ, no matter what you say or think. Maybe one of all those 100 or more times I ran to the altar worked, I do not know. Who knows? And by saying, "Otherwise Christ lied when He said that unless you repent you will perish. Just some thoughts," your assuming that I have never repented since then. Reread my original post past what you disagree with, pls.

There seems to be a misunderstanding of what I wrote. That's why communicating like this falls so short sometimes :) I meant to say that it's possible that you weren't really saved when you sayd, "Yes", but later on may have gotten saved when you repented. I knew you had written that you had since repented.

But onto the most important point... let me see if I hear you correctly, you’re saying that when I said yes to Christ and no to my old self-life, that I repented and did not know that I repented? So if that be the case, you’re purporting there is a “new” foundation for repenting now? If this be the case then how many people in the world are saved by your new standards? I’d say tremendous amount which will challenge your theology a whole lot more than my example!!

God bless,
Lisa

What I meant was that there can be different levels of genuine repentance, some being more dramatic and obvious than others. Some people have a huge, heavy sense of conviction of sin and break down in loud sobbing when they repent, while others may undergo a more mellow type of repentance, yet in both cases there will be life-change if it is true repentance. Hope that helps a bit in clarifying some things sister.

God bless,
Oracio

Repenting is not words only but actions. Remember Jesus said, "These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me".

Repentance is turning away from all that is not of God and turning towards Him.

This is the stance of the Christian everyday. To be turned toward the Lord and away from all that is not of Him.

When our hearts are turned towards Him, He has us. Not just our lips, but our hearts.

Salvation is a process and the one that endures to the end and is still turned towards the Lord will be saved. The one that draws back and turns away from the Lord and is still turned away from the Lord at the end....well, we know God takes no pleasure in unbelief.

Not all people when they come to the Lord have the same depth of turning (repentance) towards the Lord. As they mature and grow in Christ and the Holy Spirit teaches them, revealing areas in their lives that are still not surrendered to the Lord, they turn that area in their heart to Him. Everyone is different and people receive different levels of revelation of the Lord and what they must do to begin following him.

Men tend to want an objective standard that they can codify and then pass people through their gauntlet of calibration and measure. And so, they create these systems of works. and righteousness.

He that shows mercy will receive mercy.

I have seen people fall in love with Jesus and been delivered of horrible addictions and yet be totally ignorant of other obvious things in their lives that will gradually fall away as they walk with Christ and their relationship grows through personal revelation.

When I first came to the Lord I repented of things that I knew to repent of. I turned away from my current life with its addictions. But, I had no clue what a totally surrendered life was all about and how much work lay ahead for the Lord in my life.

When Moses brought the Hebrew children out of Egypt, he came to a place where he could go into the wilderness or Canaan. He asked God where he should go and God said, take them into the wilderness because I want to test their hearts to see what is in them (if they love Me).

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

Psa 136:16 To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.

The wildnerness is God's mercy for us because He use the trials and tribulations that take place in the wilderness (world) to obtain more of our hearts and to bring to death (through the cross) all that is not of Him. He makes us aware of things in our heart that are not surrendered to Him so that we know what needs to be repented of (turn away from) and yielded to Him.

He will show you where you are weak so that you can turn it over to Him and He can then be strong in you in that area of your life.

Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

His mercy does indeed, endure forever for those who do not turn away from Him.

Pilgrim

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Quote: """Deut 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no."""

Did they? No

Can we in the wilderness keep His commandments? No

Only by the Christ that is in us can we ever come close.

This does not relieve me of seeking His face and try to live as Jesus does. The life I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. My wilderness is much different than the wilderness Israel walked through for forty years.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

How do I live, to be able to please God? I cannot, it must be the Christ that lives in me that is pleasing to God. This in no ways relieves me of repenting and confessing sin in my life and do my utmost to hold the Hand of the One who gave Himself for me and seek His face every day of my life, to in the best of my ability which will fail, I must seek His Faith, His righteousness, His life in me to follow Him all the days of my life.

This and this only can present me perfect to the Father;
"Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily."

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

How can I be perfect before the Father?

"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"

He is my life, my Cross, my all in all. He has made me perfect before the Father.

1 Corinthians 1:27-31 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

I am the foolish, I am the weak, I am the base things of this world, I am despised of God, but these things in me He has chosen to bring me out of these things and put me into Christ and Christ into me, who of God has made in me by His Glorious Son, unto us, wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption in Christ, that He and He alone will I glory in, His redemption, His giving me repentance and confession and God giving me cleansing from all unrighteousness. He is faithful and just I am not. Only By Jesus Christ can God look upon me as a son of God.
Oh! what Grace, wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, redemption, repentance, faith is in Jesus Christ, who only is my redeemer.

The Life I now live I live by the Faith of the Son of God.

In Christ who is my only Glory: Phillip

Our faith is tested daily in the wilderness, which is the world. Will we trust in the Lord or trust in ourselves? Will we go after strange gods or entrust ourselves to the One who saves? The Holy Spirit uses our situations everyday to work in our life for an eternal weight of glory conforming us to the image of Christ. The principles of tryings and testings are the same today as it was in the OT. Will we yield to the work of God in our lives or rebel and forsake Him?

Quote: """ Will we yield to the work of God in our lives or rebel and forsake Him?"""

He in me brings forth Labor in presenting me perfect in Christ, it is His working in me that brings forth perfection.

Do we still do this? 2 Chronicles 8:13 Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

Colossians 1:28-29 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Or are we to do this? Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
2Jo 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

The darkness of the Law is past, the true light of Christ now shineth in us by His Great Love poured out at the Cross.

The Love and Grace of the Cross has given me commandment, in Love which gives me Love unto my Savior and Lord and the brethren. What does God want, Obedience unto Christ in me, to Love of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit that bring forth this love in me. This the Law could not do.

That is why we are to labor in Him and not the Law.
Colossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Him, in Love: Phillip

Pilgrim777,..
Is that you,...the Scott,that is teaching on the web-site that you just gave ?

What I got to hear,I really appreciated.

And,...are you really in the Southern States ?

Thank you,
God bless,
elizabeth

I am so sorry,..for the repeat..
Please forgive me.

It seemed the submit button was not working,and........

Dear Phillip,

It is Christ in us,...working in us,...the Spirit of Grace working in us,...

The same,and continuing Grace,that drawed us to God,to repent,.. : turn
and go completely opposite from the the way we were going....toward the flesh,now,..turn toward God,..born again of the Spirit,and then being led by His Spirit,as he reveals the new way.

We came to Him in old dirty rags,..but now,He wants us,...by the help of His
Grace,to throw off those old dirty rags,and He wants to clothe us in righteousness,...as we follow His leading.

* Grace:"The Devine influence upon the heart,and it's reflection in the Life."

It is not the law,but the Spirit at work in us,..so that we labor in that Spirit of Grace,to bring about the Father's will,that He is laboring in us,..,through His
Grace,..The hope of bringing Him glory....( the reflection of this Grace'
workings in the Life )

Jesus said about Himself, "It is the Father that does the works ."
...it is He,..the Father that is drawing us,..He,it is,that is doing the works,..
if we will allow Him to clothe upon us.

When He was drawing me to Himself,..many years ago....He was saying,..
This has to go,...that has to go,..on and on and on.,..
He says,if we start to build a house, we must sit down and consider the cost,..or we might start and not be able to finish it.

He wants to build a house in us, to house the Holy Spirit.
What kind of house are we willing to pay the cost, for Him to build it ?

The cost is giving up of our will,...our way (a way) to His will,.." The Way"

In all gentleness of Hi s Love and care,
Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth,

Are you trying to correct me or are you agreeing with me, I don't quite know how to take your post. I agree with it.

Why do you not have a profile?

In Christ: Phillip

Hi Pilgrim,

I like what you wrote, in particular this is so true...
_________________________________________________________
Quote "Not all people when they come to the Lord have the same depth of turning (repentance) towards the Lord. As they mature and grow in Christ and the Holy Spirit teaches them, revealing areas in their lives that are still not surrendered to the Lord, they turn that area in their heart to Him. Everyone is different and people receive different levels of revelation of the Lord and what they must do to begin following him."

Quote "When I first came to the Lord I repented of things that I knew to repent of. I turned away from my current life with its addictions. But, I had no clue what a totally surrendered life was all about and how much work lay ahead for the Lord in my life."
_________________________________________________________

Someone I was discussing this similar subject with yesterday made a point that even Apostle Paul when he first met the Lord on the Damascus road had a limited understanding of what was required of him at that point. However he was 'willing' to submit (repent) to the Lordship of Christ. It is a decision of the heart to repent and then as God reveals more understanding to us of what we need to obey, we have already made that decision and will then 'bring forth fruit befitting repentance'.

Phillup,

Actually,I,too ,cannot quite understand what one is really saying,sometimes.
My words are just really plain,and thrown out there,...just as if I'm thinking along,and writing. Where some know how to really write things out with many words of explanation and one's with good understanding, can
understand it readily.

Phillip,I didn't quite know exactly what you were saying either,..I often noticed that you would say 'Christ in you,the hope of Glory',...but I really did not know if you ment He was in us to do a work in us in the hope that He would be Glorified...I am sorry about that.So I just wrote it out as I see it.

Thank you Phillup and God bless you,

elizabeth

Oh,and about my profile,..It does not say a lot about me,but I looked and it was there....maybe Greg would know.

by Christinyou on 2013/4/7 11:09:35

Quote: """ Will we yield to the work of God in our lives or rebel and forsake Him?"""

He in me brings forth Labor in presenting me perfect in Christ, it is His working in me that brings forth perfection.

The Lord desires that we yield and submit to His working in us and not to resist it.

Jas_4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Elizabeth,

Sometimes I don't know what I am putting in print either, then the understanding comes after the thoughts have been put in print.

I know that the new birthing, that is Christ being born again in me by the incorruptible Seed of the Father. When I look up all the scriptures about being born again, it is clear to me that God has put a new person in me, by birthing the Spirit of His Son in me and destroying the spirit of darkness and killing that spirit that was in me, that is the spirit of satan out and the Spirit of Christ in.

I know this has a whole new life that makes me a new creation life in Christ. The Spirit of Christ, The Holy Spirit promised from the Father, the flesh quickened by the new creation life in Christ. I struggle with the application of the new creature scripture says "I Am".

I do know that when I see improvement in my spiritual life which translates into my flesh life, I keep going back and using the change to make me who I think I am, that is, now I am acceptable to God. Then I have to stumble back into the new life I have in Christ and He, Jesus Christ in me making me approved unto God the Father by the Workmanship of Christ in me, and He in me, making me the only reason I am pleasing to God.

To me Paul is the only person that has been given the principles of this new life in Christ. Paul states this in all his epistles, but I still have a hard time keeping the full principle of grace and full placing of me in Christ and keeping Grace being Grace. I want to comingle my own works with what keep me in this position of pure Grace and depend upon His works in me and not intermingle my works with His, making me who I am. That is; what I do makes me right, not being who I am in Christ making me who I am to the Father. We who abide in Christ, know that this abiding makes us righteous as Christ is righteous, freeing us from self effort. That is why I don't believe that repentance in our own self effort has any value in giving me salvation or keeping me saved, it can only be the Work of Christ in me that makes us who we are in Christ.

Sorry, but the words keep flowing and I guess I could go on for hours.

So I will stop with this; Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

His works not mine, my labor in these works.

In Christ: Phillip

Pilgrim777,..
Is that you,...the Scott,that is teaching on the web-site that you just gave ?

What I got to hear,I really appreciated.

And,...are you really in the Southern States ?

Thank you,
God bless,
elizabeth

Hi elizabeth,

Glad you were blessed.

Scott is my friend. A fellow former Catholic. Did you hear Scott's video on 'Augustine and Original Sin'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVQ1t5i058Q&feature=player_embedded

Here is his youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/user/Skinski7/videos

Scott is from Tennessee and I am from Texas.

I am still formulating my opinions on many things and am always looking to "eat some good chicken while spitting out the bones".

Blessings,
Pilgrim

Pilgrim,

No, I did not see the video you are mentioning.
My iPad is so slow that sometimes,I just 'give up' trying to listen although
I might be very interested in hearing,..as I happened the other day on the first we-site you mentioned.

I do love some good Truth.

Thank you for this, ...I hope to check it out.

Bless you,
elizabeth