Talents

It is often said that the talent in Mathew chapter 25 means ability, however the word ability is also mentioned in that same verse from Mathew chapter twenty five. So we read “And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one; to each according to his several ability; and he went on his journey (v15). Clearly the two words “talent” and “ability” appear together and therefore cannot have the same meaning. They are in fact two different greek words in the original language. The talent mentioned in this verse carries the same kind of meaning as “money” or “coinage” carries, because although actual money is not intended, the “talent” in this verse is “like” money. It is of itself something having value and the ability to increase its value. On the other hand the “ability” referred to in this verse speaks of the moral character of a person. The three amounts of talents given indicates not only “quantity” but it is also a reflection of the moral character of the person to whom the talent is given. In short the Lord does not give five talents to one who does not have the moral character to profit from one talent for his master, but instead gives the five talents to the one who will profit for the master according to five talents. On the other hand everyone has sufficient moral character in Christ to profit from at least one talent, for the Lord’ sake. All the Lord asks of us is that we labour according to who we are in Him at the very least, and return some benefit from the “talent” or “talents” which the Lord gives.

This then brings us to the question of what is the talent. It is a measure of the calling of God in our lives. Faith, calling, gifts of the Holy Spirit, upbringing, ability to obey God, ability to be faithful to God, obedience to authority and perhaps many other such things. The talent is at very least that which God supernaturally invests in us throughout our lives in order to serve Him when He calls us to the vineyard to labour, in order that we might be profitable servants. As this investment is of God Himself it is able to grown and multiply just like real money is able to grow if it is put to use even in the smallest way. In short the talent is a responsibility and a duty to God Himself through Christ (the Master) to whom we have to give an account. It is evidence that we are servants of the Master and it is a requirement to serve the Master. It is also the basis for heavenly rewards.

So what is specifically the Lord's that we are to increase, will be judged by the increase, will prove or disprove our place in the visible church, and all gain goes back to Him, with no excuses for failure?

Life brother. Eternal life is the thing given which when received also comes with a calling of God and faith equal to that calling. Jesus said “whosoever cometh unto Me from his inner parts shall flow rivers of living water”. This flowing is either free of hinderance and therefore profitable, or else it is mixed with brackish water and produces a limited effect or else the cistern is stopped up completely because of a hard heart. This latter case was true in the parable with the servant who received the one talent. Of course if this is true, that the essential thing given which produces increase, is eternal life, then the servant with the one talent is not a false concert but simply a lazy servant. That raises a few questions!

Sorry friend, but God doesn't speak that way to those hidden in Christ.

Then there is nothing to say is there and your question becomes more like a lion in the thicket who's quiet murmurings are mistook for pain. Then as you draw closely to give some comfort the lion roars and makes good its escape into the night. Oh the fool who mistook the lion in the thicket for pain and saw not the lion who devours!

So by disagreeing that God would call His children lazy and wicked and send them to hell I'm a 'devouring lion'?

Maybe we're just having a bad day? Or do you imply God would say these things to those that have eternal life?

If I was having a bad day that certainly cheered me up. Thanks.

My own view is that they pertain to stewardship of the Kingdom of Heaven in the visible church, and however one can bring Christ increase. I have found no consensus online or in the commentaries and was wanting input if any others have any.

I believe the very same thing myself. Which is why the outcome of the lazy servant raises some difficult questions.

I would ask how can an unbeliever be a steward of the kingdom of heaven? You asked “How could a servant that received 'eternal' life be referred to as lazy, wicked, and be thrown into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth?” This is a much easier question to answer than how can an unbeliever be a steward of the kingdom of heaven! It isn’t possible to please God without faith. But the idea behind the talents does definitely appear to be evidence of stewardship and therefore the “increase” must be according to what is given. Perhaps some others will have some answers which will help.

I think it also shows that the Lords intent is to show that in this particular parable, He has counterfeit 'servants' in view as opposed to say those openly opposed to the gospel in Matt 22.

There are clearly tares and wheat growing together as the scripture tells us. As to what to make of the idea that a tare can be given the means to profit the kingdom of heaven is fundamentally a challenge to me. In fact I rather think that the tares choke the growth of the wheat somewhat and to that end actually harm the kingdom work. The two stewards on the other hand both achieved 100% increase in their efforts and service.

I have seen that many brethren have come to view the times we live in in this way. By which I mean that the general condition of the church in the west at least, being somewhat lazy, is described or else explained by those who are not lazy, as a problem of wheat and tares. In short the tares are unbelievers in the midst. Again if this were true it has to be said that many many believers in the west are not after all believers. But this is of course where things are going anyway. The best view of this appears to be to avoid the issue all together and focus on the "remnant" of faithful stewards who are then said to be the "true" church.

This does not sit well with me either, even though I do believe in a remnant who by God' hand alone are able to serve Him faithfully for the ultimate benefit of the many, including the faithless.

Just to make my position or understanding even less clear, I also believe in eternal security of those who are truly born again. And I don't make being born again so mystical and abstract a thing that it is possible to exclude most people. I base that belief primarily on what someone is in fact able to believe. On the other hand I hate the saying "once saved always saved". I prefer instead "you have been saved with an everlasting salvation". Hope that not too confusing.

I believe the talents in question represent love and grace and mercy and forgiveness. Jesus said that those who are forgiven much love much. There is and should be a correlation between how much we ourselves have been forgiven and how ready we are to forgive others, lest we become like the wicked servant that was forgiven a great debt and then demanded a smaller debt from an other and had him thrown in prison, oh how angry the King was.

We, as Christians, have been abundantly blessed with love and and grace and mercy and forgiveness, this is the currency of the Kingdom. God has invested so much in us and He certainly expects a return. We must invest that love and grace and mercy and forgiveness in others. This is the measure of our walk. I believe that this is how our " works," shall be measured, this is our works, to give unto others that which we have been given. Now, all the world has received these blessings, in that the Lord came and died for the whole world that the who-so-ever could be saved. The rain falls upon the the fields and also about the thorns. What has man done with this great outpouring? What has man done with such a great forgiveness of sins? The wicked man, who has suppressed the truth ( to bury, to hold down) in unrighteousness shall be cast into outer darkness...............bro Frank

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Re 20:11–15).

It may well be that there are many in hell at any given moment we may choose to have a peak. But one thing is for sure it is EMPTY when it is caste into the lake of fire. Whereas those who are found in hell at the time of the Great White Throne after the 1000 year KINGDOM, the beginning of which corresponds to the MASTER who went on a long journey, returning to establish his visible KINGDOM, are then judged according to their WORKS and those whose names were not written in the Book of Life were caste into the lake of fire for eternity. Hell is NOT the eternal resting place of the wicked. It is the lake of fire. No one who is an unbeliever can possibly serve Christ so as to produce any return on life. For without faith it is impossible to please God. Why would Christ give the same requirement to an unbeliever as to a believer. The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of grace. The gospel of the kingdom is for those who already believe and it is a gospel of works. Eternal life on the other hand is a free gift.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. (13) Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. (14) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: (15) For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (16) But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. (17) For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. (18) Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. (19) When any one heareth the word of the kingdom..."

We know that the context of the parable of the sower is how we receive the Word of God. So when Jesus says to the disciples that to him who has, much more will be given, and from him that has not, even that which he has will be taken away, He is talking about a heart that hears and receives the gospel.

There is no possibility that Jesus will remove from anyone the opportunity or power to believe in Him if they turn to Him in a repentant heart. This passage above is the explanation to the question as to why Jesus began to speak in parables to the people of Israel, but it has nothing to do with the lazy servant whatsoever. The explanation is from verse twelve and then from verse thirteen to verse seventeen. "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given”. This reality is revealed, in another place in the Lord’ words “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you” (John 15:16). There is another scripture which cannot be of any less importance to this understanding and corresponds to the moment Jesus rode into Jerusalem from the mount of Olives on an asses colt, “saying, “If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes (Luke 19:42). These words were expressly spoken to the Pharisees who said to Him, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples”. To make the point emphatic Jesus said “if you had known this day, EVEN YOU, the things which make for peace”.

Verse In Mark 3:22 we read of the moment when these same Pharisees, now on the Mount of Olives, blasphemed the Holy Spirit, by saying “He hath Beelzebub, and, By the prince of the demons casteth he out the demons”. It is directly after this blasphemy that Jesus stopped speaking plainly and began to speak in parables instead. The first of which parables was the parable of the sower according to Mark 4:3-8.. This parable is spoken to a multitude who is gathered by the sea of Galilee and is therefore in an open place where anyone could have come to listen freely. This included the Pharisee, now cut off from life. In this context, Jesus says when asked about why he had begun to speak in parables, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven” (v11-14). Returning in this sense is both personal to the pharisees who blasphemed the Holy Spirit as well, as can be seen in many other instances of the Jews generally and even the people in the end.

As was pointed out this saying “that they may see and not perceive, and while hearing they may not hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven” is a prophecy of Isaiah 10:9-12.

He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive;
Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
Their ears dull,
And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And return and be healed.”
Then I said, “Lord, how long?” And He answered,
“Until cities are devastated and without inhabitant,
Houses are without people
And the land is utterly desolate,
“The Lord has removed men far away,
And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land.

Also we see that the words spoken in Luke chapter nineteen conclude with this same prophecy, including the destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersia of Israel in 70AD.

It is clear therefore that the whole of the prophecy, which is given in part by Christ to the disciples in private, is given to the Pharisee in full, in public, and concerns both the pharisees as well as Israel itself. From the point, of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit onwards Jesus only spoke in parables. And the condition for being able to believe in Him from this point onwards became “let him who has an ear, hear”. Or “eyes to see”.

In John Chapter ten although Jesus speech is not said to be a parable nevertheless it is hidden from “the jews” who were gathered to listen to Him. In verse six it is written that Jesus spoke in a figure of speech and in verse twenty four “the Jews” asked the Lord to speak to them plainly. The Lord’ speech gave rise to a schism amongst the jews some saying that Jesus had a demon and other bearing witness of the Lords works, which could not possibly be the fruit of demonic power. Here in this verse alone is the proof of the outworking of what it means to have eyes to see or ears to hear. Jesus is asked, whilst standing in Solomon’ Portico to come right out with it and to say clearly whether He was the Christ or not. To which Jesus says, ““I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one” (John 10:25-30).

The reality of Isaiah’ prophecy is that it had to do with both the pharisees blasphemy as well as the blasphemy of other jews of no rank and in generality it had to do with Israel. It was worked out in everything which the Lord spoke after the pharisees blasphemed the Holy Spirit and it was fulfilled all the way to its fullness in the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of Israel. Even down to the part of the surrounding of the dwellings of the Pharisees who perished in Jerusalem in 70AD. What it has nothing to do with is the gentiles who would believe because the apostles believed and were given to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

This does not answer the original question but it does set out plainly two things. The first is that Jesus said, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish.” It also demonstrates that this prophecy of Isaiah cannot be used to justify the idea that the parable of the talents and the "lazy servant" meaning that the lazy servant is an unbeliever and therefore his being caste into outer darkness proves this point. For me the question still remains. How can an unbeliever be entrusted with life and the ministry of the kingdom of heaven? How will an unbeliever ever be able to produce an increase? Whilst yet in unbelief. It simply is not possible at all to produce an increase for the Lord whilst yet in unbelief.

The plain read of the parable shows the third servant heading south, therefore in the most sober and clear warning this servant is shown to be counterfeit, present in the visible church, but unarguably counterfeit. 

Therefore, the supposition that the talents represent eternal life, is of necessity to the text re a phrase that biblically always denotes hell, wrong. 

So, either the conclusion is that there are counterfeits in the church, or the other option put forward is that Eternal Life isn't that eternal after all. 


Ps. Matt 13:34 says it was parables for the multitudes.

Yes there is no doubt that the parable was for the multitude, many of whom in the end did have ears to hear and eyes to see and therefore would have no doubt recalled these things which Christ spoke to them later on when the actual Gospel of grace was preached beginning in Jerusalem. At this time though all these men and women had heard was the gospel of the kingdom. As those who were witnesses of John, who himself witnessed of Christ and who preached repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, were witnesses of the appearing of Messiah and therefore what they heard was all that which pertained to the kingdom of heaven.

Today we have not heard the words “repent for the kingdom is at hand” we heard “Christ crucified for sin and raised for our justification, repent believe and be saved”. This is the gospel of grace. Only then do we begin to comprehend that there is such a thing as the kingdom of heaven and only then can we begin to labour towards it. The parable of the talents speaks of the kingdom of heaven, which being presently far of, yet is near at hand because the deposit which brings forth eternal life is already with us. It is in us, as in an earthen vessel. This deposit is the gift of eternal life, but its outworking and fullness is not yet visible, unless we are broken and the seed or deposit is released to an increase it will prove to be unprofitable save for ourselves. The kingdom is also far off, even as the Master is far off, in that we are crucified with Christ, buried with Him in baptism, raised up with Him, ascended into heaven in His train and seated in Him at the right hand of the Father in heaven. For those who believe into Christ after the cross are more full than those who heard these words of Matthew chapter 13, as well as all the parables of the kingdom which followed immediately thereafter. They too would have to wait until pentecost before they would find their release into the reality of labouring for the kingdom.

The actual explanation of the parable of the sower is given from verse eighteen onwards:

“Hear then ye the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side. And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth. And he that was sown among the thorns, this is he that heareth the word; and the care of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

The preceding verses from verse eleven to verse seventeen were not an explanation of the meaning of the parable itself, they were rather an explanation as to what necessitated the speaking in parables and the condition of those who necessitated it. Verse twelve “For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath” speaks of the condition of the hearers who although they had the Christ were yet unable to believe in Him. This does not speak to the multitude of Israel, thought it does concern the multitudes of Israel. It is rather spoken to the disciples in private and as I say is an explanation of the condition of Israel. If we then look at the actual meaning of the parable which the Lord gives we can easily see that it has nothing to do with belief or unbelief in Christ Himself crucified for sin, which is the basis of eternal life, but is in keeping with the gospel of the kingdom and has to do with attitudes and faithfulness of those who labour in its power. “For the kingdom of heaven is not a matter of words but of power”. This message is not a matter of words, but a matter of power. The gospel of grace on the other hand is a matter of words and power because it is the proclamation of good news. It is faith by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The gospel of the kingdom is concerned with power and walking by faith in the power of the kingdom for the sake of the kingdom come, which kingdom will become visible when King Messiah, the Christ of Israel Himself appears in visibility. For where the King is, there is the Kingdom.

This is how it was in the time of the apostles. We read “But when they believed, Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike Acts 8:12. First believe and then hear about the kingdom of heaven. In the same way from verse twelve again we read “For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath.” The first “hath” here points to the one who amongst those who believed in Christ, would also receive an increase. This increase is the knowledge of the kingdom, which the disciples were elected and chosen to know, and the “hath not” points to the one in the multitude who did not believe in Christ. Finally the “from him shall be taken away even that which he hath.” points to Christ Himself hiding Himself from Israel because though He was come to them, they rejected Him. So the Lord hides Himself from this time onwards.

There is no supposition on my part that the meaning of the talents represents eternal life. The meaning of the talents represents that which is the increase of eternal life, in short the means by which it is possible to labour towards an increase of the kingdom of heaven.

This then brings us to the question of what is the talent. It is a measure of the calling of God in our lives. Faith, calling, gifts of the Holy Spirit, upbringing, ability to obey God, ability to be faithful to God, obedience to authority and perhaps many other such things. The talent is at very least that which God supernaturally invests in us throughout our lives in order to serve Him when He calls us to the vineyard to labour, in order that we might be profitable servants. As this investment is of God Himself it is able to grown and multiply just like real money is able to grow if it is put to use even in the smallest way. In short the talent is a responsibility and a duty to God Himself through Christ (the Master) to whom we have to give an account. It is evidence that we are servants of the Master and it is a requirement to serve the Master. It is also the basis for heavenly rewards. amrkelly

This is what I shared and no where do I say that the talent is eternal life. What I shared was that I believed that the talents were a measure of the calling of God in our lives, as well as the evidence that we are servants of the Master (among other things). What this means to me is really very simple. No one who is an unbeliever could possibly labour towards the kingdom of God. So then we are left with the only possible thing to say which is CAN A BELIEVER BE SENT INTO OUTER DARKNESS WHEN THE LORD JESUS RETURNS IN THE VISIBILITY OF HIS KINGDOM?

The answer to that question will make for a wicked and lazy servant or a faithful and obedient son. Such a day in which we live when the kingdom of heaven is at hand makes this parable all the more important to understand soundly.

I really don’t believe we need to concern our selves as believers with eternity. If we had not been saved with an everlasting salvation then the scriptures would not tell us that we are saved with an everlasting salvation. Yet it does, and not just once, but many times. What we need to concern ourselves with I believe is the coming kingdom of heaven. The parable of the talents is concerned with that fact and that fact alone. This parable also shows that the opposite to being in the kingdom of heaven for the believer or steward means “outer darkness. Yet the darkness will pass away even as these heavens and this earth will pass away. When the nations of the earth have become the kingdom of heaven, heralded by the cry of an angel, so also after 1000 years the kingdom will pass away, heralded by armageddon. Yet as it has been said in this post, eternal life is Christ in us and all those who believe in Christ. It is not eternity which should concern us but the coming kingdom!

In the end ceedub you have answered your own enquiry the most perfect. It is so simple that even a child may understand it.

ceedub asked:

What exactly do the talents represent in Matt 25?

ceedub wrote:

It's interesting that all servants who endeavour to bring their master an increase succeed? Maybe this is another hint that we need to labour in faith and the word will not return void

"Praise God in the Highest and His Name in all the earth."

I don't know if you might have missed it,...but the last question that ceedub
asked before he/she edited it was:
" how is doctrine or theology man made" ?

And with a little more thought on the talent,...our Master gives us a talent,
But He is the Master,..we are the servant,...we operate under His Head/
....desiring His directing,...not being ashamed,...and hiding it,..or fearing man,..because His directing Word many times brings an affence..

Also Andrew,you were saying , "I don't believe,as believers we need to concern ourselves with eternity."...
With all due respect Andrew,don't you think we need to be concerned with the whole counsel of God ? Isn't God One ?,..Isn' the Word one ?

I am so thankful that we can have these discussions and not be offended. Elizabeth

Yes I "saw" the missing question in your own posts sister. Although I do not comprehend the relative context of it. However, it seemed more important to me to stick to the centrality of the relevance of the question in the OP which I could comprehend and not go off on another tangent. Having already raised a few questions which appeared to infer one position and then similarly having stated the complete opposite emphatically, I didn't want to be a hypocrite and disregard ceedub' final or else last post, which is in my understanding a very wise statement. In view of the original question which has nothing to do with eternal life in the sense which we ordinarily understand these things, rather the kingdom of heaven and entrance therein; and in view of the attitude of the wicked and lazy servant, who didn't find an entry, the thing which matters appears to be other than an issue of life; as per Matthew chapter twenty five.

Ceedub expressed an understood of this pretty much from the second post he made, but quiet reasonable pointed out that the wicked and lazy servant could not be a believer, because believers already have eternal life. Every other post of my own has been in seeking to demonstrate that the wicked and lazy servant could not be anything but a believer. The obvious difficulty then between these two presentations, my own and Ceedub' lies in the interpretation and meaning of outer darkness. Or to put it the way Ceedub put it, the wicked and lazy servant "went south". The question then became "how can a believer experience hell?" or "how can a believer experience outer darkness?" In Ceedub' mind this is a defiant contradiction to the truth. As most of the other posts, though not all of them were drawing another conclusion which supported the notional proposition that a believer may end up in hell, it clearly has to be clarified somewhat further otherwise young believers will have no confidence to serve the Lord and will labour in fear and not the love of the Lord. To that end I have written a "small" piece which elaborates my own understanding fully without explanation per se, which I will post when it seems right to do so. The last "little" post I made was to simply share with ceedub that blackest darkness will pass away. It is not eternal after all! Then Ceedub posted his last post which states that if any servant will infact work the outcome will always be profitable. That I believe is the correct focus in the end. All the debate is just a seeking to arrive at it. Of course I could just be a complete heretic myself, in which case I'm headed south!

Why is the scripture from cover to cover full of exortations for the 'believer' to take warning and beware as not to fall ?? proudpapa

Answer:

Because a believer may very well end up in a compartment of hell known as blackest darkness during the kingdom. Just to say it, I can't say what ceedub was thinking, I am basing my comment on what he has shared. In fact if we just read what we share with one another with a little more thought there would be very many less misunderstandings, apart from how sensitive we are to one another or ourselves.

Your first point of explanation in your last post appears to be a rationalisation of two ideas. The promises in John chapter ten as well as warnings about temptation. An obvious conclusion in the context of Matthew twenty five and the wicked lazy servant is.......you are no longer talking about the wicked lazy servant.

When you speak about hyper-calvinism as an extreme reaction to John chapter ten and the unspecified warning of scripture to resist temptation you are speaking about any believer who knows the promises of John ten and the same believer who knows he has to resist temptation, Clearly this is a problem because it is a profound shift of meaning and therefore sows confusion. The comment about having an attitude to labour faithfully however is a good answer to the wicked and lazy servant. Clearly labouring is the opposite of laziness. If there is faithfulness in labouring then their is no outer darkness and no need to have to say to the Lord “I knew that you........”

Just to conclude however, there is no issue of temptation with the wicked and lazy servant, in fact he clearly shows that he has not lost anything at all. If he had been walking in some continuous sin, recklessly in disregard of the gift of life, he would be a great deal more than diffident at the Lord’ appearing, he would be truly afraid. As it is his confidence is truly astonishing. His wickedness is evident in his attitude even before the Lord. Not only this he absolutely makes it clear that he knew the Lord. He says ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.’ Not only does this man acknowledge that he knew the Master, but the Master Himself confirms it by saying ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.’

I really cannot understand ,...follow you too well in just what you are trying to say.

I did not speak anything about hyper-Calvinisim,...I am not formiluar with him,..and have never read any of his material.

What I know, my learning of The Lord,...the Word,...I spend alone, with the
Precious Lord' / His Spirit teaching me,....that is what I rely on .

I, like you, am expressing,what I have to offer, to what is asked,...and also
Knowing that I am accountable to my Master/ Lord.,....and feeling what
He teaches me,..helps me with, I humbly I might ought to share,..and not
Hide it in the earth.

It is truly NOT my intention to offend,...

elizabeth

Hi Sister. I wasn't addressing your post. Sorry. I realise that I followed yours so it must have seemed that way. It was ceedub' posts I was addressing. Nothing you have shared would offend me sister.

Where in scripture have you developed the temporal outer darkness? I read of a similar idea 20 some years ago in A book about the Mountain of God by one of those Midwest Prophets. ceedub

There are just two references to "outer darkness" in the scriptures the first is in Matthew 22:13, 25:30. Both have to do with the Lord' servants, both have to do with the appearing of the kingdom of heaven.

There are numbers of uses of the term "darkness" and they all have real meaningful context if we have a mind to see it.

To that end this is my answer to your question.

As with so many revelations in the scriptures the term darkness has one central characteristic and meaning and then many applications. It doesn’t require understanding to know that the sun has set and the darkness of the night has come. It simply requires one to look into the brightness of the day and see that it has gone, and darkness has taken its place.

Psalm 97:2 tells us that even God Himself is surrounded by darkness. At the same time the same scriptures tells us that “God is Light and in Him there is no darkness at all”. Here is one kind of darkness and here is the centrality of what darkness means throughout scriptures. Even when the term is used to describe all that which is darkness, it simply means that the true Light does not shine in that place. Whether it is the hearts of men, or in the world or in hell, or death or a nation, it is the same meaning in centrality. It means where the light of God does not yet shine or from where the light of God is withheld or where the light is rejected. In the case of the Psalm 97:2 the light shines perfectly behind the clouds but from without, even the light cannot be comprehended except that God reveals Himself.Clearly there is no lack of light in the presence of God. All is Light in His presence. So it is very easy to see that whilst God Himself is Light, He is hidden to those who will not seek Him out or else who do not receive His witness. The hidden reality of God Himself means that all who walk outside of His Light and life are in darkness as well (Luke 11:35).

Jesus said “The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it (John 1:5). This is also darkness. It is the darkness of the world and the darkness of not comprehending the Light.

In seeking therefore to understand the meaning of “outer darkness” be it in context of why Jesus began to speak in parables (Mark 4:3-8), or else in the reality of speaking of all men who take the name of the Lord and will one day give an account to Him when He comes in His kingdom, darkness becomes “put away from the Light, or in the case of Israel, Light is become “hidden” except to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see. In the case of Israel this “hiding of the Light” ultimately meant that when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on an asses colt, Israel as well as the pharisees who represented them, did not comprehend the time of visitation of Christ their King. Had they done they would have had peace as the passage of scripture says in John 15:16. As it was the Lord tells them in tears that there portion is become tribulation.

As to those who have believed after the death and resurrection of Christ for sin, being “cast out”, this is primarily at the time of the kingdom come. It also has another meaning. If we also have the same mind as Israel had and prefer the darkness of our own selves to the Light of obedience and faithfulness we too will suffer as they suffered when Jerusalem was destroyed and the children of Israel were killed or else scattered. For us today the loss of our peace will be similar to Israel, but it will also be more significantly knowing, at the time of the kingdom come that we have no part in it. The “outer darkness” therefore is in contrast with the Light of the kingdom, which is Christ reigning in Jerusalem as King of Israel and King of kings over the nations through those who reign with Him in the Light of His countenance over all the earth. For those who are alive when Jesus returns in the clouds, if they are not dressed in readiness they will be perfected through tribulation. Those who have already fallen asleep will be measured according to their day. The most fearful thing will be to reject the day in which we live and to choose ones own peace, thereby to deny Christ before men with a mind to take our ease. Therefore arm yourself with a mind to suffer even as He suffered, as it is written. If we choose to suffer as He suffered we will not only find true peace, but we will be found to have been good stewards as well at His return. If not we will be scattered without the shepherd of our souls in a day of tribulation or else in the day of visitation, which is Christ come. In this we will suffer unnecessarily (2 Peter 1:11).

Because the kingdom at this time has become a physical place and has a physical beginning and a physical end, measured by Revelation as 1000 years (20:2-7), so the corresponding “outer darkness” is also measured as well. Other wise even those who take the name of Christ and have believed in Him and the Father would not have eternal life. Yet Jesus said, that believing in the Father and Him Who the Father has sent, is eternal life. Finally, where is the physicality of “outer darkness” then? It is outside the kingdom, where there is no Light and it is a compartment of hell, where there is regret and suffering for rejecting the righteous demand of the Father to obey His son and to follow Him. It is prison and not the kingdom.

If the Father was pleased with His Son and bore witness of it by the hand of John, as well the voice of the Father speaking from heaven with a loud voice, as well at the table of His supper feast, where the Father bore witness once again of His Son,how can men say that “I knew you were a hard master, reaping where you have not sown”. Yet bearing witness of Himself, said “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”. Only a wicked and lazy servant would say otherwise for no more reason than the delights of his soul and to take his ease. Rather than the true rest of Christ which is the cross unto death and obedience in all things unto His glory and praise. The one who would rather take his ease is the wicked servant.

More perfectly, if the Spirit Himself has born witness with our spirit’ crying Abba Father, how can we say that we have no witness of Christ surpassing that which Israel heard at the Jordan, and the disciples heard at the supper feast, how can we say “He is a hard master, when the Father says by the Holy Spirit you are become my children and my Righteousness in Him. It is to despise the Father and to deny the Son. How will we find an easy entrance into His Kingdom which is His reward for His faithfulness and obedience, and not comprehend that we also must be faithful and obedient also?

Even the darkness is not dark to You,
And the night is as bright as the day.
Darkness and light are alike to You.
For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother’s womb.
I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skilfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
If I should count them, they would outnumber the sand.
When I awake, I am still with You.

Psalm 139:12-18

Would this be consistent with "first fruits" as opposed with any latter fruit?

Would this be consistent with "first fruits" as opposed with any latter fruit?Noah

“Three times a year you shall celebrate a feast to Me. “You shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread; for seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the month Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. And none shall appear before Me empty-handed. “Also you shall observe the Feast of the Harvest of the first fruits of your labours from what you sow in the field; also the Feast of the Ingathering at the end of the year when you gather in the fruit of your labours from the field. Exodus 23:14-16

Exodus 34:22, Numbers 28:26, Deuteronomy 16:10 & 2 Chronicles 8:13.

“You shall bring the very first of the first fruits of your soil into the house of the Lord your God. Exodus 34:26

Thats a very perceptive question brother and it makes me stir a little because to me it provokes something which has to do with the very times we live in which make the answer to your question broader than the question itself. The simple answer to your question is that the deliverance of those who are imprisoned during the kingdom and are released from imprisonment do not represent a latter harvest. They are already included in the harvest of the first fruits, even Christ Himself (1 Corinthians 15:20). Their imprisonment is a holding to account by the Lord to settle their debts to Him as stewards of His possessions (Matthew 6:12, 18:27, & 18:32). Of course any one of us could repent and turn at any time, so long as we have the day, and the Lord will forgive us our debts here and now, as He intended it to be when He died for us (Colossians 2:14). How merciful the Lord is to us!

armkelly,

Mt 25:25 as you quoted from the New Testament states; (" "). My King James version says; And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. 26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: 27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have recieved mine own with usury. 28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. 29 For unto everyone that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: arkp

The word φοβηθείς from φοβέω of Matthew 25:25 is afraid. It is translated afraid in the AV, ASV. NASB. ESV, and even in the paraphrase versions TM, & TLB, all agree.

Simply following your post and nothing more you have said that the parable of the talents is essentially a matter of investment. Then you have gone on to speak of Scottrade online Investment Banking. Which I assume is a way of reinforcing the idea of the talents being a source of and a requirement to invest.

You then share that the parable of the talents begins with the parable of the ten virgins. I agree that the parable of the talents is preceded by the parable of the ten virgins.

Your point concerning the parable of the wise and foolish virgins seems to be that the “oil” is the same in meaning to the “usury” of the talents, and that this “oil” or “increase or usury” is achieved by investment. Literally that “oil” as well as “increase or usury” can be purchased” by investment.

You share that the economic climate of the world being what it is today is a cause for anxiety, but that placing ones confidence in the Kingdom of heaven first and foremost is a better attitude.

Then you share again about other parables, and liken, “talent” with “city”, in that talents becomes more talents and more talents becomes equal to being trusted with greater responsibility of the Masters possessions when He comes, which then becomes not just talents but equates to rule over cities.

Again you then share that a talent is a great deal of money and that in essence this vast amount of money becomes [like] a debt, which cannot be easily shaken off or repaid. You use the UK Man Group Plc investment management company and their efforts to turn around their falling share price, due to losses in the AHL fund in part, by the acquisition of GLG and a change in CEO as well as other measures to stem losses and improve the standing of the principle responsible party to get a good return (12%).

What you appear to be saying is that wise management of money given in trust if invested wisely will return a profit.

Well my friend for the first time in a long time I am at a loss for words. If what I have taken from your posts is accurate then I can only agree with you in principle that wise use of the trust and resources which the Lord has given those who believe in Him will always return a profit for the Lord and result in a greater degree of trust by Him towards His faithful servants, in His Kingdom when it appears. Bless you brother for your efforts.

As previously stated, I post a fuller report of what I have personally come to believe regarding the coming Kingdom and what that means for those who are born again. Of necessity this must touch upon what eternal life means as well as everlasting life. A distinction few ever make. There is a far better exposition of these things to be found in the ministry of Watchman Nee. For myself I have been thinking on these things for very nearly three decades and have been tested and have tested the saying "once save always saved" and found it lacking. This is because it excludes what a fuller meaning of salvation is. This must be the whole man and not simply parts. It must be spirit, soul and body. If we simply comprehend the spiritual reality of being born again, and neglect to realise that the faithless soul suffers also, we will come to an unbalanced view of salvation, and in the end we will declare "once saved always saved". No doubt this seems a reasonable thing to say for the one who has comprehended that eternal life really does mean eternal. Yet if we took the same partite view of salvation and spoke of the spirit and the obedient soul, yet neglected the body how could we say we are fully saved. It would be to shrink back from Christ as the disciples did, not yet comprehending that Christ was raised from the dead in His body, in which ignorance they thought they were seeing a ghost. As far as this particular thread is concerned the question concerned talents as of Matthew chapter twenty five. It speaks of one who is a believer, but also a steward. If all we ever comprehend is what we have been given freely, and do not comprehend that which is required of us also, we will in the end of this age suffer loss. How then will we say in that hour. I was saved once and am still saved, if we then comprehend that we have been foolish, lazy and wicked and finally realise our soulish tendencies to please ourselves and not obey Christ.

However:

I really don’t believe we need to concern our selves as believers with eternity (Ecclesiastes 3:11). If we had not been saved with an eternal salvation then the scriptures would not tell us that we are saved with an eternal salvation (Isaiah 43:13, 45:17 Hebrews 5:9). Yet it does, and not just once, but many times (Mark 16:20, John 3:15-16, 5:24, 6:40, 6:47, 10:28, 2 Timothy 1:9 1 John 2:25). What we need to concern ourselves with I believe is the coming kingdom of heaven (Isaiah 9:7, Matthew 6:33, Acts 1:3, Acts 19:8, Acts 20:25, 2 Thessalonians 1:5, 2 Timothy 4:1). The parable of the talents is concerned with that fact and that fact alone. This parable also shows that the opposite to being in the kingdom of heaven means “outer darkness. Yet the darkness will pass away even as these heavens and this earth will pass away. When the nations of the earth have become the kingdom of heaven, heralded by the cry of an angel (Rev 11:15), so also the kingdom will pass away, heralded by armageddon. Yet as it has been said in this post, eternal life is Christ is us and all those who believe in Christ. Eternity on the other hand will exist even for those who are in the lake of fire. Eternity and eternal life are synonymous yet different. Could we say that Satan who is to be in the lake of fire for eternity has eternal life? Or the false prophet, or the beast? We know their end because it is already written; it is the lake of fire. First the false prophet and the beast (Revelation 19:20), and then lastly Satan (Revelation 20:7) according to the order of scripture (Revelation 20:10). This order itself has to do with the coming kingdom. The false prophet and the beast are cast into the lake of fire when the kingdom commences, which corresponds to the appearing of Christ. Satan is cast into the lake of fire when the kingdom comes to an end on this earth, which corresponds to physical Armageddon. Then comes the judgement of the Great White Throne. Being cast into outer darkness does not correspond to eternity. It corresponds to the kingdom of heaven on earth, which is a measure of 1000 years (Revelation 20:2-7).

In this period of time which is measured by the return of the Lord Jesus and the Great White Throne, there is both the heavens and the earth, the kingdom and outer darkness; there is death and there is hell! Hell and Death are synonymous, yet speak of two dominions and two keys (Revelation 1:18). The establishment of the Kingdom and outer darkness are synonymous, yet speak of two dominions a well as keys. The Establishing of the Kingdom of Heaven is given to Christ (Revelation 1:18) where as the keys of the power of the Kingdom are given to the church (Matthew 16:19). Similarly, as with life, there is life and there is abundant life. Eternal life, which is at once Christ in us, yet for those who reign with Christ also, for 1000 years, life becomes abundant life. Abundant life is expressed in the kingdom with Christ as his priests and kings over the nations. Life is the free gift of God to all who ask, believing that He is. Abundant life is faithfulness in all that which we are given when we believed (talents).

All men born of Adam die and all men born of Christ will live (1 Corinthians 15:22) Death is a reality even for the one who has life in Christ and has Christ in them. As it it is written “It is appointed unto men to die once then cometh judgement (Hebrews 9:27). All will die yet not all will spend their eternity in the lake of fire, because as it is written “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25-26). Hell already exists and it was created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:31). Today it is also the store house for tormented souls who are perishing or else are imprisoned (Luke 16:23-28). Outer darkness does not yet appear, because it cannot be comprehended until the corresponding light of Christ in full visibility appears also. Then as it is written, “we shall be like Him because we shall see Him as He is”. To have the life of Christ yet to be cast out of the kingdom is outer darkness. It is to see Christ at His return, as those who have believed [stewards] yet to be rejected by Him from His kingdom. It is written, no man can see the kingdom, nor enter therein accept he be born again” (John 3:3). Yet outer darkness is not the lake of fire, though it may well be a compartment of hell. Yet even hell is not the eternal resting place of tormented souls, for it too, having given up the dead that is in it, is also cast into the lake of fire, along with death which shall also give up those yet held by its power (Revelation 20:13-14). All this is at the last judgement of Christ when those whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). Howbeit that those who have life can also taste hell? Or howbeit that at the last judgement of the Great White Throne, death and hell give up they that are in them? What is hell and what is death? What is the kingdom come? What is outer darkness?

Then as it is written, those whose names are NOT written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire, wherein are the false prophet, the beast and satan. Is God the author of confusion? Does He raise the dead at the end of the age to judge their works after the kingdom of 1000 years is complete only to pronounce the second death on every soul of man which has no part in the kingdom? Or does God mock men also, and leave His wicked and lazy servant who is without the kingdom, despairing of even life itself, though he believe in Christ? Will they not be saved as it is written. “Whosoever believeth on Me, will not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). That which is set before all men, is faith in Christ crucified for sin unto eternal life, and thereafter for those who believe, it is the cross of obedience unto the kingdom. Believing, is everlasting life, it is to live and not to perish. Stewardship is seeking the kingdom of heaven faithfully and wisely, it is abundant life. It is to reign with Christ in the kingdom.

“And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. “He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it. “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. “He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. “And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.” Matthew 10:38-42

“If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. “For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Matthew 16:24-27

Hi amrkelly

Do you believe in a distinction between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven? proudpapa

I don't think the thought has ever crossed my mind independently, although I vaguely recall having read something in the distant past which seems relevant. I may however understand the immediate relevance of the question in light of what I have shared in this post. It seems to be a provocative [sound] question to ask and appears to correspond to what I shared about the difference between the meaning of eternity and everlasting which I have thought about. It would be interesting to hear what you have understood or heard about these two sayings yourself as you have the reason for asking.

Then, I would say,maybe a month, two,three,..one morning as I was rising
out of bed,it just flowed out of my spirit,...' The kingdom of God,is the resurrected Lord in us '! I would never have worded anything that way !

So that morning,as soon as I could,I began to search the Word to confirm
what I was told.It was so exciting.YES,It was true.
In the old Testament The Lord wanted man to hear and obey,..and in the 
New Testament,the Lord wanted us to be in His kingdom,where He,the King wants us to be led by the Spirit of God,and obey.

So,as we know,where there is a kingdom,there is a King,and that King is Jesus.and He has taught me,that He has come into us,by way of the 
Holy Spirit,to rule and be Lord in our lives....or else how can we call Him 
Lord,Lord....and yes,He is long suffering,and merciful Father.

The Gospel Is truly,The Gospel of the kingdom

I noted the words of Elizabeth and your own response and encouragement of them in the post. At the time I wondered what was being addressed by the things Elizabeth shared. Now a few days later and having had more time to reflect I am confirmed that they were spoken into this:

Today we have not heard the words “repent for the kingdom is at hand” we heard “Christ crucified for sin and raised for our justification, repent believe and be saved”. This is the gospel of grace. Only then do we begin to comprehend that there is such a thing as the kingdom of heaven and only then can we begin to labour towards it. The parable of the talents speaks of the kingdom of heaven, which being presently far of, yet is near at hand because the deposit which brings forth eternal life is already with us. It is in us, as in an earthen vessel. This deposit is the gift of eternal life, but its outworking and fullness is not yet visible, unless we are broken and the seed or deposit is released to an increase it will prove to be unprofitable save for ourselves. The kingdom is also far off, even as the Master is far off, in that we are crucified with Christ, buried with Him in baptism, raised up with Him, ascended into heaven in His train and seated in Him at the right hand of the Father in heaven. For those who believe into Christ after the cross are more full than those who heard these words of Matthew chapter 13, as well as all the parables of the kingdom which followed immediately thereafter. They too would have to wait until pentecost before they would find their release into the reality of labouring for the kingdom.

Although on a casual observation these two posts appear to be contradictory they are in agreement. The agreement concerns the day of pentecost and the sending and receiving of the Holy Spirit, as well as the reality of possessing eternal life. The saying where there is a kingdom there is a king ought to speak of Christ seated in heaven in view of the fact that Christ Jesus is physically seated in heaven. In the same way the saying where the king is, there is the kingdom, ought to speak of Christ in us the hope of glory, due to a life relationship with Christ. They are in reality interchangeable because although Christ Jesus is physically seated at the right hand of the Father, by the Holy spirit He is in us by His life. Similarly although the Kingdom of heaven speaks of Christ coming in His Kingdom, the kingdom is already in us, by our receiving the life of the King Himself. In this sense we could speak about the kingdom of the heavens. The one being the kingdom of God which is in the heavens, in which kingdom Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father. On the other the Kingdom of heaven being Christ is us by the Holy Spirit and the power of the Kingdom given by the Spirit also, and which is manifest in earthen vessels. Apart from these two realities, the kingdom of heaven is presently hidden on the earth and is only seen by its power. Whereas the kingdom of God in Heaven is fully visible and manifestly seen in heaven in all Majesty.

This then brings us to another reality and this is the millennial kingdom spoken of in Revelation. This too is the Kingdom of Heaven. Only now it is Christ physically returned and seated on the throne of David reigning over the nations. Whenever I try to look beyond this simple revelation of scripture and try to “see” into the coming Kingdom of Heaven it is a strange reality for me that I cannot see beyond the outer wall. I know that the visible Kingdom of Heaven is coming, even as Christ is coming again in a physical body to reign. Yet I am unable to comprehend anything beyond the outer walls of that revelation of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth and the King of kings come in the Glory of the Father to rule over the nations.

This limitation in my thinking is almost a physical one. I cannot press beyond the limitation which the Father has set, nor will do, until and if it is removed by Christ. I have borne witness to having seen Christ, and it is a true witness. Yet I have not seen His face. I have said that I have known His hand physically on my head and it is a true witness Yet I have not reached out to touch Him in His own physical body. It was as a child sitting on His knee and I saw the white of His garment. In truth I was not permitted to see His face. Just as now, though I can comprehend His kingdom come, but I cannot comprehend entering therein. This reality of grace is both a profound certainty on the one hand and a profound limitation on the other. It is so real to me that there has scarcely been a day in near thirty years that I have not wondered if I will ever enter into the Kingdom of heaven during the millennial reign of Christ. Yet I am not afraid. In my most hopeless moments it is comforting to believe that even the very least part in the Kingdom will be more than I deserve.

Beyond the millennial Kingdom the veil is removed and I am once again able to see the reality of eternity and the Father who reigns over all things, and unto whom all things are reconciled both in heaven and on the earth. This grace of God, and this alone is what makes me write as I do and speak about the Kingdom of heaven as I do. It is also why I am concerned about the condition of many who do not see the reality of that which is to come. If I can comprehend the reality of outer darkness as being away from the presence of Christ, yet secure in eternity, this is the reason. To the one who reads this therefore I am become a false witness or else I have borne witness to the truth. If it is true then it is true for all men and not just one man. Therefore by revelation of God I am compelled to say it is true.

Unless we set our minds to comprehend the Lord, what He has done for us in His own body, and what is set before us in His kingdom, we will not be able to labour with confidence and fear. We will always be tossed by one or the other and will never know the balance. Neither will we be able to resist the day we live in, which is become a day of apostasy. May all Glory and honour be to the Father and the Son by Whom are we become the children of God. If we have not yet conceived of it we need to repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Nothing will serve this day except a mind of obedience and the fear of the Lord in the perfect love of the Father to keep us unto eternity. Amen.

The Bride of a King is a Queen, The sons' and offspring of God by our High Priest, Brothers and sisters to our Brother Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God made many more sons presented to the Father by The incorruptible Seed (sperma)of the Father in us, the offspring of God,children who will live in our prepared place,the Father's House, when Jesus gathers His Body the Church and we will all live with God for eternity. cristinyou

Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep

For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

1 Corinthian 15:1-28

Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

John 15:15-22

“To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.’ “For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.

Revelation 18:7-8

Hi Sister Elizabeth. Perhaps you would like to begin another thread if that seems right to you. Either way it would be profitable to make a study of the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God. It is always a blessing to be able to search the scriptures with a purpose in mind.

In looking briefly at 1 Samuel chapter thirty I can see how this account of David and the men of valour corresponds to the time we now live in.

Those who destroyed Ziklag and carried off all the families of the valiant men of David, as well as David’ own wives, were long gone before the men of Judah discovered the horror of what had happened. What follows is a pouring out of grief to the point of exhaustion. After exhaustion comes hopelessness, which gives ground to bitterness of Judah towards David. So although David had suffered great loss as well, he becomes the object of blame, and comprehends that his brethren are even minded to stone him to death. In this new distress David turns to God and receives the promise of the recovery of everything that was taken without loss. What follows is the means and the outcome of what God promised.

At the point that it was comprehended that the rescue mission had been successful there follows the parallel fleshiness of Judah. In loss they became bitter and wanted to hold David to account. In victory they despised the weaker brethren. Both of these things contradict the kingdom of heaven, yet Judah, as the Church often times, did not comprehend the kingdom of heaven, and so divisions are evident. How many brethren blame their pastors and elders for their own misfortunes, accusing them and with bitterness, and thereby harm them? When those who are strong in the Lord labour well, how many begin to despise the weaker brethren and desire the increase of their efforts for themselves?

Six hundred men went up to war against the Amalekites to recover the possessions of Judah. Two hundred became weak and could not press on, four hundred pressed on. Apart from whatever increase their may have been, the principle thing recovered was all that which God Himself had given Judah, its blessings, its sons and daughters, its heads of households and its wives and mothers. In short the most blessed possession we have is life itself and not gold and silver. Those who could not keep up with David, remained with the baggage. The principle which David established at this battle was that of not despising weaker brethren. It is a principle of the Kingdom of Heaven for which throne David was anointed to labour for.

Today we do not fight flesh and blood. That battle has already been won in Christ’ own body. Today we fight against principalities and powers of wickedness in heavenly places. Let those who are equipped by God to fight this battle fight it according to the equipping of God. David himself permitted the two hundred to rest by the brook Besor, they did not rebel against David. Beside the two hundred of David’ valiant men, and the four hundred who pressed into the thick of battle, there was also the people who David saluted on his return as well. David did not despise the weaknesses of men.

Many brethren have caught sight of the spiritual warfare which is necessary for the Kingdom to be increased, and have laboured according to God’ calling in their their lives, yet increasing numbers separate to themselves treasures on this earth, with all the attendant doctrines and lies which they make to justify their greed, and pressing on cause ever more brethren to stumble by their example. Those brethren who stumble in their sight, also seek to imitate them and this has led to an increasing denial of the Kingdom of Heaven, which is a just and righteous kingdom.

No doubt even in saying this there are those who will point to the fact that David himself separated by his own hand that which he claimed by the words “This is David’ spoil”. It was after this that those wicked men and base fellows, of those that went with David, said, “Because they went not with us, we will not give them aught of the spoil that we have recovered, save to every man his wife and his children, that he may lead them away, and depart.” Those who think greedily, no matter how well they fight, will also scheme as well and say aha “David has taken the cattle and the sheep which was taken from the Philistines and left the cattle and flocks of Israel for Israel. Now if Israel is to receive its own cattle and flocks back, what is left for us? Let the two hundred receive no more than their own flesh and blood, their wives and children”. This is precisely the same attitude as the wicked and lazy servant had who said, “I know that you reap where you have not sown......etc.

David was in all things bar that of Bathsheba, an example of Christ to Israel. When he separated to himself the cattle and the flocks of the Philistines he was receiving the first fruits which are due to Christ alone. When Christ who is the true Master returns He will indeed reap that which others have laboured towards. If we comprehend this in advance because of a wicked heart, in despising the fact that Christ will distribute to His servants according to His mercy and kindness, that which was laboured for by others, there will be some who choose not to labour at all.

"For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that was a householder, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers into his vineyard. And when he had agreed with the laborers for a shilling a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing in the marketplace idle; and to them he said, Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing; and he saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard. And when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the laborers, and pay them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a shilling. And when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received every man a shilling. And when they received it, they murmured against the householder, saying, These last have spent but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat. But he answered and said to one of them, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a shilling? Take up that which is thine, and go thy way; it is my will to give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? or is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last."

(Mt 20:1–16).

The evidence that we live in the last days of this age seem to be all around us. At the same time many believers also witness that this last hour will be very special and prove in the end to be a real blessing as well as a time of seeing God move in His power. To that end I agree with those who think in this way. For me the focus is still on the hope of things to come and not on the apostasy and unbelief which is already evident. Though a separation is already taking place and in the end some parts of the world will prove more willing and childlike in faith than others despite the witness which is to come. What matters is that we ourselves as individuals really settle the question of "what must I do?" In that there will be sadness and suffering, but also faithfulness.