question about healings

yesterday i flipped on the tv and there was the 700 club with pat robertson. they were doing a piece on some evangelist who recently passed away. when they cut back to pat robertson he said that this man was mightily used by god, and whenever he preached healings happened. then he named off a list of healings that happened whenever this man preached, some of them included: amputated limbs growing back, dead people rising back to life, etc

question: has any1 here ever witnessed amputated limbs growing back? or how about dead people rising to life?

wouldnt sumthing like that make the headlines if it could be proven? why have we not heard of these things if they are real?

A poster at another forum wrote the following about Chuck SMith (whe he knew personally). Chuck Smith is a respected Bible teacher and certainly not a flaming charismatic:

"The following two stories (as I recall them) come from Chuck Smith, pastor of Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, CA. If they had come from someone like Benny Hinn, I could easily discount them. However, Chuck does not claim to have a ministry in healing, and has even publicly expressed disappointment that God had told him that his prayers for such a ministry were not to be granted, but that Chuck was, rather, called to be a teacher. There is only Chuck's word for these two accounts, so that our friends who insist that miracles do not occur will not be impressed in the least with them. However, for those of us who have open minds, and weigh the credibility of witnesses, these stories seem germane to the matter raised in this thread:

1. In Chuck's early ministry, a distraught mother came to Chuck with her young son, who had just had his thumb (or perhaps it was a finger) cut off at the first knuckle in an accident. She begged Chuck to pray for his thumb to be healed. Chuck confesses that he had no faith for this miracle, but that he prayed for the boy and sent them home. I believe it was the next day that the woman excitedly returned with her son and showed Chuck that the finger had regenerated and was whole--with fingernail and all. She also had the severed finger in a jar that she showed him. It is not impossible that this could have been a hoax perpetrated against Chuck's gullibility (for example, if the second boy was an identical twin of the first boy), though I imagine that CHuck's own skepticism would have caused him to look into that before repeating the story. I am willing to accept the story at face value. It is not the kind of thing that will convince a determined skeptic, but for those of us who have no prejudices, it may be a piece of data indicating that regeneration is actually among the various kinds of miracles that God may sometimes perform.

2. I don't remember the details of this second story, except that a person lacking an eyeball, and wearing a glass eye presented himself (or herself) requesting prayer after a service when Chuck was ministering to those who came forward. This person wanted his eye restored. Again, Chuck had little faith that such a thing would occur, but prayed as asked. Soon afterward (the next day?) this same person returned and reported that a new eye had grown into the socket and had pushed out his glass eye. Chuck could see for himself that the person had a real eye in the socket, so he took it as a genuine miracle.

Chuck doesn't tell these stories very often--perhaps so as not to encourage too many people to expect such a rare miracle for themselves, or possibly because he is not 100% convinced that there was no hoax involved--I have never asked his reasons, since I don't know him well or have much access to him. I just remember him telling these stories once or twice at Calvary Chapel during the Jesus Movement."

There is a really God book about things that happened at Azusa street in the early 1900s called "They Told Me Their Stories" It recounts many such incidents. I recently had a friend with medically verified colon cancer and obvious symptoms of such who was healed instantly. He knew he had been healed and went to the doctor for verification. z The doctor was dumbfounded as he found absolutely no trace of cancer. I have never seen limbs grow back myself, but I have seen some amazing healings.

no1 wants 2 touch this topic when tough questions are asked. i thank both of u for posting. i know god can heal and do anything he chooses. i do believe he has healed people in this modern era. however i have 2 wonder about the grandiose healings claimed by many preachers and televanglists, especially since there have been no medical verifications of such healings. ever. the news shows have done pieces on benny hinn and others and they always refuse to produce any medical verification. i do not know about any1 else here, but if i prayed for sum1 and they were miraculously healed i would want 2 get all kinds of proof to show the world that god is god, not hide it like the famous preachers seem 2 want 2 do.

if god is healing people in such grandiose ways, and raising countless people from the dead why is no one taking it to the media? the media is about sensationalism and it would not ignore it.

thank u both 4 ur posts. i do not know ur friend who had colon cancer or the details and so i can not comment on that one way or the other. as 4 azusa street, there were a lot of unbiblical things that went on there, i am not sure i would trust the book unless it had medical verifiable evidence 2 the healings.

in regards 2 chuck smith, these are 2nd hand accounts of things that chuck smith has supposedly said, but never documented. this would not hold up in court therefore the argument that we should hold to what witnesses say would not be admissible in court, i am afraid.

where is the EVIDENCE? jesus healed people right out in front of everyone and everyone knew it was true. many times those being healed were examined by the rulers. jesus even commanded some he healed to present themselves to the rulers. if miracle healings are real 2day why do the healers not send the healed to the authorities? why is it always hidden away?

i just read the thread about carmen having cancer. so sad 2 hear. carmen has always preached a prosperity gospel and they luv him on trinity broadcasting.

reading the article about his cancer diagnosis it is interesting 2 note that he duznt talk about miraculous healings or seeking healing from god. its a different tune he is singing now that it is HIM with the bad diagnosis. its easy 2 claim all kinds of healings until you are the one with the diagnosis.

i'm not mocking him, i think its tragic 2 get a diagnosis like that. i recently watched a friend die from cancer. (recently as in monday morning) i just find it interesting that suddenly there is not much talk about miraculous healings from the carmen camp.

by SkepticGuy on 2013/2/20 0:25:36

i just read the thread about carmen having cancer. so sad 2 hear. carmen has always preached a prosperity gospel and they luv him on trinity broadcasting.

reading the article about his cancer diagnosis it is interesting 2 note that he duznt talk about miraculous healings or seeking healing from god. its a different tune he is singing now that it is HIM with the bad diagnosis. its easy 2 claim all kinds of healings until you are the one with the diagnosis.

i'm not mocking him, i think its tragic 2 get a diagnosis like that. i recently watched a friend die from cancer. (recently as in monday morning) i just find it interesting that suddenly there is not much talk about miraculous healings from the carmen camp

________________________

Greeting S.G.

I just wanted to take a moment and tell you I am sorry to hear of your loss. I will pray that the LORD bring comfort to you and to those who knew this friend of yours. I don't have any answers to share concerning the topic that I feel led to at this time but I did want you to know you are in my thoughts.

God bless
mj

Christian imposters speak of miracles they did which no one has ever seen, and then they ask for your money. In comparison, Jesus performed miracles openly and never asked for money. They use the Bible as their guide, yet they never tell you how to overcome sin. They refer often to the Old Testament to scare people into paying tithes to keep God from cursing their finances. They put man at the center of their message, with God on the peripheral, rallying believers to allow Him to break through with healing and money and power by sewing a "seed gift" into their own ministries. They teach that if you keep thinking and saying something enough times it will eventually materialize. It's all a deception. Beware of these liars and frauds, these who usurp the Holy Spirit with soul power, divine healing with psychosomatics, grace with law, heavenly wisdom with psychology.

Brother Paul

Skepticguy: I don't think you will find a whole lot of argument as to whether God does heal, or as to whether those healings are sometimes what we would view as amazing. (Actually, the common cold is just as incurable as a missing limb, it is just that the symptoms are more treatable, and so we somehow think the regrowth of a limb is "harder", and we don't have nearly so much faith for that.)

It is sad that some men have tried to manufacture false miracles for the exploitation of people. There are also men who are utterly sincere who have adopted, out of ignorance and lack of maturity, unBiblical methods. But there is a God who bore our sicknesses and carried our diseases. I don't think we can do a whole lot about the other men, but we can pursue God out of a pure heart ourselves and we can seek to have Him work through us to bless others and to meet their needs.

maryjane, thank u for ur kind words. i did not know this man long. i wish i had.

that was not why i asked the questions i have asked though. it just happened 2 coincide with it. what prompted my questions was pat robertson talking about this stuff as though its perfectly natural 2 see this happening all the time. i maintain that it isnt. god can certainly do it if he so chooses, but i believe that 4 whatever reason he chooses not to at this point in history.

amrKelly:

This difference is important. I am in the midst of a study of imagination, hope, and faith and the connection that these three have one to another. I have found that imagination, understanding, and the mind are, in many cases, all translations of the same Greek word. The evil are rebuked for their evil imaginations, we are commanded to love the Lord with all of our mind, and Paul prayed that the eyes of our understanding would be enlightened. What we think on, our imagination, is a key to the earnest expectation in our heart (our hope). Faith is the substance of our hope, it is the substantiation of what we are hoping for. So I find that what I allow myself to meditate on and imagine plays a key role in my ability to put faith in what God has already provided through His grace. There is a reason why we are to take every though captive in obedience to God. It has been a powerful study that God has used to do a transforming work in my life. I would encourage any believer to do a study of these three concepts in the New Testament and see how they are interconnected.

Skepticguy

Been reading some of your words during the past 2 days and you are reflecting words that span across society in regards to Christians. That is judgments being cast very quickly on issues as well as this healing deal and the contrast between Charismaniacs and those who are not.

I think alot in Christianity is smoke and mirrors and as a result we really don't know what is really true or not anymore. Someone can make something up and Praise God over and it they eventually get the AMEN choir to singing praises with them all the way it is false. Christians want to believe, so badly, sometimes.

On another forum I asked a poster why he seemed to hostile to Christianity. He responded by says he has yet to see any Christian be able to explain their faith in Jesus in a way that is genuine.

When it comes to healing, just like Carmen (A Charismatic) I had a friend who passed away in 2002 from cancer. She was word of faith to the max and was a Morris Cerullo disciple. We always went out round on the whole issue because to her negative talk invited satan in. Then she got cervical cancer but GOD was going to heal her. Refused the doctor and then 8 month later decided to see a doctor but it was too late. It spread to her lungs. I was informed of all of this just a few days before she passed by her husband. I saw her 24 hours before she passed. All I could to her in my heart was 'Was the word of faith message worth it?" Sounds cruel to say such a thing but I believe the Word of Faith message is cruel.

Paul. A man of your caliber should know that the kingdom of God is much greater than a handful of hirelings who have dis-honored the Lord's name. A little research will land you in the company of precious saints who see God move in this hour.

I would name a few but I treasure them to much to subject them to the unbelief and comments, by immature believers on this forum.

Russell

russell, if they would serve 2 show that god heals in these ways in this day then why hide their names? thats the whole problem. all these healings are supposedly happening in secret 2day, completely out of step w/ how god did it in scripture. i understand u not wanting to open them up to scorn, i dont mean to be callous about that. please understand my position though. people say 'yes! healings like this are common-place when god is present!', but when pressed 2 show it or prove it they back away and say 'oh, no we cant do that'.

or worse, they claim the person who wants to see the proof is lacking in faith or of the devil.

I understand the desire for divine healing - nobody likes to be terminally ill, or have limbs amputated either by accident of surgery or because of a birth defect.

There is another question I think that begs to be asked, confronted and answered: why do you insist on healings? Why will one expend thousands on dubious treatments when terminally ill?

Why?

Are people afraid to die?

Why?

Maybe this is the issue that should be addressed first.

this is a great question, ginnyrose. i had an atheist friend ask me once: if christians believe in heaven and that its a paradise beyond our imagination, why are they afraid 2 die and chase after that healing that will save their life and keep them bound to this life? interesting observation from an atheist.

I have personally witnessed an immediate regrowing of an arm part, the instantaneous healing of a girls left ear that was born deaf in it - she was 13 at the time of healing (I know the family and had known her since birth), the dissolving of a grapefruit sized cancer lump about 4 hours before the person was going under the knife to have it removed( this was my cousin), I also have witnessed several folks getting out of wheelchairs and walking again that had been paralyzed for decades. I have witnessed many, many more but in these specific cases I knew the person involved both before and after the miracle and can attest to its validity.

There have been many others but these were the ones that immediately came to mind.

In answer to your question

wouldnt sumthing like that make the headlines if it could be proven? why have we not heard of these things if they are real?

That has not been my experience. It made some waves locally and amongst those who knew them or were there when it happened. However, once it left that small circle of people it pretty much dried up. It seems people are very slow to believe God actually performs what He promises in His Word even when it is verified. In fact many on this forum reading what I wrote above do not believe it and are formulating arguments in their minds as to why it does not happen today.... never mind that I, and others, have actually seen God perform the miraculous right in front of our eyes. The regrowing of the arm happened not 18 inches away from my eyes as I watched it happen.

The real key is this... reread the book of Acts and see WHY God performed the miraculous and supernatural. Interesting study. Note every time a legitimate miracle happened and what was then done. You will find that when legit miracles happened the believers were quick to make the point that it was Jesus Christ and faith in His name that produced the supernatural. That same Jesus who died on a cross, spilling His blood for their sins, now offers eternal life to all who will repent and believe the Gospel. Signs, wonders, and miracles are PRIMARILY given to verify the Gospel message. Read Mark 16 again looking for that perspective.

As another modern day example that happened to me here in the USA-

Several friends and I were basically just doing "street witnessing" at a government housing project outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma on a Friday night. There were about a dozen of us split into 6 groups of 2. Two of my friends were speaking with a group of about 15 folks in their teens and twenties. At some point one of the younger ones of about age 12-13 asked if Jesus was really all powerful and could really conquer sin, death, and the grave in the end. We affirmed that he certainly could. This excited the youngster and he asked if Jesus could do that NOW..did Jesus really have power over death even now? We affirmed that He did. He said that his pet bird had died about a week before and wanted us to ask Jesus to raise his bird from the dead as it was a pet that he had loved. We asked where the bird was. He ran back to his apartment and produced a bird cage with a bird in it that had sure enough been dead for a week. It was decomposing, covered in bugs, and stiff as a concrete block. One of my friends placed the bird in his hand and led a prayer in front of the 15 or so folks. He shared that that not even a sparrow fell to the ground without it being in God's knowledge and thoughts. He said that this bird was very dear to this young man and asked God to verify the Gospel message of Christ's life, death, burial, and resurrection from the dead that we had shared with them. I kid you not... when he said, "amen" that bird jerked, flipped over, and my friend caught the bird by its feet as it tried to fly away!

Everyone there knew that bird had been dead for a week and had immediately been raised from the dead in response to God answering that prayer! I can assure you that we now had the attention of everyone within eyesight. They wanted to follow Jesus. We prayed with everyone in that group and saw repentance from sin, confession, and belief in the Gospel for salvation. At just about that time a dance was ending that had been happening in the building on the commons area of the property. There were about 50 other teens and twenties that came out of the dance at that time. The guys who saw the bird raised from the dead ran over and stopped all of their friends exiting the dance and told them what they had seen and that they must listen to us. In the course of the evening we prayed with probably another 50-60 people to become followers of Christ. This door opened because of the resurrection of the dead bird. God had confirmed His Word of the Gospel message with signs following. We connected them with a good local church in that part of town and they were doing well spiritually as of my last knowledge.

God PRIMARILY sends the supernatural to verify the Gospel and draw people to Himself. Again, I would encourage you to reread the book of Acts and Mark 16 with that in mind. It will change how you view praying for signs, wonders, miracles, physical healings, the supernatural, and the suspension of natural law. You will begin to pray for it so that the unsaved will come to Christ.

God answers the believing prayers of His people because He loves us and desires to bless us as we do our children. He may well send miraculous answers in those cases. However, His PRIMARY motive is the salvation of the unsaved and He will confirm His Gospel message with signs following for those who will allow Him to do it in their lives.

I have not had God perform a resurrection from the dead through me nor have I seen one first hand. However, I am praying and believing that it is going to happen. However, when it does I want to be speaking at the funeral of the deceased. I hope he has been dead for 3-4 days and is totally embalmed with no internal organs, etc. at all. Let there be no chance anyone tries to say it was not real! I pray the place is filled to capacity with unbelievers that have dismissed the Gospel. I then want to see God raise the guy from the casket...and then let him tell what it was like to be in hell on the other side of death. TALK ABOUT FOLKS LISTENING TO THE GOSPEL AT THAT POINT! Again, that's why signs, wonders, and miracles are primarily given..to confirm the message of Christ's birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection from the dead offering eternal life to those who will repent and believe the Gospel.

Blessings!

thank u for sharing all of that solomon. naturally, and as u expected, i am skeptical. :-) i have no choice but to accept ur word, for i would hope against hope that u would not make this up.

let me ask this, if god heals in such a manner, and he is the same yesterday and today, then why dont people go to the childrens ward at the hospital and just walk through and heal all those children suffering with cancer, or other diseases? this would not be unlike what jesus did. the bible says that if they recorded everything that jesus did the world would not be big enough to contain it, so obviously we only have a small sample of the miracles done by jesus.

i challenge anyone reading this to go to the childrens ward and pray and seek god perform a miracle and heal those children. any1 want 2 take me up on this?

by SkepticGuy on 2013/2/20 5:09:07

thank u for sharing all of that solomon. naturally, and as u expected, i am skeptical. :-) i have no choice but to accept ur word, for i would hope against hope that u would not make this up.

let me ask this, if god heals in such a manner, and he is the same yesterday and today, then why dont people go to the childrens ward at the hospital and just walk through and heal all those children suffering with cancer, or other diseases? this would not be unlike what jesus did. the bible says that if they recorded everything that jesus did the world would not be big enough to contain it, so obviously we only have a small sample of the miracles done by jesus.

i challenge anyone reading this to go to the childrens ward and pray and seek god perform a miracle and heal those children. any1 want 2 take me up on this?

_________________

Greetings S.G.

We also know from the BIBLE that JESUS did not heal everyone he came in contact with who needed physical healing. HE said over and over again that HE only did what the FATHER told HIM to do. It would be sin on my part to take up your challenge with no direct leading from the LORD to do so. In all things we must pray first and seek HIM. I do believe GOD wants the very best for us but sometimes the very best is not always what we believe is the very best. Did HE not say to Paul my grace is sufficient for you...I also think what Ginnyrose posted had merit as well.Perhaps another topic for another thread... What are we afraid of when it comes to dying? It is something I ask and consider myself. In some things I have received miraculous healing and some I have learned that HIS grace is sufficient for me.

God bless you and I pray you find the answers your looking for.

mj

Hi SkepticGuy

the question is not what has been our personal experiences of divine healings,
Which Solomen has testified to and also I could testify as some as well, and as many on these forums have experienced and been eye wittneses to, this all does not matter for we have a more sure word than our own experiences and that is the scripture.

SkepticGuy what does the scripture teach about healings ??

If we do not believe the scripture we would not even believe , though one rose from the dead.

Skeptic wrote /// let me ask this, if god heals in such a manner, and he is the same yesterday and today, then why dont people go to the childrens ward at the hospital and just walk through and heal all those children suffering with cancer, or other diseases? this would not be unlike what jesus did. the bible says that if they recorded everything that jesus did the world would not be big enough to contain it, so obviously we only have a small sample of the miracles done by jesus.///

We live in a faithless generation one that worships at the alter of scholasticism. never in history has the carnal rational mind been more set up as god than in this day.
As MJ pointed out Jesus did not heal and perform mighty works everywhere, and why because of their unbelief.

We live in a faithless generation one that worships at the alter of scholasticism. never in history has the carnal rational mind been more set up as god than in this day.

i dont know that thats true. we think this becuz the context of time for most of us here begins in the 1960's-1970's. maybe there are a few here who remember the 1950's. so we tend 2 think that things r way worse than they have ever been, or we are way more advanced in our thinking than we have ever been. obviously science and technology, yes, but the state of human thinking? i do not think this is true. i think our generation may be dumber than ever before. as for humanism, where did it come from? greece. and greece is mentioned in the epistles, and paul went to them as a missionary. they were great thinkers of their day and much of our western philosophy is based upon greek thought. but for many of us, nothing ever happened in history before 1967. god created the universe in the late 1960's.

so no, i think we think what you said becuz we are a generation that is in love with ourselves. if we had a mirror we would sit and admire ourself all the day long.

Hi SkepticGuy,

I have never seen the dead raised or anyone grow new limbs. However, I have seen and experienced some things that are remarkable and wonderfully miraculous.

As for Chuck Smith and the man without an eye:

While I don't know about that situation, I have met a man who was able to see without an eyeball. His name was Ronald Coyne. I met him as a youth -- and before I met the Lord.

If I remember correctly, Ronald Coyne was from Oklahoma. He was born to a mother who loved the Lord. When Ronald was a youth, he was playing with a barbed wire fence, trying to pull out the wire. When he pulled it out, he yanked it so hard that he accidentally poked himself in the eye with it. He was afraid to tell his parents, so he tried to hide it. However, his mother eventually saw it and took him to the hospital.

The doctor at the hospital said that it was necessary to remove the eye since it was of no use and so that any potential infection would not spread to the other eye. So, his eye was removed and it was replaced with a plastic eye (which, obviously, cannot help anyone "see").

Some time later, Ronald Coyne's family was attending a tent revival meeting. The preacher asked that anyone who was sick -- no matter how sick they were -- should go to the front of the tent for prayer. Ronald was fighting a cold virus, so his mom prompted him to go forward.

When Ronald Coyne stepped forward, the preacher noticed the plastic eye but, not knowing that it was a plastic eye, assumed that young Ronald had pink eye or some other virus of the eye. The preacher asked, "Do you believe that God could heal your eye?" Ronald said that he thought about it for a second but believed that he could be healed if God wanted to. He said, "Yes, I do believe."

The preacher prayed for the young man.

Ronald Coyne said that he felt "strange" after he was prayed for, but he just couldn't figure out what it was. So, he went back to his chair elsewhere in the tent. After a few minutes, he realized that something was different with his vision. He started covering his one good eye and looked around. He could see! He could see through the plastic eye!

He grabbed his mother's arm and exclaimed, "I can see! I can see! I can see through my plastic eye!"

His mother's response? She thought he was trying to make a joke, so she scolded him. However, after he persistently repeated his claim, the mother was puzzled (because she knew that her son wasn't prone to lying -- especially about something like this). She covered his good eye and asked him to read various signs and posters hanging inside of the tent. Sure enough, he could read them! They removed the plastic eye and he was still able to see and read them! He stated that there was great celebration in that tent revival after this happened.

When I met him, Ronald Coyne was much older. He was preaching at a church we attended shortly after we moved to Texas. At the time, I was quite agnostic and only attending Church meetings because my parents forced me to. I usually put on a "happy face" in church but I almost always hated to attend. However, I was extremely (but privately) skeptical about the existence of God.

On that night, Mr. Coyne shared his testimony (the one that I attempted to recollect above) and decided to "prove" it by removing his own plastic eye. He walked around the congregation holding open the eyelid and exposing the socket where the eye used to belong. At one point, he stood right in front of me and I stared into that empty socket. It was obvious that it was an empty socket, just as he claimed. However, I suspected that his claim to "see" would be due to cameras, an ear piece or some sort of peeking with his good eye.

At this point, Ronald Coyne asked for individuals who were a part of the local Church to step up and help cover his good eye. They first took a handkerchief and folded it quite a bit and then taped it over the good eye. They then took another handkerchief, folded it and then taped it over the other. Next, they repeated this with a towel and more tape.

After this process was complete, he cleared the stage except for the pastor and asked for members of the Church to examine the taped face to make certain that there was no way to "cheat." In other words, he wanted to make sure that there was no small breaks in the tape or gaps that would somehow allow his one good eye to "peek" at anything. After quite a few individuals did this (including a couple of medical doctors who were members of the congregation), he was ready to "prove" the miracle.

At this point, Mr. Coyne sat in a chair in the front and asked anyone to come forward with something for him to read. Quite a few people stepped forward bringing items for him to read. These ranged from Bible verses, things that they scribbled on paper, driver's licenses, etc... My mother brought her driver's license from our previous state (Virginia). Sure enough, Ronald Coyne read anything that was brought to him -- without an eyeball in the socket.

Since I was privately agnostic, I was highly skeptical. I didn't want to believe and I was convinced that there must be some sort of "cheat" that was assisting him, even if my mind could not figure it out. Yet, I realized that Mr. Coyne was not holding any of the reading materials brought to him in a way that would seem like he was "peeking" with his good eye. There was no one on stage to "assist" him.

When I finally brought something to him, I looked into his ears to see if there was any device. Nothing. The tape around his good eye was completely sealed as well. There was nothing there but a man and his empty eye socket.

When I stood there, Mr. Coyne asked why I didn't believe him. This was interesting, because I was very careful to never indicate or imply it (even with my mannerisms). At this point, I don't think that anyone suspected how "agnostic" that I truly was either. However, he quickly said, "That's okay. When someone who doesn't believe -- or doesn't want to believe -- finally has their eyes opened, their faith is usually unshakable. You'll do great things for God." At this, Mr. Coyne read my item and I went to return to my seat.

I actually went to my seat but then got up and went to one of the bathrooms in the back. I was shaking. In fact, I was literally weak in my knees. At this point, I was convinced that this was not "fake." This man was seeing through an empty eye socket. My only "ace" up my sleeve for NOT believing was in the hope that I could find out that a person doesn't need an eyeball to see with.

I went to school that week and asked a Physics teacher with a fake eye (who was also a professor at a local university) whether or not a man can see without an eyeball. The teacher replied, "There is no way. You 'see' with your brain, but the eyeball is required to collect all of the information for your brain to process. Without an eye, you have no way to capture the information." So, I asked if a person could see through the ending of their "optic nerve." The teacher replied, "There just isn't any way for that to happen. That would be worse than trying to taste without a tongue."

The teacher was puzzled by my questions and asked about my curiosity. I explained that there was a preacher at the church that my family attended who could see without an eyeball. Furthermore, I detailed what I saw at the meeting. I even asked the professor if he wanted to attend the next meeting to see for himself (it was probably the first time that I ever invited someone to visit a church). Oddly enough, my professor appeared to grow a bit afraid of what I had just said. I think that he actually shivered when he walked away.

I went to the library and studied as much as I could about the eye. We had a computer that had some medical encyclopedia software on it and I looked up everything that I could about the eye during a few lunch hours. It became obvious to me that a person just cannot see without an eyeball.

So, I can't really comment about what happened with Brother Chuck Smith. However, I do know what I saw and processed -- even as a skeptical and agnostic youth.

About a year later, I met the Lord. Since then, I have seen and experienced many other great things for myself. Interestingly enough, I believe God despite the things that I see or experience. If I am "skeptical" of anything, it is anything that I do not believe to pass the muster of "truth." I do not judge that truth by what I see or experience anyway, but by the Word of God and my faith in Him.

I learned that Ronald Coyne died shortly after that meeting. I don't know how accurate his doctrinal positions were. I don't know about his views on certain matters that are debated endlessly (and often excessively) among believers. I don't even know if he went to Heaven or Hell. However, my faith was not in Ronald Coyne. My faith is in Christ -- and in Christ alone. However, I am thankful for having met the man. Regardless of his personality, methods or even doctrinal views, I am certain that the man was able to see without an eyeball. If anything, it provided a spark to the seed of faith within me and caused me to doubt my own doubt and unbelief.

Skeptic, I think for once your atheist friend is right. I had a Christian relative who said the same thing - if I am going to be with the LORD when I die, why should I fight it so?

ginnyrose

QUOTE:
"but for many of us, nothing ever happened in history before 1967. god created the universe in the late 1960's."

Skeptic, our children declare color must have been invented in the 70s because photos before then were black and white...:-)

BTW, I do remember well when Eisenhower was president, when Kennedy was shot, when the first sputnik was sent into space...

Hi SkepticGuy

I am having difficulty understanding what your point is in your reply to my post, but regardless of whatever your point is , your reply is a rabbit trail away from the Gist of my post.

My intention for my post was to ask ourselves " what does the scripture teach about healings ??"

Our personal experiences mean nothing!

"When I came to God for healing I had a hard time, because I had been indoctrinated, in the bapist way, and so I needed help, I needed healing and I said I will find out rather it is in the bible and i found the bible chalk full of it, chalk full of healing, from one page to the other, and never one word against it, not a single word to inspire unbelief. But every where the call of God to believe, to hope against hope, and i found out it is impossable to please God excepting as I believe Him. He that cometh to God must believe , well what shall I believe?,I said I am going to believe the Bible, I am going to believe this Book." 'Hans R. Waldvogel'

Talk on Healing by Hans R. Waldvogel
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=22497

thank you ccchhhrrriiisss for ur testimony. i appreciate u sharing that. i will see if i can look this guy up and get a little more info on him.

skepticguy:

You asked the question about why, if these kinds of miraculous healings occur through believers, we do not go to the hospital and empty the beds. I thought I would introduce one more element into the discussion that I think is worthy of consideration.

The things that God has provided by His atonement and grace are not automatic. Through faith we apprehend that which has been provided by grace. It is true with salvation. For by grace are ye saved, through faith.... Our salvation is made possible by God's gift of grace, but it is made reality only when a man reaches out in faith and receives it. Faith is our positive response to what has already been provided by God.

As another example, God promised that as I do His will, He will supply all of my needs according to His riches in glory. How many men have failed to step out in obedience to what God is calling them to do because they lack the faith that God will supply their needs financially? The promise of provision is there, the grace of God is there, but the lacking element is a positive response of faith.

The same is true of healing. To receive what God has given, a response of faith is required. I am reminded of a song that I learned as a little boy. It goes like this, "Faith is just believing what God says He will do; He will never fail us, His promises are true. If we but receive Him, His children we become; Faith is just believing - This wondrous thing is done."

So it is not possible to go clean out the hospital. Some people will, no doubt, receive the good news with faith and be healed. Many will not.

Many times we as believer, who know the truth, struggle with this as well. How many times to I find myself faithless in some area or another. I gave the example of believing God to meet financial needs. God is calling me right now to do something that would require me, in a year or so, to unplug from a regular income as I have enjoyed my whole life. I KNOW the truth, but I have struggled with my own lack of faith that God will really come through for me. I pray, "Lord, reveal to me who You are and how faithful You are, and how true to Your word You are." I desire to have faith that bears the fruit of obedience in my life.

It is worthwhile to notice Jesus never cleansed entire leper colonies, or raised all the dead from the collected "tomb yards" of Israel. Can you imagine - such events would have caused an enormously undeniable spectacle! They would have been recorded throughout the civilized world as documented facts in hundreds of extrabiblical sources. But God's ways are not like ours. If you notice many times, we see the complete opposite logic: Jesus told those healed to "tell no man". Even after He rose from the dead, He was very selective with whom He showed Himself. All He needed to do was appear in the temple of Jerusalem the next Sabbath in His full resurrected glory and ascend into heaven before the masses and that would have been that. Case proved - man's way.

But God obviously does not think like us. Like in Christ's time, the true miracles and healings through the gifts of the Holy Spirit are largely hidden from the mainstream media. Those through whom the Holy Spirit operates are hidden and you and I will never know their names until they are resurrected. By keeping His workers anonymous from the secular media and commercial Christendom, God retains all His glory for the miracles He did through them while they were on earth. Interestingly, it seems the preachers who will boast to Jesus of the "many wonderful works we did in thy name" at the judgment had public miracle ministries while on earth.

I've seen miracles while street-preaching and I've also been healed through prayer so I know the supernatural power of God is working today, but I do not make it a fetish in my ministry. On every occasion God healed or performed a miracle in my life, it was in private. I believe the instruction He gives me today is the same Jesus gave to the people He healed back in his day: "See to it that you tell no man". This way I give Satan no room in tempting me to steal some of God's glory, for I am neither strong enough or wise enough to resist his subtle designs in this area.

Brother Paul

http://www.youtube.com/JohnMellorMinistries

healing is happening today for sure, Jesus Said in His name it would happen, there are normal everyday believers moving & working with the Holy Spirit, bringing healing in all areas of life,
there have been a few in Australia in last few years, a man who was a DR died on a tour in israel which a pastor i know was leading, they prayed for him & he came back, he has a few documented healings, other ministers here have had eyes where there was nothing, blind, lame, deaf, God isnt dead, we just need to be bold & step out.
the pastor where i go to church had cancer & sought the Lord over a period & was totally healed, no he has a healing ministry & sees the hand of God at work touching others peoples lives.

"That's okay. When someone who doesn't believe -- or doesn't want to believe -- finally has their eyes opened, their faith is usually unshakable. You'll do great things for God." At this, Mr. Coyne read my item and I went to return to my seat."

Hi Chris,
I also met him.He put two towels and half a roll of duct tape on his good eye,took out the glass eye and read everything anyone brought him.

It is a fact he could see from that empty socket.

I got a chuckle when you said he told you"Their eyes are finally opened"