Is Words and how we understand them really important ?

Can they lead us into a different "way"than was meant to be ?

Do we really need to take a renewed look at words,that seem to be just tossed around, and believe that we are truly seeing their right/ original/ God-thought-out meaning,...
or truth meaning to that Word, according to the way God sees it,and not a repetitive...(.the way man has trained us to believe it to be )?

The very importance of Words,..especially the Words of God.
In the beginning of time,God,who is ,..Word / Spirit,spoke the Word,forth / and brought the world and the things in it,into place.

It was He who made the words for us to speak.even when He changed
languages to different people's,....still words,with meanings.

And we can just throw around our words,..although we will have to give account for every idle word,but I am really speaking of
...The word of God,....?..How important !
Could that mean,..really life / death in how our understanding important
Words in the Bible,and how they are used there ?

Jesus,came forth speaking WORD'S,(Gospel) ,....the Spirit / Word is what makes us One with Him,as the Spirit Word made him One with the Father.

Am I asking these things to so show you what I know?
If I can read my heart,absolutely NOT !
What I learn is His,..not mine.
I just feel thy are of utmost importance.

Lovingly,
elizabeth

It was He who made the words for us to speak. Even when He changed
languages to different people's,....still words,with meanings.

This is a very worthwhile consideration Elibeth!

I believe our language capability is certainly part of what it means to be made "in God's image."

Blessings,

MC

Compton
Your continuiing consideration too,I would appreciate.

You were saying, "I believe our language capability is certainly part of what it means to be " made in God's image."

Yes,I can see,to be able to understand Jesus' speaking's ,...His WORD's
and seeing it through the Spirit,(the way He see's the WORD's that He speaks, and through His Spirit that He has given to us,..serrendering to His will,we can be changed into His image.,...from glory to glory.

I was thinking of Peter, to see him seeing the Word the way Jesus sees it,and then again the very next paragraph he does not see the Word that Jesus speaks as Jesus wants it understood...through the eye's of the Spirit.

First Jesus ask him :

Jesus ask Peter, "Who do you say that I Am ?"
And Peter said,"Thou art the Christ,the Son of the Living God"
And Jesus said to him,"Flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto you,
but the Spirit did reveal this to Peter.
And Jesus told him," That upon this Rock I will build My church,"....It is upon this Spirit,revealed Word / Rock ,..revealed through the the eye of the Spirit, seeing as He see's,that He would build His church,from glory to glory,(His people changed into His image) " And I will give unto thee the 'keys' to the kingdom of heaven".....Allowing him (Peter ) to go into the kingdom,and helping others to find the door.

But it was so amazing,that Jesus had just spoke these great things to Peter
and the very next paragraph,Peter begin's to start thinking the cares of this life,..fleshly,and not seeing in the Spirit,and Jesus rebukes him sharply,
Calling Peter Satan,and telling him ,he was an offence unto Him,and that
Peter did not savior the things that 'be of God,'(savior things of the Word / Spirit ) not decerning the Word,through the Spirit that He spoke but by the way of the natural men.

But Peter was a deciple ( a learner ) at this time,.. Pentecost had not come yet. He was teaching Peter to be always and forever spiritually minded....to decern His Word through the Spirit.

("The Word's that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are Life" )

Have I elaborated too much ?
I was thinking to try to give an example.

Sincerely,
elizabeth

Agreed as well.

Linguistic research regarding first language acquisition is proving that language isn't formed and wired primarily as a means of communication, but a way to structure thoughts.

Yes, we should be concerned with words and the meaning of them.

Friedrick,

Thank you for contributing to this conversation.
I appreciate your and Compton's thoughts.

Please,let us continue,
elizabeth

Linguistic research regarding first language acquisition is proving that language isn't formed and wired primarily as a means of communication, but a way to structure thoughts.

This has profound implications for the creative capacity of mankind...something that is surely part of what makes us in Gods image!

Blessings,

MC

"The very importance of Words,..especially the Words of God."

I fully agree. Personally I didn't see the signifcance of it for a long time, and how it relates to the reality of what we see and have to deal with today. Someone that understood that already 20 or 30 years ago is Jim Searchy at moresureword.com - and that's one of the best explanations of him i ever read:

"Faith coming by hearing, and hearing by the dynamic equivalence of alternate renderings does NOT produce faith. God promised an EVERY WORD PERFECT HOLY BIBLE. The WORDS are important, and there is no equivalence dynamic or otherwise, for the Word of God. John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Rom 1:17 - For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Rom 10:17 - So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the WORD of God. AND THERE IS NO DYNAMIC EQUIVALENCE, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE.

So the Scriptures, not any man, any teacher, or any prophet, are to be accounted the Words of the Holy Ghost, the very Words of God. By the Holy Bible, God speaks to His people with all the plainness and simplicity that His CHILDREN understand. The Word of God speaks with all the power and all the accuracy that His CHILDREN KNOW the words and expressions, come from God.

Mix faith with what you find in the Scriptures, and esteem and reverence the Bible as a book written by holy men, taught by the Holy Ghost, and you will do well without any other teacher or prophet. Know Yeshua, Jesus, whose name is called the Word of God."

a-servant,
Good morning,
I appreciate you for joining in with us in this study/subject.

I feel that there is an urgency to continue.

To look at some very dire and important WORD's and seeing how they were used in Truth/The word.,...and maybe not in the way they have been taught by man...spoon fed ,...through the exceptence of time and through the generations...but a SEEING,...through His eyes.

Because we are set out on a journey,..A Way,...a path,...sandals on our feet,...Walk,...our feet,...

Lovingly and God bless,
elizabeth

"Truth/The word.,...and maybe not in the way they have been taught by man"

Elibeth, there is an expression used by God that comes to my mind, that is regarded to be "bad style" in a literary criticism sense, taught by man. I'm sure there are others, however this one stuck in my mind as being profound, backed up by actual experience in that regard which validated the revelation received.

It's about: 1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Many critics have said it's a funny way of saying "is come" and it would be better to say "did come" or "has come". Little do they realize that these expressions would fail the test of The Spirit.

Why? We would know the difference if we actually put it to the test and ask a satanist that pretends to be a christian to say it. They have no problem with the historical Jesus, that lived like a man, and died like a man. They can reference him without a hitch. What makes the test of the spirits useless in a real life application.

The actual test of the spirits is in the KJV Holy Bible, and the difference of the true test here is whether Jesus Christ is alive today, now - or not. It's talking about the resurected Jesus that is God, not the man Jesus. So "is come: means he is the resurrected one, that sent his Holy Spirit that is now present in the room, this very moment. That is what the whole test is about.

I've seen people talk around these exact words in a way they can avoid to say it verbatim, therefore outing themselves, which is confirmed by a busy preacher that has cast out many unclean spirits from hundreds of people, he has made the same experience that they cannot say it without a hitch, and he comments:

"Did Come is true - But FAILS the test of the Spirit.
Has Come is true - But FAILS the test of the Spirit.

The only way of passing THE test of the Spirit is - Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh. That IS come is very important. IS come, is a confession that Jesus Christ IS the I AM, who spoke to Moses from the burning bush, and wrote the 10 commandments in stone for Moses with His Finger. That IS COME means that Jesus Christ is GOD the Creator AND Redeemer, very God the Son of the Father, who took flesh upon Himself to become the Lamb of God, the Perfect and ONLY acceptable sin offering."

My comment: This example is a spiritual example that God reveals through the words and expressions ONLY HE uses, and has a true practical application to sort out antichrist spirits. Myself I would have joined the literary critics that think its funny and "bad style" gramatically, without any further relevance. But the moment I saw His truth in an instance, I understood that these things are not revealed to the carnal mind, it only starts to make sense when it's "openend for you". John: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Double post.

...Not only the ideas that were expressed right then and there when those words were spoken, they also convey eternal principles about morals, about the counsel of God, about His character.

And there, is the Lord God Almighty, the Holy one of Israel.
Our redeemer and our deliverer.

When someone realizes that, then they might as well pray the prayer of Daniel (9:6-19)

"And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.

O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee. To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.

And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name."

Oh,dear bearmaster,..and each of you with our special interest in this communion that we are having.

I have so many things that I would like to write in response.
If God will only help me to put it into word's...,....it is not
always easy to do that.

But have very limited time at the moment as I am called upon to run an errand.

Bearmaster,you ask: Is it every jot and tittle?....I would say,Yes it is every
Jot and tittle,..because of the Jesus who said it....it is the Truth,as He SEE'S it,...a seeing though the eyes of the Spirit,that flows out of that Word,that only the Spirit of God lets us see that Word and teaches us in Truth,what is truly meant by that Truth / Word. It is His righteous judgements that He wants us to see and be worked in us.( and please don't
Think that I am talking about the Law here, ...But I am talking about the Spirit ) So He wants to give us a seeing an understanding as He SEE'S.
That, that seeing / understanding be worked in us,through the Spirit.

I believe, if we get instructions in " THE WAY " in which to go,and we truly do not understand what the instructor is saying,....He says some words,..and showing us THE WAY and we go in "a way" instead,....we take that Word differently than He meant,maybe in the the way the world / human nature sees it the way down through the time and generations have seen it ,not sought the Holy Spirit ...what then ..?...Is it not detrimental ?

And please,I am not being weird here,..I am speaking truth and necessity.

Until later,
Blessings,
elizabeth
.

Passerby,

I just love this prayer of Daniel ! I love the humility in which he speaks / prays....and too I really noticed,I guess because of this study was in
your fifth paragraph,..."...that we might turn from our iniquities,and understand Thy truth" .

Thank you

continuing,
elizabeth

bearmaster asked a thought provoking question ////Is it the words themselves that give life? Or the Spirit behind the words? Maybe not asking the right question. But deep thoughts for meditation.////

Words are just words, but when faith is applied to the Word the Spirit behind the Word is than activated to the believer.

The written Word and the indwelling Word work hand in hand.

To look at some very dire and important WORD's and seeing how they were used in Truth/The word.,...and maybe not in the way they have been taught by man...spoon fed ,...through the exceptence of time and through the generations...but a SEEING,...through His eyes.

If I'm understanding you correctly I believe you are speaking about the revelation of the Spirit that transcends mere language, it is a knowledge of God by revelation of the Holy Spirit in our spirit. We can have a clever presentation of God's word by natural ability and never get into spiritual life.

In Christ,

Ron

Ron,

[ quoting]

" If I am understanding you correctly, I believe you are speaking of the
revelation of the Spirit that transcends mere language,it is a knowledge
of God by revelation of the Holy Spirit in our spirit."

Yes,and Thank you Ron, What a excellent way of saying what I am trying to say.

Be blessed,

elizabeth

Interestingly, the experience of a revelation that transcends language, takes us back to the original question: are words all that important?

MC

I appreciate you kindness Bearmaster,

You ask:

Is it the words themselves that give life ?Or the Spirit behind the words?

I would say as Proudpapa said,..It is both together..and the Spirit of that Word.

Jesus speaking,"the Words that I speak unto you, They are Spirit and they are Life."

He also says,
I Am the WAY, the TRUTH,and the LIFE.

"I Am the WAY, ..( with His Words that he speaks to us,. (The Way),..which is " Truth "He is showing us "the Way", through His Spirit,Truth, Words) ,that we might have "Life")

Thank you Lord, and continue to Bless Lord.

elizabeth

A new Born Baby does not yet understand words, The parent can not communicate with a new born with words.
But they do have ways to communicate with a New Born.

I have heard of Those woman whom have had a new born in which bites the nipple, the mom will some times communicate with the baby with a light pull of the hair or light pinch or light thump.
All the new born knows is that when it clamps down with its jaws on the nipple, that it will immediately recieve a negative sensation.
As time goes on the Baby will also learn that along with the negative sensation that there also is an audible (no!) sound that accompanies the negative sensation.
And as some more time goes on the young child will connect the word (no!) with a negative sensation.
And the Child will than learn what the audible (no!) means, likewise the child will learn by positive sensations what words like (yes) and (good) mean, and from this the Child Grows and learns to articulately communicate with the parent.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I am confuzed at what you are implying by this statement:

amrkelly wrote ////Brother you may well have “heard” these things but the formula and composition were put together by Michael & Debbie Pearl. It forms part of their psychology of spirituality approach to truth.////

The only similarity that I know of connecting what I wrote with what I am aware of what the Pearls have written, has no conection at all with the spirtual reality that I presented.

The scenario of the nipple biting infant can be found within the Pearls child training writtings but it is not exclusive to them nor do they use it in spirtual context, they use the scenario in a completely different context than I did,
they use it in a practical child training senerio,which does not reflect the context that I used it in.

I am not aware of the Pearls teaching,listening to the Spirit as I intended by my post but I have found a very similar understanding taught by bro Denny Kenaston and others.

amrkelly wrote /// I know I have said it before but whenever I read this stuff I feel grieved.///

This could be because you often seem to add assumptions that where never intended and often seem to miss the Gist of what is being presented.

amrkelly wrote ///Brother there is no correspondence in meaning between Matthew 18:3 and a communication method which relies on operant conditioning for its effect. To confuse the two is difficult to understand. This is especially true when you read the posts in this thread which make clear that true meaning is that which the Spirit Himself communicates and does not require a form of phonological sounds. In reality when the Spirit speaks to us in our inner parts there is no structure which comes even close to language as we understand it.///

I am again confused at what you are implying.

What I wrote was not intended as a direct response to anyones specific post, Mikes question of 'are words all that important? in the context of experience of a revelation that transcends language' was part of my thoughts but my post was not a direct response to any post

I was giving an analogy between the similarity of how new born Babies hear their parents and Babes in Christ hear their father.

I did not intend to imply a connection between an infant learning to understand his parents audible laungauge and some how the Christian communicating or hearing by a form of spiritual phonological sounds.

The connection was merely intended as connecting the simmilarity between a child growing and learning to communicate and understand the will of their parents and The Babe in Christ learning to understand and discern the promptings, convictions and the experiences of revelation that transcends language.

There are at least two forms in which higher beings communicate or express themselves, verbal and non-verbal.

Words, languages, or even mathematical and programming expressions give structure and represent our thoughts especially those that are highly complex.

There is a dictum in psychiatry; Non-verbal communication is more accurate in determining the real sentiments of a person. A person can verbally deny that he is angry
but the pitch of his voice and the frown on his forehead, otherwise reveals it.

If a person is not able to express his grievance or displeasure in a more 'civil' way, because for example he fears his boss, then he may express it by destroying things, spreading gossips, etc.

If a person has no alexia nor auditory aphasia and he is skilled to understand the particular language and the grammar used in the communication process then he may really catch the entire information that is being expressed.

In reading the bible there are at least two things that we can learn, the information and the spiritual revelation.

For example in reading the book of Daniel you can read historical information or that eating predominantly vegetable can be better than certain dietary prescription, but how about the spiritual revelation, about yourself for example, or about Israel, about God, or about the counsel of God.

There are the moments when we even fail over and over again to get the correct information as we do our individual and group bible study. But we do receive spiritual revelations that enable us to continue and grow in our faith and sanctification.

Has someone noticed that as we read the bible over and over again, we learn not new informations only but new spiritual revelations as well, with the same bible passages.

Well, according to the the counsel of God that we learn and grow. He knows us even before the foundation of the world.

Jeremiah 29:13 " You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

amrkelly wrote ///I can say though proudpapa that you have been a faithful brother to me more than once and have shown a good spirit as well.///

It is difficult to communicate on these forums and I my self have always struggled with all kinds of communication and articulation of my thoughts.

amrkelly you also have been a faithful brother and have continued to show me grace, even after heated discussions.

Many of your post have benifeted me, some much more than you could relieze. When you write things like 'don't be mystical be real' You will never in this lifetime relieze the prevention of error and depth of truth such advise will make on someone such as myself.

Please,...my dear brothers,

I really do not know what to say,..
Except,I care

elizabeth

____________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"I am going to share this simple point and then Im finished. By that I mean I am finished posting on SI altogether."
____________________________________________________________

Andrew, I hate to see you leave SI having appreciated your insights. But I must now wonder why you posted at all? In the context of Believers it is an iron sharpening iron process. To sharpen iron means there will be friction which is essential to maintain the usefulness of a knife. In Believers it is bad when egos come into play and people get upset with each other. I would suppose all of who have been here a while have gotten upset at someone at some point or another - I have and so have others. But we learn and the main thing is that people do not always understand or see things the way we do. But we go on, we forgive. Unless there is serious doctrine at stake we let well enough be.

God bless you, Andrew. Just wanted you to know there is one poster here who did appreciate your postings even if I rarely responded to them.

ginnyrose

"I think in the end I will leave and put my time to other things. That can only mean preaching the gospel, I sincerely and truly hope so."

You're right, preaching the gospel, Christ crucified is God's way of propagating truth. I pray you'll be richly blessed and enjoy the fruits.

I would join with the other brethren on SI who have been richly blessed an encouraged by your ministry to us in this short time.

Grace be with you and Peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

David

God bless you, Andrew. Just wanted you to know there is one poster here who did appreciate your postings even if I rarely responded to them.

I include myself with Ginny's statement.

Responding only to disagreements is one of the dynamics of an online forum. As a result the flavor of the place is often more bitter then a live encounter would be.

And all of this raises the original question yet again:) Words do matter in some way...they certainly can divide or unite.

MC

Maybe we can distinguish between words, and the Word.

Words attempt to signify reality, while the Word is reality.

Words are symbols for narratives in our minds. To use Elibeth's original phrase, they can lead us...correctly if their narratives are accurate, and astray if their narratives are off base. Because of this semantic differential, some words are worth squabbling over. Words can be used to tell our stories, so they create intense feelings. For instance, do we define ourselves as "pro-life" or "anti-abortion?"

There are narratives deeply embedded in the words we use. Should we call ourselves "holy"? Depending of your narrative of the word, two excellent Christians may have different feelings about whether to apply that word to themselves. .

Words. Symbols. Language. All of these are man's models of reality.

I believe the reason there are mystic movements within Christian history is because words are ultimately inadequate vessels for reality. The Word is beyond the reach of our semiotic devices, yet without them we could not take hold of the Gospel, nor could we call other people to consider the message. Words are not The Word, but they help us understand...in fact I believe one of the reasons we were given a language faculty is to be aware of God and our need for him, and to know how to respond to him... unlike the brute beasts.

Blessings,

MC

Forgive me,..I had a problem with the submit

Mike,Bearmaster,David,Ginnyrose,

I am really appreciative of this council to our very dear brothers.

Godly council,... It is a good word. (Thinking about our study on words)

Godly council,(words),are like gold,...for the good that it can do for us.
And we are none without that need in this life.

Andrew,..I was ,just a few days ago,in our discussion about "the kingdom
of God " ...admiring your honesty as we ,and Papa communed on this
subject. ...you also have a deep learning.

Papa,..I have been noticing your great desire for The Lord,and that
blesses us all here.

Bless you,as we now,very soon,continue on our journey here.
Sending my love to all you precious ones,

elizabeth

* Can they lead us into a different "way" than was meant to be?

Mike said,"words are symbols in our minds,...........They can lead us correctly,if their narratives are accurate,and astray if their narratives are off base."

Yes,..too, I believe,with the passing of time and tradition,and pass it on,...
and on,that we really need / so important to look back an seek through
the Spirit and also confirming in the scriptures.

There are several words and the way they are used,that I would like for us to consider.Can we just start with this one?

One is already being discussed on another post .that Word is Grace

There is only one Grace,that is a true / truth Grace ,and,I believe if we do not operate in this Grace then wouldn't we be operating in the false grace.
That with the true Grace,...it comes with an obligation,to the Word,because through the power of true Grace,it is Living and it brings up from within the
Word / WAY in the power that it takes to obey that persuasion of the Spirit.

Grace: The Devine influence upon the heart,and it's reflection in the Life.

* the Devine influence upon the heart :the hearing of the Word,...
* and it's reflection in the Life : the doing of that Word

And why would I " Seek the kingdom of God,and His righteousness,"
except that I would have a King, ...who is Jesus,reign over me.
And how the the things pertaining and concerning the kingdom,were carried Over into the New Testament for us.I was thinking of Paul,when he was first visited by The Lord,..he was going one way,and he turned,and said"What would Thou have for me to do Lord?" And my thoughts were,..
That Paul went on to seek the Kingdom of God' will in his life every day.

Could this one Word alone,.....the understanding of that Word be most
detrimental ? Since it is a saving Word ,through the operation of God ?
I believe when 'this Grace' first came to us,..it made sin,..exceedingly
sinful !....it can get dulled in us,..I pray for more of this in me.

Could it not sweep many into hell just to be misled?

I know this is a hard Word,felt it SO nessasary,...if it only will help one...
It would be a praise to God.

Thank you for bearing with me ,for one's that have seen my repartition.

God bless,
elizabeth

Not sure how I missed this great discussion.

by Compton on 2013/3/21 11:16:35

Interestingly, the experience of a revelation that transcends language, takes us back to the original question: are words all that important?

MC

We are told not to add to or take away from scripture or terrible things will happen to us.

We also see how Satan quotes the Word but changes it either by leaving words out or adding words and in both cases the meaning is changed.

There seems to be a balance of "not changing the Scriptures" and at the same time, we need the quickening of the Spirit to bring the written word, alive to us.

I have had experiences where I have read one or two scriptures and the Holy Spirit expanded them to a thousand words and numerous thoughts in my spirit.

Greetings Pilgrim,
It is with joy to see you here,..I appreciate your insight,as well as others.

You said, " We also see he satan quotes the word but changes it either by
Leaving words out or adding words and in both cases the meaning is
Changed. "

To distorted and eventually the distorted view is believed by many.
Wouldn't that be a great tool for satan to use to his advantage ?
( the deceiver,that deceiveth the whole world ? )...Is this a case that
" We should be as wise as serpents " ? Or to seek wisdom from The Living
God,about this serpent and his tactics ?

Pilgrim said,'There needs to be a balance of "not changing the Scriptures"
and at the same time,we need the quickening of the Spirit to bring the written Word alive to us."....much needed !

I believe that there are many words that have lost their True meaning.

We started with the Word Grace,..

Is there any other that we might consider ?

Also bearing in mind of what you,Pilgrim expressed,..about taking away from Scriptures or adding to.....the fear of The Lord,...that too.
I believe has been changed.

Bless you all,
elizabeth

How about the word "Holy"? Seems to be missing from newer versions of the Bible. No more holy brethren, holy apostles or holy men of God, just brethren, apostles and men of God. What message are they trying to convey to us by removing the word holy which is in the greek?

2Pe_1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

ἅγιος
hagios
hag'-ee-os
From ἅγος hagos (an awful thing) compare G53, [H2282]; sacred (physically pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially consecrated): - (most) holy (one, thing), saint.

Hi allaboard,

RE: ///2Pe_1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.///

It is interesting that the Textus Receptus says holy (hagios) men, where as the Nestle Aland/United Bible Society text has ommitted hagios before man,

not just different translations but even different text from which the translations have been translated.

interesting thoughts

Edit: ps: Not only does the Textus Receptus (recieved text) include hagios before man, so does the MSS the majority of all extant manuscripts that have been preserved today.

I don't use the Greek Text Based on the Westcott-Hort Edition of 1881. They did not think words were important.

Their Greek text (they added to and deleted from) is what new Bible versions are based on and precisely why "holy" and other words are missing. All you did was reference a corrupt Greek text.

You are making our point about words being taken away or added to the Bible.

Here try the Textus Receptus, pg 779

http://books.google.com/books?id=DDP14C8_TwAC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

οὐ γὰρ θελήματι ἀνθρώπου ἠνέχθη ποτέ προφητεία ἀλλ' ὑπὸ πνεύματος ἁγίου φερόμενοι ἐλάλησαν οἱ ἅγιοι θεοῦ ἄνθρωποι

Hi allaboard

RE: ///What message are they trying to convey to us by removing the word holy which is in the greek?///

what are your thoughts on this ?

Try the Byzantine / Majority text

ου γαρ θεληματι ανθρωπου ηνεχθη ποτε προφητεια αλλ υπο πνευματος αγιου φερομενοι ελαλησαν αγιοι θεου ανθρωποι

the Minority Texts (primarily the Westcott and Hort Greek Text, are based primarily on the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus).

Stephens was not the sole source of the KJV, by the way.

Why did the early churches of the 2nd and 3rd centuries and all the Protestant Reformers of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries choose Textus Receptus in preference to the Minority Texts?

The answer is because of the following:

Textus Receptus is based on the vast majority (over 95%) of the 5,300+ Greek manuscripts in existence. That is why it is also called the Majority Text.

Textus Receptus is not mutilated with deletions, additions and amendments, as is the Minority Text.

Textus Receptus agrees with the earliest versions of the Bible: Peshitta (AD150) Old Latin Vulgate (AD157), the Italic Bible (AD157) etc. These Bibles were produced some 200 years before the Minority Texts (like Vatican and Sinai) favored by the Roman Catholic Church.

Textus Receptus agrees wih the vast majority of the 86,000+ citations from scripture by the early church fathers.

Textus Receptus is untainted with Egyptian philosophy and unbelief.

Textus Receptus strongly upholds the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith: the creation account in Genesis, the divinity of Jesus Christ, the virgin birth, the Saviour's miracles, his bodily resurrection, his literal return and the cleansing power of his blood!

Textus Receptus was (and still is) the enemy of the Roman Catholic Church. This is an important fact to bear in mind.

by proudpapa on 2013/6/13 22:53:48

Hi allaboard

RE: ///What message are they trying to convey to us by removing the word holy which is in the greek?///

what are your thoughts on this ?
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Hi proudpapa,

I believe the new Bible versions are being secularized by Satan, so that eventually there is no difference between Christians and believers of other religions. The emergence of this "New Christianity" that we have today can be shown to be a direct result of new Bible version's wording. No more is righteousness important but rather riches, and we don't want a cross but would choose a crown instead and "new creation" is so passe, today we have bought into an "imitation".

The Bible, angels, men, prophets and apostles are not holy anymore. Are these new versions "holy"? The Majority Text distinguishes between good angels and bad angels and good prophets and bad prophets but the new versions do not.

Even the Holy Spirit is no longer Holy.

NIV, NASB Verse KJV

Spirit\t John 7:39\tHoly Ghost
Spirit\t I Cor. 2:13\tHoly Ghost
Spirit\t Matt. 12:31\tHoly Ghost
Spirit\t Acts 6:3\tHoly Ghost
Spirit\t Acts 8:18\tHoly Ghost

"Satan cometh immediately and taketh away the word . . ."
Mark 4:15

I did not mention any doctrines. We are talking about words.

Correct me if I am wrong but did you just imply that I want to "murder Catholics" or view them as "damnable heretics" or condemn them? I could not help but catch how noble you made yourself look by drawing inaccurate characterizations of me.

I am talking about a religious structure that foments lies and deceptions not individual people so please take back what you said.

Again, we are talking about words. A few words here and a few words there and then YES, you have actually altered a doctrine. I would be happy to show you where that has occurred by tampering with the individual words. However, better judgment might indicate that I don't have any further exchanges with someone that hurls such poisonous, accusatory arrows. I read recently where someone referred to you as passive-aggressive and I think at least in your reply to me, that is an accurate description of you.

Satan immediately cometh and taketh away the word by EVERY MEANS POSSIBLE.

Do you know all the ways that the Holy Spirit illuminates that passage to disciples of Christ? I did not think so.

Now you are saying I hate people?

Regarding "religious structures", I never said other religious institutions were NOT religious structures. You seem great at continually making implications.

Thank you for your apology. Henceforth, I do not think it wise that I have further exchanges with you. Not just based on the exchange in this thread but your interactions with others that I have been reading about. I don't hate you or hold anything against you, I just sense it would be wise to go my way while you go your way. I am going to decline your invitation to fight.