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A great book exposing cheap grace/hyper-grace by David Servant (read for free)

J
joliboy11

I recommend to buy this book to share to others, you can freely read/download it here:
https://www.heavensfamily.org/ss/false_grace_gospel

This book examines the modern gospel that is so popular in America and around the globe, but that is often lacking when compared to the gospel of the Bible. The primary difference is that the modern gospel portrays a grace that is foreign to Scripture, a grace that is actually a license to sin. Whereas the gospel of the Bible reveals a grace from God that offers people a limited time to repent and a promise of freedom from sin. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more" (John 8:11). You can be certain that if that woman continued in her sin, when she stood at Christ's judgment seat after her death, she did not hear the same words again. Likewise, God is graciously giving every person a limited opportunity to repent, so that each person will stand before Him forgiven and striving to follow Him to "enter through the narrow gate" (Matt. 7:13).

A
a-servant

That's a great book for people that think they understand the gospel, but have been subtley mislead to believe "another gospel".

"modern gospel that is so popular in America and around the globe" - it actually comes from America to the rest of the globe

we can see the result of that especially in the new Christianity in Asia, where many 'new streams' of theology like for example 'The Purpose Driven Church' arrive from America and infiltrate one local church after the other. Neither the gospel of self-idolatry nor the 'cheap grace' gospel is the gospel of the Bible. But the propaganda of them is merciless and ruins many congregations where the believers with non-corrupted doctrines are left in the minority. It's gotten so bad, that I already thought that God has to intervene at some point closing the propaganda channel just to preserve the true gospel, or it will cease to exist.


You can find similar content in a related book:

Great Falling Away Today
by Milton Green

it's online per your search engine as a html-online book

S
staff

Hi all,
Their is no such a thing as cheap grace.This term is of itself is false teaching.
Yours Staff

S
sermonindex

"Cheap grace is the forgiveness without requiring repentence, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ."

From Dietrich Bobhoffer in Cost of Discipleship.

Staff respectfully. Perhaps I am missing something. How is cheap grace a false teaching? Are you saying the above quote is false? Or that cheap grace itself is false? Could you clarify please?

For that matter would anyone in the forum agree with the above quote from Bonhoffer. This sounds pretty biblical to me.

Bearmaster.

P
passerby

It was the apostle Paul who was first accused of being a false apostle who teaches the cheap gospel of grace.

Quote:

"Cheap grace is the forgiveness without requiring repentence, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ."

What then is repentance? baptism without church discipline, communion without confession, or discipleship?

When the thief on the cross was promised that he will be taken in the paradise, was he forgiven, what repentance did he exhibit?

The great religions are all preaching repentance and those other things as well.

L
Lordoitagain


I have begun reading the book, and so far I have found it a very good resource on the subject. I found a better download link where you could download the whole book at once.

http://freechristianresource.weebly.com/uploads/9/5/7/0/9570043/gospel.pdf

The book defines the shocking reality that many unsuspecting "believers" will come to when they realize that they are forever banned from heaven because they were deceived while on earth.

I just read this good summation of the issue:

"Those who profess to be His children yet persist in the practice of lawlessness even after enlightenment are deceived. People who have been truly born again yearn to be holy; they "hunger and thirst for righteousness" (Matt. 5:6). God is at work within them to complete the good work He began in their lives (see Phil. 1:6; 2:13). Thus, if our faith is not resulting in our sanctification (increasing holiness), let us not think our faith is resulting in our justification (being declared guiltless before God) either. There is no such thing as justification that is not followed by sanctification. For this reason Scripture says, "Pursue...the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14, emphasis added). Heaven is not for the unholy."

J
joliboy11

yes,
http://freechristianresource.weebly.com is a mini website I created...

I thought before that I am already "born again", "repented" and I am "preaching" it. It was the book I read that I realize my sinfulness and doing religion "to please men" then I've been really born again, it is really humiliating but the most wonderful experience I had.
There is also sincere but false repentance, that have only momentary effect/s.
The book brings you to reality that "no sinner will enter the kingdom of heaven". It will banish your false hopes and point you to embrace the Gospel of Jesus.

Thanks to David Servant.

M
MrBillPro

staff.....Their is no such a thing as cheap grace.This term is of itself is false teaching.
Yours Staff

Amen! the only kind of grace I know of is AMAZING GRACE!

S
staff

Hi Passerby,
Paul never used the term "cheap grace".It doesnt exist in the bible.It is a term made up recently as far as i can see in a reaction to the present condition of the western church.The "cheap grace gospel" is another gospel.Dont put words like "cheap grace" in Pauls mouth.
It seems to be used to control Christians and putting them under condemnation.Their is enough false church discipline to go around.It is just similar in a way to "touch not the lords anointed "teaching.
The reason we dont have discipleship is because we dont have leaders with Apostolic authority.We dont have people with that gift in the Church.
I can see that all these areas you mention need addressing but this non biblical term "cheap grace" is just name calling in my opinion.

Quote :It was the apostle Paul who was first accused of being a false apostle who teaches the cheap gospel of grace.
Yours Staff

P
passerby

Sorry, you got it wrong, let me say it again, the apostle Paul was accused of the following allegations:

1. That he was a false apostle.
2. That he teaches the gospel of cheap grace.

Remember how much he suffered even from the hands of the judaizers.

P
passerby

If someone is wondering about that, please read carefully the NT start with the book of Galatians.

Let us be cautious with our judgement or accusations. Let us define carefully what is 'easy-believism', 'decisionism', 'altar call', or 'cheap grace'(by Bonhoeffer)lest we fall into a craze like Saul of Tarsus when he was persecuting the early Christians then.

E
Elibeth

Hi Jolliboy11 ,
I have not read this book that you mentioned by David Servant,as yet,
but I would like to comment on this SO important subject,(false-grace-gospel) Please bare with me.

After an encounter with the Spirit of God,desiring that I study "the kingdom of Heaven / God", and stemming from what He showed me,with study
and time...

One morning He spoke to me and said: "The kingdom of God,is the
resurrected Lord in us" I then,as soon as I could,went to the the Scriptures to confirm this Word. I learned,...it was so,...he is not a dead Spirit /Word in
us,but Alive....Life

He taught me,that He comes in,by Way of the Holy Spirit to be Lord,(rule)
be our King in this kingdom.that He is drawing us into,by the Spirit of Grace.( by this Devine influence upon the heart,and it's refflection in the Life.)

And, that the Gospel is the Gospel of the kingdom....
I,...with the help of The Lord,...searched this out,in the Scriptures,
and Jesus would say," THIS Gospel of the kingdom"shall be preached "so the Gospel is," The gospel of the kingdom"
That in it,..all revolves around this...and as I continued, I was amazed to find that in Paul's writings,that he was preaching "the kingdom of Heaven / God,...
.." things pertaining to or concerning the kingdom.

What I find is,...if we can believe in the word Jesus,..and not what that Name stands for,...then there is no obligation in the doing of the Word.

Grace Drawes us to repent,and to be washed by the Water of the Word...to be clothed in righteousness.

All for Him,
elizabeth


S
sermonindex

Respectfully, my brothers, we can split hairs over the terminology. Whether one calls it cheap grace or hyper grace. It js still an insideous teaching being popularized in the body if Christ. It's bottom line teaching is all sin is under the blood and the Christian is not obligated to pursue practical holiness or crucify the flesh on a daily basis. Any such activity on the part of the believer is construed as legalism.

In the most extreme perversion of grace Christians can sin and not need to repent. A brother in Charlotte NC, whose name I cannot remember. But was posted in the forum a few weeks ago is addressing this herectical teaching.


It might be worth looking at Jude 4 as he writes about such men who have crept into the church and were turning the grace of God into a license for sin. As someone has said. There is nothing new under the son.

My thoughts.

Bearmaster.

S
sermonindex

Elisabeth agree with your precious insights about the kingdom. The resurrected Jesus, his word in us. I think of the verses in Titus that speak of his grace that not only brings salvation. But his grace teaches us to say no to "no" to ungodliness and worldly passions. And to live self controlled, upright, and godly lives as we wait for his return.

Indeed this is the true grace of God.

Bearmaster.

L
Lordoitagain

What the book points out is a very needed subject in this day in time. It points out that grace was bought by the blood of Christ (certainly not cheap!), but the if grace has truly been applied in the life of a person, there will be EVIDENCE in the form of a transformed life. The perverted grace (or cheap grace if you wish to call it that ... it means the same thing) that Jude 4 mentions is "grace" that becomes a license to sin.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Sadly, I have seen more of that version of "grace" amongst people who supposedly believe in Christ than the real grace that teaches what Paul to Titus states:

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


The sad reality that he points out in the introduction is that MANY will be like the unsuspecting Jews who were hauled off to death camps like Auschwitz thinking that they were being fumigated for lice but they were being gassed to death to be burned.

MANY will stand before Christ in that day ...

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

P
proudpapa

Will the theologians please Sit Down by David Bercot, Scroll publishing p 5-7

Casper Zacher trembled in fear as he was led into the courtroom in chains. He glanced around the room, looking for sympathetic faces, but he saw none. instead, he spied a number of his enemies-townspeople with whom he had argued. Casper desperately studied the face of the judge for sighns of sympathy, but all he saw was a stern countenance. Casper was convinced he faced certain death.

The Year was 1562. The place was the town of Waiblingen in southwestern Germany. The Charge heresey. The scenrio was one that had been witnessed countless times in Europe for a thousand years or more. Most of those heresey trials had been conducted by RCC authorities. However, the authorities whom Casper faced were Lutheran. Times had changed, but the nature of Christendom had not.

Casper could scarcely keep from trembling when his turn came to stand before the judge. The charges were read. He was being accused of heresey--specifically of belonging to a group known as the Anabaptist. When asked to enter his plea, Casper emphatically denied the claim.

I'M A good lutheran, Casper protested. I've never had anything to do with those horrid people!

The state then methodically presented its case against Casper. One by one, various townspeople took the stand and testified against him. Several people described Casper as an envious an , always coveting what others had. Nearly every witness testified that Casper was extremely quarrelsome, frequently getting into arguments and fights with others. They pointed out that they had heard him swear and curse in public many times. A few witnesses reported that he had nearly always carried a knife or sword with him when he went out of his house. The whole town hated him.

When the witnesses finished testifying, Casper was certain he would be found guilty. He knew he couldn't deny the truth of what the witnesses had said. Looking Casper staight in the eyes, the judge cleared his throat and began to speak:

Haveing heard all the evidence presented by the state's witnesses, this court finds the defendant, Casper Zacher..."

Casper swallowed hard, dreading to hear the judges next word.

"....innocent"

Caspar could hardly believe his ears.

The judge went on to explain his decision: "The witnesses are uniform in testifying that you are an envious and quarrelsome man. You fequently curse in public, and you go about town carring weapons. You are a disagreeable man, justly hated by your townsmen. But fortunately, you are obviously not one of those detestable heretics, the Anabaptist. For the life you live is exactly opposite theirs. They would never have you. You are just as you say, an orthodox christian.

It was a happy day for Caspar Zacher, but a black day for christianity. A man was acquitted of heresy because he lived an ungodly life.

S
staff

Hi Again,
Terminology is everything on this thread.
This term cheap grace does not appear in the bible full stop.
Bonoeffor didnt write the bible last time i checked
The problem here is that we have Christians not behaving the way they should and you dont no what to do about it except call them non
Christians or in danger of becoming so.
It also brings up the issue can a person loose his Salvation which is probably what this thread is really about.
Its amazing to me how quickly people forget that they were once sinners and that we cannot live in Ivory towers,
Yours Staff

S
sermonindex

I have to agree somewhat with Staff here.

I understand the concern with the watered down message that is preached in many churches, and the need to get back to what the gospel is all about. However, I'm not sure books such as the one linked are necessarily the right way to go about it.

I actually read David Servant's book (and a load of other stuff from his teaching ministry) a few years ago, and descended into a black depression after doing so. The message had the following effect (which I will present in the form of a syllogism):

- The teaching states that the true gospel will produce a high standard of holy living and righteousness in you, and if that isn't you then you're not saved.

- You then look at yourself and, after musing on actually how sinful your heart is, conclude you must be a false Christian.

-You then cry out to God for 'true' salvation, on multiple occasions.

- However, this 'true' salvation and high standard of holiness does not seem to come.

- You then (after perhaps trying to live out the true Christian life and failing miserably) conclude that you must be eternally damned and...

- You actually begin to despise this god who refuses to save you.


I am convinced that this happens with many, many people.

Faced with such a gloomy prospect I found myself with only two options:
1. Continue to believe that I am a 'false' Christian (one which God seems reluctant to turn into a 'true' Christian) and live in the resulting misery.

2. Reject such teaching that, frankly, makes God appear to be very stingy when it comes to mercy, and instead believe on scriptures (such as John 6:37) that clearly say the opposite.

Naturally, I chose the second option(though the whole thing does haunt me on occasion, as many of my posts on here make evident).


I don't want to discredit Mr. Servant - his ministry 'Heavens Family' does some amazing work around the world, and the approach to money, giving and finances that they model and promote is praiseworthy.

However, I really question how beneficial this particular teaching is.

S
sermonindex

Respectfully brothers. Can one have s relationship with Jesus and not hve a changed life? 2.Cor. 5:17 says if anyone is in Christ Jesus he is a new creation. The old is gone. The new has come.

Bearmaster.

S
sermonindex

Again I say respectfully. Hairs are being split over terminology. The question is. Can one be saved by grace and still live in a continual state of practicing sin? The message of Dave Sergent's book should be examined. Is he bringing up a valid concern? Is the teaching if hyper grace or cheap grace a dangerous heresy? Is this a valid concern to the body if Christ?

Brarmaster.

S
staff

Hi Bearmaster,
I am saved,I am being saved and I will be saved!
Even Paris Reidhead didnt attain this higher Christian level(altough I have reservations about ten shekels) until years after he came to Christ!
If you are a Prodigal dont come to this site!!unless you want to crawl through the doggy door!
Yours Staff

S
staff

Hi Brother,
Terminology is the beginning of structure in the Church and in the world.If anyone wants to confront sin or false teaching then let them use scripture like Paul used for the edification of the Church.The modern "western"church is exactly that,it is the "wild west"of Christianity and if it is that then hyper pentecostalism,blab n grab is the "OK Corral" I know that and I know God will have to intervene.Things have got crazy!God is a Just God but that Justice is tempered with amazing mercy and hard to fathom Grace,
Yours staff

A
a-servant

Always amazing to see when people respond to book recommendations without reading it. As if your opinion as a non-reader really would matter in regard to the content of the book. I would at least try to read the first chapter, to regain a minimum of credibility in this thread.

To argue that there are no false grace teachers today is like being afraid to open your eyes and face reality as it really is. Warnings are all over the Bible, you just don't want to hear them and think about how they relate to actual people you meet, or watch on religious TV channels. Don't close your eyes on reality, and insist it doesn't exist, both in scripture and in your daily life.

2 Timothy 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


L
Lordoitagain


"by joliboy11 on 2013/3/24 0:37:41

yes,
http://freechristianresource.weebly.com is a mini website I created...

I thought before that I am already "born again", "repented" and I am "preaching" it. It was the book I read that I realize my sinfulness and doing religion "to please men" then I've been really born again, it is really humiliating but the most wonderful experience I had.
There is also sincere but false repentance, that have only momentary effect/s.
The book brings you to reality that "no sinner will enter the kingdom of heaven". It will banish your false hopes and point you to embrace the Gospel of Jesus.

Thanks to David Servant."


What further evidence does one need? Here is a living testimony of how God used the message of this book to make joliboy11 realize that he was in error, and to bring him to true repentance. There is no better evidence than fruit! Good fruit!

I had never heard of it until you posted it, but THANKS! May God raise up more men of valor to write books like Paul's letter of I Corinthians that will bring people face to face with their lost (while religious) condition until they find true repentance:

2Co 7:8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

S
staff

Hi A-servant,
it is amazing to me that you respond to the thread without reading it!Not one person on the thread argued that their are no false teachers in fact the opposite(this is a red herring introduced when their is no biblical argument)
Every body knows the situation we are in,nobody is closing their eyes.I dont want to read the book but I am responding to the heading of the thread which is saying their is a term called "cheap grace" which is a makey uppey term and not from the bible,
Yours Staff

T
TMK

Hey Staff--

"Cheap" grace is a descriptive term. I dont think anyone is saying that Paul, or any other biblical writer, used the term "cheap." I don't think the word is in the bible at all. However, the term "cheap" grace does a good job of describing something. So does "easy-believism" which is similarly not a term found in the Bible. But we know what it means.

Nor is "calvinism" or "arminianism" in the Bible. They are simply descriptive terms.

I think your indignation is misplaced.

S
staff

Hi TMK,
I know it is discriptive term but it describes unbiblical teaching that Grace can be cheap which is totally against scripture and against the great sacrifice of Jesus.We dont know what it really means.Grace is grace we are either in it or we are not.It can not be cheap.It is not a term like Calvanism or arminiansm.It certainly does not do a good Job in describing what is going on in fact the opposite it muddys the good name of "grace" a hard earned term.
It is a term that is used to forward an agenda that leads to a two tier church.The haves and the have nots.
The western church have many problems as we know and the only answer on this forum is to call them non Christian(Cheap grace)or to imply that they are on the road to losing it.
Come up with real answers to these problems,
Yours Staff

A
a-servant

Hey staff, sorry I didn't realize this was your thread or you started to claim it from the moment of entering it. Let me hint at the distinct possiblity that you overlooked the author's introduction to the book:

He says : "The primary difference is that the modern gospel portrays a grace that is foreign to Scripture, a grace that is actually a license to sin." and as a summery of that thought he also used a term that describes that reality. (it's an analogy that hints at devalution of something precious)

And you said, this term doesn't exist. Well, I could re-translate it for you and call it "lascivious grace". (it's an analogy that hints at lasciviousness presented as grace by re-defining it without renaming it). Does that exist? In scripture and/or popular culture?

How does the author proof the validity of his claim? What is God's answer? Did the apostles come to the same conclusion as the author regarding the true gospel? Or is it all based on blank theories and misunderstanding of analogies?

These are things we could discuss whenever you or someone else checks the authors claim based on the actual content he presents.

S
sermonindex

Brothers respectfully I ask. Are we addressing a bersg, a hetctical teaching about grace? Or is the greater danger over terminology?

Let me put it another way? Can one be a followser of Jesus Christ and still live in sin?

Bearmaster.

M
MrBillPro

bearmaster....Let me put it another way? Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ and still live in sin?
Bearmaster.

Mr. Bear, could you please describe "live in sin" to Mr. Bill? We all sin, what is living in sin? is it someone that sins one time a day, or 100 times a day? Isn't sin, sin? or is there a point or number of sins we commit, before we are considered living in sin?
Thanks
Mr. Bill

T
TMK

MrBill wrote:

"We all sin, what is living in sin? is it someone that sins one time a day, or 100 times a day? Isn't sin, sin? or is there a point or number of sins we commit, before we are considered living in sin?"
-------------------

It's not a matter of quantity, it is a matter of mindset.

From I John 3:

"5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother."
_________

I am not sure how this scripture can be misunderstood. It says that a person who is born of God CANNOT keep on sinning, or make a practice of sinning.

The best analogy I have heard to explain this is that of walking vs. stumbling. When we are walking along, and we stumble over something, we don't like it. It embarrasses us. We look around to see if anyone saw us stumble. In other words, we don't WANT to stumble and we don't make it a practice to stumble. We want to walk free from stumbling, at least if we are a normal person.

The same is true of sinning. Yes, we will stumble, but we don't like it and we don't want to do it. In fact we will go to great lengths not to do it, at least if we are a Christian. If we could care less about it, and we do make a practice out of it, then we are not a Christian. That is clearly what John the apostle says.

S
sermonindex

Mr. Bill, my brother.

Sorry not to clear in ny post. Bro there are certain charismatic preachers who ars saying that you need not repent of your sins. That after coming to Jesus everything is all under the blood. If you look upon a woman with lustful thinking. No need to confess and repent. If you vet angry with your bro or sister. No need to repent. Indeed you can commit sin of any type you need not repent. I have heard of one preacher who says when you sin God smiles at you because you are covered in Jesus.

Something not quite right here.

Hope this explains what I was trying to convey.

Mr. Bear.

S
staff

Hi A-servant,
I never claimed this was my thread.What I am saying is Christians should stick to biblical terms to describe what is going on rather than make up terms to suit their agenda.
Paul clearly deals with the subject of Christians that are sinning and preaching another Gospel and doesnt muddy up the good name of "grace".
Cheap grace is another gospel no matter what the good intentions of the writer.
We know their is a problem of false Gospels in the western church but I have seen no solution put forward on Sermonindex other than "they arent really christians in the first place"(some people are in this category)or they "are going to loose their salvation kind of thing"
My guess is that no solution or hope of a solution will appear on this thread either but I do believe God has a plan to deal with these great issues,
Yours Staff

A
a-servant

"Cheap grace is another gospel no matter what the good intentions of the writer"

Yes, that's exactly what the writer says. These are the intentions of the writer to point that out, with lots of proof.


"My guess is that no solution or hope of a solution will appear on this thread either"

You misunderstand again, because you see yourself as the not-reading-the-book critic by assumption.

This book actually gives one of the best presentations of the true gospel in book form outside of the Bible. Why anyone would not want to read that is beyond me. The solution you choose to overlook and speak against is presented with all major key doctrines and also with all possible objections included, and answered as well.

S
staff

Hi A servant,
So you are agreeing that their is no such a thing as "cheap grace",Just explain better and I wont misunderstand!
Yours Staff

P
proudpapa

RE ///....agreeing that their is no such a thing as "cheap grace",Just explain better and I wont misunderstand!
Yours Staff///

Grace is not cheap but we relieze when people use such terminology that they are referring to lasciviousness

M
MrBillPro

Posted in wrong thread. :)

P
pilgrim777

by staff on 2013/3/24 13:42:45
Hi Again,
Terminology is everything on this thread.
.
.
.
It also brings up the issue can a person loose his Salvation which is probably what this thread is really about.

Speaking of terminology, you cannot lose your salvation like losing a set of car keys. Why do you use that term, staff? "Losing your salvation". That implies that the person lost their salvation due to no responsibility of their own. That is not a biblical term. The Bible teaches us to believe on the Son of God and keep believing on the Son of God, to abide in Him and keep abiding in Him. We don't come to Christ one time, and and say a prayer and then go our own way. True salvation produces true fruit. People don't realize that a true disciple will not only exhibit fruit (that lasts) but works, too.

The Bible terms are unbelief, hardness of heart, impenitent heart, stiffnecked, uncircumcised heart, disobedient, etc.

Here is an example: Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

I have just never seen, "lose your salvation". But if we can talk about the previous words I gave, we could make more progress, since they are bible terms.

by staff

Hi A-servant,
I never claimed this was my thread.What I am saying is Christians should stick to biblical terms to describe what is going on rather than make up terms to suit their agenda.

With all the new Bible versions coming out we are fast approaching the extinction of "biblical terms" and the Christian "vocabulary". That's another thread going on right now. a-servant has some good posts on it.

I think one of Gods solutions to deal with the issues of our time are annointed teachers that respect the Scriptures and have His heart. But they get run out of town by the contemporary scholars, wordsmiths and Greek "experts".

by passerby on 2013/3/23 22:02:03
When the thief on the cross was promised that he will be taken in the paradise, was he forgiven, what repentance did he exhibit?

What the thief exhibited was taking a stand for Christ in front of a mocking crowd. He corrected the other criminal. To me, the thief who received forgiveness, instantly manifested faith and a changed heart by his open confession for all the world (those around him) to hear. Hallelujah! God bless that bro!

Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.


And he said, LORD, remember me...

He looked at an emaciated, bloody, no resemblance of a man's body and called him LORD! And said "remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom".

I don't know about you, but that looks like FAITH to me!!

P
passerby

The great false religions also advocates hating sins, development of virtuous character, moral excellence, good manners, and good conduct. Even the humanists and the atheists also teach them but they will never attain salvation because of their unbelief in Jesus.

Let me quote these words of Charles Spurgeon (http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0044.htm):

"You know there are degrees of faith, and yet the least faith saves; so there are degrees of repentance, and the least repentance will save the soul if it is sincere. The Bible says, "He that believeth shall be saved," and when it says that, it includes the very smallest degree of faith. So when it says, "Repent and be saved," it includes the man who has the lowest degree of real repentance.

Repentance, moreover, is never perfect in any man in this mortal state. We never get perfect faith so as to be entirely free from doubting; and we never get repentance which is free from some hardness of heart. The most sincere penitent that you know will feel himself to be partially impenitent.

Repentance is also a continual life-long act. It will grow continually. I believe a Christian on his death-bed will more bitterly repent than ever he did before. It is a thing to be done all your life long. Sinning and repenting—sinning and repenting, make up a Christian's life.

Repenting and believing in Jesus—repenting and believing in Jesus, make up the consummation of his happiness. You must not expect that you will be perfect in "repentance" before you are saved. No Christian can be perfect. "Repentance" is a grace. Some people preach it as a condition of salvation. Condition of nonsense! There are no conditions of salvation."

S
staff

HI Pilgrim,hope you are well,
When using the term "loosing your salvation" I am expressing the sentiment some other people have not myself.I am more in line with a view ranging from you cannot loose your salvation to its extremely difficult to loose your salvation.
The problem with the "anointed preachers" is they have no power and also a poor understanding of the end times,
With you on the thief couldnt imagine what the bible and the Church would be like without that Passage,
yours staff

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