Let's bake a cake

Um, you cut the verse a little short...it actually says "tithes and offerings". Which, I have heard will tally up to a total of about 50%. Please take a look at the Biblical place for the tithe (warning, it's long):http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheTitheisIllegal.html

Also, here is a little diddy that Mark Spence, the Dean of Ray Comfort's "School of Biblical Evangelism" wrote: Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government (always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary). The issue has been greatly confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel. Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite's tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today's income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to operate the nation. All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary (cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no percentage or amount was specified. New Testament believers are not commanded to tithe. Matthew 22:15-22 and Romans 13:1-7 tell us about the only required giving in the church age, which is the paying of taxes to the government. Interestingly enough, we in America presently pay between 20 and 30 percent of our income to the government--a figure very similar to the requirement under the theocracy of Israel. The guideline for our giving to God and His work is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: "Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver." With that said, It is my personal conviction, if you do feel tithing is for today and you wish to tithe then I ask that you do not send your tithes to Living Waters or WOTM. I believe you should support your local church body. If you desire to give anything beyond that obviously we would put it towards the production of more books, tracts, etc... -mark

Tithing...show me any scriptures that comes out and states that it was done away withCheck out the link I posted...it's probably about 20-30 pages printed out. There are many scriptures there. BTW...I did not say not to give (again, read the article). I just said don't stick a number...such as 10% on it. If you are really a Christian, then God owns it all. Ask Him, and He will probably lead you to give quite a bit more than 10%.

BomarI like the Mark Spence quote, can you tell us exactly where you sourced it? Thanks.

Well, I suppose those among us who don't have blue tassels on the borders of our garments today are lawbreakers and are accursed children. That was a perpetual law you know. I haven't found in the New Testament that it ceased.There are literally hundreds of commandments in the Torah for which I cannot find in the New Testament writings a specific cessation clause. But I can know that these are not requirements for New Covenant Priests because I understand the NATURE OF THE NEW COVENANT.I'd be very careful cursing people with the word "thief" or "lawbreaker" based on Levitical commandments if I were you. Of course, you can do as you wish though. But...a word to the wise...The great Accuser and Enemy is the one who likes to continually try to bring people who have DIED to the law back into its condemnation. One of his favorite schemes...one in which he has been greatly successful among the churches.

Bomar I like the Mark Spence quote, can you tell us exactly where you sourced it? Thanks.Yes...a similiar topic came up on the School of Biblical Evangelism forum. Someone thought their church was wasting the funds on pot lucks or laser lights or something...so the person wanted to tithe to living waters instead. The link is www.biblicalevangelism.com, but you must be a student in it to get in on the forum.

So since no one can show me that Malachi 3:8-10 has been done away with by Scriptures and God has protected the scriptures and made sure that I have them after everything (and I know the history of the deliverance of the Bible) ... then I will follow these scriptures and teach others the joy of it until someone can Plainly show me that God has a different idea that he plainly wrote out for me to live by.That's cool...one is convinced he can eat meat, the other that he can't. But a warning, if you really "adhere to Malachi", then you MUST give far more than 10%....the scripture says tithes AND offerings...which, as stated, comes out to be 20-33%, depending on how you figure it. Prayer4am, the tithes and offerings were to run the government of the OT. Anythign above that WAS voluntary, and however much someone wanted, according to how much the loved the Lord. Please don't misunderstand me, or that article. What I am saying is that in the New Covenant, there is a totally new relationship where you give "as you purpose in your heart", according to your love for Him and desire to spread the Word. BTW...what did Paul mean when he said And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law??? I personally am in trouble, because I do have cotton/polyester blends of clothing ;-)

Tithing...show me any scriptures that comes out and states that it was done away with. Tithing falls under the "types and shadows" of the Old Covenant. All of the types and shadows have been done away with and fulfilled, of which tithing was part of. Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.Deuteronomy shows that tithing was tied to the temple and its ceremonies in the following passage:Deuteronomy 12:5 But you shall seek the LORD at the place which the LORD your God will choose from all your tribes, to establish His name there for His dwelling, and there you shall come. 6 There you shall bring your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, the contribution of your hand, your votive offerings, your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herd and of your flock.Notice how in this passage tithing is mentioned in the midst of sacrifices. This passage makes it impossible to divorce tithing from the temple and its sacrificial system. The sacrificial system and the temple and the priesthood were all types and shadows of the things that were to come, but now have been done away with. The burden of proof here does not rest on people to prove how tithing is not for today, rather the burden of proof is for people to prove in light of such passages how tithing can possibly be for today. Those who do not give like God spells out in Malachi 3:8-10And the previous 2 chapters of Malachi also spell out a lot concerning other sacrifices besides tithing, and levitical ceremonies. For example, Malachi 1:6-14 talks about how Israel was offering sacrifices that were not up to snuff. People treated their sacrifices with disdain, and God was insulted over it because it shows how lightly they treated the majesty of God. They would surely not offer such a sacrifice to their governor... how much more should they not offer such a sacrifice to God?Malachi 2:1-9 is a rebuke to the Levitical priests for not being just instructors as they ought to be. Their lack of reverence God says has corrupted the covenant of Levi. Malachi 2:10-16 likewise makes mention of the activity made at the altar, because Judah has been faithless and is guilty of adultery. So, Malachi makes mention of other sacrifices, along with tithing given some special attention. But, this only shows once again how the tithing system was tied to the temple service, and sacrificial system, just as we see in Deuteronomy 12. Tithing is no longer required.

Man, stop jumping on someone cause they think and believe different. This was suppose to be a light post at first.Pardon? Who do you accuse of jumping on someone? I can't say I've seen it yet in this thread. It is hardly a "light post at first" if you accuse your brethren of stealing from God when in fact they are not. Your own words from your first post:Stealing is a pretty strong thing to accuse someone. Indeed, it is. Brother, we ought not be this way with eachother.

Wow! first time I have seen this thread "maybe God was hiding it from me there goes my free will again" Lol. I can't really contribute to this at all I have never heard of anything like this "Stealing from God?" He will forgive us right? wish I could key in here but this is way out of my league I will leave this up to my Father to deal with he knows all so should be a breeze for him.Father I have done everything on the posters list I am sorry I repent! please forgive me! ah! Now that I am forgiven I feel much better, hey that wasn't so hard, Now were was I?

Does anyone have an idea where Israel ends and the Jews of the heart start? Some of the cleverer ones among us would say the cross, which is spot on, but what I mean in terms of the moral code placed upon them in regards to their relationships with each other. The ceremonial law has been abolished in the cross with Jesus fulfilling every requirement and in fact becoming the temple. What of the moral law? The royal law of loving GOd and loving man is the NT answer, but what of the 613 odd laws that RobertW refers to at times, how many of them are still binding?

prayer4am wrote:Can we bake a cake together? It's just as much fun as making a mud pie!As long as you don't steal it. 8-)

Does anyone have an idea where Israel ends and the Jews of the heart start?deserves a separate thread I think.

I scanned through this post really quick, I'm just curious about how the thread turned that starts with prayer4am wrote:Can we bake a cake together? It's just as much fun as making a mud pie!Ended up in a heated debate about tithes and offerings? Wether or not you thinkit is for today, giving in some form, in my humble opinion is. Jesus when confronting the pratices of the Pharisees who gaves and fasted and prayed to be seen, says "When you give. . .pray. . .and fast. ." so, again, just my opinion, the word when might not be just a nice suggestion. I think it all boils down to the motive. Are you giving to get blessed? Then you're wrong. Are you "sowing to reap" then your wrong. If you give because you love God and long to see the Kingdom grow for his glory, then your right in your givin (praying and fasting too.) God's not a business man, baseball coach or CEO--He's the sovergien God of the universe! Give! Support the church but trust in God! Give to the poor and the needy and always remeber the words of the old hymn:"The strong the tempted and the weak are one in Jesus. ."

I scanned through this post really quick, I'm just curious about how the thread turned that starts with Quote:Can we bake a cake together? It's just as much fun as making a mud pie!".........Ended up in a heated debate about tithes and offerings? Confusing, I know. I thought it was a new thread, but found quickly that it was the same thread on tithing I was reading yesterday, it's just been renamed and heavily edited. I think Crsschk spoke about this recently-----if we edit, we need to show others we have edited.....leaving the original discussion in so others are not confused about the seemingly strange responses which don't seem to "fit".........

I scanned through this post really quick, I'm just curious about how the thread turned that starts with Not alone here.And this has been addressed previously:Regarding "Editing"This is the post that was originally titled something to the effect of "A thief amongst us..."And did indeed have to do with tithing.PJ, This is a improper use of editing. Greg may very well may have to remove this helpful utility if it is going to be used in this fashion. How can anyone know what is going on in a thread if we are to come along and alter it later, leaving everyone else's replies disjointed?If you have found that what you wrote is not appropriate, then explain so and recant or explain in a follow up. This is not an arbitrary function to be yielded any way you choose and is not taking into consideration others here.Also, the penchant around here for thinly disguised and overt cynicism towards one another over difference of opinion is not casually done away with by a wave of the hand or another pronouncement to lighten up, even if it is not said in so many words.This also applies to the assumptions thrown about by Picky400. This is unnecessary, it is grievous and it must cease!There has been more than enough patience granted around here for those who want to press their own particular agenda's at everyone else's expense, whether that is intentional or not.This stubborn refusal to consider others more valuable than themselves. The attempt to bring these issues to light in so many different ways, the divisiveness, the slandering, the lack of respect for those who have much experience in the things of the Lord and even the operator of this website, Greg Gordan, all being disregarded.Am frankly disgusted with it.Any number of postings related to this:WARNING Another, and a well stated approach, read TonyS amongst the others, especially:Let Us Be Cautious With Our WordsIt has been reiterated over and over again what the thrust of this ministry is and now the tendency to drag it down into the gutter...:Community RulesWithin these guidelines is something that is completely overlooked. If you're replying to a post, stay on topic as much as possible.-If you're posting a new topic, do not post something that has been discussed numerous times. Browse the forums first or use the Search function.The sense of audacity and self promotion is appalling, no consideration, no contemplating, no searching not only of the forum but of the heart.Have backed off here for awhile, because these things always cause self examination of my own intents and planks. One is an issue of conduct, that which 'we' try and moderate. The other is the issues of the heart. Have no 'thus saith the Lord' to pronounce.Have no desires other than to learn and grow in the things of the Lord and this site is Rich in them.Greg Gordan has poured himself out into all that you see and hear, here. Countless hours, money, sweat and certainly tears over what has been happening around here of late, especially now that he can't give the attention to this site that he once did as he pursues studies in a Bible college.All this is Freely given.And to some it seems it's just some place to spout off any old thing that comes to mind.Prior to this I was not angry, but grieved.Now I am angry, as if that mattered. But let me just state that if Greg were as involved now as in times past, much of this would never had seen the light of day.Futile as it seems, this will be posted in the ignored "WARNINGS" thread as well.Disgusted.

Thanks for clearing it up... I had no idea what this thread was about and how it got on titheing. I thought it was going to be about baking a cake? or making mud pies? :-) Maybe a SI pot luck? haha... i dont mean to be offensive in the humor sorry if it did.

Did i miss something Picky400? What is going on? I must have misread something...

The royal law of loving GOd and loving man is the NT answer, but what of the 613 odd laws that RobertW refers to at times, how many of them are still binding?Hi ZekeO,That is a hard question because if I say none of them it will sound antinomian- if I sort through them and filter out all the ceremonial stuff I have just given you "some rules". The Jews compiled the 613 Laws after the time of Jesus. It was simply a way to try and codify all the writings of Moses into 613 laws. There are 365 don'ts and 248 do's. They built upon this with 'fences' around the law in order to keep people from breaking them. This became known as the Talmud. It is all dead religion!You could find the list on the internet and look through them. It is of limited value- though it is interesting to see what God means by 'loving Him' and our 'loving our neighbor.' The law is good only if it is used lawfully. What we need to focus on I believe is simply reading God's word and allowing Him to write His word upon our hearts. That is the covenant we are under. If I walk in the Spirit I will not be transgressing the laws of God. If I am "in the flesh" then I have not the Spirit of God. But we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us. We are changed into HIS image from glory to glory by the SPirit of God. in that the law is not something we do, but it is who we are as the workmanship of God. We need to the word of God to get it into our heart; but we must allow the Holy Spirit to write it on our hearts and minds as we meditate upon the word and memorize the word. When the Holy Ghost needs to He will 'check' you and call to remembrance the word He wants to 'pull up' to direct your behavior. God Bless,-Robert

Matthew 18:15-17“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.The New King James Version. PS between you and him PPS. I will Miss Prayer4am GOD be with you brother.

Why does it say Anonymous?