WHY DIDN'T THE WELSH AND THE AZUSA STREET REVIVALS MEET ?

I spent much part of the month of April reflecting on all I know of the Azusa Street Revival and also thanking God for that move of His Spirit. This is because records tell me that that move of God started gathering momentum at about the second week of April 1906.

As I reflected on the Welsh and d Azusa Street Revivals and the links that seem to exist between them, one question that always pop up in my mind is "why didn't the Welsh and the Azusa Street Revivals meet?"

First of all, this question found the basis for a moment's consideration in my mind because of the link that seem to exist between both revivals and the hunger in the hearts of the leaders of these revivals on both sides of d Atlantic for a bigger outpouring even at the peak of God's work in their locality.

Its on record that about a year before Revival broke out in California, Brother Bartlemann began and maintained a consistent correspondence with Evan Roberts. Brother Bartlemann would later became one of the leaders in the Azusa street move. At the request of Frank Bartlemann, Evan Roberts listed for him some principles for securing Revival and bade him to pursue it. I've had reasons to treasure some of Evan Roberts's letters to Bartlemann most dearly. The one Evan told Bartlemann "what can I ever say to encourage you in this terrible fight" makes me very emotional.

Evan Roberts also promised to mobilise prayers for a God-sent Revival in California. "May God send Revival to California" he prayed.

Its also on record that Brother Seymour and the other leaders in Azusa still desired and anticipated a greater outpouring than that which they were enjoying at the time at 312 Azusa Street. This could be seen from the letter Brother Seymour wrote to Dr Parham in which he is said to have expressed the hope that the coming of Dr Parham will lead to the outbreak of what he called "the great one."

While the leaders in Azusa were desiring an outpouring greater than what they had at the time, Evan Roberts was also praying for and desiring same. In one of his writings at d time, he spoke of a Revival far greater than the Welsh Revival of which he said he'd been asking for permission to help bring it about. In d very next sentence, after what seemed as if he couldn't secure any Divine assurance of his participation in this mother-of-all Revivals, he said "thousands shall do more than we have done."

Over 100 years later, we having the privilege of overview know that no other Revival in d 20th century had surpassed their's in glory. Its as if the "great one" they kept refering to is still ahead.

My question is; when the leaders in Azusa sensed the need for a more experienced hand to offer leadership to that move of God, why didn't they send for Evan Roberts instead of Dr Parham? Dr Parham came with a critical spirit and in his own words "found conditions worse than he had anticipated" as is always d case for those who approach every new move of God with an already biased mind. They always find "conditions worse than they had anticipated."

My next question is, when the leaders in Azusa found Dr Parham's spirit too harsh to be accomodated in d Azusa work and had to show him the door, why on earth did Bro Bartlemann not suggest Evan Roberts's name to Bro Seymour and d others?

And then the million dollar question: after Evan Roberts had written to a Brother in California outlining certain principles for securing Revival and also promised to mobilize prayers for an outpouring in California, why wasn't he tempted to cross the Atlantic when the news of d Azusa street Revival outbreak topped the charts around d globe?

Obviously, nothing gladdens the heart of an intercessor like an answered prayer! Many a prayer-warrior would traverse air, land and sea just to witness first-hand what God has done in answer to his/her prayers. Afterall in Luke2:24-38, Simeon and Anna who'd prayed for "the consolation of Isreal" conquered the barrier of old age and rushed up to d temple to see the infant Jesus just before he's dedicated. I guess they were so excited to see the answer to their prayers that they forgot the weakness posed by old age.

So why didn't Evan Roberts cross the Atlantic? Wouldn't a contact with d "American dream" have made him into an international property as was d case with his other compatriots like J.Edwin Orr, Smith Wigglesworth, Ravenhill, Derek Prince and others from d British Isles ? (This is just for teasing sake, I do not believe these individuals wouldn't have become public properties had they not been to America).

As I pondered on these endless questions, I remembered that Dr F.B Meyer -who was one of d most celebrated preachers in Britain at d turn of d twentieth century- expressed happiness that Evan Roberts wouldn't take any step presumptiously unless he was assured of Divine approbation.

In his own words Dr Meyer said "I have d privilege of personal friendship with Evan Roberts and greatly thank God that he will not go in front of the Divine Spirit, but is willing to stand aside and remain in the background, unless he is perfectly sure that the Spirit of God is moving him. It is a profound lesson for us all."

Could that be the reason? Could it be that Evan Roberts was so sensitive to d Spirit that he was hindered from crossing the Atlantic like the case of Apostle Paul (Acts16:6-7) was hindered by the Spirit to preach in Asia and Bithynia?

Could it also be that the same Spirit had prevented the hidden motions of the hearts of the leaders at Azusa -especially Bro Bartlemann- from ever thinking of inviting Evan Roberts to grace the Azusa Street Revival with his presence?

The truth is only Eternity would answer these questions satisfactorily. Until then its human for us to speculate.

The fact remains that both Evan Roberts and Bro Seymour didn't consider the Welsh & the Azusa street revivals of 1904/5 and 1906 respectively the greatest ever in Church history. They both saw a greater Revival ahead and tried to reach out for it. It seemed Evan Roberts knew its not for him while Brother William Seymour reached out for it by inviting Dr Charles Parham whom he thought would prepare them better for it.

Hypothetically, I assume that the course of recorded history wouldve been different had Evan Roberts crossed the Atlantic especially at the peak of what God did in Azusa Street in California.

I submit that if those two Revivals had met, the spiritual synergy generated wouldve caused a ***SPARK*** never before seen in all of Church history. Chances are that such a move wouldve sparked off a wave of evangelism that wouldve prepared the World for rapture long before even the Antichrist is ready to take over. That means we'd have had d rapture before certain structures necessary for the soft-landing of the Antichrist were already in place. Structures like d modern Indepedent State of Isreal which ddnt exist till 1948; United Nations which is necessary platform for one world govt & religion; Internet banking & radio frequency Identification device RFID all necessary for d fulfillment of Rev13:17 and a host of other structures.

If those two revivals had met and d relevant "hypothetical synergy created," it means our LORD wouldve come a little earlier and the list of things that wouldve been out of place would go on for ever.

D LORD in His infinite Wisdom restricted those brothers just to create the opportunity for my generation. While we wonder why the Welsh and d Azusa Street Revivals did not meet and why Evan Roberts, Brother Seymour and their class of Revivalist only hit revivals once in their lifetime and never struck again, we must remain humble and grateful to D LORD that those brothers who went ahead of us were restricted from pioneering the last move of God just to create the opportunity for you and Brother Emeka.

Brother Emeka writes from the heart of tropical Africa - Nigeria!

The Greatest ever Revival is coming everyday that passes is one more day closer.

Colin

Also in the heart of tropical Africa - Nigeria!

Each time I hear that Brother Collin, some part of me is stirred. Can't wait to witness this move of God that will produce the Church without spot; without wrinkle.

As I walk through the streets of my neighbourhood, I see a massive influx of muslims from northern Nigeria who're fleeing the activities of d dreaded Boko Haram terrorists. Tried preaching to one of them some days ago but gave up in frustration due to language barrier.

Even as I gave up in frustration, I was imagining what it'd be like if we'd experienced this outpouring we're yearning for. Language then would never be a barrier. We wouldn't need to struggle arguing with Muslims. The very atmosphere we carry would bring their arguments under subjection.

A Pastor told me never to expect a repetition of what happened in Azusa. He believed those times are gone. Popular definitions of revival here is so diverse that the term itself gets sullied in d mulky waters of definition. Am told that there's now a revival against corruption; against electoral malpractice , revival of properity, etc.

I think its a subtle trick of d enemy to so confuse the term "Revival" with ambigous & far sweeping definitions that the real meaning of it would get sullied by default.

I wish the LORD by His Spirit would hasten our preparedness and then pour out His Spirit and save us from all these embarrassment.

Am American wrote a book entitled "don't start the revolution without me," on a personal basis, if I have my way, I'd pray "please LORD don't this Revival without me or when am gone."

Quote: I think its a subtle trick of d enemy to so confuse the term "Revival" with ambigous & far sweeping definitions that the real meaning of it would get sullied by default

If we truly expect a move of God, God stepping down and affecting whole country's then we can only expect for his people that a part of it to be Holy, any other than that would be a farce...

Part of Duncans Campbell's testimony

Will you make me as holy as a saved man can be?’ It was Robert Murray M’Cheyne's prayer. Instantly the power of God the Holy Ghost fell upon me on that horse's back, bringing cleansing and renewal until I felt as pure as an angel." "The consciousness of God was so real that he thought he was going straight to heaven. But God had other work for him to do, and this experience was preparation for it

Quote: Even as I gave up in frustration, I was imagining what it'd be like if we'd experienced this outpouring we're yearning for. Language then would never be a barrier. We wouldn't need to struggle arguing with Muslims. The very atmosphere we carry would bring their arguments under subjection

Here is an part of Duncan Campbell testimony.you find this part in it..

Oh, I was weak. My voice wasn't strong. I began to talk about Jesus in Gaelic. There wasn't a man there who could understand me. To them it was a strange language, but a strange stillness and peace came upon the whole casualty station. One young lad said, ‘Trooper, can’t you speak to us in English? We are seeking Jesus.’

"It wasn't long," said Duncan, "before I discovered powers resident within me that were fighting against my desire for godliness and holiness, a power well entrenched in my nature, a power that battled against my best endeavors. So with the Apostle Paul I frequently cried, ‘Oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death? The good that I would, I cannot do, and the evil that I hate, that I do.’ However, the day came when that was changed, and changed under very strange circumstances, when my mother’ prayers and my plea for deliverance were answered. I found myself severely wounded in a cavalry charge outside Amiens, the last cavalry charge of the British army, April 12, 1918. It is a terrible thing to be in a cavalry charge when machine guns are levelled at you, firing five and six hundred rounds a minute. That was what we had to face on that fearful morning. I lay wounded on the battlefield; the blood was flowing freely; I believed I was dying. I was very conscious of my unfitness to appear before the judge of all the earth. Two things troubled me: I felt so impure, and I knew that I hadn’t led any soul to the Saviour. We had often sung on the farm: ‘Must I empty-handed go? Must I meet my Saviour so? Not one soul with which to greet Him? Must I empty-handed go? Could I but recall them now, Oh, the years of sin I've wasted! I would give them to my Saviour. To His will I'd gladly bow.’

But I was dying, I thought. And then, a miraculous thing happened. The Canadian horses were called out to a second charge. They charged over that bloody battlefield toward the enemy in a body. Men were dying; men were lying wounded; the whole field was littered with men and horses in distress. A horse's hoof struck me in the spine. The mark is still there, and I must have groaned. In the providence of God, that groan was heard by a Canadian trooper. After the charge, again in the providence of God, that trooper came right to the place where I lay and saw that I was bleeding profusely. He lifted me as gently as he could, placed me on the horse's back, dug the stirrup right into the horse’s side; and that steed galloped with fury toward the casualty clearing station. Would I be alive to reach the casualty clearing station? Would my soul be in eternity before my body was lifted from the horse? These were the thoughts that coursed through my mind. As I lay on that horse's back, I remembered a prayer that my father frequently offered at family worship. I prayed the prayer from my heart, ‘Oh, God, I'm dying. Will you make me as holy as a saved man can be?’ It was Robert Murray M’Cheyne's prayer. Instantly the power of God the Holy Ghost fell upon me on that horse's back, bringing cleansing and renewal until I felt as pure as an angel." "The consciousness of God was so real that he thought he was going straight to heaven. But God had other work for him to do, and this experience was preparation for it...The sequel to this divine visitation gave him his first taste of the supernatural work that can accompany the touch of the Holy Spirit upon His people. (Andrew Woolsey) "Some people say that there isn't such a thing as a definite experience of the Holy Ghost subsequent to conversion," said Campbell. "My conversion was real; my regeneration was wonderful; but it paled before the revelation of Jesus that came to me on that horse's back.

Then the horse stood at the casualty clearing station. Loving hands lifted me and laid me down on a stretcher. The place was crowded with wounded and dying, mostly Canadians. I was immediately aware of a sense of great power bearing me up. While being treated for my wounds, a nurse began to sing in Gaelic, ‘There is a fountain filled with blood’, and I responded by trying to sing in Gaelic, and what I sang was a psalm: ‘Oh, thou my soul, bless God the Lord; and all that in me is, be stirred up. His holy name, I will magnify and bless.’ Oh, I was weak. My voice wasn't strong. I began to talk about Jesus in Gaelic. There wasn't a man there who could understand me. To them it was a strange language, but a strange stillness and peace came upon the whole casualty station. One young lad said, ‘Trooper, can’t you speak to us in English? We are seeking Jesus.’ Men with little thought of God, moved by the Spirit of God, making His impact upon sinners. God swept in and within an hour, seven Canadian wounded soldiers were deeply convicted of their sin and trusted in Christ. That's why the baptism of the Holy Ghost in its final analysis is the revelation of Jesus. I know that when that baptism of the Holy Ghost came upon me on that horse's back, the supreme reality was Jesus. Oh, how wonderful it was! There in the casualty clearing station, wave after wave of divine realization swept through; sinners cried to God for mercy and sinners found the Saviour." "In his weakness," wrote Woolsey, "Duncan praised God for His wonderful goodness and felt an overwhelming desire to see His power displayed in such glorious acts of mercy…He realized then, that while our present surroundings…are the fields in which we fight the battles of faith, it is in the spiritual realm that we win. This is the secret of spiritual power. Consequently, a new thirst for God, a thirst for revival, a thirst to see repeated manifestations of God’s saving power, took hold of Duncan Campbell, as he left an earthly battlefield to devote himself to the spiritual war from which there is no discharge."

You can read the full testimony here

http://www.calltoprayer.org.uk/revivalpreacher9.html

or listen to it here

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=7

thank you both for posting ,,iv herd the testimony of cambel a few times now ,,this is the first time iv read it

Thank you those gracious words Sir! I'm also filled with delight each time I ponder on those men who shook the continents for our God.

Heaven would really be a heaven not just for its streets of gold, but for the privilege to walk, talk or sing side-by-side with such men as great as these.

Thanks for the book on Evan Roberts Sir. My love for that my "brother from another mother" is almost spiritual. As far as it lieth within me Sir, I never let his words fall to the ground. Each time I discuss him and the Welsh Revival to which he's strongly associated, I feel like taking off my shoes because it seems am treading on holy ground. A statement he made during a lecture to students at Bala college in which he said "the Spirit of Prayer cannot come unless there's is the readiness to work/evangelize," has almost become for me a mantra and a recipe for key-ing into the Spirit of Prayer who's the prelude to every Revival.

I've been to the link on Amazon Sir, but as usual they placed a price tag on the book. Am required to add "to my wish list" and provide Credit card details, pay for shipping etc. Please if you can find any link through which I can download a free pdf copy Sir, I would be grateful. I was lucky sometime ago to download a free pdf copy of D M Philip's book on Evan Roberts with my phone and it's remained one of my most treasured possessions.

QUOTE: "what if.....God sends missionaries FROM Africa to North America?....pray on that would you? " I sincerely would Sir. At d moment, I do not rule out d possibility that this Revival that would set the stage for the last Awakening could have its flashpoint in any of these third-world or less econolically privileged countries. Having worked on this for years, I've learnt not to rule out such a possibility.

God's richest blessings Sir!
Brother Emeka (still at d heart of tropical Africa)

QUOTE: "Oh, I was weak. My voice wasn't strong. I began to talk about Jesus in Gaelic. There wasn't a man there who could understand me. To them it was a strange language, but a strange stillness and peace came upon the whole casualty station. One young lad said, ‘Trooper, can’t you speak to us in English? We are seeking Jesus."

Thanks for the above quotation and the others you paistakingly posted Dear Brother Collin. I found them particularly helpful I tell you. They made me remember Bro Campbell's other account of the time of his spiritual crisis when he said his daughter told him "Daddy, whatever d cost,go (or get) thru it with God."

Its always good to see you online Sir! I find your comments at other threads helpful and the weight they carry makes me feel they're inspired by a depth of spiritual experience and not just what somebody read in books.

You once came to my rescue when one of my threads degenerated into a session of heated argument. Couldn't find time to come back to thank you.

Have been away from SI forums for almost six months. Its always good to be back!

your most welcomed it been a wile since I posted

you sound very moved in you heart regarding the coming revival ,,and the passed ones ,,it is very very refreshing to see that

you humble attitude is apresiated

blessings

The pleasure remains mine Sir!

Krautfrau said, "Roberts would have been willing to give counsel and pray for those involved with Azusa, but would not associate with it otherwise because he will not have classed it as true revival though he may have thought revival could grow within it. He would not denounce it but would keep his distance."

You are saying this, sister, because you knew Roberts personally, of course.

As to what you have said about tongues, the experience of thousands of Christians proves you wrong on this.

Allan

QUOTE:
"The answer to your question is very simple but you will not like it."
Those words hit me hard and made me prepare for a shocker.

QUOTE: "He would not denounce it but would keep his distance." This was intended to serve as a key but -for me- its turning into a lock. My mind has gotten busy thinking of how Evan Roberts could've done that. I don't DOUBT it for a moment but I just can't help imagining how he'd have stood aside.

Remember am only speculating what history wouldve been had Brother Roberts crossed d Atlantic.

QUOTE: "You are saying this, sister, because you knew Roberts personally, offcourse." Did you have d privilege of knowing Evan Roberts personally Ma'am? May wish to ask you what it was like to meet him in d flesh.

Really appreciate your post Dear Sister! God's richest blessings!

QUOTE: "Despite this, it is clear that Roberts did have sone contact with Azusa, and could you give some referrences please." I'm not sure I got that right Dear Sister. Did you mean to say that "its not clear Evan Roberts did have some contact with Azusa" and therefore wants some referrences?

You're very particular about referrences Dear Sister Brenda. This is to my utmost delight I tell you.

When I say that Evan Roberts was having communications with Azusa, I meant he was communicating with Bartlemann. For d purposes of clarity, I'd quote what I said earlier:

"Its on record that about a year before Revival broke out in California, Brother Bartlemann began and maintained a consistent correspondence with Evan Roberts. Brother Bartlemann would later became one of the leaders in the Azusa street move. At the request of Frank Bartlemann, Evan Roberts listed for him some principles for securing Revival and bade him to pursue it. I've had reasons to treasure some of Evan Roberts's letters to Bartlemann most dearly. The one Evan told Bartlemann "what can I ever say to encourage you in this terrible fight" makes me very emotional.

Evan Roberts also promised to mobilise prayers for a God-sent Revival in California... My next question is, when the leaders in Azusa found Dr Parham's spirit too harsh to be accomodated in d Azusa work and had to show him the door, why on earth did ***Bro Bartlemann*** not suggest Evan Roberts's name to Bro Seymour and d others?""

I can't give you particular references as to d pages where Mr Roberts letters to Bro Bartlemann are but you'd find them in Frank Bartlemann's book with d title "How pentecost came to California." It was once available as a free downloadable pdf file at www.ccel.org but not anymore. Its been more than a year d book's pdf file in my phone corrupted but not before I'd managed to memorise one of his letters to Bartlemann and I'd be glad to post it if my memory would serve me right.

Frank Bartlemann: "For several days I had a feeling that another letter was coming from Evan Roberts, and it finally came . "

Loughor Wales Nov 14 1905
My dear comrade, what can I ever say that will encourage you in this terrible fight. I find it a mosr awful one. The devils kingdom is being besiegedon every side.Oh d millions of prayers (not simply the for of prayer) but the soul finding its way to the White Throne. May God bless you with a mighty downpour. In Wales it seems like God rests upon d churches awaiting the opening of the hearts of d people. We had a mighty downpouring of the Spirit last Saturday. This was preceded by correcting the peoples views towards worship. Therefore looking to God and forgetting d devil, we prayed and the Spirit descended. I PRAY GOD to hear your prayer, to keep your faith strong and to SAVE CALIFORNIA. I remain your brother in the fight Evan Roberts.

Bartlemann comtinued: "this is d letter I received from Evan Roberts and I feel their prayers had much to do with our victory in California."

You'd find out more on their correspondence when you get d book. You people in the West are privileged to find such classic books in your local stores whereas they're hardly found here.

The Pentecostals arose from the Holiness tradition, with its Wesleyan doctrine of sanctification. Wales was Calvinist Country in those days - even the Wesleyans called themselves "Calvinistic Methodists."

More importantly, Pentecostalism was universally rejected by the professional clergy, in Wales and everywhere else. G. Campbell Morgan called it "the last vomit of Satan." R.A. Torrey said, "it was emphatically not of God, and founded by a Sodomite. W.B. Godbey called it "sensual and devilish."

I just threw this in to make sure we don't run out of things to fight about.

QUOTE: "I just threw this in to make sure we don't run out of things to fight about."

Come on Brother Wayneman! I know you didn't really mean that. I know you wouldn't want to hurt d feelings of this Brother at d heart of Tropical Africa.

I especially wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of a brother named Endless Joe. Cool name.

If there was a point to my post, it was that these two revivals were divided by doctrinal distinctives. But more importantly, the professional clergy do not like people who claim direct experiences with God, apart from the mediations of the church. The early Pentecostals liked to say, "Attend any church, or none." This did not set well with the authorities.

Frank Bartleman cared nothing for doctrinal orthodoxy. He joined the Oneness Pentecostals and was rebaptized in the name of "Jesus Only." He then accepted Durham's "Finished work of Calvary" doctrine. He embraced both of these movements because he saw increased spiritual vitality among people who accepted these new teachings. He later rejected them both because they were causing division in the Body. He was very pragmatic, and changed doctrines like he changed clothes. At least he was free from the superstition that Deity is preoccupied with theology, and that God will torment people in eternity for having unorthodox doctrinal opinions.

Bartleman believed that the Lord was returning the church step-by-step to a restoration of apostolic Christianity. "Like the waves of sea at floe tide, with each wave reaching higher up the sands - and each new wave being resisted by the receding wave that came before it. Every revival movement has failed God in the end, but never without leaving behind a foundation on which the next revival company can build."

I'd say more, but I've gotta go to work.

Hahaha!!!
Thanks Dear Brother!
Thanks for the company we share.

Frank Bartleman did indeed have correspondence
with Evan Roberts . Bartleman was an intercessor
and was in great travail for revival. When he got
the news of revival breaking out in Wales, he
wrote to Evan Roberts and received a reply.

Evan Roberts not coming to Azusa had nothing
to do with the manifestations of the Spirit
that were taking place at Azusa. For Evan Roberts
departed from the Welsh Revival at the suggestion
of Jessie Penn Lewis. Most of the writings
say that Evan had a emotional breakdown.
Evan lived in the Penn Lewis home for a number
of years and was greatly criticized in Wales
for leaving the Revival. Evan believed that
God was calling him to a prayer ministry.
Therefore it is unlikely that Evan would have
gone to Azusa even if he was asked. Evan
later rejected much of what Jessie Penn Lewis
wrote concerning the Welsh Revival. At the
time of the Welsh Revival Jessie Penn Lewis
was at odds with much of the leadership in
Wales.

As with most revivals, what started out as
true moves of God did not have a good ending
for a number of reasons including the counterfeit
work of the enemy and poor leadership. God
needs leaders that will allow the Holy Spirit
To be in control, but will also deal with excesses.

I am writing this on my cell phone, so please
excuse the way that the sentences are structured.

Mike

This is a quote from www.revival-library.org

"It is claimed that Mrs. Penn Lewis used
Evan's name to propagate her own ministry
and message. She supposedly convinced
him that he was deceived by evil spirits and
over the next few years co-authored with
Evan "War on the Saints", which was
Published in 1913. This book clearly
delineates the confusion that she had
drawn Evan into. It left its readers totally
wary of any spiritual phenomena of any
kind of degree. Rather than giving clear
guidelines regarding discerning satanic
powers, it brought into question anything
that may be considered, or might be
described as Holy Spirit activity. Within
a year of its publication, Evan Roberts
denounced it, telling friends that it had
been a failed weapon which had confused
and divided the Lord's people."

Dear sister,

Having written that quote on Jessie Penn
Lewis and Evan Roberts, I would just like
to say that I have read many of Jessie
Penn Lewis books and consider her works
on the cross and spiritual warfare to be
some of the best. T. Austin Sparks and
Watchman Née were greatly influenced
by her works.

Mike

Hezwilling, yes I will add more this evening.

Bartleman wrote 7 books, all of which are available here:
http://www.ccel.org/search/books/frank%20bartleman?

His chronicle of the Azusa Street Revival, "How Pentecost came to Los Angeles" is the most detailed first-hand account.

Azusa was different from most of the great revivals because it did not have a big impact on its community, but nevertheless spread all over the world in a short time. In Los Angeles the Azusa Street mission was no big deal. The LA Times published one funny article about the "new Sect of Fanatics on the loose!" That was all the local media attention they got. The crowd was never more than 400.

But this is where Bartleman comes in: it was his glowing accounts of the revival, published in three different holiness magazines, that brought pilgrims from all over North America, who received the Baptism at Azusa and then brought the blessing back to their own communities.

Ivey Campbell brought the movement home to Akron and from there it spread quickly thru the midwest.

Rachel Sizelove brought the message to her hometown of Springfield, Missouri. She published a pamphlet called "A Sparkling Fountain for the Whole Earth," telling of a vision she saw, in which a "beautiful, bubbling, sparkling fountain" sprang from the ground in Springfield, and grew until it deluged the whole land, then the whole world. She interpreted this to mean that Springfield would become the center of a world-wide blessing. Five years later Springfield became the home of the Assemblies of God, which has sent out tens of thousands of missionaries to every corner of the earth. Today there are 400 million pentecostals in the world.

As you can see, I've done quite a bit of research on the early Pentecostal movement! It is definitely an edifying study, especially Bartleman's Azusa story.

KrautFrau,

The short bio Mike referred to is here:
http://www.revival-library.org/pensketches/revivalists/robertse.html

There is very little information about Evan Roberts' life after the revival. He left no memoirs and to my knowledge never made any public remarks about Ms. Penn-Lewis. He is quoted as calling "War on the Saints" a "failed weapon" just a year after its publication. Whether he really said that or not, it is a fact that he continued living with the Penn-Lewises for several years after that.

Roberts' sudden disappearance from the public view remains a mystery. There are several conflicting accounts as to why, and all of them are depressing. Some say he suffered a nervous breakdown, others that he collapsed from exhaustion. There is one anecdote that a cheering crowd gathered beneath his hotel window and he stepped out onto the balcony to respond to the acclaim, and lost his anointing because he accepted glory from men. Another story is that, at a prayer meeting, he prayed, "Lord, let me feel the full weight of what You felt on Calvary!" He collapsed to the floor in convulsions and went temporarily mad. His collaboration on "War on the Saints" led some to speculate that he became demon-possessed.

But never mind these doleful folk-stories; let's stick with what we know: his public ministry lasted 9 months, and he spent the rest of his life in seclusion. In his later years he wrote poetry and preached once in a while.

The Revival made Roberts an international celebrity. He could have traveled the world as a superstar preacher and written best-selling books. Instead he devoted his remaining years to intercession. I believe the Lord ordered his steps: he flared like a comet for a little while, then shunned publicity for the rest of his days.

"War on the Saints" may be the spookiest book ever written by a Christian (except maybe Dante's Divine Comedy, which isn't very funny). Mrs. Penn-Lewis taught that a Spirit-filled Christian could be demon-possessed. (Most editions of the book available today are abridged to exclude this doctrine.) She paints a harrowing picture of Revival, in which God is pouring out His Spirit on one side of the aisle and Satan is working wonders on the other side. It is enough to make the reader paranoid. Her instructions for discerning the spirits are so elaborate that you would have to bring her book along to meetings as a ready-reference manual.

For all that, I do not disrecommend the book. It does offer some valuable guidelines for trying the spirits. I read it when I was involved with the Toronto Blessing movement and having serious doubts about its validity. P-L wrote (and Jonathan Edwards concurs) that strange physical manifestations may accompany the movings of the Spirit, because His revelations may elicit a powerful emotional reaction, which may cause physical displays like shaking, sobbing, laughing, falling over, etc. However, the enemy's counterfeit spiritual experiences always *begin* with enjoyable physical sensations like "felt thrills of fire", tingling, dizziness and motor activities like hands moving uncontrollably or the tongue speaking all by itself, etc. The whole Toronto/Pensacola/Third Wave movement revolved around such sensations.

Well, like I said, it is a weird book.

Please don't ask me to reference all this. I am quoting from memory things that I studied a long time ago!

A Dear Brother made the following comments in another forum with the above title viz "My thoughts on the former point of discussion is that the Welsh revival was the last great explosion of Gods annointing on the new testament fulfilment of Passover before moving on through Reformation into the start of the restoration of Penticost or the fulfillment of the feast of weeks from memory of the old testament.

It is only now that we finally are at the verge of the fulfillment of the feast of Tabernacles do start to see a focus again on holiness. Yes hated by many because as they rightly say, it divides the church. How many great men of God have come in with a new broom and preached a series of sermons that cannot be tollerated by those who allow and ever promote compromise."

This seem to predict a resurgence of d "Holiness movement" vis-a-vis d current stand against Legalism. This is where Sister Brenda pontificates. We'd be glad to see her and other equally informed minds handle this.

Passover, feasts of weeks and of tabernacle in juxta position to Revivals... Interesting I tell you. Have never studied the subject along these lines.this cCould also agree with Bartlemann's view of the step-by-step restoration of the Church in which each succession of revivals leave a foundation to be built on by the next. But I still can't connect d dots. I ask for help!

Quote:This seems to predict a resurgence of the holiness movement.

I would totally 100% agree with that statement. If we are gods people and god is holy and we are to be like out god, holy, then there must be a resurgence in holiness.

Now to I think that means more rules and regulations.... God forbid it...

The issue I see it believers is not with the outward expression or lifestyle but the inward, heart purity of the believer. Holiness of heart.

If your have heart purity then all the outward expression or the outward walk of the Christian would line up with the inward reality.

Hi Joe. There are two models which proclaim the same thing. I will start with Hebrews 6:1? it says not to lay again the FOUNDATION and then it goes on to show seven steps from memory.

Many of these truths were restored after the dark ages. Please forgive my lack of scripture as I am just chatting. It is easy to read the scripture and check it out and then pray about it. Tradition of men make the word of God to none effect. I beg those of you/us who are looked into our view of the word of God as the only true version as firm and as deep as a prisoner in a dungeon, please consider there may be more light then you have previously enjoyed. Please consider..

the first foundation is repentance from dead works, I am led to believe that it was Luther praying as a catholic priest ascending the steps of the cisteen chapel and saying a prayer on each stair before ascending to the next to earn Gods favour. it was then that the Lord spoke to him and said it is not by works but by grace thus starting the prodestant move of God. Later more emphasis on faith in God the next step was proclaimed by many of the reformers. Then the baptism by full immersian was promoted and preached by the anabaptists and later by the baptists fulfilling part of the next step of baptismS, yes it is plural. Then the baptism of the holy spirit. Yes this will be hard for many. Please not each step is humbling and those who have not stepped forward are the most savage opponents of those who move forward.

Consider that Luther killed more anabaptists and with much more savagery than the catholics inflicted on him. And so it has been with each move.

After the doctrine of baptisms comes the laying on of hands, this is the move I came out of and yet in the 1980 we saw many men of God revealed to have fallen for the three Gs. Girls Gold or Glory. It has been said and impossible to prove that one third of all pastors one of the largest Pentecostal churchs was found to be morally wanting.

This is judgement in the house of God. To be part of the laying on of hands move although a later move than the Pentecostal move brings me no advatage as I am allready an entire move of God behind if I have not allowed God into my life to reveal and deal with hidden sin. (Welsh revival foundation)

The last foundation is eternal life. Judgement that we are dead in our sins and actually go through the day to day process Monday to Sunday of dying to self will only then see the last process of resurection life. Paul said it "that I may embrace the sufferings and death of Christ that I may attain unto resurrection life" or words to that effect. And Jesus DID it died and resurrected. Not only that but look at baptism, reckoned death that the new man may live.

This is only the seed so to speak the full process will bring us to the full nature of Christ. You ask where is my support for this? Ephesians 4 to the full stature of Christ. Notice that verse is growing a process not an event. What about without "without spot nor wrinkle nor anysuch thing"?
John 17, actually there is too many to mention.

Whare are we? I believe at the beginning of the last feast. The first part is the feast of trumpets. What does that mean to us? We are called out of the world where we put 1% of our income to mission and the church give only 4 or 5% of that to mission.

Others have a focus on numbers of souls and praise God I would like to be involved in a work that brings in hundreds of millions of souls but my hunger is for maturity.

It is so easy on a long journey to stop somewhere and say this is enough. The children of Israel left Egypt were baptised on the red sea, after Passover. They went onto Pentecost where the people fell into total degradation which is the foundation of the Pentecostal feast. Not surprisingly this was only 50 days into a forty year journey.

It is the rest of the journey that matters to me and should be to all of us. Remember they all died apart from Joshua and Caleb it was the NEW MEN (new man) that went into the Promissed land.

If I am right every man and his dog (australian vernacular) will clearly hear the call to come out of her my people, a call to get real and not just play church even if we are saved. I have been hearing it since I listened to David Wilkersons and realised this was the early part of a massive end time move of God.

Hopefully you will see several old testament shadows which bring light to our journey. If so you will realise the enormity of our journey in front of us. The children of God moved in the desert together and under the direction of the cloud by day a symbol fo the second baptism but do not forget they were also led at night by a pillar of fire. The last part of the baptismS. Baptism of fire, scary? the old man must die without compromise it is this death that brings the life of blinding glory. Not for us and yes I think of those who cast their crowns back to the lamb to give it back to him, what a beautiful example of the nature of Christ.

Hope this was not too interwoven to make sense. If none of that makes sense then maybe just keep this in mind as you walk the walk of faith... BUY the truth and SELL it not.

God bless Oskar.

Thanks Dear Brother Oscar for your post. I'm sorry my reply is rather belated. I've been away from SI forums for weeks having been engaged in a humble missionary work in a rural community without access to d net.

You raised so many issues in your post. I consider them as outlines rather than a detailed explanation on all d subjects raised. Thru ur post,it came stongly to me again that Pentecost came just about 50days after crossing d "reed" sea.

I trust that your "outlines" will serve as a guide as I engage in a delibrate study on these subject matters in d weeks ahead.

QUOTE: "Consider that Luther killed more anabaptists and with much more savagery than the catholics inflicted on him."

I've never come across this piece of information before now. Its really d dark side of our much celebrated "Reformation." I felt equally disappointed d day I read of a supposed "heretic" who was killed at d instance or consent of our dear John Calvin.

I pray that D LORD will not lay these acts to their charge on that Day.

endlessjoe wrote : ////I've never come across this piece of information before now. Its really d dark side of our much celebrated "Reformation." I felt equally disappointed d day I read of a supposed "heretic" who was killed at d instance or consent of our dear John Calvin.
I pray that D LORD will not lay these acts to their charge on that Day.////

Their seems to be much of protestant history that has been suppressed, when I started discovering these things, I became greatly disturbed and still am somewhat, because unawaringly we view much of scripture through the lens of these men.

The common denominator of all of these men are that they viewed Scripture through Augustines understanding, they all quote him as authoritive.

When I look at how Augustine indorced the martyredom of the Donatist.

How the Catholic inqusition feed off of Augustines view of his handling of the Donatist.

How Calvin not only endorsed the heretic Servetus death. But also showed no sympathy and almost seemed to be supportive of the martyredom of the Anabaptist Michael Sattler.

Calvin was no reformed Baptist he was very opposed to those whom deny infant baptism and teach believers baptism.

Zwingly had felix manz drowned for believing in believers baptism

the council of dort, did not react in a loving way

the early American puritans had the quakers put to death even when England told them not to.

I find none of these actions representing what I read in the New Testament.

Thanks Dear Papa for your post. As more of these histories hit me, I get quietly scared of what might be left of d love we have for those our Reformist Fathers as we gradually discover their dark side.

Though we should never shy away from history (whether protestant, sacred or secular), it becomes particularly disturbing when history threatens d very foundations of d Cause we cherish and represent. I guess that's why some would prefer to suppress the dark-historic-side of any movement they hold dear.

I still wonder if Acts 17:30 would apply in their case at d judgment day ie if D LORD would simply overlook d bloodshed (as days of ignorance) or hold them accountable for it.
Either way, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes & I also wish they never did it.