Move of God happening in South Wales!

Some of you may have heard of a mighty move of God occuring in Cwmbran South Wales since April.

In case some of you have doubts as to this move, I would like to voutch for the Pastor of Cwmbran Victory Outreach.
Richard Taylor was a friend of my dad (Yorrie Richards) they had similar testimonies and a lot in common! I know if he was here Dad would be in floods of tears at this move of God!

Richard is a regular guest at our church and as a fellowship we support the Victory Outreach work among drug adicts and young offenders that he founded.
Richard stands very firmly on sound doctrine. He often stresses 'according to scripture - everything according to scripture!'

This move of God started out of the blue when a member of the church paralised for ten years after a road accident acted in faith to the word being preached and to everyone's shock and awe stood out of his wheelchair and walked around the large hall holding his chair above his head as a trophy!!! The presence of God fell upon that church and has been there since!

Last saturday 60 local converts saved in the past month were baptised, during which another 17 came forward in repentance!

Our assistant Pastor and wife went this past week as they were in Cwmbran on business and were deeply moved by the repentance shown and the heavy presence of God. They have urged us to visit too when we next go to Wales.

We know that Richard has made a stand for the Gospel and has not compromised in the past and feel that God is now blessing him in a mighty way, he is just as amazed as anyone at the things God is doing and is exersizing wisdom and not allowing for 'burn out' through overdoing.

Drug addicts are being set free, folk with emotional & phsycological problems being touched by the Lord, their lives changing. Atheists coming in to view and mock have ended up on their knees with the power of God! Many folk are claiming healing although Richard wisely advises they be verified medically before informing the church.

Wales has been so desperate for a move of God, each year we go and drive around the Valleys we have felt the oppression and desperation in the air. We have seen the decline in areas due to unemployment and our heart as gone out to God to move again! God is hearing and answering the cry of the heart

As a continuation of my post - here is the latest post today from Cwmbran that I thought you'd like to see - notice also how the famous Welsh revival hymn 'Here is love vast as the oceans' was also sang!' very moving! will always remember us doing that at the Revival conference in Moriah Church, Lougher with Evan Roberts own violin being played!!

At our Cwmbran campus, since April 10th when the "Welsh Outpouring" began, we have now seen over 300 people commit their lives to Christ! We praise God for every single one and continue to preach the gospel and call people to salvation in every single meeting and also via the live-stream link! Salvation is of upmost importance and the Holy Spirit is drawing people to deep levels of repentance. Often people are weeping with conviction when giving their lives to Christ and are seeking deep change in their lives.

On Wednesday, Pastor Clyde preached a word centred around the blood of Christ and many people responded to be washed from their sin. it was an incredible sight as people poured to the front, crying out for freedom, through the blood of Jesus. After a time of repentance, people were ecstatic as the fire of the Holy Spirit was poured out resulting in great joy, dancing and praise! Prior to the word, 9 people had already responded to the message of salvation, after Pastor Richard proclaimed the Saviour and invited people to give their lives to Jesus.

The worship that night was electric as Pastor Richard led us in the great hymn, 'here is love' and people all around the building passionately reached out to God. The presence of God was thick and tangible and people reported incredible breakthroughs.

One guy who is on staff at the 'international house of prayer' in Kansas City, said that he hadn't felt such a tangible presence of God in years!

Another couple who are involved in a church in Bath, shared how the love of God, that is at work at Victory Church had affected them deeply. They said its hard to see how so much love can be at work, when so many people are here. Everything radiates love!

A lady phoned the church on Thursday to say that her hip has been healed and she no longer needs crutches, after 10 years of agony and multiple, failed operations! She is pain free, without Morphine and can run with her son! Her only concern now is keeping up with him and getting out of breath!

Another gentleman who came to the meeting with his rib sticking out due to a cancerous growth ran up to one of the pastors to say that his rib was back in place and normal! This had happened during the prayer for the sick! We are awaiting a further update once he gets checked out by the doctors!

On Thursday, the presence of God once again filled the people, many came forward for prayer for sickness and Pastor Kenny preached a powerful word from Luke 4. As he preached, people reached out to God by faith, and several people received Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

A young girl has been in touch to say that she feels completely healed from depression and anxiety, we praise God for this and continue to believe for her health as time goes on.

As time goes on, more and more people are coming and we are now needing the overflow room most nights of the week. We will continue to ensure that everyone who needs prayer, receives prayer and will always do our best to ensure provision is made for those who are seriously ill.

I hope many will labor so that these new believers will continue in faith in fellowship and discipleship. Let us all welcome them with open arms and see what we can do to help them as they walk in the newness of life. I am wishful that there will be cooperation among the local churches in the area rather than rivalry and cynicism so that they will have a sanctuary as they face the battle against sin, worldliness, and other temptations or difficulties as christians.

Bro Frank - in answer to your question, there has been no mention at all of South Wales on GodTV - I doubt very much Richard would allow it either. The members of his church come first, he is very protective of them and making sure it remains a local family church.

Thank you sister for these wonderful reports
of this move of God in Wales.

May The Lord be glorified and cause this
revival to break out beyond the church into
the community. May revival fire spread
throughout the whole region and beyond.
May the new converts be confirmed and
established in the faith.

Mike

What is also encouraging is that other
pastors are getting in this atmosphere of
the presence of God. Pastors need to be
revived also and to allow the Holy Spirit
to spread the fire to their churches.

Mike

I have heard reports about this, including direct accounts from people I know personally, (although I have to say, I do question the clarity of their spiritual discernemt at times). Not to say that what is happening in Wales is counterfeit, I genuinely dont know, and (post Lakeland) get increasingly skeptical of "revival talk" especially when it is experience or encounter based charismania and not Bible-Jesus centred. Anyway, I havent been to Cwembran Victory Church (or even set foot in Wales for over 24 years) But I would be very concerned if those Wagnerian ministers get in there, with all the talk about submission to NAR apostleship/god tv oversight, cities of refuge, portals, gateways etc etc, then quench the work of God's spirit, and "realign" it with the apostate church instead. You know the scenario, NAR apostles and prophetesses, ministers who operate under a lying spirit, who set it up as an elitist money earning Christ denying family dynasty business....I can sort of imagine a certain preachers wife, she may well be saying right now "I have a great uncles cousins grandfather who did gardening for Evan Roberts, this proves I have a stake in this move of God...so I should be leading it..."If those folk DO turn up, Pastor would be well advised to make them sit right at the back of the overflow and stay quiet, (and let God deal with them)-or turn them away if they try it on-which they almost certainly will, one way or another.

made me weep with jealously after watching the report from the link that andrew posted ,,praise god

Bro Frank.
I spoke this morning with our assistant Pastor's wife who attended Cwmbran on Wednesday with her husband. She is a lady who travels much with her husband especially to Eastern countries as they work in Missions and is a support link to missionaries.

She told me that while driving there the more into Wales she got the more her heart was yearning and crying out to God! She said that the presence of God there is so heavy and tangible, she has never witnessed anything like it in her life! They sang old time songs & hymns and people were running out to the front sobbing in repentance. She said that she could imagine being in the Welsh revival days, saying "this is what it must have been like!!"
She told me that she has never witnessed such repentance in people "No funny business!! absolutely nothing dodgy - nothing at all like you see on TV!!" she emphasised to me!!

Due to many conversions from the Rhondda valley too (approx 1hr drive from Cwmbran) they are opening a branch church next month to cater for those people too. My husband & I and family are visiting them in July.
Glad I kept dad's revival books!!

Our hearts are crying out to God to do the same for us here - on the Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire border!!

Frank if you can't find dad's notes we have copies on file that we kept from his PC if ever you would like any emailing - we also have family collection of CD's of some of his preaching that a family friend recorded for us when dad ministered at his church. You'll have to email me contact details. elainebarnes@hotmail.co.uk

I don't want to be negative, I mean we all want to see genuine revival and if people are truly getting saved (repenting and receiving new life) we should rejoice.

I've not heard of this 'outpouring' until now and so looked into it. Virtually all the reports I found are positive, however I am cautious about it. I listened to the Pastor's report, which mostly sounded good, but just a couple of things he said caused me to be cautious. He was encouraging everyone from around the world to come to Wales and 'experience' the presence of God. This is a common theme with the recent false moves, such as Toronto, Pensecola, etc. He talked about them sending out prayer clothes for people who needed healing. Again, very faith teaching type practice.

The I saw a clip of one of their song leaders singing the outpouring anthem song 'Just one touch from the King'. Very pop and concert type emotionalism was my feeling.

The there was this clip http://surehopechurch.co.uk/?p=5723 showing a brief overview of the event and it was a lot of laying on of hands and people falling over backwards and talk of the 'anointing'.

I cannot make a reasonable and fair judgement based on this brief look, but for me I am very cautious as to the direction it seems to be moving and will watch and see.

I know of someone who visited this church in South Wales about a week ago.

What's written here is on track with what I've heard.

Haven't been to visit yet, but just might.

God bless.

Other comments being said....

Welsh Outpouring! Written by Pastor on May 9, 2013

Truth be told the move of God in Cwmbran right now is easily traced back to Rodney Howard Browne. The anointing went from Rodney to Randy Clark to Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship. We received the anointing from Christchurch in Cwmbran some eight years ago when they were hosting a speaker whose life had been transformed after he visited TACF. Everything then broke out with us in Two Locks Church. Then half a dozen of our anointed people started attending Victory Church in Cwmbran and now Victory Church are enjoying the same Holy Ghost visitation as well. The truth is God is behind it all and we praise Him and bless Him and together give Him all the glory. Ever since Acts two the anointing has been past from one person to another and from one generation to another. LORD, we ask you for souls, more LORD.

http://twolocks.com/blog/

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I went to Victory Church in the beginning in Jan 2010 with my family back in a very cold church in Pontypool, later in the Leisure Centre and finally in the Warehouse in Cwmbran and it was wonderful to be part of. I have a lot of time for Richard as a preacher and the work of Victory Outreach however in July 2011 we withdrew from this church with Richards blessing, many others left at the same time.

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Still feeling considerably distressed and discomfited in spirit about this supposed "outpouring", I asked the Lord why this should be. He said, "Because it is not of Me. This is of the enemy, to cause division and disunity."
Sadly, I have seen it before, with Toronto, etc. The effects are both detrimental and damaging. As a victim, I know only too well. I am still picking up the pieces of lives blown apart.

Our Lord warned of greater deceptions to come in the Last Days and this is one of them. It needs those He has appointed as watchmen to sound the alarm. I am certainly going to!

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Can I please add my concern at the events taking place in Cwmbran. The "sermons" are very short, the Word of God is hardly used, it is all about emotions, feelings, impartations, the laying on of hands, and the stress is put heavily on healings and miracles!

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I do not think this is the work of the real Holy Spirit, but rather a false spirit which always seems to start the other side of the Atlantic in America, then catch on over here as British pastors and leaders from similar Pentecostal organisations take up the reigns

http://www.ziontalywain.blogspot.com.es/2013/05/more-negative-feedback-over-welsh.html

Brenda none of those comments are mine they are all from people from South Wales...

Edit:- spelling

The Word of God exhorts us to "prove all things and to hold fast to that which is good."

In every true move of God, you are going to find the enemy attempting to counterfeit the work. Where there is true fire, there will also be wild fire. Where there are true manifestations of the Holy Spirit, there will also be the false. This is the way that is has always been going back to the Great Awakening, where some of the most notable preachers came against the work, because they could not discern what God was doing, only the excesses.

It is too early to judge yet, and many are doing that. Having heard the young pastor speak, it seems to be that he has a heart for souls. There are many people getting saved and healed, and the presence of God is being testified to in the meetings.

There are some right here on this forum that would count any supernatural manifestation as coming from the devil. So you are just as guilty of unrighteous judgement as those that have no discernment at all between the true and the counterfeit.

Any true move of God will revive the Church. Saints who were cold and indifferent will become hot and on fire for God. Any true move of God will lift up Jesus, and not any man, denomination or organization. Any true move of God will cause bacsliders to come home, and the saints will be convicted of living a superficial life. Jesus is the center and focus of a true move of God, and He is glorified through the work of the Holy Spirit.

Mike

Excerpt from Frank Bartleman on "How Pentecost Came to Los Angeles."

"In the revival in Wales the great expounders of England had to come and sit at the feet of crude, hard working miners, and see the wonderful works of God. I wrote for the “Way of Faith” at this time: “The real thing is appearing among us. The Almighty will again measure swords with Pharaoh’s magicians. But many will reject Him and blaspheme. Many will fail to recognize Him, even among His professed followers. We have been praying and believing for a ‘Pentecost,’ Will we receive it when it comes?

The present Pentecostal manifestation did not break out in a moment, like a huge prairie fire, and set the world on fire. In fact no work of God ever appears that way. There is a necessary time for preparation. The finished article is not realized at the beginning. Men may wonder where it came from, not being conscious of the preparation, but there is always such. Every movement of the Spirit of God must also run the gauntlet of the devil’s forces. The Dragon stands before the bearing mother, ready to swallow up her child. - (Rev. 12:4.) And so with the present Pentecostal work in its beginning. The enemy did much counterfeiting. God kept the young child well hid for a season from the Herods, until it could gain strength and discernment to resist them. The flame was guarded jealously by the hand of the Lord, from the winds of criticism jealousy, unbelief, etc. It went through about the same experiences that all revivals have, its foes were both inside and out. Both Luther and Wesley experienced the same difficulties in their time. We have this treasure in “earthen vessels.” Every natural birth is surrounded by circumstances not entirely pleasant. God’s perfect work is wrought in human imperfection. We are creatures of “the fall.” Then why expect a perfect manifestation in this case? We are coming “back to God.”

John Wesley writes of his time: “Almost as soon as I was gone two or three began to take their imaginations for impressions from God. Meantime, a flood of reproach came upon me almost from every quarter. Be not alarmed that Satan sows tares among the wheat of Christ. It has ever been so, especially on any remarkable outpouring of the Spirit; and ever will be, until the devil is chained for a thousand years. Till then he will always ape, and endeavor to counteract the work of the Spirit of Christ.” D’Aubigne has said: “A religious movement almost always exceeds a just moderation. In order that human nature may make one step in advance, its pioneers must take many.”

Another writer says: “Remember with what accompaniments of extravagance and fanaticism the doctrine of justification by faith was brought back under Luther. The wonder was, not that Luther had the courage to face pope and cardinals, but that he had courage to endure the contempt which his own doctrines brought upon him, as espoused and paraded by fanatical advocates. Recall the scandal and offense which attended the revival of heart piety under Wesley. What we denounce as error may be “the refraction of some great truth below the horizon.”

John Wesley himself once prayed, after the revival had about died out for the time: “Oh, Lord, send us the old revival, without the defects; but if this cannot be, send it - with all its defects. We must have the revival.”

Adam Clark said: “Nature will always, and Satan too, mingle themselves as far as they can, in the genuine work of the Spirit, in order to discredit and destroy it. Nevertheless in great revivals of religion, it is almost impossible to prevent wild-fire from getting in among the true fire.”

Dr. Seiss says: “Never, indeed, has there been a sowing of God on earth, but it has been oversown by Satan; or a growth for Christ, which the plantings of the wicked one did not mingle with and hinder. He who sets out to find a perfect church, in which there are no unworthy elements, and no disfigurations, proposes to himself a hopeless task.”

Greg wrote: "Either way it is clear there have been over 100 conversions and it seems the Lord is working, we praise Him for this."

How can you make this statement that it is 'clear'? How can we possibly make a judgment that there have been 100 conversions! Surely only God knows and time will evidence if this the case or not, by lasting fruit.

The comment that Murrcolr posted about the connection to Rodney Howard Brown, et al should another warning of extreme caution about this supposed move.

What I don't quite understand is why many folk on here have immediately assumed this is a move of God, with some error mixed in. It could be the other way around. A false fire, but God may still touch some lives who are sincere in their search for Him.

I have watched a couple of the sermons by Pastor Richard (and maybe I picked the wrong ones), but what I heard was not a clear gospel message or preaching on sin and repentance, but a lot of joking (I mean constantly)and stories. My question would be, if there really is the awesome presence of God there, surely there would be a fear and reverence for God. You just could not joke your way through a sermon. I'm not against humour and the odd joke to make a point, but not stand up comedy! Were Duncan Campbell or Evan Roberts joking and flippant like a stand up comedian? I don't think so.

A decisive factor will probably be wether god tv are going to broadcast it!
"Nightly at 7.00 pm" or whatever, as if God will jump to our timetable....These revival efforts can so easily become like lourdes or Medugorje, must-do pilgrimage sites. I myself raced here there and everywhere to go to Nathan Morris's meetings 2 or 3 years ago, (well before Mobile started), but discovered, in reality it was a pointless excercise, better indeed to spend my time with my own Bible and in prayer (although of course this is the more demanding, less "glamorous" option....) than expect a preacher to do the short cuts for me and get me an anointing.

I dont think there is any mystery, doesnt God always respond to those who are broken, humble, finished, empty, devoid of pride, ambition or self interestedness? Doesnt He always respond to the preaching of the full on gospel of sin, hell, repentance, the Blood, regeneration etc, by speaking to sinners and being pleased to save thoise that are willing?
Someone somewhere, outside of the God tv/NAR axis has to speak up and confront the lying spirit that is behind decades of charismatic foolishness and deception.

I watched the online stream last night and I can't fault the preaching last night...

But I was also watching carefully those who went out to get prayed for, there was a little old woman sitting in view of the camera, she went out for prayer for healing at the end of the service you see her sitting there were arms shaking uncontrollably and she looked distressed about it so much that the man next to her had to give her a hug...

So here we have a church that message that's preaching is good, but another group of Christins have came in that are attached to Tod Bentley's Fresh Fire, a outpouring has started with signs similar to Tod Bentley's fresh Fire/Toronto Blessing type..

Watch it on live stream... for yourself.

Edit spelling

My family & I are feeling saddened by the negativity now happening to my post and horrified with the comparisons to the Toronto blessing and Todd Bentley of all people!!
There is absolutely no comparison here!

To share a little of our history with you, my husband & I was deeply hurt by the Toronto outpouring years ago, my husband, who was a leader in our (then) church, and myself were the only couple that stood up for the truth of scripture and experienced such hatred that after a year we were asked to leave. This broke my husband's heart as he cared so deeply for our church and fought to keep the truth, we left deeply depressed and in complete shock at the hatred experienced. For the next ten years we were out of church as there wasn't another in our locality we could attend. The Pastor of my family church, which I had left when marrying my husband and moving, showed us such love and concern at the time. Even though we were not members (although my mum & dad were) he loved us and supported us so much and kept a link going. We are now happy back in that church and have moved back.

We asked the Lord to heal that gap of ten years in our family and to have no ill affect on our children, which God has done in an amazing way and is even like it had never happened!
Our children are strong with the Lord, our daughter even going this year on missions to Thailand and is having a huge effect on the locals in her job as a check out assistant, customers are starting to attend church.

About 5 years ago another storm enterd our lives as this Pastor who cared for us so much retired, and one of our own young men became our Pastor. Yet because this young Pastor was born and grew up in our church this caused a rift with the older folk who couldn't, or rather 'wouldn't' come under his leadership.
Folk left and a barrage of critism was aimed at our church, even though our retired Pastor was happy with him and is still with us.

Some folk visiting our house at the time would start this critism of our church but we would ask them not to do so in our home, as how could we expect our kids to be happy and flourish in a church that is being critised in our own home! Today we have outgrown the church building and meet in a school theatre and have a building project. The church has a lot of respect in the town and has a lot of input socially.

After moving back to my home town to be near man & dad, Victory Outreach Cwmbran came to visit our church as they do regularly, and brought a mini bus full of boys from one of their rehab homes that had given their lives to the Lord. There wasn't a dry eye as they shared testimonies and sang.

After they went out for lunch (as my parents were away on ministry and know Richard & Cwmbran Victory church) we were so honoured to be the home for the group to relax and have a time of sharing with us.
My husband & I were deeply impressed with how the lads were protected by the group leader (now himself a Pastor) and the bible knowledge they had already gained. They were not to take anything we said at face value but were encouraged to question us further on what we shared and to think for themselves if it agreed with scripture.

They meet regularly for bible study but every day scripture teaching and study is essential in the homes. Of course these sessions are not filmed so you won't see them on you tube!!

You say there is no teaching of holiness, sin, repentance but I can assure you there is a deep understanding of such matters in that church. How often do hear nowadays preaching on 'the power of the blood of Jesus'?? yet that is what was preached last week when our assistant Pastor & wife were there. Richard is not one to show off the work he does in that church to the world! He is very protective of the community. Richard is such a stickler for the truth of Scripture. He was asked by the government to remove scripture teaching from their rehab homes, which he point blank refused to do, saying that the scripture was the very foundation of these young people's rehabilitation as it was in his life too and is the only way to change lives. Because of his stand on refusing to drop scripture, he lost government funding but The Archbishop of Canterbury office stepped in to support.
Richard would not compromise on the word of God in order to keep his funding! We know God is blessing Richard and his commitment and stand. He is just as stunned with what is happening!

As I have shared in a previous post our assistant Pastor's wife told me this week that this is nothing at all like you see on TV - no funny business! The presence of God is so heavy that she has never ever experienced anything like this (she's also experienced Benny Hinn meetings!!) She and her husband were deeply moved by the presence of God and the level of repentance shown among those going forward - folk were breaking down sobbing during the meeting.
Please don't nit pick due to phraseolgy, wording, humour (our Welsh humour is unique to us! Richard being Welsh,knows how to reach the Welsh) Don't forget even Evan Roberts had his critics and folk set against him - you wouldn't believe it! Even Lewis Revival had Christians in Lewis praying against it.
Down through history, the Wesleys were kicked out of church and had to preach in fields and market places - William Booth treated badly by the church because he cared for the poor and homeless. We are horrified at these accounts in history, yet can end up being the same if not careful.
I say this to myself too, we fought against Toronto in our ex church and we paid a heavy price for the fight! Yet the Lord knows that my hubby & I certainly would not want to be guilty of fighting a genuine move, as many Christians have done in history, we are going to attend to witness this for ourselves and my hubby is praying that he meets with the real presence of God and will be healed of the effects of the heart break that he suffered 20 years ago due to Toronto.

How can you make this statement that it is 'clear'? How can we possibly make a judgment that there have been 100 conversions! Surely only God knows and time will evidence if this the case or not, by lasting fruit.

The Church has been "conditioned" to believe that the manifestation of revival is the number of conversions rather than an uncompromising holy life that is being presently tested.

I will take notice of a "revival" when I see the fruit of it. Liquor and porn businesses closing, church officials and city officials repenting, churches on opposite sides of the street becoming one, divorced christians, reconciling, etc, etc.

Revival is not revival if it is just about nickels, noses and numbers within the church walls and everything remains the same outside of them amongst the people of the town and the 3 churches on the other corners of the block.

My comments are general in nature and are not directed to what is happening in Wales. I have not seen any videos, but just wanted to make a comment on the nature of "revival".

There is a "revival" franchising today whose goal only seems to be to stir up the folks within the church to be better church-goers and tithers and bring their friends and families in. Almost like a multi-level marketing business.

I think if people saw true revival where entire towns were turned upside down for Christ and people truly started living holy lives, that many Christians (who are religious and worldly) would persecute the revival and say they are being too "extreme".

True revival would actually scare a lot of "church-goers" and they would not buy into it. Because it would mean they would have to give up their idols and come clean.

If large portions of the town's unbelievers did get saved, many of them would shine the light on so-called "Christians" that were cavorting with them (in darkness), yet going to church.

Ceri, if God is moving you don't have defend the movement of the Holy Spirit. This is just an insignificant forum and I would not let what is written here cause you to lose your peace or rest in God.

Pilgrim

Whether what is happening is a work of God, the flesh, or the devil, I do not know.

What I do know is that we must be careful about the transformation that is currently happening, or in other words, the trajectory it is taking.

You see, let's assume that God really did heal a man on that first day. That would be wonderful! However, does that mean that God will continue healing while there is a buzz going on? I mean, really, why do we assume that God works best where there is a buzz? There was no buzz when that man was healed! (assuming he was really healed)

We should be careful, lest those with bad doctrine take over the "movement" which in the end will result in delusion due to the nonsense that goes under the name of a work of God.

Why do you think Jonathan Edwards called for discernment during the Great Awakening? Why do you think he didn't want things to take an ugly turn? It's because there is the real danger that enthusiasts will take over and turn people away from the central Christian faith.

If God is really moving powerfully, then GREAT! Just continue preaching the GOSPEL (not miracles), administering the sacraments, keeping ORDER in the Church (both during the assembly and in terms of the officers of the Church shepherding and disciplining the flock), and keep everything in proper proportions.

Otherwise, the result will be a perversion of the Christian faith, an emphasis on that which attracts but does not save.

The point is: Be careful of the trajectory that the "movement" is taking...

In Christ,
Renoncer

I believe we tend to get to superstitious when it comes to the things of God and the church. Just look at what it has endured over the last 20 years let alone 2000. Jesus said "He" would build "HIS" church and the gates of hell would not.......The major trouble is that while discernment, I believe, is necessary those individuals who seem to speak out the most do not seem to have any relevant move of God in their lives. So we end up micro managing the move of God and help shipwreck the faith of many with a doctrine of doubt. Now that is not to say that what some are saying is not relevant, but the fruit is in the leadership, the souls being saved, the lives being touched and transformed, and honestly? It really is to soon to make any real judgement call. It would be wonderful if just once we saw the Christian community stand together with nothing to gain from this move, and simply pray that he Lord would be Honored and glorified in this, that those present would simply fall in Love with who Jesus is, was and will be.

After watching and listening to a few sermons from Richard Taylor and a few other preachers there, and having watched some of the footage of the services, I hate to sound like a naysayer but I believe HeyDave and pilgrim777 and brother Frank have raised valid concerns.

I don't see any serious heresies being preached there though there are concerns on some questionable statements. But I don't believe it is genuine revival preaching. Some of the themes they preach on will no doubt encourage the saints in some ways, but they will not hear much truth which they need to hear.

I really hate to put it this way but what I believe I discerned was much emotional hype and a watered down gospel being preached with background music catering to the emotions mainly. This whole thing seems typical of many mainline Pentecostal churches; a lot of emphasis on healing and signs and wonders, no preaching on sin righteousness and judgment, no preaching of repentance and holiness(Richard Taylor seems to have a distaste for such kind of preaching). He emphasizes preaching only “good news”. It’s not the whole counsel of God’s Word. It’s a feel good ear tickling message with a lot of joking and emotional appeals.

I'm not against the emphasis pentecostalism places on being on fire for God, I believe that's good. I'm not a cessationist regarding the gifts of the Spirit. And I too would love to see a true move of God, a true revival or awakening. But I've been duped by a lot of false revivals and church experiences within Pentecostalism. I've come to learn that it's okay to question certain things and test them in light of the truth. It's not legalism or phariseeism or quenching the Spirit. If it's genuine it will stand up against scrutiny.

Regarding supposed conversions, I do not believe it’s wise to say automatically that 100s of people were saved simply because they went forward during an altar call, even if they showed tears. I have seen too many times how such hype of supposed conversions causes more damage than good. This is typical of modern day evangelistic crusades or church outreaches. I have known firsthand how most of the people who go forward fall away shortly afterward.

May God grant us all discernment in these last days of great deception within churches.

im looking forward to hear about what you witness brother Andrew wile there ,,,,,,, blessings

"The Lord was worshiped and there was no excess or familiarity, everything was peaceful and in order. I will stay for tomorrow as the Lord leads and share again."

Thank you brother and sister Ceri for first hand reports, not mere speculation, of what is going on in Cwmbran.

Mike

AMRKelly - Thank you! Thank You! Thank you! for your positive feedback. So thrilled you visited and had a blest time. I will share your news with my husband & brother.
I know I felt so upset at people going down the line of likening it to Toronto & Todd Bentley as I know Richard is not of that line and was panicing that his reputation was being unjustly tainted here, as I mentioned in my previous post, the young men you mentioned had a day at our house, relaxing and chatting - so true they are as rough diamonds - but still diamonds! They were brilliant and I was so touched at how they couldn't thank us enough for opening up our home to them and sharing hospitality.

Thank you too PILGRIM for your statement that I do not have to defend the work of the Holy Spirit, I'm afraid I'm my father's daugher on times and get as passionate as he did - it's the Welsh blood! and sometimes I need reminding of that fact! My husband says the same to me too on times.

Hi Ceri,

I'm sorry if you thought I was likening it to Todd Bently or Toronto. What I have seen is not the same as those, However what I said was that encouraging (Christian) folk to come and visit from all around the world to get an impartation is akin to Toronto and Pensecola etc.

I have not visited as amrkelly, but I did watch the live link last night and probably saw more that amrkelly as he only got there at 9.00 for 1 hour. I am not doubting the sincerity of those involved like Richard or the young men mentioned, but just commenting on what I have seen. I don't think you have to visit to make a clear call on what you can clearly see on the live link.

This is my appraisal of what I watched live last night:
The worship which was led by the guest preacher went on for over an hour and was very much repeating contemporary song verses over and over again. He then shared his testimony, which I thought was OK and then gave an invitation for people to pray a prayer of salvation, which resulted in a number coming forward for counselling. He then preached a message which was all focused around having faith for healing, signs and wonders etc. Around 9.30 I switched off, so don't know what happened after this.

I have now watched 4 sermons (including last nights) and what I have seen does not seem to match what is being reported by those claiming a move of God. As Oracio said, I have also seen too many of these supposed outpourings become just a signs and wonders focused event.

Just to make clear, I was born again through a charismatic house church movement over 30 years ago and I know and have experience a lot of similar stuff, although I never accepted any of the hype that has dogged this and the Pentecostal movement over recent years. I still believe the gifts are for today and enjoy many contemporary worship songs. So I am not an anti-Pentecostal, but most Pentecostal and charismatic churches today have become un-biblical in their doctrines and practice.

Even the pastor of this church in Wales is not claiming that a revival is taking place. One thing that you cannot imitate is the true presence of God. Where the Sprit of the Lord is there is liberty. Men and women will be saved, they will be set free, and they will be healed both inwardly and outwardly. The true presence of God cannot be hyped up. So once again, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Mike

Ps If it were old style Pentecostal meetings from 30 years ago that would be a great blessing in and of itself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would rather be in one 100 years ago :)

Amen Greg! Because back then there was such an awesome presence of God, that the pretenders did not have a chance. It was obvious to everyone when there was showmanship and hype displayed.

I have been in some very loud meetings, and some of them were of God and others were not. I have also been in meetings where there was an awesome silence that came over the place for a long period of time. You were afraid to move, for you felt that anything of man would quench the Spirit. I was in an AOG church one time when the presence of God was so very powerful, there was no preaching, but much prayer and worshipping the Lord. I felt like something extraordinary was going to happen, then the pastor said, "it's time to take up the offering." It felt like he had just taken a large hose and quenched any fire that was in the place.

Mike

Thank you for these reports from Wales. They have indeed been very precious to my soul, you have no idea.

It was at this time that Pastor Richard's friend Tommy Tenney visited. Tommy took Richard with him to London to visit a Black church. He invited Richard to share in the meeting, and as he did so the Spirit of God came powerfully upon the people. An amazing time in to presence of God followed, which went beyond what Richard had experienced before. He tried to hand the meeting back to Tommy, but the older man encouraged him to keep going for it. The church experienced a powerful time of encountering the presence of God, which brought many into wholeness and a new experience of freedom.

Afterwards, sitting in a car together, Tommy explained at length to Richard all that he had learned from God concerning the message of the book of Esther – specifically about bringing your enemy Haman into the presence of the king in order to know release and freedom. It was a special time of impartation for Richard in which Tommy encouraged him to press in with Victory Church to more of the presence of God; and it provided Pastor Richard with vital insight to facilitate breakthrough.

Meanwhile, Victory had been going through difficult times. In addition to the loss of impetus in the all-important Encounter meetings, there were a number of serious illnesses and pastoral challenges among the congregation. Richard felt they were under spiritual attack, and felt that they church needed to go on the offensive. The lessons from Tommy concerning the Book of Esther seemed to provide a key. Richard decided to call the church together at the next Encounter meeting to press in together to God to see fresh breakthrough come. They would tackle head on the outbreak of serious illness, and Richard would pray for the sick for healing.

After sharing the Haman message from the Book of Esther, Pastor Richard went to lay hands on an older man called Paul. Paul had been in a car accident ten years before which had left him completely unable to use his legs. He was confined to a wheelchair, unable even to stand. As Pastor Richard laid hands on him, he felt tremendous heat in his hands. He prayed, and noticed a short while, noticed that Paul was moving his legs from side to side. Paul then suddenly stood up for the first time in ten years. He realised God had completely and totally healed him. Amazed and overjoyed, he lifted the wheelchair in which he had been imprisoned for so many years above his head and ran with it halfway round the church before putting it down, and continuing the rest of the way at full speed. It was the moment that the Outpouring effectively began.

http://daibach-welldigger.blogspot.com.es/2013/04/the-cwmbran-outpouring-continues.html#!/2013/04/the-cwmbran-outpouring-continues.html

------------------------

Armkelly just a few questions, don't know if you will get the chance to ask...

1. It was a special time of impartation for Richard in which Tommy encouraged him to press in with Victory Church to more of the presence of God

What was this impartation..? Did he recieve it from Tommy Tenney?

2. The church experienced a powerful time of encountering the presence of God.

I have heard them say at there meetings seeking the presence, how do the seek it?

3. I have heard them mentioning soaking in his precence.

What do they mean by soaking in his precence. How do they practise soaking..

4. I hear them say a lot in the meetings only Jesus

Are they oneness pentecostals? Do they baptize people in Jesus name only..

5. Tommy Tenney

Are they aware that Tommy Tenney is connected with Toronto Airport Vineyard and was a speaker at one of the leadership confrences?

6. Are there ex-members of Two-locks church now attending Victory church as reported?

Edit:- Spelling

I just wanted to clarify, when I said earlier

"Someone somewhere, outside of the God tv/NAR axis has to speak up and confront the lying spirit that is behind decades of charismatic foolishness and deception"

Please note this wasnt directed at the leadership of Victory church Cwmbran. I was not and am not definately accusing them of operating under a lying spirit, or of promoting foolishness and deception. (MAYBE they are, maybe NOT, that still needs to be considered). But I have learned to be skeptical nowadays. I will trust my Bible and time spent in prayer over any "experience" or "manifestation", I no longer feel the need to chase after a new experience or spiritual high at the latest "hotspot". If that works for other people fine (LOL When Mobile kicked off I actually seriously considered travelling out there....)

Lets not forget in the very same passage where Jesus mentioned the narrow path to life and the broad road to destructions, he warns about the false prophets, the wolves in sheeps clothing, inwardly ravening wolves. There HAVE been decades of charismatic foolishness, HTB, Sunderland, Toronto, Lakeland etc the result of which has been a steady and inexorable downgrading and weakening of the full gospel message in favour of experience, encounter and manifestations-an alpha course gospel and a purpose driven church....

Quote:
Ps If it were old style Pentecostal meetings from 30 years ago that would be a great blessing in and of itself.

I would rather be in one 100 years ago :)

Better still, why not 2,000 years ago?

What was it about the "early church" that is not characteristic of today's church? Hmmm, where do we start?

"Better still, why not 2,000 years ago?"

Even better still, let's look to what God has ahead.

"Better still, why not 2,000 years ago?"

Even better still, let's look to what God has ahead.

I was hoping someone would latch onto that thought!

"The glory of the latter house...."

Thanks Amrkelly, I believe your report was honest and well-balanced.

Just felt I should clarify a few things lest I be misunderstood. I do not doubt that the man in the wheelchair was healed by God and I praise God for that! And it seems that that powerful event has played a huge part in igniting the faith of believers in that church and others who are aware of it. This is great! We need more child-like faith in God! He is the same yesterday today and forever! Supposedly there have been other miraculous healings though there is no concrete verification for them.

That said, I cannot help having serious reservations for a number of reasons, especially after knowing that Richard Taylor has close ties with Tommy Tenney and that he received an "impartation" and "revelation" directly from him just prior to this "outpouring". Tenney does indeed have a background in the oneness pentecostal demonination which denies the Trinity. Victory Church does not hold to the oneness doctrine according to their church website. Tenney is known for placing too much emphasis on personal experiences and denegrating God's Word. Sadly to say that is all too often the case in many pentecostal/charismatic churches. Here is an article that goes into some detail on Tenney's beliefs and teachings(Disclaimer: I do not fully agree with the article's seeming denegration of powerful encounters with God; I believe balance is needed; but I believe it raises and deals good with valid concerns on the need for reverence of God's Word)

http://www.equip.org/articles/the-god-chaser/

I believe Amrkelly is spot on regarding the weak preaching of the leaders there. For example, in this sermon Richard Taylor bases his message on the account of Noah and the flood, and puts a sad twist on that account:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsDHYP6LTtw

In that sermon Richard Taylor completely avoids any mention of the severe judgment that took place in that account. Instead, at the start of the sermon he likens the flood rain to the outpouring of the Spirit upon believers. Then, throughout the sermon he goes off on a tangent of past church experiences as a leader.

Sadly, that kind of man-centered preaching seems to be typical of Richard Taylor. I am not saying he is a false teacher. But he is not much different than many preachers you see on tv who preach a soft message mostly.

On another positive note I will say this; out of all the preachers there I liked Kenny Brandie the most:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-TYf2SoMik&list=PLA261D5D569B6EE4F

Kenny Brandie seems to almost get it in terms of preaching on the holiness of God and the sinfulness of man. I say almost because he seems a bit reserved or as if holding back from boldly proclaiming those truths. I can symphathize with him because many Christians and churches are not used to hearing those truths and sometimes get offended by the preaching of them.

I will be praying that Richard Taylor and other leaders there would realize the need to preach other needed truths from God's Word, so that God may be glorified all the more in their midst.

Brother Andrew,

Thank you very much for your report from these meetings in Wales.

I would like to make a few comments about Tommy Tenny. He lives in Louisiana, and I have been to several services where he ministered, and also have read his book "God Chasers". Tommy Tenny was raised in a oneness Pentecostal Church, but no longer holds to that doctrine. Also, he does emphasize very much, seeking after God and entering into the presence of the Lord. I have not found that he taught anything that is not in line with the Word of God.

As far as the laying on of hands and impartation is concerned, this is very scriptural and is one of the basic doctrines of the faith according to Hebrews 6:2. Spiritual gifts are imparted by the laying on of hands. (1 Timothy 4:14), as well as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 8:17).

Mike

AbideinHim wrote:

Tommy Tenny was raised in a oneness Pentecostal Church, but no longer holds to that doctrine.

"Brother, are you absolutely sure about that? Have you read or heard him clearly affirming the Trinity? I ask because it seems that the evidence points to him still holding to oneness theology even though he's not connected with the UPC anymore."

Brother,

Tommy Tenny gets many invitations to Non Denominational and AOG Churches. I can assure you that he would not be invited if he were holding to the Oneness Pentecostal doctrine. I have never heard him teach clearly on the Trinity but have also not heard him say anything that would lead me to believe that he still held to the oneness Pentecostal beliefs.

Tommy Tenny has a heart for revival, pursuing God, hungering and thirsting after God, knowing God in an intimate relationship, and if that is wrong then I am guilty of all of the above.

Mike

HeyDave is complaining about repeating contemporary songs at these meetings.

I have read several accounts where there are 'beings' who do nothing but repeat themselves saying 'Holy Holy Holy Lord God Almighty which was and is and is to come!

That is just one of the repeated anthems we get to know about.

Russell

I realize one must be very vigilant to those who desire to make a mockery of this Most Holy Faith, but why...o why, does it seem to be, that always, men used of God, are subjected to the most intemperate testimony, to the bashing of reputations?"

Thank you very much for your kind and gracious words dear brother.

Sound doctrine is important. We should contend earnestly for the faith that was once delivered to the saints, but the problem comes when our beliefs don't line up on all points, and we begin to call each other "false teachers" or "false prophets".

There is a false unity movement in the church today, and in this movement truth is not valued, but there is a kind of greasy grace in which just about anything goes.

The Lord does put a high priority on unity as seen by the prayer of Jesus in John 17. The enemey as the accuser of the brethren fights unrelentlessly to bring division within the Body of Christ. We might not agree on everything, but if you are born again, washed in the blood, and are walking in the light as He is in the light, then you are my brother.

Mike

Quote: If there was a real revival going on I would be there tomorrow and moving my home there asap.

Amen

Quote: Tenney is known for placing too much emphasis on personal experiences and denegrating God's Word.

God’s goal is to have us know and live by His Word. Satan’s goal has always been to stop the proclamation of God’s Word from the pulpit. What began in the laughing revival continues to be done in various ways today.

Mark 4:14-15 says, “The sower sows the Word. And these are the ones by the wayside where the Word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the Word that was sown in their hearts.” Luke 8:11 states that the seed is the Word of God.

If the preaching of the Word is stopped or distorted no matter how one explains it, its not God.

Just found out that Tommy Tenney is a Word of Faith, Positive Confession, Name it and Claim it teacher. In the below sermon (preached not long ago at Victory Church), at around the 33:30 mark he starts getting into that teaching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_U3skJbhEY

These are a few brief articles that expose that false teaching:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/positive-confession.html

Please saints, don’t fall for this trap. I was caught up in it for a while and it caused much spiritual damage in my walk.

If there is false teaching coming out from this church, the thought naturally comes to mind, “Why would God allow or perform powerful healings in a church that espouses heresy?” Could it be that God is testing us, to see if we will prefer signs and wonders at the expense of His truth? Just thinking and praying. May He grant us ears to hear and eyes to see.

Thank you Brother Frank for posting this report from your cousin.

This is what we need to determine what is truly going on in the meetings, trusted men that are going to the services, and that know what a true move of the Spirit is.

This report is very encouraging that indeed this is a true work of God, not a full blown revival yet, but it very well could lead to one, especially since the impact is being seen in other churches in the region.

Mike

Just found out that Tommy Tenney is a Word of Faith, Positive Confession, Name it and Claim it teacher. In the below sermon (preached not long ago at Victory Church), at around the 33:30 mark he starts getting into that teaching:"

Brother, which heresy hunter website gave you this information? because it is false. That little section on the teaching that you gave us to listen to doesn't make him a "name it claim it teacher." Just look at the man's books, and find one where he is teaching on "positive confession." There is an element of positive confession that is true and that is claiming the promises of God. The words of your mouth are important and "death and life are in the power of the tongue." We don't use words to make God do what is our will, but we agree with God and say what He has already said.

Brother, I can name you most of the teachers that are involved in the positive confession movement, because I was involved in this movement at one time, but Tommy Tenny is not one of them. As I have said in other posts, I have probably been to 5 or 6 of his meetings, and none of the teachings that he did had anyting to do with what you are accusing him of.

Mike

Too bad "positive thinking" and "positive confession" get a bad rap like the word "gay".

"For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:" Pro 23:7

A person is literally what he thinks and believes. His personality is the sum total of his thoughts. We are today what our thoughts, beliefs and convictions have made us. Many times we are not defeated by our circumstances but by our attitude towards our circumstances. How we approach them and what we think of them is of vital importance in overcoming them. I suppose that is why I love Richard and Sabina Wurmbrand's testimonies along with Corrie Ten Boom and other saints that have overcome difficulties.

There is an inseparable relationship between what we think and what we say. So, "positive thinking" and "positive confession" are very important. Satan works through the mind and much of our sickness, trouble and failure begins in the mind and results from listening to lying, deceiving spirits from the Enemy.

Positive confession does not mean "I can walk just fine" when I have a compound fracture of my leg.

I would like to know what kind of negative thinking is good for us.

Now, I don't know Tommy Tenney and this is not about him. I only wanted to comment on "positive thinking" and "confession" which in my opinion has gotten a bad rap.

I will now return your channel to the regularly scheduled program.

Pilgrim

Brother, which heresy hunter website gave you this information? because it is false. That little section on the teaching that you gave us to listen to doesn't make him a "name it claim it teacher." Just look at the man's books, and find one where he is teaching on "positive confession." There is an element of positive confession that is true and that is claiming the promises of God. The words of your mouth are important and "death and life are in the power of the tongue." We don't use words to make God do what is our will, but we agree with God and say what He has already said.

Brother, I can name you most of the teachers that are involved in the positive confession movement, because I was involved in this movement at one time, but Tommy Tenny is not one of them. As I have said in other posts, I have probably been to 5 or 6 of his meetings, and none of the teachings that he did had anyting to do with what you are accusing him of.

Mike

Are we really willing to accept this Word of Faith Prosperity gospel here? Are we that gullible?

It is both interesting and sad how those who love the truth and are careful about falling into deception are labeled "heresy hunters" and "religious". I guess it's part of the sign of the times of apostasy we are living in. May God help us.

pilgrim, did you watch that video clip before posting about positive confession and Tommy Tenney? I ask because if you did watch it, I don't see how you could have missed this guy's clear false teaching and then seemingly come in his defense.

Hi Oracio,

No, I did not watch it. My post was merely on the scriptural definition of having a positive rather than negative attitude. Please post the link again, because I have looked back and seen many. Post the specific one that you want me to look at and I will give you my impressions of it.

Thank you,
Pilgrim

Oracio,

How many of the services where these meetings are taking place in Wales have you viewed? This is not about Tommy Tenney, so why divert the attention onto him? If you can find where they are teaching a false prosperity message in these meetings then please let me know.

I appreciate the fact that you are searching after the truth, but brother the devil is not in the business of saving people. He is not setting drug addicts free, and he is not healing people, and why don't we praise and thank the Lord where we see the Holy Spirit moving. From what I have seen and heard of the testimonies of those that have been in these meetings is that the pastor is real, there are sinners going to the meetings, and young converts, so give them some slack. I believe that this young pastor has a heart for God and just as he was delivered from drugs, he wants to see others set free, and they are getting set free and coming to Jesus.

Mike

"For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:" Pro 23:7

A person is literally what he thinks and believes. His personality is the sum total of his thoughts. We are today what our thoughts, beliefs and convictions have made us.
------------------------------------------------------------

The verse quoted, is not saying that it is a good thing. On the contrary, the following verse says :

"Eat and drink saith he to thee, but his heart is not with thee".

Men believe all sorts of untrue things about themselves. Peadophiles think that they are giving children something that others deny them - sexual pleasure. They think they are the good guys.

Its another verse taken out of context to back up `Name It And Claim It doctrine` as people actually are saying they can walk fine when they have a compound fracture of the leg.

You are actually proving my point, krautfrau.

Whether men believe God's word or Satan's word, they are what they think. If they believe a lie or the truth, the result is the same but the fruit is different.

Php_4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

The wickedness of man was great because the thoughts of his heart were evil.
Gen_6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Hi Oracio,

No, I did not watch it. My post was merely on the scriptural definition of having a positive rather than negative attitude. Please post the link again, because I have looked back and seen many. Post the specific one that you want me to look at and I will give you my impressions of it.

Thank you,
Pilgrim

Okay pilgrim, I'll post the whole post here again:

Just found out that Tommy Tenney is a Word of Faith, Positive Confession, Name it and Claim it teacher. In the below sermon (preached not long ago at Victory Church), at around the 33:30 mark he starts getting into that teaching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_U3skJbhEY

These are a few brief articles that expose that false teaching:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/positive-confession.html

Please saints, don’t fall for this trap. I was caught up in it for a while and it caused much spiritual damage in my walk.

If there is false teaching coming out from this church, the thought naturally comes to mind, “Why would God allow or perform powerful healings in a church that espouses heresy?” Could it be that God is testing us, to see if we will prefer signs and wonders at the expense of His truth? Just thinking and praying. May He grant us ears to hear and eyes to see

The reason I came at you like that brother is because I really felt the Lord was leading me to expose Tommy Tenney and this whole church for what it is. I know what it's like to be caught up in the word of faith and my heart goes out to others who are caught up in it.

Oracio,

How many of the services where these meetings are taking place in Wales have you viewed? This is not about Tommy Tenney, so why divert the attention onto him? If you can find where they are teaching a false prosperity message in these meetings then please let me know.

I appreciate the fact that you are searching after the truth, but brother the devil is not in the business of saving people. He is not setting drug addicts free, and he is not healing people, and why don't we praise and thank the Lord where we see the Holy Spirit moving. From what I have seen and heard of the testimonies of those that have been in these meetings is that the pastor is real, there are sinners going to the meetings, and young converts, so give them some slack. I believe that this young pastor has a heart for God and just as he was delivered from drugs, he wants to see others set free, and they are getting set free and coming to Jesus.

Mike

Mike, in answer to your question, I've watched maybe around three or four of their services. I believe it's enough for me to see that this is not really what some make it out to be, but rather much of it is a show with watered down preaching.

Regarding the pastor/s coming out from a life of crime and drugs, that really is irrelevant. Remember, Todd Bently, with all his tatoos, is supposedly a former hell's angels gang member.

As far as diverting the attention to Tenney, I believe it is very relevant, since Richard Taylor gives Tenney much of a platform at the church. Obviously Taylor has no problem with Tenney's word of faith prosperity message. Again, supposedly Taylor got this impartation and revelation from Tenney. It's all connected brother.

As far as Richard himself, he is into having people "slain in the spirit" and preaches a watered down gospel and shows a dislike for the preaching of repentance and holiness. Though it's not much, it's enough for me to want nothing to do with this church. Maybe my standards are too high, but I'm too tired of modern day man-centered churchianity.

Regarding souls being saved, again, there is no evidence souls are really being saved other than people coming forward after a watered down message and emotional appeal. You can see this type of thing at many modern day crusades, and it is not what they make it out to be in terms of people really getting saved. There are multitudes of false conversions that have taken place due to watered down messages and appeals at these kinds of events. I used to fall for the hype when I used to see many coming forward, but then I realized most of those people going forward were not really converted. They were, as Leonard Ravenhill used to say, stillborn. It is tragic.

Mike, we may have to agree to disagree brother. I still have high regard and respect for you as a brother in Christ. God bless you in your desire and search for intimacy with Him.

I'll end this post with this scripture:

"29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. 32 So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified."-Acts 20:29-32

Seems like Lou Engle has been at Victory Church, Wales.

Quote: We just heard that Lou Engle and a team of intercessors from California will be in Cwmbran this week from the 20 - 24th..

Ok, Oracio,

I listened to the youtube video of Tommy Tenney.

I really don't see where Ichabod was "in the ministry", by the way.

Well, probably most importantly, I was not "arrested by the Spirit of God" as I was listening to him. On the contrary, came away with an uneasy feeling in my spirit.

But, we all have our biases which makes it even more important to hear the Holy Spirit on a matter.

I am very reluctant to exposit a detailed analysis of his message at this time, so I will only say that that type of preaching and how he uses the Scriptures are not really my "cup of tea". But there was something else other than his style of preaching. I really cannot put into words right now.

I did not look at the other videos, because when I listen to someone "new" for the first time, I like to get my first impressions from the Holy Spirit.

It would probably be helpful to listen to him a little more to get a clearer picture of what he is all about. If I have time, I may listen to a few more messages.

I wish what he said left me with the feeling that I can't wait to hear more, but that didn't happen.

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting them again.

Pilgrim

"It appears a credible move of God is taking place in south Wakes. There have been posts from brothers who have travelled there and attest to tbis. Is the movement perfect? Of course not. There are imperfect vessels involved. But where the Holy Spirit is involved in the salvation and deliverance of souls let us praise God. Where there are things that need to be strengthened and deepened. Let us pray God will do that.

One thing I would pray is man keep his hands off what the Spirit is doing in Cwmbran. That would include the religionists and the celebrities."

Amen brother! That is exactly the way that I see it, and aren't we glad that God does not disqualify us because of our imperfections, but He waits patiently for us to mature, and so it is with a move of God. God is not moved by the mess, He is out to change hearts, and He will use an imperfect vessel who is allowing the Lord to mold him into a vessel of honor.

Mike

It is so true that if you are patient and let time go by, you will eventually see the fruit of a movement. But, don't forget that even if the fruit is bad, the Lord may have touched a couple of people in a very special way who go on to impact the Kingdom of God in memorable ways.

That is why Matthew 13 is so true. Don't try to separate the wheat from the tares. We will damage some wheat if we try to do what only God is able to do.

David would rather run away than overturn the reign of Saul and he was being led of the Lord to do that.

"Seems like Lou Engle has been at Victory Church, Wales.

Quote: We just heard that Lou Engle and a team of intercessors from California will be in Cwmbran this week from the 20 - 24th.."

It doesnt surprise me in the least, I expect next up to gatecrash will be Julie, or Cindy and Dutch?? Or Ken and Lois??

A snippet from what I posted on 19-5-13

"....But I would be very concerned if those Wagnerian ministers get in there, with all the talk about submission to NAR apostleship/god tv oversight, cities of refuge, portals, gateways etc etc, then quench the work of God's spirit, and "realign" it with the apostate church instead. You know the scenario, NAR apostles and prophetesses, ministers who operate under a lying spirit, who set it up as an elitist money earning Christ denying family dynasty business....."

There will certainly be perceived a significant and reinvigorating link between Lou, his 40 day fast, and the "Cwmbran outpouring"....because in the false prophetic/NAR parallel universe community, the "powerful ones" see "spectacular results" it boosts their credibility. Personally, I'd be kinda perplexed as to why an outpouring didnt start in California, if that was where they were while fasting and what they were praying about, and apparently, started 6 or 7 thousand miles away in Wales instead?? But thats just me....!

Brother Oracio,

I for one appreciate what you have posted regarding Tommy Tenny. I was aware that he was a major influence on the Pastor of Victory church (their website tells us this), but I did not know much about him or his teaching.

For some to say that the connection to Tommy Tenny is not important, is to ignore what the Pastor himself says on his website about him being his 'mentor'. It is clear that the main emphasis of the messages are very much in line with Tommy Tenny's 'God Chasers' teaching. The message by Pastor Richard about Esther and the 'Favour of the King' is a direct copy of Tommy's message. Not that there is anything wrong with repeating someone else's message, but it shows us the strong connection.

Regarding Lou Engles, this is another worrying connection and it's no good saying ' they just happened to show up and are not taken notice of', because their presence there is flagged up on the church website and it also makes a comment about them having fasted for 40 days prior to the 'outpouring'. It is clear that the church considers Lou Engle and his team as a significant connection to this outpouring, otherwise why mention it on their website so clearly.

As I said previously, I think it is possible that God will meet with some folk who are here, but this I believe is in spite of what is going on, not because of it.

I know we will be accused of being judgmental or grieving the spirit of revival, but hey, that's nothing new! Just surprised it is happening on SI. There is a lot of confusion being posted here. In these days I for one will check everything out and be very careful what I accept. Others can just go with the flow if they want, but beware not everything is as it seems on the surface.

Many of the reports of folk who visited are based on 'feelings' that it is of God. I can't take your feelings as a basis for accepting this. For what it's worth my 'feeling' based on what I've seen and heard on-line is that this may not be a spontaneous event, but to some extent planned and prepared for. But this is just my feeling and you don't have to accept that. Time will tell though.

I don't like to write these things as I really would have liked this to have been a genuine outpouring of God.

Brother Heydave, thanks for your encouragement. I was starting to feel a bit ostracized and discouraged here.

I can sort of sympathize with some brethren who fall prey to these kinds of things because I've been there myself. During that time if you even started to question certain things you were warned, "Touch NOT God's anointed or else." And of course, who in their right mind would want to speak against a person or work that God is really behind.

Thankfully, God used men like Hank Haanagraph and John MacArthur to open my eyes to the serious deception within Charismania. Granted, I may not agree with MacArthur and Hank on many secondary theological subjects, but I really appreciate their faithful and bold exposure of the serious error in the counterfeit revivals of this day and age.

Like you stated so well, much of the defense for this kind of thing is based on feelings and not truth.

In the end, I do realize I need to be careful not to be quick to condemn any sincere believers who fall prey to these kinds of influences. I guess a certain level of patience is a virtue in this type of situation.

Why didn’t you say that he was there earlier?

Quote: Lou Engle held a prayer and fast from 1st March through to the 9th April 2013. The express aim of this fast and prayer was in hope of revival. The outpouring in Wales stared on the 10th April the day after this fast ended.

Just a coincidence…….No

Quote: I was told that the intercession had been curbed in the main hall because of concerns over who might be entering into prayer….

Strange because Lou Engle took an intercession team with him………..was all intersession stopped so that they were the only ones praying?

We have to remember that God does not have relationships with movements, or groups, or denominations, He has relationships with individuals and He is adding "living stones" continuously to His House (the Body of Christ). He finds these "lively stones" everywhere. For those with ears to hear, He is calling them out of the world and unto Himself.

QUOTE
" that music - God help anyone elderly or sick like me who cannot take so much noise. Meetings should be accessible to anyone. They are certainly not to anyone with neurological problems and sensitive to so much noise."

Bear, noise like this is really irritating to some - it drives some people about crazy. It is akin to taking your fingernails across a blackboard. Maybe if you are hard of hearing you cannot hear it. But God created sound and nothing in his creation mimics these sounds that one hears produced by some "Christians". Sound should be pleasant - just go outside and listen to nature - the birds, the animals, water - beautiful! Can man not take lessons from them? These creatures make the sound God made them to do.

I do not know if this revival is from God but I do know if the sounds produced are hard on the physical body that some will not be attracted but will be repulsed by it.

God bless.

I was at a church today in my city - one of the pastors that was there in the welsh outpouring has moved here. So we had a good discussion about different things.

One of the things I found out was that the senior pastor Richard Taylor of this welsh outpouring fell into deep and moral sin...

Such a shame - that God's name that was held up so high is once again trashed.

Help us Jesus - to be a holy people.

edit:- to add welsh outpouring so there was no confusion about what i was writing about.

This is Alex Jonah of the Jonah Report blog's first post. It refers to how the Lord used Victory Church's recovery program to set him free of a lifestyle of alcohol, drugs, casual sex and petty crimes. I too am grieved by what has happened with the pastor who has fallen but fear that we can get distracted from the work the Lord done among them. God is the one who saves.

I post this for your consideration.

http://thejonahreport.wordpress.com/2014/06/14/jesus-delivered-me-from-alcohol-addiction-depression-and-crime-a-prodigal-son-returns/

Back in the mid-80's I was involved with a church in a small Wisconsin town that revolved around the powerful teaching of a young Lutheran pastor who had been shown the door by his denomination when he was baptized in the Spirit. In a very short time the church exploded to several hundred, an amazing number in this very small town.

Didn't last. Same old story, the man of God led away through lusts whose power he had severely underestimated.

But in it all, many came to Christ, many were filled with the Spirit, many continue to this day. I have friends in Christ who I would otherwise never known. The battle for the kingdom goes on and on.

Paul makes that heartfelt statement to the Corinthians, "I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest after preaching to others I might be disqualified."

Such a shame, to lead others to salvation and the good things of God- then like a dog returning to vomit seek fleshly fulfillment in the traps of the world.

But even Paul knew how real that all was, and took pains to avoid it.

Distracted - that an understatement.

I would say he had never allowed the Holy Spirit in to do deal with that area of his life - I hope he allows the Spirit to work from here on and I hope none of the people recovering from all there different ailments don't fall away through discouragement.