Life or death:but not both!

Frank wrote: When the time comes, will you choose the world and all it's comforts and security, or will you take your place with the minority, hated and rejected by the world, living in a place without walls, surrounded by your enemies on every side. It's no mean choice brothers and sisters, it's life or death. Die to this world and live eternally, or live for this world and die eternally. One or the other, but not both.

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Thank you for sharing this with us here. Very convicting and thought provoking. As I read through the last paragraph I found myself praying once more that as those days approach, as those storm clouds gather my actions will give credit to the many words I have spoken and shared over the years and my response will be to choose JESUS!! There are moments in my weakness when I fear that I will cower in the corner and choose the comfort of this world but then I think about your last post, about looking up to the cross and I am renewed! HE will strengthen me, HE will carry me. Yes the times will grow ugly and men who once proclaimed to love the LORD will be leading the charge to nail you to the cross but we know that in that time JESUS will be there with us. We know this is not our home and never was. Any comfort this world can offer will pass away, its all illusion, reality is eternity with HIM for those who seek to live with their eyes on the KING. Now is the time to keep focused on what truly matters, JESUS!

Thank you again for sharing, so encouraging and convicting because one knows that trails must come but the hope and comfort of knowing we do not face them alone is priceless!!

God bless
maryjane

Praise God, He is still in charge of eternity and even when I give up He will remain faithful, making me faithful. "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me". All is still in His hands, even unto what I will say at a time that I am unable to utter a word.

Luke 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

How are we capable of this? Luke 12:7-8 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Amen, and even He is come in my flesh, for it is He that is in me, He is the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip

How can we confess Him among men? Praise God by Him that has birthed Him in His own children, "offspring" and as He is that is in the World, so are we, in His strength, not mine.

By His love, now and forever.

1 John 4:16-17 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Here is a very strong exortation, That I sometimes have pondered, written by THIELEMAN J. van BRAGHT in preface of the Martyrs Mirror:

OF THE GREATER DANGER THERE IS AT THIS TIME, THAN IN THE BLOODY AND DISTRESSING TIMES OF THE MARTYRS*
These are sad times, in which we live; nay, truly, there is more danger now than in the time of our fathers, who suffered death for the testimony of the Lord. Few will believe this, because the great majority look to that which is external and corporeal, and in this respect it is now better, quieter and more comfortable; few only look to that which is internal and pertains to the soul, and on which everything depends,"for what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matt. 16:26.

These times are certainly more dangerous; for then Satan came openly, through his servants, even at noon-day, as a roaring lion, so that he could be known, and it now and then was possible to hide from him; besides, his chief design then was to destroy the body: but now he comes as in the night, or in the twilight, in a strange but yet pleasing form, and, in a two-fold way, lies in wait to destroy the soul; partly, to trample under foot, and annihilate entirely, if this were possible, the only saving Christian faith-- partly to destroy the true separated Christian life which is the outgrowth of faith. Ps. 9l:5, 6.

He reveals himself on the one hand as an angel of light, II Cor. 11:14, 15, as a kind, pleasant, yea, even divine messenger, with humble countenance, downcast eyes, plain garb, and living in seclusion from the throng of the worldly-minded, even as the holiest people, yea, the martyrs of God, formerly did. His words are modest, trembling and full of contrition-seemingly coming from deep meditation, inward fear and apprehension, lest he might speak amiss or untruthfully. Meanwhile, and before one is aware of it, he seizes hold and tears like a wolf in sheep's clothing, robbing the innocent lambs of Christ of their precious faith, which, he pretends to be of small importance, but without which faith it is impossible to please God, Heb. 11:6, nay, without which we, according to the words of Christ shall be condemned, Mark 16: 16; for (says Paul), whatsoever is not of faith is sin, Rom. 14:23.

It grieves us to the heart that we must live to see these times, and therefore speak in this wise. O Lord, strengthen our faith! help Thy weak, trusting lambs, that they may not be led into error, nor moved from the foundations of the most holy faith.

On the other hand, through his instigation, the world now reveals itself very beautiful and glori-

* When Israel under Pharaoh, in Egypt, had to burn brick, and to perform other hard labor, for the king, they remembered God, yea, cried unto the Almighty, so that God was moved to compassion Ex. chap. 1, 2, 3, etc.; but when God had delivered them, anti brought them into a goodly land where it went well with them according to the body, they forsook the Lord, and became wanton. Dent. 32:15. This difference is found to exist also between the times of oppression and the times of freedom.
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ous, more than at any preceding time, in a threefold pleasing form-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life.* Almost all men run after her, to worship her as a queen supreme; but all are deceived thereby; yea, many who have drunk of the poisoned wine of her lusts from the golden cup of her iniquities and deceptions, die a spiritual death.

As the first design is aimed at the faith, so this is directed against the true Christian life. Here lies great danger. Who shall escape these snares? He that would at no time be taken unawares by it, must indeed be cautious and watchful. But our very flesh seems prone to it. Here must be fasting, watching, praying, and calling upon God for help, otherwise there is no escape.

Many of the ancients who supposed that they had been circumspect and observed their duty, were deceived hereby-; some were lulled into a careless sleep, so that they paid no heed to themselves or to their vocation; others were brought to despair of the divine truth; others were drawn away totally from God; some died a spiritual death; others died both spiritually and bodily; and some have plunged themselves helter-skelter into the abyss of the disfavor of God, to be punished by Him soul and body and forever.

These things which we tell you are no riddles or blind speeches, for we speak the truth, or the Word of God must be false; but as the Word of God cannot lie, what we have said is certain and infallible since God in His Word bears witness of it, yea, declares it emphatically and abundantly. Other histories which make mention of this, we pass by in silence and dismiss them altogether, because we do not hold them in equal estimation with the holy Scriptures. It was the world and its lusts that of old caused all the great calamities of which we have spoken; and not only this, but it has also caused thousands who live in various cities, countries, kingdoms, empires, yea, on the face of the whole earth, to mourn, weep and wail, on account of their natural misery as well as on account of their experiencing the wrath of God in their souls because of the magnitude and enormity of the sins perpetrated by them.

It certainly was through worldly lusts that the old world perished; that Sodom, Gomorrah, Zeboim, and Admah were consumed, overthrown and totally destroyed by fire from Heaven; that in forty years, through serpents, fire, and other plagues, the wanton and lustful people of Israel perished to the number of over six hundred thousand in the wilderness; and that the mighty mari

*" John, the friend of Christ, has presented the deceptive, beautiful appearance of this world in its threefold view of the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. I John 2:16. Solomon portrayed the same as a harlot or wanton woman, who allures young men unto her; who is loud and stubborn, and whose feet abide not in her house; but whither those who follow her are led, as an ox to the slaughter, to certain destruction, nay, to death and hell. Prov. 7.
* The following and other misfortunes which were caused by worldly and carnal lusts cannot be numbered. O, that Solomon, the wisest among the children of men, might have known, conquered, and taken care of himself in this respect. ime cities, Zidon and Tyrus, whose ships were trimmed with embroidered, silken sails from Egypt; whose rowers sat upon benches of ivory; where incalculable riches were bought and sold and, from carnal incentives, almost inconceivable arts practiced were reduced to a heap of stones and so leveled to the ground, that the fishermen stretch out their nets to dry on the rocks upon which these cities stood. Gen. 7; Matt. 24:37, 38; Luke 17:26, 27; II Peter 2:5.-Gen. 19:24, 25; Isa. 13:19; Jer. 50:40; Hos. 11:8; Amos 4:11; Luke 17:28, 29; I I Pet. 2:6; Jude 7.-Compare Num. 1:2, 3, 46 with Num. 14:22, 23. Also Num. 11:1 and 16:31-35; 21:6; Jude 5.-Isa. 23:4, 5; Ezek. 27:26-28; 28, the whole chapter.
I will not now speak of Jerusalem, Chorazin, Bethsaida; Capernaum, and other mighty licentious and luxurious cities, which, with all their inhabitants who had in this respect sinned against God, have borne His-wrath, and felt, to their destruction, the plagues of His afflicting hand; for this would consume too much time.* O awful judgments of God! O pernicious worldly-mindedness 1 O corroding and cankering luxury, that draggest after thee such a train of unspeakable miseries! Help, Lord, that our soul be delivered from all these dangers.

But what danger would there be, if none but the open enemies of God and His holy truth were guilty in this matter? What harm could be done, if they alone, and no others, would arouse and call down upon themselves the wrath of God? For then every pious and serious soul would beware of their example as of a savage beast, venomous serpent, or deadly basilisk. But now such is the state of things that many commoners and such as are not total strangers to religion or the worship of God; who, as they say, would fain be saved; and who, therefore, though they are not truly enlightened, glorify and praise God and His Word with their mouth, show nevertheless (to the seduction of the simple) that the world is their dear friend, yea lies nearest to their heart, since most of their works are directed to its service, that they may thereby partake of its glittering but deceptive reward.

Hence arises that shameful and vast commerce which extends far beyond the sea into other parts of the world, Ezek. 27, but which notwithstanding cannot satisfy those who love it, but, on. the contrary, brings great danger, that that which has already been gotten, may be lost, others defrauded, and they themselves, both in soul and body, stripped and robbed of their possessions.

Numerous large, expensive and ornamented houses, countryseats of splendid architecture and provided with towers, parks magnificent as a paradise, and other embellished pleasure-grounds, which are seen on every hand indicate this in no small degree. Dan. 4:29, 30.

* See Josephus on the Jewish wars; also Egesippus, Eusebius, and Pamphilius.

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The wearing of clothes from foreign countries, whether of foreign materials, uncommon colors or of strange fashions as obtain in the course of time according to the custom of the openly worldly-minded (which are as changeable as the moon), and which custom is followed by many humble and seemingly plain people, confirms greatly what we have before said. Gen. 35:2; Zeph. 1:8; Isa. 3:16-24.

The giving and attending great dinners, lavish banquets and wedding-feasts (though one may never be found in taverns or tippling-houses), where everything is in profusion, and where the beneficent gifts of the Lord which should not be used otherwise than with great thankfulness, and of which a portion naturally belongs to the poor, are squandered and consumed without the least necessity, even by those who are considered sober and temperate, is an incontrovertible evidence of a sensual and wanton heart; and proves also that those who have much to do with these things, cannot be exculpated from living after the flesh; for which carnal life certainly has no promise of salvation, but on the contrary, many severe threatenings of the wrath and displeasure of God, nay, of eternal damnation, are recorded in the blessed leaves of the Word of God, which contains nothing but the truth. Esth. 1:3-8; Dan. 5:1-3; Luke 12:19, 20; 16:19.

O how different is this from the life of a true Christian, who has forsaken himself and his lusts. How great the step that is between their walk and that of the holy martyrs, who delivered up, not only their carnal desires, but also their bodies and lives, unto death for the Lord's sake! But how great a difference will also be between the two classes afterwards I When the former, having had their good things in this life, shall be shut out from the true, heavenly riches, but the latter, because they have love to God, renounced and abandoned their possessions, which might have led them into sin, be admitted to the true enjoyment of the heavenly riches and pleasures, and that for ever and ever I Mal. 3:18.

Here shall obtain what is recorded concerning the end of the luxurious rich man and that of poor Lazarus: that the rich man, when he saw Lazarus in Abraham's bosom, while lie himself was in hell, received this answer to his doleful lamentations, "Son, remember, that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." Luke 16:25. Appropriate is here also Wis. 5:1, 2.

Nevertheless, these and similar evil examples are constantly presented to our eyes, and they are the more pernicious and dangerous for the reason that some worldly-minded people pronounce them to be non-essential, unimportant for either good or evil, and therefore, allowable; while it is the same with them as with the fruit from the tree of knowledge, which stood in the midst of Paradise, and was pleasant to the eyes, but deadly in the use, for whoever ate of it, had to die, Gen. 2:17; or with the apples which grow in the land of Sodom, on the border of the dead sea; which possess a beautiful red appearance, but contain, as some have written, only dust and ashes, and are inedible, nay, even deleterious to health. Bijb. Naemb. edition 1632, fol. 881, Col. 2, concerning the name Sodom, ex Philippo Melanchthone. Also Bernh. Bredenb. in Tract, super Siddim. Also H. Buntung, Itinerarium sacrw scripturoe, edition 1642, lib. r, pag. 62, col. 2, etc.

O that Satan would show himself, as he really is, and that the world, too, might come forth without disguise or mask; then certainly no one possessing reason would allow himself to be deceived by them. For in Satan nothing would be seen but deadly snares, traps and murdering daggers for the soul, poisoned arrows wherewith to destroy everything good in man, through unbelief, apostasy from God, impenitent obduracy, and despair; which are followed by a train made up o~ the fears of hell and horrors of damnation. In the world men would perceive nothing but vanity, mingled with much vexation, sorrow, grief and misery, and this in such abundance, that if as many tears could be wept over it, as there is water in all the sea and all the rivers, yet the weight of the true sorrow that springs from them it could not be adequately expressed, for they draw after them not only temporal but also everlasting miseries.

But, O how lamentable! all this is hid under a beautiful appearance. Satan appears to be a prince or king, and the world a noble princess or queen. The servants and servantmaids who follow them as pages and maids of honor, appear as cavaliers and ladies, reveling in joy and delight; though, as regards the soul, they are poor and deformed; yea, meaner than beggars, and without the true joy which delights the upright soul in God.*

There is, therefore, great danger of being deceived. O, ye upright children of God, be on your guard.** Let your simplicity be coupled with prudence. Your faith as well as your life are the objects aimed at. If Satan gain the mastery over you, your precious faith which has been commended to your keeping as dearly as your soul, is ruined. If ye are overcome by the world, it will soon put an end to your Christian and virtuous life, without which latter the best of faith is of no avail. Care, therefore, my dear friends, equally well for both, for the one is as important as the other. Faith

*" It is a very lamentable fact that the things fraught with danger are not as they appear, and appear not as they really are. Is not the fish caught with a bait, in which is concealed the hook? Are not the birds ensnared in the net, in which berries or grains of corn are scattered for them to eat? Certainly. Is it to be wondered then, that blind, carnal and worldly-minded men are deceived and led into perdition by the wiles of Satan and the alluring lusts of a deceitful world?
* Meanwhile the prudent knight and valiant champion of Christ must be on his guard and constantly in arms, that he may neither by the one nor by the other be diverted from his noble watch over his soul, which has been entrusted to him, and thus be led away and cast, either in soul or body, or according to both, into the direful abyss of perdition.
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without the corresponding life, or the life without the faith, can, will, and may not avail before God. They are like two witnesses, who must agree, and of whom the one cannot stand or be received without the other.

Knowing, then, that we must care for both, there remains nothing for us but to do it, however, this work must certainly not only be begun, but also finished, according to the example of the steadfast martyrs of God; with which finishing, whether it be brought about in a natural or a violent manner, according as liberty or persecution brings about we must comfort ourselves, since it is certain that the crown is not to be found in the beginning or in the middle, but at the end.*

But as necessary as it is to finish well, so necessary it is also to begin well, and, having begun, to go on well; for without a good beginning and a good progress it is impossible to attain to a good end.

We speak to you, then, most beloved in the Lord, who have begun with us; received the same faith with us; and with us as a token of this have been baptized.

Surely, we have made a vow to the Lord, which we cannot recall, as David sings, "Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High." Ps. 50:14.

We have, through faith, received Christ, the Son of God, as our Prophet, Priest, King, Shepherd, Friend, and Bridegroom; and in this we must go on and grow stronger. This, Paul teaches us, saving, "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught," etc. Col. 2:6, 7. Hereby we have come from the darkness of ignorance to the true light of knowledge; which we are commanded to keep in perpetual remembrance. In this direction tend the words, "But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;" etc. Heb. 10

32. In short, "Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing." Phil. 3:16."Building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 20, 21."Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Verses 24 and 25. Isa. 40:30, 31; Phil. 4:13.

We would now commend you, beloved brethren and sisters, to the Lord and to the word of ,His grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. Our work which has been done for your benefit, is now finished in this respect; that you

*" O that this would be considered, as it should! may make good use of it, is our friendly desire Remember us always in your prayers, until we de part this life; Phil. 1:23, that God may be gracious unto us now and in eternity. We hope, on our part, to do the same for you. O that God would grant, that we all, without one missing, might behold one another, face to face, in the kingdom of God! I Cor. 13:12.
Meantime we rejoice in the salvation of the Lord; for it sometimes seems to us, as if Heaven had come down upon earth; or that we were ascending from earth to heaven. II Cor. 12:1-12 etc; or that we, who are still among men, held communion with God and His holy angels; or that eternal heavenly joy and glory were offered to us; nay, that we had a foretaste of those thing which mortal eye hath never seen, nor ear heard, nor heart experienced, in this life.*

We walk no longer upon earth. with our thoughts; nevertheless, we are still encompassed by a cloud of earth, a body of clay, a heavy load of the soul. O, that we were free from it, and that our soul, liberated from this load, might return to God in heaven, her true origin! like a freed dove which has been confined in a strange place, returns to her nest and abode. But we must wait for this until the time which God has appointed, comes.

Let us be patient together, then, most beloved in the Lord, till the day come, which, if we remain faithful unto the end, will assuredly bring us that which we here wait for in hope. Then the tears, which we, sighing and longing for the highest salvation of God, have wept here, shall surely be wiped away from our eyes; then shall we no longer see through a glass, darkly, but face to face; then shall the heavenly be shown us no longer in thought or in spirit, but it shall be given us, and we be made participants of it, by experience alone, in truth and in deed. O great and precious subject! we can go no further: our reason cannot comprehend it; our earthly tongue cannot express it!

Yours very affectionally in the Lord,
TH. J. VAN BRAGHT.

Dort, July the 25th, 1659.

http://homecomers.org/mirror/martyrs001.htm#6

I cannot choose Christ, for He has chosen me first.

I did not choose satan to be my father, but he was.

Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Joh 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

He that lifted up his foot against the Lord could do nothing more or less, for it was written.

In Christ: Phillip

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Quote: """ For those that were comfortable and thought they were the elect and had nothing to worry about."""

Is this what we are told to see and look forward to?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (((((Wherefore comfort one another with these words.)))))

What are we to believe?

Ephesians 1:19-23 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Not my power but "His mighty power". By His Faith through Grace. Who has quickened us that we might believe on Jesus Christ through His Faith and Grace?

Ephesians 2:5-10 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I could work for my salvation the rest of my life and still would end up in Hell.

This is the only way I can walk, which is His workmanship in me by He that is birthed in me. Christ in you the hope of glory. By His life and work in me.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In Him and He in me is the only walk I have that means anything in the Kingdom.

Ephesians 2:17-22 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

I am a Holy Temple, ((fitly framed)) fitly framed together with Him who groweth me and builds me together with Him for an hapitation of God through the Spirit.

I am not comfortable but I am the elect and rest in Him, completely and totally without shrinking or regret.

Ephesians 3:17-21 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

It is all of Him and none of me. I must decrease by His strength that He might increase. By His strength and His workmanship in me I will walk worthy of His Love, His Cross, His blood and His promise.

This is the mystery:

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

He is my labour in which I walk striving according to His working which worketh in me mightily.

God's hope of glory and mine, In Christ:

Phillip

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Sorry but my ticket has been punched and is punched every day I awake and will be punched on resurrection day.

The Spirit Christ resides in me and my abiding is sure because of His works which work in me mightily.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent

Jesus did nothing unless the Father told Him so. John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

So also as Jesus is, so are we in this world.
John 5:19-22 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

So also, I can do nothing of myself, only what I see Jesus do, lead by the Holy Spirit to reveal the Work of Christ that I might do the works quickened in me.

This is our greatest work: Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Joh 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

John 6:37-40 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Christ has sanctified Himself that He also may sanctify those the Father has given, "wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption." This is the sanctified Life I live by the Christ that lives in me, not by my works but by His works that work in me mightily.

John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

This is my meat also, to fill up that which is left behind of Christ.

Colossians 1:24-26 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Again the mystery that cannot be aborted, because of the incorruptible Seed of the Father born again in me.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

By the Fathers Love Child being birthed in me; "Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily."

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Phillip: Elect by the Christ that liveth in me.

Thank you armkelly and christinyou for making God's salvation plain, by refuting the erroneous ideology of others in this thread.

You see, "If error is harmless,then truth is useless."

We must,"take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ."

The very subject of this post should speak for itself!

If you're Christ's you have eternal life,and there can be no second death for you. We who are Christ's have passed from death to life,for He is our life.

"If God be for us who can be against us."

///He chose you to choose him. He chose everyone to choose him. Many are called but few chosen because few respond (choose him). And this agrees with the scriptures above and other the nature and character of God as seen in Jesus and the Word.///

Very Well Said!

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Quote: """Saints some of you are losing sight over what Apolous posted. This thread is not about Christ choosing us vs we choosing Christ. But the OP is directed toward Christians of the choice they will have to make in leaving Babylon or staying in Babylon. This is the intent of the OP."""

For those that believe their choice will take them out of Babylon, it is folly.

No one could leave Babylon unless Jesus has made them His and He leads them out.

Quote: """God clearly tells his people to come out of Babylon in Rev.18:4. He warns them to flee the world system lest they share in her sins and God's judgement. God is exhorting his people to choose life."""

By God's exhorting He knows He has provided a way out of sins and judgment. Finally leading up to 2 Peter 1:10 we find it is only by the power of God and Christ that we can be led out of Babylon.

2 Peter 1:1-10 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

My calling and election is by confirmation by and in the knowledge and power of His election in His saints that are His, of whom He will loose none.

None of calling or election is of any understanding unless it is through Jesus Christ. With Him we can do all things, without Him we can do nothing.

Whose choice is it? Mine or His?

Even Jesus knew it was His Father's choice in what He did.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

We are the same, we can do nothing unless we see what the Son is doing In our lives.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Is this not what the vine gives the branches to bring forth fruit?

I can do nothing against the Truth, but with the Truth I can do all things.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

2Co 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

Who is the Truth and gives promise that the Holy Spirit will bring us into all truth?

Christ in you: Phillip

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The best sermon, I know of on the subject.

The Tightrope Walker!! - Calvinism vs. Arminianism by Keith Daniel

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=19110

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Quote: """Because you believe God had elected you to all eternity you are excused from the commands that require a holy life?"""

Much, Much more, the commands are even stronger now that I can obey them by the; 2 Peter 1:3-8 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sorry if my election is of no avail to you, unless by works I have to attain it. My election is real and true, by the by the Spirit giving proof to my soul in understanding; 1 John 5:18-20 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

How do we know? 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

1 John 5:10-12 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

We have the witness in ourselves; By the Life and living Spirit of Christ that is in us and by the Holy Spirit of promise; Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

It is a knowing that is the conformation and evidence of our election. The mind is now the Mind of Christ and He by The Holy Spirit of truth, confirms and evidences that Jesus
Christ is birthed in me and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son God.

Particularly Hebrews 6:1-7. That is a confirmation that we cannot loose our salvation. Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

It is impossible for those that are His to fall away. For if they did fall away it would be impossible to renew them again to repentance. That in itself is impossible, for repentance comes from God and He makes it our responsibility to receive it and agree with God in our confession, that we might be cleansed from all unrighteousness, This is the faithfulness and justification of God and He will not repent of His Faithfulness, to His offspring, the sons of God by the Son that is birthed in us.

If I could do anything myself to confirm my election, then God putting His Son on the Cross would be unable to use the blood shed to give Christ those that the price has been paid in full, those that are His.

I am His and He is mine and nothing man says can separate me from the love of God by His Son that is in me.

Hebrews 7:25-26 Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Who is able? Not me.

2 Corinthians 6:16-18 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Why do I believe this; Romans 8:36-39 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In Christ, not able to jump out of His Hands: Phillip

Hi Christinyou,

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

So We all agree that man left to himself does not seek God.

So God gave all Men the Law (Rom 2:15). so : (Rom 3:19)"that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

So we see that the Law is a tool, that God has given to all of humanity to Draw them (us) to Christ.

Galatians 3:24 : Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

All of humanity is Guilty (under Gods wrath) because they hold the truth.

Galatians 3:24 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, (who hold) the truth in unrighteousness.

We all agree that Faith is of God. Because for biblical Faith to exist, God must first speak.
If God does not speak we can not have faith to obey.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

So without hearing the Message of Christ, we can not have faith

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom ch 10 v 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

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Quote: """Some systematic theologies have turned the character of God into the head of lottery in which he chooses the "winning numbers", weekly. """

Not weekly but before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Is there one that would choose God? Psalms 14:2-3 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Unless Christ went to the Cross and makes His choice to keep those the Father has given Him, and paid the price, none would be saved.

God condemns no man to hell, man does that for himself. Praise God there are any that are saved, for without Gods interference in the life of men, which He planned before the foundation of the World, again, none would be saved.

who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ?

According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:

This condemns no man to hell, but brings sons into the Father's House, whom Christ is preparing for His own, His body, the Church, His perfect bride without spot or wrinkle and will present us to the Father that He may be all and in all.

In Christ and Christ in me of whom I did not ask the Father to put His incorruptible Seed in me making me a new creature, an offspring and son of God.

No man can accomplish this, I don't care what he does.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

In Christ: Phillip

allaboard wrote: /// Some systematic theologies have turned the character of God into the head of lottery in which he chooses the "winning numbers", weekly.///

That is what I also call that view , a lottery election.

If one reads The center of Romans ch 9 and excludes Romans chapters 1-3 which gives us an understanding of Gods purpose in what he does, Than I could see how one might come to that conclusion.

speaking of lottery election, Christinyou wrote: /// Not weekly but before the foundation of the world.///

This is where I find that we differ.

(Lets remember The historic linage that has taught this way, has from my research had an unbiblical lack of compassion when it comes to those whom disagreed with them, on theological issues.)(Augustine, Calvin, Luther, Zwingly, Synod of Dort, Boston Puritans of 1650's-60's etc.)

The Scripture does not at all indicate a lottery election!

The Bible does however indicate an Infinate God that elects and intervenes according to His determinate counsel and foreknowledge,

He foresees and intervenes where He see's fit. (Based on because of's)

Election is Based on Infinate Wisdom of a God, not Lottery.

Lets not Box Gods Sovereignty into Synod of Dort's Tulip

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Quote: """speaking of lottery election, Christinyou wrote: /// Not weekly but before the foundation of the world.///

This is where I find that we differ. """

Ephesians 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Legally and Spiritually.

Did God choose? Choose what? He chose us to be in Christ, not who would be. AS to the adoption, are we given to Christ by the Father?

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

What is this drawing? John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Those the Father has given to Jesus will come and He will not cast them out. No man can come to Jesus draws ((literally or figuratively):to drag--draw)) him. Jesus will raise him on the last day. All the Father has given Jesus, He will not loose, again, and raise him at the last day.

This is not God's lottery, but it is His plan before the foundation of the world, the Lamb slain, for those that are in Christ, those given by the Father in the counsel of His own will.

Are we given or not?
Are we received?

Ephesians 1:11-14 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

God did not push a botton and my number pop up, but He did by His own will birth His own Son in me, of whom' I am, a son by my Father of whom I did not choose, but Here I am, the offspring of God.

To the praise of God's Glory. Are we a new creation, are we born from above by the incorruptible Seed (sperma) of God, Is Christ in you, are we in Christ? Paul says so 146 times.

In Christ: Phillip

Hi Phillip,

Christinyou asked /// Did God choose?///

YES.

Christinyou wrote /// He chose us to be in Christ, not who would be. AS to the adoption, are we given to Christ by the Father? ///

This choosing is based on His Infinate wisdom, determinate counsel and foreknowledge.

Without Gods intervention we all continue to be "..like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way".

So God Has called.

called whom? .." now commandeth (all men) every where to repent."..

God that hath ..."made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation"

For what purpose hath He done all of this ??

"That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us"

whom is the "every one of us" ?? All Men every where, in this appointed dispensation in which we live. They all have not far from them "the kingdom of God (that)is within" Luke 17:21 (which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.)

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (all men) unto me.

Christinyou wrote ///Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
What is this drawing?///

This drawing Is of God!

man does not draw himself!

Man can not come to God unless God draws him!

All Men in this appointed dispensation are drawn! John 12:32

Out of this draw (call) of many, few are chosen!

Chosen or regected based on what??

the because of's.
their is always a because, or a for this cause, etc that determines a choice.

Acts 7:51
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

resist what ? The calling. because of this resistance, the foreknowledge of God determined before the world began that they would not be choosen.

Philip, I always apperciate you none contentious way of disscussing this normally contentious subject.

Psalm 89:19-37

"Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people. I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. The enemy shall not exact upon him, nor the son of wickedness afflict him. And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah."

Charles Spurgeon's comments on these verses follow:

Psalm 89:19

“Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one.” The Psalmist returns to a consideration of the covenant made with David. The holy one here meant may be either David or Nathan the prophet, but most probably the latter, for it was to him that the word of the Lord came by night. 2 Sam. 7:4,5.

God condescends to employ his gracious ministers to be the means of communication between himself and his favoured ones, - even to King David the covenant was revealed by Nathan the prophet; thus the Lord puts honour upon his ministers. “I have laid help upon one that is mighty.” The Lord had made David a mighty man of valour, and now he covenants to make him the helper and defender of the Jewish state.

In a far fuller sense the Lord Jesus is essentially and immeasurably mighty, and on him the salvation of his people rests by divine appointment, while his success is secured by divine strength being engaged to be with him. Let us lay our faith where God has laid our help. “I have exalted one chosen out of the people.” David was God's elect, elect out of the people, as one of themselves, and elect to the highest position in the state. In his extraction, election, and exaltation, he was an eminent type of the Lord Jesus, who is the man of the people, the chosen of God, and the king of his church. Whom God exalts let us exalt. Woe unto those who despise him, they are guilty of contempt of court before the Lord of Hosts, as well as of rejecting the Son of God.

Psalm 89:20

“I have found David my servant.” David was discovered by the Lord among the sheepfolds and recognised as a man of gracious spirit, full of faith and courage, and therefore fit to be leader in Israel. “With my holy oil have I anointed him.” By the hand of Samuel, David was anointed to be king long before he ascended the throne. The verse must also be expounded of the Prince Emanuel; he became the servant of the Lord for our sakes, the Father having found for us in his person a mighty deliverer, therefore upon him rested the Spirit without measure, to qualify him for all the offices of love to which he was set apart. We have not a Saviour self-appointed and unqualified, but one sent of God and divinely endowed for his work. Our Saviour Jesus is also the Lord's Christ, or anointed. The oil with which he is anointed is God's own oil, and holy oil; he is divinely endowed with the Spirit of holiness.

Psalm 89:21

“With whom my hand shall be established,” or, “with whom my hand shall ever be present.” The almightiness of God abides permanently with Jesus in his work as Redeemer and ruler of his people. “Mine arm also shall strengthen him.” The fulness of divine power shall attend him. This covenant promise ought to be urged in prayer before the Lord, for the great lack of the church at this time is power. We have everything except the divine energy, and we must never rest content until we see it in full operation among us. Jesus must be among us, and then there will be no lack of force in any of our church agencies.

Psalm 89:22

“The enemy shall not exact upon him;” he shall not be vexed and persecuted as a helpless debtor by an extortionate creditor. “Nor the son of wickedness afflict him.” Graceless men shall no longer make his life a burden. David had in his earlier history been hunted by Saul like a partridge on the mountains, and though he had striven in all things to act justly towards Saul, because he was the Lord's anointed, yet Saul was never content with his displays of loyalty, but persecuted him relentlessly. The covenant, therefore, engaged that his life of hardship and oppression should come to an end for ever; it did so in David's own person, and more remarkably still in the life of Solomon his son. Who does not in all this see a type of the Lord Jesus, who though he was once seized for our debts, and also evil entreated by the ungodly, is now so exalted that he can never be exacted upon any more, neither can the fiercest of his enemies vex him again. No Judas can now betray him to death, no Pilate can deliver him to be crucified. Satan cannot tempt him, and our sins cannot burden him.

Psalm 89:23

“And I will beat down his foes before his face” - crushing them and their plans. God himself thus fights the battles of his Son, and effectually overturns his foes. “And plague them that hate him,” or smite his haters. May none of us learn the terror of this threatening, which is surely being fulfilled upon all those unbelievers who have rejected the Son of God, and died in the hardness of their hearts. The prophecy is also having another fulfilment in the overthrow of systems of error, and the vexation caused to their promoters. There is no such plague to bad men as the prosperity of the cause of Jesus.

Psalm 89:24

“But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him.” These were the two attributes of which the Psalmist began to sing in Psalm 89:1 of the Psalm, doubtless because he saw them to be most prominent in the covenant which he was about to plead with God. To David and his seed, God was gracious and faithful, and though through their sin the literal kingdom lost all its glory and the dynasty became obscure, yet the line remained unbroken and more than all its former glory was restored by the enthronisation of him who is Prince of the kings of the earth, with whom the Lord's mercy and faithfulness remain for ever. All who are in Jesus should rejoice, for they shall prove in their own experience the faithful mercy of the Lord. “And in my name shall his horn be exalted.” Gloriously does the Lord Jesus lift up his head, raised to the highest place of honour by the mandate of the Father. David and Solomon in their dignity were but faint types of the Lord Jesus, who is far above all principalities and powers. The fullest exaltation of the horn of Jesus is yet to come in that millenial period which is hastening on.

Psalm 89:25

“I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.” He shall reach far beyond the little rivers which stand for boundaries in Palestine; he shall by his power embrace all lands from sea to sea. He shall lave his hand in the ocean and his right hand in earth's mightiest streams. As monarchs hold in their hands a globe to set forth their dominion over the earth, he shall grasp the more unconquerable sea, and be Lord of all. This power is to be given him of the Lord, and is to be abiding; so we understand the words “I will set.” The verse has in it a voice of good cheer concerning sailors and all dwellers on the waters; the hand of Jesus is over them, and as he found his first apostles by the sea, so we trust he still finds earnest disciples there.

Psalm 89:26

“He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father.” David's seed would be a praying race, and so in the main they were, and when they were not they smarted for it. The Lord Jesus was pre-eminent in prayer, and his favourite mode of address was “Father.” Never was there a son more filial in his cries than “the Firstborn among many brethren.” God had one Son without sin, but he never had a son who lived without prayer. “My God,” so our Lord called his Father when upon the cross. “And the rock of my salvation.” It was to his Father that he turned for help when in sore anguish in Gethsemane, and to him he committed his spirit in the article of death. In this filial crying the true sons should imitate him. This is the common language of the elect family: adoption, reverence, trust, must all speak in their turns, and will do if we are heirs according to promise. To say to God “Thou art my father” is more than learning and talent can teach us; the new birth is essential to this. Reader, hast thou the nature of a child and the spirit of one who can cry, “Abba, Father”?

Psalm 89:27

“Also I will make him my firstborn.” Among the kings the seed of David were to be most favoured and indulged with most love and paternal regard from God: but in Jesus we see this in the highest degree verified, for he has pre-eminence in all things, inasmuch as by inheritance he has a more glorious name than any other, and is “higher than the kings of the earth.” Who can rival heaven's Firstborn? The double portion and the government belong to him. Kings are honoured when they honour him, and those who honour him are kings! In the millenial glory it shall be seen what the covenant stores up for the once despised Son of. David, but even now faith sees him exalted as King of kings and Lord of lords. Lo, we bow before thee, thou Heir of all things! Our sheaves do obeisance to thy sheaf. All thy mother's children call thee blessed. Thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise. Jesus is no servant of princes, nor would he have his bride, the church, degrade herself by bowing before kings and eating the bread of a pensioner at their hands. He and his kingdom are higher than the kings of the earth. Let the great ones of the earth be wise and submit to him, for he is Lord, and he is the governor among the nations.

Psalm 89:28

“My mercy will I keep for him for evermore.” The kings of David's line needed mercy, and mercy prevented their house from utterly perishing until the Son of Mary came. He needs no mercy for himself, but he is a representative man, and the mercy of God is required for those who are in him: for such mercy is kept for ever. “And my covenant shall stand fast with him.” With Jesus the covenant is ratified both by blood of sacrifice and by oath of God; it cannot be cancelled or altered, but is an eternal verity, resting upon the veracity of one who cannot lie. What exultation fills our hearts as we see that the covenant of grace is sure to all the seed because it stands fast with him with whom we are indissolubly united.

Psalm 89:29

“His seed also will I make to endure for ever.” David's seed lives on in the person of the Lord Jesus, and the seed of Jesus in the persons of believers. Saints are a race that neither death nor hell can kill: Rome and its priests, with their inquisition and other infernal cruelties, have laboured to exterminate the covenant seed, but “vain is their rage, their efforts vain.” As long as God lives, his people must live. “And his throne as the days of heaven.” Jesus reigns on, and will reign till the skies shall fall, yea, and when the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, his throne shall stand. What a blessed covenant is this! Some commentators talk of conditions, but we fail to see any; the promises are as absolute as they can possibly be, and if any conditions as to the conduct of the favoured individuals can be conceived, they are disposed of in the succeeding verses.

Psalm 89:30

“If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments.” It was possible, terribly possible, that David's posterity might wander from the Lord; indeed they did so, but what then? Was the mercy of God to pass away from David's seed? - far from it. So, too, the seed of the Son of David are apt to start aside, but are they therefore cast away? Not a single word gives liberty for such an idea, but the very reverse. Expositors in their fear of Calvinistic doctrine shake off the fear of adding to the word of God, or else they would not have spent their time in talking about “the conditions” of this absolutely unconditional covenant.

Psalm 89:31

“If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments.” The dreadful “if” is suggested again, and the sad case is stated in other forms, But if it should be so, what then? Death and rejection? Ah, no; Blessed be God, No! If their sin be negative or positive, if it be forsaking or profanation; if either judgments or commandments or both be violated, yet there is not a word as to final destruction, but the very reverse. Legalism will import its ifs, but the Lord slays the ifs as fast as they rise. Eternal shalls and wills make glorious havoc among the and buts.

Psalm 89:32

“Then will I visit their transgression with the rod.” Not with the sword, not with death and destruction; but still with a smarting, tingling, painful rod. Saints must smart if they sin, God will see to that. He hates sin too much not to visit it, and he loves his saints too well not to chasten them. God never plays with his rod, he lays it well home to his children, he visits them with it in their houses, bodies, and hearts, and makes them know that he is grieved with their ways. He smites home and chastens “their iniquity with stripes,” which are either many or few in proportion as the heart is properly affected by them. The rod is a covenant blessing, and is meant to be used. As sin is so frequent, the rod never rests long together; in God's family the rod is not spared, or the children would be spoiled.

Psalm 89:33

“Nevertheless.” And a glorious nevertheless too! “Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him.” O glorious fear-killing sentence! This crowns the covenant with exceeding glory. Mercy may seem to depart from the Lord's chosen, but it shall never altogether do so. Jesus still enjoys the divine favour, and we are in him, and therefore under the most trying circumstances the Lord's lovingkindness to each one of his chosen will endure the strain. If the covenant could be made void by our sins it would have been void long ere this; and if renewed its tenure would not be worth an hour's purchase if it had remained dependant upon us. God may leave his people, and they may thereby suffer much and fall very low, but utterly and altogether he never can remove his love from them; for that would be to cast a reflection upon his own truth, and this he will never allow, for he adds, “nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.” Man fails in all points but God in none. To be faithful is one of the eternal characteristics of God, in which he always places a great part of his glory: his truth is one of his peculiar treasures and crown jewels, and he will never endure that it should be tarnished in any degree. This passage sweetly assures us that the heirs of glory shall not be utterly cast off. Let those deny the safety of the saints who choose to do so, we have not so learned Christ. We believe in the gospel rod, but not in the penal swats for the adopted sons.

Psalm 89:34

“My covenant will I not break.” It is his own covenant. He devised it drew up the draft of it, and voluntarily entered into it; he therefore thinks much of it. It is not a man's covenant, but the Lord claims it as his own. It is an thing among men for one to be a “covenant-breaker,” and such an opprobrious epithet shall never be applicable to the Most High. “Nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.” Alterations and afterthoughts belong to short-sighted beings who meet with unexpected events which operate upon them to change their minds, but the Lord who sees everything from the beginning has no such reason for shifting his ground. He is besides immutable in his nature and designs, and cannot change in heart, and therefore not in promise. A word once given is sacred; once let a promise pass our lips and honesty forbids that we should recall it, - unless indeed the thing promised be impossible, or wicked, neither of which can happen with the promises of God. How consoling it is to see the Lord thus resolute. He, in the words before us, virtually reasserts his covenant and rehearses his engagements. This he does at such length, and with such reiteration, that it is evident he takes pleasure in that most ancient and solemn contract. If it were conceivable that he had repented of it, he would not be found dwelling upon it, and repeating it with renewed emphasis.

Psalm 89:35

“Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.” Because he could swear by no greater he swore by himself, and by that peculiar attribute, which is his highest glory being the subject of threefold adoration by all the hosts of heaven. God here pledges the crown of his kingdom, the excellent beauty of his person, the essence of his nature. He does as good as say that if he ceases to be true to his covenant he will have forfeited his holy character. What more can he say? In what stronger language can he express his unalterable adherence to the truth of his promise? An oath is the end of all strife; it ought to be the end of all doubt on our part. We cannot imagine that God could lie, yet he puts it so - that if the covenant were not kept by him, he would regard it as a lie. Here is ground for strong confidence; may our faith be of such a nature as these assurances will warrant.

Psalm 89:36

“His seed shall endure for ever.” David's line in the person of Jesus is an endless one, and the race of Jesus, as represented in successive generations of believers, shows no sign of failure. No power, human or Satanic, can break the Christian succession; as saints die others shall rise up to fill their places, so that till the last day, the day of doom, Jesus shall have a seed to serve him. “And his throne as the sun before me.” In our Lord Jesus the dynasty of David remains upon the throne. Jesus has never abdicated, nor gone into banishment. He reigns, and must reign so long as the sun continues to shine upon the earth. A seed and a throne are the two great promises of the covenant, and they are as important to us as to our Lord Jesus himself; for we are the seed who must endure for ever, and we are protected and ennobled by that King whose royalties are to last for ever.

Psalm 89:37

“It shall be established for ever as the moon.” The kingdom may wax and wane to mortal eyes, but it shall still abide as long as the moon walks in her silver beauty. “And as a faithful witness in heaven.” The most stable part of the universe is selected as a type of Messiah's kingdom, and both sun and moon are made to be symbols of its long endurance. Whatever else there is in the sky which faithfully witnesses to the unbending course of nature is also called upon to be a sign of the Lord's truth. When heaven and earth witness, and the Lord himself swears, there remains no excuse for doubting, and faith joyfully reposes in confident expectation.

eight

allaboard said,

"God is no respecter of persons. He loves all men, died for all men and desires all to come to repentance.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

"Not willing that any should perish"

Thus saith, the Holy Spirit!

Yet, there are some systematic theologies don't agree with God's word." [end of allaboard quote]

allaboard said, "...He loves all men..." but,

The Word of God,inspired by the Holy Spirit saith,

Deuteronomy 7:6-10 "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the LORD loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face.

John 14:21-23 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."
Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, "Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Hebrews 12:6-8 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Again, allaboard said, "...died for all men..." but,

The Word of God,inspired by the Holy Spirit saith,

Matthew 26:27,28 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you, for this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many, for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 14:23,24 And taking the cup and giving thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

John 10:15 Just as the Father knows Me, I also know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, just as I said to you.

John 15:13,14 Greater love has no one than this, that one should lay down his life on behalf of his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you.

Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit placed you as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God, which He purchased with His own blood.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your own wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her.

And finally,

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

but is longsuffering to us-ward: not to all the individuals of human nature, for the persons intended by us are manifestly distinguished from "some men" in the text, and from scoffers, mocking at the promise of Christ's coming, in the context, 2 Peter 3:3; and are expressly called beloved, 2 Peter 3:1; and God's longsuffering towards them is their salvation, 2 Peter 3:15, nor is it true of all men, that God is not willing that any of them should perish, and that everyone of them should come to repentance, since many of them do perish in their sins, and do not come to repentance, which would not be the case, if his determining will was otherwise; besides, a society or company of men are designed, to which the apostle himself belonged, and of which he was a part; and who are described, in his epistles, as the elect of God, called out of darkness, into marvellous light, and having obtained like precious faith with the apostles; and must be understood either of God's elect among the Jews, for Peter was a Jew, and they were Jews he wrote to; and then the sense is, that the delay of Christ's coming is not owing to any slackness in him, but to his longsuffering to his elect among the Jews, being unwilling that any of that number among them should perish, but that all of them repent of their sins, and believe in him; and therefore he waits till their conversion is over, when a nation shall be born at once, and they that have pierced him look on him and mourn, and so all Israel shall be saved; or rather of the elect in general, whether among Jews or Gentiles, upon whom the Lord waits to be gracious, and whose longsuffering issues in their conversion and salvation. And upon account of these the Lord stays his coming till their number is complete in the effectual calling; and for their sakes he is longsuffering to others, and bears with a wicked world, with the idolatry, superstition, heresy, profaneness, and impiety, with which it abounds; but when the last man that belongs to that number is called, he will quickly descend in flames of fire, and burn the world, and the wicked in it, and take his chosen ones to himself.

not willing that any should perish; not any of the us, whom he has loved with an everlasting love, whom he has chosen in his Son, and given to him, and for whom he has died, and who are brought to believe in him. These, though they were lost in Adam, did not perish; and though in their own apprehensions, when awakened and convinced, are ready to perish; and though their peace, joy, and comfort, may perish for a while, and they may fear a final and total perishing; yet they shall never perish as others do, or be punished with everlasting destruction: and that this is the will of God, appears by his choice of them to salvation; by the provisions of grace for them in an everlasting covenant; by the security of their persons in the hands of Christ; by sending his Son to obtain salvation for them, and his Spirit to apply it to them; and by his keeping them by his power, through faith, unto salvation.

But that all should come to repentance; not legal, but evangelical, without which all must perish; and which all God's elect stand in need of, as well as others, being equally sinners; and which they cannot come to of themselves, and therefore he not only calls them to it, in his word, and by his spirit and grace, but bestows it upon them; he has exalted Christ at his own right hand, to give it to them; and repentance is a grant from him, a free gift of his grace; and the Spirit is sent down into their hearts to work it in them, to take away the stony heart, and give an heart of flesh; without which, whatever time and space may be given, or means afforded, even the most awful judgments, the greatest mercies, and the most powerful ministry, will be of no avail. (J.G.)

seven

Matthew 1:21 And she will bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Acts 5:31 "This One God has exalted to His right hand as Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Mark 4:10-12 And when He was alone, those around Him, with the Twelve, asked Him as to the parable. And He said to them, To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God. But to these, those outside, all things are being given in parables, that seeing they may see and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand, lest they should convert, and their sins be forgiven them.

2 Timothy 2:25,26 in meekness instructing those opposing--if perhaps God may give to them repentance to an acknowledging of the truth, and they may awake out of the devil's snare, having been caught by him at his will.

Romans 9:22,23 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory--

Mat 16:15-17 He said to them, But you, whom do you say Me to be? And answering, Simon Peter said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. And answering, Jesus said to him, Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven.

Matthew 11:27 "All things were handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son, except the Father, nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and the one to whom the Son desires to reveal Him.

Luke 10:21-23 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me by my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. And he turned himself to his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see.

savannah wrote //// Again, allaboard said, "...died for all men..." but,
The Word of God,inspired by the Holy Spirit saith,
Matthew 26:27,28 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you, for this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many, for the forgiveness of sins. Mark 14:23,24 And taking the cup and giving thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.
////

The Inspired Scripture also says : John 12:32

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (all men) unto me.

The Inspired Scriptures teach, That Jesus did not die for all, but is drawing all, and commanding all to repent. (and those whosoever will repent, He died for)

His Infinite Wisdom before the foundation of the world which searcheth the reins and hearts,
Which foreknew who would respond to His draw (call) after He was lifted up.

By His determinate counsel, He foreknew What way each and every man,s heart would deviseth, So from this Infinite Wisdom the Lord directeth (He predestinated) each mans steps.

From the Foundation of the World, God is choosing a few, out of the many that, He is calling and commanding and drawing.

Acts 17:30 He commandeth (draw) (call) ALL MEN every where to repent.

This is Why The Bible says that He: Acts 17:26
"hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation"

SO that : v.27 "they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:"

The "everyone of us" is, every accountable aged person in this dispensation of time.

God is no longer winking at any of His offspring, They are all being drawn, called and commanded to repent!

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Jesus in Luke 17 v 21 says "...behold, the kingdom of God is within you." notice to whom He is spoke this to.

"Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?"

What a Loving Gracious God calling whoesoever will to come to Him!

edit: for clarity

Quote: "Yet, it is written that Hell is Enlarged Daily as men choose Hell instead of Heaven."

Where is this written?