Terri Schiavo, death by starvation, please pray for her

Dear brother's and sisters of SI,I would ask us to pray for Terri Schiavo who is mentally disabled and is going to be starved to death by Florida courts this Friday March 18th. Do a search on Google and you will find updates on the story. Let's pray for her and this situation. Grace,Doug

you can use this link to find out more and to take action:http://www.family.org/cforum/extras/a0035607.cfm

Fasting and Prayer for Terri.The Lord has put a burden on me for Terri Schiavo. Iwill not eat until He heals her, she goes to stand before Him, or they reinsert her feeding tube. I will be approaching my fellowship with the request for others to join me petitioning the Lord on her behalf. Anyone care to commit to do the same? Nothing but water, or whatever your heart puts on you. Terri needs our help. In His Service, Mike

I guess y'all know that they federeal courts refused her parents the right to have her tube reinserted.

Yes, I've been praying for Terri for weeks.Praying that the Lord end this circus once and for all and take her home. I'm glad her request to not be kept alive in this condition is finally being answered. I consider starvation (painful or cerebally unaware) to be a SMALL, insignificant price to pay to find my way to standing before God rather than living like that.Thank God for giving the courts His wisdom to finally put an end to all this.

Praying that the Lord end this circus once and for all and take her home. I would not really call it a circus and I don't think the Lord I serve would call it that eitherbut he did leave me a scripture to go by in cases like this, as for as my opinion I have learned to sometimes just keep my opinions to myself especially if they don't edify.Pro. 31:8Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those who are perishing.

Here, here!And respect the wishes of her spouse.We should pray for our judicial branch, and the seperation of powers.All legal authority is granted by God. And no, this is no slippery slope, and no, it will not aid the anti-abortion cause. Might even be counterproductive...We, as the body of Christ, have failed, not the USA.

I beleive circus would discribe the political grandstanding. And protester's name-calling.I doubt the issue of life was meant, but i cannot speak for the poster.

Pro. 31:8Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those who are perishing.The scripture doesn't apply as Terri DID, for all intents and purposes, speak for herself...she said don't keep me alive like this.Finally, she's getting what she asked for. It is justice.I told my wife the other day that if I were Terri and granted by God just a few moments to "come back" and be normal again, I'd be cussing her and everyone else in the country out who was demanding I be kept alive and extending my torment. I can hardly begin to imagine how utterly livid I would be at learning that my drooling, insensible face had been plastered all over the world's media for everyone to see. You can't begin to imagine the rage I'd surely feel.I firmly believe Terri would do the same. So do the courts after hearing all the evidence. That's why, thank the Lord, she's being ALLOWED TO DIE. Not "killed" as many would have us believe.

The scripture doesn't apply as Terri DID, for all intents and purposes, speak for herself...she said don't keep me alive like this.Sorry, I did not know she could even speak guess I have not been following this that close, so why if she said this is there such a big deal?

Finally, she's getting what she asked for. It is justice....I did not know she could even speak guess I have not been following this that close, so why if she said this is there such a big deal? There is no record of her saying anything regarding her wishes on this subject matter. Her husband testified of an offhand comment she made while they were watching a movie together over 15 years ago. Had she left instructions in a living will there wouldn't be the need for this tragic circus. The issue would be black and white, at least from a legal perspective. As it is, all the courts had to go by is the word of her husband. My guess isn't that they weren't wanting to see Terri die as much as they were wanting to see a 15 year old problem go away. The question I have is this: if they decided her death is humane, then why not do it humanely with an injection instead of starvation? You know, like we do for sick animals.I suppose they had to save that logical step for the next court case...MC

hafta agree with the previous post in that I think it would make more sense to "put her down" rather than let her linger into eternity like this.On the other hand, I CAN see their somewhat warped distinction that one is killing, the other is just letting her go. For example, if Terry were perfectly alive and conscious and refusing to eat, starving herself to death, we would not be injecting her to kill her faster. We'd legally be bound to just let her starve herself to death. Her state of consciousness doesn't really matter. The judges had to make a decision whether or not those were really her wishes and that's it.And based upon the testimony of her husband and other family members it was decided that it was her wish not to be kept alive.I for one am glad that they are focusing mainly on the spouse's wishes in the case of no previous written directive. I think that's how it SHOULD be, for the person you marry is the person that knows you best (or should). If we started letting in the opinions of grandparents, parents, and siblings, children, etc overiding the spouse, that's a nasty can of legal worms.Not that it helps in my case. My wife, who is on the opposite side of me on this issue has made it clear there's no way she'd ever pull a plug on me if i were in that state...erego, my living will will be plain (that I want to die) and also emphasize that the final decision should be up to my MOTHER...not my wife. (Mom agrees with me).

I don't think God would consider it suicide to reject artificial life-support. If God didn't work a miracle in my life and I was hooked up to a machine, *please* pull that plug and let me be with Jesus for eternity. I'm glad for Terri.

I'm not against allowing death to take its course, but from the evidence I've heard she's far from a vegetable. The problems I have with her being starved or dehydrated to death are:1) it's not humane. From what I understand, they will not even allow the family to attempt to feed her or give her water orally. From what I've heard, after the accident she could eat and drink but her care deteriorated so she deteriorated.2) I don't think the husband has the best wishes of Terri in mind. I think he's in it to get rid of his wife. He has two kids by another lady? while supposedly still being married to Terri.3) What about her salvation? Is she saved? If she dies without Christ, things only get worse for her if we cause her death by pulling her feeding tube.- To answer the previous post on her coming back cussing those that were trying to save her: if she's coming back cussing - she's not a Christian. I'm voting for life here considering that she still seems to interact with her family and she didn't leave a will that stated she didn't want to live if she had to have a feeding tube.

For the last time:Terri was not on a "machine". There was a straw stuck in her side that they pushed food through. For someone on "life support" she sure has lasted a long time since they "pulled the plug" don't you think???? 7 days and still counting. I don't care what the "media" tells you. Do more research. She was far from a vegetable and was not on "life support". This is state sanctioned murder. Sadly, the soldiers at the foot of the cross treated Jesus better. At least they offered him vinegar/gall which was a pain killer (Jesus refused of course). Terri is dying of starvation/dehydration and they won't allow so much as a drop of water to touch her tongue. We are more barbaric than the Romans. Imagine that in this "enlightened, civilized" society we have...

- To answer the previous post on her coming back cussing those that were trying to save her: if she's coming back cussing - she's not a Christian.What a wonderful world you must live in where all Christians are perfect and never get upset or lose their temper ;-) There's a lot of propoganda running around about Terry and her condition and what her husband did or did not do for her. The OFFICIAL court documents tell a wholly different story than the ones floating around about him being a monster. The research done by the independent researchers appointed by the court when this whole mess started show that Michael spent YEARS and very much money trying to care for his wife and improve her condition immediately after this happened to her. It was only when such methods failed repeatedly did he finally opt to do WHAT SHE ASKED HIM TO DO which is let her go.Many on the Religious Right (of which I am a member) cry "compassion" for her because she is starving to death. I likewise cry compassion in saying let her go. You focus too much on this world and not the things beyond. I don't know how any Christian can maintain their sanity when if they live their lives feeling that a week or more without food is not worth enduring to meet their Lord face to face. Look beyond the meager body and see the greater picture through God's eyes.Paul wrote that To die is gain He didn't say "To die peacefully in your sleep is gain" He said death, period, and he wrote this while facing some form of hideous death by torture for all he know. Those Christians in the NT knew what persecution and painful death was all about, yet they did it praising God all the while. Why? Because HOW YOU DIE IS IRRELEVANT! You are going to be with the Lord. That thought alone should fill your soul with a bliss that transcends all worry or fear or pain.Many see Terri's parents as selfless, caring wonderful people who just want to care for their daughter. Not I. I see them as selfish and of little faith. They don't want to keep Terri for Terri's sake, they want to keep her for THEIR sake. And as for whether or not Terri is saved. We know she was a practicing Catholic (which doesn't tell us everything), but I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that she is, and if she isn't...another twenty years hooked up to tubes with your cerebral cortex melted (read totally unaware of your surroundings and the fact that you're alive/human), isn't going to change her desitny much at all.

Only ONE judge has heard any of the evidence and that is judge Greer. Please stop referring to "the courts" because only ONE judge has looked at this case and it's been the same judge for the LAST 7 YEARS. All of the appeals that have been made in the last week have been an attempt to get a new hearing. The appeals courts aren't doing anything but attempting to see if the case needs to be reheard on a technicality. They are not rehearing any testimony and are not looking at any of the evidence. This same judge, in 1998, didn't issue a restraining order for a woman against her husband because of a technicallity and the woman's husband stabbed her to death a few days later Judge Greer misses another one...Also, Terri's "husband" has been living with another woman since 1993 and has fathered 2 children with her. His motives for wanting her to die are extremely suspect. Most people are completely unaware of what's really going on with Terri Schiavo because they are trusting ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and the like for their news. These news organizations are withholding this info because they are sympathetic to assisted suicide and euthanasia. Hitler loved those things too...Just research his "T-4" program.

Well she will be going before the ultimate supreme court here soon that will vote life! eternal life! no more suffering. I do agree with one poster "death by starvation?" with things like this happening, I just pray it won't be long before the Supreme Judge returns to take us out of this sad Country that offers liberty and justice for all except for Terri Schiavo, Judges rule this Country and if you don't think so turn on you TV if you can stand it for a minute or two and see for yourself. Government for the people yea wake me up when this becomes real.

Matt25 wrote:Most people are completely unaware of what's really going on with Terri Schiavo because they are trusting ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and the like for their news. So where are you getting your info from?If you are a family friend or even part of the family, then you could make a comment like that. Everyone to a lesser or greater degree is affected by the media bias which they hold to.

The research done by the independent researchers appointed by the court when this whole mess started show that Michael spent YEARS and very much money trying to care for his wife and improve her condition immediately after this happened to her. It was only when such methods failed repeatedly did he finally opt to do WHAT SHE ASKED HIM TO DO which is let her go.I'd like to see your source material on this because it's quite wrong. Also, attending nurses in the early 90's have sworn affidavits stating that Michael Schaivo said on many occasions that he did not know Terri's wishes should she end up in such a condition. His testimony that she wished to have her life ended in a situation like this is only recent testimony, which, in fact, contradicts his earlier statements.Here's a timeline of the events taken off of www.terrisfight.net: It's quite long. This website also is filled with much valuable information on this topic.1990 Feb - Terri Collapses in her homeMay - Terri discharged from Humana Hospital in St Petersburg, Florida.Dec - Terri taken to California for experimental implant 1991 Feb - Terri moved to home with husband.Jan - Terri moved to Bradenton Mediplex Rehabilitation Center.Apr - Terri's condition is assessed as improving.Apr - Terri's husband advised to move her to Gainesville Rehabilitation Center to receive advanced therapy to continue Terri's recovery.Jul - Terri moved to Sable Palms Nursing Home. 1992 Aug - Terri awarded $250,000 in malpractice settlement.Nov - Terri awarded $1.4 million in malpractice trial.Nov - Michael Schiavo awarded $600,000 in malpractice trial. 1993 Feb - Michael Schiavo denies recommended rehabilitation treatment.Feb - Schiavo and Terri's parents have falling out regarding lack of therapy for Terri.Feb - Schiavo withholds medical information from Terri's parents.Feb - Schiavo posts Do not Resuscitate order in Terri's medical chart.Jun - Schiavo threatens Schindler family with lawsuit.Aug - Schiavo orders medical staff not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection.Sep - Bob and Mary Schindler petition courts to remove Schiavo as Terri's guardian.Nov - Schiavo admits in deposition that he knew withholding treatment of infection could result in Terri's death. 1994 Feb - Judge Penick dismisses guardianship suit.Apr - Terri moved to Palm Gardens Nursing Home. 1995 Sep - Schiavo orders Palm Gardens not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection. 1996 Jun - Terri's parents obtain court order for access to Terri's medical records. 1997 May - Judge Shames approves Schiavo action to remove Terri's nutrition and hydration.Jul - Schiavo's engagement to Jodi Centonze announced.Aug - Attorney Felos's letter notifying Terri's parents of action to remove Terri's nutrition and hydration. 1998 Jun - Guardian ad Litem appointed by court to investigate Terri's case.Oct - Schiavo offers to donate Terri's inheritance to charity if family agrees to allow removal of her hydration and nutrition.Dec - Guardian ad Litem recommends the court not approve Schiavo's petition. 1999 Feb - Attorney George Felos files bias charges against Guardian ad Litem.Jun - Guardian ad Litem dismissed by the court. 2000 Jan - Judge Greer Conducts Terri’s Feeding Tube Removal Trial.Feb - Greer Rules to Remove Nutrition Feeding Tube.Feb – Affidavits filed by 3 doctors state Terri can swallow and is not PVS. PVS is Persistant Vegetative StateFeb - Greer denies petition to allow Terri swallowing tests. Apr - Terri Moved from Palm Gardens Nursing Home to Hospice Facility.Apr - Greer denies motion to return Terri to Palm Garden Nursing home. Apr - Greer imposes restricted visitor list for Terri.Jul - Appeal filed with Appellate Court to overturn Greer’s verdict.Nov - Appellate Court Conducts Oral Arguments. 2001 Jan 25 - The appellate court upholds Judge Greer’s ruling to remove Terri's feeding..Feb. 8 - Motion for an Appellate Court rehearing or clarification - Denied.Mar 12 - Schiavo petitions to remove Terri’s feeding immediately.Mar 23 - Florida Supreme Court denies motion with the to review Terri's case.Mar 22 - Appellate Court issued a 30 day execution stay.Mar 29 - Judge Greer moves up feeding removal date to April 20, 2001.Apr 1 - The Appellate Court denies extending Terri's stay of execution.Apr 12 - Attorney Anderson files motion disqualify Judge Greer.Apr 16 - Judge Greer denies disqualification motion.Apr 18 - The Florida Supreme Court refuses to hear Terri’s case & denies Stay.Apr 19 - The Federal Court claimed the issue was beyond that court's jurisdiction.Apr 23 - The US Supreme Court refused to hear Terri’s case.Apr 24 - Terri Feeding was terminated.Apr 25 - Schiavo bans Terri brother and sister from visiting Terri.Apr 25 - Schiavo ex girlfriend (Cyndi) reveals Schiavo lied about Terri’s death wishes.Apr 26 - Judge Greer refuses to hear new evidence about Schiavo’s lying.Apr 26 - New evidence compels Civil court Judge Quesada to resume Terri's feeding. Apr 30 - Schiavo files an emergency motion to have Terri's nutritional feeding stopped. May 7 - Affidavit filed by Dr. Hammesfahr (neurology) states Terri is not in a PVS.May 7 - Schiavo charged in the Civil Court with fraud.May 8 - Schiavo ex girlfriend (Cyndi) refuses to testify for fear of Schiavo.May 9 - The 2nd District Court of Appeals announces "Oral Arguments Hearing" date.May 11 - Schiavo motion to negate Judge Quesada's order denied.Jun 1 - Affidavits by five (5) Doctors were filed stating Terri was not in a PVS.Jun 1 - Schiavo excused from rendering his deposition.Jun 18 - Schiavo files an affidavit that Terri is in an irreversible vegetative. Jun 21 - Chief Judge Demers gave Judge George Greer's Court authority to decide whether Terri should have any new medical evaluation or treatment.Jun 25 - A three-member panel presided at the Appellate Court hearing.Jul 11 - The Appellate Court ordered Greer court to conduct evidentiary hearings. The court denied Schiavo's attorneys request to order Terri's feeding stopped. July 23 - Schiavo filed a motion for Judge Greer to immediately stop Terri's feeding. Aug 7 - Judge Greer totally ignored or rationalized all the evidence presented to him. Orders Terri's feeding stopped on August 28, 2001.Aug 10 - Attorney Anderson motion to disqualify Judge Greer denied.Aug 14 - Greer denies request for Conducting Terri Medical Examinations.Aug 16 - Attorney Anderson files a Notice of Appeal with the 2nd District Appeal Court.Aug 17 - Judge Greer grants Terri a stay of execution until October 9, 2001. Aug 20 - Schiavo files with the 2nd District Appeal Court to overrule Judge Greer stay.Oct 7 - 2nd District Appeal Court orders Terri to be neurological tested.Oct 23 - Schiavo files a motion to reverse the Appellate Court neurological tests order.Nov 1 - The 2nd District Court of Appeals denies Schiavo's motion..Nov 16 - Terri's medical testing plan will be determined before a mediator.Dec 19 - Attorneys meet with a mediator in an attempt to agree upon the tests . 2002 Jan 18 - Mediated agreement failed, testing is back Greer’s courtroom to be resolved.Jan 25 - Attorney Anderson petitioned the court for an evidentiary guardianship hearing.Jan 29 - Judge Greer approved Schiavo's motion to cancel the evidentiary hearing. Feb 7 - Schiavo files with the Florida Supreme Court to overturn the Appellate Court's October ruling which spared Terri's life.Mar 14 - The Florida Supreme Court denied Michael Schiavo’s appeal.Jun 19 - Schiavo objects to the medical and neurological testing.Jul 1 - Judge Greer conducted a 3+ hr hearing involving three issues:1. Schiavo’s Plan to Enroll Terri into a Medicaid Program2 Termination of Schiavo's Attorney Fees3. Equal Payment for Terri's Examining DoctorsJul 10 - Court Hearing again was for the purpose of allowing certain medical tests that were requested to evaluate Terri’s true medical and neurological condition.Jul 12 - Judge Greer ruled -not-to-pay- Terri’s doctors for their professional fees to examine Terri. Notably, in a previous hearing, Judge Greer -approved- payment for Schiavo’s doctors fees.Jul 22 - Judge Greer approved three of Terri’s desired neurological tests and rejected a dozen other.Aug 28 - Judge Greer established the dates for Terri's trial.Oct 2 - Schiavo files petition to prohibit the media from seeing Terri’s recent neurological examination videotapes or airing the video’s to the public after they have been presented to the court as evidence.Oct 2 - Schiavo petitioned the court to authorize Terri’s cremation.Oct 11-22 Terri’s trialNov15 - Judge Greer conducted a hearing in response to a motion Attorney Anderson filed requesting time to investigate recent evidence suggesting Terri’s heart failure may have been caused by physical abuse.Nov 22 - Greer orders Terri’s starvation death to begin on Jan 3, 2003. Dec 9 - Attorney Anderson filed a ‘Notice of Appeal’ to the 2nd District Appellate Court. Dec 9- Attorney Anderson filed a motion with Judge Greer to ‘stay’ the January 3rd feeding termination date. Dec 10 - Schiavo filed a motion with Judge Greer to strike attorney Anderson’s motion to ‘stay,’ requesting a court hearing to argue his objection. Dec 13 - Judge Greer acquiesced to Michael Schiavo’s attorney motion to conduct a hearing, which resulted in a ‘stay’ being granted, pending appellate resolution.Dec 18 - Schiavo filed a motion with the 2nd District Appellate Court to overturn Judge Greer’s December 13th order. Dec 23 - The 2nd Appellate Court denied Michael Schiavo’s attorney motion to overturn Judge Greer’s December 13, 2002 ‘stay’ order. Furthermore, the Appellate Court established filing dates and scheduled Appellate oral arguments to take place on April 4, 2003. 2003 Guardian Removal Petition Still Pending…On November 15, 2002, attorney Anderson filed a petition with Judge Greer to remove Michael Schiavo as Terri’s legal guardian. The petition included a declaration of Adversary Proceedings, charging that Michael Schiavo violated a dozen or more specific Florida Statutes while serving in his capacity as Terri’s legal guardian.Apr - Appellate Court Hearing.Jun - Appellate Court Upholds Greer.Jul - Appellate Court Denies Court Review and Stay.Jul - Appellate Court grants 30 day stay.Aug - Terri hospitalized under mysterious conditions, denied visits from her priest.Sep - Emergency hearing to allow visitation and obtain current medical information.Sep - Michael Schiavo ordered by court to give discharge summary to Terri's parents.Sep - Judge Greer scheduled October 15, 2003 for the removal of Terri's sustenance.Oct - 15 Terri's sustenance removed at Hospice Woodside in Pinellas Park, FL.Oct - 20 Florida Legislature and Senate meet in special session Terri's bill is introduced.Oct - 21 Terri's bill approved, signed into law. Governor Bush issues executive orderr.Oct - 23 Michael Schiavo announces plans to sue Governor Bush and challenge Terri's Law as unconstitutional.Oct - Dr. Jay Wolfson of Tampa, Florida assigned as independent Guardian ad Litem.Nov - New Guardianship hearing in Sixth Circuit court. Nov - Disability advocacy groups file Amicus Brief.Nov - Judge Baird to hear case on Terri's Law. Governor not properly served in suit, appeals venue.Nov - Governor Bush petitions to remove Judge W. Douglas Baird on suggestion of bias.Dec - 3 Terri's birthday. Supporters convene at Woodside Hospice. Terri receives more than 1,000 birthday cards and gifts. Dec - Governor Bush denied discovery in Schiavo v Bush. Governor denied subpoenaing witnesses.Dec - 20 Guardian ad Litem dismissed by Judge Demers.Dec - 22 Judge Baird rules that he will issue a summary ruling on Terri's law without a trial. His ruling is withheld until appeals by Governor Bush are ruled upon in the Second District Court of Appeals in Lakeland, Florida. 2004 Jan - 8, Judge Demers denies petition for reinstatement of Guardian ad Litem

This information is not hiddenGo to terrisfight.org for starters (website run by her immediate family)Did you read the article I linked for you about Judge Greer??Also you can try drudgereportNewsmaxTalk radio is also another great source for info...You have to read from other media sources other than the big boys...My point is that the Big News organizations are commiting the sin of omission. They are only telling you half the story (Michael Schiavo's half) and even when they tell that side they are painting a very flattering picture of Michael which anyone in the "know" will tell you isn't accurate. How many times have they mentioned that he has been living with another woman for the last 13 years and has fathered 2 other children with her???

AWESOME POST HULSEY!!!Check this out!!!Judge Greer takes large donation from Michael Shciavo's attorney's law firm!!!!! Judge Greer takes donation from Schiavo's attorneyAnyone want to bet this never sees the light of day on the major news networks??

I may be wrong but the law that deal with this states that the husband should make the decision? If so I think the law should be upheld. If the law is wrong then it should be changed. I mean this whole thing has just become a big circus. The bush brothers jumped in, congress etc in a judical matter. There is a law that addresses this and it should be upheld. many are praying now for God to spare her, or to intervene in a way that would make us feel better but the truth is God will not be swayed by our pleading for this woman, His mind has been made up and His will will be done. If these are Terri's last days then they are and if not she will live untill the appointed time. I'm curious though, why is it that SSSOOOO much attention is being paid to this story? Are there not more pressing issues?

I'm curious though, why is it that SSSOOOO much attention is being paid to this story? Are there not more pressing issues?For a VERY good reason: Terry Schiavo is NOT in a vegetative state. She is severely brain damaged. She is not and has never been on life support--feeding tubes are not considered life support and doctors have testified and believe that with rehabilitation she can be taught to swallow again making the feeding assist uneeded.This qualifies Terry Schaivo as a handicapped person and in need of special protection from the state. If this is all true, then we're killing someone simply because taking care of her would be too difficult.

Paul wrote that To die is gain He didn't say "To die peacefully in your sleep is gain" He said death, period, and he wrote this while facing some form of hideous death by torture for all he know. Those Christians in the NT knew what persecution and painful death was all about, yet they did it praising God all the while. Why? Because HOW YOU DIE IS IRRELEVANT! I tried staying out of this thread because of my own emotions on the topic, but I have to address the scripture and how it is used above. Paul was not speaking of the MANNER of death, he was speaking of the TIMING of death. He would choose to leave EARLY, but because the Lord was not done with him in the flesh, he was staying on the earth to fulfill his commission. Is Terri's commission done? Is one's being able to walk/talk, etc a prerequisite for being used by God? I don't believe so. There are many precious incapacitated children who have done nothing but blessed, encouraged, and strengthened those whose lives they have touched......and God took them when HE was ready........just my two cents and I do know this: The Lord's hand is upon Terri and whatever will come He does allow(Good and Evil)-----for the benefit of all who will become/are His. He also allows wickedness to run rampant to expose it for what it is and so every mouth may be shut without excuse on that great day. In Him, Cindy

I'm curious though, why is it that SSSOOOO much attention is being paid to this story? Are there not more pressing issues?Because Terri is NOT terminally ill. She is NOT a vegetable. She is NOT on life support (notice that she's still alive after 8 days?). And because we believe Terri is being murdered, not "allowed to die". Her "husband" has been living in adultery with another woman for over 10 years and has fathered 2 children with her. You should read over Hulsey's post where he lists the timeline of the events. Have you honestly reviewed all of the evidence for this or are you assuming that Judge Greer has done what's in the best interest for Terri? You know the judges in America also approved of slavery and segregation for over 200 years. An argument could be made and is being made that our judges are not longer making decisions that would be in line with God's will.

ok I see, my thing though is that there are 3000-5000 (the u.n. said it's genocide-like but not quite genocide, whatever that means)people being butchered in the darfur region of the sudan and I have seen very little about that on t.v., should we be concerned or it doesn't matter coz it's a bunch of crazy arabs killing a lot of africans over there so it's cool? But then again that may not be common knowledge.

Her "husband" has been living in adultery with another woman for over 10 years and has fathered 2 children with her. You should read over Hulsey's post where he lists the timeline of the events. Have you honestly reviewed all of the evidence for this or are you assuming that Judge Greer has done what's in the best interest for Terri? You know the judges in America also approved of slavery and segregation for over 200 years. An argument could be made and is being made that our judges are not longer making decisions that would be in line with God's will. ok I didn't look at the tieline in detail and I know that her husband has moved on but by law he is still her husband and according to the law it is his decision to make. If we disagree with the law then we should pressure policymakers to change it. If this had been done at the time terri's husband moved on this would not be going on. I think that if we are going to be outraged that one woman is dying of starvation because a judge ruled that her feeding tube should be removed, then by God we should be losing it over the thousands who are being butchered daily in the Sudan. Unless of course we don't care because it's over there and they're Africans and Arabs. It seems this is the general feeling in Europe and here in America and I doubt that can be proved wrong.on a different note, see we're always complaining about how unfair some things are when we could have a hand in how gvt works by voting. We vote so infrequently, perhaps if we voted more we would have a govt that better represents our ideals.

I think that if we are going to be outraged that one woman is dying of starvation because a judge ruled that her feeding tube should be removed,It's the first time in American history that a judge has ordered a non-criminal put to death. 10-year kids are being arrested for trying to bring in and give her a cup of water. If this doesn't break your heart.....

ok I see, my thing though is that there are 3000-5000 (the u.n. said it's genocide-like but not quite genocide, whatever that means)people being butchered in the darfur region of the sudan and I have seen very little about that on t.v., should we be concerned or it doesn't matter coz it's a bunch of crazy arabs killing a lot of africans over there so it's cool? But then again that may not be common knowledge.Hi Ironman,You are correct in that we should be as concerned about what takes place in other places, but the inferrence that can be taken from this, or at least I get from it, is wrong--in that we shouldn't pay attention to the injustice being done to a young woman in Fl. because world leaders don't pay attention to atrocities taking place in other countries.

then by God we should be losing it over the thousands who are being butchered daily in the Sudan.I do care about Sudan, and China, and North Korea, and Africa. Problem is, those countries are not democracies. Those countries are dictatorships. America is a country of laws and those of us who believe that Terri should be kept alive believe that way because murder is against the Law. on a different note, see we're always complaining about how unfair some things are when we could have a hand in how gvt works by voting. We vote so infrequently, perhaps if we voted more we would have a govt that better represents our idealsJudges are not elected, they are appointed. Bill Clinton appointed Judge Greer. I don't care if you are a democrat or a republican. I just want to know where you stand morally. There are moral conservatives in both parties and there are moral liberals in both parties. There are people in both parties who are ungodly and there are people in both parties who are godly. We can disagree all day long on the fiscal issues of government and I wouldn't care at all or get that worked up about things. But where we can not and must not disagree is the difference between right and wrong. Any way you look at it, Terri is being murdered.

This issue is tough. If you answer yourself honestly, noone would want to be left alive in the condition that Terri is in. Having a feeding tube is the same as being left on life support. God is capable of healing Terri at this very moment with or without a feeding tube. I seriously doubt He's testing us to see if we will murder her. Without this medical technology, she wouldn't lived 15 years as a vegetable. So is it a faithless generation that has killed Terri or the removal of a feeding tube? Why is it that sick people go to doctors and not their pastor's. Shouldn't our Spirit filled pastor's be the ones we go to when we're sick? Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the pastor's, I blame all of us (including me) who believe that God can heal but we're not the vessels he using. The doctors are doing the healing the best they can and we're blaming them when someone doesn't live. Thank God for doctors because we as faith believing christians have dropped the ball.This is not intended to offend but to shed light on the real problem.In Christ,iHilam

If you answer yourself honestly, noone would want to be left alive in the condition that Terri is in.Hi iHilam! I've read your other posts and agree with you on what you've stated in those. My only disagreement with this statement would be that we are not to judge which life is worth living and which life is not worth living. If we continue the line of logic of "no one would want to be left alive in the condition Terri is in" then you have to apply it to the severly retarted, handicapped and bed ridden people of the world. I wouldn't want to be in their position but if I weren't terminally ill with death imminent then I certainly wouldn't want to be starved to death. Terri is quite "alive" contrary to the media's claims that she's in a "vegetative state". You should check out some of her videos at www.terrisfight.org.When I was 18 I was in a severe car crash and would have bled to death internally had emergency surgery not been implemented. Now, 50 years ago I would have died at the age of 18, but given medical advancements I am now 29! Did God want me to die at 18? I believe that God only works miracles when there is no other way for man to intervene and help. God reveals the Gospel through preaching and only in special cases does he reveal it through direct intervention (Paul on the Demascus road and through dreams for current day Arabs under severe Islamic gov't forms who have no chance to hear the Gospel preached for example). A feeding tube is NOT life support by the way. It is simply a straw attatched to her stomach where they insert food. A pace maker is a form of "life support". If you look at the history of this case there are doctors stating that she could be rehabilited to be able to swallow on her own. Problem is Michael Shciavo, her estranged adulterous husband, has prevented any rehabilitation since 1993.

I guess since a feeding tube is not life support, then she'll live without it. I guess the more correct statement would be, "If I were her, I would want the tube removed". I would not judge her husband. He drove all over the country trying to help her. Surgery didn't help her. And it's not going to. Surgery is not a miracle from God. God is not using doctors to perform miracles. Pharmakia (drugs) is the very thing that has replaced the Spirit filled minister. Who needs a miracle when drugs will mask the problem? If God wants her to swallow, then she'll swallow. No doctor, lawyer or judge can stop God from doing his will. It is only a faithless generation that hinders the will of God. It appears that they need to put a law in place to avoid this type of situation. I would much rather be with the Lord than to remain on this earth in her condition.

...much of Terris' health fund was used by the lawyers in the legal crusade to terminate her. I doubt the jury who awarded her that 1.2 MM health fund in 1992 realized they were financing Terris' mercy killing. The following expenditures have been paid directly from Terri's Medical Trust fund, with the approval of Judge George Greer: (Summary of expenses paid from Terri’s 1.2 Million Dollar medical trust fund.By November 1993 Petition Schiavo alleges the 1993 guardianship asset balance as $761,507.50Atty Gwyneth Stanley $10,668.05Atty Deborah Bushnell $65,607.00Atty Steve Nilson $7,404.95Atty Pacarek $1,500.00Atty Richard Pearse (GAL)$4,511.95Atty George Felos $397,249.991st Union/South Trust Bank $55,459.85 Michael Schiavo $10,929.95-------------------------------------------------Total $545,852.34There is less then $50K today. MC

I would much rather be with the Lord than to remain on this earth in her condition.If you answer yourself honestly, noone would want to be left alive in the condition that Terri is in.It is impossible to guage exactly how much suffering Terri and people like her are enduring. However, once we start thinking like this, there's gonna be a whole lot of people we'll need to euthanize. MC

To reply to the statement "if it God's will for her to swallow, then she'll swallow"The problem is that no one is allowed even to give her a drink of water from what i understand

I am very sorry if I offended anyone. That was not my intention. This is a wonderful website and I thank God for the opportunity to be a part of it. Yes, I pray for Terri and others like her. As one person will see it as murder and another as compassion. One thing is for certain, God will prevail. Please forgive me if my opinions seem different. In Christ,iHilam

swsojourner wrote:

I think that if we are going to be outraged that one woman is dying of starvation because a judge ruled that her feeding tube should be removed,It's the first time in American history that a judge has ordered a non-criminal put to death. 10-year kids are being arrested for trying to bring in and give her a cup of water. If this doesn't break your heart.....

You are correct in that we should be as concerned about what takes place in other places, but the inferrence that can be taken from this, or at least I get from it, is wrong--in that we shouldn't pay attention to the injustice being done to a young woman in Fl. because world leaders don't pay attention to atrocities taking place in other countries.Hulsey, I'm not suggesting that we stop caring (once again) I'm saying we should not forget the millions of others who endure worse things every day. I'm calling for an even measure of concern for our other brethren, that's all. If our leaders refuse to pay attention to international concerns then we need to get in their grill about it just like we have with terri's case. I mean GW Bush left his ranch early to sign this bill for her and yet when he was on the campaign trail the plight of those in darfur was never mentioned, it was given a little lip service during the debate and nothing else. The involvement of most politicians is based on what they can gain out of it in terms of popularity or legacy. We need to check ourselves to see if we are doing all this because we want to glorify ourselves in some way or if God is behind it. Consider this, even if the whole world prayed for something to happen and the Lord had made up His mind that nothing would happen, God can't be manipulated into doing what we want, He does as He pleases and we need to recognize this. You know I have found in God dealing with me He has shown me what He wants me to be concerned about and it's a lot less stuff than I used to worry about and I like that a lot more. We're more useful to God if we can stay focused on the things He places on us. We treat things as though God is unaware of what's going on. When God says "I want you to do this" we respond by saying "well what about that" maybe not in those words but in our attitude to the work. anyone kinda see what I'm getting at?

am very sorry if I offended anyone. You haven't offended anyone. This is just a dispute between fellow believers. In Christ Matt

as Christians we are spread FAR TOO THINMat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.With the greatest of respect, I don't think Christians are "spreading themselves" quite thin enough.

Hi Ironman,Good response, you made me think.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

I do care about Sudan, and China, and North Korea, and Africa. Problem is, those countries are not democracies. Those countries are dictatorships. America is a country of laws and those of us who believe that Terri should be kept alive believe that way because murder is against the Law.Ok so are you implying that if the country in question is not a democracy, then the lives of the people there are of no consequence? If so then that's your own opinion and that's cool, I would disagree with you but that's cool too. It is also murder what's happenning over there, isn't all life worth the same? or are africans, chinese, etc who live in a dictatorship not worth as much as Americans living in a democracy? If this is the case then what is the value of one such life in comparison to an American one?Judges are not elected, they are appointed. Bill Clinton appointed Judge Greer.I know that but we elect the people who appoint the judges...I don't care if you are a democrat or a republican. I just want to know where you stand morally. There are moral conservatives in both parties and there are moral liberals in both parties. There are people in both parties who are ungodly and there are people in both parties who are godly. We can disagree all day long on the fiscal issues of government and I wouldn't care at all or get that worked up about things. But where we can not and must not disagree is the difference between right and wrong. Any way you look at it, Terri is being murdered.You know this whole thing about morals is going to get a lot of people in trouble. If morals mean doing the right thing and we do that, fine. However God demands excellence out of us, which can only come from Him via the the Holy spirit. Without the holy spirit it is impossible to please God and if we are going to rely on just 'doing the right thing" then we are hellbound. If we don't seek God in Spirit and truth we have no hope. Christ said even some of those who cast out demons and prophecy in the spirit mind you will cry out "lord lord" and He will say get away from me evildoers I don't know you. Do y'all see the gravity of that statement? If we are content to be less than excellent in God's eyes, then WE ARE IN TROUBLE!!! THe devil loves morality, it's a good way to keep men from concerning themselves with what God places on men's hearts which then disrupts the whole relationship with God which is or a spiritual nature. When that relationship is disrupted, the devil can kill steal and destroy.You know what, I'm not big on morals any more. I used to be but it doesn't satisfy the longing deep down. It can't satisfy the thirst I have for God and the 1 thing that can is the SPIRIT OF GOD ITSELF and that is what's moving me. The spirit ties me to God and His desires for my life, the things that would please Him if I allowed Him to move in me and through me, that's where it's brethren. Seek the spirit of GOd in all things and let Him direct you, you can't go wrong with that. all you can do is please God after that. Someone feel me on this...please

Hi Ironman,Ok so are you implying that if the country in question is not a democracy, then the lives of the people there are of no consequence?I think what he was trying to say was not that their lives are of no consequence, but that in this country we are priveledged to live under the rule of law and that he believes Terri is being denied that.

MattI mean in the sense that we are taking on more (on an individual level) than God requires of us. Christ said we should take up our own cross which means we should take up our own responsibilities in Christ, not everyone else's. We should focus on what God wants us to do not what we think He wants us to do. In following christ we should follow where He leads and He will not lead us to fight every fight, some fights He'll place on our path so we learn to listen to Him when He says "walk away" I used to pray for any and every thing and I'd feel bad when I forgot and one day God showed me that I need not pray for everything coz there are other brethren out there praying too. It felt like the world was taken from my shoulders bro. Now I'm learning more and more how to move when the spirit tells me to move and when you've been used to jumping at everything, that's kinda hard to do. to walk away from some things, ignore other and focus on what God places before you and says "son, focus on this"see what I'm saying?

I think what he was trying to say was not that their lives are of no consequence, but that in this country we are priveledged to live under the rule of law and that he believes Terri is being denied that.I kinda figured that, it's just that the lack of concern says that their lives are of no consequence, the action in response to their plight is speaking louder than the words. I mean bro J. we should also be that much more grieved and moved that other people DON'T HAVE the pirviledge of living under just laws. Feel me?

IRONMAN wrote:Ok so are you implying that if the country in question is not a democracy, then the lives of the people there are of no consequence? Not taking sides with any view, in those other countries they don't have the rights that the Americans have. I am powerless outside of prayer to make any difference in thos countries, if I go there and have prayer vigils and placards they may kill me and it probably won't change a thing. In this case people standing up for their viewpoint is a right that those other people can't exercise. For America as a nation, they will reap the consequences of their actions by allowing or not allowing this lady to pass away. They as a nation are not accountable for decisions made by the people of China or Sudan. This is a predominantly American site, frequented by mostly, you guessed it, Americans. It does not surprise me that this has made it onto this website and sparked some interesting debates. For example the last presidential election, had all kinds of comments about Bush this and Kerry that. From a personal standpoint my bible tells me to pray for those in authourity, this world in its present form is going to end, so I don't really care who is the president of the USA or SA for that matter. Because that is my feelings sitting here in SA, how can I force my feelings onto those who are involved in it. I can't, it is the same with your comments about Sudan and China. Do you get what I mean?

Christ said we should take up our own cross which means we should take up our own responsibilities in Christ, not everyone else's.Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

9th paragraph downTerri's family is Catholic and her parent's want her to take communion but her ever loving "husband" Michael Schiavo won't allow it. (we will not argue whether or not Catholic communion is true communion or not. I am not interested in debating that in this thread). Is Terri the "vegetable" suffering? The doctor's don't even know...

I watch things in our world very closely.Especially when they seem to catch all of america up in it.Could it be that God is going to let our nations courts and thier lack of mercy be the bench mark for His Judgements on our nation?I personally think its possible. She starves to death and our nation will suffer terrible lack? or something equally harsh that mirrors the treatment she's getting.Not that its what I want but just thinking out loud?

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of ChristExactly right, we are responsible for eachother but we need to let Christ through the spirit direct what things we get involved in. We can't get involved with every single thing coz it's not practical. Each of us has things which God wants us to do and we must never neglect them. And the bearance of eachother's burdens is orchestrated by the spirit so that the work may be pleasing to God in spirit and truth. See what I mean?

I can understand wanting to wait for the Spirit's guidance to know what to focus on with EVERYDAY issues...but I absoloutely can't understand how or why you would need to wait on the Spirit to guide your direction on something as huge as the Terri Schiavo case. Does your own heart not convict you?Why give those of us a hard time who are pointing out the suffering she is enduring? Are those of us who are pointing out the injustice of what's going on in our own country giving you a guilt trip because you don't necessarily feel the Spirit has given you a burden for her? We believe this is the murder of an innocent woman sanctioned by our courts. Do you believe this is murder? As a Christian I am required to do everything within my power to lend assistance (prayers, thoughts, awareness). This is a much bigger issue than many people seem to realize. Our country is doing to Terri Schiavo what Hitler did with is "T-4" program. Research Hitler's nice "T-4" program. It's an example of what happens when the people start playing God and deciding who has enough "quality of life" to live and who should be put out of their misery. Terri Schiavo has 1939 Germany written all over it.

ZekeO I'm from Zim by the way.ZekeO wrote:

IRONMAN wrote:Ok so are you implying that if the country in question is not a democracy, then the lives of the people there are of no consequence? Not taking sides with any view, in those other countries they don't have the rights that the Americans have. I am powerless outside of prayer to make any difference in thos countries, if I go there and have prayer vigils and placards they may kill me and it probably won't change a thing. In this case people standing up for their viewpoint is a right that those other people can't exercise. For America as a nation, they will reap the consequences of their actions by allowing or not allowing this lady to pass away. They as a nation are not accountable for decisions made by the people of China or Sudan. This is a predominantly American site, frequented by mostly, you guessed it, Americans. Well Zeke when we pray according to the spirit and will of God, we may receive a revelation of what we should do regarding what we pray for. See it's easy to pray but then after God says 'he're how to fix it" then we tend not to want to go further than that. See let's say God wants you and I to go over there and demonstrate as you say and we do get killed while we're professing the word God gave us. We may not see what changes is brings but that is what God wanted so it needed to be done. The apostles and other martyrs didn't see how their deaths would shape Christianity but they laid down their lives for Christ. Some of us may be called to do so. We need to be willing to go beyond prayer and do whatever God requires and it may well be dying some day. If Christ suffered like that and He was sinless, how much more then will we suffer for the cause of the father?See Matt posted a scripture saying that we should bear one another's burdens. Which is indeed true, of course we are not to mess with every single thing, we should move as the spirit directs. This may mean affecting things in other nations. God may want you and I to touch someone on the other side of the world and we need to be willing to do what it takes. The work Christ has for us goes beyond the borders of nations. The judgement that is coming is for us all but we can and must also share in the work that Christ is doing. See what I mean.? I'm not forcing how I feel on anyone (believe it or not) I'm just doing what the spirit is instructing me to do which is to speak on these things. Now the spirit will convict whomever God needs for whatever needs to be done. That's what this boils down to for me. I guess I could say not but God has impressed upon me that every little thing He asks of us is very important so we need to make sure we not only listen but also do the word. See what I meanIt does not surprise me that this has made it onto this website and sparked some interesting debates. For example the last presidential election, had all kinds of comments about Bush this and Kerry that. From a personal standpoint my bible tells me to pray for those in authourity, this world in its present form is going to end, so I don't really care who is the president of the USA or SA for that matter. Because that is my feelings sitting here in SA, how can I force my feelings onto those who are involved in it. I can't, it is the same with your comments about Sudan and China. Do you get what I mean?

Exactly right, we are responsible for eachother but we need to let Christ through the spirit direct what things we get involved in.See Matt posted a scripture saying that we should bear one another's burdens. Which is indeed true,of course we are not to mess with every single thing , we should move as the spirit directs.Regarding caring for the burdens our Christian sisters and brothers, I would like to see where the Bible either directly or indirectly supports your statements.

Matt25 wrote:I can understand wanting to wait for the Spirit's guidance to know what to focus on with EVERYDAY issues...but I absoloutely can't understand how or why you would need to wait on the Spirit to guide your direction on something as huge as the Terri Schiavo case. Does your own heart not convict you?Why give those of us a hard time who are pointing out the suffering she is enduring? Are those of us who are pointing out the injustice of what's going on in our own country giving you a guilt trip because you don't necessarily feel the Spirit has given you a burden for her? We believe this is the murder of an innocent woman sanctioned by our courts. Do you believe this is murder? As a Christian I am required to do everything within my power to lend assistance (prayers, thoughts, awareness). This is a much bigger issue than many people seem to realize. Our country is doing to Terri Schiavo what Hitler did with is "T-4" program. Research Hitler's nice "T-4" program. It's an example of what happens when the people start playing God and deciding who has enough "quality of life" to live and who should be put out of their misery. Terri Schiavo has 1939 Germany written all over it. I need the spirit to guide me concerning that matter because anything I do concerning all things because anything I do outside the direction of the spirit is not going to glorify God because it is not rooted in Him. See the works that are done in the spirit will endure the fire of Christ anything else is wood stubble and hay and will burn up so we should focus on the instructions that come from God nothing more or less. This is it, if we are to glorify God, we must listen to and move according to His spirit, anything outside of that is fruitless in terms of pleasing God. I'm not giving anyone a hard time if you get to the root of what God has placed on me. it is to seek the spirit in all things. some things we do because we think it's the right thing but if it is not the spirit of God directing it, it can't glorify God. We can't assume that everything that is placed in our path is for us to touch because it isn't. If the spirit of God is speaking to you Matt to pray for her, then do so fervently. God has not moved me to pray for he but to speak on this. See if I prayed for her it would do no good because God already has people He has assigned to that cause already so my extra input doesn't help, it takes away from what I SHOULD be doing. see what I mean.

Regarding caring for the burdens our Christian sisters and brothers, I would like to see where the Bible either directly or indirectly supports your statements.Ok, here's what I mean can you remember everyone who ever asked you to pray for them and every thing they wanted you to pray about? do you have time enough to pray for all those things and people? Is it possible to know all the people and things that need prayer?We can't possibly do so and God knows that. We are to bear one another's burdens but we can't bear every burden, we can only take on what Christ empowers us to take one, anything more will get us into trouble. The bible is a spiritual book and we need the Holy spirit to interpret it for us. We are to bear one another's burdens in spirit, and the spirit will not place every burden out there on your shoulders. The spirit will instruct us on what burdens to take on and deal with according to the will of God. If we do more or less, then that is contrary to the wil of God. See how crucial it is to be walking in the spirit?

Regarding caring for the burdens our Christian sisters and brothers, I would like to see where the Bible either directly or indirectly supports your statements.In seeking if the bible supports my statements, seek the Holy spirit to teach you and you will find Him bearing witness to you on these things. You may find that what the spirit teaches you goes against popular theology, coz most of theology has been influcenced by intellectuals. Of course you may be branded a heretic, (I feel that way sometimes) but if the work God has for me requires that this is a part of it, then let His work be done and bring on the name callers!

In seeking if the bible supports my statements, seek the Holy spirit to teach you and you will find Him bearing witness to you on these things. You may find that what the spirit teaches you goes against popular theology, coz most of theology has been influcenced by intellectuals.Ironman you are in error dear brother:1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. And how should we test these spirits?2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness : 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretationThis is not "theology influenced by intellectuals". This is the Bible making very simple statements. You tell me to "seek the Holy Spirit to teach me". That teaching begins first with the scriptures. I have a very hard time even taking one step towards your brand of theology if you can't point me towards ANY scripture in the Bible where it even remotely implies we are to seek the Holy Spirit's guidance before helping a burdened brother or sister.

Michael Schiavo is going to cremate Terri so that no medical autopsy can be performed as her family wishes because they believe Michael Schiavo is the reason she ended up the way she did...link

John 14:25-27 25 "I have spoken these things to you while I remain with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you. 27 "Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Your heart must not be troubled or fearful. The word of God is inspired by God as you said:1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.Now as it is inspired by God in requires that the spirit of God interpret it for us for us and teach us ALL things. Our mind is carnal and can't understand the things of the spirit and so spiritual things need spiritual discernment. 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.This is not "theology influenced by intellectuals". This is the Bible making very simple statements.I know this, but I'm saying the interpretation of that and much of the bible has been influenced by the carnal mind of men. See the bible itself is breathed by God right? it has power because it came from God so for it to have power in our lives we must allow God to give it life for us. As it is inspired by the spirit of God, that same spirit is required so we can understand it. That's why Christ sent the Holy spirit to teach us all things and remind us of what we has taught us. Think about this, the spostles didn't have the bible as we have it today for them to know what God wanted, they had Christ there to teach them, and then after He left the Holy spirit was all they had and that's what inspired them and empowered them to go out and do all that they did. Concerning instruction by the Holy spiritActs 1:1-5 1 I wrote the first narrative, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach 2 until the day He was taken up, after He had given orders through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom He had chosen. 3 After He had suffered, He also presented Himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them during 40 days and speaking about the kingdom of God. 4 While He was together with them, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for the Father's promise. "This," He said, "is what you heard from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." On resisting the Holy SpiritActs 7:51-53 51 "You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are always resisting the Holy Spirit; as your forefathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They even killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become. 53 You received the law under the direction of angels and yet have not kept it."the pharisees had the various texts that were available at the time and knew them back and forth and followed the instructions therein to the letter. THe spirit that they had was one of self glorification not God-glorification. Of all people they should have recognized Christ when He came but they didn't and Christ had nothing good to say of them. They had scripture but not the spirit to interpret it and so they got it wrong. THe power of the bible's words come from the spirit which inspired it, without it the bible means nothing as evidenced by what happened with the pharisees. The bible is the lightbulb, if we don't plug it in to the source of it's power it can't shed any light.All through Acts there is much mention of the Holy Spirit and people desiring it and then being empowered by it do go out and do big things in God's name. That is the first thing we should seek. when we receive Christ He points us to the Holy spirit who is the comforter and teacher, whi can lead us to Christ, who leads us to the father.2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretationhere is the rest of that passage. 2 Peter 1:19-21 19 So we have the prophetic word strongly confirmed. You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 First of all, you should know this: no prophecy of Scripture comes from one's own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, moved by the Holy Spirit, men spoke from God.Private interpretation meaning coming from the hearts of men but from the Holy spirit sent from God. So for one to prophecy, one must be led by the spirit, to be taught the word of GOd, one needs to be taught by the spirit, to please God one must have the spirit of God. Se brother matt what is so powerful about this passage for me is that untill I saw your post, I didn't know that verse in the bible even existed. When I read it, the spirit showed me that interpretation of prophecy is a thing that come via the spirit of God and when I read the word AFTER that, it was confirmed. See we can't go into the word of God without the spirit of God to guide us and teach us because the enemy can attach and we won't even knwo it. 6 Now without faith it is impossible to please God, for the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him. Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit. The holy spirit can't be ducked or overstepped if we want to have anything to do with God. Of late we have kinda pushed Him into the backburner or out of the picture completely. Without the spirit of God to show us how to please God all we do instead angers God. It's one or the other, either what we do pleases God or angers Him, there is no middle ground. All these things are not coming from my head, perhaps that's what makes them difficuly even for me at times. When things come from God himself via the spirit there is an unmistakable gravity they have. God has been directing me this whole time because someone somewhere on S.I. or beyond needed this, I also needed it. Perhaps it was you or someone else, I don't know. God just said speak forth as I instruct you and that's what I've been doing. I'm not saying anyone should jump on my brand of theology coz first of all it isn't mine. This is God speaking to me and through me. That may sound weird but that's just what it is. I'm not the author of these words so I won't be the one to vindicate them, God Himself will take care of that. I'm but a messenger who also needs to heed this message, perhaps more so than anyone else. It sort of puts me at odds with others out there, but then again God warned me of this but He said He would hold up His work and He would see His work through till the end.You tell me to "seek the Holy Spirit to teach me". That teaching begins first with the scriptures. I have a very hard time even taking one step towards your brand of theology if you can't point me towards ANY scripture in the Bible where it even remotely implies we are to seek the Holy Spirit's guidance before helping a burdened brother or sister. It's not me telling you, its God telling us all. I'm not exempt from this nor have I grasped it fully, but God is showing me more and more each day. Some things God places in front of us to leave alone so we can learn to trust that He has seen it and chosesn someone else to deal with it. It's a part of faith, knowing and believing that God knows all and sees all and has all things in His hands

Well we could all debate this until Christ's return and dig up every scripture to justify our personal opinions, but bottom line I personally feel is that God is in control and her death "if this is what God chooses" will not be in vain and I feel it will be used as an example in all the other cases in which people are in this situation and my help keep someone else alive. I don't know what God's intentions are as his ways are not our ways we can't even begin to comprehend why he does what he does all we can hope and pray is we might be here to see the outcome and if not maybe we can ask him when we get to heaven.

MrBillPro wrote:...bottom line I personally feel is that God is in ...her death "...this is what God chooses" I know, this is a bit naughty of me, but hey selective hearing seems to be the order of the day on this one, so I thought I would create my own stupid controversy.This is just a very sad thing!!! :cry:

This is just a very sad thing!!! indeed it is zeke.

Ironman wrote:God has not moved me to pray for her but to speak on this. See if I prayed for her it would do no good because God already has people He has assigned to that cause already so my extra input doesn't help, it takes away from what I SHOULD be doing. see what I mean.I am trying really hard to understand how it has been so difficult to offer one solitary prayer for a defensless woman who is being starved to death in Florida. Indeed you have spent more time debating with us because we ARE praying for her and we are raising awareness. If you look back over your posts, your very first one was antagonistic against the very first post which was that someone asked us to pray for her. I'm having a very difficult time understanding your motive. I mean, why make a comment at all? All of your posts have been about defending yourself for why you're not going to offer a prayer for her because you are so burdened by all of your other burdens. Sounds like the spirit of selfishness to me...Or maybe you don't believe what is happening to Terri is actually murder?In your long response about the Holy Spirtit you have provided absoloutely no evidence that we as Christians are to await the Holy Spirit's guidance before we pray for a burdened brother or sister. What you have done is prove that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all Truth of knowledge about Christ. When Luke writes the Gospel of Luke, he doesn't say "the Holy Spirit led me to write this..." No. Luke says:Luk 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, So, Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke not because he was necessarily led by the Holy Spirit, but because it "seemed good". Now, when Luke sat down to write the Gospel of Luke, the Holy Spirit guided him in rememberence and all Truth about the events that took place and about Jesus.

Ironman wrote:All these things are not coming from my head, perhaps that's what makes them difficult even for me at times. When things come from God himself via the spirit there is an unmistakable gravity they have. God has been directing me this whole time because someone somewhere on S.I. or beyond needed this, I also needed it. Perhaps it was you or someone else, I don't know. God just said speak forth as I instruct you and that's what I've been doing.1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. The Holy Spirit is guiding me. And I am not confused by what he is telling me. He is telling me that your interpretation regarding this issue is incorrect. The Scriptures and the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict one another. There is a clear command for us to carry one another's burdens in scripture. There is nowhere in scripture a command that says, "the Holy Spirit will guide you to know which of your brother's burdens to carry and which one's not to carry". By offering a prayer and raising awareness of Terri Schiavo I am helping lift her burden. It just "seems good to me". The Holy Spirit guides me in knowing what things are good and pleasing to God and what things are not. The Holy Spirit is the comforter while I am living the Christian life. The Holy Spirit is not passive. If it is within my power to help another Christian lift a burden, the Holy Spirit convicts me to do so. I am not sinless and I am fully aware that all Christians commit the sin of omission. Christianity is not a passive religion in the area of helping others. To be a follower of Christ is to be servant of all. It means denying yourself, losing yourself, sacrificing all that you have and are so that you can love your neighbor as yourself. Indeed, too few Christians are willing to expend themselves to the end to help fellow brother's and sisters. We are selfish and that's why we say things like "I will wait on the Spirit to tell me if I should pray for Terri or not".

I am trying really hard to understand how it has been so difficult to offer one solitary prayer for a defensless woman who is being starved to death in Florida. Indeed you have spent more time debating with us because we ARE praying for her and we are raising awareness. If you look back over your posts, your very first one was antagonistic against the very first post which was that someone asked us to pray for her. I'm having a very difficult time understanding your motive. I mean, why make a comment at all? All of your posts have been about defending yourself for why you're not going to offer a prayer for her because you are so burdened by all of your other burdens. Sounds like the spirit of selfishness to me...Or maybe you don't believe what is happening to Terri is actually murder?The reason I haven't been asked to pray for her is because you are. Do you see know what this is all about. God has moved you to do so and moved me to do something else. That is the purpose of the body of believers, each of us have different responsibilities and we have to stick to them. My prayer will not change anything or bear fruit because it is not God's will for me to pray for her at this time but your prayers will be some of those which God will respond to. What's happenning to Terri is sad indeed but worse things are happenning out there to others and yet you are not moved as I am to pray for them. This is because God has motivated you in the spirit for this thing and me for another. See now?I'm not burdened by anything except that which God places on me. The same applies to you and us all, we should be aware of what God places on our hearts and tend to it fervently. In your long response about the Holy Spirtit you have provided absoloutely no evidence that we as Christians are to await the Holy Spirit's guidance before we pray for a burdened brother or sister. What you have done is prove that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all Truth of knowledge about Christ. When Luke writes the Gospel of Luke, he doesn't say "the Holy Spirit led me to write this..." No. Luke says:Luk 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,So, Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke not because he was necessarily led by the Holy Spirit, but because it "seemed good". Now, when Luke sat down to write the Gospel of Luke, the Holy Spirit guided him in rememberence and all Truth about the events that took place and about JesusThe whole inspiration for luke to write the gospel with his name came forth from the Holy spirit, he may not have said that but there is no way he could have concieved it without God sanctioning it or impressing it upon him. What I am getting at, what the spirit is impressing on me and us all is that not all prayers are fruitful, not all things we do are fruitful. They may seem good enough but when God judges them, there won't withstand the fire. What is good and fruitful and can withstand the fire is that which proceeds from the spirit of God. This is what this is all about. This whole issue about terri was a thing that God used to show me this. I thought once that I shouldpray for any and everything. I began to realize that this was too much to bear and that we all have our part to play in this and we must stick to that.It's not that I'm against praying for her or doing stuff for her, the spirit is impressing on me and us all to be weary of why we do things, the bottom line being is it is not a thing inspired by the spirit, it will bear no fruit. This is what it's about, our motivation for action. Do we want to glorify God our ourselves.bro matt, The Lord impressed this on me, and so I did as He asked. I knew well enough what kinda debate this would begin and what people reading would think of me.You don't have to try and understand it, I never asked you to. In fact I'm not trying to convince anyone, that's notmy concern, my concern is to speak whatever God places on me in spirit and when my part is done, I must move on to the next thing God has coz He will finish whatever He uses me to start. And this funny enough is where my job ends concerning this, I pray all the graces and mercies of God on you brother Matt. God has taught me much in this also using you. God bless you!

Ok we can agree to disagree. God BlessMatt

Read all about it right here. No spin, no conservative or liberal slant. Just the facts, as presented to the Courts and Mr. Bush on the matter. if you take time to study this with an open mind you will find your thoughts changing.http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf

Go to terrisfight.org for starters (website run by her immediate family)Oh yeah...I'm sure there's TONS of impartial information there...And as for Drudge and Newsmax...anyone who relies on them for impartial reporting has a box they need to step out of.

She is not and has never been on life supportSee, this is what I mean by a lot of misinformation floating around regarding this case. That is simply untrue. After Terri's collapse on Feb. 25th 1990 she WAS placed on life support due to all the damage she suffered.Again, I ask EVERYONE interested in this case to READ THE FACTS presented in the Wolfson report.http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdfSome interesting tidbits from this report..beginning on page 8:The clinical records within the massive case file indicate that Theresa was not responsive to neurological and swallowing tests SHE RECEIVED REGULAR AND INTENSE PHYSICAL, OCCUMPATIONAL AND SPEECH THERAPIES emphasis mine. So much for the theory that Michal pushed her down the stairs and did nothing to try to help her.There is no question that complete trust, MUTUAL caring, explicit love and a common goal of caring for and rehabilitating Theresa, were the SHARED INTENTIONS OF MICHAEL SHIAVO AND THE SCHINDLERS.emphasis again mine, and again we're blowing away the fabricated lie that some media in this country wants to have us believe; that Michael is some kind of monster who never did or doesn't care for his wife.In Autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing, formal diagnoses of persistent vegitative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalmic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in Californa CARING FOR THERESA during a period of several months...Emphasis mine again and again we're dispelling some myths about Michael's care for Theresa.In 1993, the malpractice action concluded in Theresa and Michael's favor, resulting in a two element award: More than $750,000 in economic damages for Theresa and a lost of consortim award (non economic damages) of $300,000 to Michael. The court established a trust found for Theresa's financial award, with SouthTrust Bank as the Guardian and independent trustee. This fund was meticulously managed and accounted for AND MICHAEL SCHIAVO HAD NO CONTROL OVER ITS USE.emphasis mine.OOF! Another Newsmax/Druge spin/lie/theory bites the dust! Michael in fact, did NOT spend tons of Theresa's trust money trying to get her killed or on court fees...Keep reading the report...I defy you to approach it and study it with an open heart and come away thinking the same.

Angyl,If Terri was on "life support" then please explain why she is STILL ALIVE AFTER 11 DAYS of coming off "life support". Here's an article addressing the errors of the Wolfson report from a Christian based organization. I suppose you will discredit them because they are biased towards life?linkIt's interesting that you discredit terri'sfight.org because it is run by her immediate family. They believe she is not in a vegetative state as do MANY doctors, lawyers, politicians and citizens. Have you seen the videos of her? Do you truly believe she is a "vegetable" and should be "put out of her misery"? It's unfortunate that you are siding with Michael Schiavo over her immediate family who have known her all her life. To discredit something solely because it comes from her family who does have doctors on their side is erroneous at best. Have you seen the latest news about the convicted murderer/rapist who was sentenced to death but later was resentenced to life because the jurors consulted the bible in deciding his fate?Judge changes sentence because Jurors read Bible. Are you aware of the insanity of discrediting a whole group of people for "bias" solely because of their religious faith? Does being a Christian mean you can't make objective judgements about moral and immoral topics? You do realize this is the tragedy of our day don't you? If you are a Christian and you take a stance on something you are automatically discredited because of your "bias". More importantly, do you agree in the way they are letting her die (by starving her to death)?? Would you have rather seen her put to death another way? See my heart is quite open Angyl. This woman is being starved to death. Do you consider that this is a Christian thing to do? What do you honestly believe God thinks about her being starved to death? Don't you think if we were going to let her die we should just give her lethal injection? WHY STARVE HER TO DEATH ANGYL?? What is your excuse for excusing those actions?? My heart is quite open to the suffering of this woman and her family (well her family minus her adulterous husband Michael Schiavo who decided to wait 7 years before revealing Terri's death wish). I am lifting her and them up in prayer. Here's another excellent article on the Schiavo StoryTerri Schiavo storyIt mentions the Wolfson report. Please take your own advice and read it with an "open heart". In response to Wolfson's comments about the settlement money:In 1993, the malpractice action concluded in Theresa and Michael's favor, resulting in a two element award: More than $750,000 in economic damages for Theresa and a lost of consortim award (non economic damages) of $300,000 to Michael. The court established a trust found for Theresa's financial award, with SouthTrust Bank as the Guardian and independent trustee. This fund was meticulously managed and accounted for AND MICHAEL SCHIAVO HAD NO CONTROL OVER ITS USE.Notice that Wolfson doesn't give a detailed account of how the money was spent? Notice that he just says "meticulously managed"? Here's where $545,000 of Theresa's $700,000 settlement went(all of these are Michael Schiavo's attorneys, and most importantly notice that George Felos has rec'd $400,000):Atty. Gwyneth Stanley: $10,668.05 Atty. Deborah Bushnell: $65,607 Atty. Steve Nilson: $7,404.95 Atty. Pacarek: $1,500 Atty. Richard Pearse (GAL): $4,511.95 Atty. George Felos: $397,249.99 Other - 1st Union/South Trust Bank: $55,459.85 Michael Schiavo: $10,929.95 Total: $545,852.34"Meticulously maintained"? Please. Definitely sounds like you have some political bias of your own over there when you make comments like:Another Newsmax/Druge spin/lie/theory bites the dust!

So much for the theory that Michal pushed her down the stairs and did nothing to try to help her.WHAT HAPPENED TO FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE?? Actions speak FAR louder than words. Michael Schiavo has been living with another woman for the last 10 years. I have a VERY hard time believing that a man who has fathered 2 children with a woman in an adulterous relationship has his current wife's best interest at heart. Wolfson may approve of Terri's husband's actions but as Christians we should know better. Why is this man living with another woman? Why hasn't he stayed with Terri FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE??? You will never convince me he has her best interest at heart. Especially with the allegations of possible domestic abuse and with former doctors stating that they had found possible evidence of abuseTerri's actual bone scan

If Terri was on "life support" then please explain why she is STILL ALIVE AFTER 11 DAYS of coming off "life support".I didn't say she's STILL on life support. I said the assertation that she "has never been on life support" is flat out wrong. She has. Immediately after her accident it was necessary to save her life.They believe she is not in a vegetative state as do MANY doctors, lawyers, politicians and citizens. And there are just as many (more in fact) doctors, lawyers, politicians and citizens (70% of US citizens according to every poll if you want to use that ridiculous group as some sort of qualifier) who think she IS in a vegitative state. Your point?It's unfortunate that you are siding with Michael Schiavo over her immediate family who have known her all her life.There's nothing unfortunate about it. Scripture tells us that she is bonded to her husband in a way she never was to her own family. The two of them ARE ONE! It is unfortunate that YOU want to disregard scripture and place her parents wishes above that of her husband which God says they are joined together...one mind, one body. You attempt to set an EXTRAORDINARLY DANGEROUS PRECIDENT in this country by wanting to allow courts to tell loving spouses that their parents' wishes will override theirs whenever it comes down to it.Why does scripture talk of "leaving their father and mother and cleaving." if we should just go ahead and value parents wishes over spouses? No, no...it's not unfortunate that I side with Michael..it's unfortunate that you are siding with her parents.Are you aware of the insanity of discrediting a whole group of people for "bias" solely because of their religious faith? Yes, and are you likewise aware of the hypocrisy in what you're stating here? You're doing the exact same thing, but on the other side. You cheered when Congress tried to legislate against a husband's wishes for his wife. Is this the country you want to live in?? For all legal intents and purposes Terri was found to have said she would not want to live like this. MOST AMERICANS...PROBABLY YOURSELF INCLUDED FEEL THE SAME WAY... Yet in hypocrisy at its finest, I've seen Christian after Christian admit that they would not want to be kept alive in this condition...but I don't believe Terri said that...she should be forced to stay alive.HUH???That makes no sense whatsoever.More importantly, do you agree in the way they are letting her die (by starving her to death)?? Would you have rather seen her put to death another way? No. I don't like the idea that she's being starved to death, but there are severe ethical concerns to killing her. For all intents and purposes, if Terri were walking, talking and perfectly "Normal" and decided to "starve" herself to death this would be a non-issue. Well legally speaking Terri has expressed her wishes to be LEFT TO DIE in this condition. That means starvation. It was her choice and I'm more for leaving her to it than leaving her "alive" like this. If I were in her condition I consider a week or two of starvation a pitiful price to pay to get to meet the Lord rather than wallowing in that kind of "life"style for decades more.Do you consider that this is a Christian thing to do? Do you consider denying someone their free will to kill themselves the Christian thing to do? Why? Not even God does that. If someone wants to shoot themselves in the head, after counseling and attemting to stop them, ultimately it's their choice and there's nothing you can do to stop them. Terri has chosen to die. Leave her to it.WHY STARVE HER TO DEATH ANGYL?? See above. Because it's "LETTING HER DIE" (that's a statement of fact) as opposed to killing her.And I see you posting more opinion... PURE OPINION and trying to pass it off as fact. Where do you get those numbers for how Terri's money was spent? And if, indeed it is proven that it WAS spent that way then who's fault is that? It's not Michael's...he had NO CONTROL OVER IT If the trustees decided, for whatever reason, to support the husband in his endavors...seeing as he was married to Terri, then that's their choice, not Michael's blame.As I've told my wife, I'll be glad when Terri's dead. You kept mentioning your "open heart"...here's mine. When she's gone to be with the Lord I'll be glad she's out of her misery...will you? When she's gone, I'll be glad the nation can get back to focusing on the greater picture rather than doggedly chewing over this poor woman while so many thousands (millions) others suffer and starve IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!! This silly crusade needs to end and the best ending will be with Terri meeting Jesus face to face and us going on with our lives and trying to improve this country as a whole.Answer this for me, Matt:How many people died and went to Hell because of the Christians camped outside a woman's hospice when they could have been out soulwinning?By the way, didja hear the story about the lady whose grandfather was dying in Terri's same hospice and she, because of all the security needed outside (protesting Chrsitians, ya know) missed his last moments? True story. Why not go tell her to her face all this hooplah over Terri was worth her loss of those precious moments?God's primary concern is NOT Terri's condition or her starvation. It is, and ALWAYS HAS BEEN the gathering of souls into His kingdom.Big picture...far bigger than Terri. Try focusing on it.

You will never convince me he has her best interest at heart.Well then there's absolutely no point in continuing the discussion, is there, Matt? :-)God bless, Brother and see ya.

How many people died and went to Hell because of the Christians camped outside a woman's hospice when they could have been out soulwinning?I'll answer it for you..how many people went to hell while you were twiddling your thumbs here ?ridiculousKN

I am amazed at how many Christians draw fine distinctions between life and death. We "allow" someone to die, which seems so passive by withholding the means of life, which is so active. We could call it a sin of omission.I have an audio essay on this subject on my website (http://adamchristiansen.org/essays/index.html) where I describe my own move from supporting "living wills" to rejection of the assumptions that we make concerning life and death issues.In Christ,adam@adamchristiansen.orgwww.adamchristiansen.org

There's nothing unfortunate about it. Scripture tells us that she is bonded to her husband in a way she never was to her own family. The two of them ARE ONE! It is unfortunate that YOU want to disregard scripture and place her parents wishes above that of her husband which God says they are joined together...one mind, one body. You attempt to set an EXTRAORDINARLY DANGEROUS PRECIDENT in this country by wanting to allow courts to tell loving spouses that their parents' wishes will override theirs whenever it comes down to it.Yes, and in God’s eyes adultery dissolves that bond:Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. I'm the one at odds with scripture? It's hard for me to understand your lack of perception on this issue. And there are just as many (more in fact) doctors, lawyers, politicians and citizens (70% of US citizens according to every poll if you want to use that ridiculous group as some sort of qualifier) who think she IS in a vegetative state. Your point?The majority of Americans also believe abortion should be legal. For 200 years the majority believed slavery was OK and supported segregation. The majority of America also profess to be Christians, although America resembles modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. Wasn't it Billy Graham's wife who said God would have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah if he doesn't judge America (obviously implying America is enveloped in open sin). But in response to those "objective" polls, you may find these articles interesting:ABC Schiavo Poll DistortedSchiavo Poll DistortionAlso, The CNN/Gallup Poll stated that 60% sided with Schiavo's husband on the issue. 70% disagreed with Congress intervening with the judicial process. Those are two separate issues. I don't believe I'm going out on a limb here when I choose to believe that more than a few people have relied solely on the big 3 news networks for info on this case. And I know I'm not going out on a limb to suggest that the major news networks have given mainly one side of this issue. There have been numerous articles written about this and I'm sure you are proficient enough to Google it. I didn't say she's STILL on life support. I said the assertation that she "has never been on life support" is flat out wrong. She has. Immediately after her accident it was necessary to save her life.THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING SHE WAS NOT ON LIFE SUPPORT WHEN THE JUDGE FORCED WITHHOLDING OF FOOD AND WATER. Because it's "LETTING HER DIE" (that's a statement of fact) as opposed to killing her.You are on very shaky ground here. We're going on 12 days and she's still alive. Starving someone to death is not "letting them die". Starving someone to death is killing them! Punishment or death by starvation has been outlawed in every civilized country in the world and is outlawed by the Geneva convention. It's why we have lethal injection or electric chairs vs letting death row inmates die by starvation. If you were to withhold food from a baby or an elderly person in a nursing home who is bound to a wheelchair and can not adequately feed themselves you certainly wouldn't make the same argument. Terri's body was completely self sufficient other than the process of getting food down her throat into her stomach to be digested. Her parents want rehabilitation but MICHAEL SCHIAVO HAS ALLOWED NO REHABILITATION SINCE 1993. Before he stopped the rehabilitation she was marked by the doctors as IMPROVING. You should scroll back through these posts and read Hulsey's timeline which he posted. Very enlightening. For all legal intents and purposes Terri was found to have said she would not want to live like this. MOST AMERICANS...PROBABLY YOURSELF INCLUDED FEEL THE SAME WAY... Yet in hypocrisy at its finest, I've seen Christian after Christian admit that they would not want to be kept alive in this condition...Thank you so much for deciding what I or any of my family would want if I were in Terri’s position. This is after all what’s at the heart of the issue. You and all of the other Solomons of our day deciding Terri doesn’t meet a certain “quality of life” standard so let’s just “let her die”. Who does life belong to? You? Me? Oh that’s right, God owns all life: 1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. I am not an advocate for keeping terminally ill patients where death is immediately imminent without life support (you know they type…you flip a switch and they’re gone in 3 seconds). I do believe that some can be overzealous in their desire to keep loved ones alive when there really is nothing more to hope for. Terri’s case is not one of those cases and anyone doing the research with an open heart can see that. She was expected to live into her 70’s and there are doctors (the family has 33 of them named) who believe she can improve upon her condition.How many people died and went to Hell because of the Christians camped outside a woman's hospice when they could have been out soulwinning?swsojourner answered that one for meWell then there's absolutely no point in continuing the discussion, is there, Matt? I said you can't convince me of her husband's motives. We are still debating the issue of her being allowed to starve to death. As I've told my wife, I'll be glad when Terri's dead.Her condition is tragic. Your attitude towards her family who wants her to stay alive and anyone else who advocates not starving her to death is even more so. For all intents and purposes, if Terri were walking, talking and perfectly "Normal" and decided to "starve" herself to death this would be a non-issue. Well legally speaking Terri has expressed her wishes to be LEFT TO DIE in this condition. That means starvation. It was her choice and I'm more for leaving her to it than leaving her "alive" like this.Oh really she has? Please Google this or read back over Hulsey's timeline so you can learn when the "death wish" was brought into the equation (1997) by her adulterous husband. Everything about Michael Schiavo's motives are questionable and to hide behind "well the judge believed him" is a joke. American judges are making horrible decisions everyday in this country. Judge Greer has made quite a few horrible decisions himself. One led to the death of an innocent woman. Please read: The all wise Judge Greer

For those of you who keep stating things like "the Law says this" and "legally they're still married" and "the courts have determined she's in PVT and needs to die"....it is awfully easy to compare that attitude with the attitude of the Pharisees and Sadducees don't you think?Was not their main flaw that they were incessantly adherent to the Law but their hearts were always far from God's will?? Was that not always the Pharisees main complaint with Jesus? Everytime we see a Pharisee or Sadducee enter the picture they were lashing out at Jesus because he didn't follow the Law. Forgive me, but I can't help but see a striking parallel here.

whoa...