Today's God is far too small

Why is it God doesn't seem to be doing big things like He did back in the day?

I think a better question is why aren't we seeking God like men did in the past? God hasn't gotten lazy... we have.

Eli_Barnabas wrote:I think a better question is why aren't we seeking God like men did in the past? God hasn't gotten lazy... we have.My sentiments exactly. WE have traded impartation for entertainment and anointing for therepy. One reason we think that perhaps God is not moving or willing to move as he did in times of old is because our spirits have been sedated with entertainment (before anyone responds, I am not condeming entertainment, just asking why so much of it has to leave God out). I'll be the first to admit I need to magnify the Lord. I have more faith that a dollar is gonna have the nessecary backing to buy me a soda than i do that the creator of my immortal spirit will meet my needs if I'll have faith in Him. I'm not trying to hijack this thread or anything but think about when David faced Goliath. Saul and tyhe other had to try and convince Daivd that God couldn't help him defeat that giant, while many of our sermons are meant to try to convince us that God CAN defeat that giant. I agree with Eli 100%--I, me, if it falls on you too , we, are oft times lazy. God is ready and willing, we just need to magnify Him in our lives. (We cannot make God any bigger, we can make Him bigger in our lives though)

EliI agree, we have gotten lazy but we look back at how God moved in those days with such awe and wonder, do we not want to experience that ourselves or have we relegated that to just being a thing which God doesn't do any more?

I agree with Eli 100%--I, me, if it falls on you too , we, are oft times lazy. God is ready and willing, we just need to magnify Him in our lives. (We cannot make God any bigger, we can make Him bigger in our lives though)Or maybe I should ask, do we REALLY want to experience God like say Noah, Joseph, Saul (Paul) or David? or are we content in just seing on the outside looking in?

I agree with everything said.We depend on ourselves and the almighty dollar more than anything else.Was it Ravenhill that said "Most of men's prayers could be answered by a Banker or a Millionare."?It seems though that I have heard of some wonderous things happening in other countries with Missionaries.

IRONMAN wrote:Or maybe I should ask, do we REALLY want to experience God like say Noah, Joseph, Saul (Paul) or David? or are we content in just seing on the outside looking in?That's a good question! I am forced to wonder it myself when i read the awesome accounts of our God in the scriptures. Do we rally want what we say we want or are we "patty caking"? it costs what it costs, there is never a close out sale or clearence on it. I have to ask my self, am i willing to pay the price? Are we? I find my self alot of times pleading with God, "i believe but help my unbelief". I am not content to be on the outside looking in--we need to be on the inside and HAVE HIM on the inside!

Ironman, I believe that not wanting to see God move IS laziness as well.God can move! He will move! I believe it! So, now I will move!

Was it Ravenhill that said "Most of men's prayers could be answered by a Banker or a Millionare."?you know it's bad when your prayers may be answered with "if we win the lotto..."

That's a good question! I am forced to wonder it myself when i read the awesome accounts of our God in the scriptures. Do we rally want what we say we want or are we "patty caking"?You know it's funny you should say "patty caking" I thought of that expression earlier in reference to our relationships with God. Are we concerned with our own comfort too much? Where do our sympathies lie? WIth God, are we sympathetic to His will or are we more sympathetic to our own comforts? by the way I started this discussion again in the "scriptures and doctrine" section thinking perhaps it is better suited there.

Elinow I will moveThat is the proverbial billion dollar question...will I move?

Here's a thought to mull over... God never stopped moving, it is evident that by the fact that some one shared the Gospel with us and we were saved. However, the closer you are to the source, the more quickly you revieve. Think of it in a parable form:There was a an older couple that had been married nearly 50 years and throughout thier marriage they always owned a single cab pick up truck with a bench seat in the front. One evening after supper they went for a drive. The husband was quietly driving, as he always did, and the wife began to muse as she rested her head on her arm that was leaned aginst the passenger side window; "Dear, do you remember when we first started courting? You were so loving! You sure have changed! Why when we were courting and even after we married, you always used to put your arm around me while we drove around, you don't do that anymore.. . " interuppting her without missing a beat he glared at her with a 1/2 smile and said "i haven't moved."Let's get closer to the source.

Let's get closer to the source.how close to we want to be to the source?

All up in it! :-P

Psa 96:9 O worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth. I don't want to appear divisive but I will share my personal beliefs on this topic. The closer I get to Almighty God, the more I feel so completely unworthy to know Him. Edwards talks about 'evangelical humility' and my response to God is often one of terror and awe. I am also honestly afraid of the price to be paid. I think my best thoughts on this are the eyes of Jesus Christ on the day of judgement; I can only begin to comprehend and feel the majesty of His glory when I will look into the eyes that love the entire world. I am ashamed and dismayed at the ineffectual nature of my prayer and worship because it lacks power, the power of heaven. I can only seem to know this absence because of it's lack of presence rather than as evidence of the unseen.I can feel my flesh fighting the cross and the world will not be silent long enough for me to hear His voice. It's not that God is too small, it's that I'm too large and I'm afraid to be truly broken. Thankfully the Holy Spirit prays for me in ways and with words I can not know and somehow that comforts me. I want to know God but it seems so hard to forget myself and that for me is why God has such a small part of my life. Just my personal observation and opinion.RichHebs. 12:28-29 Wherfore we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, therefore let us have grace, that we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.

All up in it!AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!

RichI certainlly admire your candor in all this. God certainly wants us to be honest with ourselves and with Him. When we pray it is important to remember God knows what we need already. We need to ask Him to lead us in that prayer so we can pray according to HIS will, so we seek after what He wants us to seek for, that way we can't go wrong. We also tend to pt God in a box and thus limit His ability to work in our lives. We should be so much more open concerning what God can and will do, we miss out on so much because we simply won't believe because it is outside our comfort zone. If God can kept Daniel from being eaten by lions, He can do the same for me.

Why is it God doesn't seem to be doing big things like He did back in the day?Simple, we stopped truly believing Jesus Christ is truly alive from the grave and stopped treating Him as Lord. When the idea today is that we need to have Christian Coffee Shops in order to have "real" ministry, God doesn't have to backup such nonsense with signs and wonders. The only power a Christian Coffee Shop will see is in the power of its espresso.

I have the pleasure to host a good many foriegn nationals who come to Ohio. Many are coming from very presecuted areas in India, Africa, ect...Specific locations with held.God is still on the move in power in these countries. What we have in the western cultures is basically flawed christianity---or what many Africans call Amercanized christianity.That's not a complement.Our walk of faith doesn't cost us anything, or should I say it doesn't cost most of us anything.So is God doing big things, yes. Here in America? I believe He will but He's waiting for us.At what cost?That is what I've been searching out with greater intensity as the last year has pasted.There has been in me a growing dissatisfication with the statis-quo. The same as what I see in many here on this site.All I can say is keep on pressing into God until all heaven breaks loose here in western culture.

KingJimmy Said:The only power a Christian Coffee Shop will see is in the power of its espresso.LOL thats just a great line bro.

I will write y'all back when I get home in a few min...

Simple, we stopped truly believing Jesus Christ is truly alive from the grave and stopped treating Him as Lord. When the idea today is that we need to have Christian Coffee Shops in order to have "real" ministry, God doesn't have to backup such nonsense with signs and wonders. The only power a Christian Coffee Shop will see is in the power of its espresso.We have indeed substituted the truth of God for which speaks vehemently against the world system for foolishness which fits into and in some cases justifies the world system.Power of espresson you say :-P lol!!!

I have the pleasure to host a good many foriegn nationals who come to Ohio. Many are coming from very presecuted areas in India, Africa, ect...Specific locations with held.God is still on the move in power in these countries. What we have in the western cultures is basically flawed christianity---or what many Africans call Amercanized christianity.That's not a complement.Our walk of faith doesn't cost us anything, or should I say it doesn't cost most of us anything.So is God doing big things, yes. Here in America? I believe He will but He's waiting for us.At what cost?That is what I've been searching out with greater intensity as the last year has pasted.There has been in me a growing dissatisfication with the statis-quo. The same as what I see in many here on this site.All I can say is keep on pressing into God until all heaven breaks loose here in western culture.The time is fast-approaching when Christianity will be outlawed and the persecution begins. Those who signed up believeing that it would be a big picnic will probably opt out then leaving the ones who are about God's work in the most real sense. Now concerning the breaking loose of all of heaven on our culture, the magnitude of power that will come down will be unprecedented as will the judgement. Let us not be found wanting. Rather than sit around thumb in mouth we need to seek after God more desperately than ever before.ok it's nappy time

dohzman wrote: At what cost?Well, I can only say this. My cost is nothing, anything it takes from me I have already been given twice already. I guess the question is am I still willing to part with it?... I pray so, though I can't say my willingness bares a very good track record.Just like hunting through the chocolate box to find the caramels, I know there are many good Christians left in this country. Its just too bad Jesus is the only one with an index sheet.

Just like hunting through the chocolate box to find the caramels, I know there are many good Christians left in this country. Its just too bad Jesus is the only one with an index sheet.We have access to Jesus and so He can lead us to eachother via the Holy spirit.

Hey, that would be a perspective on western society and their level of belief. go to a persecuted country where you can't afford to be half hearted (ie lukewarm) and then you will see great miracles et cetera. The western church is the church of laodicea. It is the richest and most lukewarm. we don't see god moving because we are too fat and complacent and proud to learn from the uneducated and unsophisticated underdeveloped and under privileged churches (eg Brother Yun).

go to a persecuted country where you can't afford to be half heartedwe don't see god moving because we are too fat and complacent and proud to learn from the uneducated and unsophisticated underdeveloped and under privileged churches (eg Brother Yun).While I do understand the nature of the term "we" to not be all-inclusive, that was the point behind the chocolate comment. Not everybody in this country is fat and lazy. There are many, many American missionaries, and we still are the #1 provider fiscally to overseas projects. Loren Cunningham's brainchildren (Mercy Ships and Youth With A Mission) are out there. I myself have met quite a few long-haul missionaries... the majority of which are American.Yes, this country needs a revival. Yes, the prophets speak. Yes, there is much room for improvement. Does that mean God does not smile?And before anyone even attempts to claim this lukewarm stuff, I have to ask a very specific question. Have you ever stepped foot on foreign soil while spreading the gospel? Have you sat in an African church service? Do you KNOW what you're talking about? Well, sir, I do not know for certain what all of Africa thinks and sees. I don't know how it all moves spiritually. But I do know this: I admire many Godly people in my own backyard. And African zeal and the movement of the spirit are not always synonymous. I can say that for a fact - I have been there.*Edit: I need to leave with this note. If you wish to continue this thread - this topic - if you wish to hold it in your heart, please ask this question. Are you convicted of the U.S., or are you condemning it? Are you sure?

The western church is the church of laodiceaBroad strokes? ;-) MC

This is just me folks ...But when anyone asks the question regarding why our God in the OT, and the beginning of the NT doesn't show Himself presently like He did back then, usually meaning thru "signs and wonders", miracles if you will, it always brings to my mind this scripture ...Matt.12:39"But He answered and said unto them, an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign" ...Are we guilty of having become an evil and adulterous generation? ... i personally think so, and have said before that i think the reason why the "name it-claim it / health and prosperity" herecies found such fertile ground in the Church is because we've become sick and tired of faithing our way thru on faith alone and have become desperately in need of a "sign" ... A sign of what? ... A sign that God is actually there ... We want Him to unmistakably physically prove Himself to us, that He exist, and so even if He don't part a Red Sea for us, or raise Lazurus, if He'd put miraculously cure our cancer, give us that fat house or car that we'd never be able to get on our own, make us wealthy out of the clear blue, then we'd have some sure sign that He's there, that He's real, or as old doubting Thomas said, "If i could but see, and put my finger in the holes in His hand, then i'll believe" ... But what did Jesus say to Thomas who'd already seen Him do countless miracles in His living, but couldn't believe that He was raised from the dead? ... John.20:29"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed".Whether we like it our not folks the "they" Jesus spoke of is you and i! ... God manifests Himself how He wants, when He wants, and if He wants, and if our faith in what He did for us on Calvary requires that He personally sends Gabriel to us, or that we see our own physical burning bush, in order to continue our walk/belief in Him, then nine times out of ten i'd say you're about to go sit on the side of the road ...This is how i allow Holy Spirit to keep me grounded in the faith, and not seek after Him for a sign, and believe me there are times when i have in the past, and want to do so even still in the present regarding the vision(s) and dream(s) i believe He's given me toward what His ultimate purpose is for my life ... So when i get antsy i keep in mind ...2Cor.4:18"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal".And i wear around my neck ...Heb.11:1"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".i believe that if and when it please God to reappear in the miraculous He will do so, and that nothing in heaven or earth can stop Him ... i also believe that if we'd collectively get on our faces in true repentance, crying out and weeping our remorse and our deep desire to meet Him in the Holy of Holies we'd open ourselves up to His miraculous anew, but at the rate we're going we don't have to worry about that happening ... We're an instant access generation, who if it requires any excertion from us at all would rather quit before we even begin ... We want everything handed to us on a silver platter ... That's why the scripture says ...Heb.11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".Notice it says "believe that He is", and in our dispensation apparently, thus far, it means without any kind of certifiable "signs and wonders" ... But who knows, if we'd get ourselves into His definition of "proper diligence" scripture also states ...1Cor.2:9 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him"i'm learning to leave what God wants to do, how He wants to do and what and when He wants to do up to God, while i do what it is that i'm equipped and capable to do by His grace (His ability) and that's to believe that He is whether i ever see anything that i might define as a sign ... I guess as i'm getting older His grace ever becomes even more than just sufficient ... And our God is still doing very big things today ... He's ever advancing toward His Kingdom come using the likes of us ... That's pretty big! ... Amen

And our God is still doing very big things today ... He's ever advancing toward His Kingdom come using the likes of us ... That's pretty big! ... AmenHallelujah!James

While I do understand the nature of the term "we" to not be all-inclusive, that was the point behind the chocolate comment. Not everybody in this country is fat and lazy. There are many, many American missionaries, and we still are the #1 provider fiscally to overseas projects. Loren Cunningham's brainchildren (Mercy Ships and Youth With A Mission) are out there. I myself have met quite a few long-haul missionaries... the majority of which are American.Ok this is true, but we must figure out what the spirit behind all this is. I mean you can send every missionary you have out to every place in earth but if they do not go in the Holy spirit, it does nothing. and again we can spend all the money we have on whatever but if it is not done under instruction of the Holy Spirit, again it is fruitless.

IRONMAN, True enough. That being said, the crew I have run with invested in their work mightily, and I believe the Spirit is backing most of them up.We have opened our eyes but to see. Just like biting into that apple, it had unintended consequences. Will we forget the beauty in the midst of it all?

IRONMAN, True enough. That being said, the crew I have run with invested in their work mightily, and I believe the Spirit is backing most of them up.Most of them? it should be all or nothing. I would be weary of those whose inspiration for all this is questionable.

Hi Rahman,This is just me folks ...8-) More and more this keeps coming back:Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Back to The mystery of it all.

So often I hear about how we are sending missionaries overseas (from America), and how great the number we send out, and the great quantity of dollars we send out on top of it. Sometimes there seems to be some sort of disdain for American missions it seems, and a lot seems to be made of foreign missionaries who come to America to plant a church. Yet, of the foreign missionaries coming to America to plant a church, I wonder how come it is that we don't really seem to hear (at least I don't) of these men being very succesful, supposidly from people who have a stronger faith than what is seen in America (at least, that's how I interpret the painting we often make of Christians from 3rd world countries and the like).... just some thoughts.

Most of them? it should be all or nothing. I would be weary of those whose inspiration for all this is questionable.I'm not going to say I'm perfect, and I'm not going to say that every missionary I've met has gone with God's heart into country. Some of them followed their spouse. Putting these two together comes up with something I can't guarantee 100%. If you're looking to attack something, IRONMAN, I can't stop you. I can just tell you what I've seen, and I can tell you what I've fealt and what the Spirit has told me.All of my experience has boiled down to this point: do my best to find out what the Spirit is doing, and cooperate with Him. If I do this, I might just be successful, and God may just be given a little more opportunity. I cannot fight what is not mine to fight, but I can join with that which the Spirit has enabled and has enabled me to join.

If you're looking to attack something, IRONMAN, I can't stop you. I can just tell you what I've seen, and I can tell you what I've fealt and what the Spirit has told me.See what I am against and what we should all be against is any "work" that is not born of the spirit and that includes anything I may come up with or anyone else for that matter. The lord desires us to worship and serve in spirit and in truth and we should do so in earnest. As far as perfection goes Christ said that we should be perfect like God is perfect. This perfection does not come from within but is a component of our relationship with Christ. It is the spirit that brings this perfection and by letting the spirit work as God would have it work without hinderance, then the perfection which Christ speaks of (which is if God) shines through. All of my experience has boiled down to this point: do my best to find out what the Spirit is doing, and cooperate with Him. If I do this, I might just be successful, and God may just be given a little more opportunity. I cannot fight what is not mine to fight, but I can join with that which the Spirit has enabled and has enabled me to join.See this is what I am talking about, seeking after the instruction of the spirit in earnest. that should be the focus. You have it there and that is what we should all be doing incessantly. Really Christianity should be a much more radical faith, think about this, Christ says that He is the way, the truth and the life. What does that say about anything else?

PTywama3That last post from Jimm was from me actually.

I can attest personally to both ends of the spectrum when it comes to forien nationals in America. Some come to the states with a mandate from God and some come only to get monies for thier poor churches back home.Where I've seen some come here for extended periods of time it seems to me that when they get here they are full of power and vision. But as a leakey vessel that seems to run out.And while we do send alot of missionaries overseas and send alot of monies abroad , its our personal lives as christians,the way we run our churches and conduct our ethic that they dislike.They need our money but don't want our worldiness and lukewarmness, thats a first hand quote.I introduce many of these forien nationals to various churches because of my evangelistic contact with the churches.Since I am not a pastor of a church that they are speaking at when they go to share what God is doing in hopes for gaining support for thier churches abroad , I'm privy to much of what's really on thier hearts , in the same way one person confides in a friend but doesnt confide in an aquaintance.

Brother Mike, Our Lord is just getting better and better to me everyday ... it's like i'm experiencing some type of break thru and so many spiritual things seem so much clearer to me now ...In His love,R

Maybe i'm wrong, but the way i see it is that we The Church would fare much, much better (and i think the OT backs this up) if the complacent amongst our number were the remnant instead of vice-versa ... It seems to me that when the leadership of Israel was totally asleep at the wheel and the majority of the Israelite people had become dozing passengers along for the ride, even tho the faithful remnant had been locked in the nations trunk, it didn't stop all from experiencing the crash ... For me personally if the great majority of the Church was walking in the joyous admonition of our Lord then i'm joyous ... But on the other hand if the great majority is walking in apostacy, or even just half stepping to the grief of God, then no matter how well i might be doing in Him, or the faithful remnant, i'm as sad as Jeremiah about it ... We're all parts of Christ Body, we're all connected, and if there's any sickness, even if one thinks that sickness is not being caused by us individually, or our own particular church (congregation) in The Church, we're still ALL affected by it ... That's why i believe we've ALL got to get on our faces, and weep and pray, and then pray some more, and we've got to be completly open, surrendered and vulnerable to Holy Spirit if in fact He wants to use us as His megaphones to speaking out His prescription of "repentance" before our continued binging on sin winds us ALL up in God's Pottery Barn and the dashing of the old pot, it's regrinding and remixing with a fresh rewatering of Holy Spirit, to be remade into a new vessel of mercy pleasing to the Master Potter ... Unfortunately to me personally the great majority of the Body of Christ don't realize that we're at the brink of God's reworking of our broken pot ... And like the church of Laodicea most of us think that we're doing pretty well ... By human standards yes ... By God's standards NO!!! ... i think today's Church, like Israel of old, won't sit up and take notice until the total disruption of our habitual everyday lives ...

You know bro Rahman concerning the state of the church and how well we think we are doing you're on point. I think we have gotten comfortable with the status quo and as a result we have a tendancy to embrace any new working of the spirit, or any working of the spirit at all in some cases. We settle for mediocracy when we should be stopping nothing short of excellence. For the saints that will have to prophecy to the world, therein lies the difficulty. People being so content with things as they are to want to get involved in the new things that God will be doing. God thus far has been so misrepresented that many are lost and don't even know it. Many don't know that God wishes us to worship and serve in spirit and in truth and going to church once a week or reading your bible every day is not enough. One could know the bible back and forth and up and down and still miss it (like the pharisees). The spirit is where it's all at. I may have gone off on a tangent here but that is what God has been placing heavily on me, that we should all be seeking Him in spirit.